Difficult conversation this morning, he blamed me again, hard to cope

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

So this morning I had such an awful conversation with my ex again. He started blaming me of all the things I've done again. I couldn't stay as calm as I had wanted to. I copied and translated the conversation here (quite a bit of work haha). I hope that's okay. I just needed to share it and I hope you can give me some insight as to what is going on in that head of his, because I am at such a loss at the moment. He didn't reply to my last message anymore. I regret sending that message, because I take all the blame on me in it and he probably now thinks that he didn't do anything wrong and that he was in the right by acting like he did. We haven't been in contact since. I just don't understand him anymore. I don't know what I should do. Am I really such a bad person? Do you have advice on how to handle conversations like this better in the future? It hurts so much being split black. Before this conversation he had been mostly nice to me again in our contact.

(bit of background: we met eachother at a rowing association but during our relationship he absolutely detested that place and hated it whenever I went there or met people from there. Very hypocritical, since literally all of his friends he met there. I got a bit frustrated when I found out that he went there tuesday night, since he was always so awful to me whenever I went there)

For some reason it didn't let me post the conversation here, so I put the rest in a reply below. Think my computer was just being difficult.

Ex: Hey Blooming, do you maybe have time tonight?
Ex: And why weren't you at the beer tasting last night?

[blooming]

So this morning I had such an awful conversation with my ex again. He started blaming me of all the things I've done again. I couldn't stay as calm as I had wanted to. I copied and translated the conversation here (quite a bit of work haha). I hope that's okay. I just needed to share it and I hope you can give me some insight as to what is going on in that head of his, because I am at such a loss at the moment. He didn't reply to my last message anymore. I regret sending that message, because I take all the blame on me in it and he probably now thinks that he didn't do anything wrong and that he was in the right by acting like he did. We haven't been in contact since. I just don't understand him anymore. I don't know what I should do. Am I really such a bad person? Do you have advice on how to handle conversations like this better in the future? It hurts so much being split black. Before this conversation he had been mostly nice to me again in our contact.

(bit of background: we met eachother at a rowing association but during our relationship he absolutely detested that place and hated it whenever I went there or met people from there. Very hypocritical, since literally all of his friends he met there. I got a bit frustrated when I found out that he went there tuesday night, since he was always so awful to me whenever I went there)

For some reason it didn't let me post the conversation here, so I put the rest in a reply below. Think my computer was just being difficult.

Ex: Hey Blooming, do you maybe have time tonight?
Ex: And why weren't you at the beer tasting last night?

[blooming]

Me: Hey! I have singing class tonight and afterwards I'm going to the movies with Friend
Me: I could do tomorrow during the daytime, or saturday
Me: And do you mean you really went there? Weird
Me: I don't really go to Rowing Association anymore

Ex: Saddddd, who is Friend anyway?
Ex: I can't on any of those days
Ex: Yes all my friends were there

Me: My housemate
Me: Also not on saturday? I could also do friday morning.
Me: I didn't really expect you to ever go to Rowing Association again, after all you said about it
Me: Are you even allowed to come, since you're not a member anymore?

Ex: I always have classes during the day
Ex: And of course I'm allowed, I even got a free ticket
Ex: But all my friends were there so I had a good time

Me: But on saturday you don't have classes right?
Me: And that sounds good
Me: Glad you had a nice time

Ex: I have to study all day on saturday
Ex: Yes, but you weren't there, loser (I think that was meant in a funny way)

Me: If we had still been together you probably wouldn't have liked it if I went. Because all the people there are awful, remember?
Me: My first free night is Monday. But I'd prefer to meet during the day time. Oh well

Ex: Yeah it was a very sad business. Lots of pitiful people
Ex: Fine, then we don't meet

Me: Yeah I thought so
Me: And sorry, I just have a lot of stuff this week, concert tomorrow, friday work and saturday a family bbq

Ex: No it's fine
Ex: It's like it always was right? So nothing has changed
Ex: I'll see you at the festival (we're both going to the same festival next weekend)

Me: Ex you can't really blame me for not taking you into account when I was making plans, since you weren't really in my life anymore. These things were all planned a month ago
Me: But sure, if you want to say it like that again (this was hard to translate)
Me: Have a nice day

Ex: Like it was any different back then?
Ex: Long live the fun
Ex: I just find it very typical

Me: Then I had a lot of obligations, like committees and rowing. I don't anymore. All my weeks are really free. I just plan things because I like having something to do at night.
Me: Back in march you must have noticed that I had a lot more time right?
Me: But it's okay

Ex: Oh right, because you can't be 'alone' remember?
Ex: It's fine. Do what you want. I don't care

Me: I'm fine being alone, I just prefer being around people.

Ex: Tsssk, I can remember that you blamed me for not having time for you in the evening because you didn't want to be alone. (this happened only once btw)

Me: I didn't blame you, but I didn't like it, that's true. And it's something I'm not proud of at all. Thank you for bringing it up, now I can be sad about that again.

Ex: Well you're doing the same now right?

Me: What do you mean?

Ex: I thought you we're doing better, means that you should be able to handle this right.
Ex: I've been very sad for two months, you didn't do anything about that either right?

Me: I am doing better, but that doesn't mean I wouldn't have wanted it to all have gone differently Ex.
Me: I have offered to drink coffee with you multiple times. And it's not like I've been there for the whole 2 months Ex, we've only been in contact in the last week.
Me: But you're remarks are working, I'm feeling extremely guilty now

Ex: Glad to hear that, then that's clear
Ex: And you never offered it, it was always because I asked you

Me: Ex it was clear you didn't want me in your life. I have tried, back then, to be there for you, but you only pushed me away. I thought you didn't want me or my company. That's why I kept quiet.

Ex: And what about the last few weeks? I never asked anything from you. When I ask something it means I'm really not feeling well.

Me: But Ex, we aren't together anymore. You can't expect me to be there for you any second when I know that seeing you and being with you would be a big setback for me and would only hurt me. Could you try to see that? Being rejected by you every time wasn't very nice.

Ex: I can imagine it wasn't nice. But it wasn't nice for me either, and now I'm thinking of me. In stead of only thinking of you and how you're feeling. (well If he only thought of me than why the hell did he keep contacting me this past half year, knowing that we'd never really get together again and he was only hurting me?)

Me: And when you asked me to go for a walk I agreed, but whenever I got back to that, or proposed to have coffee with you, it was always about sex in the end.
Me: I don't really feel like this conversation is going anywhere. It hurts me a lot at least to hear again all the the things I've done wrong. I think it might be better to stop now.

Ex: That's such bull___
Ex: Fine, confrontation clearly is too much again

Me: If you wan't to talk about this it might be better to meet up. Because this isn't working

Ex: Pity you don't have any time Blooming

Me: Ex I'm sorry but I think you're being a bit mean now.

Ex: Why? I'm right

Me: I don't understand why you want to hurt me again
Me: I'm sorry I couldn't be there for you

Ex: Because I'm irritated by how you have filled in your life
Ex: Thank you

Me: Ex I'm sorry for how you have felt these past few months. I wish I could have been there to support you like you have supported me when I wasn't doing well. I understand you're frustrated. I didn't know/still don't know what's best. You clearly blame me for a lot and I'm sorry I didn't do those things right. If you still want to talk on monday (about that), then let me know.
Me: Have a nice day

[pearlsw]

Hi blooming,

No, you're not a bad person, but you did, intentionally or not, bring up a touchy topic and seem to have initiated a fight. Sorry to tell ya that!  

I think it is really important to take a lot of care in what we say. And I'm not talking from any high horse here, my SO can be very difficult and I haven't helped matters by telling him that "he treats me worse than all the other people I've ever met combined." Etc. Ouch!

But yes, you can use some tools to work on your way of speaking. It takes discipline, a willingness to make mistakes, and keep trying for you - for your own dignity.

I know it bugged ya, but trust that he is his own person and if he didn't like going to a certain place and now does, well, what difference does it really make? Gripe about it to us here or with your other friends if need be, but bringing it up to him  is not worth it in my opinion.

with compassion, pearl.

[blooming]

Hi blooming,

No, you're not a bad person, but you did, intentionally or not bring up a touchy topic and seem to have initiated a fight. Sorry to tell ya that!  

I think it is really important to take a lot of care in what we say. And I'm not talking from any high horse here, my SO can be very difficult and I haven't helped matters by telling him that "he treats me worse than all the other people I've ever met combined." Etc. Ouch!

But yes, you can use some tools to work on your way of speaking. It takes discipline, a willingness to make mistakes, and keep trying for you - for your own dignity.

I know it bugged ya, but trust that the is his own person and if he didn't like going to a certain place and now does, well, what difference does it really make? Gripe about it us here or with your other friends if need be, but bringing it up to him  is not worth it in my opinion.

with compassion, pearl.

Hi pearls!

Did you read the conversation? The fact that I brought that up didn't initiate the fight at all. He didn't really have a problem with that. What initiated the fight was the fact that I couldn't meet up that night because I was busy. That brought up the touchy topic of him always thinking I didn't have enough time for him and that it was always about me and I wasn't there enough for him. And that he thought that I should've been there for him the past 2 months, even though we were broken up.

What could I have done to steer the conversation to safer waters? Do you have any advice on tools I could've used? I tried, in the last message I sent, to use validation. It's just hard to use tools when someone's attacking you so personally.

What should I do know? We haven't talked since this conversation.

Any idea on what might be going on in his head?

[pearlsw]

Hi blooming,

Glad you are here! Happy to take another read and revise my opinion if necessary!

Be back shortly... .

warmly, pearl.

[pearlsw]

Me: Hey! I have singing class tonight and afterwards I'm going to the movies with Friend
Me: I could do tomorrow during the daytime, or saturday
Me: And do you mean you really went there? Weird  
Me: I don't really go to Rowing Association anymore

Ex: Saddddd, who is Friend anyway?
Ex: I can't on any of those days
Ex: Yes all my friends were there

Me: My housemate
Me: Also not on saturday? I could also do friday morning.
Me: I didn't really expect you to ever go to Rowing Association again, after all you said about it  
Me: Are you even allowed to come, since you're not a member anymore?

Ex: I always have classes during the day
Ex: And of course I'm allowed, I even got a free ticket
Ex: But all my friends were there so I had a good time

Me: But on saturday you don't have classes right?
Me: And that sounds good
Me: Glad you had a nice time

Ex: I have to study all day on saturday
Ex: Yes, but you weren't there, loser (I think that was meant in a funny way)

Me: If we had still been together you probably wouldn't have liked it if I went. Because all the people there are awful, remember?
Me: My first free night is Monday. But I'd prefer to meet during the day time. Oh well

Ex: Yeah it was a very sad business. Lots of pitiful people
Ex: Fine, then we don't meet

Me: Yeah I thought so
Me: And sorry, I just have a lot of stuff this week, concert tomorrow, friday work and saturday a family bbq

Ex: No it's fine
Ex: It's like it always was right? So nothing has changed
Ex: I'll see you at the festival (we're both going to the same festival next weekend)

Okay, read it again. It does look to me like you started this issue. Basically it looks like you brought up an old issue between you that was perhaps not resolved, or you felt like he was a hypocrite, but still, it was not something necessary to rehash I think. If he wants to go to the association or not go, it really isn't for you to call him out over it. Just my opinion.

I think you should have not shared an opinion about his goings on at the association. You can be surprised or not, but talking to him as if he is not allowed to be there seems a step too far. It invites him to be defensive. Your words put him on the defensive. And for what? Once he feels a need to defend himself, voila, you have an argument.

The conversation should have just focused on one thing. When can we meet? The other stuff going on here is opening up old wounds from the relationship. There are a lot of hurt feelings here, on both sides, but yours perhaps even more so.

wishing you the best, pearl.

[blooming]

Okay, read it again. It does look to me like you started this issue. Basically it looks like you brought up an old issue between you that was perhaps not resolved, or you felt like he was a hypocrite, but still, it was not something necessary to rehash I think. If he wants to go to the association or not go, it really isn't for you to call him out over it. Just my opinion.

I think you should have not shared an opinion about his goings on at the association. You can be surprised or not, but talking to him as if he is not allowed to be there seems a step too far. It invites him to be defensive. Your words put him on the defensive. And for what? Once he feels a need to defend himself, voila, you have an argument.

The conversation should have just focused on one thing. When can we meet? The other stuff going on here is opening up old wounds from the relationship. There are a lot of hurt feelings here, on both sides, but yours perhaps even more so.

wishing you the best, pearl.

Thank you for sharing your opinion! When I read it I don't think that's really the case. All the answers he gave regarding the rowing association weren't defensive or mean at all. Only when it got to that I couldn't meet up did he get angry.

You're right that I shouldn't have brought it up. It's just that he has literally ruined my experience there. He has been the cause of me losing a lot of friends there and missing out on a lot of great opportunities, because he hated that place. And now he goes there like there's nothing going on and brings it up to me like it wouldn't be an issue for me. He shouldn't have had to tell me that he was there. But he did. Because he knew it would hurt me knowing that.

Thank you for your opinion. I'll try for the next time to not bring any of that up. But I really think it's not the biggest issue here. I think the biggest issue is the rest of the conversation. That's where all the hurting and blaming is going on.

Should I send him an apology for bringing up the stuff about the rowing association? I don't want things between us to be like this.

[pearlsw]

Hi blooming,

That is just what I see, others may see it differently. Hopefully more people will drop by and put their eyes on it.  

I am not saying you can never bring up a tough topic with your ex, but it does matter how one does it. In this case he likely felt defensive, as I read it.

I have no idea about tone. I tried to read this to myself in an argumentative tone once and then in a more friendly, understanding one. Isn't it right after this that he says "fine, then we don't meet."

So, would you say that you need some closure with him about the relationship? You are trying to be just friends?

take care, pearl.

[blooming]

Hi blooming,

That is just what I see, others may see it differently. Hopefully more people will drop by and put their eyes on it. 

I am not saying you can never bring up a tough topic with your ex, but it does matter how one does it. In this case he likely felt defensive, as I read it.

I have no idea about tone. I tried to read this to myself in an argumentative tone once and then in a more friendly, understanding one. Isn't right after this that he says "fine, then we don't meet."

So, would you say that you need some closure with him about the relationship? You are trying to be just friends?

take care, pearl.

The "fine, then we don't meet" was because I said that next evening I'm free is monday evening and that I'd rather meet during the day (that's my boundary, because I know that if we meet at night he will definitely try to get me to sleep with him). That was when he got really defenisive. Because of that comment. Not because of the rowing association comments, I think.

Yes, I'd like to be friends and we've been through a lot these past few weeks and said a lot to eachother (see my topic about him trying to lure me in again), so I think it might be good to see eachother face to face and to talk it through, because talking via WhatsApp is difficult. It's easy to be misunderstood. I'm not sure if he can be friends though. He says he wants to, but then he also keeps bringing the conversation to a sexual topic and has made it very clear that he would love to sleep with me again and doesn't understand why I don't want to.

[pearlsw]

I notice too that is is a problem with texting... .you often have layered, or multiple conversations going on at the same time!

I also appreciate that this is a translation and that could affect the reading as well!

~pearl.

[spero]

Hi there blooming,

How are you feeling now? I know its just a few hours ago that things happened
Sorry that you're going through another round of this, i'd like to join pearlsw and just hear you out ya?

I'm going to take some time to read the conversation above, but first i think you need a big hug. so here's one  .

Takeheart,
Spero.

[blooming]

Hi there blooming,

How are you feeling now? I know its just a few hours ago that things happened
Sorry that you're going through another round of this, i'd like to join pearlsw and just hear you out ya?

I'm going to take some time to read the conversation above, but first i think you need a big hug. so here's one  .

Takeheart,
Spero.

Hi spero!

I'm not doing very well. Haven't slept tonight. I keep thinking about all the things I've done wrong (in the relationship).

Looking forward to hearing your opinion on the conversation.

Love,
Blooming

[Cromwell]

Hi Blooming

there was a lot of good clues in that dialogue, it confirms more to me that you are dealing with a very selfish person who only wants you around to deal with his needs.

There was also some fact distortion on his part and I see what you did by stating the facts and I notice from that point he couldnt handle the conversation further.

What I notice though is this feeling of guilt you have for stating your views even when they are valid. That he has made you feel "guilty" for something that doesnt make any sense except in his distortions.

The truth and nothing less is what is needed for your own emotional well being, you did well to not let him twist the facts and please keep doing this in future, there is nothing to be guilty of doing so.

He is emotionally manipulative, arrogant and is jealous that you have a life besides placing him in the middle of it so that once it revolves solely around him, he can then control you and if you werent already hurt enough already, it will be even easier to do at that point, when it suits him to.

I think you coped well Blooming. What exactly is it that you want to achieve long term with this though?

[spero]

Hi there blooming,

Thank you for your patience. I've thought about your situation so please see my responses below.
Have you also managed to get a little more sleep in between this time?

I regret sending that message, because I take all the blame on me in it and he probably now thinks that he didn't do anything wrong and that he was in the right by acting like he did. We haven't been in contact since. I just don't understand him anymore.

Blooming, i would like to say that you've responded the best you could in this situation. I sincerely think that you did well standing your ground... .Unfortunately, it seems that he is unable to respect your boundaries. Therefore, when you took your stand, and rightfully so. This would be an inevitable outcome dear blooming. You're not to be blamed. Infact, i would applaud for taking this baby step toward, self-respect and self love.

Blooming, i honestly think that it is really difficult and impossible to completely figure out what is going on in his head. I'd even say with a good measure of certainty he doesn't know what he is thinking either. His worldview and "perceived reality" is really a construct of his feelings - He simply twists the facts to justify how he feels. Blooming, sometimes we want to find a reason... .to blame ourselves, because right now it seems that your mind is making an attempt to make sense of the situation.

Its easy to deconstruct the situation objectively and logically, and i believe you know the facts for yourself. Its usually the heart, well your heart that needs a break, to catch up. Blooming, i'm going to be a little more direct here okay? You need to want to get better, and its going to take time to acknowledge what has happened to you, and it shouldn't have. Its okay to feel hurt, and its okay to be patient and give yourself time to heal. But, as long as you allow him to keep coming back to you, you'll unfortunately get thrown back into questioning your own identity and self-worth. We're here for you as a community, but this is a choice only you can make. That, if you want to get better, you'll first have to stop making things worse for yourself.

Blooming, i'm neither angry, nor upset, nor am i shaking my head in disappointment. I am genuinely concerned about how every-time he contacts you, and because of your kind nature, you allow yourself to be "sucked in" again. I am curious at this point, if you're putting his needs, before yours? From your previous posts there is "consistency" in his inconsistent behaviour. In this context, I've seen parts where he sounds passive aggressive, or he simply reads too much into what you're saying, that becomes a "trigger" for him, more so when he has split you black.

Am I really such a bad person? Do you have advice on how to handle conversations like this better in the future? It hurts so much being split black.

Blooming, you're not a bad person. And i want to know, you're probably a very gentle and very giving person. Unfortunately, he has used that to supply his needs. I've looked at your past threads and his behaviours seem consistently self-centered whether consciously or unconsciously, he seems to be only able to focus only on his own needs.

His arguments about you not being strong enough, or if you've become stronger and healthier, therefore means that you should be able to take whatever he throws at you now, is a form of covert emotional abuse. While i was previously hesitant to make such a statement, i am rather inclined now to present that clearly to you. It really is the kind of logic i can't wrap my logical mind around. For example, "To understand the extent of healthy you are, you should expose yourself to strongest most deadly viruses and make a gamble if you come out alive." No sound person would attempt that, if someone does, that person is either, foolish, or simply a masochist.

I am concerned that he is trying to convince you into believing that it is okay, "you're stronger now, so therefore you can take the crap im throwing at you". That is almost subliminal programming/conditioning to get you to accept his "mis-deeds" and condone his misbehaviours. It really doesn't matter if he does this consciously, or subconsciouly, he is simply motivated to get "supply/attention" from you. But blooming you also have the power to stop it. I know you feel powerless and i know he is your first boyfriend.

But this is about as factual and concrete as i'd put the situation. I know its not easy blooming. My uBPDexGF was my first too. I am still struggling with missing her though its been about half a year. I've been full NC, but it isn't easy. But more than that, this situation shows you, what you'd accept and what you'd deem unacceptable as to how a person treats you. Every person wants to be needed and to be treasured, held, loved, respected. It's perfectly understandable. Blooming, like i said, i am concerned about your well-being. And there are certain decisions that you probably need to give yourself "permission". I know it sounds scary, but being a pacifist as you've mentioned in a previous thread doesn't mean that one doesn't put him/her self out of harms way. It just means that you take a non retaliative but firm stance with your boundaries. And unfortunately if you allow your boundaries to get cross time and over again, you'll naturally feel upset and even violated. Perhaps even angry at yourself for not standing up for yourself. At least, in my personal experience, i knew i felt violated, and it was not a good feeling to remember. 

These are my thoughts so far. We're here to listen and to support you ya.
Hang in there blooming.

Takecare,
Spero.

[blooming]

Dear Cromwell and spero,

I'm sorry for not responding to you sooner. I will do so in the morning. I have read your comments and they have helped me a lot, but I have been struggling too much the past days to be able to find the energy to reply.

Ex and I haven't been in contact since this conversation. This weekend there's a music festival we're both going to. I don't know what to do. Should I send him a message, asking how he is? I just don't want the mood between us to be like this, especially because we'll probably bump into eachother this weekend. But if I send him a message then I give in to him even more. I don't know what to do.

What do the people here advise?

[spero]

Hey there blooming,

Dear Cromwell and spero,

I'm sorry for not responding to you sooner. I will do so in the morning. I have read your comments and they have helped me a lot, but I have been struggling too much the past days to be able to find the energy to reply.

It is good to hear from you. Don't worry too much about responding. You can do so at your own pace. I'm sorry that you must be feeling very drained both physically and mentally from all that is happening with this and perhaps other situations. I also hope that in the midst of what is happening, you have at least been able to practise some self-care and self-compassion.

Ex and I haven't been in contact since this conversation. This weekend there's a music festival we're both going to. I don't know what to do. Should I send him a message, asking how he is? I just don't want the mood between us to be like this, especially because we'll probably bump into eachother this weekend. But if I send him a message then I give in to him even more. I don't know what to do.

I suppose blooming, if I may, these are my thoughts. About the festival you are going to, you don't owe him anything to send him a message to inform him of what goes on with your life. I'm going to be just a little firm on this. If you do bump into him at the festival and he gets upset because he saw you, 'he has every right to excuse himself from the concert', you don't need his permission to be there, nor should you allow 'how he feels, or what if he gets angry, or what if he reacts' be a consideration for something you want to do for yourself. It is very plainly, not his business nor his concern.

Blooming, in other words, dear blooming, you don't need to live a life as if he is part of it right now. I am actually concerned that you should be thinking like this just because you want to go to a festival. If he gets upset, when you bump into him at the concert, you should just tell him, you do not need his approval to be there. There might be something deeper here, which you may need to walk through with a therapist, to 'unlearn' and 'relearn' some thought processes.

Blooming, i'm sure you're a kind and considerate person, and perhaps part of you is wanting to be considerate. I'm not in anyway trying to fault you. But you know, one should only be considerate in most reasonable situations. Sure we'd encounter unreasonable situations, but having to seem like 'needing his approval, to be at a concert, can be a kind of mental conditioning, that itself blooming, continues to enable him to have 'control' over you. And you don't need to go there.

Blooming, i'm saying this from my heart and really with genuine care. I highly doubt he would change his reactions, and sometimes the only way to 'better' the situation for yourself is to continue holding firm to your principles and boundaries, and i know its a struggle because of emotions invested, and you perhaps do care for him. But in caring for him, and even perhaps even perpetuating such enabling behavior will not help him become a better person. It would infact just reinforce the fact that he can do whatever he wants with you and he can get away with it, and unforuntately blooming, its really gonna hurt you. And, its hard to see you get hurt again.

But blooming, at the end of the day the decisions are still yours to make. I'm just laying down the facts, the general scenario and the repercussions of the actions or choice you may take and how it would play out and affect you. As i've mentioned again, you don't need to respond immediate and you certainly dont need to feel pressured to respond.

Takecare, i hope the best for you.

Spero.