Running out of ideas

[Depression = 72% of members]

My spouse was preliminarily diagnosed with BPD by a therapist; she broke away from the family therapy after two sessions, but the therapist let us know this was the likely cause of her volatile behavior and harsh treatment of myself and, often our children over the years.  The therapist also strongly recommended that we not convey the topic of BPD to her; subsequently I've done my own research and she seems to squarely fit the description of 'high functioning' BPD and has the typical childhood background of being ignored/unloved.  Our children are now grown and on their own, enabling them to keep their distance, but I am still on site and the harsh treatment, blame for her deep unhappiness, rages and insults continue.  We are heading toward a divorce scenario (she threatens this regularly) and I am running out of ideas and energy. 

My overriding goal of keeping the family together is reducing in importance as our children move into their mid-20's, and I am increasingly convinced that I would be much happier in my personal life with someone else or on my own even.  However, on the other hand neither of us are easy 'quitters' and there is a basis of long term relationship.  I believe both our preferences would be to stay together for the duration, but only if the situation gets better. 

Has anyone successfully changed the trajectory of such a situation?  Thanks.

[waysforward]

My spouse was preliminarily diagnosed with BPD by a therapist; she broke away from the family therapy after two sessions, but the therapist let us know this was the likely cause of her volatile behavior and harsh treatment of myself and, often our children over the years.  The therapist also strongly recommended that we not convey the topic of BPD to her; subsequently I've done my own research and she seems to squarely fit the description of 'high functioning' BPD and has the typical childhood background of being ignored/unloved.  Our children are now grown and on their own, enabling them to keep their distance, but I am still on site and the harsh treatment, blame for her deep unhappiness, rages and insults continue.  We are heading toward a divorce scenario (she threatens this regularly) and I am running out of ideas and energy. 

My overriding goal of keeping the family together is reducing in importance as our children move into their mid-20's, and I am increasingly convinced that I would be much happier in my personal life with someone else or on my own even.  However, on the other hand neither of us are easy 'quitters' and there is a basis of long term relationship.  I believe both our preferences would be to stay together for the duration, but only if the situation gets better. 

Has anyone successfully changed the trajectory of such a situation?  Thanks.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[pearlsw]

Hi waysforward,

It sounds like you are up for exploring the option of staying together. I get that. I am like you, I wonder at times if it would be better to be alone or with someone else. On the other hand I hate to "quit" when there is even a remote chance. I loathe the notion of breaking up, but sometimes it happens. I understand that it's not an easy decision, and at the same time it can be hard to imagine a future together.

Do you have much familiarity yet with the tools here? I think it takes a big mental readjustment to take this on, and even then it may not work, but if you are up for it than it may well be worth a try!

So the therapist told you but not her about the diagnosis? Is therapist supporting you and her on these issues? What kind of therapy are you doing?

What are some of the most troubling symptoms that you see in her? What are the things that are the most upsetting for you to deal with?

with compassion, pearl.

[RolandOfEld]

Hi waysforward and welcome.  

Seconding pearlsw that I am also in the stay and improve or go and find a new life boat with my wife / partner of ten years and mother of our two young kids. I have managed to guide the trajectory of the situation towards a better result as I've helped coax her towards the possibility of treatment, but I found that improvement doesn't erase the pain that's already there.

What usually triggers the divorce threats, and to what factors in her life does she attribute her "unhappiness"?

~ROE

 

[waysforward]

Thanks for the welcoming remarks and offers of advice.  A few responses to your points pearl:  My wife's initial diagnosis emerged from a pre marriage counseling program for my son and his fiancee, which included sessions with the therapist for my wife and I.  My son had/has lingering issues having grown up with a controlling, short tempered mother, so he asked that their therapist meet my wife and I.  The counseling for this purpose lasted only a couple of sessions (my son and I had hoped that my wife would get comfortable with the therapist and continue on her own--she didn't want any part of that).  In any event to give my son context the therapist shared with him the preliminary BPD diagnosis for my wife but cautioned him to not pass that onto her.  He related all this to me privately and that was the end of that.  There's been no subsequent therapy or counseling for her or for me since then.

Her primary symptoms are extreme sensitivity and volatility when conversing with me either in person or on the phone/facetime.  She can go from reasonable and relatively pleasant very quickly into a screaming, cursing rage marked by very, very hurtful insults.  Interacting with her is like walking through a minefield--you might make it to the other side but never know when you'll get your leg blown off.  As a result, I feel that I am under constant scrutiny and could be blasted, belittled and mocked at any moment; and this by the person I should be most personally close to you.  While I am the one then who gets the full complement of this behavior, she treats other people with a more moderated version of the same.  Our kids get level 2, my dad, sister and her husband level 3, and once you get to acquaintances it's not that noticeable.

ROE, to your point, the divorce threat springs from her low self image and deep unhappiness, that she conveniently projects the blame for onto me.  She has a well worn litany of grievances, some going back over 20 years.  So in a real or contrived instance of me not hearing or understanding her, or in her view not pulling my weight around the house, she can quickly get to the "I should leave you", "I should have divorced you already", "I picked the wrong guy 31 years ago", etc.  It's tiresome, and results in a constant threat circumstance/state of emotional blackmail.  I'd love to hear how you may have reversed or at least neutralized such a situation.

[RolandOfEld]

ROE, to your point, the divorce threat springs from her low self image and deep unhappiness, that she conveniently projects the blame for onto me.  She has a well worn litany of grievances, some going back over 20 years.  So in a real or contrived instance of me not hearing or understanding her, or in her view not pulling my weight around the house, she can quickly get to the "I should leave you", "I should have divorced you already", "I picked the wrong guy 31 years ago", etc.  It's tiresome, and results in a constant threat circumstance/state of emotional blackmail.  I'd love to hear how you may have reversed or at least neutralized such a situation.

Hi wf, I've probably been threatened with divorce close to a 100 times in our 11 year relationship. The closest those threats ever came to reality were receiving signed divorce papers in my email.

I guess the major shift for me that helped coped with this kind of behavior is mindset. I used to believe she would follow through on threats. I used to think she had some consistent, internal perspective on me and our relationship. Now I understand when she's saying things she's acting on the emotion of the moment. You and I as nons (people without BPD) make rational plans for the future based on long term thinking, deep consideration, and whats to the benefit of all. When our wives threaten divorce, they are just finding a way to escape from the extreme feelings of the moment, which are probably more shame and anger towards themselves than towards us.

When my wife makes the divorce threats now, I just calmly tell her that she is free to do as she chooses but must arrange all of it on her own. She used to command me to go out to buy the divorce papers, arrange for our kids, and transfer her my money. I did all these things. I will never do them again. It's all on her. And by the way, she's the one who has to move out since I pay the rent and have my name on the rental contract. She has to arrange care for the kids because she's the one who wants to leave. And she has to support herself financially since I'll be taking care of the three of us. She says fine to all this and divorce is usually off the table within an hour.

Have you tried responding with any of the above?

~ROE

[waysforward]

Hey ROE,

I have seen this pattern, but not to the extreme that you have.  In a way, it's more insidious:  her narrative goes like this:  'Why am I still in this relationship; I should divorce you if you don't change, if you're not going to change then cut me loose!" 

Not only does she not take any tangible steps (counseling or any real actionable steps like the signed papers), she's looking to deflect the initiative onto me.  So I have learned this and just don't respond, though in a way I secretly hoping maybe she will just go through with it.  Then she will have taken responsibility and ownership at least in that case for her own situation and taken steps to resolve it.  It's kind of amazing to me that she claims to want/need this divorce but is projecting the responsibility to actually do something about it onto me. The more I learn about BPD, though the more this makes some sort of twisted sense. 

My solution so far is to maintain my independence/sanity with work, family, friends, exercise, etc. (all of which are targeted for vilification by her).  At some point I may hang up the cleats if this doesn't moderate within the next year or so, though I am concerned about the second order effects on our kids, even though they are all in their 20s.

[RolandOfEld]

My solution so far is to maintain my independence/sanity with work, family, friends, exercise, etc. (all of which are targeted for vilification by her).  At some point I may hang up the cleats if this doesn't moderate within the next year or so, though I am concerned about the second order effects on our kids, even though they are all in their 20s.

Good solution as I see it, waysforward. What is your children's interaction with your wife like at this point, and how do you think a divorce would effect them? Is it possible they would be happy for you as they are already grown up?

The way I see it now, its highly unlikely my wife would ever be able to effectively implement a divorce as she is now since this requires sustained and focused action and resolve. Anger at me in the moment would eventually be replaced by terror of being alone. The point is her actions would not be guided by a stable understanding that its time to go. On the same end, me doing it unilaterally from my end could get extremely messy as well as she shifts between acceptance and rage. Feels like it would be very hard to settle it in any reasonable way.

I guess my plan for the present - since my wife is making overtures towards getting help - is to first see if the situation improves. If she gets well enough to handle this sort of matter maturely and consistently, it might be a much easier break later on. Or maybe we wouldn't need to break at all.

~ROE