The reason so many people “recycle” their ex’s...

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

The reason so many people “recycle” their ex’s... .is not because anything substantial changed in circumstances to make them more workable partners... .

It is simply... .
A way to escape the experience of the grief

The grief can feel unbearable... .

Like sitting with it... .
Is torture
And can make one feel they are going to implode.

It feels like torture.

Anything other than facing and experiencing the grief... .
Usually is a distraction, avoidance... .of important healing work.

-Sitting with you in your grief if ok.-

It has been three years for me and a very teeny tiny part of me still holds the fantasy of “what could have been” of my ex.

(I’m in therapy... .working on early life trauma... .it is helping me get stronger than before I met the ex... .I’m gonna be way better at the end of this, I know it!)

[Sunfl0wer]

The reason so many people “recycle” their ex’s... .is not because anything substantial changed in circumstances to make them more workable partners... .

It is simply... .
A way to escape the experience of the grief

The grief can feel unbearable... .

Like sitting with it... .
Is torture
And can make one feel they are going to implode.

It feels like torture.

Anything other than facing and experiencing the grief... .
Usually is a distraction, avoidance... .of important healing work.

-Sitting with you in your grief if ok.-

It has been three years for me and a very teeny tiny part of me still holds the fantasy of “what could have been” of my ex.

(I’m in therapy... .working on early life trauma... .it is helping me get stronger than before I met the ex... .I’m gonna be way better at the end of this, I know it!)

[RomanticFool]

The reason so many people “recycle” their ex’s... .is not because anything substantial changed in circumstances to make them more workable partners... .

It is simply... .
A way to escape the experience of the grief

The grief can feel unbearable... .

Like sitting with it... .
Is torture
And can make one feel they are going to implode.

It feels like torture.

Anything other than facing and experiencing the grief... .
Usually is a distraction, avoidance... .of important healing work.

-Sitting with you in your grief if ok.-

I think this is profoundly true. The past 15 months have felt like a death. Unfortunately I am very well acquainted with loss having lost a brother when I was just 22 (and he was 17) and also my mother 16 years ago. I have always felt there are certain similarities between the r/s I had with my ex and my mother. There was a very strong psychological connection with her which led to co-dependent feelings. That awful feeling that you cannot relax unless you are with that person. I still feel in some ways that I need to be with her but her disinterest and mental cruelty towards me have diminished my feelings and the value I place on the r/s. Grief indeed.

It has been three years for me and a very teeny tiny part of me still holds the fantasy of “what could have been” of my ex.

(I’m in therapy... .working on early life trauma... .it is helping me get stronger than before I met the ex... .I’m gonna be way better at the end of this, I know it!)

Three years is a long time to be in grief. I have held a torch for somebody for ten years in the past and so I understand perfectly how you feel and how you could still have feelings for your ex. We love not wisely but too well... .

Sounds like your therapy is working.

[steelwork]

Thanks for these words, Sunfl0wer.

Three years is a long time to be in grief.

It is, RomanticFool. I'm in the same place as Sunfl0wer, more or less, and like you I've lost a sibling (my brother, last summer) and a parent (my father, when he was 51 and I was 15). I feel my whole life has been somewhat haunted by that earlier loss. I'm exploring the idea of complicated grief, considering getting into targeted therapy for that. Getting over the r/s with my ex with BPD traits has been unreasonably hard and slow. I think it's a global problem for me.

[Wicker Man]

part of me still holds the fantasy of “what could have been” of my ex... .   ... .it is helping me get stronger than before I met the ex

@Sunfl0wer

I read this post a few days ago and have been thinking about it ever since -thank you for sharing your thoughts.  Today is her birthday and it has been hard on me.  Last week a year ago was our engagement part.  We are 5 months no contact.  I know there is no going back, but I have a lot to reconcile emotionally.

I most certainly understand people's will to recycle.  It is hard to process a relationship which had so much potential.  Intellectually I know our relationship was very likely not built to last, but accepting this emotionally has been incredibly difficult.

The good parts of our relationship were incredibly good.  I believe she suffers from BPD and as a by product of her disorder she seems to have a hyper-sensitivity to emotion and art --this made her incredibly attractive to me.  Her ability to be touched so deeply, on a level I can only flirt with by art was awe-inspiring. 

Some of the images she would find and share with me were otherworldly.  I am not sure what it says about me, but her close relationship with psychosis made her muse like --I grew as an artist in leaps and bounds during our time together.  My world view changed. The feeling of growth was heady.

I was certainly not attracted by the push pull, or by the rage, but the times when she transcended reality as I knew it, was able to bring what she saw back from 'the other world' and share it with me was like nothing I had ever experienced.  For her part she said she enjoyed not being called 'stupid' for having such feelings.  We often spoke of her dreams and visions -her world has a lot of magic in it.

We were watching a movie and she saw a tear on my face.  She asked why I was crying -I said because it is beautiful.  Tears began to stream down her face, she said she didn't know it was ok to cry at beauty.  Her past relationships were with rather brutish men.

Her painful childhood has created something terrible within her, but also something overwhelmingly profound.

I fell victim to the notion I read from Kafka "By believing passionately in something that still does not exist, we create it. The nonexistent is whatever we have not sufficiently desired."  --I had hoped by loving her enough it would bring a sustainable relationship into existence. 

Sadly, with the beauty of her magical world there is also so much pain the beauty is all too often blotted out in crushing darkness.  Dysphoria, disassociation and all of the mayhem this brings with it.

I seem to have wanted to stay by the beautiful part of her at nearly any cost.  This is where the haunting feel of 'what if' comes bearing down upon me.

The thread goes on to speak of loss.  My parents are gone, horrible slow deaths brought on by cancer and somehow separating myself from her has been thus far harder to accept. 

I am very thankful for so many people here sharing their pain and their experiences.  It helps me remember I likely did the right thing in ending our engagement.  But today is a hard day.


Wicker Man

[steelwork]

A beautiful portrait, wicker man. "Her world has a lot of magic in it." That's going to stay with me for a while.

Do something for yourself today.

[Wicker Man]

Do something for yourself today.

I plan to go bike in the mountains.  I find I am going through life as a somnambulist these days --doing the things I know are right and good for me, although there is currently little joy in them. 

There will be again one day soon.


Wicker Man

[gilac]

I have waves of thoughts like this these days... .and the reason is very personal.

I never had luck with girls since my teenage years, don't know why, but I always had this kind of bad karma. And for some reason she happened and it was unbelievable at the time. I actually liked her before, but I distanced myself from flirting almost 5 years ago because of that bad luck. So, I didn't approached her when I first noticed her.

Fast forward, here I am alone again, knowing the fact that I'm not part of that cycle of "flirting world" where everyone finds someone from time to time. I know that there's a big chance nothing will happen in years to come. Also, I've never been uninterested in girls on this level ever. I just don't want to go trough this again, maybe it's some kind of trauma after a relationship with a BPD.

That's why I might think about her being healthier some day in some moments. We went trough a lot of things. But her life isn't based on that, her life is sadly based on changing the batteries once in a while.

I think that's one of the biggest reasons for me personally. But I know if someday she contacts me it will lead into disaster if I don't resist it.

[once removed]

good discussion! just wanted to add some thoughts and possibilities.

relationship recycling is the norm (over 60% of relationships in general "recycle".

Is Recycling Always Unhealthy?

Not always.  Let's break this down. Sixty-two (62%) of relationships do not end at the first break-up. For a wife to have second thoughts about a divorce is normal. Sometimes our own self doubt makes us want to try one more time. Sometimes one partner promises to change something. To reconnect with a person after a break-up 1-2 times is really not all that unusual.

When there are more than 3-4 "break-up/make-up" cycles in a relationship there is something seriously wrong.  And when this happens, the likelihood of a positive outcome are greatly diminished.

there are lots of reasons why two parties may give the relationship (at least) a second go, and resistance to the grieving process is certainly one of them. others (mostly relating to resistance to grieving) include:

Are we afraid to be alone?

* Do we have our own abandonment issues?

* Are we fearful that we cannot find someone as good as them again?

* Are we fearful of the next step (dating, financial issues, etc.)

* Inability to deal with acute loneliness

* Severe insecurity / needing validation (from someone that highly values them)

* Shame / wanting to prove they are a good person (to us or themselves)

* Immaturity/Manipulation/Control - the break-up was just a way to get their way.

[Wicker Man]

relationship recycling is the norm (over 60% of relationships in general "recycle".

It is interesting the nomenclature adopted here as a result of the disorder.  Here we refer the break up / make up as 'recycling'.  It might be interesting to consider this on other boards.  Here on 'learning' and on 'detaching' it makes sense, as to my ear it has a negative connotation.  The idea of falling back into a destructive cyclical relationship.

There was an interesting discussion of the term 'Replacement' a little while back.

... .there are lots of reasons why two parties may give the relationship (at least) a second go.

This made me think of Esther Perel's quote "... .most of us in the West are going to have at least 2-3 marriages or committed relationships during our lives  — and some of us will have it with the same person".

@once removed thank you for including the quote about the reasons why people make up.  It is concise, informative and a bit scary. 

My wife and I are currently trying to... .  ummmm... .recycle?  reconcile? make up?... .  You get the idea... .  In doing so we need to first and foremost figure out are we attempting to staying together for the right reasons.

--The concern of being overly motivated by apprehension and fear.


Wicker Man

[Sunfl0wer]

Well... .
Thinking that the reasons people recycle... .are still the same... .
Call it “to resist grieving,” or call it... .
To stop feeling/experiencing the pain they are with.

Now... .
To move onto a talk of where that pain is originating from within us... .I suppose is another topic.  Or could be same... idk.

Tbh, I did not propose this topic.  I guess someone forgot to add that unsual fine print to the original post.  So my apologies if I don’t seem so vested, but will do my best to be polite host non the less... .

So personally... .
The part of me that has grief is pretty small and not so connected to me.  It does not overtake me.

My husband passed over 20 years ago.
I felt sad many years later over the loss of what I hoped for him and our future.  I am at peace with it now.  However, it was like a slowly disolving, shrinking piece of my experience that got less energy over time... .as I moved forward with my life.

My current “attachment” to this bit of grief... .is my own fears of moving on and going back to school and some other things I want to accomplish but am a bit scared.  

So I maintain this somewhat... .broken ish inside me stance... .cause I’m afraid of failure.  Afraid of trying... .then failing.

Self actualizing, I know... .just sayin tho.

I am “ok” and can be very much “ok” with where I am at... .
But... .this small piece of grief is in a collection with other sad or upsetting things all hanging out in a much bigger container together... .together with other struggles, losses, etc... .together they hold me back from taking some risks.

[MeandThee29]

The problem with recycling is that it is trying to repair something that is very broken, particularly if it happens repeatedly. It can get to the point that you don't keep count any more. If that is the case, you need to look deep and hard at what is going on.

Recycling involves magical thinking. They believe that somehow this time will be different. Healthy people will indeed do something different. They'll go for counselling, set boundaries, or give up on it. Unhealthy people keep doing the same thing, hoping to get it this time.

Mine wanted me to break all family and local ties and start over with him in a new place. Thankfully I had been through enough recycling and had gotten healthy enough to know that wasn't at all a consideration. By then I also realized that he was more in love with the illusion of our relationship than he was with me as a person.

[Sunfl0wer]

When mc seperated my ex and I because abuse entered into the relationship... .he set the boundaries.

This was a relief for us both.

Boundaries he set were this... .
We were to not return to be a couple, unless the “offending party” could own up to their offense 100% without expressing mitigating circumstances.

And only then was the possibility on the table for reuniting.

He also explained... .
The relationship would NEVER be the same again.

He told us we would never return to the “way it was”

This effectively dispelled any/all magical thinking

So even if there was not abuse between us, imo... .
For us to proceed reuniting... .
And maybe having a chance at “something more” than what we had... .
Circumstances had to be similar
And we would have to reunite as different persons willing to build a brand nee relationship... .
Not simply rejoining to attempt to recreate “what was.”

My2cent worth

[SlyQQ]

Funny i've never recycled, ever,

certain my ex BPD would take me back but that is no.

been 7 years since alone still

[Wicker Man]

He (Marriage Councilor) also explained... .
The relationship would NEVER be the same again... .  ... .He told us we would never return to the “way it was”

Perhaps this is the difference between a recycling and reconciling or making up.  I completely agree with your marriage councilor's statement and it is necessarily true.  After the pain and destruction of trust such a rift causes in a relationship it is literally impossible to wipe it away and simply pretend it never happened. 

It takes time and a lot of effort to rebuild trust and one has to have a reason to believe something has changed in the 'new' relationship.  This change is where a new foundation can begin to be built.

I supposed technically I recycled once with my undiagnosed BPD lover.  She ghosted me and when she reappeared we talked about it, and I accepted her spurious explanation.  I do not wish to sound angry at her when I say spurious -it is more wondering at my own willingness to accept such an absurd situation.

I would like to give myself a little wiggle room here... .I had been unaware of BPD at the time and had no idea of the emotional quagmire I was wading into.

Once Removed mentioned fear is a frequent motivation for people recycle.  I would like to add blind optimism and pride to the list.  I found myself blinded by the idea that love heals all wounds and didn't want to accept that my love could not be a panacea.  --currently optimism dimmed and pride humbled

Wicker Man

[MeandThee29]

When mc seperated my ex and I because abuse entered into the relationship... .he set the boundaries.

We were to not return to be a couple, unless the “offending party” could own up to their offense 100% without expressing mitigating circumstances.

And only then was the possibility on the table for reuniting.

He also explained... .
The relationship would NEVER be the same again.

He told us we would never return to the “way it was”

This effectively dispelled any/all magical thinking

And we would have to reunite as different persons willing to build a brand nee relationship... .
Not simply rejoining to attempt to recreate “what was.”

This is the message I received over my many years of individual counselling. The last counsellor used the illustration of burning and rebuilding a house. If you are willing to start over, you can certainly rebuild with an eye to what can be done better, but you can't rebuild by focusing on the old house. And you won't enjoy the new house if you only think about the old house. Both partners have to have that mindset.