Husband claims he feels no connection with me - blames me for not being "a wife"

[eggshellfiancee]

My husband and I have been married since January.  All along he has said he doesn't feel like I am present for him, or that i treat him like he's my husband. he says he feels like he has a roomate who gets his health insurance and brought him debt.

He hasnt' slept in the bed with me in over a month as a form of punishment. He is angry over something that we had already talked about (a financial issue), and that he'd previously said he would just learn to deal with as its unreversable (short version - I have significant student debt but am on a loan forgiveness plan so I've never been too concerned - he feels it is a huge burden to have taken on). But the littlest slip up in our relationship and he goes back to it and then basically tells me I'm a mooch and that I bring nothing to the relationship.

I go above and beyond to be a good wife for him. He works fewer hours than I do - albeit his work hours are more hectic - but I still handle the food, cooking, etc. He works from home and I make sure he never has a workday where there isn't a lunch for him at the house. I stopped using my phone around him at all so that he knows I am present. I am super nice to him even when he's not beign super nice. If he's sick, I constantly check in to see what he needs and try to meet those needs.

he seems mostly upset because I'm not as excited or invested in things like when we will move to our hometown (which is our long term plan) and hwo to make that happen. He gets upset if I go out by myself because he already feels like I dont spend enoug time with him - even though I go home to him every day and have basically shut out many of my other social connections.

I love him so much and I feel like I'm doing everythign he asks of me and more, but he always finds a way to point out something I"m not doing. He also says all I do is seek approval from him not try to make him happy. I have pointed out to him that I do have a tendency based on some of my own chidlhood experiences to need approval, but that I also frequently do things just because I love him and want him to know that. his birthday was last week and I went above and beyond - travelled an hour of my way to get him his favorite sandwhich, came home with candles and a cake from work, decorated the a partment, took him to dinner, took him to a show, etc. He said he loved how good i was to him thsoe two days and wished i was like that all the time. I have tried so hard to be like that all the time but the truth is it cant be his birthday every day.

I just dont know what to do. I feel trapped. I feel like no matter what I do it's never good enough, but if I say that to him his response is "stop worrying about your approval rating!" it's not even about that, it's about him noticing the 1000 things I do every day to ensure he knows I love him.

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[formflier]

I love him so much and I feel like I'm doing everythign he asks of me and more, but he always finds a way to point out something I"m not doing. 

I hope you can think about what you have observed... and understand this isn't about what YOU do.

It's about something in him... please don't explain this to him.

Big picture:  I hope you can spend some time on these boards and learn how to "validate" how to listen... and how to live you own life.

Once he realizes that he can't control you with these dysfunctional methods... things will likely improve.

 please read this and post your questions

https://bpdfamily.com/content/communication-skills-dont-be-invalidating

Looking forward to your response.

FF

[schwing]

Hi eggshellfiancee,

My husband and I have been married since January.  All along he has said he doesn't feel like I am present for him, or that i treat him like he's my husband. he says he feels like he has a roomate who gets his health insurance and brought him debt.

That must be very hard to hear from your husband.

If your husband is dealing with BPD, then you will need to consider that you cannot control how he feels.  And how he feels may be primarily driven by his disorder, a disorder he might never accept of himself.

He hasnt' slept in the bed with me in over a month as a form of punishment. He is angry over something that we had already talked about (a financial issue), and that he'd previously said he would just learn to deal with as its unreversable (short version - I have significant student debt but am on a loan forgiveness plan so I've never been too concerned - he feels it is a huge burden to have taken on). But the littlest slip up in our relationship and he goes back to it and then basically tells me I'm a mooch and that I bring nothing to the relationship.

He is effectively punishing you for how he feels because of his disorder.   And as wrong as that is from the perspective of the non-disordered, it is far more preferable for the disorder to believe this because their only alternative (while they are not recovered) is to blame and punish themselves.

I go above and beyond to be a good wife for him. He works fewer hours than I do - albeit his work hours are more hectic - but I still handle the food, cooking, etc. He works from home and I make sure he never has a workday where there isn't a lunch for him at the house. I stopped using my phone around him at all so that he knows I am present. I am super nice to him even when he's not beign super nice. If he's sick, I constantly check in to see what he needs and try to meet those needs.

It doesn't matter what you do or do not do; none of it will address what is actually bothering him.  He will not face what is actually bothering him (i.e. his disorder).  So he will always find another lightning rod.  The topics always change but the nature of the conversation stays the same; "I'm not happy; it's your fault."

he seems mostly upset because I'm not as excited or invested in things like when we will move to our hometown (which is our long term plan) and hwo to make that happen. He gets upset if I go out by myself because he already feels like I dont spend enoug time with him - even though I go home to him every day and have basically shut out many of my other social connections.

When you go out by yourself, he gets overwhelmed by his (imagined) fear of abandonment.  He needs you to go home to him every day and shut out all your other social connections for the same reason.  He's struggling with how his disorder makes him feel.  If you deny yourself outside support, this disorder will sink both of you.

I love him so much and I feel like I'm doing everythign he asks of me and more, but he always finds a way to point out something I"m not doing.

He always finds something wrong because he cannot accept what is actually wrong [his disordered feelings].  It is his defense mechanism to always blame something outside of himself.

He also says all I do is seek approval from him not try to make him happy. I have pointed out to him that I do have a tendency based on some of my own chidlhood experiences to need approval, but that I also frequently do things just because I love him and want him to know that.

Maybe you are seeking approval from him.  Or maybe you are just trying to avoid his unpredictable ire.  I understand that you love him and want to help him.  But the love of a spouse (alone) does not cure mental illnesses.

I just dont know what to do. I feel trapped. I feel like no matter what I do it's never good enough, but if I say that to him his response is "stop worrying about your approval rating!" it's not even about that, it's about him noticing the 1000 things I do every day to ensure he knows I love him.

Get support for yourself. The trap you find yourself in, is the one he requires you to be in order to assuage his disordered fears (i.e. his trap).  You cannot be in a position to help him, if you are yourself overwhelmed.

You are in the right place.

Best wishes,

Schwing

[eggshellfiancee]

Thank you both for responding. Schwing, your detailed analysis was very helpful. These are all things I consciously know but need to be reminded of in the moment.

I thankfully do still have friends even though I’m not spending much time with them. I’m a social worker and it also helps that so many of my colleagues can pick up on when I’m down. I have a couple of trusted colleagues who know what is going on and are always willing to lend an ear and to cut me some slack around the office on bad days. Today one of them even offered to come pick me up if ever I felt unsafe. I’m grateful for that. My mother is also aware of what’s happening as well as one of my best friends. I’ve tried not to involve too many people because I don’t want them to have a tainted opinion of him when we are all together. The few I’ve trusted are those I know that can separate and handle social situations with him well.

I’ve been seeking therapy however I’m having difficulty landing a good therapist. I’m hoping to find skmekne soon

My husband has a therapist but he doesn’t see her much during his busy season, which is now. He’s also stated he will refuse marriage counseling until I am also in therapy. I do not think his therapist is providing the appropriate therapy for his needs. He has been seeing her for a long time and not much has changed. Also, as a licensed clinician myself, I know that she can’t procide the type of analysis he needs based on her level of licensure. It’s very frustrating

There are times when he’s clearheaded and admits that he doesn’t understand why he feels things so deeply or why my actions cause such an adverse reaction. I wish he would take that seriously and seek help.

[Cat Familiar]

I thankfully do still have friends even though I’m not spending much time with them. I’m a social worker and it also helps that so many of my colleagues can pick up on when I’m down. I have a couple of trusted colleagues who know what is going on and are always willing to lend an ear and to cut me some slack around the office on bad days. Today one of them even offered to come pick me up if ever I felt unsafe. I’m grateful for that. My mother is also aware of what’s happening as well as one of my best friends. I’ve tried not to involve too many people because I don’t want them to have a tainted opinion of him when we are all together. The few I’ve trusted are those I know that can separate and handle social situations with him well.

It's good that you're still in contact with your friends. So many people on these boards have become estranged from family and friends due to their BPD loved ones feeling threatened by those relationships.

I’ve been seeking therapy however I’m having difficulty landing a good therapist. I’m hoping to find skmekne soon

My husband has a therapist but he doesn’t see her much during his busy season, which is now. He’s also stated he will refuse marriage counseling until I am also in therapy. I do not think his therapist is providing the appropriate therapy for his needs. He has been seeing her for a long time and not much has changed. Also, as a licensed clinician myself, I know that she can’t procide the type of analysis he needs based on her level of licensure. It’s very frustrating

There are times when he’s clearheaded and admits that he doesn’t understand why he feels things so deeply or why my actions cause such an adverse reaction. I wish he would take that seriously and seek help.

That he's even seeing a therapist is commendable since so many people with BPD actively refuse to accept responsibility for their own problems, instead blaming others for every dissatisfaction. From my experience and the experience of many others here, marriage counseling with a BPD partner doesn't seem promising. For you, it's imperative that you find a good therapist. Even therapists who treat borderlines need therapy themselves. As you know, it's unbelievably stressful dealing with BPD issues on a daily basis.

Reading what you have written about your desires to bring your best self to the relationship and his unkind treatment of you, I wonder if you have a history of being a people pleaser in your family of origin. Also you need to be aware of him moving the goal posts and expecting you to totally cater to his every whim. It seems his BPD might be comorbid with narcissism.

[Zinnia21]

After a number of years with my (still undiagnosed!) BPD, I understand how automatic it can become to try to keep them happy. To prevent a bad mood or an ill judgement coming from them and landing on your head.
Knowing my partner can be very insecure or jealous, and knowing his imagination can run dark and wild, I used to automatically explain why I’ve been chatting to a friend on messenger (knowing that he has seen I’m active or online). Like, instead of saying nothing, I felt the need to mention, “so I was talking to sally today online and she said... .” as an example. Because I knew he’d be worried.
I have been known to tailor my behaviour to suit his.  To predict what will upset him in advance. I mean of course. That’s why they call it walking on eggshells!

It sounds like you are living through some form of that too. ie- predicting he will not be happy unless you do a certain thing to keep him happy. To prevent any possible misgivings he will have and to keep things ok. It’s understandable as this is what we do when in love.

But imagine for a moment how it might be to go about your day without the preventative actions you are making. What would that day look like, if you were just being yourself? Without fear of upsetting your partner.
Could you experiment with living a few of those days?

I too have gone so out of my way for my partner. One time when he was sick, I went and bought him expensive medicines and treats and drove to his work to give them to him. We had lunch and I thought he’d be happy I had come to help. But it just ended with him criticising me for some imagined crime I had committed against him. This is one of many times I tried to show how much I cared, but only the negatives get noticed. It seems a hallmark trait of the disorder.
And trying to please him never helped and never improved anything. This is my experience anyway...

[eggshellfiancee]

I have tried living without that preventive thing and it only makes things worse. I told him recently when he was in one of his more clearheaded states that I often feel it is impossible to relax and simply be myself around him. He thinks that's just me seeking his approval. I honestly don't see whats wrong with wanting his approval - he is my husband, he should like me, so yes, I do often try to seek his approval, but that doesn't mean I am not trying to make him happy in the process.

I do have a strong history of being a people pleaser both in my family and work. I'm a supervisor and even struggle with upsetting the people I supervise when I need to be hard on them. It's an ongoing struggle for me. I like for those around me to be happy even at the sacrifice of myself. My husband himself has noticed that I let people walk all over me - what he refuses to notice as that he does it too

[formflier]

Can you give an example or two of a recent event you found troubling with your hubby?

Some he said she said and brief context will help us point you in the right direction.

FF

[eggshellfiancee]

Today for example:

Our agreement in our household is that I do the cooking and he does the dishes - mostly because he doesn't like the way I do the dishes. The only dshes I wash are our cast iron because they need to be washed right away so I wash them as soon as I'm done cooking.

This morning was the first time in a while we have both been up before I go to work (he works from home and is off on Tuesdays).  I left to go the gym but then realized I should probably spend some time with him since we haven't had mornings together in a while. I turned around, bought some fruit, and went home and offered to make him breakfast. He very nicely thanked me and said he would like that a lot. I made eggs for him and pancakes for me. It took a total of two bowls and two skillets - both cast iron so I was going to wash them, however whiel I was cooking and eating, I had moved last night's dinner dishes into the sink which looked like a mess (small kitchen).  I could tell when he got up to put his plate away that he was annoyed with the level of dishes.

Before I left I cleaned off the cast iron, restacked the dinner dishes neatly, and cleared the counter.

I'm at my desk and get a series of text messages from him about how I should buy breakfast for him next time instead of dirtying up dishes because the amount of time it will take him to clean up the mess makes it not worth it for one serving (reminder, there are literally two small bowls to be washed), and how I should know this by now.   When I tried to explain this to him, he replied with "deleted that whole paragraph, too long, didn't read, you were wrong, deal with it." and then used it to launch into another rant about ho I'm not in tune with his needs, that I only want to be "popular" and that I dont care about if he is happy.  We had plans together tonight and he told me he is going alone and I should not contact him because he doesnt want to hear from me.

He gave no indication while eating breakfast or wheN I offered to make it that he was unhappy, he actually thanked me profusely.

This is pretty much how it operates all the time. I never know what is going to set him off.

[schwing]

Hi eggshell fiancee,

Thanks for your example.  I'm sorry your husband reacted the way he did to the very nice and considerate breakfast you put together for the both of you.

My understanding of this disorder is that events and occasions where people with BPD (pwBPD) feel particularly intimate or close, can become triggers for their disordered thoughts/feelings.  These are not their only triggers, but for nonBPD these triggers can be particularly cofounding.

You did something thoughtful and something that you'd think would bring you two closer.  And he reacted as if you did something to hurt him.

What I think happens inside the head of a pwBPD, is that after they experience feelings of closeness and intimacy, especially when we are away from them (due to their lack of object constancy), they can become overwhelmed by their imagined fear of abandonment.

So actions mean to bring you closer together, becomes "proof" that you intend to abandon/betray or denigrate them.  And it is these feelings to which they are reacting.

So even though he claims it's because you didn't do the dishes exactly as he expect you to do, that really isn't the reason.  It's the lightning rod.  Even if you took care of this lightning rod, he'd find another one.  Any other excuse, except for facing and dealing with what he is actually feeling.  Because he doesn't want to face that what he is feeling make no rational sense.  He *needs* you to be the problem.

While you were having the breakfast, he did feel particularly close to you.  It's afterwards, as he got overwhelmed by his disordered feelings, that he chose to blame you for how upset he became.

I hope this is helpful in some way to you.

Best wishes,

Schwing

[formflier]

Schwing is the man with the explanation!

Right on target.  Please understand that "they" (BPDs) are unlikely to consciously think this process through... it's not a "plot"... ."it's what they do"

This is their normal.  (I hope you can see why "personality disorders" can be so chronic... it's because this is "normal"

These are not their only triggers, but for nonBPD these triggers can be particularly cofounding.

You did something thoughtful and something that you'd think would bring you two closer.  And he reacted as if you did something to hurt him.

So... .let me give examples from my relationship.

I see a psychologist weekly to help me "deal with" making the best out of my relationship (I have 8 kids... so big incentive to provide stability)

Anyway... .one of the "axioms" or "truths" in my relationship is that "my wife can't handle intimacy" (at least as most people define it)

Axiom number 2:  BPD won't get much better without consistent effort on their part.

Axiom 3:  Nons can change things that "force" BPDs to get somewhat better or at least the relationship is calmer.

Therefore:  I pick and choose times that I want to be intimate.  This would be a fancy date or a "weekend away" and when I do this I pretty much "let my guard down" and really enjoy myself.  (I have a hot wife... and when she is great... .she is great).

However... I know that some amount of rocking and rolling is coming.  So... .recently after going to one of those steakhouses that is over $100 for two people... .and an awesome night of other stuff... .the next morning as I was trying to get out of bed to go get work done my wife wanted to chew my a$$ over something.

0 to 100 in nothing flat.  I didn't express any surprise... .gave some light validation and expressed confidence that she would be able to figure out a solution.  I left the room with her "barking" after me.  Went and did my thing.

Her "rant" ran out of steam pretty quickly... .and within a couple hours "poof"... .it didn't exist... .never happened.

Life goes on.

There is a term called radical acceptance.

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=296225.0

Learning this tool is a process.  I'm still working on it.  

But basically... .once you understand who they are... .and that they are just being them... .why would that shock or hurt you?

Said another way... .don't take them being them personally.

That also means don't appease or fix "their" stuff.

Make sense?  Thoughts?

FF

[formflier]

Homework assignment number 1:

After reading what Schwing and I wrote... .how would you handle the dish thing differently?

FF

[AskingWhy]

Dear Eggshell:  

Your H seems a lot like mine.  Reading your thread, it seems to me like your H is a control freak, especially over the dishes.  My H also has this little peeve about dishes.  Not having them done by the time he comes home from work, and I can already see the "silent treatment."  If he had a bad day at work, or if his adult children are mistreating him or begging for money, and H will go ballistic and start throwing dirty dishes and calling me names.

By the way, the silent treatment is form of abuse that actually affects you physically.  It is unhealthy.

https://www.heysigmund.com/the-silent-treatment/

Your H is, purely and simply, ungrateful for the nice breakfast you fixed him.  Next time, by all means, buy him breakfast or let him make it himself.  Treat him like the spoiled brat that he is.  

BPDs and NPDs are like children and should be treated as such.

Men who are BPD (or even with NPD features) have a very terrible FOO.  What is your impression of your in-laws?  :)o you know them well?  In my case, my FIL is surely NPD (undiagnosed but most people can't stand him because he's like 5 y.o. in a an 80 y.o. body), and my MIL was most certainly the enabler.  

My H also "punishes" me in many ways for perceived slights:  punching holes in walls, breaking dishes, silent treatment, refusing to drive me to medical appointments (I have a medical issues), etc.

There is something lurking in your H's mind and it's not about you.  Most likely, it's a FOO issue.  :)on't take it personally.  

When H and I first married 20 years ago, as a new bride, I bought a very nice satin nightgown.  I wanted to please my H.  Rather than being impressed and delighted, H simply looked at me and said, "Oh, and how much did that cost me?"  Mind you I had a nice job and bought it with my own money.  From that time on, I separated finances (the best thing I ever did), and made up my mind to please myself.

Schwing makes some nice points about accepting the person for who they are.  This may not be possible for you.  But once you understand it's not about you, you can feel easier about your marriage.

For the longest time, I took the insults and rages from my H personally, as if I had done something to bring on H's responses.  Now I know better.  It's most about my H's insecurity, his uNPD father and messed-up childhood, and his enmeshment with his adult children.

Now when H rages and threatens divorce when he dysregulates (which he does often; once I had three divorce threats in four days), I just look and him and tell him to go do it.  Actually since I stopped engaging when H dysregulates, the divorce threats are fewer.

You mentioned not being able to feel like yourself around your H.  I also felt this way.  My H was critical of the way I dressed, the way I ate, my taste in music, etc.  BPDs and NPDs have the need to break you down because deep inside, they really don't like themselves or even know who they are.  Breaking you down is one way they make themselves feel powerful.  That is one salient aspect of their pathology.  That is why they are so abusive.  In an earlier post, I mentioned that my H treats me like one of his subordinates at work--like I work for him and have to live up to his standards while he orders me around.

In the end, when I stepped back and removed myself from the pain of being so close to him and how cruel he is, I saw just how sick, twisted and pathetic my H was.  Inside, I now laugh to myself.  (For instance, he favors his adult children over me and buys them lavish gifts while I get only trinkets for birthday and anniversaries.  He also really does not have a sense of self.  He defines himself by the opinions of his friends.)  I see my FIL for the pathetic old man he is.

I have not ruled out divorce from my H at this point, but I have far less pain in knowing that my H is really a sick man.

I hope this helps.

[AskingWhy]

I have tried living without that preventive thing and it only makes things worse. I told him recently when he was in one of his more clearheaded states that I often feel it is impossible to relax and simply be myself around him. He thinks that's just me seeking his approval. I honestly don't see whats wrong with wanting his approval - he is my husband, he should like me, so yes, I do often try to seek his approval, but that doesn't mean I am not trying to make him happy in the process.

I do have a strong history of being a people pleaser both in my family and work. I'm a supervisor and even struggle with upsetting the people I supervise when I need to be hard on them. It's an ongoing struggle for me. I like for those around me to be happy even at the sacrifice of myself. My husband himself has noticed that I let people walk all over me - what he refuses to notice as that he does it too

I had not noticed this post, but you may be codependent and need to examine this.  You are already aware of this dynamic and so is your husband.

You must be a very kind person.  I also fall into this category of being a pleaser and an empath.  My husband calls me the nicest person he knows, always ready to help people and go out of my way, even with strangers.

BPDs are often attracted to two types of people:  codependents who are pleasers (as you note) because they can whine and still be catered to, or NPDS who will validate their sense of being worthless.

They are odd symbioses but iwork in their twisted ways.

[eggshellfiancee]

So many great insights from all of you here.

the intimacy thing is so true. It almost never fails that his biggest blowups are after we've had a truly wonderful time together. For example, on my birthday we had the most amazing time togther and he made me feel so loved. We spent the whole day enjoying each other and remembering exactly what we love about each other. Then the next day he immediately found something to blame me fore and shut me out for about a week and was threatening divorce. We haven't fully recovered since. (that was april)

I can thnk of so many other times I've gone through this too. It's a constant roller coast of "I can't imagine my life without him because he is the best," to "wow what the hell is wrong with him."  I've even thought to myself recently that at least with his refusal to be close to me I feel less like I'm constantly on a roller coaster ride - I know what to expect.  Perhaps I've become complacent. But the roller coaster has started to creep back in as I've started working on things with him. It was so bad last week that I actually left for the night and spent the night with a friend. he sent me a series of berating texts and then after he'd cooled down said "Is this the beginning of you leaving me?"

he is so afraid of abandonment.

As far ast he FOO thing goes - he doesnt speak to either of his parents becaue they were so terrible he decided he has no room for them iin his life. Yes, its that bad. 

[formflier]

he is so afraid of abandonment.
 

I believe this is true of your pwBPD and most pwBPD in general. 

If we take this a "true" (an "axiom", how does this impact how you "train" him to be better, even if he doesn't want to be trained?

FF