His kids have it: BPD boyfriend's son is self-harming

[Calmcollected]

Something sad, but interesting has happened. I called it 6 months ago, but my BPD boyfriends 17 year old son has started self harming. He didn’t want to talk about it 2 weeks ago. But today he did. I kindly and in a non threatening way talked about what I was sure it was. I talked a little about the causes, that it is in no way his fault. (The mother has been an alcoholic & prescription drug user) absent since his kids were under 4. She is poisonous to them. I explained how it is mainly managed by counselling. He had to have an emergency session this week for the self harm. My boyfriend is extremely high functioning. Despite the fact he hasn’t been diagnosed, I find the tools on this site have changed our relationship dramatically and he has been open to change & seeing my point of view. It is so much healthier than 6 months ago now that I’ve learned validation techniques.
This will be a weird situation because I’m educating him on the symptoms of this disorder and showing him how it’s likely his daughter has it too.
I’m hoping this could be a change for him as well and recognition. Years ago my boyfriend had been diagnosed as bi-polar. With my back ground in mental health and a close family member who did have it, I know its BPD.
I’m hoping this is a turning point for all of them.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[pearlsw]

Hi CalmCollected,

Glad to hear the tools here have been of such benefit to you! It's nice to hear about successes.

For anyone else who is interested here's the link: Validation

May I ask which symptoms he has and how you figured out it was not bipolar?

Is the teenager who is self-harming going to get some ongoing counseling for this issue?

I'm in a similar boat. I think a few of his family members have also had mental health issues. In a way, I think it makes him feel less alone about it.

take care, pearl.

[Calmcollected]

My boyfriends are
Tumultuous relationships (married 3 times and 5 kids with 4 different mothers)
 fear of abandonment (I know you’ve found someone else, this is it, I guess you’re leaving) even when there is no problems.
He drank for 5 years about 20 years ago, but stopped
Explosive anger (but this has decreased dramatically in the last year)
Feeling empty (hes told me he always feels like there is a hole inside of him)
Sense of identity can be skewed, he mirrors. He changes his personality to match those around him. When his sons 20 year old friends are around he starts to act like them, when his daughter is around, she is always angry and he becomes angry too. With me, he becomes calmer.
He has black and white thinking and he has painted me and one of his kids black. ( that 34 year old “kid”  is very bad) Lately I have been able to start to get him to see shades of grey in certain situations.
He’s also suspicious of friendships. Always looking for an angle of why people want to be his friend or why they would even like him. Even friends that have been around for 30 years. I have to remind him of the good things they have done for him. He gets hurt if one didn’t wave at him and it becomes a big thing.
His mother left when he was 2 and his father beat the daylights out of him. I’m not sure if he every self harmed, but two of his kids I know have. .

[pearlsw]

Hi CalmCollected 

Thanks, that gives an interesting picture of what's been going on with him.

So, may I ask, which tools aside from Validation have you been using and what changes have you seen? What has made a difference for you two? Have you seen a difference in terms of anger?  What do you do to maintain your own health with this extra emotional work towards him involved?

take care, pearl.

[Calmcollected]

Validation has been the biggest game changer. I tried counselling, after 2 sessions she said I didn’t really need it. That I have a really good handle on things and a healthy way of thinking. I recognized my co dependency issues that were happening and reversed them. I have never been like that in a relationship before.
 In his life I put up boundaries and stepped back from trying to fix everything (his business wise, and focused on my own) he has stepped up to the plate and has taken over. I will step in an help when things are overwhelming (like when he has 3 job sites on the go, but I do let him fail, so he sees the consequences of what happens when something I previously did, is not done. For example over staffing leads to loss of profit.)
He hired back his oldest son who was fired last year. I knew it was a bad decision and so did he. He said that he knew i didnt think it was a good idea. I told him I supported him in whatever decision he made. He put boundaries in place with his son and also showed supprt for me. He told him if he missed a shift he was done. If he pulled any of the crap he pulled with me last year, he was done as well (he was verbally abusive with me, turned new staff against me and would be disrespectful as well. It was a poisonous and stressful environment. At the end of construction season, the people he turned against me apologized because they could finally see the dynamics)
He started last week and he is all ready done. Worked 2 full days, went home early the third and didn’t show up for the rest. Lied for the fourth day where he was and he was seen around town . He’s a 34 year old man who sells drugs. He met a woman who is moving here to be with him. Begged his father for a job because he was going to turn his life around for her. After 2 months of knowing her “she’s the woman he’s going to marry”. He was panicked because she will be here in 3 weeks and I’m guessing she doesn’t know what he really does.
It was a big step for my boyfriend to stand up on my behalf to this son. I validated the hell out of the situation, its always tumultuous with his kids. They make him feel he has to choose me or them. I let him know I won’t do that. That when it comes down to it, they are scared of losing him too. If he puts boundaries regarding me in place, they will resect him more.
His anger is almost non existent. He is recognizing situations for what they are and is thinking them through instead of acting immediately on them. It still pops up, but nothing like three years ago. Its more like crankiness, where before he would rage so hard that afterward he would have a hand tremor from the adrenaline and I would fear a heart attack.
From these boards I have learned the value of giving space and when to give it.
There used to be other women he would talk to for validation and to lift him up. He didn’t meet them, but didn’t let them know about me. He always kept an inactive POF account. Since I have started validating, he closed the account and doesn’t talk to the others anymore. I can let him know when I’m feeling unloved, and he makes an effort to do the things I ask for to make me feel loved.
I feel growth or I wouldnt still be here.

[Calmcollected]

Yesterday By accident I found a bad review on Yelp disparaging me by name for my business. I looked at the name, connections and realized that my BPD boyfriends out of town visiting niece had left it, after spending the day with his daughter who hates me. I went from a high rating to a 2. Online ratings are extremely important in my line of business as it effects website orders. I was devastated. I have gone above and beyond for his daughter. My income carries us thrugh the slow times with his business. By harming me, she harms him too. I went through a range of emotions. Extreme hurt that turned to anger. I brought him along for the ride. I demanded that he deal with it and put up boundaries with his daughter. He agreed to deal with it, but he didnt have to as I had it flagged. It ws the most emotionally draining day, knowing people I have been nothing but good to, tried to destroy me.
On the drive home a light bulb went off. I realized that my boyfriend feels like this on a daily basis. With his kids at him, me, work obligations and running his business, I finally understood.
I called him and let him know what I was thinking and how I finally understood. He seemed relieved and thankful. It was a moment that brought us closer together.

[Radcliff]

Wow, Calmcollected, you seem so, um, calm and collected!  Seriously, I'm impressed with what you've accomplished!  You've focused on your own behaviors, give your bf compassionate support with boundaries, and you're working effectively with him.  When I started reading, I worried that this situation may be extremely difficult due to the fact that you were dealing with your bf's BPD issues and his son's self harming.  I was impressed in reading your post how you and your bf have worked together to handle other tough issues.  I know that doesn't come easy -- it's hard work for both of you.  The big new thing here seems to be his son's self harming.  Have you considered posting over on the son/daughter board to get some feedback from parents who've experienced having a child with self-harming behaviors?

Back to your relationship, it sounds like you've nailed validation and boundaries.  That's huge!  Are there any remaining issues with your relationship that you'd like to see an improvement in?

WW

[Calmcollected]

I am going to go over there and start reading. Once I stopped letting all the behaviours get my own emotions all roiled up, I have a much better handle on things. I think that is one of the good things in this situation as a medical health professional. The ability to step back and see it clinically. Understand the emotions behind the behaviour.
One thing that has worked to calm things faster is when he pushes, thats it, its over, if you can’t stop, change, do this different etc etc. I have the best response that calms him immediately. I say “nice try, but you’re not getting rid of me that easily. I love you and I’m not going anywhere” play punch him in the arm or gut and it gets him laughing. His push aways are much less dramatic, no anger. Its almost like he half heartedly tries. Its more force of hanit more than anything.
The thing that I’d like see happen is us to move in together. Its hard when 3 out of 5 kids hate me. They are used to him being at his beck and call. They use him and when they dont need him, they treat him like garbage. I’d like to learn ways to help him be able to set boundaries with his kids.

[Radcliff]

I'm sorry if I missed it, but I don't think you mentioned anything about DBT with respect to your boyfriend.  Any chance of selling DBT to him as skills training that can help with the super advanced challenge of dealing with difficult kids?  I thought of that when you mentioned you were hoping he could learn boundaries.  If he sees DBT as something he's doing to strengthen his role as a father, not as something to fix him or something to please you, perhaps he'd go for it?

WW

[Calmcollected]

He absolutely refuses counselling of any kind. I bought the book for high conflict couples and he says if I adk him again, he will block me. I have been using them on him, but we took 5 steps backwards. The dynamics changed this morning. Last week I had talked to him about spending more time together. We had set a time last week for just the 2 of us, and again his kids who are adults came first. I got really upset and let him onlw thatI felt unloved and pushed to the back. The next day we were out together for his business and I said I wanted to spend time with him that evening. You could tell he really wanted to make me happy and was upset because he had made a couple of commitments that day. He said he felt backed into a corner trying to make everyone happy. I was encouraged because I could see he didnt want to disappoint me. Yesterday I said we would make plans today. When I called this morning to see what we were going to do, everything was my fault for called the police when I received a threatening text at the beginning of the year. It was his daughter. “If I had not done that, we wouldnt have any problems.” He said he’s going to sell everything and just move away.  His kids are making him choose between them and me. He of course will choose them. They use him and treat him like crap. Its really sad. Its 3 out of 5 that hate me.
Its another kick in the stomach. I can’t get out of bed. I’m not  going to, but I keep thinking how much easier it would be just to go to sleep and never wake up. It would be nice to just feel nothing for once. I think I need to separate myself from them now. I don’t need to develop PTSD from this. I sent him a note about setting boundaries with them. That is what is required to start to fix this situation. I left him with that. If he can’t start standing up to them and setting boundaries, that I can’t stay and be bullied anymore.

[Radcliff]

Ouch!  I am sorry, it must be so discouraging to battle headwinds with his kids.  That feeling of just wanting to disappear makes total sense given the discouraging situation, though it's a danger sign that you need support.  What does the rest of your support system look like?  Do you have close friends and family who you can spend time with, even if you're not discussing heavy issues, to feel supported and have some goodness?  Or are you more isolated?

WW

[Calmcollected]

Its going to sound crazy, but I reached out to his ex girlfriend he lived with that was his last relationship when I was going through a terrible time with his youngest son 6 months ago. They’ve been broken up for 5 years. She never really understood what was going on then and we both have become friends online, and find it therapeutic. She understands now what she was dealing with back then and it has given her closure. I also have counselling if I need it. Things got better immediately after my last post. I am about to be paid out from my divorce & I wanted to have a serious conversation with him about where we are going and if we are moving forward. I told him about things progressing and I needed to make some decisions. I told him this when I dropped off his lunch, no one was around and he got seriously upset I “ruined his day” at work and needed to wait until 5. I went back at 5 and he had left to bring gravel to my brothers for a fire pit. I know he was avoiding. The next day I asked if we could talk and he was tired, it was friday & he needed to relax. To stop pushing him, even though I wasn’t. He said Saturday, but I was working and couldnt. He said call Saturday and we’ll figure it out. I see him in person at noon, he came to help me fix my trailer. As he was leaving I asked what time tomorrow. He got extremely upset, raised his voice a little and got upset I was asking when he “clearly told me to call in the evening”. After a long day I went home and slept. I called at 8, we talked about our days and then I brought up meeting to talk about things. He said, “call me later I said”, I call at ten and avoidance again,but agreed to sometime in the afternoon and to call him in the morning. I call this morning and he is coming to town later, but has so much to do. Call later. I know his avoidance was being scared of what I had to say and was I going to leave him. Finally at noon I nail him down and set a time of 2pm. I chose the location and I picked a nature reserve with wooded trails and a waterfall. This threw him off a bit because it was different. He is of native American descent and I know he feels calmer surrounding by trees and water. He didn’t want to get out of his truck, but I was heading to the trail and was on my way. He had the ability to leave once I started, but I think the water calmed him. I was non judgemental, was able to go over issues from 6 months ago to the present, and so did he. He asked why I was bringing up the past. I told him it was like a garden. You have to pull out the weeds as they come, because if you don’t, it gets out of control and chokes all the plants. I also said I felt like I was holding onto a rope and slipping, that no one was reaching out to pull me up. He actually gave an analogy of his own of his feelings.
 When we had broken up in January/February, he had gone out with a woman, and I had gone out with two men. He asked how many times, and I told him. This ended things quickly. He was upset, but not raging. He walked back 100’ in front of me, but waited until I caught up. He still remained calm, we talked. I told him that nothing had happened and I talked to them about him and they talked about their separations. He was jealous, but I reminded him he started dating, and I did the same thing, only after he had done so. We calmly spoke some more. He was upset and asked if he could leave, I said of course he could, I would talk to him tomorrow. He left and it felt right. For the first time ever I was able to validate during a conversation, not just by text.
A couple of hours later I sent him this.
“You are the love of my life. I know it was hard & you were scared of what I had to say. It meant a lot to me that you did. I know you are hurting too. Today we both made an effort. Its how we start to heal. I felt like I was losing us, but you tried today & I felt hope. This week can we please make time to spend a quiet evening at home together, being normal with no fighting? Just having supper & watching tv? We need to start sharing our life together to get better.”
After that, he sent random calm texts, not about anything in particular and I sent this.
“Thank you for being brave & coming today. I know it wasn't easy. I was scared too. ”
Step foward.

[Radcliff]

Wow!  You were both brave!  Great work on the validation!   That took real guts for you to bring up real issues and not be afraid of his actions.  You were also thoughtful in picking a setting you knew would be calming to him.  Impressive!

How have things gone the last couple of days?

WW

[Calmcollected]

Better, but I jaded tonight because I’m hurt. We were supposed to spend tomorrow afternoon and evening together. Tonight he tells me that his son is having a big family get together tomorrow so the two families of his son and his 2 month girlfriend that is giving up her hygienist practice a 21 hour car ride away to be with his drug dealing son that she thinks works in construction for my BPDbf, can meet each other. His son was on a dating profile in march. Mid july and hes going to marry this girl. Shes moving her whole life and her son to be with someone she does not know! Of course because of the hate, I would never be invited to any family get together’s. That dysfunction alone is making me want to run. Christmas will be the same. I’m starting to think of the long term implications. He still tells his kids we’re not together. I just don’t know. I’m starting to feel like giving up.

[Radcliff]

I'm sorry, that doesn't feel good at all to be ditched for an event you're not invited to.  And to be thinking this early in the year that Christmas will be the same way is sad.  Thinking ahead to Christmas, can you be proactive to think about a Christmas you'd like to have?  Perhaps travel to see family?

It's natural to be discouraged about the relationship at a time like this, and healthy to be thoughtful about what you want long term.  Whatever course you take with the relationship, bpdfamily is here for you.

You said you JADEd.  Tell us more.  What did you say?  Do you see alternative ways you could have talked that were less JADEy but still authentically communicating your feelings?

WW

[Calmcollected]

I purposely sent him a meme that I knew would set him off describing how its better to be alone than with someone that doesn’t care about you. It didn’t get too crazy after. I validated the heck out of it.
All my family is here for Christmas, so I spend it with them on Christmas eve as they all have in laws. Last Christmas I did spend it with him, I bought the groceries just in case because he couldnt commit just in case his kids wanted to spend it with him. Of course they didn’t. So at 11am I was given the go ahead.
The family “event” he went to I knew he would not feel comfortable at and I was right. The new girlfriend of his son is well educated and the family is well off. He felt out of place and looked down on. There was a big fight between his son and girlfriend over someone she invited. Not surprising, I had given it 6 months. This is not an event I would have wanted to go to. Its just the fact I know we will be living 2 different existences for the rest of our lives if we do remain together.
His son has been away and occupied with her, so its been a lot less drama with him. His daughter has a boyfriend and has been with him. He works out of town, so she takes up a lot of my boyfriends time when he is gone for work. His 17 year old is having some mental health issues, and is finally getting psychiatric help. He of course is a priority, but then that leaves me alone most of the time. I have a full life, but I’m also looking for a life partner.

[Radcliff]

Even without BPD in the mix, with his kids' issues, that's a challenging situation.

Looking at your needs in the relationship, where's the biggest gap?  If you could pick one thing to make better, what would it be?

WW

[Calmcollected]

To spend actual quality time together or to have my needs met for once.

[Calmcollected]

Well, today I put up a boundary. We were supposed to spend the day together. We were going to also work on quotes for his business together. Instead he came to town and we picked up a bed together. Them he handed me the quotes to do on my own. I asked if we were going to and he said he didnt feel like fighting. I declined taking them. He them talked about if I wanted to bail, then bail. We’ll end it right here. I told him I wasn’t bailing, but I wasnt going to make time for him, if he couldnt make time for me. He then brought up me going on dates when we were broken up, and tried to turn blame on me. He also said I was forcing him to choose me over his kids.  I went to my truck and cried and he drove off.
We haven’t spent any quality time together since we broke up in January and got back together in March. I’ve bee at his house twice.
I sent him this text an hour ago.
“I support you always and make time whenever you need it because I love you. I know you love me, but I don't feel it. I've been saying for the last month that I feel unloved. I need to see an effort.
Lets have one evening together at the house just being together. If we fight, then you were right, but I know we won't.
Last time we were together was New Years and it was nice. I miss cooking you supper & watching Tv together. I don't ask for anything. This is all I'm asking for.”
I haven’t received a response.

[Calmcollected]

He sent a text saying I f’ing lied about how many date I had been on I replied and he would say stop messaging me, but keep going. I replied to replied to the last one and in a validating way. The last message he sent was this “I'm blocking you   I asked you nicely and you don't care”
Obviously I didn’t. I know this is all in response to my boundary, but it still hurts.

[Radcliff]

I am sorry, it sounds like you are receiving so much negativity from him, and not any support or validation.  That has got to be very discouraging.

Can you please explain the bed, quotes, and boundary a little bit more?  I didn't follow exactly what happened and how the boundary happened.

Can you tell us more about the time you spend together?  You've only been to his place twice in seven months.  Does he come to yours?  Do you work together daily?

WW

[Calmcollected]

We work together, we will do things together throughout the day, errands, going for lunch.
We were supposed to spend the afternoon and evening together. Plans in the last month have been made to do this, but keep getting pushed back because of his adult children. Right now I’m in a living situation where he can’t come over.
We were going to do quotes together as well while I was out there.  He bought a bed and frame in town, I helped him with it. Then I asked what we were doing and he said he doesn’t want me at the house because there is always fighting. There isn’t fighting ever. I believe the fighting is with his kids over me. Then he tried to hand me the quotes and asked if I wanted them. I told him I didn’t think so. He said if you’re going to bail on me, then lets just break up now. I said I wasn’t bailing, but I wasn’t going to put effort in if he wasn’t going to. Then he said I was forcing him to choose his kids over me. I told him no, he has adult children who have lives of their own. Then he kept bringing up the fact I went out on multiple dates and he only went out on one.
I feel I had to put up a boundary of not doing his quotes. I’ve stopped doing almost everything else. This was the last thing I do for him.

[Radcliff]

Are you paid to work with him, or are you helping because of the relationship?  Were the quotes something you did because of work, or as a personal favor to him because of the relationship?

How have things been going the last few days?

WW

[Calmcollected]

I practically ran the business in the beginning. As time has gone on, I have stepped back considerably, but still do the marketing, invoicing and typing up estimates and taking calls. I do not get paid. We used to go to his house, have supper, do what needed to be done and then spend the evening together. In january when his son physically pushed me out of the house, I called the police & didn’t have him charged, just spoken to, it all ended. We broke up at that time because my BPDbf wouldn’t answer my calls and went out for coffee with a woman a couple of days later & she put on facebook in less than a week they were “in a relationship” he immediately removed it. I started dating too. He found out I was and decided he didn’t like me doing that. After a month, we got back together, but I was never allowed at the house because of his son. Before I would work on the estimates with him. Now he writes them up and I just type them out. This past week he was behind and there were 8 to do. They were all missing major components, email, address of job etc. He will not be able to do this on his own without me. More than one job site & he starts melting down. He always has 2 jobs sites because he is trying to keep his other 34 year old drug dealing son employed so that his girlfriend doesn’t know what he really does. He was inappropriate with half our staff. The carpenters won’t work with him or they will quit. About 5 months ago he and his youngest son had a big fight & he moved out. His kids basically forbid him from being with me. We have been working on things and they have been better.
But then tonight, his youngest son is moving back in because he had a fight with his older brother whose house he moved into. My BPDbf said that his son is never going to forgive me for calling the cops on him. I asked if he was going to apologize for putting his hands on me and he said “why can’t you just let it go?”
I have let it go. His son hasn’t. I asked my BPDbf if his son knew we were still together and he said he didn’t know.
Obviously it is now over. An 18 year old boy is calling the shots. We can’t have any sort of relationship, I think he has been talking to me on the phone outside so he doesn’t know. His daughter who hates me also, does know we are together, but there is dysfunctional dynamics between all of them & I’m guessing they don’t talk.

[Radcliff]

Thanks for the detail on the work, that helps us understand.  You did a lot of work!

It must be beyond frustrating to have a child standing in the way of your adult relationship.  Do you have thoughts on what you want to do next?

WW

[Calmcollected]

Its not one child. Its his 20 year old daughter & his 34 year old son. His niece said once when I was over how awful his daughter was to anyone he was with, and his 34 year old son said that he has purposefully broken up his dads relationships by causing fights between his dad and whoever he is with.
I’m about to get my divorce settlement. We had olanned on being together. I’m going to move forward without him. If he catches up, so be it, but there is nothing I can do. I don’t look at it as the kids standing in the way, but him not having healthy boundaries.

[Radcliff]

I’m about to get my divorce settlement. We had olanned on being together. I’m going to move forward without him. If he catches up, so be it, but there is nothing I can do. I don’t look at it as the kids standing in the way, but him not having healthy boundaries.

Got it.  I'm so sorry things haven't worked out as you'd hoped.  Do you still plan to work with him?  Or will you stop seeing him during the days?

WW

[Calmcollected]

I don’t know. There is guilt that I’m stepping back further, that here he is with a kid threatening self harm and suicide. In the past he has used it to manipulate his dad. His son does need help. His oldest son has been lying anout the amount of time hes worked and is trying to add hours his pay cheque. Its a mess and my co dependency issues come out. I’m a lot better than last year not swooping in to save the day. I saw him for an hour this morning. He worked a 12 hour day and so did I running my own business. I’m going to work hard tomorrow and try not to call him. I’m going to slowly “wean” myself from talking to him to make it easier in the long run. it takes time. Yesterday I forced myself not to answer his texts immediately, even when he got upset with me for not immediately answering him. In the past I always answer right away, even though mine often don’t get acknowledged. I’m more at peace with if it works it works, if it doesn’t, it doesn’t. I don’t get anxiety anmore that it will be over. I feel like what will be, will be.

[Radcliff]

It sounds like you're slowly trying to claim some space, interact with him less, and see how that feels?

Those are long days!  If you are helping him less, will you have more time for your own business, or were you simply burning the candle at both ends before?

WW

[Calmcollected]

I was burning the candle. When I met him he was living in subsidized housing because he was an ironworker with full custody of his kids and couldnt leave town for work. They were in trouble. He now has a business that is finally taking off, he has some equity and a place to live that he owns. I did all this so that we could have a good life together. The sad thing is I know that he will not be able to maintain things and he will probably lose everything. I don’t think he or his son who is employed by him have any thankfulness in them or true understanding that if I’m gone, the business is gone and so is their income. I do all the marketing and use my business contacts to bring in new business. I often feel taken for granted. I would often drop things for my business to push his forward. That has now ended.
Now that I know we won’t have a life together, I have to move on wth my life and build my own.
He would often get mad because people would tell him how lucky he was to have me by clients. He would take it as an insult as a man that they thought he worked for me. I would always make sure to step back and away and promote him as the owner & boss. I think the BPD plays havoc with his mind and things get twisted, his self esteem is low so any indication that I’m running things sends him into anger and resentment.