New Member: I'm having affairs and don't know how to handle my BPDh

[jsgirl360]

I want to start out by saying I've been reading all your posts for awhile and they have been most helpful. I'm sorry if I skip around in my post.

First off, I'm married to a man diagnosed with BPD. He's aware of his diagnosis but insists on not getting help or attempting to improve himself.  I know he suffers,  but I feel like this is his choice with the resources available.  Also his 2 adult sons are diagnosed with BPD. He will often be critical of their "borderline" behaviors but ignore his own.

For years I've dealt with verbal and emotional abuse, and also emotional absence and complete lack of affection. In fact, if I even speak about my problems (even those that don't involve him), he will go into fight or flight mode literally running through the house yelling and throwing things. That's at even the thought that he might have to provide me with emotional support. I've come to the conclusion that he is actually unable to be emotionally available to me, rather than just unwilling. So I'm trying my hardest to keep any concerns or problems I have to myself,  or at least save them for trusted friends.  This brings me to my next topic.

As a person, I do require affection and emotional connection. Though I went without it for years, I came to the point where I got tired of (unsuccessfully) begging him for it.  Since 2014, I've had online relationships with 3 different men. I know that having an affair is immoral,  even if my spouse has BPD. My human needs surpassed my moral compass. The first 2 men were from very far away, married, with no possible way for us to meet. The 3rd turned out to be local and very interested in me.  I'm not sure if his wife is BPD, but according to him, she is very self-centered and unappreciative of anything he does.  So we clicked very quickly.  It's been a breath of fresh air to be held, hug someone without being pushed away,  have a deep conversation,  no verbal abuse. He is concerned about my day-to-day life and has even researched BPD.

He has 2 grown daughters and comes from a culture where family is important.  So due to not wanting to disappoint his daughters, he doesn't plan to leave his wife. I have 2 young sons with my BPD, and due to not wanting to cause them trauma I am not actively leaving him. I do expect he'll leave me eventually.  I read somewhere that borderlines typically leave after around and we're quickly approaching that mark.

Back to husband... .I notice he does better when he's on a routine, going to work every day. I suppose it's because he's surrounded by people who normally don't see his BPD behavior and he's forced to act in a rational way. However,  if he takes any amount of days off work, he "lets it all hang out" at home and decompensates quickly. Tomorrow he starts 8 days off from work.

It gets worse. He is about to have knee surgery next month which could keep him out of work for several months. The medical issue will add to his dysregulation. And, I hate to sound selfish,  but him being home will make it difficult for me to see the man in my life who does give me emotional support and validation.

I guess I'm posting here because I don't know how I'm going to survive the upcoming days and months.

I apologize for the long post that's all over the place. I appreciate any advice, support, or even acknowledgement.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[formflier]

I'm certain you have found a place that can help you sort all this out.  We won't make decisions for you, but can help you focus your thinking and evaluations.

First off, I'm married to a man diagnosed with BPD. He's aware of his diagnosis but insists on not getting help or attempting to improve himself.  

I was particularly struck by this.

Does he say this to his providers?  Those that diagnosed him?

What do they say?  What do they recommend?

On the one hand, YOU can do a lot to improve the relationship by altering the way you "react" to things.  I say this to assure you that you are not powerless.

That being said, if an adult has a problem, acknowledges the problem, acknowledges it is a relationship problem that impacts others (you), yet chooses NOT to get professional help... .well... .that makes a big statement.

Do you hear that?  Loud and clear?  What do you hear?

Looking forward to getting to know you better!


FF

[formflier]

I do expect he'll leave me eventually.  I read somewhere that borderlines typically leave after around and we're quickly approaching that mark.
 

Can you expand on this belief? 

FF

[Cat Familiar]

How have you "dealt with the verbal and emotional abuse?"

We all need connection and to be loved and supported.    It's really hard to do that entirely for yourself.

Your husband does best with a routine and now you're looking ahead to having him at home for a protracted period of time while he recuperates from knee surgery. Without having time to see your friend who provides emotional support, what other resources do you have for recharging your own batteries?

Caregiver burnout is a big deal. I just went through that myself when my BPD husband had a hip replacement. Though he tried not to be too demanding, when people are hurting--it just comes naturally. It was exhausting. It's good you are planning for this. You will need time to yourself and supportive friends so you don't feel too overwhelmed.

[pearlsw]

Hi jacobsgirl360,

You might want to see my post over on Learning to see some of the pitfalls of the path you are on: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=325979.0

How you feel and what is happening is totally understandable, but I want to caution you as well.

Are you safe? What would he do if he found out? How do you deal with the inner conflicts this brings up for you?

with compassion, pearl.

[jsgirl360]

Thank you for the welcome FF.  I truly appreciate it.

A little bit of elaboration: he was diagnosed years ago while in marriage counseling with his first wife. He refused to engage further in therapy. I think a lot has to do with "shame" for having mental illness.  I mentioned his 2 adult sons also have BPD. The oldest also refuses treatment,  self-medicating instead (synthetic marijuana and opioids.) He can't keep a job for long, and my husband and his ex-wife end up paying his bills. His 2nd son, on the other hand, is proactive and vocal about getting treatment for his BPD.  He doesn't do great (much difficulty with jobs and relationships), but at least he is trying.  My husband is more ashamed of the 2nd son, because in his mind, allowing others to know he has BPD reflects badly on him... .he is afraid people will think badly of him because his son has BPD. So he wouldn't be caught dead being treated himself.

And yes, he is very aware of the negative effects his illness has on his family. His response is consistently "I don't care", which he states loud and clear.

I mentioned that I do believe he'll leave eventually.  Somehow I omitted a part in the original post. I once read an article from a psychiatrist that always stuck with me. It said romantic relationships with borderlines and non-borderlines will either last 6 months or 15 years. If the non-borderline has a strong personality and isn't codependent,  they will usually bail on the borderline within 6 months. If they are codependent (like I used to be, but I'm getting better), the relationship will be ended by the BPD once they realize the non-borderline can't "save" them from themselves. This will take approximately 15 years. I feel like husband is starting to realize there is nothing I can do to cure his disorder.

Surprisingly,  I work in the mental health field.  You would think I would have had more sense than to marry a borderline (I didn't know at the time.) The medical director of a psychiatric hospital actually told me that BPD is an untreatable illness. Therefore,  he said, BPD's are much sicker than patients with schizophrenia or bipolar.  I don't have high hopes for husband or his sons ever improving.

[Enabler]

I notice he does better when he's on a routine, going to work every day. I suppose it's because he's surrounded by people who normally don't see his BPD behavior and he's forced to act in a rational way. However,  if he takes any amount of days off work, he "lets it all hang out" at home and decompensates quickly. Tomorrow he starts 8 days off from work.

Hey Jacobsgirl,

Key word for you hear... .RUMINATION ... .and a couple of very useful charts for you to look at. slide 5... .emotional stimulus feeds into brain and pwBPD ruminate (generally negatively) about the stimulus... .then slide 34 shows you how it all fits together as a system.

https://www.borderlinepersonalitydisorder.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/EMOTIONAL-CASCADES.pdf

When your husband has more time to ruminate on the negative emotions he experiences he has more time to make the emotion BIGGER rather than smaller. I am a huge fan of rumination, I do it a lot, but I positively ruminate and I problem solve, I ruminate solutions. pwBPD have been shown to negatively ruminate.

I guess this is why many pwBPD find relief in exercise as the brain is designed such that we can complete relatively simple automatic tasks with one part of our brain when active BUT, complex thinking can only be done when we're still. By moving we shut down the higher thinking part of our brain. e.g. if I ask you what 2+2 is you'll be able to tell me the answer whist walking or even running, but if I asked you what 17x17 was you'd likely stop and stand, maybe shut your eyes and reach to your higher thinking brain.

So... .keep him occupied and avoid him having time to ruminate... .he naturally wants to think about how terrible he is and all the bad things he has done.

Hope that helps

Enabler

[jsgirl360]

Thank you for your reply, Enabler!

"Rumination" fits his behavior perfectly, I'm surprised I never thought of the idea myself. This also explains why he does better even if he's been spending time performing tasks for his grown sons, who also have BPD.  I will be checking out those slides shortly.

To stop him from ruminating will be the tough part, as it's what he naturally does.  I work overnights and sleep for part of the day. On days that he's off, he will either sit in the chair all day playing around on his iPad,  or spend the day lying in bed, dozing on and off (after sleeping the night before). Usually,  by the time I wake up, he is starving as he takes no initiative to go out and grab something to eat.  

Especially after his upcoming knee surgery,  keeping him occupied will be difficult.  He's usually oppositional to anything I suggest, especially something that involves him leaving the house. It's almost like he knows his behavior is intolerable and his leaving would be a respite... .which is why he doesn't like to go.

In a previous post I mentioned his sons who also has BPD (both in their 30's). Yesterday I found out his oldest son is going on permanent disability.  He won't be receiving enough to get by completely,  so my husband will still need to support him somewhat.  I was thinking maybe spending more time with this son could prevent him from ruminating,  but it's also a challenge to get him over to see him.

He also "splits" his son, as he does me. To make things more complicated,  his son doesn't care for me. (We are actually paying for his apartment so he doesn't have to stay in our house.) If at any point his son is "good", I have to be "bad" and vice versa. Example: I could be sitting in the chair, quietly reading a book. He walks in the door from a positive visit with his son. He will immediately start on a tirade of verbal abuse directed at me, since his son is "good" and therefore I am "bad".

He has started his days off from work (9 days in fact... .I was wrong about 8 days... .surgery is next month).  He's been dysregulated since the day before vacation started. I noticed he is becoming bolder with his verbal abuse in that he'll do it loudly even knowing I'm on the phone with a friend. When I'll gesture at the phone,  hinting they can hear him, he'll shout "i don't care!" I truly believe he doesn't care.

I thank you all for your replies and I'll respond more shortly.  I'm still getting used to this site and I'm curious as to how to be notified for new responses.

[Notgoneyet]

Surprisingly,  I work in the mental health field.  You would think I would have had more sense than to marry a borderline (I didn't know at the time.) The medical director of a psychiatric hospital actually told me that BPD is an untreatable illness. Therefore,  he said, BPD's are much sicker than patients with schizophrenia or bipolar.  I don't have high hopes for husband or his sons ever improving.

 
 Sorry your are having such a rough time, There is a lot of knowledge on these threads to help you through this time.
  I just finished up w " I hate you, don't leave me" Jerold Kreisman . Its a classic on the subject of BPD. Very informative.
   Be Well, NGY

[formflier]

Jacobsgirl360,


Can you expand a bit on what you do in the mental health field?

Do you have a T that you discuss this situation with in person?  If so, how long of a T relationship have you had?

If not currently working with a T... .have you ever?

I'm trying to wrap my head around this entire situation.

FF

[jsgirl360]

FormFlier,

Thank you again for your reply.

I work as a psychiatrist nurse in the mental health field. I have for 15 years now. As I mentioned earlier, never did I think I would marry a person with BPD. In the beginning of my career, I worked on an inpatient unit with borderline females who constantly self-injured and assaulted others.  I didn't realize there were other types of borderline behaviors that seem just as debilitating.

I do see a T. I have for about 2 years now. Unfortunately, we seem to have hit a wall. Husband refuses to attend therapy. He also refuses any sort of psychiatric medication, even to the point where when he learned his blood pressure medication was sometimes used "off the books" to treat behavior... .he stopped taking it to the detriment of his medical health.

Back to the T... .I've become tired of doing all the work on my marriage,  especially after I realized marriage is supposed to be a partnership between 2 people. My T has explained to me that in a relationship,  someone with a personality disorder is unable to give 100% or even 1%... .since they have to put so much energy into dealing with their own issues.  I really don't know where to go from here. As you can guess, my T discourages me from having affairs.

I am a follower of Jesus (I know... .I gave in to the flesh and I'm not perfect) and have considered finding a biblical based therapist. However, I don't even have much confidence in that either. I'd prayed for my marriage for years and became fatigued.  I don't even want my marriage to work anymore. Just staying for the kids and hoping his impulsiveness and "I don't care" attitude cause him to leave on his own.

[jsgirl360]

I want to thank everyone for your replies and support.

Thank you, NGY, for recommending "I Hate You, Don't Leave Me". I've heard of that book before. I read "Stop Walking on Eggshells' and it definitely spoke to my situation. 

Even the title of the book describes the relationship between me and H. Based on the way he treats me, he has no regard for me. However, he has expressed fear in the past that I'll leave. Not a good situation for either of us, since it also keeps him in a situation he really doesn't want to be in. I think I'll go look up the book on Amazon. 

[formflier]

Jacobsgirl360,


Thanks for giving us the information.  

Can you summarize the big things you have learned from your T... .and describe "the wall" you have hit in your marriage.  (full disclosure... .I suspect I am at a couple of "walls" in my own marriage)

One person can change the character of a relationship and "force" great improvement.  That being said, there is a limit to what one person can do.  

Another "truth" that is out there is the first 50%... .maybe in 75% of improvement that a person can do "by themselves is relatively easy.  The "law of diminishing returns" would say that the last 25%, 10% and 5% will be increasingly hard to reach and "may not be worth" the input of energy it would take to achieve that.

What books have you read... .which were impactful and which didn't connect?

I was impressed by your clear (nurse like) explanation of where you are and you understand you are at a "turning point"... .and a likely wondering what is going to happen next with your patient.  

I too am a Christian.  This BPD thing has made me question lots of things.

I've done quite a bit of work with "Christian counselors" and some were helpful... .some where disastrous.  If you limit the discussions to scripture... .you may be ok.  Tread carefully... .

I'm going to recommend a book... .

https://www.amazon.com/Love-Must-Be-Tough-Marriages/dp/141431745X

It is not a book about BPD... .so the lessons I would like you to get are very broad.  About "respect" in relationships... .and how "getting someone to stay" can be "counter-intuitive".  Again... .not a book for people with PDs, but since there is a Christian part of your story, I want to encourage you to understand that not all Christianity is passive and "forgiving"  (clarity... .forgiveness is always important, but many times Christians misunderstand what "actions" are forgiving... .and perhaps end up "enabling"

Also... .very judgmentally... .I suspect you are "helping" your hubby the wrong way with his health.  The book will help you evaluate your attitudes and the results you have gotten up to this point.  I'm betting you will change your approach to your husband health.

   

I can't imagine how difficult it is for a nurse to see someone they love not taking their meds properly... .hang in there.

I'll hush for now.  Please keep posting and learning.  My guess is that in a month, you will look at the "wall" differently.  

FF

[jsgirl360]

Hi FF... .thanks for your reply... I hope you're having a good week.

I've been married almost 12 years. For the first 7 years or so, I was (foolishly?) willing to put 100% into my marriage while he put in none. Actually I didn't realize he was putting in none until I discussed the marriage with my T.  I'm also being treated for anxiety by a psychiatrist experienced in BPD (never in my life did I have anxiety until having a borderline husband). Both my T and psychiatrist have told me it's more likely that my husband "can't" function as a partner in the marriage rather than "won't ". From what I've told them, they feel the BPD doesn't allow him to be a husband or father since his disorder makes him so self-absorbed. 

The wall I have hit... .well, some of that, I admit,  is my own fault. The realization that husband can't,  or refuses, to work on the marriage has made me tired of futilely carrying it all myself. As I mentioned, I've spent time with men who don't have BPD... .and that was like taking a taste of the forbidden fruit. It made me realize how easy and loving it is to have a relationship with 99% of people in the world. It has made me question if I want to put in all this effort to likely receive nothing in return, except emotional and verbal abuse.

The most recent book I read was "Stop Walking on Eggshells", which really spoke to my situation.  Also "The Sociopath Next Door" was very eye-opening and a lot of the behavior described was consistent with my husband (he does have some antisocial and narcissistic tendencies with the BPD).

One thing I wanted to add... .and I believe others in relationships with BPD's will agree... .  the self-help books out there that are not geared toward personality disorders are total garbage when dealing with someone with BPD. LOL!  As a Christian, I've read a lot of Focus on the Family, and while their ideas of improving relationships sound wonderful,  they just do not fly for someone with BPD.

I was reading an article recently... .I believe in Reader's Digest... .and it said that according to a family therapist, the word "Ouch" can stop an argument in its tracks. So I tried saying "Ouch" this morning when husband started dysregulating and insulting me. I'm not even sure it registered with him. He actually ended up walking out of the house and taking off. Not sure where he went, but I know it's going to be brutal when he comes back (he usually doesn't get so bad that he takes off, this is new ground).

I will be ordering the book you recommended on Amazon! It sounds like it may be helpful.  I'll admit,  I know I've been enabling him for years and surely not helping him.

Just out of curiosity FF... .if you don't mind telling me... .  what does the BPD make you question as a Christian?

An update on my original post... .less than 2 more days until husband goes back to work. (Then a week later he'll have extended time off for surgery.) He's dysregulating pretty badly right now, so he needs to get back to a routine.  As for me, I'm due to meet with my non-BPD love in a couple days. Problem is, this will probably be one of those times that I'm so messed up emotionally from my BPD husband, that I can't enjoy my friend and give him the attention he deserves for all he does for me.

[formflier]

The Bible seems to be written very clearly.

It doesn't say this book is only for fully developed... healthy adults.

Does it really apply to humans that look like adults, yet function as children (on an emotional and cognitive reasoning level).  What about humans that sometimes are "full" and sometimes are "whacky".

It's late... .this may not be making much sense.  I'll try to come back to this after some sleep and give a  more thoughtful reply.

FF

[jsgirl360]

Thanks for your reply FF. This is JacobsGirl360, by the way. Apparently my username was against the rules and so they changed ut.

As a Christian, I also have some questions regarding the Bible.

I've always been taught that the Bible is to be taken literally (I know some denominations are different). Yes, I know that means there are things I'm doing wrong.

So, in that case, it would also apply to the mentally ill. I know it teaches that God forgives. If person with the cognitive or emotional functioning of a child accepts Jesus as their Savior to their best understanding, they can be redeemed. I believe we have an understanding God who forgives them for their actions.

Something from the Bible that I always question is Ephesians 5:22 "Wives, submit to your own husbands as you do to the Lord".

Now, I would have no problem following this if I had a husband who was sane at least most of the time.  But what about those of us with BPD husbands. Allowing them to control all the decisions could lead to chaotic or even dangerous results.  Are we supposed to just go ahead, let them decide,  and hope for the best. What if BPD husband decides he should gamble with household money and not pay the bills.  What if he decided it wasn't important to feed the kids dinner?

We were actually reading this in Bible study last year and I came so close to questioning the leader. You know, "I'm asking for a friend". I doubt it would have gone over well.  

Update on my situation: Husband received paperwork from doctor's office today stating he could stay out of work until November. He hasn't even had his surgery yet. Still, he says he is staying out for every day the doctor will give him and maybe even applying for more time off. (He hates to work.) I don't know how I'm going to tolerate this.

[Woodchuck]

I want to start out by saying I've been reading all your posts for awhile and they have been most helpful. I'm sorry if I skip around in my post.

First off, I'm married to a man diagnosed with BPD. He's aware of his diagnosis but insists on not getting help or attempting to improve himself.  I know he suffers,  but I feel like this is his choice with the resources available.  Also his 2 adult sons are diagnosed with BPD. He will often be critical of their "borderline" behaviors but ignore his own.

For years I've dealt with verbal and emotional abuse, and also emotional absence and complete lack of affection. In fact, if I even speak about my problems (even those that don't involve him), he will go into fight or flight mode literally running through the house yelling and throwing things. That's at even the thought that he might have to provide me with emotional support. I've come to the conclusion that he is actually unable to be emotionally available to me, rather than just unwilling. So I'm trying my hardest to keep any concerns or problems I have to myself,  or at least save them for trusted friends.  This brings me to my next topic.

As a person, I do require affection and emotional connection. Though I went without it for years, I came to the point where I got tired of (unsuccessfully) begging him for it.  Since 2014, I've had online relationships with 3 different men. I know that having an affair is immoral,  even if my spouse has BPD. My human needs surpassed my moral compass. The first 2 men were from very far away, married, with no possible way for us to meet. The 3rd turned out to be local and very interested in me.  I'm not sure if his wife is BPD, but according to him, she is very self-centered and unappreciative of anything he does.  So we clicked very quickly.  It's been a breath of fresh air to be held, hug someone without being pushed away,  have a deep conversation,  no verbal abuse. He is concerned about my day-to-day life and has even researched BPD.

He has 2 grown daughters and comes from a culture where family is important.  So due to not wanting to disappoint his daughters, he doesn't plan to leave his wife. I have 2 young sons with my BPD, and due to not wanting to cause them trauma I am not actively leaving him. I do expect he'll leave me eventually.  I read somewhere that borderlines typically leave after around and we're quickly approaching that mark.

Back to husband... .I notice he does better when he's on a routine, going to work every day. I suppose it's because he's surrounded by people who normally don't see his BPD behavior and he's forced to act in a rational way. However,  if he takes any amount of days off work, he "lets it all hang out" at home and decompensates quickly. Tomorrow he starts 8 days off from work.

It gets worse. He is about to have knee surgery next month which could keep him out of work for several months. The medical issue will add to his dysregulation. And, I hate to sound selfish,  but him being home will make it difficult for me to see the man in my life who does give me emotional support and validation.

I guess I'm posting here because I don't know how I'm going to survive the upcoming days and months.

I apologize for the long post that's all over the place. I appreciate any advice, support, or even acknowledgement.

jsgirl360

I know exactly where you are coming from.  I had an affair myself several years ago.  It was more about the emotional connection than anything else.  We slept together once after meeting up to spend time together over a month or so.  After that night, I decided that I had to confess everything to my W.  I broke things off the following day and approached my W with what had been going on.  Of course that made things go from bad to worse.  We saw several counselors and therapists, none of which really helped.  A few years after that affair, I had called our internet company to change our service.  The customer service rep was very nice and was talking me about her daughter that she was trying to get custody.  Her daughter happened to be living with her ex in the same city I was living in or somewhere near there.  I told her that I would be happy to try to find a lawyer for her in the local area.  Long story short, that developed into what I would classify as an online affair.  We never met in person but we did communicate quite a bit online.  Again, she was meeting an emotional need that I had.  I am just stating that as a fact, not as justification.  My W ended up finding out about that as someone that knew this person that I was talking to looked up my W's info and let her know what was going on.  That was about 10 years ago.  I have not 'strayed' since then.  I have been very tempted to but every time I think about it, I think about the pain that it has caused everyone (my W, children as well as myself) and as the saying goes, the juice is just not worth the squeeze.  I have felt starved for years but trying to find something to eat to relieve the starvation as tempting as it may be, pales when I think about the pain that will be involved with that. 

I read your reply about the Bible verse about wives submitting.  This has always been a hot topic in any church that I have ever been part of.  I think the real problem is that a lot of people like to pull out verses to meet what they are trying to 'prove'.  The part about wives submitting to husbands is just part of the verse, as I am sure you know.  The other part of it is husbands being required to love their wives and give themselves up for them as Christ gave Himself up for the church.  That is a tall order.  In order for there to be true unity, each spouse has to focus on their part of that verse, at least that is how I see it.  The husband has to focus on loving his wife and putting her needs above his own (of course this can be taken too far).  If the husband does that, then it will be or at least should be relatively easy for the wife to 'submit' to her husband as she knows that he values her and her needs etc.  If the husband is not fulfilling his part or the wife is not fulfilling her part, there is going to be disharmony and as is a common theme here, all we can focus on is ourselves, as unfair as it may be or seem at times. 

Woodchuck

[formflier]

I love chatting... and debating the Bible.

Yes... the best way to approach the Bible is a "plain reading".  I'm a words guy... .I don't like "literal".  Now... perhaps if you can read Hebrew and Greek... then I'll go with that. 

I just don't think "literal" can apply with so much translation and different version.

So... .many times I'll pull up an page on internet where they show you the same passage from 10 or so different "versions" (NIV, KJV... etc etc).  Usually it's the same... .but every once in a while you get something different.

That's where you pray and research.

Submit is tough... but I think reason can be applied.  Would God ever ask you to sin?  Therefor... if your spouse is asking you to... submission is not required.  Let's also be frank here.  God doesn't control people like robots, many times people submission takes time and understanding.  Therefore... .I don't see see submission creating an employee like thing where you get ordered around.

However... .if there is a dispute regarding which religious thing your family should be involved with (staying very general here)... .someone has to decide.  It seems clear to me that someone is your husband.

Boy... there is so much we can get into here.


Any "plain reading" of the Bible shows that marriages are valued... .right?  Divorce does exist in the Bible.  Yes... there is a proper legalistic part to it... ."I'm divorcing my spouse because cooking is bad... "  (just doesn't cut it)

I can see other situations where lots of prayer and searching for wisdom is needed.

Yes... the Bible is a "rulebook"... but if you stop there, you are missing so much more.  What is God really "saying here".  What is the purpose of the rules?  God is describing what is "best" for his people.  Why on earth would we want to choose something other than God's best?

FF

[jsgirl360]

Thank you for your replies!

Woodchuck,

I too am having affair for the emotional connection above all things.  Of course, the physical affection is highly appreciated too. My husband isn't able to offer me either.

Reading that you confessed to your wife, shows that you really care for her and your relationship with her.  I pray that my husband never finds out. It would cause way too much drama and trauma for my children. In the beginning of my marriage,  I would never have believed you if you told me I was going to stray.  When things quickly started to get dysfunctional,  I pleaded to go to marriage counseling,  but he refused. Things got progressively worse.

It's at least refreshing that your wife was willing to attempt counseling.  However, you mention that none really helped. That brings me back to my doubting just how much can be done for BPD. Through my job and on my own, I've learned that many psychiatrists believe there's little hope for people with BPD. Basically all we can do is "house" them, I'm told.

As much as I probably should, I don't regret my affairs, online or real. Just because my husband can't tolerate emotional or physical intimacy,  does that mean I should go without it for the rest of my life? I feel like God's plan for marriage... .is for 2 people to be intimate with each other.  If that's not in the marriage, then what?

Regardless I understand my infidelity is a sin. Personally I believe that God did not plan for me to be lonely the remainder of my life.(Nor did he plan that for you or any of us Non's.) Possibly he has a plan for us to meet the right person down the road once we're in the right circumstances.  Not in a sinful way. Unfortunately,  as I've done in the past, im taking things into my own hands and possibly messing things up for myself.

I appreciate what you wrote about the Bible. I couldn't agree more! Yes, I would graciously submit to a husband who was willing to put my needs above his own. At this point, I would gladly submit to a husband who was willing to even consider my needs. Unfortunately,  with his illness, my husband is unable and unwilling to do this.  What you wrote is so true... .we have to consider both parts of that passage.


FF... .thank you for your reply!

I try to read the Bible every day. Not sure I'm so good at debating it. However I think debating is a good thing.  I agree that there are so many versions of the Bible. And they can make verses sound so different.  I also know that 2 different people sitting in a church service can glean completely different meanings from the pastor's message.

I agree that with regards to submission, God wouldn't ask us to sin.  It's coincidental that you mentioned it's clear a husband should decide which religious thing a family should be involved with... .

My husband was raised going to church (forced to by his mother). When we got married,  he believed in God, but was non-practicing.  I was raised in a family where God was the center of our lives.  I continue trying to be that way.

Around the time our first son turned one, my husband suddenly decided he was atheist.  (I know borderlines have a tendency to take on new identities... .maybe this is an example. ) He would go into a rage at the mention of going to church, and soon decided he wanted me to stop believing in God, and wanted our kids to be raised atheist.

Giving up something I believed my entire life was just impossible.  And I really did not desire to raise my kids in that way. From reading the scriptures and scouring Christian message boards, I understand I should have immediately stopped going to church... .and after seeing what an understanding,  obedient wife I was... .it would cause husband to come to God. I can't help but LOL just a little.  This might work wonders for a husband without BPD... .but a husband with BPD would not think these things at all.  Instead, it took lots of prayer, and God intervened.  Husband's schedule at work was changed to cause him to work every Sunday morning.  I now attend church with the kids without any trouble. Husband knows this, and while he is still an atheist (he doesn't want to be accountable to any person... .and especially not a god... . his words) ... he has quit trying to change our religious beliefs.  Both of his grown sons are non-believers,  so hopefully that will be enough for him.

I agree that the Bible describes what is best for us. All his commandments have a purpose.  He made us and he loves us, he knows what's best.  I know if I had followed the Bible, I might not be in the situation I am today. I'll save that thought for another time.

Always nice to hear from you.

[Notgoneyet]

Thank you for your repl

My husband was raised going to church (forced to by his mother). When we got married,  he believed in God, but was non-practicing.  I was raised in a family where God was the center of our lives.  I continue trying to be that way.

Around the time our first son turned one, my husband suddenly decided he was atheist.  (I know borderlines have a tendency to take on new identities... .maybe this is an example. ) He would go into a rage at the mention of going to church, and soon decided he wanted me to stop believing in God, and wanted our kids to be raised atheist.

Giving up something I believed my entire life was just impossible.  And I really did not desire to raise my kids in that way.

 jsgirl360,
    My uBPDw of 34 yrs did just about the same thing with her religious beliefs as well . Also had religion forced her way from a young age (Her Dad was a Church Elder) At least she waited till after my 2 boys were in HS before she took that turn. She even took them to sunday school all through grade school even though she had stopped going to Church herself by then. Very thankful for the fact that she allowed my boys to decide for themselves on the matter. 
    Then just out of the blue one day she claims she no longer believes in GOD! Happened about the same time her DWI's & law problems hit. Has mentioned in MC that if there was a God he wouldn't have let her get into some much trouble w the law  Kind of sounds like a 8-9 year old understanding of God to me. Funny thing is she still pretty much practices the 10 commandments to a tee. Very grateful for this as well!
     
   The book Boundaries (Dr.Henry Cloud &r.John Townsend) was an interesting read that ties a lot of scripture into common relationship problems . Still working on building better boundaries in mine but at least I found out just how bad I needed some work on this. 
    This BPD stuff gets messy & is real tuff to deal with so don't feel alone in it.
    Hope & Prayers, NGY 

[Woodchuck]

Thank you for your replies!

Woodchuck,

I too am having affair for the emotional connection above all things.  Of course, the physical affection is highly appreciated too. My husband isn't able to offer me either.

Reading that you confessed to your wife, shows that you really care for her and your relationship with her.  I pray that my husband never finds out. It would cause way too much drama and trauma for my children. In the beginning of my marriage,  I would never have believed you if you told me I was going to stray.  When things quickly started to get dysfunctional,  I pleaded to go to marriage counseling,  but he refused. Things got progressively worse.

It's at least refreshing that your wife was willing to attempt counseling.  However, you mention that none really helped. That brings me back to my doubting just how much can be done for BPD. Through my job and on my own, I've learned that many psychiatrists believe there's little hope for people with BPD. Basically all we can do is "house" them, I'm told.

As much as I probably should, I don't regret my affairs, online or real. Just because my husband can't tolerate emotional or physical intimacy,  does that mean I should go without it for the rest of my life? I feel like God's plan for marriage... .is for 2 people to be intimate with each other.  If that's not in the marriage, then what?

Regardless I understand my infidelity is a sin. Personally I believe that God did not plan for me to be lonely the remainder of my life.(Nor did he plan that for you or any of us Non's.) Possibly he has a plan for us to meet the right person down the road once we're in the right circumstances.  Not in a sinful way. Unfortunately,  as I've done in the past, im taking things into my own hands and possibly messing things up for myself.

I appreciate what you wrote about the Bible. I couldn't agree more! Yes, I would graciously submit to a husband who was willing to put my needs above his own. At this point, I would gladly submit to a husband who was willing to even consider my needs. Unfortunately,  with his illness, my husband is unable and unwilling to do this.  What you wrote is so true... .we have to consider both parts of that passage.


FF... .thank you for your reply!

I try to read the Bible every day. Not sure I'm so good at debating it. However I think debating is a good thing.  I agree that there are so many versions of the Bible. And they can make verses sound so different.  I also know that 2 different people sitting in a church service can glean completely different meanings from the pastor's message.

I agree that with regards to submission, God wouldn't ask us to sin.  It's coincidental that you mentioned it's clear a husband should decide which religious thing a family should be involved with... .

My husband was raised going to church (forced to by his mother). When we got married,  he believed in God, but was non-practicing.  I was raised in a family where God was the center of our lives.  I continue trying to be that way.

Around the time our first son turned one, my husband suddenly decided he was atheist.  (I know borderlines have a tendency to take on new identities... .maybe this is an example. ) He would go into a rage at the mention of going to church, and soon decided he wanted me to stop believing in God, and wanted our kids to be raised atheist.

Giving up something I believed my entire life was just impossible.  And I really did not desire to raise my kids in that way. From reading the scriptures and scouring Christian message boards, I understand I should have immediately stopped going to church... .and after seeing what an understanding,  obedient wife I was... .it would cause husband to come to God. I can't help but LOL just a little.  This might work wonders for a husband without BPD... .but a husband with BPD would not think these things at all.  Instead, it took lots of prayer, and God intervened.  Husband's schedule at work was changed to cause him to work every Sunday morning.  I now attend church with the kids without any trouble. Husband knows this, and while he is still an atheist (he doesn't want to be accountable to any person... .and especially not a god... . his words) ... he has quit trying to change our religious beliefs.  Both of his grown sons are non-believers,  so hopefully that will be enough for him.

I agree that the Bible describes what is best for us. All his commandments have a purpose.  He made us and he loves us, he knows what's best.  I know if I had followed the Bible, I might not be in the situation I am today. I'll save that thought for another time.

Always nice to hear from you.

jsgirl360-
I know the feeling of not having your emotional or physical needs met.  For the past several years, most of the time when my W and I are close, such as watching a movie together or something like that, I haven't felt a connection.  It has more felt like the energy is literally being sucked out of me.  It is not a good feeling.  This is not the case 100% of the time and I don't believe that it is something that she is even aware of or could change if she wanted to.  The same feeling is usually there when we have been intimate.  The end result for me is usually not a feeling of closeness but more of 'emptiness'. 
It has been good in a way that she has been open to counseling.  At the same time, I believe it has been detrimental in the sense that there has been no improvement.  I am not against going to another counselor but I am very weary of rehashing the last many years over and over and over.  I think that your idea of 'housing' someone with BPD is very accurate.  I have felt like I am little more than a paycheck for the last several years.  We have lived on a single income for the most part and when she works, her earnings go into her bank account.  I have felt like I am just there to put a roof over her head and provide what she needs so she can do what she wants, how she wants, when she wants.

You bring up some interesting ideas about marriage.  I do not believe our relationship is what God intended marriage to be or really even anything close to that.  It is difficult to try to figure out what the 'right' thing is to do.  I know the grass always seems greener on the other side and sometimes it actually is, it is just hard to determine when that is actually a reality.  It is great that you can look at your situation and accept it for what it is.  I don't think that we were meant to live our lives unhappy/unfulfilled and going back to the 'housing' idea, I don't know that it is possible to be truly happy or fulfilled when in a relationship with a pwBPD.  I believe it truly does take two people working together and recognizing each others strengths and weaknesses and supporting each other in order for a deep relationship to work.  The more I read and reflect on things, the more I am convinced that this kind of relationship is just not possible in the situation that I am in and I have to decide what I am willing to accept and what I am not willing to accept. 
I wish you the best as you move forward!

Woodchuck

[formflier]

  I do not believe our relationship is what God intended marriage to be or really even anything close to that. 

jsgirl360 and Woodchuck


bpdfamily is a "secular" board, yet we also allow religious discussions.  Generally we will title the thread "christian discussion about (xyz)" so that people understand the purpose and "scope" of that discussion.

Moderators don't allow people try to to talk others into a different belief.  Rather the  discussion is limited to competing views about the topic at hand, rather than allowing discussion about a "completely different view".

Your posts here are completely fine, but if a deeper discussion of "God's purpose for my marriage" is desired", I would suggest a separate thread. 

Good discussions... keep it up!  I would encourage you to think about "how you know" what God's will is.

jsgirl360

I've very interested in your husbands point of view about the marriage.  What has he said he wants out of it?  (please don't interpret... just repeat) 

Last:  I'm very glad things worked out to attend church without conflict... .     I don't believe in coincidence.

FF

[Woodchuck]

jsgirl360 and Woodchuck


bpdfamily is a "secular" board, yet we also allow religious discussions.  Generally we will title the thread "christian discussion about (xyz)" so that people understand the purpose and "scope" of that discussion.

Moderators don't allow people try to to talk others into a different belief.  Rather the  discussion is limited to competing views about the topic at hand, rather than allowing discussion about a "completely different view".

Your posts here are completely fine, but if a deeper discussion of "God's purpose for my marriage" is desired", I would suggest a separate thread. 

Good discussions... keep it up!  I would encourage you to think about "how you know" what God's will is.

jsgirl360

I've very interested in your husbands point of view about the marriage.  What has he said he wants out of it?  (please don't interpret... just repeat) 

Last:  I'm very glad things worked out to attend church without conflict... .     I don't believe in coincidence.

FF

FF-
Thank you for pointing that out.  I by no means want to or intend to impose my beliefs on anyone here or anywhere for that matter. 

Woodchuck

[formflier]

And you weren't... .my point was informational... .not critical.

What we try to avoid in a Christian discussion is someone suggesting that the Christian method is bunk, but what you really need to do is get a band of brothers together... and run around England banging coconuts together... pretending you are riding horses.

Full disclosure... I'm a conservative Baptist type... attempt to take a "plain reading" view of the Bible and I enjoy discussing/debating what is a very important part of my life.

For both of you guys... .Woodchuck and jsgirl360 I would encourage a "religious" only thread or two for the purpose of more fully exploring how religion plays out in your life and in the dynamics of your relationship.

Perhaps there are parts of that we can use to move things to more stability... perhaps not.

FF

[jsgirl360]

Thank you everyone for your replies.

Notgoneyet... .you are so right that this BPD stuff is tough to deal with! I'm thankful for finding this board.  It's really great that your wife allowed your children to choose their own beliefs.  Her understanding of God does sound concrete, which is typical of BPD black-white thinking.   I've met several people with BPD who adamantly don't believe in God, and also chastise those who do.  To me, it seems like the self-centeredness of the disorder doesn't allow them to put anything (God, for example) above themselves. 

Woodchuck... .
Have you ever heard of an energy vampire? I know it sounds far-fetched, but you can Google it. They are people that can literally suck the energy out of energy-sensitive people (aka empaths). Many BPD's are energy vampires.  My husband is one... .so I can relate to the drained feeling from being around him. I feel the difference when he leaves the house too... .I'll be completely energized. I even have trouble sleeping in the bed next to him, because the energy that surrounds him is so negative and turbulent.  Like tonight for example,  I couldn't take my nap before work because he came to lie down early. 

I can also relate to being a "paycheck ". I'm the main breadwinner of the family. He works, but he mostly keeps him check while I pay the bills and buy food. He'll spend his money gambling,  giving money to his grown sons (also BPD), and paying off his credit cards.

And trust me... .when you're with a pwBPD the grass most likely *is* greener on the other side. (Sorry couldbn't resist!)  Not always, but the majority of the time.  I've accepted that a BPD cannot and will not keep up their part of the vows and participate equally in a marriage partnership.  I feel like it means the BPD is going against God's plan for marriage... .even if they can't control their actions.  So then what to do? Is it really the BP's fault... .or the person who raised them? The generation before that?  I wish I had these answers. And I also wish you the best going forward.

FF... .
I didn't actually expect this post to turn religious. I have seen some of the "Christian discussion" threads. I'll start one for sure if I think we're going to get deeper into religion.  I wouldn't mind starting one about God's will as I just finished a Bible study on that topic.

As for my husband's point of view on the marriage,  that's a difficult one since we can't have any kind of deep discussion (he goes into fight or flight mode if we move beyond superficial, regardless of the topic.)  In the past, he's told me he's wanted me to "have his back".  The context of him saying that was at a time I didn't agree with something he was doing that I thought to be harmful, so therefore I'm a terrible wife.  He wouldn't go beyond that.  My thoughts are that he doesn't take marriage very seriously.  I'm his second marriage,  he's my first. He drops the "divorce" word at the drop of a hat, starting on our honeymoon.  There have been times when he has seriously asked for divorce when I didn't choose to eat at the breakfast restaurant he wanted.  So again, I don't think he takes marriage seriously or even has a concrete idea of what he wants.

About the church situation... .I also don't believe in coincidence!  As for me, I was raised a conservative Pentecostal (Assembly of God), and still am to this day.

[Woodchuck]

Thank you everyone for your replies.

Woodchuck... .
Have you ever heard of an energy vampire? I know it sounds far-fetched, but you can Google it. They are people that can literally suck the energy out of energy-sensitive people (aka empaths). Many BPD's are energy vampires.  My husband is one... .so I can relate to the drained feeling from being around him. I feel the difference when he leaves the house too... .I'll be completely energized. I even have trouble sleeping in the bed next to him, because the energy that surrounds him is so negative and turbulent.  Like tonight for example,  I couldn't take my nap before work because he came to lie down early. 

I can also relate to being a "paycheck ". I'm the main breadwinner of the family. He works, but he mostly keeps him check while I pay the bills and buy food. He'll spend his money gambling,  giving money to his grown sons (also BPD), and paying off his credit cards.

And trust me... .when you're with a pwBPD the grass most likely *is* greener on the other side. (Sorry couldbn't resist!)  Not always, but the majority of the time.  I've accepted that a BPD cannot and will not keep up their part of the vows and participate equally in a marriage partnership.  I feel like it means the BPD is going against God's plan for marriage... .even if they can't control their actions.  So then what to do? Is it really the BP's fault... .or the person who raised them? The generation before that?  I wish I had these answers. And I also wish you the best going forward.

jsgirl360-
Wow!  I had never heard the term 'energy vampire' before but after looking it up, it really hits the mark.  I feel the difference when I am not around my W.  Others notice a difference as well.  I have been told by several people that have seen me both with my W and on my own that I seem much more relaxed and happy when we are not together.  I have never been able to put my finger on the feeling but I think you hit the nail on the head. 
It is interesting that you bring up marriage vows.  I have attempted to discuss vows with her to little avail.  She wrote the vows for our wedding.  Yes, I did step outside of the marriage and had an affair and broke the vows that we took.  I also broke the vows in many other ways as has she.  Not to the extent of having an affair as I did (to the best of my knowledge) but the fact is that no one is perfect I doubt that there is a soul alive that has perfectly kept their vows.  The only focus here though is how I have failed.  I have the same questions as you and wish I had the answers as well.  I wish there was more black and white as to the best way to go about things. 

Woodchuck

[formflier]

About the church situation... .I also don't believe in coincidence!  As for me, I was raised a conservative Pentecostal (Assembly of God), and still am to this day.

Have you asked them for help in guiding your choices (or pointing you in right direction in the Bible) regarding marriage, affairs, family?

Regarding the "dropping divorce" thing.  That is more BPDish than any reflection of how he "truly" feels about marriage.  Perhaps some push/pull in there.   I would challenge you to consider times when he has said that.  Then... .see if he was calm... or worked up about something.

I bet you will find a pattern.

FF

[jsgirl360]

Woodchuck,

While I can't say I'm glad you're in the vicinity of an energy vampire, it's good to know I was able to share some relevant information with you. I've read on the concept of energy vampires for years, and they are very real (at least to sensitive people). The feeling you described of having the energy sucked out of you when you're with your wife just screamed "energy vampire". Do you ever notice that she seems highly energetic... .or "charged" after you have had the energy drained out of you? (Sometimes this happens,  sometimes it doesn't.)  I agree that she is most likely unaware of this happening and cannot consciously control it.  I too feel more at ease when I'm away from my husband.  Around him, I have to constantly "walk on eggshells", awaiting the next barrage of criticism or verbal abuse.

One more word I'm going to throw out there to Google: empath.  It would be interesting to see of any of the traits describe you. 

Regarding marriage vows, the same goes for my marriage... .we both broke them. For him, "love and cherish " went right out the window and never came back... .as a result I ended up looking outside the marriage to find that love. It makes me think of that verse we discussed earlier in the thread... .how a man should put his wife's needs above his own... .and the woman should submit to her husband.  It doesn't work so well if both partners in the marriage aren't doing their part. The same goes for vows, if one spouse refuses to hold up their vows, it becomes more challenging for the other spouse to do the same.

FF... .

I haven't directly asked people at church for help regarding my situation.  It's a large congregation,  and I'm a pretty active member.  Even though it's a church, I know people gossip and judge, so I try  to keep my marital issues private. I know... Galatians 6:2 "Carry each other's burdens... ."  I just don't feel comfortable sharing certain parts of my life.

It's no secret at church that my husband is a non-believer. He occasionally visits the church for dinners, etc. Church seems to be a "trigger" for him and there have been a few times he became triggered and started dropping F-bombs while at a church event. It was pretty humiliating to me.  Church people picked up pretty quickly that my marriage is troubled.  During the alter call on Sundays, while I'm praying, someone will often put their hands on me and begin praying about my marriage.  That's fine with me, but I feel like "that ship already sailed" and it just might not be God's will.

I have attended Bible studies, conferences,  workshops... .where I'm able to learn - without asking out loud - exactly what God says about marriage and affairs.  I know that despite the fact that my husband does not love me, nothing justifies my affair in God's eyes.

I agree that "dropping divorce" is a BPD behavior for sure. Each of the times he did it were during times of "stress"... or "perceived stress" (Not wanting the same breakfast restaurant as him? Yes, I understand that BPD's often have lower stress thresholds than nons.  But wow!)  So, no, he was never calm when "dropping divorce ".

This brings me back to his thoughts about marriage.  Looking back at the superficial discussions we've had, to him marriage has been about what I can do for him, or wondering why he's not happy. My needs have never been considered once. Such is the self-centeredness of BPD.

[Woodchuck]

Woodchuck,

While I can't say I'm glad you're in the vicinity of an energy vampire, it's good to know I was able to share some relevant information with you. I've read on the concept of energy vampires for years, and they are very real (at least to sensitive people). The feeling you described of having the energy sucked out of you when you're with your wife just screamed "energy vampire". Do you ever notice that she seems highly energetic... .or "charged" after you have had the energy drained out of you? (Sometimes this happens,  sometimes it doesn't.)  I agree that she is most likely unaware of this happening and cannot consciously control it.  I too feel more at ease when I'm away from my husband.  Around him, I have to constantly "walk on eggshells", awaiting the next barrage of criticism or verbal abuse.

One more word I'm going to throw out there to Google: empath.  It would be interesting to see of any of the traits describe you. 

Regarding marriage vows, the same goes for my marriage... .we both broke them. For him, "love and cherish " went right out the window and never came back... .as a result I ended up looking outside the marriage to find that love. It makes me think of that verse we discussed earlier in the thread... .how a man should put his wife's needs above his own... .and the woman should submit to her husband.  It doesn't work so well if both partners in the marriage aren't doing their part. The same goes for vows, if one spouse refuses to hold up their vows, it becomes more challenging for the other spouse to do the same.

jsgirl-
Good morning!  Thank you for the additional idea regarding empaths.  I looked it up and took a test (mostly just for 'fun' as I don't put a lot of stock in online tests)  Here are the results:

You are pretty intuitive and can usually tell when people are lying. You don't need to be near water which means your second chakra is probably doing well. You prefer to be in nature and this is another very good indicator of being empathic! You are indifferent to animals and plants. You would benefit from meditating in the forest. But you have a gift for influencing the moods, energies, atmospheres, and environments around you.

You are your own person, other people's energy doesn't effect you. You scored fairly poor on the "Mirroring Others Unconsciously" portion of the quiz. It looks like you have a tendency to mirror other people and their energy. Your score indicates that you would benefit from learning to run energy, ground yourself, and protect your aura.

You scored toward the middle on the "Has Protection Tools" section of the quiz. This means that sometimes other people's energy gets into your aura and body, but you mostly have things under control. Good Job. Wow, sounds like you need to slow down and give to yourself before you heal the world! You would benefit from an energy healing yourself!

The results do seem to have a some truth and kind of validate some things that I have learned here.  I have not noticed that she seems highly energetic or charged after I feel like the energy is drained out of me.  She just seems oblivious to it all. 

As far as vows go, you are correct, it is much more difficult to keep them when the other person seems to not care about keeping them.  What I have found interesting is that the term, 'broken marriage vows', almost always refers to having an affair.  If anyone actually reads their vows and understands them and does an honest self evaluation, no one keeps their vows perfectly.  For example, one line in our vows is, 'I will allow you to differ from me'.  I do not feel like this has ever been the case.  At the same time, I don't want to try to minimize or compare infidelity to other aspects of marriage vows.  Stepping out of the marriage in that way is extremely damaging, at least in my case.  I realize that all that I can do is look inward and work on me even when it is extremely difficult.  I have to allow her to be accountable for the choices that she makes, not try to hold her accountable. 

Woodchuck

[jsgirl360]

Woodchuck... .Good evening/night! Thank you for your reply.  

The reason I asked you to look up empaths, is that empaths are often the most vulnerable victims of energy vampires. You describe well the feeling of having energy sucked out. I'm about to start reading a book "odging Energy Vampires" - hopefully it will be helpful.  I'm especially energy sensitive.  When my husband leaves the house, I can actually feel the energy "lift". I used to have the same feeling with my father (who I now suspect was uBPD) - for some reason I couldn't rest until he walked out the door. Now I understand.  I am also sensitive to "good" energy.  When someone exudes a really positive, calming energy, I can enjoy just sitting by them and "basking" in their energy. I know this might sound really strange to someone who isn't energy sensitive.

As for marriage vows, breaking certain ones are more damaging than others. I know what I did could cause a lot of harm to my children if they found out. At the same time, I know I would have never gone outside marriage if my husband had loved and respected my feelings. Because he doesn't,  I can honestly say I don't regret breaking the vows. The man I'm having an affair with is the first man in my life who seems to love me and honestly care about me.  I don't want to part with that feeling.  

As for someone diagnosed with BPD being accountable for the choices they make... .that's a tough one. They seem to blame everyone except themselves. It may be some kind of defense mechanism.  My husband even has admitted he can't take responsibility for his actions.

I'll write more soon... .hope this is legible ... .I'm in 4 hours of sleep today