I think I'm doing okay...and then he contacts me again.

[WindofChange]

I just need to get my thoughts out here, because I'm not sure how to handle this. I moved out almost 3 months ago, started with NC about a month ago. But he called me this weekend in a very bad way. He's unemployed and living on his own and says he's completely out of money. He's very depressed and has talked about suicide before. He says he won't accept help from friends who have offered it, and won't apply for assistance. He's been looking for a job for a couple of months. My heart breaks for him. I hate that he's so down and having such a hard time. I know I don't want to be back in this relationship, because I know it's not good for either of us. But I want so much to help in some way. Logically, though, other than giving him a few bucks, I know there's not much I can do.

Some background: Last year he was out of work for a few months and I took care of our bills (just barely--I don't make that much money). It caused issues between us later, because once he was working again, instead of trying to pay me back, he was buying games for his gaming system and going out to eat every day. He did finally pay me back when he got his tax return, to an extent, but that whole issue only added all of our other problems.
Several times over the last year of our relationship, I caught him in lies. He swears he's never cheated on me, but he lied about going to work (either not going in or leaving early). I only found out because I came home early one day not feeling well and, surprise! He was home. He said he lied because he didn't want to fight about it. But I started wondering if there was someone else. Then he lied about other things--meeting a female coworker at a bar one night because he was "worried she'd get drunk and because she was by herself, some man might take advantage of her." Lying about who was with him when he went out to eat with coworkers in the evening. Lied about having dinner plans with a male friend one night--when I found out his friend was at home, I confronted him, and he said he just wanted to drive around and have some time to himself. Come on.
Now, I'm not completely innocent. Six years ago, early on in our relationship, I had a man who started calling me and telling me he needed a friend to talk to, blah blah, and I met him for dinner. I kept this from my ex, but later he found out and he was very hurt. It was wrong, I know, and nothing like that ever happened again, but he never trusted me after that. That was his trump card, whenever we had an argument. And he used that to justify his lies later on... .when we were living together and engaged, five years later. A much deeper level of commitment, in my opinion. Maybe he didn't see it that way, I don't know. I drove myself crazy wondering if he was with anyone else in the last year, wondering who he met that night this past spring when he lied about being with his friend. It made me so jealous and insecure. I guess I just need to accept that I'll never know the extent of the lies, and let it go. Some days I feel I'm making progress, but other days I feel I'm back at square one.

Fast forward to now: Could he be lying about the severity of his situation to gain my sympathy? I'm to the point where I don't believe anything he says... .and yet I still feel bad for him and want to help him. What kind of screwed up thinking is that?
 
So I'm trying to figure out what to do. I told him a month ago that we couldn't talk anymore. A couple weeks went by and he called me just to tell me something that had happened. Another week goes by and he calls to tell me something else. Last week he called because he was upset about something. Yesterday he called again. I guess it's my fault for answering the phone and responding to his texts. Do I ignore his calls/texts from now on? Do I send another message saying, "please don't contact me anymore"? From the way he talks, he sounds so fragile emotionally, I don't want to be too harsh with him. I just can't seem to stop worrying about him. I feel guilty because I feel that by ending our relationship, I've only added to his depression and pain (but the job loss didn't happen until after I left). I just don't know what the right answer is in how to handle the NC thing. Any suggestions?

[Harley Quinn]

WindofChange that's one of the toughest dilemmas that come up when these r/s's end for many of us.  Especially if we are getting the 'woe is me' stories in the wake of the breakup.  I can relate as I remained involved to my detriment by trying to help.  The person I failed to help in doing so was myself.  I would hate to see that happen to you. 

He says he won't accept help from friends who have offered it, and won't apply for assistance.

OK this stood out to me in your post.  It sounds like he's unprepared to help himself with other possible solutions apart from laying on the guilt with you.  What does that say to you?

He's very depressed and has talked about suicide before.

My heart breaks for him. I hate that he's so down and having such a hard time.

I just can't seem to stop worrying about him. I feel guilty because I feel that by ending our relationship, I've only added to his depression and pain (but the job loss didn't happen until after I left).

WoC, you're a compassionate person and care about this man.  Just because we break up with someone doesn't mean we can turn off those feelings.  Of course you are concerned about him, and I know how hard it is to not be when your ex is so unwell and is making sure you know about what he is going through.

Please don't forget that he actually does have options available to him, and is turning them down.  Are you familiar with FOG? (fear, obligation and guilt).  If my ex partner is anything to go by (and they certainly seem to have a lot in common) then it's pretty likely that he is an expert in creating these feelings in others in order to achieve his aims. 

I know this may sound harsh right now, but first and foremost you have yourself to think of at this point in time.  That is not selfish.  It is self preservation.  You need to recover and move forwards for your own wellbeing.  He can actually choose to get himself all of the help he needs from friends, the government, and so on.  He isn't doing and the only way he will act to help himself is if he is not successful in having you sort things out instead.  Stepping away is the bigger kindness.

This helped me to have perspective on the idea of going NC. 

"No Contact" is mostly about the non-borderline forcing "distance" into the relationship to help the non-borderline heal; to get the "space" needed to get over the hurt; get on with their lives.

The key elements of "No Contact" are

to get the partner out of your day-to-day life,
to stop thinking in terms of a relationship,
to take them out of your vision of the future,
to stop wondering about how they are perceiving everything you are doing, and
to stop obsessing with how they are reacting (or not reacting) or what they are doing.

These are the simple objectives of "No Contact". You may need to remind yourself every day of what you are trying to do. It takes focus and determination to do this - at a time when you probably just want to sit down and cry. Just keep reminding yourself that it takes great strength and determination to be emotionally healthy.

It is not about doing something mean to him.  It is about doing something that is good for you.  Here's the full article: https://bpdfamily.com/content/no-contact-right-way-wrong-way

Love and light x         

[Cromwell]

You paid his bills before, he got a job and spent his first wage on computer games rather than paying you back?

If he is unemployed the answer is simple, get a job.

Sell every item he has, get welfare or ask someone else. It stands out to me that he doesnt ask anyone else because there is a likelihood they wouldnt. You helped him before so it is a case of "nothing to lose by asking".

He hasnt respected that you didnt want contact with him, his lack of employment is not an excuse to pester you with.

Be firm and dont enable, I know how hard it can be when the emotional manipulation comes into play, I 'rescued' my ex a few times, got the same whiny voicemails after 2 weeks of going NC that she couldnt cope, lost her job, had no electricity. I should have just given a box of candles, if you pander to their every want it doesnt get appreciated from my experience - his lack of paying you back after your kindness the first time is evidence of it.

[WindofChange]

HQ, thanks for your reply. Sounds like you've really been through it, too, with your ex! You're right, he is good at the FOG ploy. And I tend to feel guilty about stuff anyway, so I've been vulnerable to it. I appreciate the section of the article you posted about NC. (I intend to go and read the full article soon.) I started out thinking I'd do okay with this NC thing--but I left openings. I didn't block his number, and I've responded to texts and calls. When I've suggested to him different things to try, he just says no, he won't do it. He feels embarrassed to apply for welfare. But... .he called me yesterday in a better mood and let me know a family member had loaned him money for the rent. Then he invited me to come and spend the night with him (?). I told him that wouldn't be a good idea. My fault for talking to him. It encouraged him. I understand the NC thing, and yes, I need to stick to it and stop worrying and obsessing about him. As people where I come from would say, I didn't take him to raise, . It's just easier said than done. But I know in the long run, it's what's best for me.
Cromwell, when I read the way you've summarized what I said, wow, I sound like a fool, don't I? But you make really good points, and I appreciate what you said! I should clarify that he didn't go and spend his first check on computer games. He did give me portions of his paychecks toward our rent and other expenses, once he had money coming in again. And he took me out to dinner as well, to treat me, he said (although now I wonder if it wasn't just to treat himself as well). But then, instead of offering to pay me $50 here and there, when he could, he'd go and spend that on a computer game. I'd call him on it, and he would get defensive. He also ate out every day at work. I pack my lunch almost all the time. And if I owed someone money, it would eat at me until I paid them back. He didn't seem bothered by it. When I started expressing frustration at the fact that he wasn't paying me back, he'd say, "I guess it's just all about the money. That's all that matters to you." He owes his ex-wife money, too... .
He says he's looking for a job but isn't having any luck. His frequent job turnovers don't help that situation, I'm sure. But when I suggested that he might have to take a 2nd or 3rd shift job, he said he can't because that would cut into the time he would get to see his child. I told him that he might have to make that sacrifice for now in order to pay his bills--but he refuses. So he'd rather continue to not work than to suck it up and take whatever he can get for now. And HQ, it's probably true that making others feel sorry for him and offer to help him has worked for him in the past, so he continues to do it. At least I haven't offered him any money, and I won't.
Cromwell, he never did respect boundaries... .but I allowed him to walk over them. You're right, I need to stop enabling him. I do need to be firm. Being wishy washy isn't helping him or me. (I liked your remark about the candles, ha ha!) What I have done is looked up places in the area where he lives and given him the numbers and/or websites of places to contact for assistance. I think he did call a few of them, but he said they didn't have funding for the summer. Although who knows? As I've said, he's lied to me many times. When I think back over all I put up with, I am amazed at myself. I was never in a relationship like this before, and I never allowed anyone to treat me like this--not to this extent anyway.

So, I know, I'm an adult woman and should know how to do this, but for some reason, I don't know exactly what to say to (again) end contact. Do I just say, we are no longer together, and continuing to communicate with each other isn't good for either of us? Please don't contact me anymore, and I wish you well. Something to that effect? For some reason, I'm just really bad at this.

[Harley Quinn]

It isn't that you're bad at it.  In a 'normal' r/s we wouldn't expect to have to say that!  So I'm not sure any of us come with a manual on this but I think that what you've said sounds about spot on.  You're not leaving a door open, getting too emotional or creating any hope for the future.  There should be no maybe's, no if's, no 'I love you's' (as hard as that is) and it needs to be what you want loud and clear.  Here's basically what I said:

xxxx, we both know it's over between us.  It's not a good idea for us to keep in contact.  I know this is hard and I'm sorry.  We both need to get on with our lives, heal and get better.  Please don't contact me again.  It is for the best for both of us.  Look after yourself.

It was formed after reading copious amounts of info on how best to do this and what to include, what to definitely leave out, etc.  No kisses on the end, no emotion, for example.  Just direct and short.  The 'I know it's hard' part is validation thrown in for good measure, as this was advised somewhere.  Sorry I forget all the sources, as I read so much... .

You will find what works for you as it needs to be in your voice, but in a restrained non emotional version of your voice, so it will likely feel forced and stilted.  You may get an instant response.  :)on't pick up.  You're setting a boundary on yourself.  This is about you.  I hope that helps.

Love and light x

[WindofChange]

Thanks, Harley Quinn. I appreciate your response. The validation part is a good tip, and I'll definitely use something similar. I kind of feel like it seems childish of me to ask for advice on what to say, but it's just hard--as you well know from your own experience. I really appreciate your input!

[Roler]

... .I kind of feel like it seems childish of me to ask for advice on what to say, but it's just hard... .

 Not at all childish! I for one spent almost an entire session with my T on it. And felt so relieved we had discussed it. Advice is the best thing to ask sometimes and with it, you then go ahead and make it your words.

[WindofChange]

Thanks, Roler. I appreciate that!   Still working on some self-esteem issues, . This site is great for practical advice, too.

[Cromwell]

Sometimes no answer is an answer.

I twice went NC without any warning or explanation. It worked.

Its pretty obvious when someone cuts off all communication that they dont want anything to with the other person anymore. It might have helped that I did tell her that was my way of dealing with people in the past. So when it happened to her I guess she must have understood even more so.

I agree to keep it very sanitised and lacking anything emotional, despite any inner feeling to try and express yourself either positively or negatively, if you are going to write it do it almost like a lawyer would/business like. Nothing that any word can get latched on to or argued with or seen as emotional weak points to possibly leverage against.

[WindofChange]

I agree with keeping emotionality out of it. I've not been good at that in the past, I guess because I wanted him to know I still cared but tried to explain that we just couldn't be together because the relationship had become toxic. I've said to him that a borderline and a codependent make for a stormy relationship--taking some of the blame on myself rather than casting it all on him. I have stressed we each need to work on our own issues and eventually find more stable relationships with someone else. While he hasn't said much in response to this directly, because I've said I still care, yes, it leaves him an opening and as I said before, he's mentioned getting together a few times, me staying the night, etc. I agree that the businesslike or lawyer like wording is a good idea, but I'll still say something to the effect that yes, I understand this is hard, but it's for the best. I've waited until the weekend because I'm afraid he could flip out and blow up my phone, and I don't want to be dealing with that either at work or in the evening when I have to get up early the next day. He'll surely accuse me of being involved with someone else, and I guess I'll just have to let those words go by instead of defending myself and keeping the conversation going. Thanks for the suggestions, they are sincerely appreciated.

[Harley Quinn]

Let us know how it goes for you, and remember it's OK to struggle with this. It may feel forced but if you're set on this being the right thing for you hold strong. We're here for you 

Love and light x