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VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?" Parental alienation is when a parent allows a child to participate or hear them degrade the other parent. This is not uncommon in divorces and the children often adjust. In severe cases, however, it can be devastating to the child. This video provides a helpful overview.
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Author Topic: Sudden mid-life onset of major symptoms?  (Read 609 times)
San Diego

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Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
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« on: April 24, 2018, 10:05:30 AM »

I am struggling to understand my soon-to-be ex-wife's BPD traits. Relatively stable and happy marriage for fifteen years with the main symptoms being some splitting that was easy to explain away, paranoid ideation in times of stress (e.g., pre-menstrual, weaning, financial hardship, normal conflict resolution with work/friends/family), some dissociation, neediness of admiration and reassurance, and some emotional reasoning. She did have bouts with depression post-partum/weaning. And I often felt like I couldn't quite make her happy (and that this was my job, yeah, I know). But in general, a truly wonderful spouse. I was incredibly happy with her and she was a delightful person—very respected by all who know her. I was crazy about her and felt passionately in love after many years of marriage. She often told me she felt the same.

Then sudden BPD-like behavior in her late 30s after weaning our last child, reporting some depression, and telling me she felt convinced that she would lose me (death, I presumed at the time). Then major changes in behavior and interests, emotionally abandoning me for a new (female) friend she spent every possible moment with, excessive alcohol, swings of aggression and elation with sadness between, hearing an angry voice, saying she was worried about feeling so angry she wanted to hurt someone, fears about being a good person, sexual guilt, and suicidal thoughts. Then a dramatic split following a humble expression of ordinary regrets on my part, escalating accusations of abuse and (successful) attempts to convince me that I suffered from severe mental illness(es), egregiously unreasonable legal actions, persistently hurtful and demanding language, many control moves, isolation from all but a few people, and total silent treatment of me.

I feel like this was in fact a personality I saw in her from the day I first met her, just from time to time in periods of stress, but that never fully emerged ... .until suddenly. I feel like I need to understand what happened. This is so confusing. She accused others of abuse as well and split with old friends. I'm not the only one who is this confused. Everything I read about BPD says it starts in adolescence or early adulthood, and yes, I saw symptoms, but how could she have been such an incredibly beautiful human being for so long?

This is a person who very rarely if ever made a mistake or failed to make life beautiful for people around her. When I say she was "perfect," people think my praise of her is codependency speaking, and I don't deny feeling a lot of responsibility for her. And yes, I was wearing the glasses of someone who's in love for our whole marriage, and she wasn't perfect, and in a lot of ways I felt like I never had the kind of open emotional intimacy that I have in my other friendships. Not healthy, for sure. However, I have gone around this every way I can, and behaviorally, truly she was just an amazing woman. High moral character, adored by her friends, considerate, gorgeous, giving, funny, and sweet. I often pinched myself! Anyone have a similar experience?
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Lucky Jim
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« Reply #1 on: April 24, 2018, 02:40:55 PM »

Hey San Diego, I'm sorry to hear what you are going through.  For how long has your marriage been in trouble?  Are you currently separated and/or going through a divorce?

Yes, I think it's possible for BPD symptoms to become more acute over time, which is what happened in my marriage.  Can you point to any particular turning point?  It seems like there may have been some red flags  Red flag/bad  (click to insert in post) that you were willing to overlook, until the time came when they could no longer be ignored?

  Fill us in, when you can.

LuckyJim
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    A life spent making mistakes is not only more honorable, but more useful than a life spent doing nothing.
George Bernard Shaw
San Diego

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« Reply #2 on: April 25, 2018, 03:21:57 PM »

Thank you for the reply, Lucky Jim. We have been legally separated nine months and are now going through a divorce. I think I first noticed changes up to and after the presidential election. Then things rapidly accelerated with her premonition that she would lose me (about a year ago now). That's when she immediately began clinging to her new friend. Before that, everything was fairly stable.

In the months just prior to her split there were lots of red flags, but over the years more yellow flags than red.

I am trying to understand what has happened so I know how to handle everything responsibly, as we have children together. We are not in communication, so I'm left trying to put the puzzle together myself from clues I remember.
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NGU
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Relationship status: Together since 2011. Married since 2013.
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« Reply #3 on: April 25, 2018, 05:47:55 PM »

I am trying to understand what has happened so I know how to handle everything responsibly, as we have children together. We are not in communication, so I'm left trying to put the puzzle together myself from clues I remember.

Hi San Diego.

It sounds like you're going to need to know what happened for two reasons. One, for closure. Two, to communicate with her enough so you can continue raising your children.

Being here and reading more information will help with the clues that you'll need to gather for the puzzle, and it will also help with how to communicate with your soon-to-be ex.

For closure, please be prepared to (possibly) wait a long time for enough answers; way longer than you'd like. I know how difficult this must be for you right now, since so much of this makes little sense. The way I've felt in these times is that there's an unwelcome motivation, almost an unrelenting drive, to figure it out. Thankfully, that mental pressure slowly goes away, even if a few nagging questions remain.   

I'm not sure if this will help you at all, but you're not alone in confronting situations like the one you describe. I've seen drastic, shocking, frightening mood shifts in two significant others. And I'm not talking about my current wife with BPD. One S.O. was a fairly calm girlfriend I had known long enough to move in with. She simply leaned against her desk chair one day while we were talking and blew a gasket. An explosion. I've blocked some it out, but there was enough anguish, sadness, rage, crying, threats and screaming that I moved out within a couple days and went no-contact. I never figured out what happened.

The time I've spent here, and the other members' threads that I've posted in, has actually helped me get a better understanding of human behavior, so that a lot of those past/nagging questions have been fading a bit. I guess I didn't need a concrete answer to all of them. Instead, it was simply me getting introduced to a collective knowledge to a point where strong, logical theories were enough.

-ngu   

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San Diego

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« Reply #4 on: April 25, 2018, 06:48:46 PM »

That's a terrific reply, NGU, and the advice helps a lot. I guess when it comes to making decisions, I just need a sufficient mental model for practical use in predicting how she might go about things in a different way. That doesn't require a diagnosis necessarily. When it comes to closure, I will need to be patient, observant, and curious.

Part of the pressure for me is how worried I am for her. Another pressure is that from her point of view, those of us she split with are the reason for all her challenges—chiefly me. She was very convincing (I was totally convinced that I must have problems so deep that I was somehow incapable of comprehending my own actions that hurt her, which reinforced that message with her and others). This has alienated a lot of people and our family is shattered, so my decisions right now matter a lot. On the emotional side, hurting another person is my worst nightmare, and this insinuation haunts me constantly.

I would like to understand what factors can contribute to these symptoms other than childhood abuse—which I am fairly certain she did not suffer.

The major triggers definitely seemed to be feeling isolated from her peers (politically/socially) and fearing that she would lose me. Fear of being left alone is BPD territory, but I just can't account for what would be the source of her fear.

I understand that chronic PTSD can be similar, but again, she did not go through what would be considered traumatic to most people (ordinary lower-middle-class hard, but not traumatic), unless it was private trauma in her own mental experience.

She has exhibited some obsessive compulsive traits, and OCD runs in the family, manifesting sometimes as paranoid ideation about being controlled. She has always felt attuned to criticism and doesn't easily let go of that anger and hurt. However, when I read about OCD-BPD connections, the literature mentions OCD arising from BPD/PTSD, not the other way around. If the "root fear" of a person with OCD was being separated from love or being alone, could that manifest as BPD symptoms if the anxiety becomes especially intense? The literature seems scant.
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strong9
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« Reply #5 on: April 26, 2018, 12:28:33 AM »

San Diego, sorry you are going through this. I want to make sure you are taking care of yourself. Like you, I thought my ex the "perfect" woman for a major portion of my marriage. It was hard to rid myself of that image after things went bad abruptly. One thing I've learned is that all was not perfect, it was masked well.

My point is, don't let any lingering feelings of perfection (whether for her sake or to protect your memories of what you thought you had for all those years) or your concern for her take priority over caring for yourself and your kids during this difficult time. I know from first hand experience that those types of feelings can manifest as blaming oneself and/or trying to avoid anything that could potentially inflict pain on her. And while reflecting on your own mistakes is good, it always takes two. Don't let the feelings you describe below turn you into a martyr. Don't fall on your sword to spare her, whether with the family or otherwise.
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San Diego

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« Reply #6 on: April 26, 2018, 01:54:35 PM »

Thank you for the voice of experience, Strong. When I reflect on what you wrote I am aware of wanting to protect her from her pain, fears, unhappiness, disappointment, health risks, broken relationships, the criticism of others, separation from her children, financial hardship, spiritual hardship, and any other consequences of her actions. I'm also aware of grieving the loss of what I/she/we had—because in some ways we enjoyed a very blessed life together. I'm aware of feeling dismay at being unable to help her. I'm aware that all my life I have acutely felt the pain of others, and the responsibility for alleviating it.

This is all exacerbated by the sense that she is almost perfect (a view we both shared and I am now forced to confront) and that I am far from perfect (a view she feared but came around to and that I am learning to think about in a more healthy way). This is certainly too reductive as a whole explanation, but I am aware of how desperately she felt she had to live a perfect life and be a good person and depended on others to alleviate her fears about that. In contrast, I am aware of how desperately ashamed I felt that I would never lead a perfect life or be a good person, and how I coped with that fear by making vain but heroic efforts to create a perfect life for the perfect woman.

I can be your hero baby.
I can kiss away the pain.
I will stand by you forever.
You can take my breath away.
(Enrique Iglesias - Hero)

I don’t know if there are diagnostic labels to attach to any of this, and maybe that doesn’t matter. Lots to think about. Any reflections, anyone?
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strong9
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« Reply #7 on: April 29, 2018, 12:55:54 AM »

Thank you for the voice of experience, Strong. When I reflect on what you wrote I am aware of wanting to protect her from her pain, fears, unhappiness, disappointment, health risks, broken relationships, the criticism of others, separation from her children, financial hardship, spiritual hardship, and any other consequences of her actions. I'm also aware of grieving the loss of what I/she/we had—because in some ways we enjoyed a very blessed life together. I'm aware of feeling dismay at being unable to help her. I'm aware that all my life I have acutely felt the pain of others, and the responsibility for alleviating it.

This is all exacerbated by the sense that she is almost perfect (a view we both shared and I am now forced to confront) and that I am far from perfect (a view she feared but came around to and that I am learning to think about in a more healthy way). This is certainly too reductive as a whole explanation, but I am aware of how desperately she felt she had to live a perfect life and be a good person and depended on others to alleviate her fears about that. In contrast, I am aware of how desperately ashamed I felt that I would never lead a perfect life or be a good person, and how I coped with that fear by making vain but heroic efforts to create a perfect life for the perfect woman.

I can be your hero baby.
I can kiss away the pain.
I will stand by you forever.
You can take my breath away.
(Enrique Iglesias - Hero)

I don’t know if there are diagnostic labels to attach to any of this, and maybe that doesn’t matter. Lots to think about. Any reflections, anyone?

I am struck by the irony of something that applies to both of us.  We viewed our respective wives as perfect.  Yet we failed to see (or chose not to see) how their perfection was itself imperfect in that they not only had to strive for perfection (instead of "being" perfect), but depended on others to validate their perfection.  And now you are doing (and I did) everything to protect the perfect person (shouldn't a perfect person be perfect in all respects, including protecting themselves).  So I wonder if you are really trying to protect her as the human you shared your life with, or as your fallen angel.  Because if the fallen angel is indeed fallible, then the altar at which you were worshipping was false.  And where are you, the imperfect man, if you cannot or never did come in contact with perfection.  Apologies if I am assuming too much or taking liberties with what you've shared... .   
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San Diego

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« Reply #8 on: April 29, 2018, 07:43:32 PM »

Strong, I can certainly identify with that self-evident fallacy. Penitent worship gave purpose to my shameful existence. My whole reason for being was tied up in our shared fantasy, and my breathless pursuit of that retreating apparition has been a road to perdition.

Another irony is that I would have forgiven her anything. If she had told me she had been serially unfaithful, I would have been deeply hurt, and rebuilding trust would have been hard, but I would have minimized her offenses and forgiven her.

In contrast, she rejected me for voicing ordinary regrets from days gone by, then exaggerated my offenses so persuasively that I eventually believed I was five kinds of abusive and so severely disordered I couldn’t trust my own mind. I have to guess that she realized I had failed her and would never be up to the job, and needed to justify being less forgiving than even the divine God.

I know I’m not going to be able to stand up for what I don’t believe in. Somehow I need to come to believe that I am worthy of respect. Was this part of your journey, and if so, what helped you?
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strong9
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« Reply #9 on: May 02, 2018, 01:43:04 AM »

Strong, I can certainly identify with that self-evident fallacy. Penitent worship gave purpose to my shameful existence. My whole reason for being was tied up in our shared fantasy, and my breathless pursuit of that retreating apparition has been a road to perdition.

Another irony is that I would have forgiven her anything. If she had told me she had been serially unfaithful, I would have been deeply hurt, and rebuilding trust would have been hard, but I would have minimized her offenses and forgiven her.

In contrast, she rejected me for voicing ordinary regrets from days gone by, then exaggerated my offenses so persuasively that I eventually believed I was five kinds of abusive and so severely disordered I couldn’t trust my own mind. I have to guess that she realized I had failed her and would never be up to the job, and needed to justify being less forgiving than even the divine God.

I know I’m not going to be able to stand up for what I don’t believe in. Somehow I need to come to believe that I am worthy of respect. Was this part of your journey, and if so, what helped you?

That's complicated but in a nutshell I got angry and I got competitive.  The only thing I loved more than her was our kids. And they are still number 1 to me.

So I forced myself to get angry at her. I treated her like the opponent in a winner take all sporting match. I viewed her only as the mother who abandoned my kids. I took note of everything she was missing in their lives and allowed every tear my kids shed to wash over me. I would read the sad texts they sent their mom to remind myself of what she did to them.

When that kicked in, those feelings that I had for her, like your feelings for your ex, were drowned out. Having said that, I kept this to myself. On the surface I was my usual self and never disrespectful to her and supportive of her as a mother. This was only a tool for my inner battles.

I also came here alot. Just reading others' stories felt empowering because I was not alone and I wasn't some chump. It happened to the best of us.  Even your story makes me feel better about myself because I have been there and come out the other side. I hope this has the same effect on you because you will too.

Only after she gave up in divorce court did I let my guard down.

Finally, for the sake of full disclosure she decided to live half way across the world. Easier to move on when someone is out of sight.

I hope you find something from my experience that helps you. I don't believe in anger. As my kids will tell you, I am a pushover who doesn't even shout. But I did use anger to my advantage.

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San Diego

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« Reply #10 on: May 02, 2018, 09:58:27 AM »

Strong, what I hear in this is that you felt something like righteous anger. The will to win for the right reasons. I feel peace in that. I want that.

Like you, I’m fortunate not to have an anger problem, at least not in the traditional sense. But failing to get angry when I should is clearly a problem right now.

For me, anger shows up and says “hey, something precious to you is being violated, and I’m here to help.” I’ve been angry with myself, others, even God—but seldom with her. I’ve been standing up for her, rather than for me or for my kids because I value her more. I need a change in perspective.

Intellectually, I know better now. But prioritizing her emotional needs (and those of my mom before that) has been my identity. It’s ingrained.

I tend to feel that the wrongs of others are essentially mistakes because they didn’t know better. (I use the reverse logic on myself, but that’s another story.) Then I presume they deserve mercy. Of course, mercy by definition is never deserved—it is freely given. And there is a fine line between mercy and perversion of justice. That’s the line I dare not cross. I can’t be party to sacrificing my children on that altar you mentioned.

I do believe that my heart is going to be with my treasure, whatever that may be. So what do I treasure? I can’t treasure who she is showing herself to be, or the woman I imagined she was. But I do have a lot to treasure. It helps me to hear you say “I viewed her only as ... .” I think this is my answer. I need to choose my view. Focus on what is precious and how she is violating those things.

Being on these boards has already helped me a lot. Thanks for being here and sharing.

You mention that you were yourself—not disrespectful and supportive of her as a mother. Something I'm wondering about is how to show respectful and peaceable intent when dealing with a person who does not want peace? How do I demonstrate those values and intentions? My skills are peace-time skills (and not all healthy ones).
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