Invalidation - the big trigger

[agotada]

What I’d like to gain from this blog is validation.
Validation that I am not a liar, a selfish narcissist, a bad person, a bad daughter, a manipulator.
Validation that my childhood was traumatic and not normal.
Validation that my mom was not always in the right.
Validation that the things that I saw were real and not made up in my mind.
Validation that my mom has high functioning borderline personality disorder and that because of that I have complex PTSD.
Validation that my OCD tendencies as a child were EITHER REAL OCD OR disguised as PTSD.
Two recent experiences have been triggering me was from a psychiatrist I saw to treat myself and a recent involuntary hospitalization for my mother.

I grew up living with my mom, who was never diagnosed with high functioning borderline personality disorder but had all of the tendencies that fit a diagnosis. It is the only reasonable explanation to me for her behavior and the only reason I have not rid her from my life. Her toxicity though has slowly been killing me. I so much hair that I wore wigs and now use a powder to cover all the bald spots. I suffer from autoimmune conditions and chronic fatigue that doctors can't explain or treat. They normally refer me to a psychiatrist.
 
I grew up catholic: a full believer in forgiveness, compassion, and kindness. Treat others the way you want to be treated. Honor thy mother and father, even if they are emotionally abusive. My mom said I was selfish and not caring. And cold. And I felt like I was going to go to Hell if I didn't please her.

I thought loving meant enabling and lying for someone who you love to protect them, and lying to yourself to teach yourself to be a better person.

I wasn’t aware until a few years ago that my sister and I were brainwashed and covertly abused by our mom. Our father did not help make things better because he was scared of my mom (and separated from her when I was 3) and he grew up in a dysfunctional family as well and had some borderline tendencies too.

They both suffered addiction problems but denied it. My mom would cry to me about her marital problems when I was 4 and ask me advice about whether or not to divorce my dad. She always would get her needs met by using guilt. I grew up thinking I was a selfish and ungrateful daughter because if I didn't say what she wanted me to say or if I asked for something, she said I did not appreciate all I did for her and that we had things better than she did. We grew up on welfare. She had trouble holding a job because one bad relationship with a boss or coworker would lead her to having a fight and quitting, and even trying to sue them without ever getting anything in return. She always would gaslight my sister and I, and I would be so confused about my own memories and never trusted myself because she would say what I saw wasn’t true.

We were blamed for manipulating her when we couldn’t follow all of the things she wanted us to do to help around the house, and Mother’s Day was always a nightmare because our gifts were never good enough or if we bought her a gift the week before, it meant we didn’t care.

I never kept a diary because when she would find it, she would misinterpret what I’d right and think I would be accusing her of being a bad parent. I ended up studying Spanish because I wanted to be able to speak a language she wouldn't understand so I could communicate how I was feeling without worrying about being responsible for her and other peoples reactions. I married to have a valid excuse to leave her and was going to move to Mexico, but I felt so sick and fatigued and I was scared it would be dangerous for me to live abroad with an unknown condition. My ex husband was from Mexico and he got a K-1 visa to come in marry me. I filed for a divorce last summer after finding him cheating on me twice. I married at 24 and am 26 now and divorced.

Anyway, my mom has pretended to commit suicide a few times when she found out I was moving out, or when she found out her ex boyfriend was dating someone else. She called the other day to say she took 30 lorazapam. We went to her house immediately and it was the most dramatic thing ever. She had a picture of us sitting next to her, and empty bottle of pills, and was reclined in the car chair (because she tried to make it look like she was going to kill herself by locking herself in the garage and turning on the car). She had a suicide note that she later said was NOT a suicide not and just a note that explains how to take care of the cats. Then when we called the police and EMT, she was PISSED. She did take that many pills, or so she said, but she didn’t need her stomach pumped. I think she has a high tolerance for substances because she drinks a lot.
 She was so mad at us for “putting her in jail” (the hospital) and said that she would never let us forget what we did and that she hated us. She was throwing things at my sister in the hospital. And yelling at the nurses. She told her best friend that we lied about the whole thing and that she wasn’t attempting suicide and that we just hate her and wanted to institutionalize her.

Her friend yelled at us because she believed my mom, and I left very mad and crying because I felt like no matter what I did to help my mom, it’s never enough and she will never change. She has moments where she acts caring and empathetic. But I never know when the light switch is going to switch back and raging mom is returning.

I have been trying to grieve the mom I will never have. The doctor at the hospital told me that she just has anxiety and depression and possibly ocd, but she refused to believe she had a personality disorder and said it would take too long to diagnose her. She also told me her behavior is a reflection of the italian culture, AND THIS IS WHAT ENRAGED ME THE MOST. Pretending to commit suicide is not NORMAL in any culture. And then blaming your whole family for it is not normal italian culture. If you are to say that this is normal and this is why you cannot diagnose her with borderline, then you're perspective is very biased and ethnocentric.

 The psychiatrist told me that all I need to do is call more (my mom used to expect we call her more than once a day and not be walking or doing ANYTHING while on the phone with her, and I've recently limited it to three to four times a week which is perfect) and said that we need to be more sensitive to her. I’ve walked on eggshells my whole life, felt that all my experiences were made up in my head and that I treated my mom horribly, and that I am a bad person. I can’t take it anymore. She told me that she doesn't want me to trigger her when she comes home and that someone would need to be responsible for baby proofing the house and removing things she could use to hurt herself. There was no way I would be ther person repsonsible for my mom after she would leave the hospital because
1. She was still VERY MAD at me.
2. She truly believes that we called the hospital because we hate her.
3. She would be raging at me the whole time.
4. She is not being treated for her true underlining problem.
5. Being around her will make me doubt myself more and I will feel more guilty and ashamed.

My mom acted nice around all the nurses by the second day but then called my sister, myself and her mom (my nanna) saying that the three of us “hate her” for putting her in jail and that when she gets out, we’re going to really regret making her involuntarily commit. She involved nanna in this because my Nanna always has enabled her and she knows my Nanna will feel guilty. I had to set a boundary with my mom and said that I won't speak to her or have a relationship with her unless we have family therapy.

The psychiatrist did not agree to us having a family therapy session before letting her out because she said my mom was too fragile and that she doesn't think it would help her. When I showed up for my mom's 302 hearing, they sent me home and told me that two hours earlier, my mom had agreed to stay because she made a deal with the psychiatrist. The psychiatrist did not contact me to talk about my mom until 5 days after she "attempted suicide," and after me calling three times to talk to her. Because my mom decided to be voluntarily admitted, they did not have to notify us when she was coming home. And my mom's friend who believed her signed her out.

How do you explain to someone that you aren't visiting your mom after she attempted suicide when you don't even know if it was real or if she actually has a personality disorder? It's hard NOT to feel guilty.

The other invalidating trigger I had was with a new psychiatrist. I was diagnosed at age 9 by a school psychiatrist of having OCD. I've been treated for having that until a few months ago when a new psychiatrist told me that I don’t have OCD because I would still be experiencing some of the compulsive symptoms I had as a child. She said that I don’t have PTSD either because I do not have nightmares about the same incident over and over again and that typically that’s only something war veterans or survivors of a fire/car accident get. She diagnosed me with major depressive disorder and general anxiety. This confused me, because general anxiety wouldn't make me think that I was a murderer and believe I would do the disturbing thoughts that appeared in my head. And if that isn't OCD, what is it? Why would I be crying uncontrollably for days and be scarred for my own safety?

The OCD symptoms started developing when I was 2 but became worse when I was six. I was scared of getting close enough to my mom to hear her heart beat. I was her emotional partner because my father was abusive and was not living with us, and she liked me to comfort her, hold her hand, and cuddle in bed. This doesn’t sound bad but there were times I felt somewhat repulsed and forced to be constantly hugging her and reassuring her everything was okay and that I would always love her. She told us since birth, my sister and I, that we were the only reasons that she was living. She needed someone to need her. I was put on medicine for my OCD tendencies and scary thoughts when I was 8 and have been medicated since then.

When I was 14, I was scared to be around knives because I thought I would hurt myself or someone else.  I would wake up every morning in a panic because I knew the obsessions were about to start and I had no idea how to control them. One of my compulsions was to tell my mom everything that entered my mind, because she told me that I was a liar if I hid things from her and with my mom, there were no boundaries.

I feared that I was going to kill myself. I feared that I was going to rob a bank if I didn’t tell my mom my thought. And my mom was not mentally stable so telling her these things was like activating dynamite, especially when the disturbing obsessions were about her. And when she was going through cancer treatment when I was 14, she blamed my sister and I for getting cancer and was often mad at us for needing things and said I was selfish when I would become very upset and disturbed by my obsessions and that my OCD was slowing down her recovery. She gave me a beer to calm me down because she didn’t know what else to do. She took me to a psychiatric hospital when I was doing very bad one day but then told me to lie to them and tell the doctors that I didn’t want to kill myself and not to mention that she gave me a beer, and said that if I said the wrong thing, they would lock me in a mad house for six  months and I might not see her for a while and that I need her in order to conquer the OCD. She wanted me to just get medicine and move on.

I had to quit my teaching job and start teaching online because every time I had to set a boundary with a student, I panicked and did not set the boundary because I felt guilty for it. The male students started to sexually harass me because they knew I was too scared to reprimand them and I felt ashamed for going blank and not saying or doing anything. When my boss told me I need to work on setting and enforcing the rules, I automatically would start uncontrollably sobbing and can't get myself to stop crying for at least an hour and feel like a child because the response is so over exaggerated and it's the type of crying I had in reaction to my mom when she blamed me for making her cancer recovery worse and for being an ungrateful daughter.

Please tell me I’m not crazy. It's hard for me to feel understood and things like this are so hard to normalize. I don't feel comfortable talking to others about it because most people will say something invalidating or not believe it because my mom puts on a front in front of others and only treats my sister and I badly when we are alone with her. She didn't want my boyfriend to come to her house anymore because he was normal and she felt like she had to pretend to be someone else around him (non-abusive). Sometimes I feel so alone even though I have a boyfriend because he didn't grow up in a dysfunctional family and he never saw the scary  side of my mom yet. I hate feeling invalidated

[HappyChappy]

Hey Agotada 

Your situation does sound very similar to mine; Catholic upbringing BPD mom and week enabling Dad, and C-PTSD as a result. So you're in good company.

Reading your thread it does sound like your mother is BPD, and children of BPD commonly get C-PTSD, its second only to eating disorders. So I, and most on here, understand the torment you must have been through. But the good news is you’ve figured it out at quiet a young age, so that’s good.

I appreciate it must be frustrating that your Mom refuses to be diagnosed, but in truth most BPD refuse, especially at your mothers age. But it shouldn’t make any difference, because what hurts us, is the behaviour, not the label. You C-PTSD has come from childhood trauma, but as people with BPD have very similar behaviour, I’m sure you will get validation on here. Because many have experienced the suicide threats, many the emotional blackmail, different flavours but in essence the same spirit.

But I hope you realise that your behaviour had little to do with the criticism, that always comes. For example you are probably right your mother may well believe that you called the hospital because you hate her. But you and I know that's bonkers, you did what any rational person would do. You did this out of kindness. But a BPD must continually criticise, treat them mean and keep them keen.

Also speaking as someone brought up as a Catholic, my BPD also laboured the honour they mother stuff, but first you must act like a mother to qualify for that. That means you mother should have validated you as a child, and help you with your problems, not the other way around. Of course you do not have to honour someone who abuses you - absolutely not. I knew the bible better than my BPD mom by the age of 12, and I realised she was miss quoting it left right and center. Religion was just a clock of respectability for my mom nothing more. Just as much of the criticism you say your mother sent you, is unjust

But I look forward to seeing more of your post, and I’m sure you will get validation. You do cover a lot of ground in your blog. But what aspect of it bothers you the most ? Which bit do you want to focus on first ?

[Harri]

Hi agotada.  Let me join HappyC in saying welcome to the board.  I think you will find a lot of us here can relate to many aspects of your situation.  Like you and Happy C I was raised by a uBPD/uSchizophrenic Catholic mother who used religion, church doctrine and twisted biblical references to control me.  I was also brainwashed into believing I was possessed by the devil (mom and her friends would pray over me to cast out demons, etc), so yeah, i can relate to a lot of what you talked about here. 

You are definitely not alone and I do not think you are crazy at all.  It sounds to me like you have some issues that result from being raised by a mentally disordered mother and *that* is completely expected and in a way normal.  What would not be normal is to come out of the childhood you had and not be affected by it. 


The doctor's comments about it taking too long to diagnose BPD and attributing the behaviors to being of Italian descent are quite limiting.  It also sounds like the new psychiatrist you saw has very limited knowledge about PTSD and specifically c-PTSD  to say the least.  I am not certain what is going on in terms of a diagnosis but it is possible that you have major depression, anxiety and PTSD and OCD.  It is certainly possible to have more than one diagnosis.  Have you thought about seeing a different psych doctor for a second opinion?

Given my mothers paranoia and delusions, she too had me convinced i was capable of violence and that I had even blacked out events where I caused her harm. She had bruises and convincing stories and kept a gun nearby to protect herself from me.  So yeah, I think I get it.  I used to believe what she told me.  All I can say is that I am still chipping away at some of the lingering false beliefs after some very intense therapy with a psychologist.  It gets better.

Are you on medication to help you with the anxiety?  Have you sought help from another therapist?

I will say again that you are in the right place for support and understanding.  A lot of us, including me, can relate.  I am glad you found us.  Things do get better with a lot of hard work and a bunch of validation.   

[Insom]

Oh, agotada!  I hear how frustrating it feels to receive all this conflicting, confounding, "expert" information about how to help your mom while at the same time needing help and validation of your own.  Hugs.     We are here to listen and support.

It sounds like you're feeling invalidated by your psychiatrist.  Is this something you can address in-session with him or her?  If not, what you do you think about Harri's suggestion to seek out a second opinion?  At this point it sounds like you need a validating person whom you know is fully on your side. 

[agotada]

I feel stunned right now to hear you have gone through something so similar. Reading about the condition in books was validating, but hearing you all who have very similar experiences makes me not feel so isolated and misunderstood for the first time.

I have never met anyone in person who had a borderline parent/spouse/sibling, and I know the disorder has so many different characteristics that if I do meet someone who has a family member with borderline, their experience could be completely different due to the complexity of the disease.

I am reluctant to confide in friends and family about it because it is often met with them questioning me. Or they have nothing to say, normalize it as typical dysfunctional family behavior, or suggest I do things that either enable her or leave her isolated.

I feel sorry for her, but for the first time also mad because I was never allowed to feel the anger. I also didn't think I had justification to feel mad. If I feel all of this pain and don't have borderline personality disorder, I know she is going through something more difficult being that she is incapable of identifying anything is wrong with her and she likely will never get help for her problem. Thank you for your supportive words. It was hard not to tear up reading this because it's touching to know there are people who care and understand.

I wanted to reply to each of your responses individually but I am not sure how to properly do that. I will have to explore this website more to learn how to do it.

Insom, yes, I have felt very invalidated from my psychiatrist. I started working at a new job last August and once I was eligible for the benefits, I found out that the plans offered are limited with psychiatric care. There are doctors that take my insurance, many of them are not taking new patients but I have been communicating with an online therapist that worked in my city who has a few contacts she has been trying to see can squeeze me in as another patient. I know I will eventually be able to see another one, I just have to be patient. She is a nurse practitionerpsychiatrist (I had to wait four months to see her) and I see a therapist at her office that was triggering the invalidation and she is requiring me to see him in order to see her. So right now I have two therapists haha but it's been helping because he's at least been validating that she has borderline.

I am bringing up what I wrote in this post when I see her today and am very nervous about it because confrontation scares me so much, but I have to do it. I have been looking for a psychiatrist that specializes in trauma/ptsd and the ones I have found are hard to schedule. I am on antidepressants and a mood stabilizer right now. My prior psychiatrist prescribed me an anxiety pill I did not take because I am scared of becoming addicted (my dad has a Percocet addiction and my mom had one with lorazepam.)
I feel for all of you. And also Harri and Happy Chappy, your experience sounds so similar to mine in regards to gaslighting it's scary. I have a tendency to write A LOT and repeat myself, so I apologize for the long reading! I will write a post when I find something specific I'd like to focus on, I am just like a fizzy drink that's been shaken for years and someone is suddenly opening the cap and my thoughts/emotions are everywhere haha!

[Insom]

I am just like a fizzy drink that's been shaken for years and someone is suddenly opening the cap and my thoughts/emotions are everywhere haha!

  Yes, I can relate!

Good luck in your therapy appointment today.  Will you check back in later and let us know how it goes? 

[Turkish]

She said that I don’t have PTSD either because I do not have nightmares about the same incident over and over again and that typically that’s only something war veterans or survivors of a fire/car accident get.

Though none of us here are qualified to give advice on the level of a licensed therapist,  this is BS. I was at the pediatrician yesterday with my kids and saw a flyer for ACE on the real.  How would you rank?

https://acestoohigh.com/got-your-ace-score/

Your mother should have never discussed her marriage to you at any she as a child,  much less at 4. That smacks of emotional or covert incest:

https://bpdfamily.com/content/was-part-your-childhood-deprived-emotional-incest

Regarding her suicide attempt (and that's what it was no matter what her friend is convinced of), you called it in but because you hate her (a hater would have not called it on), but because you were concerned and loved her,  despite the pain she caused and still is causing.  Love is despite,  not because. 

We hear you agotada, and we're with you to support you and heal 

Turkish

[HappyChappy]

I  would agree with Turk, having nightmares about the same incident is very much like military PTSD, from one big traumatic hit. But C-PTSD comes from daily repeated humiliation over a long period, where there was no escape and a lot of fear. It was initially noted in hostage victims, but children of BPD are hostages of a kind.  So of course you won’t be focused on one memory, it will be many. And your flashbacks won’t necessarily be vivid pictures, they are more likely to be numerous different memories from your childhood. But part of your healing will be to deal with each of these memories.

As children if something doesn't make sense, we park that memory until we get more information. So now you've discovered BPD, you need to bring those memories back out, adjust them correctly with your new knowledge, and then put them to sleep again. That way you become "well adjusted".

Some people refer to it as just childhood trauma. But C-PTSD is very new, and many places don't have facilities for the specialism (in my country). Also psychiatrist cure you with drugs, so may not be overly interested in talking therapies, but talking therapies combined with medication is considered the way (in the UK). But the vast majority who have been treated to date are emergency services (mostly army) people.

On your point about getting addicted to anxiety medication, I would speak with you Dr about that, because I believe there are some that are not physically addictive, so worth exploring. Hope this helps 

[Turkish]

My mother was diagnosed with and being treated for PTSD in the 70s-80s due to the abuse she suffered as child (also being orphaned at 12 and 14).

[agotada]

Thank you Turkish for your support! It's really validating to hear that. My sister took the ACE test and her score was 5. I'll take it when I get the chance.

HappyChappy, that's exactly how I would describe it. I have many specific memories and yes, the humiliation occurred almost every day. When she got an aggressive form of cancer when I was a teenager, it was very difficult for me to any accept negative feelings I had because I knew she was dying and I also worshiped her, if that makes sense, even though she blamed my sister and me for giving her cancer/making it worse. She survived it and has been in remission for 12 years.

I thought I had a special bond with my mom and I thought (what I now see as) the way she treated us was justified. She would tell me "secrets" and ask me to keep secrets and despite the constant criticism, I was the favorite child because I complied with everything she asked me and was always over-apologetic. One moment she would flip out and be raging, and the next she'd be "nice mom" or to "crying mom" who would ask for my validation that she did nothing wrong. And I would lie to her and myself that she didn't do anything wrong.

Insom, at the appointment yesterday, I asked the psychiatrist (she's a CRNP) to explain why she didn't think I had OCD. One of my therapists told me she's confident that I have PTSD because PTSD can disguise itself as other disorders (including OCD). I didn't tell the psychiatrist my therapist said this because I was scared. I freeze when I have to question people in authority or people who act very confident and sure of themselves because I am constantly in turmoil with myself and in believing myself. That is why I seek outside validation. I really want to be at the point where I won't need it anymore, but where I am now in my life, I need it. I normally would be hard on myself for not confronting her about the PTSD thing but I've learned self compassion is the only way I've been able to somewhat heal. So yesterday instead of beating myself up about not bringing up my concern with her, I reached out to another psychiatrist who specializes in trauma and his voicemail said it can take a week for him to reply, but I'm hopingI get an appointment with him so I can work with someone I feel comfortable with.

Thanks again everyone for your encouragement and support! I feel so happy to have found this website!

[Harri]

Hi again!   

It is good that you asked about the OCD diagnosis and that you are seeking another opinion so feel good about that.  Questioning authority is hard and yet you did take steps in doing so!  That is great news.  You an't change a lifetime of behavior in an instant so please do not discount what you did achieve.   

It has been a few days since your first post and realizing that you are not alone.  How are you doing with that information now?  Did you have a chance to take the ACE test?  It is interesting when you get your score.  For me attaching a number to my experiences made them more real. 

Let us know how you are doing and please if you have anything else you want to share, feel free to do so.  We are here and listening. 

[agotada]

Thank you Harri! It has definitely helped with me feeling more validated and helped me this past weekend dealing with another family drama involving my dad and his girlfriend. My dad has an alcohol and narcotic addiction problem and has had it for most of my childhood. He is also emotionally abusive and sometimes physically abusive. He likes to play the blame game and blame everyone but himself for all his conflicts and gaslights too. His girlfriend was scared to be alone with him on Saturday so I went to support her and was actually 100% honest with him for the first time about how I feel about our relationship and how I don't trust him and sadly I know his girlfriend is codependent and I don't think she will actually move out, but it's just funny how I feel my sister and I are the parents and our parents are children.
I took the ACE test and I got 5. Yes, it did help a little, I guess just trying to get mom and dad's messages about myself and my experiences out of my head is what is most difficult. I'm really nervous about seeing this psychiatrist next week... .I was trying to write a list of everything I want to talk about because I always go in these appointments thinking I'm lying about everything (when I'm not) because my parents would blame me for being the one lying when they were the ones denying things and lying. I just don't want to freeze or look IDK like a big liar! It's a false belief that is incredibly hard for me to get rid of. I am honest to a fault and it used to be one of my compulsions too. Now I know I don't have to tell people EVERYTHING that goes on in my head and that I am not a bad person for having some privacy haha.

[Panda39]

... it's just funny how I feel my sister and I are the parents and our parents are children.

Hi agotada,

Parentification is unfortunately also a common situation when you have a BPD Parent. 

I have seen this with my significant other's (SO's) daughters and their undiagnosed BPD mother (uBPDmom).  uBPDmom made her older daughter, her best friend and confidant, and parent to both her/mom and her younger sister.  Older daughter was the "Golden Child" which because of enmeshment and parentification has it's own special issues. Older daughter still bullies her younger sister, acts as mom/wife in her father's household even though he objects, and tells her he will handle xyz and even though mom is now out of the picture.  She has learned this role and doesn't see the problems with it. Younger daughter was the "scapegoat" child and she has issues with self esteem, people pleasing, and PTSD.  She has difficulty with confrontation... .particularly with her older sister.

You do not need to be your parent's parent they are adults it is not your job. 

Panda39

[agotada]

Thank you Panda, I need reminded of that sometimes.

Just wanted to give an update. I saw a different psychiatrist today and he verified with me that I do have PTSD and OCD. And what some of you mentioned earlier, you were right. It’s not the diagnosis or name I feel I really need to justify my mom’s action, it’s just the behavior itself that I have so much trouble understanding and accepting. I’ve been trying to learn to grieve the healthy parents I will never have, and that is what will be most difficult, along with also accepting that my childhood wasn’t normal and that they were abusiva. The hardest ingrained thought that I’ve been struggling to untangle and rid of is that I’m a liar like my parents said and I’m just trying to make them look bad because I’m a bad person. Although none of my actions reflect that, other than me sharing my experiences, I believe their  illogicalness and the only time I feel 100% sure of myself is when I get angry enough, which has happened a few times in my life. I just wanted to thank you all again for being so supportive and helping me with this internal conflict of mine. Hope you all have a nice holiday!

[Harri]

Hi again.  I am so relieved you went to  different therapist.  Will you be seeing this one regularly to help you process the abuse your experienced?

Your parents calling you a liar sounds like denial and possibly projection.  projection is a defense mechanism used by pwBPD to get rid of all the bad feelings and thoughts about themselves by 'projecting' them on others.  You can read more about it here:  https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=70931.0

I hope that gives a bit of clarity on this.  Please let me know your thoughts.  In the meantime, anger is a good thing if you channel it and use it to help you break through the brainwashing that occurred during your childhood and is still happening now.

[agotada]

That is very interesting you mention projection because both my mom and dad do this, and sometimes my sister.

My mom and dad accuse me of not caring about them by describing their own behavior and not mine, while I have been emotionally neglected by them my whole life and feel guilty when people do actually meet my needs.

I am always accused of being the "crazy one" in the family because I sleep a lot and don't work as meticulously and hard as they do (they both have OCD tendencies with rituals and cleaning and I have been medicated for my OCD since I was 9.) My mom would sometimes be vacuuming my room at 1 AM. She'd always yell about how we did nothing (because the dishes we washed weren't cleaned well enough, ect). Occasionally she would barge in our room in the early morning screaming at us for something she did. Once when my sister was 19, she parked her car behind the one my dad just bought my mom. (My dad has all this money to spend and none of us knows where he gets it. And yes, he bought my mom a car 15 years after divorcing her.) My mom wasn't used to my sister having a car in the driveway and she backed up into it denting my sisters car (and not hers). She made the biggest fuss and commotion yelling how irresponsible my sister was, even though there was a lot of room for my mom to back out. My mom used to get in a car accident every year.


Anyway, my dad started talking to my mom again and he texted me, "I heard what you said about your mom, and how you made up that she wanted to chop up her boyfriend in a million pieces and put him in a wood chipper. How disgusting of you." My mom said that but she accused me of making up that she said it.

When I visited her in the hospital, she was raging about how awful my sister was for telling the doctors that (because the doctor asked her about it and she assumed my sister said it since she blames my sister for almost everything.) I took the blame for telling the doctor this even though it was my sister because my sister has always been the main target of projection from my mom. The day we admitted my mom in the hospital, she screamed at my sister, "You're a fame whore and a snitch. You just put me in here to get attention on the internet and to get a boyfriend." Yes, she blamed my sister for putting her in the hospital so that she could talk on the "internet" about it because CLEARLY the biggest attraction for getting a boyfriend/girlfriend is sharing that you have a mother who is mentally ill... .
I guess that's not projection, but my mom does like being the center of attention so, yes I see that tendency to project a lot.

I am seeing the psychiatrist again on Wednesday so yes, I believe he will be helping me in regards to treatment going on from here on out. He really wants me to get intensive outpatient therapy for trauma, so I'll have to figure out how I'll get that to work with my schedule. I've been working at my company for almost a year but I need to read my manual about what my benefits are here and if I can take time off for mental illness... .I'm not well informed of any laws that might benefit people who have mental illness, but if I'm able to change my hours or decrease hours but not lose pay, I'd really be grateful because the depression and stress of all of these events with my family recently have been making it so hard for me to focus. I feel like I should win an award for biggest slacker even though I know I'm not a slacker, my depression has just been so bad that it takes all of my energy just to get through the day. I am normally a perfectionist with my work but it's been hard for me to keep up to those impossible standards so I feel I've almost been completely giving up and doing the bare minimum, which I feel guilty about. Anyway, thanks again for your support. I'm finally having hope that things will be more stable soon and despite how hard it might be to change my thinking patterns, I'm know I'm going in the right direction.

[Harri]

Hi again!  I'm glad the link on projection helped.  It does seem to fit.

I know I'm not a slacker, my depression has just been so bad that it takes all of my energy just to get through the day. I am normally a perfectionist with my work but it's been hard for me to keep up to those impossible standards so I feel I've almost been completely giving up and doing the bare minimum, which I feel guilty about. Anyway, thanks again for your support. I'm finally having hope that things will be more stable soon and despite how hard it might be to change my thinking patterns, I'm know I'm going in the right direction.

yes, I get how depression can make things so much harder, even the easy stuff.  Perfectionism though is not a good thing!  Do you think it is a problem or am I taking that comment too seriously? 

Anyway, it is good that you are going to therapy and I hope you are able to work out a way to get the trauma therapy.  My T recommended intensive day treatment for PTSD but I just can't afford it. 

You most definitely are going in the right direction and it is wonderful to see!  keep up the good work.   

[Learning2Thrive]

Hello agotada!  

I’m impressed with the progress you’re making. I just wanted to pop in to say hello and join the others in letting you know you are not alone and it does get better... .not perfect and maybe not in the way you wish or think it should, but it’s very possible to have a wonderful, rewarding and rich life through recovery.

I don’t know if you’re familiar with Pete Walker and his works on cPTSD, but I just recently discovered his website—thanks to Harri and Wools—and have been immersed in it. So much healing information. Here’s the link in case you want to poke around and see if anything resonates with you:

www.pete-walker.com/fAQsComplexPTSD.html

[Harri]

Hello again agotada. 

I've been wondering how you are doing so I figured I would write to you here.  Did you have a chance to look at the website Learning2Thrive gave in her post?  How's therapy going?

Stop by and let us know how you are doing when you get a chance.

Take care

[agotada]

Thank you all again  for being so understanding and caring. Without this website, it’s so hard for me to find people who understand the dynamics of having two parents with borderline personality disorder and traits.

Harri - No, no misinterpretation, perfectionism is a problem I’ve always struggled with. I think it’s just from both of my parents being perfectionists and expecting my sister and I to be perfect (which I think is probably common in a lot of families, even though it’s nog healthy). And my deep rooted fear is that if I don’t do things with all the effort I have, even if it’s draining or killing me, people will be mad at me or disapproving which is one of my biggest triggers and also I feel isolated because when I react, people get confused or assume I have very poor emotional control issues. I had disorder eating for nine years (bulimia and sort of but not quite anorexia). What got me out of it was having so many medications that made me nauseous and stopped me from bingeing.

I have not had the chance at looking at the learning2thrive post still. There’s been more family drama with my dad, mom and sister and it’s probably the post I should be going to during this time.

I still haven’t heard back from my psychiatrist about when I will be able to start intensive outpatient. If I’m able to, I’ll HAVE to pay in payments because most of my money goes to medical issues (I pay for premium insurance but the deductible to meet is still very high and copayments are high, and hospital visits, yeah those are scary high ). And where I live, I looked into some of the hospitals’ treatment programs and I don’t see any that offer intensive outpatient for trauma or PTSD, so I’m assuming the reason why it’s been taking so long?

Learning2thriv: Thank you for your recommendation about Pete Walker. I will definitely check it out! And also, thank you for saying you are impressed by my progress because that’s often hard for me to recognize. It’s almost a blessing I was diagnosed with OCD so young, otherwise it may have taken me a lot longer to go to therapy as an adult.

[agotada]

So I do have an update. I told my mom when she was released from the hospital that I would not see her unless we get family therapy. I kind of broke part of what I said by texting her back when she writes to me, because she’s mainly only been writing about the family cat she adored that was diagnosed with a fatal virus FIPS last week. She and my sister put him to sleep this past Saturday and my sister was mad that I wasn’t going (but she later apologized and was also self aware her anger was there because she depends on me for all her emotional support and she needs it a lot when death is involved). My sister had been seeing my mom and has said my mom will complain about me and talks about me most of the time she is with her. But strangely she has been a lot more mindful about the therapy and even corrected herself one time with my sister saying, “I’m sorry, I need to be the mother I never was to you.” This shocked me. And also really confused me. My mom NEVER would verbally admit that.

 She asked me to dinner through text yesterday and I told her no and was expecting her not to reply back or say something short because saying no to her always has bad repercussions, but her reply was actually ok... .And she was talking about dbt and the wise mind and was acting like a Buddha and I was so confused! She does go through periods where she’ll randomly switch to being really nice, which always pulls me back in until she verbally attacks me out of nowhere,  but her behavior has had me questioning if she really has borderline.

She hasn’t been drinking since she left the hospital (I think not drinking for a week helped her with that), so it could explain why she’s doing so well (along with a month of intensive outpatient) But I’m confused how like a light switch, she’s accepting therapy and is ok with it. I seriously feel crazy. It’s taken me years for therapy to change my thinking patterns  and my dad has done intensive outpatient numerous times and he still never changed his habits or behavior patterns. And she like a miracle has seemed to change drastically within a month everything.
 Something just doesn’t feel right.

My other relatives haven’t called me because my mom has been asking them every week she sees them if I have been talking to them and they lie and say no because they are afraid of her, or hurting her. But it’s left me in complete isolation from my family because I don’t want to call them and make them feel uncomfortable that they feel they have to lie to my mom about it. It’s really hard.

My Nanna and aunt said my mom apologized to them. My aunt asked if she apologized to me yet, and she said no, and my aunt said “you need to” and my mom got mad at her for saying that.

My sister said that our mom said sorry to her too, but when I questioned my sister more about it, she said “Well she didn’t SAY sorry but she was being really nice to me and talking about how therapy was helping her.”

She has  not apologized to me, which is what I always expect with her, but she has been texting me like nothing happened. So I’m just puzzled and feeling worried that my gut that tells me she has borderline isn’t leading me in the right direction, and I already REALLY struggle to trust my in intuition and even reality about everything, so what I need most now is validation that I’m not crazy and she has it, let that I’m not a bad person for accusing her of having it. I really want her to have it though as mean as it sounds so I don’t feel so guilty about thinking she has it and to give me a logical explanation of how she treated me her while life. A trigger is when I am falsely accused of lying and I question my self when my mom and dad do this to me so if I find out she doesn’t have it, emotionally it’s going to be very hard for me to process it.

I’m still scared to see her in person but also feel guilty for not wanting to see her because she’s acting nice. I feel crazy and unreasonable BUT I also struggle with assertiveness and setting boundaries so, yeah, I don’t know.

[Panda39]

Hi agotada,

I just wanted to say that it is natural based on your past experience with your mom for you to be suspicious, you've been burned and don't want to get burned again. To me your suspicion makes absolute sense.

It is okay to just do nothing... .watch and wait.  You've asked for family therapy and I would stick to that. 

Your mom is doing a lot of things here... .I see FOG (Fear, Obligation, Guilt)... .making you Fearful that you will be looked at as a bad person for being cautious/suspicious of her behaviors, feeling Obligated to back down from your boundary because she's now being "good", and Guilty for have suspicions and setting a boundary.

But when you clear away the FOG she still hasn't agreed to go to family therapy.

I would stick to your boundary... .When we back down from a boundary the other person learns what they have to do to get you to back down.  So in this case If you back off your boundary of Family Therapy, then your mom has learned that all she has to do is be "good" for a short period of time, make you feel guilty and you will give her what she wants.

I will say though that taking alcohol out of the mix is a good thing and is a helpful thing so that is a good first step... .but it still isn't therapy.

Hang in there,
Panda39

[Libra]

Hi Agotada,

Good for you for setting boundaries. That is an important step. 

I am struggling with a lot of similar feelings at the moment:
After a raging session from my mother and 3 months of NC as a consequence, I have been back in LC with her for the last 3 months. She has been on her best behaviour ever since. It has made me wonder if it's actually all me that is the problem.
But I am still keeping my guard up, and keeping my distance emotionally. She hurt me too much last time round, and I am not willing to get any closer to her any more.
Although I know I am doing this for my own sanity and emotional health, it still causes me a great deal of doubt and guilt. I have to force myself not to fall into my old role (keeping very regular contact to prevent her from feeling lonely, being her emotional punching bag, ... .).

Lately I have been wondering though, if my new approach might partially be helping my mother to be on er best behaviour? Keeping my distance and not getting emotionally involved might also put less pressure on her and might motivate her?

Could this also be the case with your mother?

Setting boundaries is good and healthy. Don't give in, despite the feelings of guilt and doubt.

Libra

[Learning2Thrive]

Hi Agotada   

I just wanted to pop in and let you know you are being thought of today. I am sending you positive energy, gentle hugs and smiles. Hang in there with your boundaries. Healthy boundaries are a good thing.

  L2T

[Harri]

Hi agotada  I am glad you came back and gave an update. 

I don't think you are crazy and I don't think you made a mistake or made this up in your head.  Based on her disordered behavior I think BPD is a pretty close to accurate label.  The alcohol added in does make it more complicated as many of the behaviors of addiction are also found in BPD (and other disorders).  I know what it is like to question your own sanity about this.  Fight it.  You know that the way she teated you was wrong and you did not deserve it.  Own that.  The immediate present does not erase the past.  Keep to your boundaries like the others have said.

The biggest danger here to to go back to thinking you were crazy for your conclusions about her past behavior based on a so far short term improvement.  She was just hospitalized, in rehab had intensive therapy... .all of that is reality.

Your mother is not either BPD or not BPD.  She is disordered whether she is behaving well or not. 

Does that help?

[agotada]

Wow, thank you so much again everyone.i have found out from my sister that she has been doing a lot of the things she has always done again (with the exeption of drinking), and is still angry that my sister and I put her in the hospital, and that she is still very mad at me. She was mad at my sister for saying no to her when my mom wanted to go swimming and my sister had a severe bacteria infection and a painful rash. And my sister said she was mad at my Nanna (who is the nicest in the whole family, because she thinks my Nanna still favors her older sisters and she accuses my Nanna of talking to me when I haven’t. My Nanna though DOES lie to her when she talks to my sister or me because my mom gets very jealous and Nanna doesn’t want mom mad at her or is. I don’t care if mom is mad at me for seeing relatives however I have stopped seeing my Nanna and other relatives because they are scared of her and I feel like when I visit them and not mom I am putting them in the middle. I had to say no to my cousin’s sons second birthday party next weekend because I know my mom will be there and she is still one of my biggest emotional triggers and it won’t be healthy for me to see her, because I feel if I go, I am going back on what I said, and I am the most assertive when I feel mad and justified, but right now my two strongest feelings are fear and guilt and going to the party with those feelings and seeing mom might make things hard. I guess I’m going to have to learn how to regulate and manage the guilt I feel, probably going to be a long process. Panda, I have never heard of FOG but that describes the situation I face with her exactly. And thank you for sharing Libra. I agree that it is better off because By setting this boundary she cannot manipulate me. And Learning2thrive and Harri, thank you for always being so encouraging. I really appreciate it

[zachira]

Agotada in Spanish means exhausted. Your name fits your post about how you are just plain fed up with your mother's behaviors and can't take anymore. I was wondering what you are doing to keep yourself safe and feeling better. I have a BPD mother and for years I was always emotionally falling off a cliff even when she was not present because I had learned from her to be upset all the time. Now I am feeling so much better, and I am hoping you are starting to feel some relief from so much trauma and pain. How are you doing now? Do you have moments of peace and joy? What do you love to do and how do you like to spend time that makes you forget all the pain? What are your dreams? My heart goes out to you. Please keep us posted on how you are doing and let us know how we can help.

[Panda39]

Panda, I have never heard of FOG but that describes the situation I face with her exactly.

Hi agotada,

I wanted to share more about FOG (Fear, Obligation, Guilt) or emotional blackmail, links below... .

https://bpdfamily.com/content/emotional-blackmail-fear-obligation-and-guilt-fog
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=82926.0

Panda39

[agotada]

Hi Zachira - yes that's exactly why I made agotada my username. I am really happy to hear that you've reached a place where you feel better, and I appreciate you and everyone else sharing with me your experiences because I've never met a person in life that has experienced something similar and growing up in such an invalidating environment leaves me constantly questioning myself.

I am actually feeling relief from her suicide attempt in June - and I still have no idea if she was actually intending to hurt herself or if she lied about the number of pills she actually took to get what she was needing emotionally. I have kept the boundaries I set and it has mostly benefited me. The only downfall is that I only have family support from my sister, but really I feel that's how it's always been.

It's really hard for me to think of a time when I was well and not depressed or anxious. The times I felt the most motivated were when I forced myself to keep busy and occupied, like in school, so that I didn't have time to feel anything. I sometimes enjoy dancing but recently social anxiety, perfectionism and depression have been making it not that fun. My dream right now is to feel authentic self-worth and compassion and be able to trust myself. And that will be a long and difficult journey since I've never felt those things, or at least don't have memory of it.

I recently broke up with a boyfriend I was dating for almost a year. I knew after a month that we weren't emotionally compatible and our values were different, but I prefer settling and also feel embarrassed about my emotional reaction when I have to bring up anything that's a conflict, and can be hard on myself that what I'm seeing as a problem is "borderline" like my mom or that I'm being selfish. Me telling myself that is not valid information but it still feels SO TRUE and real and I don't know how to shake that off! It's incredibly frustrating. I broke up after I found out I'm pregnant... .made me come to realization that I did not want to spend my whole life with the guy and it brought up so many feelings of guilt and shame to break up with him and they are still lingering because I hate hate hate knowing I'm responsible for hurting someone's feelings or triggering someone, and I know this was more painful for him since I'm carrying his child. I am not financially or emotionally capable of providing for a child so I automatically thought adoption would be best. He did not agree and wanted me to either abort it or we take care of it. After breaking up, he has agreed to adoption however I know that THAT will be something more to add on my grief list as well as grieving our relationship that ended. I don't plan on telling my mom or anyone in my family I'm pregnant. Right now all I have is my sister because I don't feel comfortable confiding in people... .I feel they don't care, I'm bothering them, or that I can't trust them. I'm grateful for this website.

Also, thank you again Panda39 for the resources about FOG! That is a cycle I experience from my mom and I inflict it on myself all the time.

[Harri]

Right now all I have is my sister because I don't feel comfortable confiding in people... .I feel they don't care, I'm bothering them, or that I can't trust them. I'm grateful for this website.

Hi.  I am glad you posted.  We really do care and even though it is online, the ties that can form here are pretty strong.  I understand not wanting to share information about your pregnancy (or really anything that makes you vulnerable) with your mother. 

What can I do to support you through this time?