Talked to him yesterday

[Depression = 72% of members]

So yesterday I met up with my ex to talk about what had happened in May (found out he cheated on me which he denies, found out we had scabies and that I got it from him, he started pulling a lot, saying that he wasn't doing well and he missed me and needed me and that I should be there for him and got really angry when it was clear that I wasnt coming back).

I was so extremely nervous, I really didn't know what to expect. He behaved quite cold and distant when we set up the meeting via WhatsApp, so I was scared that he was maybe going to be very mean and blame it all on me. Luckily that wasnt true. In hindsight I should have maybe recorded the conversation because I already forgot some things that he said, which sucks. But what he said really helped me so that's good. I didn't know that he had it in him. It's kind of weird though, because he behaved so normally. It's so surreal that that's the same person who has said and done all those mean things.

We first sat on a terrace and drank tea and talked a bit about how he was doing and how his sister was doing (his sister is depressed) and how his mother was coping. He said he was doing better but that his sister wasn't doing well and that was really hard on his mother and that he also had a hard time because his sister's depression was mostly caused by their childhood so that's brining up a lot of bad memories that he had pushed away.

When he asked how I was doing I said I wasn't doing well and that I still struggled a lot with everything that had happened and he proposed to go for a walk to talk about it after we finished our teas.

So we walked a bit and then sat along the canal to talk.

I told him that I really struggled with feeling not good enough and that his rejection time and time again had been really hard on me and had crashed my self-esteem. He said that when a relationship ends it's never about not being good enough. That I shouldn't think like that. That it wasn't like that. That sometimes it just happens.

I also said that I found it very difficult to cope with the fact that when we tried again it only lasted weeks while in his other relationships it lasted months again and that I saw that as my failure. He said that something had just snapped within him that first time we broke up (I don't really understand what he meant by that and what had snapped, but maybe he didn't really know either) and that's why it didn't work anymore. This is something that brought up more questions inside of me but unfortunately I'll never get the answers.

I also asked him that I didn't understand that, if he knew that something had snapped inside of him, he still wanted to try again every time, knowing that it probably wouldn't work out. Unfortunately I don't remember exactly his answer to this, which really sucked. He said something about that he was just really bad in relationships and ending them and that he didn't understand it himself either and that it he just had been struggling.

He said he was sorry about contacting me again last month, that that wasn't nice of him. That he was just feeling really sorry for himself but that it wasn't that he really wanted to try again. I asked him what would have happened if I had given in to him and he said "probably just more sh*t". And I asked him that I didn't understand that he had said that in the conversations we had then that he regretted the past 4 months and wished he had done it differently and he said "That's in the past now" so that was a bit vague. Because I just don't understand that only a month ago he was talking about how much he missed me and that it was his fault and that he hated himself because of what had happened and that now he seemed totally over me.

I also brought up the soulmate ex and that I was having a difficult time with that and I kept comparing myself to her. He said I couldn't compare myself because I knew nothing about his past relationships (I know a lot more than he thinks I know, although it's true that I don't know a lot about their relationship). He said he could assure me that our relationship and been a lot more fun than his relationship with her. That in their relationship there had been a period of 7 months where they were really grim to eachother even though they were officially together, that they had broken up 6 times. That he could now see that it was better this way and that he was happy they broke up and that if she really was his soulmate than they would still be together. I didn't ask him if he thought she was more special to him than me, because I was scared to hear the answer. It's clear that he seems totally over me and has given our relationship a spot in his head and that that isn't the case with her, that he still struggles with losing her. But it was good to hear that he had liked our relationship that much.

I also said that I struggled with thinking about all the things I could have done differently and blamed myself for that and he asked if it would really matter if I knew those things? I said I already knew them. He said that it isn't as simple as doing some things differently and that we then would still be together. He said that if it had been meant to be then we would still be together and that that's not the case and we need to accept that.

He also gave very interesting advice for an ex haha. He said that he hoped that I would be open to new guys. That I should just go and drink a cup of coffee with someone if I liked them. That I just needed to be f*cked (say whaaaat haha) and that was the best way to get over someone. That for him there were at least 10 other guys who liked me and found me attractive. That the world didn't end with him. That he of course doesn't like it to think of me with someone else, but that he wants me to get out of this.

Oh and I also brought up the cheating again. He was very vague. Saying that he didn't remember it happening and that he only saw one of the guys he was with (who is the same length and has the same hair colour) kiss a girl. I said it had really hurt me because I thought we were still fine back then and he said "I understand" but that kind of hurt me because that maybe means that it wasn't fine back then? Because he didn't deny it.

I probably forgot some things now, but these were the most important things I guess. We also just talked about our lives and he complained a lot about his friends and other people in his life and how he was done with them and just saying about random people who passed by that they looked like a sad bunch and complaining about the country we live in and the wanted out etc etc. And I realised that maybe it's better we're broken up since we're so different in that aspect. He is quite a negative person who has a dark outlook on life, whereas I'm generally more positive and like to see the good in people. He always called me naive because of that, but I'd rather be naive than like him. I had a similar realisation when I talked to him at the festival 2 weeks ago. He made some mean remarks about my best friend's girlfriend and I thought "why would I want to be with a person who can be so mean to people?".  I remember from our relationship that I sometimes went along with it and laughed with him when he made nasty comments about people/my friends and I don't want to be that person.

Anyway, overall it was a good conversation I think. I am quite proud of myself that I did this and that I didn't scare away from confrontation. Of course it brings up questions, like what it was that snapped in him and why he kept trying again if he didn't really want me anymore and knew that. Because it's not like he hates me and wants to hurt me. It was very hard to realise that something already snapped in him after the first time we broke up though, because I just don't understand why he kept contacting me wanting to try again when he knew that it wouldn't work out. That hurts.

Afterwards he also messaged me saying that it was nice to have seen me and talked to me but that he found it hard to open up because he didn't want to hurt or burden me anymore. And that if he could do something for me I should just ask.

This also raised questions, because if he would have opened up he would have hurt me? Does that mean he blames me anyway? I don't really understand. I said that if he wanted to talk than I was glod to help. He said that he wasn't feeling happy but that he just ignored it and that he'd be fine and that I wasn't the best person to talk to it about it even though he wanted to. And then he said that he was feeling fine. So it was kind of weird that he contradicted himself in that.

[blooming]

So yesterday I met up with my ex to talk about what had happened in May (found out he cheated on me which he denies, found out we had scabies and that I got it from him, he started pulling a lot, saying that he wasn't doing well and he missed me and needed me and that I should be there for him and got really angry when it was clear that I wasnt coming back).

I was so extremely nervous, I really didn't know what to expect. He behaved quite cold and distant when we set up the meeting via WhatsApp, so I was scared that he was maybe going to be very mean and blame it all on me. Luckily that wasnt true. In hindsight I should have maybe recorded the conversation because I already forgot some things that he said, which sucks. But what he said really helped me so that's good. I didn't know that he had it in him. It's kind of weird though, because he behaved so normally. It's so surreal that that's the same person who has said and done all those mean things.

We first sat on a terrace and drank tea and talked a bit about how he was doing and how his sister was doing (his sister is depressed) and how his mother was coping. He said he was doing better but that his sister wasn't doing well and that was really hard on his mother and that he also had a hard time because his sister's depression was mostly caused by their childhood so that's brining up a lot of bad memories that he had pushed away.

When he asked how I was doing I said I wasn't doing well and that I still struggled a lot with everything that had happened and he proposed to go for a walk to talk about it after we finished our teas.

So we walked a bit and then sat along the canal to talk.

I told him that I really struggled with feeling not good enough and that his rejection time and time again had been really hard on me and had crashed my self-esteem. He said that when a relationship ends it's never about not being good enough. That I shouldn't think like that. That it wasn't like that. That sometimes it just happens.

I also said that I found it very difficult to cope with the fact that when we tried again it only lasted weeks while in his other relationships it lasted months again and that I saw that as my failure. He said that something had just snapped within him that first time we broke up (I don't really understand what he meant by that and what had snapped, but maybe he didn't really know either) and that's why it didn't work anymore. This is something that brought up more questions inside of me but unfortunately I'll never get the answers.

I also asked him that I didn't understand that, if he knew that something had snapped inside of him, he still wanted to try again every time, knowing that it probably wouldn't work out. Unfortunately I don't remember exactly his answer to this, which really sucked. He said something about that he was just really bad in relationships and ending them and that he didn't understand it himself either and that it he just had been struggling.

He said he was sorry about contacting me again last month, that that wasn't nice of him. That he was just feeling really sorry for himself but that it wasn't that he really wanted to try again. I asked him what would have happened if I had given in to him and he said "probably just more sh*t". And I asked him that I didn't understand that he had said that in the conversations we had then that he regretted the past 4 months and wished he had done it differently and he said "That's in the past now" so that was a bit vague. Because I just don't understand that only a month ago he was talking about how much he missed me and that it was his fault and that he hated himself because of what had happened and that now he seemed totally over me.

I also brought up the soulmate ex and that I was having a difficult time with that and I kept comparing myself to her. He said I couldn't compare myself because I knew nothing about his past relationships (I know a lot more than he thinks I know, although it's true that I don't know a lot about their relationship). He said he could assure me that our relationship and been a lot more fun than his relationship with her. That in their relationship there had been a period of 7 months where they were really grim to eachother even though they were officially together, that they had broken up 6 times. That he could now see that it was better this way and that he was happy they broke up and that if she really was his soulmate than they would still be together. I didn't ask him if he thought she was more special to him than me, because I was scared to hear the answer. It's clear that he seems totally over me and has given our relationship a spot in his head and that that isn't the case with her, that he still struggles with losing her. But it was good to hear that he had liked our relationship that much.

I also said that I struggled with thinking about all the things I could have done differently and blamed myself for that and he asked if it would really matter if I knew those things? I said I already knew them. He said that it isn't as simple as doing some things differently and that we then would still be together. He said that if it had been meant to be then we would still be together and that that's not the case and we need to accept that.

He also gave very interesting advice for an ex haha. He said that he hoped that I would be open to new guys. That I should just go and drink a cup of coffee with someone if I liked them. That I just needed to be f*cked (say whaaaat haha) and that was the best way to get over someone. That for him there were at least 10 other guys who liked me and found me attractive. That the world didn't end with him. That he of course doesn't like it to think of me with someone else, but that he wants me to get out of this.

Oh and I also brought up the cheating again. He was very vague. Saying that he didn't remember it happening and that he only saw one of the guys he was with (who is the same length and has the same hair colour) kiss a girl. I said it had really hurt me because I thought we were still fine back then and he said "I understand" but that kind of hurt me because that maybe means that it wasn't fine back then? Because he didn't deny it.

I probably forgot some things now, but these were the most important things I guess. We also just talked about our lives and he complained a lot about his friends and other people in his life and how he was done with them and just saying about random people who passed by that they looked like a sad bunch and complaining about the country we live in and the wanted out etc etc. And I realised that maybe it's better we're broken up since we're so different in that aspect. He is quite a negative person who has a dark outlook on life, whereas I'm generally more positive and like to see the good in people. He always called me naive because of that, but I'd rather be naive than like him. I had a similar realisation when I talked to him at the festival 2 weeks ago. He made some mean remarks about my best friend's girlfriend and I thought "why would I want to be with a person who can be so mean to people?".  I remember from our relationship that I sometimes went along with it and laughed with him when he made nasty comments about people/my friends and I don't want to be that person.

Anyway, overall it was a good conversation I think. I am quite proud of myself that I did this and that I didn't scare away from confrontation. Of course it brings up questions, like what it was that snapped in him and why he kept trying again if he didn't really want me anymore and knew that. Because it's not like he hates me and wants to hurt me. It was very hard to realise that something already snapped in him after the first time we broke up though, because I just don't understand why he kept contacting me wanting to try again when he knew that it wouldn't work out. That hurts.

Afterwards he also messaged me saying that it was nice to have seen me and talked to me but that he found it hard to open up because he didn't want to hurt or burden me anymore. And that if he could do something for me I should just ask.

This also raised questions, because if he would have opened up he would have hurt me? Does that mean he blames me anyway? I don't really understand. I said that if he wanted to talk than I was glod to help. He said that he wasn't feeling happy but that he just ignored it and that he'd be fine and that I wasn't the best person to talk to it about it even though he wanted to. And then he said that he was feeling fine. So it was kind of weird that he contradicted himself in that.

[EdR]

Like you said, he could probably not answer these questions himself though.

I am actually a little jealous 
This was an amazing conversation imho and is a great way to obtain some closure. I would really suggest to leave it at that.

[Roler]

Sounds like you had quite a conversation there, blooming! And good to read you had an overall "good" feeling about it.
IN the past I found myself wanting to have a "final ask all tell all" conversation so many times, only to find out that every time we would talk it would raise more questions. Especially questions I had, that I knew I would probably never get an answer to, or a lie as answer, or a half-truth... .its also when I found out that her truth and my truth would not necessarily always be lined-up with each other and confronting her with that did not make her " see" things different either... .despite she would tell me she now could see things the way I did. I just had to find peace with the idea that it will never be and All-things-answered situation with the PD traids involved. I have had to learn this along the way and most in hindsight, as I was trying to process what had been happening.

I hope you can focus on the good things it brought you and take it from there, day by day.

[Cromwell]

Even though there is some questions you didnt get answers to, it sounds like the fact itself that you could voice your feelings and get a response will help towards closure.

What id like to point out is this claim of not telling you things in order not to hurt you.

It sets an unhealthy precept to his relationships whereby, he can do things, not own up to them, whilst having established that anything he hides was a result of not wanting to hurt another person (converting it into a "good" action) but ultimately a selfish one.

A real man apologises for doing something they have done that has been hurtful, takes the consequences but in the midst of it, offers the opportunity to be forgiven and for the other partner to find some peace and afford them the right to make a decision based on having an accurate perception of reality. His not being open is what has led you to this state of dismay, halted you in your tracks of moving on in whatever form you could have chosen.

Honest guys are the good guys Blooming

we moved from him "not cheating", to now not "remembering".

If it turns out from now that it appears he is not interesting in you Blooming, my thoughts it will be more linked to him having to face the shame of what he has done - rightfully so - than it is any deficiency you might consider on your not being worthy enough. I hope that your meeting has helped you towards the closure you have been seeking.

[Harley Quinn]

Hold your head up Blooming.  You did yourself proud by having the courage to open yourself up to whatever he might throw at you, whilst knowing what he is capable of.  Can you put this to rest now?

Love and light x

[blooming]

I'm sorry for not replying earlier. I have been really busy with end of term exams, but have finished my last one now, finally.

Like you said, he could probably not answer these questions himself though.

I am actually a little jealous 
This was an amazing conversation imho and is a great way to obtain some closure. I would really suggest to leave it at that.

It was a good conversation indeed. Hard though, to find out the next day a new story of his infidelity. It's so scary how he has two different sides to him it seems. This loving and caring side I saw in the conversation we had and then the harsh, unempathetic side who cheated on me time and time again knowing how much it would hurt me. But yes, I am leaving it at this and not messaging him further.

Sounds like you had quite a conversation there, blooming! And good to read you had an overall "good" feeling about it.
IN the past I found myself wanting to have a "final ask all tell all" conversation so many times, only to find out that every time we would talk it would raise more questions. Especially questions I had, that I knew I would probably never get an answer to, or a lie as answer, or a half-truth... .its also when I found out that her truth and my truth would not necessarily always be lined-up with each other and confronting her with that did not make her " see" things different either... .despite she would tell me she now could see things the way I did. I just had to find peace with the idea that it will never be and All-things-answered situation with the PD traids involved. I have had to learn this along the way and most in hindsight, as I was trying to process what had been happening.

I hope you can focus on the good things it brought you and take it from there, day by day.

You are right Roler, the fact that this was his truth at the moment we had that conversation, doesn't mean it's his truth at this current moment I'm writing this. I have experienced time and time again how his truth changes and how he can lie so very easily. I indeed have to find peace with the fact that I'll never have all the answers. That's very hard though. How did you find peace with that? How did you try to process what happened? And for me it's hard to see how anything good came from this actually. What good did your relationship with our ex bring you?

Even though there is some questions you didnt get answers to, it sounds like the fact itself that you could voice your feelings and get a response will help towards closure.

What id like to point out is this claim of not telling you things in order not to hurt you.

It sets an unhealthy precept to his relationships whereby, he can do things, not own up to them, whilst having established that anything he hides was a result of not wanting to hurt another person (converting it into a "good" action) but ultimately a selfish one.

A real man apologises for doing something they have done that has been hurtful, takes the consequences but in the midst of it, offers the opportunity to be forgiven and for the other partner to find some peace and afford them the right to make a decision based on having an accurate perception of reality. His not being open is what has led you to this state of dismay, halted you in your tracks of moving on in whatever form you could have chosen.

Honest guys are the good guys Blooming

we moved from him "not cheating", to now not "remembering".

If it turns out from now that it appears he is not interesting in you Blooming, my thoughts it will be more linked to him having to face the shame of what he has done - rightfully so - than it is any deficiency you might consider on your not being worthy enough. I hope that your meeting has helped you towards the closure you have been seeking.

Yes, he has shown this behaviour many times. He has told me once that he cheated on one of his girlfriends at a festival, where he kissed a member of a band he likes. He never told his then girlfriend, because he didn't want to hurt her and because he thought it would only bring difficulties. It's a very selfish decision to make indeed.

And I hope I can find that closure too. I want it so bad.

Hold your head up Blooming.  You did yourself proud by having the courage to open yourself up to whatever he might throw at you, whilst knowing what he is capable of.  Can you put this to rest now?

Love and light x

I hope I can put it to rest. I want to. But it's easier said than done. I just don't know how to let go of him.

[Harley Quinn]

I just don't know how to let go of him.

One day at a time blooming.  And every day that goes by where you don't reach out or cave in to an urge to see him is a success.  Add them up.  Feel good when you reach milestones.  3 days, 3 weeks, 3 months, 3 years.  Be proud of yourself for having the strength.  This stuff is hard!  It takes strength and a commitment to yourself to feel better, and to grow.  All the while, do all the things that are good for you, physically, mentally, emotionally.  Follow your dreams, set yourself goals and do what feels good.  It takes time and effort, and you have everything you need inside of yourself.  We've got your back.   

Did you manage to get the referral for therapy?  Good luck for your exam results!

Love and light x

[blooming]

One day at a time blooming.  And every day that goes by where you don't reach out or cave in to an urge to see him is a success.  Add them up.  Feel good when you reach milestones.  3 days, 3 weeks, 3 months, 3 years.  Be proud of yourself for having the strength.  This stuff is hard!  It takes strength and a commitment to yourself to feel better, and to grow.  All the while, do all the things that are good for you, physically, mentally, emotionally.  Follow your dreams, set yourself goals and do what feels good.  It takes time and effort, and you have everything you need inside of yourself.  We've got your back.   

Did you manage to get the referral for therapy?  Good luck for your exam results!

Love and light x

I'm trying, I don't understand how it's so hard. Sometimes I think I'm doing better but then the next day or just an hour later I start feeling so extremely empty and sad again and can't stop thinking about all the things we could have had and the things he'll have with another. He's 24, going on 25, he'll probably start settling soon. Maybe the next one he'll meet will be the one. Thoughts of them together torture me.

Also, unconsciously, I still keep wishing for him to reach out. I know I shouldn't, I know it wouldn't bring me anything, but it's just so hard to have no idea what's going on in it's life. That's of course the reason that I keep checking his strava/last.fm accounts, to have some idea of what he's doing. I haven't looked at his last.fm in 4 days now and trying to keep it up.

The fact that the holidays have started and I don't have a lot to do to keep me occupied doesn't help. My thoughts are all over the place.

No, unfortunately I haven't gotten the referral. Don't know what to do now.

[Harley Quinn]

I haven't looked at his last.fm in 4 days now and trying to keep it up.

That's a good start!  Stick at it.  It gets easier.  Maybe you can get a friend to intervene if you find your resolve weakening? 

The fact that the holidays have started and I don't have a lot to do to keep me occupied doesn't help. My thoughts are all over the place.

It's good that you recognise this.  So what have you always fancied doing and never gotten around to?  How about exploring some new interests?  I went to the local library and checked out all the info on things going on in the area.  You could sign up to extra classes, a group or any number of different activities.  Get out, meet new people and do fun things.  Things you'd have difficulty doing if you were trying to sustain a r/s with him.  Live your best life, blooming.  You will begin in time to see the advantages over the disadvantages and the sad memories. 

As for torturing yourself, I'd advise you to pursue the referral and ask for support from friends and family to keep you on track should a moment arrive that you decide to act on those thoughts.

I practice mindfulness and one of the things that was taught on my course is that thoughts are not facts.  I know that sounds simple and obvious, but we can assign importance to them that they don't have.  They are just thoughts and are no more important than deciding what to eat for breakfast.  Don't latch onto them, just let them come up and go by.  Acknowledge that you're thinking the same thing again and let it pass.  You have that choice and deserve some peace from this.  Be kind to yourself.

Love and light x   

[Cromwell]

Hi Blooming

this whole dishonest repertoire he has about 'I can basically do whatever I want as long as i dont let the other find out, because I dont want them to be hurt' is going to follow him like the plague. You dont need a crystal ball to see that entrenched way of thinking wont ever find him fulfillment. Regardless, his 'protection' is flawed, you did find out, you were hurt, it was entirely his fault and he has caused more hurt by sticking steadfast to the cowardly approach of not admitting it, prolonging the hurt at your expense, for his selfishness of not facing any shame or confrontation.

After all he has done he should be on his hands and knees with his tail between his legs apologising at your feet. Not still trying to control, mocking you for trying to date elsewhere. Blooming unlike him, you have all the ingredients to take and give to someone who will cherish and respect you better. Forget about looks, because you will also find another attractive guy, he might be the first but hes not the only one in the world, so try to shift him a bit further out of central focus and into the periphery is my advice. No one has a crystal ball but based on hanging on to thoughts about him, your living in the past and holding yourself back unneccessarily from new opportunities that are abundant available to you.

BPD etc doesnt even come into the dynamic, if you stick to your principles and dont accept being hurt when you are looking for love, its just a case of discard into the past and embrace new opportunities with the experience gained. I know a first relationship is especially difficult but the good news is that once you are over this it gets easier. Not to say you might never be disappointed again, but you get better at "screening" out in the first place with experience gained.

Dating is all about getting experience, youve got that now from him, it will help for the future if you make best use of the situation. No one can stop our partners cheating on us, thats not what should hit self esteem, its what we do about it that makes us feel comfortable. Some dont see it as a big deal, others do, you did and didnt allow yourself to trust him again - great! Its hurtful, its disappointing, often bitterly so, such is life, such is love. or as the french say as we are talking about love Cest la vie Cest La Amore youll get over it Blooming, dont entertain these thoughts anymore they are just poision and making the hurt prolonged more than it needs to be.