Ex has cut me off Facebook - Part 2

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

I hadn’t seen my married exuBPD lover for 17 months and then she cut me off FB due to what she perceived as my ST towards her. This is ironic since her whole MO towards me was ST for years. She came down to my home town with her husband and family and decided that she needed ‘to be honest’ about what she was doing. Since she’d never been honest with me in the past (lying by omission was a daily pastime), I took it to mean that she wanted me to know I she was in town so I could yearn for her. Keeping me exactly where she wants me: chasing her. In the spirit of what I thought was a new found friendship, as opposed to a love affair, I wished her a good day.

I became busy over the next week and didn’t give much thought to her games or needs. This turned out to enrage her and she cut me off FB in protest at what she interpreted as ST. I told her I had simply been busy and reminded her that I had wished her a good day. I asked her what else she expected me to do or say. Since it had been 17 months since we met up I decided this was the right time to walk away from her and I cut her off WhatsApp and blocked her number. There has been NC for a week and while I miss her, I think it was the correct thing to do. I’ve been wanting the games to stop and I figured if she is still playing them after nearly 18 months of no face to face meeting, then the situation is hopeless.

I find myself wondering what she is up to and who else she is seeing. I am sure she won’t be short of admirers but I am also sure she won’t meet anybody who was as obsessive and crazy over her as I was. I want her to miss me and see the error of her ways. History tells me that this is unlikely and even if we were to reconnect at some point in the future, which I have no intention of doing, she would tell me that it was all my fault and that I had stopped talking to her. She will tell me that cutting me off FB was simply a way of getting my attention or protesting at perceived ST. She will see nothing wrong in it at all.

I don’t want to be thinking about my ex. I am damn sure she is not spending all her time thinking about me. This is the only place I can share about this and deal with my pain.

[RomanticFool]

I hadn’t seen my married exuBPD lover for 17 months and then she cut me off FB due to what she perceived as my ST towards her. This is ironic since her whole MO towards me was ST for years. She came down to my home town with her husband and family and decided that she needed ‘to be honest’ about what she was doing. Since she’d never been honest with me in the past (lying by omission was a daily pastime), I took it to mean that she wanted me to know I she was in town so I could yearn for her. Keeping me exactly where she wants me: chasing her. In the spirit of what I thought was a new found friendship, as opposed to a love affair, I wished her a good day.

I became busy over the next week and didn’t give much thought to her games or needs. This turned out to enrage her and she cut me off FB in protest at what she interpreted as ST. I told her I had simply been busy and reminded her that I had wished her a good day. I asked her what else she expected me to do or say. Since it had been 17 months since we met up I decided this was the right time to walk away from her and I cut her off WhatsApp and blocked her number. There has been NC for a week and while I miss her, I think it was the correct thing to do. I’ve been wanting the games to stop and I figured if she is still playing them after nearly 18 months of no face to face meeting, then the situation is hopeless.

I find myself wondering what she is up to and who else she is seeing. I am sure she won’t be short of admirers but I am also sure she won’t meet anybody who was as obsessive and crazy over her as I was. I want her to miss me and see the error of her ways. History tells me that this is unlikely and even if we were to reconnect at some point in the future, which I have no intention of doing, she would tell me that it was all my fault and that I had stopped talking to her. She will tell me that cutting me off FB was simply a way of getting my attention or protesting at perceived ST. She will see nothing wrong in it at all.

I don’t want to be thinking about my ex. I am damn sure she is not spending all her time thinking about me. This is the only place I can share about this and deal with my pain.

[Forearmed]

I hadn’t seen my married exuBPD lover for 17 months .

There has been NC for a week and while I miss her, I think it was the correct thing to do. I’ve been wanting the games to stop and I figured if she is still playing them after nearly 18 months of no face to face meeting, then the situation is hopeless.

I find myself wondering what she is up to and who else she is seeing.

I want her to miss me and see the error of her ways. History tells me that this is unlikely and even if we were to reconnect at some point in the future, which I have no intention of doing, she would tell me that it was all my fault and that I had stopped talking to her.

Romantic - I've edited your comments to highlight various aspects.

In my experience, the very best you'll ever  get from a BPD is in their honeymoon period (where they will literally do anything for you). After that? No rules apply and the pathology relative to her condition (childish selfishness) increasingly blooms. That means all kinds of games (to us, i guess) can be played for her to see how much she can engage you / have your attention  while getting on with her life. i.e. A simple text sent by her to you (answered quickly by you) can be enough to satisfy her ego at the devalue stages... .she then just gets on with her life.        

I truly feel only real -self-esteem (i.e. you have a full life and can attract women) allows us to work through the mindset / landminds of the BPD personality and emerge more knowledgeable and stronger. At some stage you simply see them very cleary and whether they are with you or not you'll never go back... .or if you do, you''ll take then best on what's on offer in the moment ; ) and just get right back on with your life... .!

IMO, being in contact but not meeting you is just using your better qualities for 'supply'.  

[RomanticFool]

Forearmed,

Thank you for your input. I think much of what you say applies in my situation. However, there is a very important component which I must also consider. Why have I persevered in this situation firstly for a 2 years period (starting in 2002) and secondly 8 years later for a period of 6 years (starting in 2012)? It has been a complicated and painful situation but the one constant issue is that she has been married and shown no inclination to leave her r/s. The second time around I was newly married and once again, she showed no sign of leaving her marriage.

I feel like one of the issues that applies to me is the idea of whether I can attract women. This is a crucial aspect of how I got embroiled in this situation because the second time around I was in my late 40’s and considered myself a fading sexual force. I was flattered by this very beautiful woman reconnecting with me and suggesting that she was ready to change her life. A form of love-bombing.

The truth of the matter is there has seldom been anything in this situation for me but pain. I have hung around her for so long hoping for love and affection but in a 16 year period, albeit with an 8 year gap, there has been precious little of that, save a few stolen nights of passion here and there. I allowed myself to see her as my potential life partner when the truth staring me in the face was that she was unreliable, manipulative, a secretive liar (by omission) and a woman unwilling to leave her marriage. Why did I settle for so little.  Why did I allow myself to chase this femme fatale?

These are the hard questions I am asking myself and indeed have asked myself over years of push/pull. I should’ve walked away years ago, never to return and yet she has always had the keys to my heart. It feels like I’m turning my back on the one person I truly love. However, I am married and while my wife is not the most giving and emotionally available of people, she is at least real and not a fantasy my lustful mind has conjured up to fulfill what was once a voracious appetite. My future is with my wife but the past is haunting me... .

[Forearmed]

Romantic - I always say that we are all but degrees of hypocrite (meant i the nicest way possible : )

You indicate that this woman realises you are malleable/ were obsessed to a degree that: 1) Does nothing but feed her ego. 2) Allowed her to play you anyway she wanted (with no real pressure). I can't change your psychology overnight but, IMO, where you are now in your thought process is where you need to be.

It also feels like your marriage allowed you to create the natural space to not add the pressure more assertive personalities would have by now. And as a result would have either been dumped years ago (or seen as 'the one that got away' - who is sometimes recycled but messes the BPD around a bit more each time they do meet ). 

You see this situation clearly... .the rest is about your psychological make-up, my man : )   

[Cromwell]

Hi Romantic Fool

none of us had a crystal ball to see if our relationships would have worked out the way we hoped they would have. All of this is 'easier' in hindsight, easier in the sense we know what has happened, not so easy in trying to figure out why it didnt end up the way the dreams and the hopes have vaporised.

It is really early days now since NC of a long term relationship, its raw its recent, its going to feel "haunting" but it wont always feel that way as it might feel now. 

[RomanticFool]

I have to share on here. I have sunken into a trough of despair. I was worried this was going to happen and I know exactly why I am feeling this way. My ex was also a friend. Even though the texting was brief it was usually fairly regular. I miss hearing from her. I have always thought that my life would take a certain course and as I'm getting older, I am finding it isn't quite where I want it to go. Work wise, I am taking practical action to get it to where I want to be but much of it is outside of my control and there is a great deal of struggle involved. My ex was somebody I could at least talk to and get some respite from the difficult reality I find myself in. I miss her terribly but I can't allow her to keep playing with my heartstrings, it just isn't fair. I don't know where I go from here but at 55 I find my opportunities in life are getting narrower and tonight I felt like I didn't want to be here anymore. I haven't felt that way in a considerable time. The true nature of what my ex meant to me is always revealed when we lose contact.

[Forearmed]

I have to share on here. I have sunken into a trough of despair. I was worried this was going to happen and I know exactly why I am feeling this way. My ex was also a friend. Even though the texting was brief it was usually fairly regular. I miss hearing from her. I have always thought that my life would take a certain course and as I'm getting older, I am finding it isn't quite where I want it to go. Work wise, I am taking practical action to get it to where I want to be but much of it is outside of my control and there is a great deal of struggle involved. My ex was somebody I could at least talk to and get some respite from the difficult reality I find myself in. I miss her terribly but I can't allow her to keep playing with my heartstrings, it just isn't fair. I don't know where I go from here but at 55 I find my opportunities in life are getting narrower and tonight I felt like I didn't want to be here anymore. I haven't felt that way in a considerable time. The true nature of what my ex meant to me is always revealed when we lose contact.

Romantic - Firstly, i empathise with what you are saying. Secondly, if you were tight conversational friends, also having a romantic element would have often made your life feel better. Your personal issues are certainly bigger than just her (and it's not great dealing with compounding live factors - I've been there).  I can see how the lack of contact can make everything else seem worse.   

You've just got to keep talking and fighting step by step... .

[RomanticFool]

Thanks Forearmed,

I feel better this morning but it was a difficult evening last night. It’s kind of ironic really because I spent years being my ex’s shoulder to cry on and port in a storm and I don’t think she ever appreciated or valued our conversations or my company the way I did hers. I feel now that I was just somebody to make her feel better and could have been anybody. Perhaps before we got to the devaluing stage she thought of me as some worth in her life but mostly I was simply somebody to make her feel better. I could have been anybody as far as she is concerned. Her actions have born out just how little I really mean to her. I lost count of the number of times I metaphorically (and probably literally) talked her down off the ledge.

I do think her cutting me off FB was an attempt at trying to get me to talk to her. I know the tactic only too well having used it many times myself on her. My own indignation and abandonment fears led me to react in anger and pull the plug by blocking her on WhatsApp. We both in effect pressed the ‘nuke’ button. If she really wants to contact me she can still text me, but she won’t and I think it is for the best. I cannot be feeling constantly yearning and hoping for a fantasy love affair anymore. As painful as it is, it has been 17 months since we saw each other and I know that the r/s is now past the point of no return. I have radical acceptance around that issue, I just hope my moods do not sink constantly from now on with the realisation that I have lost a friend as much as a lover.

[Forearmed]

Romantic - No worries, my man. There is a LOT for you to process internally and that can only develop decently over the right amount of time.

A couple of things:  Your 'friendship' would have been largely one -sided (by nature of the BPD mindset). And your strength of loyalty extremely validating for your lady friend / sometimes lover.  Fact is, no one escapes getting jettisoned by a BPD when you start expressing your needs or dissatisfaction - that's not part of the deal if you're going to be involved.

Just understand, far fewer than you think actually 'win' (just because you now feel bereft and used). They live with 'themselves' every day. And even pathological delusion  - regardless of their ability to hook onto people and use them - often isn't near enough to deal with their own serious life fallout as they get older. 

IMO, in many ways a relationship with a BPD (esp. the devaluation phases) IMO , is the ultimate spiritual manifestation of projection:  YOU can end up feeling very close to how they do subconsciously! And that's why it's such a dangerous endeavour for the more vulnerable personality. The key IMO, if you manage to gain any awareness on what you're really dealing with, is the physical high of taking your 'drug' is too enticing... .but to 'cognitively' accept it will eventually do you in if you continue chasing it!

You've 'subconsciously' CHOSEN to quit... .that is your own soul saving you! The rest is the fight of life we all go through in many different ways and is often bloodly painful, right?

My point is you are being saved - it just won't and doesn't feel like it right now : )       

[RomanticFool]

Hi Forearmed,

Interesting points, especially about the ‘spiritual manifestation of projection.’

The key notion in all of this is something I have learnt here: we are attracted to our emotional equals. The vulnerability that you are talking about is actually the manifestation of my own personality traits.

I no longer see it as an ‘us and them’ situation. I understand my ex much better after being on these boards for the last 17 months. I was in despair when I came here after being in an identical situation to where I am now ie No Contact. Back then I was indignant at her behaviour; her disloyalty, the denial of our love pact, her Silent Treatment of me her betrayal of our perfect love.

However, 17 months on, I am no longer pointing the finger of blame at my ex, I am looking at my own behaviour. It is the only way forward. One of the major traits of a pwBPD is impairment of empathy. Guess what I did every time she did something I didn’t like? I showed no understanding or empathy towards her at all and would attack her verbally because I was so indignant at her behaviour. Guess what was at the root of that reaction in me? You got it: fear of abandonment. What is the major driver of all BPD behaviour? Yup: fear of abandonment.

WE ARE ATTRACTED TO OUR EMOTIONAL EQUALS. I have traits in my personality which I have always known are dysfunctional but which I now consider are very similar to BPD traits. Yes, my ex is more extreme than me and has more of the tick box criteria for BPD: Unstable self image, suicidal ideation and history of suicidal behaviour, fear of abandonment, emptiness, impulsivity, unstable interpersonal relationships and paranoia. If she has a range of BPD behaviours, I possibly have certain traits of NPD. I stress traits and not the full personality disorder. I am prone to indignation and anger when my ex’s behaviours trigger my own, I have empathic impairment under duress and I also engage in push/pull behaviours in a more extreme way than may be considered normal. I go back to the root of all of this behaviour: fear of abandonment.

So you see, I understand my ex only too well. I stood by her when she went into rehab and forgave some hurtful behaviour on her part. We had maintained something of a friendship over the last 17 months as my understanding of both of our pathologies increased. However, we are both married and it has been clear that she has no intention of ever changing her circumstances and I consider I owe it to my wife to be faithful and give our marriage a fair chance. Therefore when my ex cut me off FB because she considered I had visited ST upon her over the past week, I took the opportunity to go NC. I could have finessed the situation with the ex, I could have explained that she had mistaken my silence for something that it wasn’t, I was simply busy with work.

She had told me that she was coming to my home town with her husband and family. She had decided that ‘honesty was the best policy’ and she had considered that my ST was punishment. To some degree she was correct. I didn’t want to talk to her knowing she had been playing happy families and not able to talk to me. Perhaps an empathic person would have understood and asked me if I was feeling ok. Expecting that from a pwBPD, albeit undiagnosed in my ex’s case, is really expecting way too much. Most people are not cut out for affairs and a pwBPD or NPD traits even less so. I am beginning to understand my ex more fully. She will feel abandoned but she won’t be able to understand that my own constant feelings of yearning and unrequited desire/love for her are coming from the same root as her indignation at my perceived abandonment of her. It is all so sad and painful but the detachment is necessary for my sanity.

RF

[Forearmed]

Romantic, a very interesting response. And all is certainly complicated by both of you having marriage partners.

One point, being wholly 'empathic' to a BPD isn't even possible for a non with solid self-esteem. BPD simply demands too much, too unfairly over time. Yes, we might be dealing with the  emotional capacity of a toddler but they are still an adult. And an adult still capable of cognitively understanding that someone who defers to their [unfair] needs entirely won't be worthy of their respect.

Now, that really is a road to destruction.   

[RomanticFool]

Forearmed,

The way I look at a person with BPD is much the same way I have viewed myself for many years: They have the emotional volume turned up to maximum. That has been the case with me for many years. The emotional noise is so loud that I need to take action to keep it turned down. When I am feeling anxious or stressed or disturbed, I seek the solace of my quiet and calm home, I turn off any external irritant. That’s what my ex has been doing for many years with me. I have been screaming blue murder at her (at least she will have perceived it as such from her empathically imparted perspective) with demands that she return my love and passion. I always thought of her as emotionally shallow or incapable, but I think it is better to think of a pwBPD as somebody with impaired capacity to deal with extreme emotions. They will recoil if you make demands upon them. In my ex’s case she put up with my emotional intensity for as long as she could cope and when it became intolerable to her, she withdrew.

Now that does not excuse the behaviour but it simply is an understanding of what it must be like to live with a personality disorder. In my ex’s case her unstable self image led her to self loathing and an idea of herself as some kind of freak, which simply isn’t true. She needed my affirmation to redress the balance. I gave her love, passion and constant affirmation about herself for a long period of time. When she began the devaluation stage last year, it culminated in her telling me that she could no longer see me as her husband had discovered messages from me. I didn’t believe her and I broke off all contact. She may have been telling the truth but a few years earlier she would have said that she just needed to bide her time until things calmed down before meeting again. Significantly this time she told me that she couldn’t see me. I knew what that meant and shut her down before she could do it to me. A month later she told me that she had tried to take her own life. I don’t think my NC directly caused this suicide attempt but I’m sure it didn’t help and in her mind, she blamed me. There is so much emotional noise going on for a BPD that they cannot allow themselves to consider an alternative position to their own. Hence I will now have been painted black, no matter how justified I am in going NC after her cutting me off FB. She would have expected contrition from me and an apology for not talking to her for a week. I am so sick of this push/pull behaviour that hell would freeze over before I apologise when I’ve been in so much pain from our entanglement.

One thing I know for certain. If I want to get my ex back onside, all I have to do is contact her again and shower her with affirmations and validation. She has no self esteem. She needs an external ‘supply’ to make her feel better. Had I at any stage been prepared to accept her limitations and personality characteristics, I could have had a much easier time. She would still have turned on me in the end because that is their MO, but my own path may have been easier. However, I have my own needs and am not prepared to subjugate my own personality simply to keep a disordered woman onside. In my ex’s case her extreme depression and crazy-making addictive nature creates enough drama, had I been a completely selfless more emotionally intelligent person I could perhaps have made myself indispensable to her. However, that is not who I am.

[Forearmed]

She would still have turned on me in the end because that is their MO, but my own path may have been easier. However, I have my own needs and am not prepared to subjugate my own personality simply to keep a disordered woman onside. In my ex’s case her extreme depression and crazy-making addictive nature creates enough drama, had I been a completely selfless more emotionally intelligent person I could perhaps have made myself indispensable to her. However, that is not who I am.
[/quote]

Romantic,

I absolutely hear you. The good thing is you have enough of a cognitive handle on all this. In essence, the way to gain a 'win' (of sorts)  is perhaps twofold:  1) To be strong enough to realise a BPD relationship will not survive a *strong -charactered non* (the average acting -out BPD being highly unattractive in my case!)  2) If you have the good fortune to understand enough of the syndrome - and are not up for long -term pain - you take the best parts of it and simply coolly get on with your life EVERY time you're out of it.   

Best : )

[RomanticFool]

I don’t think coolly keeping a distance is a possibility for me. After 17 months on here, I’m not confident about describing myself as a non anymore. Remember what I said that we are attracted to our emotional equals. There is a reason why so many of us on here fell so hard for our BPDs. In my case we both have abandonment issues that we go to extreme lengths to avoid. When we feel let down we lash out. Me verbally, her with Silent Treatment and sometimes verbally too. Given we are both in AA and all the other issues I listed, it was a dangerous cocktail. I consider my ex and I are both lucky be out of it in one piece.

RF

[Forearmed]

Oh, don't get me wrong : ) My last post was a very generalised statement for others. I certainly took on board where you're at. Keep fighting and work at that marriage! 

[RomanticFool]

I’m still very up and down about my ex. Hoping the loneliness will subside soon. Just illustrates how much of my time was spent thinking about her.

[Insom]

Hi, RF!

I’m still very up and down about my ex. Hoping the loneliness will subside soon. Just illustrates how much of my time was spent thinking about her.

I hear how hard this has felt.  How did the rest of today go?  Still up and down?

[RomanticFool]

Hi Insom,

It’s touch and go at the moment. I am missing the contact but I know it was the right thing to do. I am also now wondering whether she cut me off FB knowing exactly what my reaction would be and makes me wonder whether I’ve been ‘played.’ Since she was with her family and I had wished her a ‘good day’ the timing of her decision to cut me off FB seems a little odd. I believed at the time that she was expecting contrition from me and an acknowledgment of how wonderful she is for being ‘honest’ about coming to my home town with her family. In any case, I’ll never truly know the real motive behind the action as I blocked her on WhatsApp before I got the full explanation. I was tired of push/pull and the r/s was clearly over as I think she had lost interest due to me no longer chasing and giving her ‘supply.’. It was only a matter of time. The last time this happened 17 months ago, I actually contacted her which was when she made her suicide attempt claim. Whatever is going on, I don’t think she will make any attempt in the short term to contact me. I’m sure she feels justified in cutting me off FB and if there is a new supply then I am now out of her way.

[Skip]

I believed at the time that she was expecting contrition from me and an acknowledgment of how wonderful she is for being ‘honest’ about coming to my home town with her family. In any case, I’ll never truly know the real motive behind the action as I blocked her on WhatsApp before I got the full explanation. ... .//... .I don’t think she will make any attempt in the short term to contact me. I’m sure she feels justified in cutting me off FB and if there is a new supply then I am now out of her way.

RomanticFool,

I have long recommended that you let go of this and go forward for your own health. That is logic. You know it is for the best.

Emotions are something else.

I think what you are fighting with the emotion of hope. You still have hope this will work out. You still have hope that if you withdraw she will hurt and come back to you. You still have hope, when you check Facebook, that you can see her profile and a sign of reversing what has happened over the last year. You have hope tat some words, some action, will fix this.

Sometimes just finding a quiet space and letting go of the hope is what we need. To let go of the hope that the right dance move fixes everything.

Did you ever see this? https://www.youtube.com/embed/STyqdrqv4Kw

She wrote this years before this performance, but you can see in her eyes the acceptance of the futility of hope.

Just as a point of perspective, this latest social media battle will end as the last 100 social media battles ended and all will be better again, but not right. Something else will eventually happen - and there will be another social media cutoff (you or her, you mostly). Repeatedly blocking each other as a way to make the other person reach out is not helping anyone. I'd unblock her and end the practice of blocking for good. If you send her a note that says, sorry I didn't handle this well, the acute drama ends. End the tension.

I remember a psychologist explaining that often, when a long standing relationship is done, the only thing left between the parties is trauma (emotional connection) and they stay connected to it for a while to delay the eventuality of the final separation. Is that where you are? Clinging to trauma because it is the last emotional connection to her and you don't want to let it go?

[BeagleGirl]

I remember a psychologist explaining that often, when a long standing relationship is done, the only thing left between the parties is trauma (emotional connection) and they stay connected to it for a while to delay the eventuality of the final separation. Is that where you are? Clinging to trauma because it is the last emotional connection to her and you don't want to let it go?

RomanticFool,
I don't know if this is where you are, but I very much remember being in that sort of place with my dBPDxh.  I called it "taking his temperature".  I didn't really acknowledge it at the time, but in hindsight I see that I would say something just to see where he was, fully knowing that the response would cause me pain.  It was a way for me to remind myself that the hope I was holding onto was not reasonable or helpful, but it was also a way to feel "seen" by him.  Even being lashed out at was better than feeling invisible.  I still catch myself wanting to do this, but the urge comes less frequently, and I've learned to coach myself through it.

I DEFINITELY have spent way too many hours trying to mind read dBPDxh and make sense of his actions and what they mean.  I would suggest (to myself as well as you) that is completely wasted effort.  When I think of it more objectively, the odds of me being able to figure out why someone did something when they probably couldn't even begin to understand for themselves why they did it... .well, they aren't good.

I now try to shift my thoughts from "Why did they do that?  What message were they sending me?" to "What am I feeling?  What do I want?  What do I want to want?  How do I turn towards what I want to want?"

Try to give yourself some grace in all of this.  It's exhausting to have your mind running in circles around someone and there doesn't seem to be a magic switch to get the thought merry-go-round to stop.  It takes time and effort to slow it down.  Sometimes you just have to hang on for a few rounds, then start dragging your feet again. 

Are there any activities that give you a break from the obsessive thoughts?  Outdoor walks seem to help me a lot.  I may still be thinking of the person/situation, but the energy seems to be drained from the thoughts and expended physically and the thoughts become more manageable. 

BG

[Insom]

I know you're thinking a lot about her right now and can relate to how hard it feels to stop.

FWIW, from the outside it looks like you've taken a giant detour from where you were few weeks ago when you were more able to address the difficult but real issues you have re: your marriage, family history and the direction you feel your life is going.

I'd love to support you in getting off the detour.  What can you do to redirect yourself?  What life skills/resources can you call upon to get yourself pointed in at least a slightly better-feeling direction?

There is a whole community of people here who know things can get a lot better for you because we've been where you are.  We are rooting for you!

[RomanticFool]

I know you're thinking a lot about her right now and can relate to how hard it feels to stop.

It's partly grief and partly my MO. I can't cheat my emotions. I once took 10 years to get over a previous r/s. There is definitely something abnormal about my emotional life. The volume is turned up all the time. It would be easy to say BPD traits but maybe it's to do with the way I process grief. I'm not sure. If I could afford it I'd go into therapy and try and unpick it, but I can't at the moment.

FWIW, from the outside it looks like you've taken a giant detour from where you were few weeks ago when you were more able to address the difficult but real issues you have re: your marriage, family history and the direction you feel your life is going.

I'd love to support you in getting off the detour.  What can you do to redirect yourself?  What life skills/resources can you call upon to get yourself pointed in at least a slightly better-feeling direction?

I think quite opposite. This is progress. There is no fantasy life now. It has gone. Just my wife and I. Indeed I've noticed that I have been very loving and appreciative towards her recently. The third leg of the stool is gone. Yes, I am grieving the detachment from the ex and there are bad days and will be more ahead, I'm sure, but the good news is that I am no longer having clandestine trysts and cheating on the woman I married. There is nobody to detour with and the reality of my wife's presence is very good for me, I think. What I mean is that I am living in the here and now rather than my brain being on the ex all the time. Yes, she occupies my thoughts and there is sadness but it is not the same kind of preoccupation as constantly wanting to be with her. She is out of the picture, never to return. That can olny be good for my marriage.

There is a whole community of people here who know things can get a lot better for you because we've been where you are.  We are rooting for you!

Thank you. I appreciate everybody's help. I don't know where I would be if I hadn't discovered this site. I think the understanding I have gained regarding BPD has not only helped to understand my ex's behaviour, I think it explains much about my own emotional life and my triggers.

[RomanticFool]

Skip,

You certainly have a way of hitting the nail on the head.

Did you ever see this? https://www.youtube.com/embed/STyqdrqv4Kw

She wrote this years before this performance, but you can see in her eyes the acceptance of the futility of hope.

I love this song and the band. Very painful to watch.

I think what you are fighting with the emotion of hope. You still have hope this will work out. You still have hope that if you withdraw she will hurt and come back to you. You still have hope, when you check Facebook, that you can see her profile and a sign of reversing what has happened over the last year. You have hope tat some words, some action, will fix this.

Sometimes just finding a quiet space and letting go of the hope is what we need. To let go of the hope that the right dance move fixes everything.

I think this is accurate. I guess we push people that we love away when we are hurting in the hope that it will prick their empathy and they will come back to us with a new found softness and understanding. That is never going to happen with my ex. I think I pushed her away this time partly in retaliation to her hurting me, as most of my actions are, but also because I am genuinely fed up with the constant unrequited yearning for her.

I have long recommended that you let go of this and go forward for your own health. That is logic. You know it is for the best.

Emotions are something else.

And this is precisely what I am stuck with. I know I have to let her go but I am still crazy about her. The same position for many years.

Just as a point of perspective, this latest social media battle will end as the last 100 social media battles ended and all will be better again, but not right. Something else will eventually happen - and there will be another social media cutoff (you or her, you mostly). Repeatedly blocking each other as a way to make the other person reach out is not helping anyone. I'd unblock her and end the practice of blocking for good. If you send her a note that says, sorry I didn't handle this well, the acute drama ends. End the tension.

What if she has met somebody else and her cutting me off FB was her way of getting me out of the picture? I am genuinely frightened that more pain is waiting if I try to reverse this. And if I do reverse it she will make me pay for having the temerity to stand up to her. What would be the point? We have both pressed the 'nuke' button. Aren't we at the point of no return? I certainly feel that way. The only thing that would change it is if I thought she might harm herself due to losing the connection with me... .but we went down that road last year and I was told it wasn't necessarily to do with me. Confusion reigns!

I remember a psychologist explaining that often, when a long standing relationship is done, the only thing left between the parties is trauma (emotional connection) and they stay connected to it for a while to delay the eventuality of the final separation. Is that where you are? Clinging to trauma because it is the last emotional connection to her and you don't want to let it go?

The whole r/s has been emotional trauma. From the word go. That is no exaggeration either. Mostly her emotional trauma. I have been on the other end of texts from her when things were going well but we had a disagreement and the next thing she is threatening to jump off a multi-storey car park. Or when she was drinking and thought I didn't want to talk to her, she sent me a text saying she was having her hair cut because in ancient tribes that is what women did when their lovers deserted them.

Everything she says or does cuts me to my vulnerable core. She has the ability to destroy my peace of mind with a well judged phrase or comment, just as she says I have the wherewithal to do to her.

I was happy to keep a friendship going because I think ultimately we both want to be in contact. The problem is with her, and this is where we differ and where I think I am less damaged, there is no consistency and she will change on a daily basis. She can easily wake up one morning and decide to block me or not talk to me for reasons I have no idea about. Sometimes due to her depression. She will never discuss anything or tell me what is going on for her unless I probe. Even when I do so and try to be understanding, I am accused of selfishness and making it all about me. Which is projection on her part because this r/s has always been about her needs. She has always controlled it and has always held all the cards. The reason I have cut her off FB so many times is that it was literally my only card to play. In fact I have had to train myself to be less forthcoming about my feelings lest she holds it against me.

My choice with her is simple: I become a caregiver who retains no desire for her company or love and is simply prepared to listen to her problems, to give her affirmation and tell her how wonderful and beautiful she is in every text. Or I do what I am doing now and attempt to get her out of my life once and for all, against my deepest wishes and desires and against all sense of my own empathy for a damaged, yet manipulative and ultimately unreliable person.

[RomanticFool]

So I just unblocked her from WhatsApp and the first thing I see is that she was last on there at 11pm last night. This is a woman I rarely hear from after 10pm. My instincts are usually correct in these matters.  I don't think I want to talk to her, but I will leave her number unblocked. As far as I want to go for now.

[RomanticFool]

RomanticFool,
I don't know if this is where you are, but I very much remember being in that sort of place with my dBPDxh.  I called it "taking his temperature".  I didn't really acknowledge it at the time, but in hindsight I see that I would say something just to see where he was, fully knowing that the response would cause me pain.  It was a way for me to remind myself that the hope I was holding onto was not reasonable or helpful, but it was also a way to feel "seen" by him.  Even being lashed out at was better than feeling invisible.  I still catch myself wanting to do this, but the urge comes less frequently, and I've learned to coach myself through it.

I DEFINITELY have spent way too many hours trying to mind read dBPDxh and make sense of his actions and what they mean.  I would suggest (to myself as well as you) that is completely wasted effort.  When I think of it more objectively, the odds of me being able to figure out why someone did something when they probably couldn't even begin to understand for themselves why they did it... .well, they aren't good.

I now try to shift my thoughts from "Why did they do that?  What message were they sending me?" to "What am I feeling?  What do I want?  What do I want to want?  How do I turn towards what I want to want?"

Try to give yourself some grace in all of this.  It's exhausting to have your mind running in circles around someone and there doesn't seem to be a magic switch to get the thought merry-go-round to stop.  It takes time and effort to slow it down.  Sometimes you just have to hang on for a few rounds, then start dragging your feet again.  

Are there any activities that give you a break from the obsessive thoughts?  Outdoor walks seem to help me a lot.  I may still be thinking of the person/situation, but the energy seems to be drained from the thoughts and expended physically and the thoughts become more manageable.  

BG

Trying to second guess her thought process has been my regular pastime for as long as I can remember. Usually relying on very little source material to give my guessing game any credence.

I do lots of things that should take my mind off her but seldom do. I go running, I play the piano, I am working in the evenings right now and I have just had a massive distraction of the World Cup. I am not exaggerating when I say that literally everyone of these activities is spent with her not far from my thoughts. Me constantly wondering what she is doing and wishing she could be with me to share all of the wonderful things I do. There ain't no cure for love as they say!

[BeagleGirl]

RomanticFool,
I DEFINITELY relate to the obsessive thoughts.  I would say that it took a good 18 months of minimal contact with my affair partner (he works for the same company in a related position, so NC is not quite achievable) before I wasn't spending an unhealthy amount of time thinking about him, and it's probably only been in the last 3-6 months that I don't think of him every day or feel like contact with him could send me into a bit of a tailspin. 

Here are some thoughts I have about things that have helped me.  I'd love to hear whether you think any of them might be helpful for you.

I shifted my view of what "loving him" was.  It's really attractive to term the longing I felt for him and the obsessive thinking about him "loving him".  I didn't want to stop loving him, because love is beautiful and I'm a loving person... .You can see how that thought process goes.  What I shifted towards was understanding that what I was calling "loving him" was doing neither of us any good.  In fact, it was harmful.  We had each made our choice to stay in our marriages and the way that I was holding onto my "love" for him could only cause pain to all involved.  The truest form of love I could offer was to allow him to walk his chosen path without the unnecessary contact or content that my longing would inevitably add.  I also had to let go of any thoughts of any sort of relationship with him EVER.  That idea of someday running into him when both of us are "free" and rekindling what we had, or even having a platonic friendship kept "hope" alive and gave me a reason to continue the obsessive thinking.

Another tactic I learned - more with my dBPDxh than with my affair partner - was to short circuit obsessive thoughts about him and what he was doing by stubbornly refocusing on myself.  The first step was rephrasing my thoughts to take myself out of the victim role.  I'll give you an example from one of your previous posts:

"Everything she says or does cuts me to my vulnerable core. She has the ability to destroy my peace of mind with a well judged phrase or comment, just as she says I have the wherewithal to do to her."

Becomes:

"Everything she says or does cuts me to my vulnerable core.  I have given her the ability to destroy my peace of mind with a well judged phrase or comment, just as she says I have the wherewithal to do to her."

Step 2 is to focus on the only thing you can change - YOU.  It's really easy to spend hours and hours dwelling on how she has and can hurt you and try to figure out why she would be willing to do that, and how she would need to change in order to stop hurting you and what you could do to make her change... .I think you know that thought process.  By rephrasing as I've done above, you open up a whole other thought process that is far more productive.

Why am I giving her that kind of power?

Do I want her to have that power?

How do I take back that power?

None of those are easy questions, but I can assure you that the answers to those questions are infinitely more attainable than the answers to the questions about her.

One final thought.  Not only can we get stuck viewing ourselves as the victim.  I guess I should speak for myself.    Not only can I get stuck viewing myself as a victim.  I can also get stuck viewing myself as the hero in the story of our relationship.  I have tended to do this with my dBPDxh.  You would think that if I saw all the horrible things he has done as clearly as I was able to articulate them I would never want to think of him again.  The think is, I knew I was better than him, and staying engaged with him gave me continual reassurance that I was a better, if not good, person.  I didn't treat him that way.  I always had his best interests in mind.  In our relationship I was the hero, rescuing and cleaning up messes.  That's a whole lot more comfortable to focus on than all the ways I was unhealthy and imperfect, or had hurt him or others around me. 

So I guess I'm wondering if you see yourself doing any of these things.  If so, I'd love to dialogue on them because I need to work through them too.

BG

[Insom]

If I could afford it I'd go into therapy and try and unpick it, but I can't at the moment.

I hear you.  It can feel hard to prioritize self-care when you have other, competing needs.

I appreciate everybody's help. I don't know where I would be if I hadn't discovered this site. I think the understanding I have gained regarding BPD has not only helped to understand my ex's behaviour, I think it explains much about my own emotional life and my triggers.

Thanks for this feedback, RF.  I'm with you and have also gained a lot of understanding here.  It's because of this site that I finally found the courage (and marshalled the resources!) to get myself into therapy and it's speeded things along for me in ways I didn't expect.  Anyway, I don't want to sound iike I'm proselytizing, but will you allow me to nudge you a bit?

[RomanticFool]

I will answer both of these posts in more detail later. My overriding feeling is that what I am missing is the presence of another human being. In my youth when I was in this situation I would eventually meet somebody else and all pain would subside. Like the man who goes into therapy, falls in love (not necessarily with the therapist) and no longer needs therapy... .until the break up. I basically feel that all of my behaviour and all of her behaviour needs looking at but let’s face it, if she wasn’t a damn attractive woman with a ‘come save me’ sign on her head, I wouldn’t be in this situation. I know that’s a tad facile and will respond with less whimsical post after work tonight!

[RomanticFool]

BeagleGirl,

What I shifted towards was understanding that what I was calling "loving him" was doing neither of us any good.  In fact, it was harmful.  We had each made our choice to stay in our marriages and the way that I was holding onto my "love" for him could only cause pain to all involved.

I think the area in which the r/s with the ex has done me the most damage is the grey area between her commitment to her husband and her devaluation of their r/s. When we first met, she told me that their r/s was terrible, he never kissed her and that he shows her no emotion whatsoever. Fast forward 16 years later to now and she doesn't talk about him in those negative terms anymore. In fact she has become more supportive of him because of his illness and also due to the devaluation of myself. In the beginning I was the good guy and now I am the bad guy. So in terms of the love you speak about, it has confused me because while I have been utterly consistent with how I feel about her my behaviour has been reactive and punishing towards her for not loving me as I need her to and how she once did (or least appeared to) prior to the devaluation. There was an emotional shift in her, admittedly over a long period of time and no doubt she would say caused by my own behaviour towards her. I am very uncompromising with people who hurt me. No matter how much I love and care for her, there will be a sting in the tail because I want to at least make her aware that treating me so very badly is not acceptable. I think part of what has fuelled my own anger/punishment/rebellion towards her is self-righteous indignation at how her feelings have changed and how cruelly she has behaved. In fact the more detached from her I become, the less I am likely to ever allow myself to go back to putting up with that sort of treatment. In fact if I hadn't discovered that she probably has BPD traits, I may well have behaved in a far more uncompromising manner towards her. That is the passion I inherited from my mother and the intolerance. Not blaming my mother in any way for my own personality traits but she was my role model in my youth.

I also had to let go of any thoughts of any sort of relationship with him EVER.

I feel I am reaching this point now. As Skip said, letting go of the hope of a r/s is what I think is occurring in me now. I am also getting in touch with my own self care, which has been sadly lacking throughout this r/s because I have been so keen to see her and not upset any chance of being with her. What my mind is telling me now is that under no circumstances must I ever put myself in a long term r/s again where somebody has initially lied to me and then is not available. In fact, don't get involved with anybody in another r/s. Back in Phase 1 of this r/s I was less inclined to put up with the ST and push/pull behaviour because my own abandonment issues inherited from my mother told me that if somebody is messing you around, get rid of them immediately. I was much harder on my ex during my younger days. Even then it lasted 2 years, largely of emotional turmoil and pain.

Another tactic I learned - more with my dBPDxh than with my affair partner - was to short circuit obsessive thoughts about him and what he was doing by stubbornly refocusing on myself.  The first step was rephrasing my thoughts to take myself out of the victim role.  I'll give you an example from one of your previous posts:

"Everything she says or does cuts me to my vulnerable core. She has the ability to destroy my peace of mind with a well judged phrase or comment, just as she says I have the wherewithal to do to her."

Becomes:

"Everything she says or does cuts me to my vulnerable core.  I have given her the ability to destroy my peace of mind with a well judged phrase or comment, just as she says I have the wherewithal to do to her."

I don't see myself as a victim in general. However, I have had this discussion on here before and I must say that I do see myself as a victim of her disordered personality. The reason being that since being on here I have discovered that my own behaviour is very similar to hers. Notably the push/pull, the pushing away, the extreme emotional pain, the obsessive mind, the volatility. My emotional equal is more than that, she is me and I am her. Yes, she is more extreme and self destructive, but we are coming from the same root: abandonment. That's why we got on so well. However, she is the real BPD and I am vulnerable one in terms of caring too much about her. She can switch her emotions on and off like a tap. I cannot. Or at least she can stop caring about me very quickly. She is the one with all of the other BPD behaviours which makes her a dangerous and impulsive person who will always trigger my own volatility. We are combustible. This is the same danger you spoke of earlier. I am highly punishing (not physically) when I consider somebody is being unreasonable with me and if they visit their madness upon me and are prepared to hurt me with no compunction, then my own rejection issues kick in and I can become a very unpleasant character. This is something I am discovering on here and trying to combat. It's that kind of 'nobody hurts me and gets away with it' mentality.

Step 2 is to focus on the only thing you can change - YOU.  It's really easy to spend hours and hours dwelling on how she has and can hurt you and try to figure out why she would be willing to do that, and how she would need to change in order to stop hurting you and what you could do to make her change... .I think you know that thought process.  By rephrasing as I've done above, you open up a whole other thought process that is far more productive.

Why am I giving her that kind of power?

Do I want her to have that power?

How do I take back that power?

I find all of your questions very easy to answer. I focus so much on what she is doing because I am totally besotted with her. Or was. I give her the power sometimes because it is the only way I can get to see her. Other times it is because I know she is disordered and there is no point demanding what she cannot give ie the kind of love I want from her. I often decide that I don't want her to have that power and I often take it back by slamming the door shut in her face. Hence the numerous times I've cut her off FB and kept away from her. That is precisely what I am doing now because she cut me off FB at a time when all was calm and peaceful between us. Somewhere down the line she obviously decided to test my reaction by telling me she was coming to my home town with her family. I didn't so much give her ST as just get on with a very busy period in my work without giving too much thought to her playing happy families. She has interpreted this as rejection. I suppose to some degree she is correct. It was rejection of the notion that I am going to collude in her fake happy families by giving her family life credence when we both know she has been having an affair.

One final thought.  Not only can we get stuck viewing ourselves as the victim.  I guess I should speak for myself.  smiley  Not only can I get stuck viewing myself as a victim.  I can also get stuck viewing myself as the hero in the story of our relationship.  I have tended to do this with my dBPDxh.  You would think that if I saw all the horrible things he has done as clearly as I was able to articulate them I would never want to think of him again.  The think is, I knew I was better than him, and staying engaged with him gave me continual reassurance that I was a better, if not good, person.  I didn't treat him that way.  I always had his best interests in mind.  In our relationship I was the hero, rescuing and cleaning up messes.  That's a whole lot more comfortable to focus on than all the ways I was unhealthy and imperfect, or had hurt him or others around me.  

So I guess I'm wondering if you see yourself doing any of these things.  If so, I'd love to dialogue on them because I need to work through them too.

I see myself as both victim and hero and to be honest, I think every living soul on this planet sees themselves in those terms. We are after all the hero in our own life stories. I have been the victim of largely unrequited a love. A woman who I now feel was using me for her 'supply', when my love was genuine, real and long-lasting. Hers was largely bullsh*t. I am not even sure if she is capable of love. She did a very good impression of it with me and I guess that is the thing that hurts the most. I feel like an emotional trick has been played on me.

[RomanticFool]

Insom,

Do you mean nudge me towards therapy? We are back to the financial issue... .