He is threatening suicide and I don't know what to do

[Catlady3.14]

So this morning after days of not talking I get a message that he loves me and hates himself so much.
He has cheated, of course this was a "setup" according to him. It was someone else's doing somehow. I am so hurt.
In most honesty, he was probably high. He has substance abuse problems. And he was more than excited to have the intimacy even though I have tried to be intimate with him often and he never allows it.
He is threatening suicide and I don't know what to do!

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[Harri]

Hi Catlady.  Can you update the situation?  I see you posted this earlier today so I am wondering if anything has changed.

Is your husband with you or is he somewhere else?  Forgive me, I do not remember, but has he threatened suicide before?  You mentioned drugs.  Do you know if he is still high?

[Harley Quinn]

Hi Catlady,

I'm sorry to hear what you're going through.  That is very anxiety provoking for you.  I hope that you can post again and let us know what is happening and how you are both doing.

We have a document here, which is at the bottom of every page, called SAFETY FIRST.  You will find information and guidance on how to handle suicidal ideation in others and it would be good to read and digest this when you can, so that you are prepared should you have another situation like this.  I'm afraid that once he has made a threat like this there's a likelihood it won't be the last time.  The key thing is to encourage him to get help.

Here's an excerpt from the document which gives us tips on how to help someone who is feeling suicidal:

1.Take it seriously.

Myth: “The people who talk about it don't do it.” Studies have found that more than 75% of all completed suicides did things in the few weeks or months prior to their deaths to indicate to others that they were in deep despair. Anyone expressing suicidal feelings needs immediate attention.

2.Remember: suicidal behavior is a cry for help.

Myth: “If a someone is going to kill himself, nothing can stop him.” The fact that a person is still alive is sufficient proof that part of him wants to remain alive. The suicidal person is ambivalent - part of him wants to live and part of him wants not so much death as he wants the pain to end. It is the part that wants to live that tells another “I feel suicidal.” If a suicidal person turns to you it is likely that he believes that you are more caring, more informed about coping with misfortune, and more willing to protect his confidentiality. No matter how negative the manner and content of his talk, he is doing a positive thing and has a positive view of you.

3.Be willing to give and get help sooner rather than later.

Suicide prevention is not a last minute activity. All textbooks on depression say it should be reached as soon as possible. Unfortunately, suicidal people are afraid that trying to get help may bring them more pain: being told they are stupid, foolish, sinful, or manipulative; rejection; punishment; suspension from school or job; written records of their condition; or involuntary commitment. You need to do everything you can to reduce pain, rather than increase or prolong it. Constructively involving yourself on the side of life as early as possible will reduce the risk of suicide.

4.Listen.

Give the person every opportunity to unburden his troubles and ventilate his feelings. You don't need to say much and there are no magic words. If you are concerned, your voice and manner will show it. Give him relief from being alone with his pain; let him know you are glad he turned to you. Patience, sympathy, acceptance. Avoid arguments and advice giving.

5.ASK: “Are you having thoughts of suicide?”

Myth: “Talking about it may give someone the idea.” People already have the idea; suicide is constantly in the news media. If you ask a despairing person this question you are doing a good thing for them: you are showing him that you care about him, that you take him seriously, and that you are willing to let him share his pain with you. You are giving him further opportunity to discharge pent up and painful feelings. If the person is having thoughts of suicide, find out how far along his ideation has progressed.

6.If the person is acutely suicidal, do not leave him alone.

If the person is acutely suicidal, do not leave them alone - drive the person to the nearest emergency department or other service facility. They may be hesitant - that is normal. The local suicide hotlines can advise you of the best facility.

If the situation is life threatening, or the person refuses to go for care, or you are unable to transport them, call 911.

Please do not use emergency medical services to teach anyone a lesson.

If the means to commit suicide are present, try to get rid of them.

7.Urge professional help.

If someone is acting suicidal or talking of suicide, it is vitally important to get them into professional care at the first signs. Like many disorders, early detection and treatment yields better outcomes. Persistence and patience may be needed to seek, engage and continue with as many options as possible. In any referral situation, let the person know you care and want to maintain contact.

  
Try to remain calm Catlady.  I know it is very upsetting to hear your husband speak this way.  Thoughts of suicide are a part of his illness.  :)oes he have treatment?  Will he call a hotline or attend the emergency room to see a crisis team?

Love and light x

[Radcliff]

Hi Catlady,

I am sorry that you are experiencing such a stressful situation.  I know that you don't want any harm to come to your husband, and suicide threats from a loved one can make us feel so helpless and scared.

When you have a moment, give us an update on how things are going now, and whether everyone is safe.  Then, could you give us a detailed description of what was happening when he made the threats, and what exactly he said?  Understanding the details is the first step in figuring out the best plan of action.

WW

[Catlady3.14]

He hasn't spoke to me in days then this morning at 7.
 he sent me a message saying that he had cheated and he loves me and he is sorry. he hates himself. He says he was setup. Not sure what that means.
I didn't get the message until shortly before I posted on here first.
I send him a message back but he has not responded
I'm really unsure where he is staying right now but believe him to be with a friend.
I have Wi-Fi but no phone service at the moment. So I can't call him and I have no car.

[Catlady3.14]

He refuses treatment. And he has been struggling with drugs. Sober for sometime then he would relapse every four to six months.

[Catlady3.14]

His message went like this:
I have a gun and bullet and I'm think of using it.
No time to talk. Give the baby the biggest hug and kiss for me.

[Harri]

Hi Catlady.   Does your husband usually have access to a gun or do you think the gun belongs to a friend?

What are you doing to take care of you?  How are the kids?

[Radcliff]

His message went like this:
I have a gun and bullet and I'm think of using it.
No time to talk. Give the baby the biggest hug and kiss for me.

Catlady, I am so sorry you had to be on the receiving end of that message.  It is graphic, including a specific threat.  It makes you worry for the father of your baby.  And "No time to talk" raises the urgency and pulls away from you, likely making you feel more helpless.

Does he own a gun that you know of?  If not, does he have access to a gun through a relative or a friend?

It may not be possible to tell the difference between a genuine expression of suicidal intent and a manipulation.  In fact, a situation might be between those two extremes -- someone authentically upset, but communicating in a way to have maximum impact on you.

If this were someone threatening to hurt themselves with pills, who had never intimidated you, choosing a course of action would be easy -- call the police.  From out here on the Internet, I cannot see the details of your situation.  A pwBPD is going to be upset at police involvement.  He has exhibited controlling behaviors like taking your wallet, money, and car keys, and isolating you by causing you to lose your job.  These are red flags for domestic violence.

The best thing for you to do right now is call the National Domestic Violence Hotline at (800) 799-7233.  You might say, "Hey, he hasn't hit me, this isn't domestic violence," but they have experience in dealing with an entire range of situations like this.  Later, when things settle down, I can point you to some resources on their site that describe some of what you've been experiencing.  They can guide you along the safest course of action for both of you, and direct you to local resources.  Plus, hearing a "real" human voice supporting you is tremendously powerful.  Please call, and tell us how it goes.

WW

[Harri]

Hi Catlady.  I think Wentworth's suggestion to call the National Domestic Violence Hotline is excellent. 

If you are not able to get through to them via cell, you can always go to their website and on every page there is a Chat Now button  in red.  Their web address is thehotline.org

Please call or go to the site and chat with someone.  They are more familiar with local resources than we are and can be another great source of support for you.

[Catlady3.14]

Thank you for the web address.
I still haven't heard from him, he has access to a friend's gun.
However his friend is usually a support for him. I think he would have contacted me or his family if something were to have happened now.
There have been many,many,many suicide threats.
I think that it is a combination of the two, real intent and manipulation.
I just wish he would just respond.

[Radcliff]

Catlady,

I'm sorry to hear that suicide threats are a common thing for you.  That is a terrible burden for you to bear.

What are your thoughts about calling the hotline?

WW

[Harley Quinn]

There have been many,many,many suicide threats.

Hi Catlady,

Can you describe how you normally react to these?  What does a typical situation involve and has he ever made attempts on his life or is it verbal threats so far?  It's possible that he is not responding as a way to cause you alarm.  Have you spoken to the friend?  If you believe he has a gun and is prepared to take his life, how would you feel about calling the police?

My exBPDbf also made many suicide threats and multiple attempts on his life.  He would disappear and turn off his phone.  I know just how much this can fry your nerves.  You will be all too aware how this is affecting you.  What support do you have for yourself in coping with this? 

As well as the suicide helplines available there is a text number that can be used in a crisis, so if your husband refuses to speak to someone, perhaps he'd feel more comfortable sending a text.  You just text HELLO to 741741.  Maybe when you next speak to him or get hold of the friend you could suggest he put this into his phone.

Let us know of any developments Catlady.  We're here for you. 

Love and light x

[Catlady3.14]

he is alright!
previously, He has self harmed and went as far as buying rope and things to end his life.
He usually leaves then gets to a place he feels no one can stop him and tells me he is going to.
Sometimes it is verbally in front of me but then he rages on.
He feels like he has no reason to live and that he is a piece of crap and hates himself.
He has never hurt me.
There have been mutual fights. But never outright physical abuse. A few time I have been scared that it may go thatbway. But it never has, as I said it was usually mutual fighting.

My reactions have varied. But I always try and talk him down.

I've begged him to come home and that I love him.

I have not over reacted to the threats and just listened to him when I'm person. He usually calms down and then feels guilt.

This time. I told him I would like to talk to him in person about the cheating. Because I don't fully understand the situation and that I love him and I hope he is okay that both of us are responsible for faults in our relationship and I want to be together and try to be happy.

He has made threats while in a paranoid drug state. holding a  hunting knife to his heart ready to plunge. I have sat for hours upon hours trying to talk him through the delusions. Not telling him how obviously wrong his thinking is but trying to get him to explain it to me and question him in a way that makes him question and come to realization that what he feels is happening is not real.

[Catlady3.14]

He will have Nothing to do with a hotline.
though I will tell him about it when the opportunity presents itself.
He is very distrustful of police and I think if police were called he would do it with quickness because he is terrified of going to jail and being locked up. He has anxiety about being trapped and I doubt this would help him in anyway, only push him to it.

I am open to contacting a hotline myself to be more prepared for this situation.
As many times as we have been through this I am still not very prepared or braces for it.

[Turkish]

 Catlady,

We will support you but you need local help beyond what we can do here, no matter how much we care and are concerned fur your family.  The calls are anonymous.  I had someone close to me call one and she said that they were very helpful.  Can you make a call and let us know?

Staff has tried out the text line that HQ posted above and found out to be responsive.

[Catlady3.14]

 He is no longer making the threat of suicide.


Thank you everyone for your concern and kindness.

[Radcliff]

Catlady,

I'm glad to hear that the situation is safe for now.  We have been talking about two kinds of hotlines -- suicide prevention hotlines, and domestic violence hotlines.  We can make our best progress in improving things during calm times.  I would suggest that you call the National Domestic Violence Hotline at (800) 799-7233, or chat with them at www.thehotline.org in the next couple of days. so you can describe the various parts of the situation (taking money from you, taking transportation, threatening to commit suicide) and they can help you think through constructive steps you can take.  At the end of the day, you're going to be the decider on any action that you take -- talking to them is simply an important step in breaking your isolation.  How do you feel about giving them a call?

WW

[Harley Quinn]

Catlady, there seem to be a lot of similarities in our situations regards the attitudes and behaviours demonstrated by our partners in times of crisis.  Confinement and mistrust of police were also a massive issue with my ex.  I really feel for you.  How does he feel towards hospital staff?  Perhaps he sees them as more caring?  

It's great that you're thinking ahead and wanting to prepare yourself in advance of the next episode.  Contacting the number sounds like a good plan.  My question I came to ask was 'now that the dust has settled, what next?'  In other words, when things calm down following a crisis, how do things normally go between you?  Is it brushed under the carpet, do you talk over what happened, make plans for how to deal with resurfacing thoughts on his part?  I know you said you wanted to speak with him about his cheating.  That must be a very painful prospect for you.  :)o let us know how things go and how you're doing.    

Love and light x

[Catlady3.14]

Harley Quinn,
Now that the dust has settled it is very scary because without me being totally accepting of his threats and his cheating. ( which he now says is not actual "cheating" he will lose it again and completely shut me off. I try to stand my ground and question him, kindly mind you. Very carefully question him without accusing or getting upset or saying that his actions were wrong. Quote difficult to do!

Typically with drug use and suicide threat he says he doesn't want to do it anymore and so if he does, it is shifted to blame me for his actions.

I don't know how to bring up rehab or a care facility. He says I am pushing Him or giving him an ultimatum.

[Harley Quinn]

Now that the dust has settled it is very scary because without me being totally accepting of his threats and his cheating... .he will lose it again and completely shut me off.

It sounds like you are truly walking on eggshells and that's an awful situation to be in.  I know you're reading up and learning tools right now, so I wanted to speak big picture to you for a moment.  Without a change it's likely that this cycle of behaviour will continue and I'm afraid that change is going to have to be led by you.  Here is an excerpt from an article which I feel speaks volumes and certainly did to me when I was in my r/s:

Structure  - A Necessary Relationship Dynamic

The borderline individual's chance at recovery from their desolate and chaotic state, unfortunately, only occurs in extraordinary circumstances. Recovery requires frequent contact with a person who can simultaneously demonstrate, with unwavering certainty, that they care very deeply for the borderline and that they will not tolerate interference with their own boundaries. Such a person must possess supreme confidence in their own personality. They must be able to manage every kind of attack or manipulation with kindness and understanding, and yet never give in. Giving in to the borderline's merger fantasy, or accepting their withdrawal, rage, or blame, results in the borderline believing they are in control. True recognition of the borderline's independence cannot thus occur and the borderline can never achieve a feeling that they are truly independent.

In the end, only the recognition of their true self, given from a truly independent yet loving other, can permit the borderline to build within themselves the confidence they need to truly be independent. In the end, only the recognition that no one has control in relationships, and that everyone must control themselves, a recognition that is made possible only by becoming truly independent, can save the borderline from never-ending sorrow within relationships, and can finally make the borderline feel whole by themselves and capable of living full and integrated lives within relationships and among others.

The above is taken from this article: Why We Struggle in Our Relationships

I'd encourage you to keep reading the tools and learning all you can before you attempt any conversation around him entering into treatment.  However, it is important that you begin to consider which of your boundaries you are not maintaining in the r/s and how you can begin to affect that.  For example, I allowed myself to give up all of my self care activities including the gym because of my partner's jealousy and I became totally isolated.  Having these things in my life was a value to me that I sacrificed and had a big impact upon me.  You've already started to make progress here by building your own interests outside of the r/s and I'd encourage you to stay firm in your resolve to do these things for yourself.    

I've now read back through all of your posts and feel I have a good overview of your situation.  So much of it is very familiar to me and my heart goes out to you Catlady.  I'm also really thrilled that you are in therapy and taking steps to widen your circle outside of the home.  Finding ways to connect with others is going to really benefit you and the library volunteering idea is a great move.  

For a moment I'd like to focus on your well being.  How is your anxiety level right now and do you see a doctor around your own condition?  I'm guessing that you must be feeling exhausted from all of the upheaval and drama going on so regularly.  What else can you think to do to gather strength for what is ahead?  Are you sleeping, eating?

We are here with you and you'll find the input and advice of others in similar situations at present really helpful I'm sure.  Hopefully others will chime in with how they handle approaching difficult subjects with their partners.

Love and light x

    

[Catlady3.14]

Wow that is a lot to take on and it makes me cry. I want to be strong enough to do this. For myself, him and the kids.
I think I got a glimpse of validation for his cheating. It bare but
I was asking him questions and he snapped that he didn't know when and why this turned into 20 questions... .
I responded you truly don't understand why I have many questions?
He said "I do understand why you have so many questions" and then he answered and calmed down a bit and we continued a conversation.

My anxiety level is through the roof. I can't sleep. When I do I wake up in the night and stare at the darkness.
I don't eat much and when I do I am in the bathroom immediately.

It is ironic in that these boundaries are exactly what we needed to  give up for us to be partners.
"I real partnership has no boundaries " (his words,in the beginning our relationahip)
My mind thought that was a great thing but how wrong.
It twisted me into his reality and I took on much of his thoughts and distortions. and applied them to myself. Hurting and thinking the way he does.



He has become receptive to treatment. And he has said he knows he needs it. I asked him what was stoppi mg him from going and he said the hassle but he knows it would help

How do I respond to this without pushi mg him away?

[Harley Quinn]

My anxiety level is through the roof. I can't sleep. When I do I wake up in the night and stare at the darkness.
I don't eat much and when I do I am in the bathroom immediately.

OK Catlady, this we need to address as a priority.  Nothing is more important than your health.  If you want to be strong for yourself and your family then this has to improve for you.  What does your doctor say?

Wow that is a lot to take on and it makes me cry. I want to be strong enough to do this. For myself, him and the kids.

I'm sorry it upset you to read, and I think it's important you're clear on what you're dealing with here so that you can prepare yourself and gather all the information and support that you can.  Make your therapist work and be sure to keep your doctor aware of how your health is so they can help you.  Are any support groups run at your library?

It's great to hear that you managed to hold a reasonable conversation and remained calm when challenged by him.  What were your feelings around what he shared with you?

It is ironic in that these boundaries are exactly what we needed to  give up for us to be partners.
"I real partnership has no boundaries " (his words,in the beginning our relationahip)

This is not his first rodeo.

He has become receptive to treatment. And he has said he knows he needs it. I asked him what was stoppi mg him from going and he said the hassle but he knows it would help

How do I respond to this without pushi mg him away?

That's wonderful news.  I'd suggest to be gently encouraging.  Validate him about his thoughts on it.  Don't push or pressure him.  I hope others will share their experience with this too.

Here's what the experts say about when we're encouraging a loved one to enter into treatment:

Studies show that there are three areas that are most productive for family members to focus on.

Building trust. Not blaming or not finding fault, but rather respecting our loved one's point of view, listening without telling them that they are wrong - especially regarding their point of view that they are not ill if that is their thinking. Amador says that family members and clinicians should listen carefully to the loved one's fears.  "Empathy with the patient's frustrations and even the patient's delusional beliefs are also important", remarked Amador, who said that the phrase "I understand how you feel" can make a world of difference.

Reinforcing the developing awareness.  Reinforce the struggles that the loved one perceives as concerning. One of the most difficult things for family members to do is to limit discussions only to the problems that the loved one with the mental illness perceives as problems - not to try to convince them of others. Work with what you have. It is important to develop a partnership with the loved one around those things that can be agreed upon.

Our belief that the loved one will benefit from treatment.  Our loved one may be happy with where they are and moving them from this position is as much art as it is science - and it may take time.

 

(The above is taken from our article on getting a loved on into therapy, which you can find HERE)

Hopefully reading this brings you a sense of where to head with this.  Do you think you can find something to work with here? 

Love and light x

[Catlady3.14]

so today he was very receptive.
His mom came over to see us.(me and kids, he is still not ho me) She took us out to eat and to the store.
I messaged him before we left and tried to comfort him that I would be with her for a while and that I would respect him in not talking to her about him and that I would message him when we returned as I didn't want him to think I was ignoring him. It was four hours.
I come back to messages of panic that we just need to end it all and he needs to disappear.
I reassured him that I love him and we only ate and stopped at the store.
How do I handle this?
This is a huge boundary for me. I need to have contact with people and not be bound to do nothing and go no where unless he is present and wants to do what ever it is.
I know he is very fragile right now and I don't want to push him.
Am I wrong for going today?
 

[Harri]

Hi Catlady.

I am glad you were able to get out today and have some quality time with your kids and his mother.  I would not like someone controlling my behavior or feeling like I had to explain or defend myself.

I am wondering why you contacted him prior to going though?  Was it just to inform him?  Did he panic and then ask questions that prompted you to reassure him or was your reassuring him that you would not talk about him a preemptive move on your part?  I ask because sometimes in our efforts to anticipate and reassure we sort of set up a situation where the other person will be guaranteed to over react or panic. 

You know him best though so I can't say for sure what the best way to communicate with him is.  I do wonder though if instead of informing him before if you had told him after if it would have been better.  You certainly do not want to set up or reinforce the belief that he gets to approve your outings.

Thoughts?

[Radcliff]

Catlady,

I think you handle the situation well with your mother-in-law's visit.  You simply chose to let him know what was happening so he wouldn't be surprised.  Four hours is not overly long to leave an adult without communication!  It sounds like your response when you returned was reassuring, but short and not apologetic.  You do not have to take responsibility for calming his emotions -- that's his responsibility.  But you can acknowledge and validate his emotions and give basic reassurance.

Regarding that first quote that HQ posted, about a strong, loving person with boundaries being the kind that can help a pwBPD, I got the strong, loving part, but not the boundaries part in my relationship.  I have learned belatedly, and after much damage to me, how important the boundaries are.  I especially was impressed with you clearly stating that you need to have boundaries around seeing people.  You are headed in the right direction with that!

WW

[Turkish]

I am wondering why you contacted him prior to going though?  Was it just to inform him? 

I was wondering the same thing.  I also saw what you wrote earlier when he said "a real partnership has no boundaries."

In a relationship with someone who exhibits abandonment anxiety, control becomes a one way street,  and we learn to accept it in order to keep the peace. I was so "trained" to respond to my ex,  I rear ended a vehicle at a right turn yield.  She had just texted "when are you going to be home?" I felt anxious enough that I didn't part attention.  I was literally 7 minutes from home.  

I understand,  as you probably do,  why you would tell him.  Objectively, however,  you and MIL have a right to have lunch.  Rather than anticipating his anxieties, you can be truthful and brief.  "Had lunch with your mother and the kids." If he asks,  "no,  we didn't talk about you." If that is true. It might need to be repeated in a neutral voice, or repeated using SET.

[Catlady3.14]

I told him ahead of time because  We were talking. And things were going really well.
I told him we were going with her for a while and would message when we got back. Because he feels ignored and his mood quickly deteriorates.
He often feels like his mom"sides" with me.and pushes me to abandon him. She doesn't.
Him and his mom do not have great relationship but she is a good lady and has dealt with a lot of her own issues and they have buttheads heads often.
She loves him though and is a great gramma to all of our kids.

When I got back and saw the messages and replied he was calmed and said"  I thought you were leaving me to live with her for a while not just a few hours. I thought you had taken the kids and left for good. "

My response was " God no. I am sorry you felt that way for four hours. I would be upset too. "
 
THEN THINGS WERE BACK ON TRACK!

He wants to come home and he wants to got to therapy in the morning.
I didn't push or beg him to come home. He i s making these choices on his own. I'm so happy about this.
I told him it wouldn't be easy and it isn't an instant all over relief, at least it wasn't for me. And how my first day went... .

[Catlady3.14]

THANK YOU ALL SO MUCH.
I know the challenges aren't over but god  bless we are baby stepping it there I hope.
(Baby steps to the hall! Lol
Bill Murray is the man!)

I'm so thankful for all of you and this site.
I have just understood I can't do this isolated. I have to have someone to talk to. Boundaries need to be there and have respect for one another. I can't control him. And I don't want to. nor vice versa But I can love him and respect his feelings and separate them from my own.

I think it is going to be super hard to do in person all the time and that is worrying me. But feeling like I understand the tools better now.

Thank you guys. It's hard to believe total strangers can be so caring and have been through the same things I'm going through. I can't say thank you enough.

[Harley Quinn]

You're welcome Catlady.  Someone was here doing the same things for us when we all arrived here.  We support one another here and I'm sure you make a big difference to others who read your threads and to those whose threads you join to support them too.  It's a family.

I'm so pleased things are going positively right now.  It won't always be easy, but with the tools you can help yourself and your husband to communicate better with one another and restore some balance in your lives, at least for some of the time.  What is vitally important is that you take good care of yourself and your own needs.  

The sleep and eating do concern me.  It's hard enough as a mother without feeling exhausted and light headed.  Trust me I know.  How can you ensure you get more rest and what have you found that you can keep down if you eat it?  You may have to start gradually and build up.  Meantime, there are meal replacement drinks which give you all the nutrients your body requires that you can purchase or may be able to get from your doctor.  I'd suggest that you speak to the doctor around your anxiety too if you haven't already?  That's one of the best decisions I made for myself when I was going through similar.  

Remember that when an aeroplane gets into trouble and the oxygen masks come down, you must secure your own mask first.  Being in a relationship that requires you to be a caretaker is exactly the same thing.  Put you first, then you can help and support your husband and children effectively.  I'd love to hear about what you're able to implement for yourself and how things are going at home.  Stay in touch.  We care.  

Love and light x