Separated 9 mths and co-parenting, tried re-dating, is there hope?

[1hopefulhuman]

Hi friends! 

My BP+Narc partner of 8 years, father of our 7 year old son, abruptly ended our relationship last Aug 2017. He "blamed" me hard for a laundry list of things about me that were "wrong". Our community was shocked and thought he was having a mid-life crisis. 

In March 2018, we re-connected romantically and it's been a dramatic rollercoaster of back and forth fear of abandonment, enmeshment and raging jealousy of dates with other men and women from both of us. I need help understanding 1) what level of commitment from me is healthy and/or reasonable and 2) is there hope romanticly or should I let go and just learn to co-parent?

My recent individual therapy has made his condition and my own obvious; I'm an adult child of an alcholic co-dependent. His odd behavior got worse and worse as the years went by. We did couples therapy on and off here and there for 5 years, worked like a band-aid for a week or two. The last session was after him leaving and he RAGED at our therpaist, they almost called police.

He now refuses to see a threapist and waivers between saying "there is nothing wrong with me" to "I know I have issues, I'm not ready to see a therapist, I'm doing yoga twice a week and exercising". I gave a boundary that if he wanted back with me he needed to see a therapist which he agreed and even found a person - but never went through with it and also would not go alone he wanted it to be about "us" not him.

It's obvious we have deep feelings for each other but I'm not clear if that's our just our personality issues attracting each other, the 9 years of memories and parenting together, or a fantasy of what he (we, our family) could be if he got help.  Everyone, even our therapist is telling me "I'm too good for him, move on, let go, he's broken, he's abusive, you deserve better". All probably true but I'm addicted to the fantasy of him getting better and having our little family back, traveling together enjoying life! Also I panic thinking of him with another woman and my son playing family. I have a lot of fear of "what is he going to do next... .".  I'm not sure I understand what healthy love is anymore. Or how to be a good human to the father of my son while taking care of myself. I know he still loves me deeply but I'm definately his target - does that make sense? I'm the love of his life and the bane of existence.

I appreciate the time anyone has given to my post xo

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[pearlsw]

Hi friends!  

I'm the love of his life and the bane of existence.

I appreciate the time anyone has given to my post xo

Hi 1hopefulhuman,



These kinds of relationships are indeed challenging and confusing. I am torn at times between trying to give it my all, or throw in the towel.

I can related a lot to the sentence you wrote that I quoted above. Being loved/hated has taken a huge toll on me.

Do you have much support while going through this? I try to remind myself that even a therapist who saw someone for an hour a week with such issues would need support, so of course I need it too!

Have you tried any of the communication tools yet? How long have realized he has these issues?

with compassion, pearl.

[RolandOfEld]

Hi 1hopefulhuman and let me join pearlsw in welcoming you!

It's great that you acknowledge your own side of the issues and you are very intentional in terms of how you have set your goals in this thread. I think you are quite ahead of the game. There is hope, believe me.

I am in exactly the same boat as you in almost every respect. I love my BPD wife and partner of 11 years, and we have two young children, and she is making first overtures towards treatment. But I am deeply conflicted about whether this relationship can move forward even if she makes a full recovery.

These questions will likely take you some time to answer, unless you enter a situation into which you fear for the safety of you or your children. Before making your decision, it might be good to have a plan in place for the separation outcome, e.g. childcare, finances, legal support etc.

I also think building a support network is vital. May I ask if anyone close to you is aware of the situation, beyond the belief he had a mid life crisis? Have you opened up to any friends or family?

~ROE  

[1hopefulhuman]

I am torn at times between trying to give it my all, or throw in the towel. I can related a lot to the sentence you wrote that I quoted above. Being loved/hated has taken a huge toll on me.

Do you have much support while going through this?

Have you tried any of the communication tools yet? How long have realized he has these issues?

Hi Pearl, thank you for your support!

I'm sorry to hear that you have experienced the feeling of being loved/hated. It's odd because I find myself feeling the same way about my BPD ex - I also love/hate him... .and I see that sometimes I pick up his behavior and give it back to him. Yuck! I can be very reactive. I hope I'm not BPD.

I have a therpaist and an incredible community of support.

However I have not really tried communication tools yet, since I am just now hip to his condition (past two weeks). My therapist thought he was a some sort of b cluster narcissist since the break-up. Last week I wrote him a note 'validating' how he must feel and sharing my own feelings. He didnt respond.

Before that, he had behaved and spoken pretty cruel things and I lashed out on him two weeks ago - so now hes distancing himself (I HATE when he does this tactic!) hes closed off and wont share any feelings, does not want to know my feelings. He's a runner - he always runs away from emotions. hes committed to this act and does it cold heartedly. I could be begging him to stop and please talk with me and he leaves with a mean mimicking smirk.

Today when I picked up my son at his house I got so triggered just seeing him I balled in front of him - ugh. I'm so embarrassed and all it did was scare him and he wanted me to go away.

I knew something was off with him 8 years ago when I told him I was pregnant his first words were "Oh no my trip to Africa!"It was a planned pregnancy too.

[1hopefulhuman]

Hi 1hopefulhuman and let me join pearlsw in welcoming you!

... .and she is making first overtures towards treatment. But I am deeply conflicted about whether this relationship can move forward even if she makes a full recovery.

... .it might be good to have a plan in place for the separation outcome

... .May I ask if anyone close to you is aware of the situation, beyond the belief he had a mid life crisis? Have you opened up to any friends or family?

~ROE  

Hi Roe! Thank you for welcoming me to the community.

May I ask, what type of steps has your wife taken to get help? How long ago? It does seem like a long path to recovery minimum 2 years of consistent help right?

My BPD partner ended the relationship and moved out last August - boom - I came home from a trip with my son and he had already made arrangements to house-sit in the neighborhood. He now has a place which is a 10 min walk from our old home. so we are already separated, all of his things are out of the house.

Yes, all my immediate family and friends are aware of his abusive behavior, and watched how its gotten worse (why is that?) and that's a personality disorder.

I think i am in the stage of accepting this relationship is over. he refuses help and he is horrific when triggered. its not physical abuse, its emotional and verbal... .one of his last cruel words i cant get out of my head "you hold a grudge because I left you last year, get over yourself"... .this is someone who used to love me... .he took me out in March and declared he made a mistake leaving me... .I just dont get it. I'm so scared and hurt and i need to take care of myself. the confusion is astonishing...

[pearlsw]

Hi again 1hopefulhuman,

Got it. Yep. I have to admit, in the face of being love/hated, I've found myself in some pretty humiliating situations. It was so overwhelming at times, his mood swings and extreme demands, that I know I found myself just desperate for any kind of relief from him. Whew!

Were there a lot of red flags you missed along the way? (Aside from this pregnancy response) I know I did! Whew, did I misread and minimize stuff. I had way too much confidence in myself I must say!

take care, pearl.

[1hopefulhuman]

Were there a lot of red flags you missed along the way? (Aside from this pregnancy response) I know I did! Whew, did I misread and minimize stuff. I had way too much confidence in myself I must say!

As I look back yes lots of red flags:

He was very jealous of all other men / male friends in a strange way and he would criticize all my friends and family (I'm guessing to isolate me?)... .eventually I found that he would criticize everyone we knew - not one person matches his expectation. Even our son, which is territory that is starting to scare me as he gets older (7 yrs old now).

When our son was born, he was very jealous of my time spent with our son and not him and he would LASH out at me. Everyone else could see I was just an amazing loving mom.

Then we had moments every 3 months or so where he woudl sit me down and lecture me on what was wrong with me... .afterward he felt great and 'close/intimate with me' and I felt confused ... .this slowly damaged my own sense of self-worth. By the time he left last year I didn't know who I was anymore. I used to be a badass amazing person ... .I was left wondering where is that person. he had convinced me I was broken and worthless.

As years went by, it got worse - why is that? By the time last summer rolled around he was full fledged out of his mind. HIS reality was bizarre and far from the facts... .

[RolandOfEld]

Hi 1hopefulhuman, sorry for the slow response since I've been on leave and away from the PC.

My wife has been seeing a psychiatrist I introduced her to, the doctor in charge of our hospital's DBT program. I am seeing the doctor as well. We are taking this a couples problem. It makes her more comfortable if I go to. Just the fact that my wife is willing to go is a big step. She is also taking the medicine the doctor prescribed. The doctor, who told me my wife's emotional dysregulation is quite severe, also arranged for a social worker to get in touch with us. All baby steps at this point, but I think that's how it has to go. Two years is the number I've heard as well.

Yes the emotional / verbal abuse is somehow worse than the hitting, the stealing, the property destruction. When I think back on all my deepest wounds it was those horrible words, and the interfering with my family relationships.

The confusion runs so deep because it runs into the heart, which doesn't understand anything about BPD. We can intellectually convince ourselves someone is sick, but our feelings don't get it. Our feelings just see the person we love and can't understand why they would suddenly do these things after just telling us they love us. I'm so sorry for all you've had to go through. I'm sure being separated doesn't make it that much easier.

What do you think you can do to take care of yourself?

~ROE

[1hopefulhuman]

My wife has been seeing a psychiatrist I introduced her to, the doctor in charge of our hospital's DBT program. I am seeing the doctor as well. We are taking this a couples problem. It makes her more comfortable if I go to. Just the fact that my wife is willing to go is a big step. She is also taking the medicine the doctor prescribed. The doctor, who told me my wife's emotional dysregulation is quite severe, also arranged for a social worker to get in touch with us. All baby steps at this point, but I think that's how it has to go. Two years is the number I've heard as well.

What do you think you can do to take care of yourself?

Wow, Roe - I really commend your commitment to your family and your wife's mental health. If my ex was willing to put in the work I would do that same thing, it's really quite beautiful and brave - for both of you. The benefits of a healthy mother for your children is HUGE long term.  I can also understand empathize with the challenging 2+ years you have ahead of you... .although hopefully you will gradually see a healthy progression which will help keep you in the game.  Is your wife so ill so you can not see the romantic love for her anymore? Are you in a place of doing what's best for the family, doing what's best as a good human / husband that vowed to take care of one another? Or do you still see that wonderful person you fell in love with time to time?

Being separated does two things: 1) It makes day to day life easier in that I don't have to 'walk on eggshells' every waking moment. 2) It can heighten the drama when I do interact with my ex to levels higher than when we lived together.

Up until this week I have kept my heart open to the possibility of keeping the family together, but as of the past week I have come to the conclusion its over. (might have to take this to another thread at some point!)

I started a meditation last week based off the audio book "Love yourself like your life depends on it" - all you do is say "I love myself" over and over and over again in your head. It's made a big difference. Over the past few days I re-read all the hurtful texts between us from the past month and years and it's become extra crystal clear - I love myself! Why would I try hanging on to a man who has abused, abandoned and then keeps abusing me again? What am I doing?

This last round of abuse was some of the worst. In the heat of him thinking I slept with another friend of ours (I didn't of course) he got so angry he punished me by immediately booking a trip to Kauai with our son this summer, when I SPECIFICALLY told him a month ago to please not book a trip there this year as we have family memories and my heart is raw already from him leaving and the thought of them being there without me is very painful, especially since I can not afford to go there on my NEW single mom budget AND I'm a hula dancer. What the heck! Cruel!

The BPD relationship is soo strange! That they can abuse you so terribly for doing NOTHING! They imagine things in their head and wrong you for their imagination UGH!

It feels like I got a pet alligator, who's nature is to just snap at me and I keep trying to get close, hug it, pet it, roll around with it and prove to it we can live harmoniously and he doesn't have to eat me. Sometimes its docile and even cuddly, but its nature will always go back to its reptilian brain of: I'm gonna eat you. It just dumb and dangerous to have a pet like that, I'm just fooling myself.

If he was willing to take the steps your wife has, different story. But he won't go to therapy and the devaluing weighs more than the idealizing. Such a bummer, back in March he took me on a date and we felt like two teenagers in love. Underneath his BPD muck is a true soul-mate match, but I can't wrestle with an alligator in a dirty swamp anymore.

[Radcliff]

1hopefulhuman, welcome to bpdfamily!  You're getting some great support from pearlsw and RolandOfEld here.

I can very much understand how being an adult child of an alcoholic can factor into being with someone with BPD.  Are you attending Al-anon meetings?  You mentioned that you have a strong support system -- that is great to hear!

Separation is a time to build your strength, get yourself steady, and watch to see if he makes improvements.  Use the peace that you have to learn and grow, particularly with regards to your boundaries skills.  He can decide whether or not to get help.  He will determine whether his behaviors change.  You can't get back together and fix him.  I got deeply involved initially in setting up my wife's therapy immediately after our separation.  When she would demonstrate that she her reality was still distorted and she couldn't take responsibility for out-of-bounds behavior, in the first months I was very distraught.  Now, I've learned to better let go of things I can't control, and when I see those things I just note them as helpful information as I work through my feelings about the future of the relationship.

What kind of parenting schedule do you have between your husband and you for S7?

WW

[1hopefulhuman]

Hi Wentworth,

Apologies for the late response!  I appreciate you taking the time with yours. 

I am not attending Alon meetings but I see a therapist weekly and yes I have amazing group of friends who are supportive and not triangulating. I'm also reading books and listening to self help audio on my commute.

I've noticed how calm it feels to let go and yes its helping me regain strength. But I had not REALLY let go until 2 weeks ago. Before then I kept the 'what if' question in my head "what if he gets therapy? do I stay?" In someways its nice I don't have to make that decision and just be clear. It's also nice to ACCEPT him as his is and know I don't have to live with him every moment.  I have a choice to not engage with him if he's in a mood. The hardest part is remembering our nice moments, seeing him on his handsome days and knowing he will move on to someone else. That hurts. Even though I know the next person will eventually get hurt, heck the two brief dating encounters he had ended in cruel way (in my opinion) for the unlucky ladies. He lead them on hard and then just stopped communicating.

How long have you been making the decision to stay in the relationship while she seeks help? Are you getting help as well? What type of therapy is she doing? You sound like you have a clear healthy view of everything, it's seems like you are taking things day by day? Is she getting better?

Our parenting schedule is pretty great! He moved around the corner (he wants to be best friends ). I drive our son to school and he picks him up. When I get home from work I either pick him up or he gets dropped off. Weekends we are super flexible depending on plans we have. We have a shared calendar on ical and plug in a night, day or weekend we want off. We also use it for things we need to do together like parent teacher conference. This works great now... .not sure how sustainable it will be when one of us starts seriously dating... .

[Radcliff]

We have been separated for about 8 months, after I filed for and received a restraining order that required her to move out.  Shortly afterward, she enrolled in a DBT program that includes a skills group meeting each week and two individual therapist appointments each week.   She is also in a 52-week batterer's program.  I'm seeing a therapist twice a week.  We have a heavy weight of a lot of domestic violence hanging over us, and have very different views on accountability.  We just started seeing a family therapist together because after 8 months we still haven't given the kids a coherent explanation about what is happening, and my two oldest teenage daughters have moved in with her.

That's fantastic that your coparenting arrangement is so harmonious.  That's wonderful for S7 if you can keep it up.  The tools you can learn on this board will be helpful.  Are you planning to divorce, or are you going to live with the current situation and mull things over for a while? 

You mentioned that you are reaching a point of acceptance that he is who he is and may not change.  I imagine this is easier with the new living situation.  Are there any other insights, or ways you've changed your behavior, that are making it easier to get along with him?

WW

[1hopefulhuman]

We have been separated for about 8 months, after I filed for and received a restraining order that required her to move out.  Shortly afterward, she enrolled in a DBT program that includes a skills group meeting each week and two individual therapist appointments each week.   She is also in a 52-week batterer's program.  I'm seeing a therapist twice a week.  We have a heavy weight of a lot of domestic violence hanging over us, and have very different views on accountability.  We just started seeing a family therapist together because after 8 months we still haven't given the kids a coherent explanation about what is happening, and my two oldest teenage daughters have moved in with her.

That's fantastic that your coparenting arrangement is so harmonious.  That's wonderful for S7 if you can keep it up.  The tools you can learn on this board will be helpful.  Are you planning to divorce, or are you going to live with the current situation and mull things over for a while? 

You mentioned that you are reaching a point of acceptance that he is who he is and may not change.  I imagine this is easier with the new living situation.  Are there any other insights, or ways you've changed your behavior, that are making it easier to get along with him?

WW

Hi Wentworth,

Oh dear, that must have taken quite a bit of courage to file a restraining order - I like the end result of serious therapy though (co-parenting etc) incredible she is going! I'm sorry you are going through such emotional turmoil. Therapy 2 days a week is wonderful, I've done it myself, but also intense. You will come through this a new person.  How does it make you feel with the teenage daughters living with her? Do you think they understand her illness? Tough for kids because they grow up with it. They could also be feeling the co-dependent need to take care of her. I know this as an adult child of an alcoholic. How many kids do you have? What doe the kids understand at this point?

My BPDxh and I never actually got married on paper. So when he ended the r/s there was nothing to file and the state of CA does not have a common marriage law. I'm not even sure what term to use? Separated? Divorced - he used the term broke-up (which I dis-like, sounds like a teen romance).

Emotionally it feels like we are mulling things over, but intellectually I think we both understand its over and we are both being present with day to day grief and moving on. My insights have changed greatly now that I have started reading BPD books, this website, but I'm still a beginner at communication tools. I see a T once a week.

I think the mental switch in my head that "I love myself" (even if i don't believe sometimes) has made the greatest difference in getting along with him! If he gets triggered toward me, I literally close my eyes take 20 steps away go deep within myself and say "I love myself, this is HIS problem, these are HIS emotions, I am good, I don't need him, I don't live with him" and then I either ignore his trigger or draw a calm boundary for him. But honestly because we don't live together there is not much time together to trigger one another. The adjustment of not being together does take time :/

[pearlsw]

Our parenting schedule is pretty great! He moved around the corner (he wants to be best friends ). I drive our son to school and he picks him up. When I get home from work I either pick him up or he gets dropped off. Weekends we are super flexible depending on plans we have. We have a shared calendar on ical and plug in a night, day or weekend we want off. We also use it for things we need to do together like parent teacher conference. This works great now... .not sure how sustainable it will be when one of us starts seriously dating... .

Hi 1hopefulhuman,

Sounds like some very positive developments here! How close do you think you are to dating again? How recovered do you feel after all this to be able to take such a step? Ready? Not ready?

warmly, pearl.

[1hopefulhuman]

How close do you think you are to dating again? How recovered do you feel after all this to be able to take such a step? Ready? Not ready?

Hi Pearlsw,

I'm not ready at ALL!  I could maybe go on some friendly meet ups, coffee or a drink with friends. I feel I'm am prepping to be ready if that makes sense. Every time I see my BPDxh I get emotionally triggered and that's pretty much daily with our son. I think I just need to keep focusing on thoughts that make me feel good, trusting I will have a healthy relationship next time around and doing the deep inner work  with my T on how I got to this place to begin with. I'm still climbing out of the dark hole but I see the light. 

4 mths after the separation I went on a few dates with a past lover and that was a nice boost to the ego, but he is a traveling artist and we both knew it was casual and light.

It's more my xh dating that concerns me a bit, he does not have the community support I do and gets lonely easily. The last woman he was with he started to see her every weekend, sharing with her his 'story' of his 'break-up'.  Ouch that hurt my heart, she was not very attractive, and I was worried he would start to involve my son. But when we got back together - he cold turkey stopped texting her, I even said to him "You might want to explain to her what's going on so her feelings are not hurt" his response was "She's a big girl, she can take care of herself" - mean.

[pearlsw]

It's more my xh dating that concerns me a bit, he does not have the community support I do and gets lonely easily.

Oh, I see, I see... .Hard to have to think about who he dates because of kid issues that bind you! Tough stuff!

How are you doing with your therapist on the question of what got you into this in the first place? Any ideas so far?

warmly, pearl.

[Radcliff]

That's fantastic that you have the support of a therapist.  It sounds like you've enjoyed the benefits of progress in establishing boundaries and not relying on him for your sense of security and happiness.  Good work!    Progress is not steady, but you'll continue to move along your path.

No, my daughters don't seem to understand her illness.  They may understand more then they appear to, but they have normalized a lot, and most of the abuse was invisible to them, so they feel the restraining order was overboard.  I am upset and concerned, but am reaching out to the girls however I can, and was able to cook them dinner last night, which was wonderful.

Are you in a position where child support would make sense?  Sometimes when we are in a relationship with a pwBPD we work so hard to keep the peace it can be hard to ask for things we should ask for.

WW