BPD mom controlling my relationship with my dad

[Depression = 72% of members]

Hey all, this is my first post.
I am a 29 year old single woman, and I have been out of my parents’ house for several years, just for some context.  I realized about 2 years ago that my mom is very likely suffering from BPD, though she would never ever admit it and obviously I’ve never brought it up with her.  My dad also realizes this (they are still married though he has his ways of distancing himself from her). 

Since I live pretty far from my parents I don’t see them very much, which is actually really helpful for coping with having a BPD mom, but also sad because my dad and I are really close.  Whenever I do see them, it’s usually both of them, and my dad and I agree we don’t enjoy our time as much when she’s  around because, well, you get it.  Controlling, manipulation, pessimism, etc... .  We aren’t as free to relax and just enjoy the time together.  But my mom doesn’t really let that happen.

So, in my counseling a few years back while I began to really process all this, my counselor told me that I am allowed to spend time alone with my dad.  That we have a right to hang out without her always there.  My dad and I planned a little 2 night camping trip for just us (something she doesn’t want to do anyway), and when we told her about it, she just refused to even talk about it.  She said “no you’re not.  You aren’t allowed to go.” And would not have a conversation about it. 

Two months later, same story.  We are supposed to be going camping tomorrow but she still refuses to talk about it.  I’m nervous about just going anyway, I wonder if she will do something crazy to spite us or something like that.  But I hate that she would be able to control the situation, which is exactly what she wants.  Any advice?

[Kitkat9]

Hey all, this is my first post.
I am a 29 year old single woman, and I have been out of my parents’ house for several years, just for some context.  I realized about 2 years ago that my mom is very likely suffering from BPD, though she would never ever admit it and obviously I’ve never brought it up with her.  My dad also realizes this (they are still married though he has his ways of distancing himself from her). 

Since I live pretty far from my parents I don’t see them very much, which is actually really helpful for coping with having a BPD mom, but also sad because my dad and I are really close.  Whenever I do see them, it’s usually both of them, and my dad and I agree we don’t enjoy our time as much when she’s  around because, well, you get it.  Controlling, manipulation, pessimism, etc... .  We aren’t as free to relax and just enjoy the time together.  But my mom doesn’t really let that happen.

So, in my counseling a few years back while I began to really process all this, my counselor told me that I am allowed to spend time alone with my dad.  That we have a right to hang out without her always there.  My dad and I planned a little 2 night camping trip for just us (something she doesn’t want to do anyway), and when we told her about it, she just refused to even talk about it.  She said “no you’re not.  You aren’t allowed to go.” And would not have a conversation about it. 

Two months later, same story.  We are supposed to be going camping tomorrow but she still refuses to talk about it.  I’m nervous about just going anyway, I wonder if she will do something crazy to spite us or something like that.  But I hate that she would be able to control the situation, which is exactly what she wants.  Any advice?

[Harri]

Hi Kitkat and welcome to the board.  You are definitely in the right place to ask questions as so many of us can relate to the type of behavior you have described here.   We get it.  Some of us are just starting to cope with the knowledge and understanding of how this impacts us and others are farther along but we all work together. 

I say go on the camping trip and try to put your mother out of your mind.  It is unfortunate that she is reacting the way she is but that is her choice.  If she ends up doing something out of spite that too is her choice and any consequences are hers to deal with.  She can only control the situation (if you don't go) if you let her. 

I would think that you will have some trouble keeping focused on being with your dad and camping with him while your mother is acting this way but the only thing you can do is remind yourself that you are not and never have been responsible for her feelings.  She is who she is.  Remind yourself that she does not even want to go camping!  Remember the sound of your T's voice saying you are allowed to spend time alone with your dad.  You may have a bit of an internal battle but that is okay.  Over time and with practice, the battle lessens.

I hope you are able to enjoy yourself with your dad.  It is important to spend time with him and it is your right to do so.

After your camping trip, come back and tell us how you did.  We have tools that you can use in the future to help you cope with these sorts of situations.  They take a bit of time to learn though.

have fun!

[Turkish]

If you're up for going is your dad up for it? Your mom is out of line forbidding two grown adults from spending time together, and she alone is responsible for her feelings.  What is your fear here? That she's going to take it out on your dad worse when you go back home?

[Kitkat9]

Thanks for the replies.  I think I could use whatever tools you have to deal with this stuff.  I struggle myself with anxiety and I wasn’t able to sleep well last night because I was anxious about how she might react.  Would she hurt herself?  Would she take my car and leave our family cabin where we are staying?  And I am afraid to leave my cat with her while we go.  My dad is willing to go, and I thought I was too but now I feel like the trip is already ruined by the fear and anxiety I would likely experience the whole time we were gone.  But not going just makes me resent her even more.

[Learning2Thrive]

  Kitkat9

Welcome! I’m so glad you’ve reached out to us. You definitely are not alone.

I’m sorry you’re experiencing so much anxiety, but I can understand it.  

It’s hard to know what your mother will do. Please know that whatever she chooses to do that is her responsibility, not yours. You should not live your life based on fear of what she may do. Have you read this article yet?

Emotional Blackmail: Fear, Obligation and Guilt (FOG)

I encourage you to go camping with your dad and let her be responsible for her own emotions and choices. I know it’s difficult, but it does get better with practice. Can you leave your cat with a reliable friend instead of your mom?

Sending you gentle hugs and smiles. You are worthy of this effort and you have a right to spend time with your dad without her.

  L2T

[Learning2Thrive]

I think I could use whatever tools you have to deal with this stuff.

I don’t want to overload you with information, but since you asked for tools, here are some excellent ones:

https://bpdfamily.com/content/triggering-and-mindfulness-and-wise-mind

https://bpdfamily.com/content/ending-conflict

https://bpdfamily.com/content/listen-with-empathy

https://bpdfamily.com/content/communication-skills-dont-be-invalidating

https://bpdfamily.com/content/setting-boundaries

For me, setting boundaries and giving myself time and space to step out of my mother’s FOG (Fear Obligation Guilt) trips was critical. It takes time and practice Kitkat9, but you are so worth the effort. 

  L2T

[Notwendy]

I understand your situation and it was the same for me. My father is now deceased. The difference between our fathers though is that mine did not stand up to her if she didn't want him to do something with me or for me. He did what she wanted him to do.

I think it is remarkable that your father is deciding to go on a trip with you. I see where you have a lot of resources to study already so I won't load you up with more. I think it would help you to understand the relationship dynamics in a family with a BPD member. You are also a component of the Karpman (Drama) triangle between you, your father, and your mother. It helps to be aware of the potential relationship issues involving this.

I don't know how your mother will react. I know that mine can be potentially destructive. When angry, she can trash the house. She would go for things that are important to us like my favorite toys ( growing up) and my father's important work papers. Chances are if my father went on a trip with me and my mother disapproved, he'd return home to his belongings trashed. She also has threatened to harm herself and has attempted to do so. I understand why he didn't stand up to her but it also enabled her behaviors. I commend you and your father for your bravery. I think it is the right thing to do to not give in to her because of fears, but also you need to protect what is important to you before you go.

Because I know what my mother is capable of, I take steps to protect things that are important to me, and for you that includes living things. When she has visited, I lock up important papers. If I left her with a cat, that cat would be gone. I don't mean to scare you, but I wouldn't leave my mother in charge of a pet. Even if she didn't harm the pet, the fear of that could ruin my trip. Please consider leaving your cat with a friend or kennel the cat at the vet, so you are secure the cat is safe while you are away.

[Kitkat9]

I appreciate all of the understanding and support a ton, thanks everyone.  We ended up going for just one night instead of the original 3 we had reserved.  I’m glad we did, we had a great time.  Of course coming back to my mom was a challenge- she didn’t harm anything or do anything crazy while we were gone, but she is now trying to make us feel guilty and is going through all of her various “reasonings” for her behavior.  This is just tough to deal with, no matter what.  Boundaries are so hard to set and stick to because of the “FOG” that always gets attached to them on her end.

[Harri]

Hi Kitkat.  Thanks for the update.  I was wondering how it went and it sounds like it went well for you and your dad.  That you mother is not happy really is not a surprise and unfortunately there is little you can do about this except to maintain boundaries in a respectful manner and let her be who she is.

Easy for me to say right?    The FOG can be so thick.  Keep maintaining your boundaries and telling yourself you are allowed to have a relationship with your dad without feeling guilty and there is nothing wrong with it.  After years of being responsible for our parents it is hard to detach emotionally, or differentiate, from them but it must be done to be a healthy adult.  To aid with that I would think of what belongs to me vs what was my mothers and I pictured a clear glass wall between us.  On her side were her emotions, actions, thoughts.  On my side I had the same thing.  The clear wall allows me to see her but helped me to separate.  One of the things I struggled the most with was a paralyzing fear that anything I said or did would upset or hurt her, and not just her but all of us.

I don't know if that will help.  I think you are doing a great job with handling her reaction to your little camping trip.  Keep it up 

[Notwendy]

I'm thrilled for you that your dad went along with it. Mine would not have. I'm also glad nothing was harmed.

Occasionally my father would have a business trip close to my college and we'd spend some time together just the two of us. Those were wonderful times, but they probably only happened because of the business trip. I think it is great that your father stood up for this trip with you.

Ignore the fallout. It's like a toddler temper tantrum.

After my father passed away, we took a family trip to a reunion of his side of the family. My mother didn't like them from the beginning and it was mutual. They only tolerated each other because of my father. When my mother found out she was not included at the reunion she pitched a fit. I wanted to say " but you don't like each other for decades- why would you even want to be there" but I knew better than to agitate her. She was outraged anyway even though she doesn't like them. She decided not to speak to me and told me not to call her. She then called me up and said she was not going to send my kids birthday or holiday presents anymore. After a while, she acted as if nothing happened. Then later asked what they wanted for their birthday presents.

We are trained to buckle at their moods. But they are in the moment when they react like this and then the moment is gone. It will go on for a while, and then, it won't.