Just moved in and things went south fast

[GettingMarried]

Hi all,

A little background. We are an older couple (late 30's - early 40's) and I'm divorced, she's never been married. We want a lot of the same things including trying for a family but I'm seeing a lot of red flags after moving in - things that seem very abnormal in my experience, so I'm seeking help. She's had traumatic brain injury from a car accident and childhood abuse/trauma and sometimes alludes to being aspergers. She also works managing special ed for kids with autism, has degrees in special ed, so feels she's an expert on the topic. She's been medicated before for anxiety/body focused repetitive behaviors but is not currently.

Wow, just writing that out seems scary.

Anyhow, we fight more than any relationship I've been in and usually it feels one-sided as though she is fighting herself and I'm just collateral damage. Since we moved in together a month ago, I'm witnessing behavioral patterns that concern me.

For example, last night she was in tears over a TV show and then saying she was worried she was going to die from breast cancer because her mom had it. This went on for some time and she eventually went elsewhere in the house to watch tv when bed time came around and then  barely slept all night. In the morning it is like she did cocaine - she's extremely manic and has a million plans for home renovations and shops like crazy making impulse purchases. Then by afternoon she starts to have body focused repetitive behaviors. She picks at her skin, he eyebrows, rocks back and forth, and taps her foot on the floor (not with any rhythm, just random thuds like a cat's tail when they are mad).

It is around this time that she binges on junk food despite saying she’s trying to lose weight before the wedding. Sweet and salty especially. She eats it like she hasn’t eaten in days - with her mouth open and rocking back and forth. It is at this point that I duck and cover.

After that phase, she gets very argumentative over everything. I literally can't say anything without her blowing up. Sometimes the blowups are violent with shouting and door slamming. She often freaks out if she can't find something she set down a few minutes prior - her phone, keys, etc. If she doesn't find them right away she makes a loud growl or screams into a pillow.

Finally, after the blowup, she will leave the house, often going out for a drink. She says going for a drive helps her "cool down" but ultimately when she comes back she reverts to a sort of weepy/clingy/apologetic mode or she won't talk at all until the next day. Often she’ll fall asleep on the couch and if I try to wake her for bed, she whines like a child about not wanting to get up and then berates me later for not getting her up.

She incessantly whines "I'm so tired" "I don't feel good" and she HATES people she works. She changed jobs and I thought she’d be better but she just finds new people to hate. Everything is always someone else’s fault and everyone's an idiot who doesn’t know what they are doing. Even her best friends end up in this category though not usually to their face, just to me.

Writing this, I find myself thinking I should have gotten out. Now I’m stuck - we bought a house, the wedding is planned. And the thing is, when she’s normal, she’s great and we do really well. But those normal times seem to be getting fewer and further between now that we’ve moved in.

Any help is very much appreciated.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[pearlsw]

Hi Getting Married,

I hear ya! Sometimes when I write out things that have happened in my current relationship I think how the h*ll did I get myself into this mess? It can feel embarrassing, scary and even like there are no options.

Keep in mind, please, you don’t have to marry, even though you have a house or a wedding is planned. It’s a bigger problem to solve, but you never lose the option to leave.

My SO knew at his first wedding that he was getting into the wrong marriage and he ended up with someone he did not love, but had three kids with, for 15 miserable years. His father told him he had to stay with her and work it out. I believe she had mental health issues and it had an impact on enhancing his as well. He was pressured into staying. Let no one or no thing pressure you into marrying when it does not feel right. It will only get harder. Someone gave me this advice, but I foolishly thought I'd be okay.

I inherited their mess and marital problems. Sadly.

If you do want to stay there are tools here to the right of the page that can help you understand what you are working with and possibly help you improve things, or at least not make things worse inadvertently.

When it comes to making a decision about staying I think a key factor is do you have the personal strength, and can you get a support system in place, to be able to handle this? Personally, I only have the former, personal strength, I do not have a strong enough support system, it’s me and this site, but this site has helped a lot. But without additional in person support I am still on pretty shaky ground.

What kind of support do you have? Does she or you see a therapist? I always remind myself at the tough times, that even therapist who treat folks with these issues need therapists, so it is understandable if this gets to me too much for me because I deal with it 24/7.

with compassion, pearl.

[GettingMarried]

Thanks Pearl.

I have limited support - moved to a new state so not a lot of friends out here and no family. I'm planning to go back to my therapist soon and am also trying to get us to couples therapy.

To be clear, my goal is to make this work. I really want to believe that it is workable (and it would be a major hardship financially to sell the house we just bought). She's going to talk to a doctor this week about why she is always so tired. My gut tells me that it is the morning mania/anxiety that is exhausting her but don't feel like I can say that to her. She clearly doesn't know she's any different in the morning. If I don't get up when she does - she'll just yell at CNN on the TV.

One of the reasons it seems like BPD to me is that there is always someone to blame. I was sad about a family situation yesterday and she jumps right into blaming a friend of mine and saying how awful he is. It seems like there is an inability to just accept things and instead this need to demonize someone. 

I guess I'm wondering:

Does any of this sound like BPD, maybe with OCD comorbidity?

What are some strategies for deescalation? When she is ramping up, it seems nearly impossible to bring her back down to normal... .I can tell hours before there is a fight that one is coming.

How can I get her to seek help? I'm hoping something might come out in couples therapy that would help lead her in that direction.

Thanks for the support. - J

[pearlsw]

Thanks Pearl.

I have limited support - moved to a new state so not a lot of friends out here and no family. I'm planning to go back to my therapist soon and am also trying to get us to couples therapy.

To be clear, my goal is to make this work.

Hi GettingMarried,

I'm pretty isolated like you too, but overseas and with no one near me/in-person to help. I handle it all on my own, aside from my time here, it is not easy at times!

Although my SO is medicated we don't have a diagnosis for him. I focus on the behaviors. It is not easy! Do you perhaps want to list out which symptoms she seems to have?

We're here for ya, staying or leaving is your choice and we won't push either way. We understand there are reasons for both and it is highly personal.

I would say these two tools can help a lot:

SET

Validation

Is she open to counseling? Pushing someone is not a good idea, but saying things that could open her up to the idea could help. My SO is very interested now he says, other times he's totally against it. Keep in mind with mood dysregulation it is not an easy (or permanent) choice or path for someone to take. From what I've read on the site couple's therapy can open wounds, be difficult. But it is always up to you try what you think fits best, but also good to consult here for tips.

with compassion, pearl.

[Gemsforeyes]

Dear GettingMarried-

I'm so sorry that you're going through this difficult and confusing time with your girlfriend.   Can you provide some background on your relationship?  For instance, How long have you been in this relationship?  Before you and she bought the house and moved in together, what was your living situation?  Did you live in different states and have a long distance relationship?   

What if any "odd" or obsessive behaviors did she display prior to living together and/or buying the house?
How does she describe her previous relationships to you?
How does she behave around contact with you, i.e. phone calls, texting, social media... .
How are her relationships with her family?
Is she calling you names/villifying you?

As you likely understand, none of us can diagnose anyone... .we can only look at traits and behaviors and from there, try to figure out what is happening.  A bit more information would be very helpful.

I agree with Pearls ... .there are wonderful tools to assist if this is indeed BPD, tho' it does seem as you observe, as if other things may be at play.  I also agree with Pearls that perhaps pushing the pause button on the marriage may be appropriate until her health issues (real or imagined) are better understood.  Will she be able to continue working and carry her share of financial responsibility?  Food for thought... .

If in fact these behaviors ARE brand new and are indeed escalating, the stress of the move and the impending marriage may be overwhelming for her - this is something you may NEED to know and better understand now.  Especially if you're considering adding children to the mix.  Are you going to be a husband or a father to her?  Why was she able to keep these behaviors "hidden" from you (if she did)?

Above all, please take care not to allow yourself to become isolated, no matter who she adds to her "hate" list.  You need to keep your support in place, even if those people are a phone call away.  And we are here for you, so please keep posting.

Warmly,
Gemsforeyes

[tin]

Hi- I can deeply relate. However I'm 30, just sold the house I bought with my fiance I suspect of having borderline.

We bought the house 3 yrs ago after we first got engaged. After he and I moved into together, it became unbearable. We had been together for 8 years.

I kept putting off the wedding for 3 years. Then last week I got the house sold. One alternative if you can't sell the house is perhaps renting it out.

I found that while I loved him, living together was damaging for my well being, and me being unhappy and resentful towards him and his issues was bad for him too. He went abroad for a month and I noticed how much less anxious and depressed I was when he wasn't there. I also had some space to process a lot of repressed feelings and see some the codependent patterns and denial more clearly?

Can you take some temporary space away from the stressful living situation? Since walking on eggshells around the person you live with will likely exhaust and drain you, it may make you less and less able to help you or her over time.

My goal was for us to live apart and meet with a counselor there to meditate to stop some of the unhealthy patterns and conflict that only intensified over time. When I started making the effort to not engage in the arguments, to be direct and firm about boundaries, and move towards this goal, his behaviors and reactions escalated. Eventually I got to a breaking point and started to talking to friends. A couple of them were aware of borderline and informed me about it- the patterns of him threatening suicide, spinning out of control around feeling abandoned, idealizing/devaluing me, going to extremes in all or nothing thinking, demonizing people, shifting the blame onto me.

Maybe some time apart- if you travel alone somewhere (go to a personal development retreat, visit family, attend a workshop, something) it might allow each of you can see what's happening more clearly. In my situation both me and my partner were better able to hear each other and see what was happening after he moved into an apartment and I put the house on the market- it took 5 or 6 months to get to that point.

Can you rent out a room in the house to a quiet graduate student or young professional to offset the expense if you decide to live separately? It seems like and unhealthy situation and making getting some space and perspective can be helpful. If she's not getting professional help, and you aren't in couples counseling, and describing the situation makes you feel overwhelmed and scary ( i can relate to all those things) some space away from the stress could be a loving choice for both of you in the long run.

i'm new here and very inexperienced with these issues but i can relate and those are some the options I considered.

[GettingMarried]

Here is a host of behaviors. Does any of this resonate with people?

Anxiety/ocd/bfrb:
- Hair pulling, in particular eyebrow pulling/touching which can go on without stopping for 45 minutes straight in the evenings or when she is stressed. She doesn’t really know she is doing it.
- Skin picking, lip picking. Essentially the same as the eyebrow picking and sometimes happens simultaneously (eyebrow touch > chin touch > lip pick > other eyebrow touch > repeat)
- Rocking back and forth, especially when eating food at home.
- Random body twitches and foot stomping. Not tied to anything, the stomps are arrhythmic like an angry cat’s tail. The twitching is various muscles and happens when at rest.

BPD:
- Poor family relationships. Loves her parents but then is abusive. For example, over the holiday she blew up on her father for him asking questions and after cursing them out, said “I’m going to the bar” and stormed out. 
- Oddly, same thing with her cat. Tells the cat she loves it more than anything in the world one minute and then is mad at it the next.
- This bears out with co-workers whom she vilifies for the slightest infraction. I thought when she changed jobs it might get better but it seems like only the names have changed in her tirades.
- Morning mania - she is extremely manic in the morning and then crashes hard at night.
- Frequent rage over small things, in particular momentarily misplacing something.
- Lack of impulse control (from what I’ve read, that can also play a role in body-focused repetitive behaviors). She will say, I’m just going to have one drink and then have three.
- The worst of her combative self usually comes out after alcohol is consumed. The more, the worse.
- History of bad relationships. All ex’s are jerks or alcoholics according to her recollections.
- Sugar binging. “I’m trying to lose weight” and then she’ll eat an entire container of candy as though she hasn’t eaten in days. Also seems like poor impulse control.

[pearlsw]

Here is a host of behaviors. Does any of this resonate with people?

- Hair pulling, in particular eyebrow pulling/touching which can go on without stopping for 45 minutes straight in the evenings or when she is stressed. She doesn’t really know she is doing it.
 
- Random body twitches.

- This bears out with co-workers whom she vilifies for the slightest infraction.
- Lack of impulse control (from what I’ve read, that can also play a role in body-focused repetitive behaviors). She will say, I’m just going to have one drink and  

Hi Getting Married,

I'm impressed with how observant you have been. Thanks for writing out those descriptions.

I'd also like to acknowledge the really insightful/helpful comments of the others on this thread! Great support here from tin and GemsforEyes!

I've highlighted the ones my partner has too, looking over your list. Interesting.

So you feel you can't talk to her about your notion that she has mania or anxiety?

take care, pearl.

[GettingMarried]

Another blow up last night.  Strangely, this happens frequently when we go out to dinner (often at her suggestion). I can't help but feel like alcohol plays a factor - she will slur her words even after 3/4 of a drink and then go from normal conversation to complete blow out in a matter of seconds. All I want to do is get out of there at that point.

The last one was on her birthday. I took her out for a nice dinner and she mentioned reading an article about "kinesthetic learners" that she was using to justify her inclination toward physical violence when she gets in a rage (slamming doors, etc). I said it was interesting but that I didn't really get mad so it was hard to relate to. That sent her into a total melt down... ."Everybody gets mad. You are saying you are a better person than me." Etc. No matter what I say at that point she loses it.

When we got home from dinner last night, she abruptly left and returned later with a bottle of wine (again the alcohol). And proceeds to get back into it, even though I've said I don't want to fight. After she devolved to cursing me out and slamming the bedroom door, I slept on the couch. In the morning, she confronted me again and says I may be hearing her but not listening to her. Tells me she thinks my divorce (years before I ever knew her, in another state, she basically has no context) couldn't have been just the fault of my ex who cheated on me (and incidentally, I tried to get not to leave the marriage AFTER she cheated) and that I MUST have played a role. Victim blaming anyone?

I did get up the courage to tell her that I'm worried about her interpersonal relationships. I gave examples of her hostility toward people in her family ("I love them!", her work ("no I don't!", previous romantic partners ("we just weren't a good fit" and previous roommates ("they were crazy". I gave specific examples and she just sat there.

She had agreed to couples counseling, which I'd hoped might lead her to individual help as well, but last night she said she'd go but wouldn't necessarily take advice. She is "in the field" and thinks very highly of her background despite my having found a therapist with 16 years in the field and PhD. She said that she's been in therapy on and off since she was 7 and has been "working on herself" since then and that I should be too. I guess I'm also concerned what being in therapy since childhood says here (she mentioned managing her anger as being what she has worked on).

Thanks for all the suggestions. Unfortunately I live in an insanely expensive housing market, so no way that either of us could afford the mortgage on our own nor could we rent it for enough to cover the expense. The wheels are already spinning on the wedding, people have RSVPed and bought tickets. I definitely have looked into protocol for canceling but I feel like I have to make that the absolute last resort if I can.

In terms of escalation of behaviors, I really can't tell if it is just that I'm around her more now that we live together or if they've escalated. She definitely had the behaviors before we moved in but I think some of them may have come out since she gained the security of buying a house and getting engaged (she joked that she can chew with her mouth open now but honestly she doesn't do it the way that most people do - she smacks at candy while rocking back and forth but I guess she feels she has license to do that now).

I really appreciate the support here but also feeling sort of hopeless. I'm going to schedule therapy for myself just to have someone to really open up to because it feels embarrassing to tell friends about what my home life is like right now.
 
 -J

[pearlsw]

Hi GettingMarried,

We don't offer stay or leave messages here, this is your choice and you have a big picture sense of things we don't. That said, this does not sound good going into a marriage. You feel very tentative, see a lot of red flags, and yet seem to see yourself careening towards something you can't stop. Why? Shame, embarrassment, it would end if you put the breaks on?

I'm really glad you are going to see a therapist about this.

Personally, I saw some behaviors before I married that were  's and I underestimated how much worse things would get, long before they would ever improve, in my relationship. If I could have seen what the future held I would have done things differently.

Do you think it was a good idea to argue with her (my first take) about her interpersonal relationships and offer evidence about your opinion about them? Do you speak to her in a way that elicits her own expression of opinion/feelings? And validates her even when you disagree?

What are the pros/cons of getting married at this point in your life to this person?

with compassion, pearl.

[Gemsforeyes]

Dear GettingMarried-
Pearls is making great points.  And I'm glad you're trying to get in to see a T.  I am so sorry that you're dealing with all of this... .

May I ask, with the wedding approaching what types of conversations are you and your BPD fiancé having around that event?  And plans for what would come after the wedding?

I do want to get back to my earlier point that there is nothing wrong with pushing the pause button on the wedding.   Pearls has stated this as well.  I personally know a few couples who did this AFTER invitations were sent... .they just needed some extra time for relationship adjustments.  Postponing a wedding does NOT mean a relationship ends.  Airline tickets can be used later.  Invitees to a wedding are mostly those who love you both; they will understand.

A final thought for right now, with a visual.  I believe you mentioned earlier there were plans to start a family.  Picture your soon-to-be wife having a cocktail, raging at you, and slamming a door for reasons that make no sense to you.  The baby wakes up crying and hungry.  Will your new bride calm down enough to lovingly feed the baby and rock him back to sleep?  Just wondering.

Warmly,
Gemsforeyes