Initiating Breakup?

[guineap]

I need some advice. Is it recommended to initiate a "breakup" when in a relationship with a BPD parent? I have concerns about the appropriateness of this and about the impact on my two youngest sisters.

Also have concerns about dealing with other parent who thinks they are a great person because T has told him that he has to take care of his kids and that BPDm has the most problems in the relationship. How does one deal with two parents with severe issues?

Some backstory:
I have asked BPDm to go to group therapy with me as she continues to tell me the exact same thing over and over again. She claims that the T she is attending won't see us and she refuses to see my T because my T said that she would only treat my mom in a group setting so she didn't cross patient confidentiality as she treats all the kids in the family. My BPDm says therapy is not helping and that we need to work on communicating together because that is biblical and Christian.
BPDm says my T is causing the rifts in the family and we need to see a results based therapist. What is results based therapy? Is that even real?

Was told I needed to consider moving out if I went to my brother's wedding. After an epic showdown both before and after her leaving town during the wedding weekend, she told me I was unloving and that I needed to move out soon. I then got a text saying the following: "I worry that you are in a bad place spiritually and emotionally and every way. The current state that has been imposed upon us by humans means that we cannot talk about it or me move toward you to try to bear your burdens. So I am praying for God to heal you. I encourage you to turn wholeheartedly towards Jesus and find comfort in the Psalms. Every human condition is written about in the Psalms. The Word has the answers for all of us. It says that we should settle offenses quickly so that no bitterness takes root. It says that the Spirit brings like mindedness. None of this is taking place and so that is why it is not improving. I love you. Praying for Jesus to meet you in this." I responded with "Thank you for your prayers. I am reading the Psalms daily. I think that us moving towards each other is going to take time and therapy. Praying for you too. Love you." I got the following back: "I am sad that is what you believe ... .the time, therapy, etc ... .then I won't be able to convince you otherwise. Thank you for your prayers." How else should I respond to that type of manipulation? The funny thing is that she has stopped going to church again (the 7th time that I am aware of) and is actively preventing my younger sisters from going with me when they say they want to (by not letting me wake them up to go). I don't know what to do about this. Her theme of being biblically accurate is a major issue in trying to talk to her or address issues. I am not good at responding to her and I tell her I disagree and think she is wrong, but this does not seem to be a good approach. Suggestions?


This also brings up my dad. He has told me on repeated occasions that I am not capable of making decisions, should not be a successful person running my own company and tried to marry me off when I was about 20. I have multiple issues with his behavior over the years, but because of my BPDm's behavior and T telling him she has problems and he is getting help, he is considering he is a pretty awesome and caring person. He told me the other day that he tries to talk to her about the issues to take the brunt of her attacks so us kids won't get it. Everytime he is around, it seems to me that he provokes her either ignorantly or on purpose and it makes the drama about a 1000 times worse. I cannot stand him because he only talks about himself and tells me he is trying to help, which is not even remotely the case. He tells BPDm details about his children (such as where they are living when they haven't told her and specifically don't want her knowing, or things they are doing to "show her how they are getting on since they've left her". I have nothing to say to him, but don't know what to do with him. Suggestions?

The most laughable bit lately of any of this (which is saying something because I don't feel much of anything these days) is attending the latest Avengers film with both parents and younger sisters. My dad thought it was funny and awesome and kept talking about the silly bits over my sisters and my discussion. My sisters and I got really emotionally involved in the characters and plot. We got out of the theater and my mom promptly started telling us how she appreciated one character because she'd been through so much and then was still kind to all the awful people in her life and that she loved Captain America because he defended and loved Bucky even though Bucky had done bad things. These are the kind of comments I deal with and I don't know what to do other than ignore them. What do I do in these situations?

Anytime I try to just talk about the day with BPDm, I get suppressed anger. I am tired, so I applied to move in with my sisters. I have not told her or my two little sisters yet. I do not know how to do this. I am sad because I suspect that I will no longer be allowed to communicate with my sisters or do things with them. I also do not know what to tell them. Suggestions? I know that drama is imminent and that makes me sad. My brother, who is helping me take some pieces of my furniture out of the house while BPDm is gone, thinks I should just tell her I am done and go. I don't know if that is the best way. I am not sure what good I am getting out of the relationship (mostly cause I feel there is not one at the moment) but I feel somewhat that I should try to leave the door open (and I know that this may be part of FOG, but I cannot tell). I would like ideas or suggestions of material to read on this subject.

What do I do about my maternal grandmother and great-aunt who think I am doing good by staying and that I need to apologize for causing BPDm distress? I feel slightly the need to explain or defend my actions but am unclear if I should let them know I am going because I need to heal before even attempting to deal with mom.

I am sorry this is so long. I feel like it is all welled up inside me and needs to spill out somewhere. I started a second job and feel that my sadness and constant mental dwelling on the issues are preventing me from enjoying the new people and position. I am also so tired of dealing with all of it and feel that I need to move on, which is why I am trying to leave. Thank you for listening.

[Panda39]

Hi guineap,

Lots going on in your story.  I think moving out is a good idea, walk out of the FOG there is plenty of it even from your grandmother and aunt. 

Move out and get some separation from your family and you should start seeing the situation more clearly and then see how you feel and then I would re-evaluate the situation.

Don't JADE (Justify, Argue, Defend Explain)... .when you move out just say I'm an adult and it's time for me to be out on my own.  You don't have to make moving out about them at all.

Take Care,
Panda39

[Fie]

Hello Guineap 

Like Panda, I think it cannot be a bad idea to move out.
Moving out is what happens naturally with children in any household.

What do you think ?

xxx

[guineap]

Thank you for the advice. I have moved out (as of Monday). BPDm came home early from her trip and in a bad mood on M's Day. I had been watching the house, working both jobs, dealing with 24 animals and cleaning. I found out the Wednesday while she was gone that I could move in and arranged with sisters (who all work odd hours like me) times to bring a couple of car loads over and got my brother who has a truck to bring furniture and bike over. I did not mention any of this to my BPDm who randomly texted me on her trip asking about the animals. I have been slowly moving my stuff out of the house for the past 5 months. She got home and started weeping on me that I had not gone with them and that I should have made the time because I used to love where they had gone (we lived there for a while when I was a kid).

Once BPDm had finished unloading, I asked if she had a minute and told her and younger bro and sisters that I had a gotten a great opportunity to get into an apartment and was going to move out. She proceed to demand to know where it was, who it was with, why I was doing it, how long I had been planning it, and why I hadn't told her. I probably gave out too much information, but I tried to reiterate that I was getting out to practice being on my own until I went to school. I did tell her it was with sisters (they said it was ok) and that bro had helped me move. She accused me of going behind her back and not communicating with her. It ended up being a long conversation where I kept trying to redirect, ask questions, and repeat everything she said. She did a lot of projection (saying I had done things she had done) and just kept repeating herself until I said that I was sorry that she couldn't accept what I was telling her and that when she was ready to attend therapy together I would go. I said I was going to bed and left the room. I am still not sure that I handled this well. I did record it, and have been recording most conversations with her because she lies so much about what happened.

I had an early shift the next day and returned to her house with the intent of grabbing my last few things (computer and clothes). She followed me around telling me things such as I was rejecting everything she'd ever given me (I said I was not taking some really bulky, breaking, old furniture that apparently belonged to my great-grandparents because a. they were breaking, b. they would not fit in the moving trailer, and c. they were too heavy); I did not need to figure out how to live on my own because I had already done it (lived four months on a college campus during which time she came out for a week and daily pressured me to come home with her because that would be best for me); she had been pushing all of us to get our own place and we were doing it wrong; and I was crushing her and my two little sisters. I honestly did not care about any of these comments. What bothered and concerned me most was some of the things she said as I was trying to get into the car and leave and I would like some feedback.

I had presents for my two little sisters (and I managed a quick word with them alone reminding them I cared deeply and that they could reach me anytime and to remember if they felt like they were in any danger to call 911 or run over to the neighbors - who are really nice people and BPDm has cut out of communication cause they called her out on stuff). I had a thank you card for BPDm, just stating that I was appreciative of her giving me a home and place to live and a sense of adventure and that I was simply going out on my next adventure. She said she did not want anything from me ever again (this did not bother me). Then she said that she had called a bunch of people - her T, my grandma, etc and they had all agreed with her that I was an underhanded, sneaky, deceitful person because I had not told her the full truth about what I was doing with my luggage, stuff, etc. My question with this comment is - is she right? I had pulled my luggage down before the wedding to clean it and eventually pack it because she'd said I needed to get out. I had only told her I was cleaning it - mostly as a defense to avoid the drama. Was this lying? I had not told her I applied to move in with my sisters because I figured it wasn't her business. Was this wrong? To me I was telling her I was doing something, she treated it like I was asking her permission and I never said anything to that effect at all. She's seen me packing up all my stuff, but not taking it out of the house. Should I have said that I was removing it? I feel like this would have been more trouble, but was it being untruthful? I've always thought I knew the difference, but now I am not sure. Is this just FOG?

She also said that she was going to take my two little sisters and go somewhere we (my other siblings and I) can never hurt them again. Should I do something about this remark? My dad will not step up and even try to get custody of my two sisters and personally he's not much better regarding emotional abuse. He also continues to pay for everything for BPDm and I feel he stirs her up on purpose because that has been their mode of relationship for all of my life.

BPDm put an envelope in my car as I was leaving "for my sister" and told me I was taking a car she had personally suffered over to get for me (another long story). When I gave the envelope to my sister - an amazing artist, she opened it find one of her early works of our family torn into pieces. Then, we all started getting text messages about how BPDm is going to keep us from seeing T (my sisters are on dad's insurance still, but paying the copay themselves and I was a pro-bono since I don't have insurance) and how we are splintered and the T is rich because of us (she does charge a bit high, personally, but first person to listen and advise on what was really going on). BPDm said she's going to find and go to a results-oriented T (what is that?). I said thank you for the information and went to bed. I am not sure how else to respond to her. Suggestions?

I got another text sometime during the night but didn't read it and went to work. Got back, had a nap and got a text saying I was ignoring her and was I going to take bro's grad pictures. I really don't know what to say. Also, how should I handle trying to go and see younger siblings? I said I wanted to try and hang out. I am not sure I'll be allowed, but I owe one money (she glued a bunch of scrapbook pages for me) and want to try and pay her this weekend. What should I do?

I still feel emotionally drained (some of that may be due to finally being able to call my best friend for the first time in months, only to find out she might have cancer), but upshot is that today is the first day in a year that I have not coughed or had a runny nose. Also, I slept last night for more than 4 hours. Where do I go from here with talking to BPDm? What about my sisters? Pretty sure youngest bro is moving out soon too (left him leftover boxes under his bed!). Got off her phone plan this am and sitting on my dad to get car title in my name so I can get off her insurance. Don't know how or what to proceed with in any form of relationship. Still trying to read up on it around the rest of my life.

Thanks for listening!

[sklamath]

Hi, guineap! There is so much I can relate to in your story, from my own BPDm's difficulty letting me become my own person as I became an adult, and the way your BPDm is weaponizing faith & scripture.

I'm glad to hear you have moved out. You can expect your BPDm to be upset, given that she's created a no-win situation: She has both told you that you need to move out, and wants to punish you for doing exactly that. Move forward with your life, and make sure that you are taking care of you. There are so many great resources on this site, and you at least have the benefit of knowing that BPD is at the root of your parent's thinking & behavior. I know that may not bring immediate comfort, but it does bring a certain ability to understand the dynamics at play, expect certain thinking & behavior patterns, and give you some resources for you to take care of you.

Then she said that she had called a bunch of people - her T, my grandma, etc and they had all agreed with her that I was an underhanded, sneaky, deceitful person because I had not told her the full truth about what I was doing with my luggage, stuff, etc. My question with this comment is - is she right?

Let's say she's right in that you were not 100% honest or open with her.  By framing the situation as she has, do you see how BPDm has created a situation you can't win? Yes, you were not 100% forthcoming with her, but you did what you needed to do to be safe. I've found it helpful to reframe BPDm's accusations with the lens of, ":)id I act with integrity, or in a way I needed to in order to keep myself safe?" What other option(s) did you have? What do you think the implications of being open with her would have been? Given her behavior with your sibling's artwork, would you have reason to believe she might try to damage your belongings if she knew your plans? And given your answers to each of these questions, do you feel you acted appropriately?

What else in this situation could be described as "underhanded, sneaky, and deceitful"? Cutting off contact between her children and other family, friends, and neighbors? Seeking validation for her own feelings and behavior by talking to a bunch of people? Do you think these words describe who you are, or do you think they might be a projection of how she feels about herself?

You don't have to answer all of these questions--it's just an example of how you might consider if the question "is she right?" is even the right question to be asking. I'm learning that a lot of accusations my BPDm throws out mid-tantrum or while pout aren't "wrong", but are mostly a way of sucking me into FOG and perpetuating a circular argument.

She also said that she was going to take my two little sisters and go somewhere we (my other siblings and I) can never hurt them again. Should I do something about this remark?

I wouldn't recommend reacting, as long as you feel your younger siblings are safe. She is using anything she knows that you care about--your siblings, your faith, your independence & individuation from her--to try to get you to do what she wants you do to. Do your little sisters have a way to contact you if things get crazy? Does the neighbor have your contact info if they needed to pass something along?