Grief over borderline family members and my unhealthy coping

[Depression = 72% of members]

Ever since my family told me I was unwelcome to come for Christmas (My siblings and mom are borderlines.), I have been heartbroken and noticing that suddenly I am more interested in men who are in pain with poor boundaries than usual. This is an old pattern that I thought I gave up years ago. It seems I am experiencing a fantasy bond with these men, as there is no possibility of any kind of healthy relationship, and my boundaries are really not what they should be. I am basically staying out of relationships for now, yet at times I feel very lonely and needy. Other times, I feel just fine. I know I need to lose my fear of intimate relationships, make more real friends, do more things that I am passionate about, and be more comfortable in my own skin. I am starting to feel that I am more deserving of better treatment than my family has provided, and I am worthy of people who treat me with kindness and respect. The challenge is to recover from the wounds to my self esteem as those who have good self esteem naturally have good boundaries with others and attract the right people and things into their life.

[zachira]

Ever since my family told me I was unwelcome to come for Christmas (My siblings and mom are borderlines.), I have been heartbroken and noticing that suddenly I am more interested in men who are in pain with poor boundaries than usual. This is an old pattern that I thought I gave up years ago. It seems I am experiencing a fantasy bond with these men, as there is no possibility of any kind of healthy relationship, and my boundaries are really not what they should be. I am basically staying out of relationships for now, yet at times I feel very lonely and needy. Other times, I feel just fine. I know I need to lose my fear of intimate relationships, make more real friends, do more things that I am passionate about, and be more comfortable in my own skin. I am starting to feel that I am more deserving of better treatment than my family has provided, and I am worthy of people who treat me with kindness and respect. The challenge is to recover from the wounds to my self esteem as those who have good self esteem naturally have good boundaries with others and attract the right people and things into their life.

[Kwamina]

Hi zachira

I believe you are talking about this past Christmas right? I am sorry your family shut you out like that. Have you had any contact with them since they told you this?

As we grow up in an environment with BPD family-members, we often develop certain coping mechanisms that particularly in the long run might not be so healthy. Perhaps it might help to consider what it is you are looking for in these relationships:
- What do you think is the main reason you are interested in this particular type of men?
- Can you perhaps identify a specific need or void inside of you that you hope these bonds could fill? Do you feel like these bonds might add something that you feel is currently missing in your life? If so, what do you think it is you are looking for?
- When you consider the way your family has treated you, what are the main thoughts that come into your mind? Can you name the feelings you experience when you think of the way your family has treated you?

The challenge is to recover from the wounds to my self esteem as those who have good self esteem naturally have good boundaries with others and attract the right people and things into their life.

I agree that there is a certain correlation between self-esteem and healthy boundaries, yet at the same time, I think even people with 'healthy' self-esteem can find themselves struggling with boundaries. People for instance might start off with healthy self-esteem and feeling good about themselves, but if they've never learned to actively set and enforce/defend boundaries, they might still find themselves struggling at some point when faced with certain challenges.

Do you generally feel like you struggle with boundaries or only in particular areas?

The Board Parrot

[Turkish]

Parrot has some good points to dig deeper.  Though I don't come from a large family like you do zachira, I can relate to your feelings. I met my uBPDx through volunteer work,  so I'm turned off by that... .but it isn't that helping others is bad,  but that my boundaries and attractions need work.  I'm alone for now,  but I also feel that I don't trust anybody,  which if I were honest,  may mean that I don't trust myself,  perhaps?

[HappyChappy]

The challenge is to recover from the wounds to my self esteem

So sorry your family is treating you in this way, it does sound like silly BPD mind games. You mentioned your siblings are all BPD, wow they really had you outnumbered. Well done in surviving that, and also well done on realising its not personal and you are deserving of others. Hey you’ve got the word Amassedor next to your name, so that’s acceptance. You’re not just part of the BPD family, but you’ve got access to their executive toilets.

Personally I see it as a good thing if someone with a PD doesn’t connect with me, so being excluded by your BPD part of the family may have its benefits. For starters, if you are trying to build self esteem you don’t want some BPD who knows your weakness reminding you every day.

Blood is not as important as we use to think it was, you can be part of our family, our clan. With respect to building self esteem, what things do you do on a daily basis to achieve this ? I was told to repeat my achievements over and over each morning. I thought this was bonkers but after a couple of weeks, it started to work and I’ve only got one achievement. I would also agree with what the Parot and Wolf said (this place is like a zoo). What things are currently doing on a regular basis (he asked hoping to get some tips) ?   

[zachira]

Thank you for your thoughtful and kind replies to my post. I have been doing some reading and thinking. I am now realizing that I sometimes have very poor boundaries when I interact with someone who has poor boundaries as well. I am vulnerable to taking on the projections of others, and thinking that these are my feelings. It makes perfect sense, as since birth I have experienced certain family members constantly projecting their uncomfortable feelings on others, and making up negative narratives about others that fit with their uncomfortable feelings, which is so borderline.
I realize that I need to work on feeling that I am indeed okay and lovable. That feeling secure in who I am will make it much easier to set healthy boundaries and reject the negative projections.
I am trying to spend quiet time each day meditating, walking, and going out in nature. I have been isolating myself since last Christmas, as at times I have felt so worthless and unlovable. I am proud that I have not had a major depressive episode. I am allowing myself to cry when I feel sad, and then I seem to be able to cheer up. It is time to get out and live my life, and forgive myself for so much wasted time spent on painful interactions with family members  and things I can do nothing about, and realizing I indeed do deserve to follow my dreams. Most of all, I want to develop more healthy intimate relationships with family and friends, and find meaningful work and pursuits. I have only one life to live and I really don't want to waste any more of it.
Thank you for reading this. I welcome your feedback.

[Turkish]

I am now realizing that I sometimes have very poor boundaries when I interact with someone who has poor boundaries as well.

I've never thought of it that way,  but that is entirely correct given my past friendships with unhealthy people. The trouble is shutting one's self off too much.  Life requires a little vulnerability and trust and I'm afraid I've gone too far the other direction, maybe. 

Nature, gotta love it. I'm glad that you are getting out. 

[HappyChappy]

I realize that I need to work on feeling that I am indeed okay and lovable. That feeling secure in who I am will make it much easier to set healthy boundaries and reject the negative projections.
I am trying to spend quiet time each day meditating, walking, and going out in nature. I have been isolating myself

Hey zachira,

Sounds like you’ve got this pegged and you’re doing all the right things. I would say most of us on here would benefit from more nature and improving boundaries. You have to trust someone in life, but we need boundaries to protect ourselves. I have friend who’s very trusting, weaker boundaries, he’s been ripped off quiet a few times, but he doesn’t care. He’s one of the happiest people I know, because he always see the good in people. So you could say he is too trusting, but he would say I worry about things that may never happen.

I had a project on, where I had to follow the news daily for months. Now I've stopped watching, I feel happier. The news tends to focus on things to worry about. And its not as if I can do anything about North Korea.

[zachira]

Happy Chappy and Turkish,
You are right that we need to have healthy boundaries yet we can't be too rigid with our boundaries either. Otherwise we will miss some good people, and a big part of having loving relationships is being vulnerable which means we are going to get hurt sometimes. Thank you for your thoughts and feedback. You have reminded me that I don't want to get into the perfection mode, as that ends up being very self defeating. There is no special formula to protect ourselves from never getting hurt. Having positive self regard and healthy boundaries in most situations is a good start.

[Harri]

Hi zachira.  I am so sorry your mother and sisters have chosen to cut you out.  That happens so often when one person changes for the better and it upsets the whole dynamic.  There is not much I can say to make this hurt less.  How could it not hurt, they are your family.  For us family members I don't think there is necessarily a point where it does not hurt but there is a point of acceptance.  At least I hope so because that is what I am working towards.

It makes sense to me that after being cut off you would be interested in men who are not good choices.  At some level, even though you have changed, your family still served a function.  I am not sure what it was but now that it is gone you are naturally going to be pulled to fill that empty space or function.  We tend to replace like with like right? 

The thing is you are recognizing this pattern in you and you are making better choices.  Maybe the struggle you are experiencing right now is that next step in the healing process.  Battling out the old urges for dysfunction with the knowledge and awareness that you are worth ore and you do not want to revert back to old patterns.

I say just go with it.  Observe, keep deciding to stay away, know where the urge is coming from and seek new ways of filling that void.  Your activities are excellent for that.  My T is always talking about building on positive experiences.  So when you are ready, maybe join a group walk or hike.  No need to socialize a lot, just say hello, smile, walk and be in a group. 

[zachira]

Thank you Harri for understanding where I am at. I am working on acceptance, and yes there are no words to describe the pain of the escalating abuse by my mom, brother, and sister because I was no longer willing to allow them to project their uncomfortable feelings on me. They kept doing what they could to hurt me until they got the desired affect which is I once again am feeling sad, unloved, and isolated. Thank you for understanding that it is so hard to pick myself up from this and being attracted to the wrong kind of men makes perfect sense considering what I am dealing with. I do not want to fill my broken heart with more pain and sorrow, so I have to keep busy, be aware, and accept what I cannot change, and what I can do. I know I can have a better life if I continue to go to therapy, work on acceptance and staying present with my feelings. On a positive note, I feel this is all happening so I can deal for once and for all with all the shame, and start a life with is fulfilled with close warm relationships with self and others, and doing the things that fill my soul with joy and compassion for self and others.

[LeneLu]

Zachira,

I am intrigued by this statement you made:

"I am vulnerable to taking on the projections of others, and thinking that these are my feelings. It makes perfect sense, as since birth I have experienced certain family members constantly projecting their uncomfortable feelings on others, and making up negative narratives about others that fit with their uncomfortable feelings, which is so borderline."

I have most definitely experienced this with members of my family.  It is such a good description of what BPDs do.  I used to think it was just them be "judgey" but now I see it more as a trait of the disorder. But WHY do they do this?  And more importantly, what is a good response to such behavior?  I would love to stop the BPDs in my life in their tracks when they pull this.  Mostly because I feel like if I don't say anything to counter their "negative narratives" that they think I am in agreement with them and may even misrepresent me by saying "LeenLou and I were talking the other day about how you... ." when I just didn't engage or contradict.

[zachira]

Leenlou,
Thank you for responding to my post.
I agree with you that it would be great to be able to defend ourselves when the borderlines dump negative projections on us. I find that the best strategy for me is to calmly disengage as soon as possible, because disagreeing with them does not seem to accomplish anything.
As far as the lies they spread about others, I feel I have to be my best self, and some people will see through the made-up stories, which are all projections.

[Harri]

Hi again zachira.  I missed the significance of this earlier.

I am now realizing that I sometimes have very poor boundaries when I interact with someone who has poor boundaries as well. I am vulnerable to taking on the projections of others, and thinking that these are my feelings.

I used to do that or at least I think it is similar.  Not just with bad things my mom would say to me though.  It was with anything.  Someone would say I was angry so I apologized for being angry... .assuming they knew more than I did, even to the point of knowing my emotions.  Or someone said that I as rude and I immediately apologized not realizing what they were doing was rejecting my comment and blaming me rather than admitting that I said something they did not want to hear.  Or that I triggered them and it made them mad and they were not far enough along in their healing to realize that me being me was just that and that they had to be responsible for their feelings including their triggers.  They may not like me and that is fine but that does not make me mean or bad.  There are people I do not care to be with.  It does not mean I don't like them or they are bad, they are just not a good match for me.

Someone, I forget who, used to frequently say on the boards that if someone said the sky was green we would know it wasn't.  Well, not this Dope.  Not too long ago I would have done my best to believe the sky was green because everyone knew better and more than me and even if I disagreed I did not want them to feel bad or stupid or uncomfortable so I would go along.  I wanted to accept them the way they are, just like how I want to be accepted. 

Poor boundaries, poor differentiation of self, poor self image.   

Is what I wrote above included in what you are talking about in that quote?  Or am I way off base?

I know I can have a better life if I continue to go to therapy, work on acceptance and staying present with my feelings.

I know you can too!

I feel this is all happening so I can deal for once and for all with all the shame, and start a life with is fulfilled with close warm relationships with self and others, and doing the things that fill my soul with joy and compassion for self and others.

Agreed, what is happening right now will pay off in the end.  Great attitude!

[zachira]

Harri,
Thank you for all you kindness and support. I have really been in crisis mode the last few months. I like how you explained how others' projections can affect you. I really believe that allowing myself to experience others' projected bad feelings as something being wrong with me is one of my biggest challenges. Prior to my crisis, I was feeling that I had conquered healthy differentiation from the family. I now realize that when the chips are down, I am most vulnerable to taking on others' unwanted feelings. I am starting to feel better and learning  a lot. Thanks once again.

[Harri]

  

As you said, a crisis is exactly when we are going to find our sore spots and areas that need some shoring up.  I think that it is normal that our biggest challenges are going to rise up and challenge us at these times.  Its those dang scars. 

I think you are doing very well staying level headed, observing your thoughts and changing your patterns of behavior!  Keep up with the self care.  This time of grieving will pass.

[braveSun]

 

As you said, a crisis is exactly when we are going to find our sore spots and areas that need some shoring up.  I think that it is normal that our biggest challenges are going to rise up and challenge us at these times.  Its those dang scars. 

I think you are doing very well staying level headed, observing your thoughts and changing your patterns of behavior!  Keep up with the self care.  This time of grieving will pass.

I now realize that when the chips are down, I am most vulnerable to taking on others' unwanted feelings.

I also feel that I don't trust anybody,  which if I were honest,  may mean that I don't trust myself,  perhaps?

Yes, I second Harri, and thank you zachira and Turkish, for bringing this up.

It is a sensitive point for me as well. And if I may, I would like to add this. When I feel vulnerable in some way, even when just tired, I do see myself as over-tuning into other peoples' emotions and can get like a sponge for other people's negative ones.

I have been thinking about this for a while. I see that as a small child, I did have to learn to tune into what my raging parent was feeling very early on because I needed to feel safe. I learned to tune into him and to do the things that I instinctively knew would appease him. I became very good at that skill. I would be silent, invisible, efficient, and most of all, would find ways to do what I thought would bring or keep the peace. The down side of this is that by accommodating to his moods before I had language for my own emotions, I learned to care for a loved one by over-tuning into the beloved, and over-accommodating. The empath by default, if you will.

Now well into my adult life, I see that this skill can be both a good thing and a bad thing. When I am in a vulnerable situation, let's say if I am attracted to someone new, maybe for a potential new friend, I tend to over-tune into that person by default as well. I also tend to feel a good deal of anxiety. Because, maybe like Turkish is saying, I feel unsure of myself. Sort of like having one foot on the break and one foot on the gas. 

What I am learning is that I need to trust my intuition. I know that there is a balance somewhere, and that the automatic merging with other's emotions is a normal mechanism. It was for survival back than. And when you think about it, it's a pretty good survival mechanism. Maybe I need to readjust the thermostat somehow.

When I feel tired, or sick a little, or when facing the need to invite new people into my life, there is a good deal of unknown. I feel vulnerable.  That's when I get the feeling of self-doubt, the automatic merging into other people, or low self-esteem starts to come up. In some self-compassion meditation I've learned to tell my adult self it's ok to feel that way. It's my young self jumping in, struggling to take it all on too quick, too much at once.

I think being in any kind of vulnerable position will bring this mechanism into action. It's a marvelous safety mechanism actually, if it can be used as a barometer of sorts.

[zachira]

Thank you everyone for your replies.  I am finally starting to value myself for who I am, and am less affected by the negative projections dumped on me by my family. I am still drawn to men who like me are afraid of genuine intimacy and close relationships, though the time spent dreaming of the impossible is going down and how these men behave are having less of a negative effect. Overall I feel so much better about myself. I have been reading a lot about what makes people able to have warm caring relationships with self and others. I am starting to feel that I really can overcome spending so much time on fantasy bonds and activities, and that caring relationships based on love and respect with friends, certain family members, and a significant other are all possible. I recently read that you cannot have healthy boundaries and relationships with others until you feel worthy and lovable for most of the time. I have known many people with exceptional self esteem and they just naturally attract the right situations and people, and know how to confidently say no to situations and people that don't feel right. I am a work in progress!   

[Turkish]

My old sig line was "value yourself for who you are, not for who you are to others."