BPD Letter Not Yet Sent Input Appreciated

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

It was suggested to me I post my 'proposed' letter to my possible xBDF (well definite x) here for feedback.  You can if you wish view the full tome here  
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=325795.0

Upshot is girl pushed me for months to committed relationship, moment I did  cut and ran. BPD perhaps, but definite relationship issues, 35 and hadn't been in a committed real relationship for over ten years so my 'accepting' finally and her going overboard on what that meant (basically planned an entire future for us) could easily have freaked her out.

I jumped down her throat the moment she sat me down the next day to say 'you are a super guy but I don't want a relationship with you' given the hoops I'd had to jump through to ask her just that after being pressured to do so for ever. By jumping down her throat told her how messed up it was what she did, told her i knew she was about this when I met her, told her thanks for opening my heart to dating (I had been not available when we met) and I'm going to go date.

No reply to my surprise e.g. sorry I got terrified and ran I'm still crazy about you but I can't go through with this. Nothing. Which is what led me to research and end up a BPD (Discard).

I eventually sent her a non-blaming nice email about how I felt, wishing her the love and live she deserved, and telling her I'd always remember her for opening my hear to love again

Got back a sort of terse 'thank you for the nice note. hope you've been well' but that could be anything and knowing her she takes a long time to 'process'. At least she replied and again my email could be read as a good bye (it was) and a reiteration of thanks for opening my heart to dating I'm going to go date so perhaps she needed to decipher MY email too.

I did not reply though the door seemed sort of open. That was a month ago. With some distance and learning about the terrible burden that BPD live under in addition to the devastation they cause, it occurred to me in my own anger and pain I struck out before seeing if in fact she just needed support/understanding and in her terror i only made things worse. I don't want to do that as I really cared for her. Not sure i ever 'loved' her as I'd made sure to not open myself up to that until the end but i might have but I damn sure cared for her.

So judge my letter on this; I am not looking for the best way to 'reconnect' I don't know if i even want to. I do want to reach out and do what i should have done that day and provide some caring and support to a woman I cared for and maybe needed my protection not my wrath. I am of course reading the best intentions and character into her and could be way off but if so all a nice letter does is make a monster sneer and who cares about that? If it helps a girl I cared for feel better great, and if it places some seed that she or I may want to cultivate one day even better. No way either of us will know until we both heal I think.

Also I tend to be romantic/expressive so forgive the syrupy nature of it. This was indeed prompted by my re-reading The Little Prince which I do turn to for wisdom every few years. The 'tale of claws' in the passage is a direct reference to a defining conversation we had that started the entire tailspin, and one designed at the time to 'make you see we should be together' which while it didn't immediately backfire ultimately did.

****

Hi **

I just re-read one of my favorite all time books, The Little Prince, which my mother first read to me when I was five and I turn to at various points in my life when I need to find its wisdom, which changes each time you read it.

When I came to one of my favorite passages it seemed like it could have been written about or for "us":

"I ought not to have listened to her. One never ought to listen to the flowers. One should simply look at them and breathe their fragrance. Mine perfumed all my planet. But I did not know how to take pleasure in all her grace. This tale of claws, which disturbed me so much, should only have filled my heart with tenderness and pity. The fact is that I did not know how to understand anything! I ought to have judged by deeds and not by words. She cast her fragrance and her radiance over me. I ought never to have run away from her . . . I ought to have guessed all the affection that lay behind her poor little strategems. Flowers are so inconsistent! But I was too young to know how to love her .”

I'm not reaching out her for 'reconciliation' as I don't even know if we had anything to reconcile or what it meant if we did and some doors or windows don't stay open forever anyway and it has been... .forever. I'm writing because, while I don't really know anything about what happened at "the end" I think it may just be possible I let you down when you needed me most and lashed out when what you needed was my strength and understanding. If that is so, I don't know if you wonder or care what I think about you or if I cared about you but I want you to know that the only truth of you for me that really matters now is that you came into my life like a rose when I needed one the most and cast your radiance over me and perfumed all my planet. I count my birthday night and the night we cooked as two of my most special.  For whatever it may or may not be worth to you now or ever I thought you should know since I clearly was not strong enough in myself at the time to share it when it might have mattered to your life and happiness both of which mattered to me more than I knew. There is no need to acknowledge or reply to this letter and I won't send another, just understand I'm writing because I realize with some distance and after reading that passage that you struggle with more demons and "claws" and darkness than I could possibly have imagined, as I realize you tried to tell me many times, and my hope is that sharing with "my rose" what you brought to me I might shine some radiance and perfume your planet as well.

With affection... .

[1stTimer]

It was suggested to me I post my 'proposed' letter to my possible xBDF (well definite x) here for feedback.  You can if you wish view the full tome here  
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=325795.0

Upshot is girl pushed me for months to committed relationship, moment I did  cut and ran. BPD perhaps, but definite relationship issues, 35 and hadn't been in a committed real relationship for over ten years so my 'accepting' finally and her going overboard on what that meant (basically planned an entire future for us) could easily have freaked her out.

I jumped down her throat the moment she sat me down the next day to say 'you are a super guy but I don't want a relationship with you' given the hoops I'd had to jump through to ask her just that after being pressured to do so for ever. By jumping down her throat told her how messed up it was what she did, told her i knew she was about this when I met her, told her thanks for opening my heart to dating (I had been not available when we met) and I'm going to go date.

No reply to my surprise e.g. sorry I got terrified and ran I'm still crazy about you but I can't go through with this. Nothing. Which is what led me to research and end up a BPD (Discard).

I eventually sent her a non-blaming nice email about how I felt, wishing her the love and live she deserved, and telling her I'd always remember her for opening my hear to love again

Got back a sort of terse 'thank you for the nice note. hope you've been well' but that could be anything and knowing her she takes a long time to 'process'. At least she replied and again my email could be read as a good bye (it was) and a reiteration of thanks for opening my heart to dating I'm going to go date so perhaps she needed to decipher MY email too.

I did not reply though the door seemed sort of open. That was a month ago. With some distance and learning about the terrible burden that BPD live under in addition to the devastation they cause, it occurred to me in my own anger and pain I struck out before seeing if in fact she just needed support/understanding and in her terror i only made things worse. I don't want to do that as I really cared for her. Not sure i ever 'loved' her as I'd made sure to not open myself up to that until the end but i might have but I damn sure cared for her.

So judge my letter on this; I am not looking for the best way to 'reconnect' I don't know if i even want to. I do want to reach out and do what i should have done that day and provide some caring and support to a woman I cared for and maybe needed my protection not my wrath. I am of course reading the best intentions and character into her and could be way off but if so all a nice letter does is make a monster sneer and who cares about that? If it helps a girl I cared for feel better great, and if it places some seed that she or I may want to cultivate one day even better. No way either of us will know until we both heal I think.

Also I tend to be romantic/expressive so forgive the syrupy nature of it. This was indeed prompted by my re-reading The Little Prince which I do turn to for wisdom every few years. The 'tale of claws' in the passage is a direct reference to a defining conversation we had that started the entire tailspin, and one designed at the time to 'make you see we should be together' which while it didn't immediately backfire ultimately did.

****

Hi **

I just re-read one of my favorite all time books, The Little Prince, which my mother first read to me when I was five and I turn to at various points in my life when I need to find its wisdom, which changes each time you read it.

When I came to one of my favorite passages it seemed like it could have been written about or for "us":

"I ought not to have listened to her. One never ought to listen to the flowers. One should simply look at them and breathe their fragrance. Mine perfumed all my planet. But I did not know how to take pleasure in all her grace. This tale of claws, which disturbed me so much, should only have filled my heart with tenderness and pity. The fact is that I did not know how to understand anything! I ought to have judged by deeds and not by words. She cast her fragrance and her radiance over me. I ought never to have run away from her . . . I ought to have guessed all the affection that lay behind her poor little strategems. Flowers are so inconsistent! But I was too young to know how to love her .”

I'm not reaching out her for 'reconciliation' as I don't even know if we had anything to reconcile or what it meant if we did and some doors or windows don't stay open forever anyway and it has been... .forever. I'm writing because, while I don't really know anything about what happened at "the end" I think it may just be possible I let you down when you needed me most and lashed out when what you needed was my strength and understanding. If that is so, I don't know if you wonder or care what I think about you or if I cared about you but I want you to know that the only truth of you for me that really matters now is that you came into my life like a rose when I needed one the most and cast your radiance over me and perfumed all my planet. I count my birthday night and the night we cooked as two of my most special.  For whatever it may or may not be worth to you now or ever I thought you should know since I clearly was not strong enough in myself at the time to share it when it might have mattered to your life and happiness both of which mattered to me more than I knew. There is no need to acknowledge or reply to this letter and I won't send another, just understand I'm writing because I realize with some distance and after reading that passage that you struggle with more demons and "claws" and darkness than I could possibly have imagined, as I realize you tried to tell me many times, and my hope is that sharing with "my rose" what you brought to me I might shine some radiance and perfume your planet as well.

With affection... .

[once removed]

So judge my letter on this; I am not looking for the best way to 'reconnect' I don't know if i even want to. I do want to reach out and do what i should have done that day and provide some caring and support to a woman I cared for and maybe needed my protection not my wrath.

okay. with this in mind as your sole motivation... .

the letter is lovely and heartfelt and spells out your piece. i might pull a couple of lines out like the part about her demons. that could make her feel analyzed; ive seen similar letters sent, and how the intent behind them is actually perceived can get pretty unpredictable.

apart from that, if youre not interested in reconnecting, if you have no expectation of a reply, if you want to say your piece and make her feel good about it, it looks fine to me.

[1stTimer]

Hmm I get the part on her demons but that is sort of the point of the email; that I realized she has many things she was dealing with. She has told me as much, telling me about her (very expensive) therapy and how there are many things about her I need to know.

In any event not even sure I want to send it. Easy to sit her and believe she was hurt by my reply and lack of 'support' but GD I walked through fire to give her everything she needed and owned stuff I didn't necessarily need to along the way. Easy to believe she is home, hurt, hoping I'll 'step up' but we all know that is not the fact and as I type this she is in someone else's arms not even remembering me. That is The Truth not my Poly Anna letter.

You say "if youre not interested in reconnecting, if you have no expectation of a reply," do you mean because you feel this would not result on reconnecting or reply? Am I just ignoring the reality here while I misquote the beauty of Saint-Exupéry to a woman who will never comprehend it?

I'm sitting now at the wine bar we met at, realizing if she wanted to she could show up any minute and find me, she could text me at any hour of the day or email me any day of the week, as she used to. And she has not. And I massage quotes from a childhoold novel pretending it changes reality: I'm alone on a forum she's home making love to the person she choose to which is not me.

okay. with this in mind as your sole motivation... .

the letter is lovely and heartfelt and spells out your piece. i might pull a couple of lines out like the part about her demons. that could make her feel analyzed; ive seen similar letters sent, and how the intent behind them is actually perceived can get pretty unpredictable.

apart from that, if youre not interested in reconnecting, if you have no expectation of a reply, if you want to say your piece and make her feel good about it, it looks fine to me.

[pearlsw]

Hi 1stTimer,

I thought the letter was lovely. You wanted us to read and analyze it in terms of what to say or not say in it?

I think once removed makes a fair point about not bringing up demons. How the letter could be received is worth considering... .

Ah, love letters, goodbye letters, and all the I don't know if I should send this stuff... .I tell ya... .if you have doubts about how a letter will be received, it is good to sit with those and consider not sending. Sometimes writing to ourselves, writing out what we are thinking, is enough. I think there is danger in sending a letter if there are expectations, so if you like, can we examine your expectations?

What are you hoping she'll say in return? What is a realistic response? Can you live with your heartfelt letter not being received the way you intend it?

with deep compassion, pearl.

[1stTimer]

Hi Pearl, thank you so much for taking the time to read and reply. I was considering taking it down.

I already sent one amazing letter and she not only did not deserve it, it I'd say grossly overstated my feelings for her specifically. I did so because I wanted to move on with the good stuff but also because I was missing the 'future' she corraled and spun just few weeks prior.  This letter is not deserved by anyone but a woman I loved with all my heart. Nothing about her or about how I felt about her deserves this kind of love.  Will it affect her? I am sure. Then what? She has power over me or wants to return and then what? She is either the same immature unfaitful BPD or she is not and I am still left with someone I did not love from the beginning.

yeah part of this is anger but part is the truth. I think in fact I am going to post 'the truth' letter in ':)eparting' and never send it to her because it would crush her.

Expectations if I do/did send? The same unrealistic one every one has with a letter like that "Oh my God what did I lose! Come back!"  Or at very least it gestates with her while she is with her abusive ex. And then one day... .But you know what? "One day" I won't even be available to her, heart, body or soul since I was not in the beginning. I held back for good reasons, my mind and body and soul knew. In fact one day when she took me for a walk in the park after I "ran" when I found stuff out and she told me "I just said those things because I want us to be in a relationship can you please start staying over and holding me in your arms" we could see the buildings on the park and she kept asking me to walk her to where i live and show her and i kept saying no. I treated it as a joke but my instincts were all firing 1000%; do not show this women your home, do not show her your heart. I knew.

So thank you for reading but you know when i re-read I find it quite beautiful myself and since I never held actual love for her and whatever pain she is from my reaction is fully deserved and more so I don't need to give the very best of me to soothe the very worst of her which she harmed ME with. Did I get a single text or email acknowledging what her 'fear' did to me, a word to soothe me, or a heartfelt reply to my first undeserved letter? Has she checked on me?

Right now all she knows is I walked out and left when she pulled her 'you're a great guy but I don't want a committed relationship' after making me crawl through hades and back to give her the committment SHE wanted and I said thanks for opening my heart I'll go date other women with the heart she opened, and even my 'nice note' concluded with thanking her for the gift of moving forward with an open heart. I will not buy in. I am the one who discarded her. Let her mull that over as her ex beats her butt red and demeans her right back into her $500 an hour therapists arms again or when she gets black out drunk with her other ex who body-slams her if she tries to leave before he wants her to.

Last word I'll say is an expert in BPD I talked to said that BPD-Women > Nice Men are particularly difficult for the men because the qualities the BPD is reflecting back at him which she wants are actually his qualities so he has no way of knowing what is happening. And she ends up doing what she always does, pushing away men who don't 'live up' to what she wanted except... .they do. Crazy huh.

Thank you again for letting me work this out here.

Hi 1stTimer,

I thought the letter was lovely. You wanted us to read and analyze it in terms of what to say or not say in it?

I think once removed makes a fair point about not bringing up demons. How the letter could be received is worth considering... .

Ah, love letters, goodbye letters, and all the I don't know if I should send this stuff... .I tell ya... .if you have doubts about how a letter will be received, it is good to sit with those and consider not sending. Sometimes writing to ourselves, writing out what we are thinking, is enough. I think there is danger in sending a letter if there are expectations, so if you like, can we examine your expectations?

What are hoping she'll say in return? What is a realistic response? Can you live with your heartfelt letter not being received the way you intend it?

with deep compassion, pearl.

[pearlsw]

Hi again 1stTimer,

I see! Oh yes, sometimes we post and then we notice we have changed. I hope it helped, and keeps helping, for you to get your feelings out about this, among people who are supportive and kind.

A lot of us have some pretty tough experiences around breakups- that's for sure!

May I follow up... .you say you did not love her from the beginning... .Do you mean you had doubts, suspicions, felt a need to hold back?

take care, pearl.

[1stTimer]

May I follow up... .you say you did not love her from the beginning... .Do you mean you had doubts, suspicions, felt a need to hold back?

Hmm no simply put she was interested I was not. She 'offered herself' to me after a date she pushed hard for and I declined because she wanted a committed relationship and I was not only not ready I did not want her. AND unlike the probably dozens of other men she did this too I did not "take advantage" of her as many of my friends suggested I do. To give you some idea of how hard that was i had not had sexual relations in a long time and this girl, decided to tell me about a sex toy she had just bought and asked me if I wanted to use it on her to which I replied 'perhaps one day'.

I did doubt her sincerity and the depth of her pursuit yes. Some if it was downright creepy. Even early on she'd text 'do you mind showing me where you live?' or 'when you are away maybe I can go introduce myself to your mother, she'd really like me I think". We were not dating or physical or anything then. Yeah I had doubts and suspisions. This is what I told her when I stormed out on her "I knew what you were about from the BEGINNING, I knew this is who you were, this is why I wouldn't date you".

Apart from that I was not particularly physically or emotionally attracted to her. She grew on me as we started to text and share our lives with each other and as it started to appear that her caring for me/my life was genuine and having not had the love/attention/support heck  TEXT of a woman in many many years (see my original post, 10-15 years of serious family/illness/business/finance issues non-stop) I grew attached. And treated her great (supportive, contributed greatly to her significant raise that changed her life, listened to her, etc(, just not the way she wanted; the whole courtship thing and held the relationship at arms length.

In other words, not a classic BPD with the successful love-bomb and the oh-my-God-my-soulmate.

The only reason I do forgive some of this is I did hold the relationship at arms lenght due to where i was in my life (trying to reestablish financial security and remove myself from toxic family situations I'd been stuck in since my father got sick years back) and I believe when I came around she could simply not believe it and put me through the ringer proving it and when she got it over-reacted (turned 'ok seems we are in a real relationship let;s run with it' to 'lets plan our entire futures together' and then freaked herself out. I don't know man :|

I'll tell you one reason I considered the letter; I've had amazing relationships with amazing women. The, as I like to call her, love of my life since 'ex' doesn't do her justice at all, ran from me after our 3rd date just before the Big One (best restaurant in town etc once we'd sort of danced around) by standing me up. I was crushed (in a way this never did, this was as close to love at first site as I ever had). She tracked me down, APOLOGIZED, told me she'd gotten out of an emotionally abusive relationship and was not ready. I said ok. I didn't push(unlike this current girl who just wanted what she wanted). This woman returned 1/2 a year later, she invited me to dinner, she handed me flowers and said "I am so sorry I was not ready for you then. I am now. If you would have me in your life I would love to be there". Goddamn.  When I told this new girl about this all she could say was 'that's crazy women don't buy men flowers'. I in fact spent a few weeks expecting her to remember the story and send flowers. Nada. No text. No flowers. No email. Different women. And when I stop trying to expect her to be 'normal' I'll be ok.

[amazinggrace]

I've spent 60 years learning these hard lessons now. My last PD relationship was worse than the first and now I'm with a normal girl who is kind, honest and caring. She's not personality disordered and it is all very easy. My experience as an old man is that giving the personality disordered anything written won't fix anything and just gives them ammunition to do you with.  It's always a bad mediation without our intended kind intentions coming to fruition. I'm sorry but going to that water well probably won't quench your thirst. Sharing your story with safe people will help you. I might be wrong and perhaps there are successful accounts of mutual healing with us and a PD. I just haven't ever seen it. It's so hard when we're in the middle of it and leaving especially with children but no contact "NC" is, in my opinion, the only solution. If you have children with her then, of course, you must get involved in minimal contact but, seriously, 30 years out from my children's mother and nothing has ever worked with her. She's still vicious and demonizing me with the children. Confrontation letter is something that I've wished for and sent but it never returned anything but more claims of her victimization and my harassment of her. The courts, attorneys, therapists and police will rarely ever it see it. I wouldn't give her anything written. For what it's worth.

[1stTimer]

Hi thank you for the reply and the benefit of your perspective. Sorry you went through all that, I didn't suffer anything like that and can't imagine. Mine was really a short period of time and I was not terribly (letter to the contrary) super vested in 'her' but never experienced BPD before and having it pulled from under me the moment I committed the way she wanted.

In any event if you read my later replies here I came to the exact conclusion. Mainly because she does not deserve that kind of love nor that kind of caring, nor in fact an apology for something horrendous she pulled which she owes ME one for.

I've spent 60 years learning these hard lessons now. My last PD relationship was worse than the first and now I'm with a normal girl who is kind, honest and caring. She's not personality disordered and it is all very easy. My experience as an old man is that giving the personality disordered anything written won't fix anything and just gives them ammunition to do you with.  It's always a bad mediation without our intended kind intentions coming to fruition. I'm sorry but going to that water well probably won't quench your thirst. Sharing your story with safe people will help you. I might be wrong and perhaps there are successful accounts of mutual healing with us and a PD. I just haven't ever seen it. It's so hard when we're in the middle of it and leaving especially with children but no contact "NC" is, in my opinion, the only solution. If you have children with her then, of course, you must get involved in minimal contact but, seriously, 30 years out from my children's mother and nothing has ever worked with her. She's still vicious and demonizing me with the children. Confrontation letter is something that I've wished for and sent but it never returned anything but more claims of her victimization and my harassment of her. The courts, attorneys, therapists and police will rarely ever it see it. I wouldn't give her anything written. For what it's worth.

[1stTimer]

no contact "NC" is, in my opinion, the only solution.

The interesting thing on the Discard/NC thing is for all intents and purposes this got reversed. She sat me down to back out of the committed relationship I'd just made my official gesture for the prior day (running scared) and instead of giving her a chance to explain I stormed out after saying "thanks for opening my heart I'm going to go start dating".  And never contacted her again (other than the one letter which, as nice as it was, basically reiterated that) and have not since. So from her perspective it could be seen as I walked out on her and never looked back too.

[once removed]

1stTimer,

what do you think about tableing this for a bit? the exercise of writing letters is a good one. maybe keep working on what you want to put into words, but hold off on sending anything?

[Turkish]

Please do not urge participants to exit their relationship. Members post here to find solutions to difficult problems. Please allow them the opportunity.

You can read the guidelines for this board under "WHO SHOULD POST ON THIS BOARD": https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=56303.0

[1stTimer]

As you can see in a prior reply I did just that thanks. She does not deserve anything that beautiful for a # of reasons: 1) I never felt that kind of love for her 2) she made no attempt to consider how her actions affected me and left me in the wind.

I suppose I can try to see it from her perspective; tried to tell him I was scared he screamed at me and told me he was going to go date other women and never contacted me again. Which is where the letter comes from. I did not give her a chance to say anything once she did the 'you're a nice guy but'.

If I had really loved her I might send the letter. But I did not and I'm leery enough of who she actually is to put such a message out to her. If she were the ex I referred to from California I would. I see a few alternatives here though none of them I like (I hope it is ok think out loud like this here):

1) She did just <snap> move on and my walking out and disappearing fit her needs entirely. For the last 7 weeks while I spun down the drain she was not even thinking of me making love to someone else(s) and (this is even worse for me) in the apartment and bed that she had painted as 'ours' not just for weeks but that last day. That was going to be a refuge for me when I sorely need one where I could rest my head, find affection and peace and support and solace and sex and love.

2) She was expressing, once again, her fear (as she did on The Date Night) but had not moved on as much as could not move forward. As she said when I started getting upset with her Date Night "just listen, don't talk, I'm just so scared". And I shot her down and hurt her by deciding to go date other women on my own <snap> and never called or texted (except for my nice email which she then replied to) which sort of reinforced her whole "He doesn't really mean it".

In the case of 1 what are the possible outcomes:

1) Why doesn't the loser leave me alone? And possibly an email to that effect. Or... .silence. Sort of so what: I gave some beans to a person who doesn't know what to do with them they'll never fill her soul, and she'll look down on me or think she owns me. Neither of which is true. It's just her damaged mind being damaged, I lose nothing.

2) An apology/explanation that confirms my fears "sorry, it was too late, I've moved on and am happy I hope you are too"

3) She realizes now that she is back with the sadistic ___ how happy she was to be with someone who made her feel safe with kindness and soft words vs brute control. Look man the Day we were together she was soaking up compliments because I think 'he' never gave them to her. She showed me her hands which are admittedly not pretty and said 'please. you can't say one nice thing about my hands" and I said "I can. They are connected to you". Her mouth dropped. And now she is (I'm assuming) back with a person who actively worked to destroy her self-esteem.

4) She lashes out at what a bla bloa bla I am and never contact me again you bla bla bla. See outcome #1

In the case of 2 what are the outcomes:

1) She is too mad/hurt to process and ignores me

2) Ditto but lashes out (bla bla bla)

3) Does not reply but takes solace in the words and then a person who did deserve to hear the words does

4) Processes over a few weeks/months and reaches out. In a few weeks or months I will be past this and her.

5) It makes a big difference to her but she is with someone else, see #4

6) It makes a big difference and she reaches out (the Hollywood Option in other words)

And the funny thing is I can live with most of these. It is the Hollywood Option that is almost the worst. Because if reconciliation is on the horizon and she is not a full on BPD (unfaithful, unable to bond, devaluing, etc) but is just damaged then even though I can possibly handle that I'm then full-circle to where I was before the whole thing spun out of control; I don't see myself with her 'forever'. For months? A year? A beautiful span of weeks where we in fact do do her Saturday Nights and Sunday Afternoons and Pet Names and see what we are like as a couple? Sure. But in my heart of hearts I know she is not the one.

So as I pass (back out of) the anger stage from last night I start to think sending it while on the table should be considered carefully. If I were as damaged as she clearly is, and as used to abuse as she is, maybe this would be an amazing thing to get that she never got before to help her heal? I'll say again; if she has not had committed relationship for ten years and clearly is almost like a little girl understanding  what that means, she must have scared the hell out of herself with the king-sized beds and the where would we move and the meet the family talk since she scared me and I've done it all before.

1stTimer,

what do you think about tableing this for a bit? the exercise of writing letters is a good one. maybe keep working on what you want to put into words, but hold off on sending anything?

[once removed]

youve thought things through. good.

it was a pretty lousy things she did 1stTimer, full stop. it was a traumatic one, too. its going to take some time and work to recover.

i know you feel badly about how you reacted when things ended. i think all of us here have our share of regrets.  at a certain point, i think we have to let those things go - not just sweep them under the rug, mind you, since we want to take the lessons to healthier relationships in the future - but at a certain point, neither party is really in a position to soothe the other (help the other heal), and they arent obligated to.

youre in control here, so if there comes a day that you still want to say your piece, youll probably be in a better place to articulate it when that day comes.

what do you think?

[1stTimer]

Well it is nice to get some validation that she did a ___ty thing. I keep holding on to the stupid White Knight image and I have no reason to. She knew what she was going do to on The Official Date Night when she said we needed to take off the table before we agreed to 'date' that she EVER asked for a relationship when it was ALL she did.

But to me the ___ty thing wasn't freaking out and running; it was never contacting me again. And that sort of tells me that she did not freak out and run. She just found someone/thing better and I stopped existing for her. No way anyone with the feelings she professed or the desire for the future she professed 18 HOURS prior could just disappear.

I go round and round so yeah I'll just let this simmer. I'm almsot tempted in fact to delete the post and the document so I don't send in a moment of weakness. I still regret sending the 'nice email' because it took away my opportunity to just walk out with dignity and have HER wonder.

In any event if I'm honest with myself I'm just trying to stir up emotions and a response as I'm still, to this day, awed that her emotions haven't overwhelmed her enough to do so. Which tells me all I need to know I guess. I can't change reality with a letter.

youve thought things through. good.

it was a pretty lousy things she did 1stTimer, full stop. it was a traumatic one, too. its going to take some time and work to recover.

i know you feel badly about how you reacted when things ended. i think all of us here have our share of regrets.  at a certain point, i think we have to let those things go - not just sweep them under the rug, mind you, since we want to take the lessons to healthier relationships in the future - but at a certain point, neither party is really in a position to soothe the other (help the other heal), and they arent obligated to.

youre in control here, so if there comes a day that you still want to say your piece, youll probably be in a better place to articulate it when that day comes.

what do you think?

[once removed]

I go round and round

i think a lot of us do. none of this is easy. its okay. take it, and see it for what it is, and work with it, one step at a time. we are here to walk with you through it every step of the way.

[1stTimer]

Thanks again once_removed, as replied in the other thread I'm just seeing how this is really connected to the rest of the 15 year debacle and not 'her' so it is much bigger than I'd understood. Speaking of 'understanding' I see the letter to her as ridiculous because ALL I did was understand:

1) I understood she was lonely and had trouble making connections so forgave her ignoring my boundaries about what I could give in a relationship and pouring on the endless pressure. Not just to be 'committed' mind you but to reconsider where I wanted to end up living so I could live with her. Talk about pressure on a person just entering the world again.

2) I understood when she explained why she messed around ("dabbled" with a guy in the apt she gave me keys to in the bedroom she gave me drawers in a week after we had amazing sex AND she said she hadn't had sex in a year. I got the 'you said you didn't want a relationship I'm looking for one'.

3) I understood when she asked me to not run but to be with her and that she told me the very upsetting things she did because she wanted me to get jealous and realize we should be together.

4) I understood when she told me that because of her past that regardless of what was going on with her and a man she HAD to be asked to be in a committed relationship because of her past and because her idiot boss told her to 'wait for him' and led her on. I got it even though I didn't agree with it and though I didn't get on one knee I put aside my objections to what had happened to date and asked formally for her to be my girlfriend (in fact I said "X, will you be my one and only".

5) I understood the next day when she made me meet her for lunch (at which I called 'our place' to which she said "I love the sounds of that" so she could 'confirm a few things' mainly that I HAD asked what I asked and WOULD ask again on the weekend. This so she could tell her whole family. I got that she had not been in a relationship is a long time, how much it meant to her, so agreed again. To what most adults just... .do

6) I even understood after our two days of text exchanges when she told me she was NOT yet my GF until I officially asked why she needed such a 'formal' request (again, the aforementioned horrible past).

7) I understood AT dinner when she tried to back out and/or put up caveats when she finally told me to not respond and to just listen to the fact she was teriffied. I understood, accepted, comforted and made sure we toasted to something that was simple and easy; we agree that we are in a relationship and want to see where it goes.

8) I understood her entire future-bomb the next day and I laid down my arms and let her do it finally and let it wash over me and accepted all of her terms and wishes and desires (Satruday Nights would be 'our' date nights, next Valentine's day I'd ask her to be my Valentine since I had not the prior one, etc)

So why in God's Name would I need to understand her telling me the next day I was a great guy but no thanks she didn't want a committed relationship with me? Why would that me strong or kind? Why would apologizing to HER for not understanding HER when it is and was incumbent upon her to make a grand gesture to ME to if not come back to explain, to soothe, and to not simply disappear like it all never happened.

No sir she does not get that letter. I have a lot of love in me still and maybe one day I'll fight with or lose someone really special again and I'm saving letters like that for her.

i think a lot of us do. none of this is easy. its okay. take it, and see it for what it is, and work with it, one step at a time. we are here to walk with you through it every step of the way.

[1stTimer]

Man. What I think is after reading stories like these;

https://www.quora.com/What-is-emotional-amnesia-in-BPD

I am the luckiest man alive she pulled the plug BEFORE we got serious. How terrifying.

youve thought things through. good.

it was a pretty lousy things she did 1stTimer, full stop. it was a traumatic one, too. its going to take some time and work to recover.

i know you feel badly about how you reacted when things ended. i think all of us here have our share of regrets.  at a certain point, i think we have to let those things go - not just sweep them under the rug, mind you, since we want to take the lessons to healthier relationships in the future - but at a certain point, neither party is really in a position to soothe the other (help the other heal), and they arent obligated to.

youre in control here, so if there comes a day that you still want to say your piece, youll probably be in a better place to articulate it when that day comes.

what do you think?

[1stTimer]

For anyone who is still following this debacle

Still not sure if I am going to send, however I modified the main paragraph to add a little bit more of my own concerns and to take some of the man/woman aspect out of it so while it is still 'sweet' it backs off from sounding (totally) like a love letter and more of what I'd wanted originally; reaching out in case I lashed out at someone in my own pain and added to their deep issues. The rest of the 'Little Prince' lead in still remains, this is the main letter though. It feels much better to me as it is not a total 'off-the-hook' letter, still acknowledges I had pain and cause, that I'm sending it in only in case this was driven by fear and her past and not malicious on her part and not a romantic-take-me-back.

"I'm not reaching out her for 'reconciliation' as I don't even know if we ever had anything to reconcile or what it meant if we did and some doors or windows don't stay open forever anyway and it has been... .forever. I’m not even writing this as a man to a woman just as a person to a person I cared for at one time.  And I'm writing because, I tried hard to put aside any hurt or anger or possible knee-jerk reactions I had and to let go of my assumptions about what happened during that very confusing maelstrom of a week and came the realization that I may have I let you down when you needed me most and lashed out when what you needed was my strength and understanding. It still would have been very hard given the circumstances of the day and that led do the day but it doesn’t change that may have been the truth. The alternatives are still unpleasant to contemplate so I’ll choose to believe that is the case and I should then have found a way to put my own shock and pain aside and to deal with yours as I realize belatedly that the things you struggle with a lot from your past might be bigger than I could know or understand.  If that is the case then I want you to know that the only truth of you for me that really matters now is that you came into my life like a rose when I needed one the most and cast your radiance over me and perfumed all my planet. I count my birthday night and the night we cooked as two of my most special. I remember some of your texts almost verbatim because they were filled with such understanding and caring and support of me I could hardly breathe after I read them because it was so lacking in my life.  For whatever it may or may not be worth to you now or ever I thought you should know since I clearly was not strong enough in myself at the time to share it when it might have mattered to your life and happiness both of which mattered to me more than I knew. There is no need to acknowledge or reply to this letter and I won't send another. I’m simply writing because I realize with some distance and after reading that passage that you struggle with more "claws" and darkness than I could possibly have imagined, as I realize you tried to tell me many times, and my hope is that sharing with "my rose" what you brought to me I might shine some radiance and perfume your planet as well."

[flourdust]

Hey, 1stTimer, welcome! 

These relationships can be real whirlwinds -- I can see from your writing that it's all kind of a swirling mess of confusion. It can be hard to ground yourself to figure out what you want.

Can you try a little exercise for us? Put down in just a single sentence what you want from her (same relationship, changed relationship, no relationship, closure, understanding, don't know, can't decide... .). Then let's think about what you can do to get you to what you want... .or if it's even possible.

[1stTimer]

Hey, 1stTimer, welcome! 

These relationships can be real whirlwinds -- I can see from your writing that it's all kind of a swirling mess of confusion. It can be hard to ground yourself to figure out what you want.

Can you try a little exercise for us? Put down in just a single sentence what you want from her (same relationship, changed relationship, no relationship, closure, understanding, don't know, can't decide... .). Then let's think about what you can do to get you to what you want... .or if it's even possible.

Hi flourdust thanks for taking the time.

Single sentence would be hard thus the swirling mess of confusion. I moved very rapidly from keeping it/her at arms distance to full on committed to suddenly drawn into a future in an insane whirlwind, engineered by her. So I can't really do one sentence otherwise I'd have sent or not-sent, I can do this if it helps anyone:

Same Relationship: Well the one we were in was me resisting her relentlessly pushing, me giving up ground. So that one? No, didn't do anyone any good, she was confused and wanted more, I was confused, and clearly she deserved more too.

Changed Relationship: I am 50/50 on whether I'd want to go to the spot we decided to go to; committed relationship to see what we have. I'm not sure if she is capable of committment/fidelity for one thing, for another I' m not sure if it her I want or the relationship she painted which I've been sorely w/o; girlfriend to out on dates with, nights together in bed, sundays lazing about, a woman to talk to and support me in my difficult business since she'll be likely sharing in the rewards, etc. I was open to this finally. The 'we are engaged' one she slammed me on the head with once I "committed" which I think terrified HER into running, no. For me that takes us taking the first step and seeing what we are/have together. Again 50/50.

No Relationship: It is what we have now. And unfortunately colors all my decisions as (if you read my original story) I've been in a very restricted life for 10-15 years with a lot of loss and little to no friends/dating and working alone 80 hours a week via skype. So just not having texts from her is hard. And yeah I mi miss the touching and supportive ones such as "I wonder: maybe you don't need to make this thing HUGE and be a billonaire or famous or even rich; maybe you just need to make a nice normal happy life with it". I mean... damn. THAT is the woman I want by my side and vice-versa. I forgot in my anger afterwards and in keeping her at bay that kind of caring and support.

Closure: No such thing really. Anything she might say "never liked you jerk", "my ex came back", "I got scared and ran", "I'm a mess and a slut" nothing really closes anything.

I won't lie and say that *part* of my motivation is not to get back on her radar as part of my 'agony' is how this girl who seemed to plan her future around me for months can literally disappear the day after she gets it all. Then again I did go off on her. And I think that her ':)iscard' was no such think since she could have just emailed me 'bye' or disappeared and she took the time to come meet me and try to explain. And I laid into her. Again, deserved, but the guy that just said he wanted a committed relationship with you and "be my one and only" told you he always knew you were like this and said I'm going to go start dating. Not a good thing to get yelled at you when you're trying to back out because you got scared.

But 75% of this is really what it sounds like; I think I might have lashed out (she deserved it) at a girl who was already damaged and hurt ("I haven't had a real boyfriend in ten years, my entire family is going to want to meet you" and endless "there are things you need to know about my past" because I was hurt. I mean heck I KNEW she was going to back out I sent myself an email the night before.

So saying that my primary motivation is passing some healing along to a woman I cared about who may be hurt would be fair.

Which leaves my fears on that:

1) She doesn't reply. I won't be crushed in fact, I'll know he got it and is processing. One day she'll reach out or not. I'm pretty sure in 3 months I will be moved past this, I am taking a lot of steps besides just pondering this, I still work 80 hours a week trying to get this business over the hump and am working out 10-12 hours a week getting in the best shape of my life.

2) She lashes out some 'get a life' or 'get over it' or 'never contact me again' or 'loser I never even LIKED you!'. I'm doubting this as the first email I sent (a month ago) she DID reply to "thank you for the nice note. hope you've been well'. Of course she could get ANOTHER one and be like 'jesus GET OVER IT'. I don't suppose those would kill me though, I'll know she still got the message

3) She replies in the same Hallmark Card or Thank the Dogwalker way. Confusing but... .whatever?

4) She wants to meet. THAT I likely would put off for a few weeks if it was requested so I know i'm in a good spot to do so.

5) Not happening but she sends me some reciprocal 'love letter'.

Anyway you see how good I am at one line responses :|

[flourdust]

Anyway you see how good I am at one line responses :|

 

Yes... .we have a term around here for this kind of thing ... ."ruminating." It's what happens when you get stuck going down mental rabbit holes with no resolution. Sometimes, it's a helpful step in the coping process, but you don't want to get stuck there!

So, let's try to break the cycle and focus in -- it sounds like you don't quite know what you want (see, that's my single sentence version). What might help you get to a decision?

[1stTimer]

What might help you get to a decision?

Ruminating? :|

I have no idea man. Impulsive decision most likely. One issue is that the 'business' I'm trying so hard to push over the top of the hill so I can HAVE a life and options (and which I wonder secretly now if it is one reason she did split) is now having setbacks . So that affects my decision-making ability too. Confirmation Bias I'm a 'loser' and will remain alone. Doesn't help make a decison like this does it?  All I'm asking for is a kick-in-the-teeth when I'm on my knees. AND it reminds me the whole draw of her was FINALLY having a woman to turn to for support, solace, advise. So it all goes round and round.

[flourdust]

So you want some companionship? Perfectly normal.

Why not get on a dating site or two and see if you connect with anyone?

[1stTimer]

So you want some companionship? Perfectly normal.

Why not get on a dating site or two and see if you connect with anyone?

I simply do not connect to people like that, never had. And it is not 'companionship' I want. I want someone who understands me, appreciates me, respects me, thinks about me, wants me. Yeah I get we all want that. I've been w/o except for the endless family illness/death/squabbling and excruciating rebuild for the better part of the 21st Century. So you can see why having it ripped out would be painful. AND having resisted making that full connection for months under intense relentless pressure to give it all. And I finally did that night/day. Laid my hands down and accepted the whole package; me and her, a couple, a team, side by side, a future. Resisted it for months because it had been years I'd learned to go it alone and keep my heart closed, opened it up let her connect all the screws and eyehooks she'd been trying to forever and woke up to her ripping them all out accusing me of taking what she didn't want. So companionship and a dating site as much as I appreciate the thought are not going to solve anything. I'm still in limbo until I can get to escape velocity with my business (just how it is as a man and especially in NYC) and I'd somehow found a woman willing to travel with me regardless. I can't help feeling like I blew it.

[once removed]

Single sentence would be hard thus the swirling mess of confusion.

we all understand. weve been there. we are just trying to help you break this thing down in bite size bits.

as i see it, there are three issues going on. the business is having setbacks as you say. can you give us a better picture of whats going on there? do you have any support or coaching for it?

theres the letter. my advice would be to completely put that away for now. if you are swirling in confusion, its best not to act. you can come back to it. working on it may be working you up, and youre not sure if you want to send one or not anyway.

theres the lack of emotional support, which is hard, but weve got you covered there. do you want to vent? do you want feedback? advice? someone to just listen? all of the above?

[1stTimer]

we all understand. weve been there. we are just trying to help you break this thing down in bite size bits.

as i see it, there are three issues going on. the business is having setbacks as you say. can you give us a better picture of whats going on there? do you have any support or coaching for it?

theres the letter. my advice would be to completely put that away for now. if you are swirling in confusion, its best not to act. you can come back to it. working on it may be working you up, and youre not sure if you want to send one or not anyway.

theres the lack of emotional support, which is hard, but weve got you covered there. do you want to vent? do you want feedback? advice? someone to just listen? all of the above?

I agree on not sending until I have my head on straight. No bad decisions then and no way it can bite me further.

Business? No coaching, it is just me really and some half-baked offshore coders trying to build what a 20 person multimillion dollar funded tech team should (but have not). I've got it 90% there on my own over the better part of a decade just hitting the usual 1 step back but it is tiresome and I'm running out of time and money and the emotional strength to keep doing it. I've lowred my sites so I can just finish it and have... .a life. An apartment/home, a dinner party here or there, a girlfriend, maybe kids. It remains endlessly elusive even with progress, I work on it alone from dawn until dusk (either alone or texting via skype ot people 1/2 around the world who don't give a crap). I go out at night alone to local wine bar and watch people live and no one has the slightest idea what I accomplished (which is a lot and should have been impossible, fueled it on fury and terror) and never will if I succeed. Hard for me to overstate what having a girl/woman interested in it and believe in it and me meant. Hard to overstate what our conversation when we 'agreed' to be a couple about her actively supporting me by discussing/advising meant. Did I take her for granted? I don't know it eats at me.

Advise is always good but I guess it is pretty simple; send or don't send on letter, keep moving or give up on business. all of these options suck. I guess I've just run out of energy emotionally and financially and spiritually. Most of my energy now is in going to the boxing gym and venting there and, for the first time ever, living on hope. Thank you as always for listening.

[flourdust]

I simply do not connect to people like that, never had. And it is not 'companionship' I want. I want someone who understands me, appreciates me, respects me, thinks about me, wants me. Yeah I get we all want that.

Right. And how do you get to that... .? It starts with a single step.

[1stTimer]

Right. And how do you get to that... .? It starts with a single step.

It is a single-step that takes a long time to get to through many many dates and then that step is months of learning, connecting and trusting. It is made 1000% harder in the position I am in. So the reality is it is not a reality in my near future. So it still becomes something that is utterly absent from my life.

[1stTimer]

Right. And how do you get to that... .? It starts with a single step.

The point here is I'd be dating for the last umpteen years and likely have a woman beside me now if my entire life didn't fall apart and I didn't lose everything. I have NOT been able to pursue a relationship due to my living and financial situation until I make things work out. This woman/girl did not CARE, she didn't care I lived at home helping my mother, she didn't care I had no money she believed in me, she wanted to be by my side. I pushed her away or at least held her at arms lenght because I could not see being with someone when I had no financial security, my emotions were raw from years of family drama and death and I was living with family in toxic situation. And still she wanted me.

I am thinking I royally f-ed up. Which is why I want to send the letter. Could this be BPD as per my original post? Maybe. It is also a guy who was utterly closed off and lacked confidence in what he could bring to someone who kept a girl at arms length for perhaps too long. Maybe by the dinner she wanted to still want it. Maybe be the time we were 'together' she realized the risk in being with me. I just know that I didn't give her a chance to say anything after telling her I agreed to everything with her and shut her down and walked out to go date other women.

I might be the bad guy here.