Nightmares and panic attacks

[deirdre]

Alright, so i have a question for all of you out there who might have some answers or advise.
For the past couple weeks I have been having nightmares. They are just getting worse and worse not really content wise, but the way I react. I am completely exhausted today. I keep being woken up atleast once a night sometimes more, my heart racing and just full out panic from whatever the dream was. Benign "normal" fear things like spiders and snakes usually, so content isn't the problem. My body flipping out is a problem though. It has been getting so bad that before I even go to bed my heart starts racing, I do a lot of deep breathing exercises. At night and now throughout the day, it isn't really touching it though.

So my question is, for any of you out there who have had problems with nightmares and waking up full of adrenaline/anxiety. How have you coped? I for one am only a couple weeks into it and already exhausted. My memory has gone down the drain and my energy level is lower then the normal low energy I have.

[Turkish]

Do you remember your nightmares? What do you think it's triggering these? The recent revelations that you have shared here regarding your sister and your clouded memories?

[deirdre]

turkish
I don't really actually remember the content of the nightmares. Last nights I woke-up to  thinking something was in my room coming down from the corner of my wall above my bed. Woke up half dreaming seeing something there, had to turn the light on and look around my room. The night before I woke up in a panic and searched my bed for bugs. I don't remember what actually happened in any of the dreams that are recent. I have always had nightmares that follow me out of my dreams for a few moments. I remember as a child waking up and running to my parents room and the whole way into the room through the hallway I could still see a bunch of colorful tree frogs chasing me.

 

What do you think it's triggering these? The recent revelations that you have shared here regarding your sister and your clouded memories?

I am really unsure, I think it is connected with my unfinished, unremembered and clouded memories, probably considering the coincidental timing.

But I am remembering a lot of benign stuff as well and it could be attached to the fact that I used to have nightmares a lot as a child and some of the memories are related to those nightmares? Maybe. Or it could be something as simple as it is spring and we have bugs out again and I hate bugs? But if that is the case then I should have nightmares a lot, reoccuring every spring... .If I remember to remember this next spring I will see if that is it.

[Turkish]

No one likes bugs 

You recently made revelations about your dad raping your step sister, and we're unsure of memories of your own.  Do you think this might be related,  and have you talked to anyone about it whom you can trust? Even if nothing was done to you,  it's curious that you connect adult nightmares to child nightmares separated by decades. 

[deirdre]

I think some part of me is terrified, of having surgery and being taken care off, unable to leave the house. Especially since my uBPDf is having surgery two days before me. He is a terrible patient, I am anxious about the upcoming stress in this household. My mother will be having to take care of both of us and my special needs little sister. She is going to be at her wits end.

I know I won't be down for that long, but I am wondering if my sudden increase in having a racing heart and nightmares. Has to do with the fact that I am going to be having surgery and physically not able to fully take care of myself and rely on my parents. I don't think I would feel this type of nightmare inducing anxiety about it had I not just had memory and emotions returned to me? The thought of my half sister back on my mind, my own traumas personal or not. I am also very excited about moving, but now that I am feeling the time crunch to packing, I am finding myself saddened by leaving my home. Because I know, even though I am leaving things behind, that if I am to heal and get better I can never come back to live here. Despite all the bad time here, the doors kicked in; having to concealed carry around my own house just to feel safe at times; the fights, the arguments all of it. It is all home to me and change is hard.

Even if nothing was done to you,  it's curious that you connect adult nightmares to child nightmares separated by decades.

I don't know why I connected them... .They just, feel the same? I've had nightmares throughout my life they come and go. But these are so reminiscent of the kinds I had as a kid. They are the simple nightmares of a child, not the labyrinths of my teenage nightmares.

[Woolspinner2000]

Hi Deirdre, 

I'm really sorry about the nightmares and dreams going on for you at the moment. I've had them too, less now than in the first few years of T. However, just this week I woke up from one with my heart racing in terror, like what you're describing. I'm sure I hate them as much as you do! 

A couple of thoughts. How old would you say you feel in the dreams? You mentioned:

But these are so reminiscent of the kinds I had as a kid. They are the simple nightmares of a child, not the labyrinths of my teenage nightmares.

I ask because I wonder if your inner child of that age isn't trying very hard to get your attention? Ask her what she might be afraid of or what she is feeling either before the next dream or when the dream happens and listen to what she has to say. Imagine that you are sitting down next to her at that age, holding her hand (or holding her tight in bed) when she is so afraid and having these dreams. She'll tell you what is going on. Comfort her and reassure her that you are there with her and won't leave her side. Don't try to talk her out of what she's feeling but rather acknowledge whatever she is experiencing.

Pete Walker mentions the impact that dreams have on us when we wake from night terrors and are already triggered into an emotional flashback from when we were little, but we often have no clue what triggered us. Those are the worst kinds, when we are already saturated with adrenalin and have to face our day. It's important to realize that you are having an emotional flashback 13StepsManageFlashbacks .

I hope this helps. I've been there so many times before. These things have helped me to get through the dreams and night terrors.

 
Wools

[Turkish]

Despite all the bad time here, the doors kicked in; having to concealed carry around my own house just to feel safe at times; the fights, the arguments all of it. It is all home to me and change is hard.

Do you feel unsafe that you have to carry on your own home? I'm not against anyone protecting themselves as they can but what's going on?

[Harri]

Hi Deirdre.   Would you be willing to take a test that will assess the risk level for domestic violence in your situation?  It is called the MOSAIC test and it would help us to know how best to guide you.  Here is a link to the test:  https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=304172  I wish I had known about it to take when I was still living with my parents. 

This is not about adding to your stress.  It is simply a tool that will help you to look at your situation and as I said, help us to help you.

You can share your score with us if you like.

[deirdre]

Harri I just took the test got a 7/10.

Turkish

Do you feel unsafe that you have to carry on your own home? I'm not against anyone protecting themselves as they can but what's going on?

I currently don't feel unsafe in that way, but when my uBPDf loses his marbles I do carry because he is unpredictable during those episodes. I began doing this because about 4 years ago during a major episode, I don't remember everything clearly. But what I think I remember is my parents were fighting, my father walked out of the house, my mother locked him out (he was threatening her). He broke open the door, came in got his shotgun and possibly his handgun if it wasn't already out in the spare room/cabin he was staying in on the property across from the house. My mom called the cops but we are 50 minutes from the police department. He was walking around the yard with a shotgun over his shoulder, my mom in the house with a handgun watching him from the sides of the windows. I and another lady who was over at the time to take care of my sis took my little sister and sat in the bathroom (safest place to be)... .The cops got there after awhile, by that time my dad was in the cabin, it took them forever to talk him into coming out. When he did he wouldn't leave the gun, it was a big hullabaloo. Anyways a lot happened after that too but this is the background to why I don't feel physically safe sometimes. He fully believes during his sane moments that he would just kill himself, not harm someone else. But he projects and blame shifts most things to my non-BPD mother.

So, since then if things look rough, he doesn't seem stable. I generally will carry, not really for myself and my own protection. But because I don't trust him around my mother and around my sister during those episodes. Intuition wise, I have had people tell me we aren't safe, one of my sisters has had nightmares of him killing me, my mother, my sister and himself and getting the police call letting her know. This is probably not the best thing to admit but, 4 years ago after that happened I came to terms mentally with the fact that I wouldn't hesitate to shoot if necessary for self-protection even if it was my own father. It hurts me greatly to think that my own dad could mess up so badly that I would have to even think about that. A 16 year old girl shouldn't have to think about these things, shouldn't have to contemplate what she would do in a situation like that. Shouldn't have to harden herself to come to terms with that.

[deirdre]

woolspinner2000
Sorry that you have also had to deal with night terrors and this week as well, though I am thankful that you shared that you have dealt with these. It is nice to not feel alone, so I really appreciate you sharing.

How old would you say you feel in the dreams?

I don't know, the dreams I am connecting them to I was probably about 3-5? It is so hard to tell. I have so few memories around that time, that I don't have a good frame of reference to guess from.

I ask because I wonder if your inner child of that age isn't trying very hard to get your attention? Ask her what she might be afraid of or what she is feeling either before the next dream or when the dream happens and listen to what she has to say. Imagine that you are sitting down next to her at that age, holding her hand (or holding her tight in bed) when she is so afraid and having these dreams. She'll tell you what is going on. Comfort her and reassure her that you are there with her and won't leave her side. Don't try to talk her out of what she's feeling but rather acknowledge whatever she is experiencing.

Thank you for this advice! I will try this. I practiced a bit after I read this and it triggered some emotions in me. After I just told myself it was okay and I was there (feels weird to say that to myself) but I ended up having a flood of feelings. I was in the bath and ended up just sitting in the hot water with the cold from the shower coming down on me and probably 20 different memories and emotions related with the sensation of cold water, rain, cold showers came back to me. All spanning through my life, no specific time frame back and forth. I just sat there and let it happen, trying my best to not force them to either go away, or stay. It was odd to let that happen. Sorry this is a little off topic, but it is related by timing and maybe the feeling of being safe after letting myself know it was okay to feel the things I was feeling. I looked at the link you sent, I think that will be a really helpful resource in the continued struggle I have ahead of me. There seem to be a lot of disconnected pieces and ages of myself that are trying to connect again. It helps to realize that it is an emotional flashback, not just some insanity. That emotional flashbacks are real and valid, not just visual/memory flashbacks like I used to think.

I think I need to learn how to have more patience with myself if I am going to continue dealing with these difficult healing processes.

[Harri]

Hi Deirdre.  Thank you for taking the MOSAIC assessment.  How did you feel when you read the results?  Was it what you expected? 

I am sure you read that this assessment is about predicting possible escalation of a situation and giving you a realistic picture that you can use to work out a safety plan.  I know you are planning on moving.  I want to make sure I remember correctly, so can you give me a re-cap of your plans.  I believe you said it was for school.  Is that correct?  Where will you be staying?  How about financial resources?  Are your parents supportive of your move? 

You mentioned living far away from the police... .I assume that means you are in a rural area?  Sorry to sound stupid but I am a surburbanite both in reality and in heart!   

This is probably not the best thing to admit but, 4 years ago after that happened I came to terms mentally with the fact that I wouldn't hesitate to shoot if necessary for self-protection even if it was my own father. It hurts me greatly to think that my own dad could mess up so badly that I would have to even think about that. A 16 year old girl shouldn't have to think about these things, shouldn't have to contemplate what she would do in a situation like that. Shouldn't have to harden herself to come to terms with that.

I am glad you shared that with us.  There is no shame in admitting this.  It is your reality.  Understanding more of your situation it makes sense that you would have a means to protect you and your family.  It is heartbreaking that you have had to make the decisions you have.  You are right, no 16 year old should have to make that decision, nor should a 21 year old.   

Excellent work talking with your little Deirdre and sitting with your feelings.  Managing emotions after being shut off for so long is a big deal and a big challenge but you did it and will continue to do so. 

 

[deirdre]

Hi Harri
thanks for sharing the MOSAIC assessment with me. I didn't feel any strong feelings towards the results, about what I expected. It was hard answering some of it because it was geared toward a romantic relationship with an offender but did the best I could.
Safety plans are good, we used to have one. I don't even remember what all it entailed, I had an old cellphone and hotline numbers in case of emergencies in my room for the longest time.

  I want to make sure I remember correctly, so can you give me a re-cap of your plans.  I believe you said it was for school.  Is that correct?  Where will you be staying?  How about financial resources?  Are your parents supportive of your move? 

Yes I am moving for a certificate program/schooling. I am going to be renting my brothers mother-in-law house that he is working on making livable right now. Financially i am better off today then I was last week, my grandparents graciously informed me they are going to pay for my surgery. So I have enough money now to pay for gas and moving expenses, I already payed up 4 months rent as well to help with renovation costs. I have a job lined up as well when I get there, but because of the surgery if I don't get to work as many hours as I hoped along with schooling I won't be homeless since I already payed up my rent for a bit. So I feel fairly solid in the financial realm right now for being a poor college age student. My parents are supportive of my move they have been helping me get everything together, my dads been fixing my car as its broken down about 2 times in the past month (eek). My moms been helping me organize everything I need to take. I am really grateful that they are on board with this.
Though I know its because it is a short term move. They are hoping I will move back in with them after I get back, I am storing stuff here so I will have to return but moving back in would only be if I had 0 options left. I hung out with a new male friend last week and my mother was very hopeful that it was more of a "date". Which they have never  been super supportive of dating before haha. I am pretty sure she has been hoping I would get attached to someone in the area to make sure I move back. Which makes me even more determined then I already was to stay attachment free. Though I am already very attached to the area because of my great social network I have going on here, that is a better draw then a romantic relationship for me. 

You mentioned living far away from the police... .I assume that means you are in a rural area?  Sorry to sound stupid but I am a surburbanite both in reality and in heart!  grin

Yes I am quite rural out here, my uBPDf is very paranoid of cities and even town and people in general now so it is for his sanity. The only way I was able to afford even living here and going to school and having a social life was because my grandparents helped with my gas at times. I worked hard for my right to be social and go to town and school. There was always a lot of guilt tripping involved every-time I would do something extracurricular, because it was a waste of money, time and gas. I totally love it out here though despite it all, being raised rural it is my reality and my heart as well just like it is for you being a suburbanite haha. 

I am glad you shared that with us.  There is no shame in admitting this.  It is your reality.  Understanding more of your situation it makes sense that you would have a means to protect you and your family.  It is heartbreaking that you have had to make the decisions you have.  You are right, no 16 year old should have to make that decision, nor should a 21 year old.   

Excellent work talking with your little Deirdre and sitting with your feelings.  Managing emotions after being shut off for so long is a big deal and a big challenge but you did it and will continue to do so. 

Thank you so much for your kind words and sympathy, it means a lot.
I wouldn't be able to deal with all these emotions so well without the "push" from people here telling me that I need to let them be and not shut them out. It really is a challenge to deal with them after they have been "off" for so long.

[Harri]

Hi Deirdre. 

It was hard answering some of it because it was geared toward a romantic relationship with an offender but did the best I could.

I know.  When I took it I was surprised that there were no answers geared towards those of us who are the children on domestic violence.  For me, it served as a reminder of how complex these situations are. 

Safety plans are good, we used to have one. I don't even remember what all it entailed, I had an old cellphone and hotline numbers in case of emergencies in my room for the longest time.

What do you think about putting one together now, at least emergency numbers and making sure you have a cell phone on you at all times?  I know you will be leaving soon but I'd rather act with an abundance of caution than leave it to chance.  Do you know if your mom still has a safety plan for her and your little sister?

It is a relief to know that you are set with four months of paid rent and that you have your grandparents to lean on as well.  On top of that your parents are supportive as well so that is excellent!  Things seem to be in good order then.  I think it is smart of you to let them continue to believe your move is short term.
 

I am pretty sure she has been hoping I would get attached to someone in the area to make sure I move back. Which makes me even more determined then I already was to stay attachment free. Though I am already very attached to the area because of my great social network I have going on here, that is a better draw then a romantic relationship for me. 

Good for you.  Thankfully technology will give you lots of options for staying in contact with your friends as well.  I know it is not the same as person to person but you have options as I am sure you know.

Deirdre, you are most welcome to our support, encouragement and gentle-ish pushes... .maybe even some poking to.  It is what we do here.  Good for you for being open to it all.  It is not easy I know but you are making the choice to face the hard stuff and keep coming back.   

[Woolspinner2000]

Hi Deirdre,

Lots of great help from Harri and Turkish, and I'm glad you're sharing and getting your plan all together. Good for you!  It can be hard to step away from dysfunction and see it for what it is sometimes. I'm glad you're getting a handle on it. I agree that the Mosaic test (or any test) about DV doesn't take into accout the fact that so many of us came from homes with DV. To us, it's normal.

Sounds like you had quite the experience with reaching out to your little one! It's amzing, isn't it? They often have so much to say, and we didn't even know it. I've come to have a much better understanding of why my body is reacting the way it does at any point in time if I pay attention to what age I may feel like, or which of my little inner children is speaking. A lot of healing takes place as we listen to the hurt feelings inside of us that someone's finally hearing. Good job.

 
Wools

[GreenGlit]

YES I also have horrible nightmares. To be fair, I've had bad nightmares since childhood - I have been screaming and thrashing around in my sleep for most of my life. Mostly the theme of the dreams involve my frustrations with my uBPD mom. Talk about repressed anger.

My nightmares are less common these days that I'm LC with my mother, but when I talk to her more or have generally more stressful moments in my life, they come back with vengeance  - I wake up in a panic, in a sweat, in terrible fear, wake up to my husband yelling my name to get me out of the violent dream, and I've even injured him from my thrashing around... .

I saw a sleep specialist. I'd recommend you see one too if you are able. But basically he told me to take melatonin as his least invasive initial recommendation. Not the 1mg baby doses most people take. I'm talking about the 10mg pills. He told me to take 10mg, up to 20mg, nightly. They helped tremendously. I also do breathing exercises going to sleep, and practice good sleep hygiene (try to stay away from screens 2 hours before bedtime, try to sleep at the same time, schedule 6-7 hrs of sleep a night, etc.) Hard for me to do with my schedule, but honestly the melatonin has done 85% of the job. I am actually a doctor and have to say that you should talk to an MD before starting on any new medication... .that said, melatonin is pretty benign and easily purchased over the counter. Might be a good supplement to other coping strategies, and it doesn't cause dependence like actual prescription sleeping pills. I usually take them more regularly around the periods of time I expect more stressful family contact.

[deirdre]

Harri

What do you think about putting one together now, at least emergency numbers and making sure you have a cell phone on you at all times?  I know you will be leaving soon but I'd rather act with an abundance of caution than leave it to chance.  Do you know if your mom still has a safety plan for her and your little sister?

I think it would a good idea, to at least talk to my mom about what her plan is once I am gone, make  sure she has things lined out just in case things go down hill again.
Woolspinner2000

Sounds like you had quite the experience with reaching out to your little one! It's amzing, isn't it? They often have so much to say, and we didn't even know it. I've come to have a much better understanding of why my body is reacting the way it does at any point in time if I pay attention to what age I may feel like, or which of my little inner children is speaking. A lot of healing takes place as we listen to the hurt feelings inside of us that someone's finally hearing. Good job.

It was amazing, I really am happy that you gave me that advice. It helps me to disconnect just enough while also being able to validate myself without fully feeling like I am "thinking of myself"
My T talked a lot about self-worth in our last session. It really made me realize how little self-esteem I have. I think this is a great way to put my toes in the water and start retraining myself into believing I am worth taking up space. I talked to her about the nightmares and her input was that it might be my brain testing itself,  on how much it can handle. So using things like spiders and snakes to gauge my reaction, to see if I can handle more memories and a different kind of nightmare. Kind of that sleep is a safe place to experience things I can't experience in person, something those things are aweful.
GreenGlit

- I wake up in a panic, in a sweat, in terrible fear, wake up to my husband yelling my name to get me out of the violent dream, and I've even injured him from my thrashing around... .

I have to give a warning now when a friend or sibling stays with me and shares my bed. Because I have hit people enough times in my sleep, or sit up and sleep talk and creep them  out.
Thank you for sharing your story about dealing with nightmares. Interesting how LC  has helped, I wonder if it might get better for me once I am LC and not living with my uBPD father.
I like your idea about melatonin, I used to take it some. Might help to try again, also about having clean sleeping habits, I need to adopt those again. When i had used those (though I wasn't having nightmares then) it helped me sleep so much better. I was well rested and generaly happier. That would actually probably be a really good thing to take when I  move, since I will have to adjust to having my own quiet space and a new timezone and moving is stressful. My lil sis and mom take melatonin and do well on it. The hard part is putting myself back on a sleep schedule.

[Cromwell]

vodka and valium was my best combination, regardless of how stressful life was, but that was a time I didnt care if id wake up or not.

moving beyond, I get a great sleep but have went through my sleep being decimated. The answer was, no stimulants whatsoever, no caffeine, smoking or alcohol.

avoid sleeping pills and anti-anxiety meds, they will work initially but only for a very short time until they produce a rebound opposite effect.

Its summer and it gets dark later, this makes it more difficult for melatonin. You have to ensure if you are going to sleep that your room is as pitch dark and void of sunlight as possible. You might be sleeping but the body can still detect sunlight. Get black out blinds if this is an issue and has been said, avoid computer monitors, televisions even mobile phone screens. Lack of sleep from these devices is becoming a society wide epidemic.

I found chamomile tea after 6 weeks was just as effective as diazepam, but without the side effects and rebound insomnia. I sleep great nowadays even though there is still plenty to still be stressed about.

[toomanydogs]

Hi Deirdre,
  My mom died when I was 14, and although I have made peace with that time in my life, it was incredibly difficult--sexual abuse, a pregnancy at 17. Very very hard.
  I had nightmares starting when I was a really little girl, about 6 or so, but her death exacerbated those nightmares, and I had nightmares from the time I was 14 until I was close to 40.
  I had dreams of being chased in the house where my mother died, of phones not working when I'd call for help. And I had dreadful dreadful dreams of water: water that was out of control, water that was stagnant and polluted. Horrible frightening dreams.
  Now admitting that, I realize this wasn't normal. For me, what eventually helped was rehashing all that trauma.
  I have taken anti-anxiety meds and antidepressants. The anti-anxiety meds helped me catch up on my sleep, but they aren't a long-term solution, and they are generally not prescribed anymore.
  Melatonin didn't work as well for me as valerian. I also now occasionally take Benadryl to help me sleep, but even with any of those aids, I never found them to alleviate nightmares.
  Once you leave home, your nightmares may abate. Your situation sounds frightening and unrelenting. I, too, took the MOSAIC when my STBX was still around, and I think I got a 6 or 7. I don't remember. It's really debilitating to be surrounded by violence or the threat of violence.
TMD

[deirdre]

Thank you cromwell and toomanydogs, for posting and sharing your stories with me. Sorry it took so long to respond, life has been hectic with moving and starting school (will post separately about that later). But tonight's nightmares reminded me I hadn't responded to this thread. The nightmares abated a lot the past month, I think it had a lot to do with me going back into ignore my problems mode. I need to go pick up some melotonin and valerian, they sound like a good option. Once I unpack my car and find it chamomile needs to be my go to before bed, I guess I can't expect good sleep every night and I have had a lot more good then bad nights. But even one bad night is more then I feel I can deal with right now. My dog was also restless and not sleeping all night and kept getting into things and then running up and sniffing me each time I woke up to make sure I was okay.
It is nice to know from you guys that anti-anxiety meds aren't a good long term option, I didn't really know that much about them. It is good to be educated about them if I do think about that route.

For me, what eventually helped was rehashing all that trauma.

I think this will probably be the best option for me as well, I just don't want to do it put the effort in right now, even though I should.