She drew blood, then insisted she couldn't have

[Spaceweasel]

     So last Tuesday, Carol (fakename) and I were spending the day together. We went to the movies and  then back to my place. She was ready to start kissing as soon as we got in the door, aggressive and excited.  Every time we broke the kiss for a moment, she was biting my upper lip as she pulled away.  I decided to reciprocate (sometimes she sometimes likes and sometimes doesn't but has always been okay with before, just saying "please don't put your teeth there today".  This time, though, she dug her fingernails into my back and bit down on my upper lip hard enough to open a hole, then said ":)on't bite me on the mouth." It was perfectly calm, definitive without feeling like a shut-down. We kissed a little more, and I realized that she'd broken the skin so when she bit me there again, more gently, I said "Be careful, that spot's still tender." 

"What are you talking about?"

"That's where you bit me, I think you might have broken the skin."

(feel free to not lecture me on how I should have immediately suspended all fun and games to go get ointment or mouthwash or something to sanitize it; I'm aware of that but wasn't thinking through at the time.)

"I didn't bite you.  I couldn't have bitten you. When could I have bitten you?"

"When I tried to nibble your lip you bit down as hard as you could."

"No I didn't."

I turned my lip inside out to show her that yes, she had definitely bitten me and made a tiny hole, and she immediately said "I don't remember doing that. How could I have done that?" followed by announcing she could taste the blood and asking for a vodka and her favorite soft drink.  I tried to say it wasn't a big deal (I know I shouldn't minimize, but that's my reflex) and she spent a half hour just PISSED at herself, me and the universe that she had hurt me without even noticing or remembering.  I should probably take it as a positive that she didn't blame Laura (fake name, the woman I had a bit of a crush on for a bit, who Carol  was convinced wouldn't respect the boundaries of our non-traditional relationship and would steal me away from Carol) but at the time it just felt like her being awful and trying to simultaneously accept and reject responsibility.

Ever since, she's been in a super depressive cycle; she wanted to hang out Thursday and a stayover Saturday night, but she was in full "low mode", not wanting physical contact, interpreting any weird facial expression, choice of word or unexpected shift to my tone of voice as a critique of her, bouncing between telling me how wonderful I am to put up with her BS and responding to any of my insistences that I understood when I started dating someone with BPD and bipolar 2 there'd be days like those by saying she wondered how long I'd keep believing that.  This has been the case face-to-face and in text.  It's frustrating as hell because I know everything I say will make things worse, but accepting that and refusing to try and fail to reassure her isn't really an option. 

I don't know how long I can do this. I don't want to ditch her, but I don't know if I can make this my life, looking for a secondary partner (who realistically doesn't exist because the list of women looking to be a non-mono guy's #2 is a lot shorter than the list of guys willing to reverse the equation) while I defuse her time bombs and assure her that she's a better partner than she thinks (she is, but her stated bar is so low that most crawfish would be better than she expects.)

Next week she's going to a con with her secondary (call him Nils for a fake name) and when that happens I get weird. When she vacations with him, I don't really get jealous that she's sleeping with someone else, I get jealous that I'm not.  That's the only time of year I could see myself in a strip club, the only time I could see using a hookup site (last year I actually tried but it didn't go anywhere), the only time I get really and truly frustrated at being in a relationship where "being able to see other people" is asymmetrical because she's been seeing Nils longer than me, and he's married and I'm her primary partner but he fills her weird gaps but finding someone to fill mine is tougher.  I wouldn't deny her their relationship, as I agreed to a non-traditional, but I'm still trying to figure out if I can be her #1 if only she gets a realistic second opportunity when we have so many incidents like paragraph 1.

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[pearlsw]

Hi Spaceweasel,

As hard as relationships are and you wanna take an extra share of the human workload? More power to ya!

So you have the hardest time when she is with her other partner as you don't have a #2 set up on your side of the equation?

I tell ya, I'd backtrack to this lip biting thing. In any intimate situation we could feel a bit off for committing a "foul", but here it sounds like she took it pretty hard, as did you for that matter?

So your plan is to focus more on finding your #2?

take care, pearl.

[Lady Itone]

Hi Spaceweasle

I'm also, as you call it, "non-traditional." Poly survival 101: If the only way polyamory is going to work for you is if everything's "even," it probably isn't going to work for you. You already know you can't ask your partner to ditch her other partner, so you just have to do the emotional work to stay happy and engaged while she's off with her other guy. It's definitely not easy, and it's even more challenging when your partner is, well, "challenging." Are your needs, emotional and physical, being met in this relationship? Are you giving more than you're getting?

You're right most women aren't interested in being a secondary, unless they already have a primary of their own. Could try non-hierarchical poly, where no one is "primary" or "secondary," you treat each partner men according to their and your individual needs and wants. I like OkCupid for finding poly people. I have a thriving swinger's community where I live. Ultimately, that wasn't right for me (too heteronormative and couplecentric) but could work for what you're looking for.

While I was with my exBPDgf, we were technically open, but she took up soo much of my physical and emotional energy, I had nothing left for anybody else. I often wished she'd find another outlet for her endless needs, but she didn't.   

As for the lip biting incident and the meltdown that followed... .Yep. As you said, you knew when you started dating someone with BPD and Bipolar 2, there'd be days like that. I'm sorry I don't have much solid advice for you there, but I just wanted to let you know there's at least one other poly person on here, you're not alone.

[Spaceweasel]

Hi Spaceweasel,

As hard as relationships are and you wanna take an extra share of the human workload? More power to ya!

So you have the hardest time when she is with her other partner as you don't have a #2 set up on your side of the equation?

I tell ya, I'd backtrack to this lip biting thing. In any intimate situation we could feel a bit off for committing a "foul", but here it sounds like she took it pretty hard, as did you for that matter?

So your plan is to focus more on finding your #2?

take care, pearl.

Thanks for responding.  I apologize for the week's gap, but extra shifts come along so rarely at my job that I have worked 12h every day since that post until today.

I think the real problem is that I don't KNOW what I want.  I want to stay with her, but I also know I want things she is incapable of giving me.  Because of our poly situation, it feels like I should be able to go out and find someone in a similar situation so we can fill in each other's gaps, but so far life doesn't work that way.  Nobody on OKC seems interested in me as a #2, and the only person I've met just through regular social contact who's ever taken an interst in me (Laura, from my first post here) makes Carol crazy AND seems to have some issues with not looking out for my consent before trying to kiss me.  I'm not really actively looking for a #2 because Carol leaves me with too little energy and I worry that either I won't keep up with e-mails from others or I'll just be a jerk, but that doesn't change the fact that I'd like to find one or that when she leaves town with her #2 I get jealous in a way that I don't when they're in town.

I feel like the universe wants me to figure out what will make me happy and shout it from a mountaintop, but I know that's dumb and a recipe for disaster.  I want SOMETHING she will readily admit she can't give me, but trying to find it in our current context seems to be a recipe for misery.

[Spaceweasel]

First, thanks for responding. I apologize for the delayed response but my job only offers extra shifts once a year, right around now, so I've been maxing out my paycheck for the last week and a half.

Hi Spaceweasle

I'm also, as you call it, "non-traditional." Poly survival 101: If the only way polyamory is going to work for you is if everything's "even," it probably isn't going to work for you. You already know you can't ask your partner to ditch her other partner, so you just have to do the emotional work to stay happy and engaged while she's off with her other guy. It's definitely not easy, and it's even more challenging when your partner is, well, "challenging." Are your needs, emotional and physical, being met in this relationship? Are you giving more than you're getting?

Intermittently.  Both physically and emotionally she tends to run very hot and cold; she sometimes goes as much as 6 weeks without wanting to be touched, then goes into overdrive.  Emotionally, she meets my needs more often than not but when she starts dissociating or bottoming out on her bipolar cycle there are sometimes periods of days or a week where she wants me to engage with her emotional situation but is either unwilling or incapable when I want her to engage with mine.  The emotional gaps are more frequent but shorter-lived than the physical ones.  And my brain recognizes that parity is a dumb thing to chase after, but this time of the year it always makes me the most nuts.

You're right most women aren't interested in being a secondary, unless they already have a primary of their own. Could try non-hierarchical poly, where no one is "primary" or "secondary," you treat each partner men according to their and your individual needs and wants. I like OkCupid for finding poly people. I have a thriving swinger's community where I live. Ultimately, that wasn't right for me (too heteronormative and couplecentric) but could work for what you're looking for.

Thanks for this.  I've tried OKC but haven't had a lot of luck; one date, lots and lots of unanswered likes/msgs.  Part of the issue is that since she has her #2, and sees sex with anyone else as a failure of her hard-won self-discipline, she's absolutely uninterested in anything like what you describe.  She doesn't want to see me flirt with anyone else, and she doesn't want to see me (or Nils) with anyone else. She wants us both to have options, but she says that putting it out in the open in her presence would trigger her fear of abandonment.  Sometimes it feels like she wants me to find another partner in the abstract, but any other person I might be able to make a partnership with would freak her out.

While I was with my exBPDgf, we were technically open, but she took up soo much of my physical and emotional energy, I had nothing left for anybody else. I often wished she'd find another outlet for her endless needs, but she didn't.   

Did you and your exBPDGF live together? If so, my situation's at least a little different.  Carol's said she does not want to ever share a house with anyone again, and so we usually spend 2-3 nights per week together.  That leaves me theoretical room for other people even if it's not practical.

As for the lip biting incident and the meltdown that followed... .Yep. As you said, you knew when you started dating someone with BPD and Bipolar 2, there'd be days like that. I'm sorry I don't have much solid advice for you there, but I just wanted to let you know there's at least one other poly person on here, you're not alone.

It's perfectly okay!  I'm posting here less because I want someone to answer my questions than because I want to believe that someone who might understand has heard me.  If you, or Pearl, or anyone else looks at the msg but doesn't have an answer that's totally cool.  Thanks for speaking up.

[Lady Itone]

She doesn't want to see me flirt with anyone else, and she doesn't want to see me (or Nils) with anyone else. She wants us both to have options, but she says that putting it out in the open in her presence would trigger her fear of abandonment.  Sometimes it feels like she wants me to find another partner in the abstract, but any other person I might be able to make a partnership with would freak her out.Did you and your exBPDGF live together?

That's exactly why most women will shy away from being someone's "secondary." What if, say, you're having a birthday party for yourself. Can you only invite your primary, not your secondary too? What if you're on the phone with your secondary, and your primary is there, if you flirt or say I love you will your primary will flip out? 

To answer your question, my exgfBPD lived with me for part of our relationship, but at that time, I wasn't interested in anyone else. However, years before I met her, I was married to a man and we tried opening the marriage to let me have a secondary (hubby wasn't interested in practicing nonmonogamy.) My exhusband made sure, though, that for all intents and purposes, any dating I did would have to be on the sly, don't ask don't tell. It meant I couldn't really incorporate another love into my life, I was relegated to super-casual sexual relationships that were not fulfilling and not what I ultimately wanted to get out of polyamory. 

I understand completely what you say about your gf being great when she's at the top of her cycle, and totally emotionally unavailable at the bottom. It sucked and made me feel so sad, alone, and unsafe. I feel your pain.