Considering LC Due to Feelings of Guilt

[NY2CA]

Hi all,

This forum saved my life a few years back when I suddenly went NC with my uBPD mother. I never registered an account here as I was too embarrassed and depressed, but just reading the threads helped me so much back then and I'm really grateful for this site. I'm back now because while I feel much better emotionally, I need help again from people who understand what living with BPDs in your family is like.

I have been NC with my mother for nine years following an explosion from her the day I brought my first-born child home from the hospital. It was the most awful experience I had ever had with her, but also was the catalyst that allowed me to walk away from our toxic relationship after 33 years. During this time, she's maintained contact with her sisters but has continued to bad-mouth me and my husband, accusing us (and his mother) of witchcraft, of turning people against her, and of plotting to ruin her life by labeling her "crazy." When I hear these things I feel sad because I know what's causing her behavior. But she's refused to get treatment and so I've maintained my distance.

While these past few years have been very quiet, my mother is getting older and has several chronic health problems. She's not terminally ill, but her physical deterioration is now staring us all in the face. Lately I've been feeling extremely guilty because she does not know her grandchildren (I now have two), and have started wondering if I should reach out. But I am really anxious and angry at the idea. Because, who am I kidding? These feelings are tied to my ridiculous fantasies of having a loving mother/ grandmother who will embrace me and my family so we can live happily ever after.  However, my mother NEVER gave me the affection and acceptance I always craved, and instead accused me of being disloyal and rejecting her first when I left for college, then when I got married, bought a house, had my first child, etc. She is not fully capable of experiencing normal relationships with anyone, let alone me.

I've talked with her sisters about reaching out and they think I should do it because it would "make her so happy." But I'm really scared to go back to the way I used to feel when she was in my life, and I don't want my children to go through that, too. She still refuses to seek therapy and says that all of us are the ones in need of treatment.

I know it's not right to turn my back on my mother. So how do I overcome my fear to try and build another relationship with her, assuming she even wants it?

Thanks for listening... .

NY2CA

[Panda39]

Hi NY2CA,

Welcome back!  And not a Lurker anymore... .posting!  

I'm glad you decided to post the topic.  There is a lot to think about... .it's complicated.

So I have some questions... .

Have you done any Therapy around your relationship with your mom?  I ask because we can fall back into old patterns.

I see that your mom hasn't received Therapy, so has she done anything to improve her behaviors?  Because if not I think you can expect previous behavior to be an indicator of future behavior.
 
How are your "boundary" muscles?  Because I think you're going to need to come up with some and be rock solid with them. (particularly if you introduce your children)

If this was me I would take it one small step at a time.  First see how things go between the two of you before ever introducing your kids.  I know you would like a nice relationship with your kids and your mom but... .she has a history of being abusive.  In spite of the guilt you feel regarding your mom you must keep your kid's safety and well being in mind too.

Have you talked with your husband about this?  What are his feelings about it?

Is "guilt" a reason to restart this relationship?

I know it's not right to turn my back on my mother.

I don't think it's about being right or wrong... .it was what you had to do to protect yourself at the time.  But I also don't think it's a bad idea to revisit a relationship with your mom and see if some changes might not be in order.

Again, glad to have you back!  I'll be interested to see what feedback you receive from other members and more on your take on things.

Take Care,  
Panda39

[Learning2Thrive]

Hello NY2CA and welcome back!

Panda has asked some great questions and your answers will help us be able to provide you the most appropriate tools.

If this was me I would take it one small step at a time.  First see how things go between the two of you before ever introducing your kids.  I know you would like a nice relationship with your kids and your mom but... .she has a history of being abusive.  In spite of the guilt you feel regarding your mom you must keep your kid's safety and well being in mind too.

The part in bold. This. No matter what ANYONE in your family is encouraging you to do or how much you wish for a good relationship with your mother, your chilren’s safety needs to be your first concern. Even if you do not allow her direct contact with them, consider the affects they will feel if everything blows up and that leaves you severely depressed. 

I’m not saying you shouldn’t consider and make an attempt. I am saying you should exercise wisemind in your decision making process and set strong boundaries for your protection (and the safety of your children).

https://bpdfamily.com/content/triggering-and-mindfulness-and-wise-mind

https://bpdfamily.com/content/setting-boundaries

Please make sure you have boundaries set before you need them. They are for your protection (and your family’s), not to punish your mother/person with BPD.

  L2T

[NY2CA]

Thanks for the responses. I have gone to therapy (one-on-one and group CBT), and that has helped me tremendously. But honestly the courage to walk away from my uBPD mother came from my desire to protect my first child from her rage-filled, personal attacks against me and my husband. Both my kids are the reason I haven't gone back to a relationship with her-- because I don't want them to see me get severely depressed like I used to get, and I don't want her to turn on them or try to drive a wedge between us all.

My husband does not want me to pursue contact with her if it means inviting her back into our lives. She accused him of many horrible things and physically attacked him twice. But he also knows that I carry my guilt with me all the time and so wants me to find some peace. If I were to reinitiate contact with her, I would not want my husband anywhere near her.

I've tried to set boundaries, and the only boundary that she appears to respect is NC. I had a few email exchanges with her about three years ago (I guess that counts as contact, huh?) because she was offering to send me my baby pictures and birth certificate, but she immediately reverted to accusations of wrongdoing and I had to stop emailing with her. She also sent me a friend request on Facebook last year, and when I accepted, immediately posted a comment on my wall about how I was pretending to be so happy but I had abandoned my own mother. So, I deleted the comment and blocked her.

She absolutely refuses to seek therapy for BPD, so I don't expect things to ever really get better. Ironically, she's the one who, in a moment of clarity, first let me know about her diagnosis! My expectations for LC are quite low, honestly. I figure maybe I talk with her on the phone once every few months and send her pictures of the children, and maybe some day work up to a visit to the city where she lives for dinner at a local restaurant with my children.

But I am fearful of contact, and I'm surprised at the depth of my reaction. Even just posting about this today on this board has given me anxiety, and when I was driving my kids to camp today I started feeling like my heart was going to explode out of my chest. I'm crying while I write this.

Despite my personal anxiety, I can't stop feeling so incredibly guilty for abandoning my mother. I know this is what she's always been most fearful about in her life. She spent her early childhood and adolescence in a developing country where she wandered the streets as a child and experienced hunger and severe neglect. When her mother and family emigrated to the United States, they wanted to leave her behind because she was "trouble" and only brought her because her oldest sister finally buckled. She told me when I was growing up that she remembers being molested as a child. She's been through a lot in her life, and while she treated me horribly many times, she was also a loving mother at times. I think about my own children and the pain I would feel if they didn't want to talk with me anymore.

What I'm struggling with is this: If I'm self-aware, and have some coping skills I've gained through the years, don't I owe it to the human being who birthed me to at least maintain some contact?

NY2CA

[Learning2Thrive]

What I'm struggling with is this: If I'm self-aware, and have some coping skills I've gained through the years, don't I owe it to the human being who birthed me to at least maintain some contact?

You are an adult and free to choose whatever you wish. You asked a question and I do not wish any disrespect, but my answer is NO! You absolutely do not OWE her anything. She owes you respect as an adult human being even if she didn’t approve of your adult choice to marry, etc.

You’ve made several statements that indicate she is not safe for you or your children or your husband to be around. Why do you now feel you OWE her anything if she has zero respect for your boundaries or your marriage?

Have you read about FOG? Fear Obligation Guilt. It sounds like you may be overwhelmed by it. Please read this and see if it resonates:

https://bpdfamily.com/content/emotional-blackmail-fear-obligation-and-guilt-fog

That said, if you WANT to have a relationship with your mother, I strongly suggest developing strong boundaries and don’t put yourself or your kids in a situation where you are alone with her.

Please look at the tools offered... .just click the TOOLS link in the green bar at the top of the page.

Keep posting, join in on other threads. We’re all learning and healing; helping each other. The more you learn, the better you’ll be able to make better decisions for yourself and your family.

Be kind to yourself. You are worthy of love and respect.

  L2T

[Panda39]

don't I owe it to the human being who birthed me to at least maintain some contact?

Above is the hard kernal at the heart of things isn't it   Wanting to be a "good daughter", wanting to do the "right" thing, doing what you think you "should" do.  The thing is this is in conflict with what you know, what you have experienced, and what you have seen.  

But I am fearful of contact, and I'm surprised at the depth of my reaction. Even just posting about this today on this board has given me anxiety, and when I was driving my kids to camp today I started feeling like my heart was going to explode out of my chest. I'm crying while I write this.

 I think your body is telling you what you already know.  That your mom isn't safe.

Panda39

[NY2CA]

"You’ve made several statements that indicate she is not safe for you or your children or your husband to be around. Why do you now feel you OWE her anything if she has zero respect for your boundaries or your marriage?"

This has all come back again because I'm hearing from her sisters that she's been sick, has alienated everyone, and is growing old alone. They now don't want to talk with her either! I have a mental image in my head of this person living alone in her apartment with no one to talk with and no one to care if she lives or dies. I feel very, very responsible for that. When I'm honest with myself I admit that she's hurt me and I hate her for that, but my sense of responsibility over her general wellbeing definitely feels overwhelming.

But I hear what you're both saying and just read through the FOG link you shared, Learning2Thrive. I think I need a plan for dealing with her that doesn't push me so far backward I fall apart. My body is definitely telling me that this is scary and I have to tread carefully. :-(

[Learning2Thrive]

  NY2CA

I can feel the anxiety through your posts. If you really want to have contact with your mother, boundaries will be a must.
https://bpdfamily.com/content/setting-boundaries

I would recommend having someone with you when you visit. It would be best to visit her in a very public, neutral location where she is not in control.

What do you think of that?

  L2T

[wakingfirst]

Hi NY2CA.  I'm afraid I haven't got an answer to your dilemma.  But I felt I had to tell you how moved I am to hear you trying to do right by your mother despite how she has treated you.  You are a deeply compassionate person.  I hope you know that about yourself.  And I hope you are being compassionate to yourself.  I'll be thinking of you.

[Learning2Thrive]

... .You are a deeply compassionate person.  I hope you know that about yourself.  And I hope you are being compassionate to yourself.  I'll be thinking of you.

  NY2CA

This, what wakingfirst says above. Please be MOST compassionate with yourself. You are more worthy of your own kindness and compassion than anyone else on this planet.

  L2T

[NY2CA]

Thanks for the kind words. I'm trying to protect myself and not be hurt anymore by my mother, but I think some additional pain is inevitable if I want to find some peace. I can't run from her forever, and her sting is painful.

I don't know who I would bring with me to meet my mother. She lives in another state that is far from me, and I don't know anyone who lives near her. A family member or friend would have to pay for airfare to join us for a meeting, and I can't ask someone to do that for me. My husband shouldn't do it, so that just leaves me.

But I think an in-person meeting with her is probably some time in the future, anyway. I've thought a lot about this and don't think it would go well if I were to reach out to her out of the blue and suggest we meet in person right away. She's too unstable, and would likely be overwhelmed by our meeting. I don't want to send her spiraling as it won't go well for anyone... .

I think I need to start off small, perhaps an email with a couple of photos of the kids, then maybe a phone or video call sometime after that.

Have any of you tried LC after a long period of NC? If so, what steps did you take, and how did it go? I need some tactical advice to help me figure out how to move forward without setting off a nuclear explosion for me and her.

NY2CA

[Learning2Thrive]

This has all come back again because I'm hearing from her sisters that she's been sick, has alienated everyone, and is growing old alone. They now don't want to talk with her either!

Please try to take a breath, NY2CA. Be kind to yourself and let your emotions calm.  

What does it tell you that her sisters now don’t want to talk to her?

I have a mental image in my head of this person living alone in her apartment with no one to talk with and no one to care if she lives or dies. I feel very, very responsible for that. When I'm honest with myself I admit that she's hurt me and I hate her for that, but my sense of responsibility over her general wellbeing definitely feels overwhelming.

Please give yourself some time and space to allow the FOG (fear obligation guilt) feelings to clear. You are not responsible for your mother. She is responsible for her own wellbeing. Just as you are responsible for yours—and you need to be well to take care of yourself and your children and husband.

YOU don’t have to sacrifice yourself or be the one to provide care. Do you have financial means to assist her by hiring a part time care provider? Or, could you arrange for senior services assistance, etc.?

If you decide to begin LC, please make sure you have well defined boundaries and honor them for your own wellbeing. You are wise to want to take it slow.

My body is definitely telling me that this is scary and I have to tread carefully. :-(

Listen very carefully to your body. It’s speaking to you like this for a reason.

Keep posting. We are here for you to listen and support you whichever path you choose.

  L2T

[twinklefaery]

It seems to me that over the past couple of years you have stuck your toe into the water of contact – and it has gone poorly.  Emailing and what she did on Facebook sort of proves she’s not going to do well.

I am an only child who has tried very light contact.  I’ve been able to do this only mainly because my mom lives several states away.  I have set-in-stone boundaries, and she has never ever respected them.  I’m incapable of keeping them in place.  Huge kudos to those who maintain contact, AND successfully maintain boundaries. 

I mention this to you as a cautionary tale.  If your mom is aggressive (and it sounds like she is), keeping boundaries in place will be difficult.  I don’t want to be a Debbie Downer, just a cautionary tale. 

Perhaps you start with a letter.  Simple, short and sweet – that you are contemplating re-establishing a relationship, but if you both agree to proceed, the following boundaries need to be respected, and then list them.  Short and sweet list of what is most important to you.  See how she reacted to that.  Then, if you find that she CAN be in your life AND respect the simple boundaries you have set, you can dip your toe deeper into the pool. 

You already know your number one concern is protecting your kids from her dysfunction, and also protecting your own happiness and well-being.  You’re a better mom to your kids if you’re not being sucked back into the darkness. 

You truly don’t owe your mom a relationship – that’s a hard one to accept.  I’m an only child and have not successfully convinced my own self of this one, but cognitively, I KNOW this is true.  I’m working on it. 

[NY2CA]

Keep posting. We are here for you to listen and support you whichever path you choose.

Thank you... .This really means a lot.

[NY2CA]

It seems to me that over the past couple of years you have stuck your toe into the water of contact – and it has gone poorly.  Emailing and what she did on Facebook sort of proves she’s not going to do well.

I am an only child who has tried very light contact.  I’ve been able to do this only mainly because my mom lives several states away.  I have set-in-stone boundaries, and she has never ever respected them.  I’m incapable of keeping them in place.  Huge kudos to those who maintain contact, AND successfully maintain boundaries. 

I mention this to you as a cautionary tale.  If your mom is aggressive (and it sounds like she is), keeping boundaries in place will be difficult.  I don’t want to be a Debbie Downer, just a cautionary tale. 

Perhaps you start with a letter.  Simple, short and sweet – that you are contemplating re-establishing a relationship, but if you both agree to proceed, the following boundaries need to be respected, and then list them.  Short and sweet list of what is most important to you.  See how she reacted to that.  Then, if you find that she CAN be in your life AND respect the simple boundaries you have set, you can dip your toe deeper into the pool. 

You already know your number one concern is protecting your kids from her dysfunction, and also protecting your own happiness and well-being.  You’re a better mom to your kids if you’re not being sucked back into the darkness. 

You truly don’t owe your mom a relationship – that’s a hard one to accept.  I’m an only child and have not successfully convinced my own self of this one, but cognitively, I KNOW this is true.  I’m working on it. 

Thank you, twinklefaery. This is EXACTLY my situation-- I'm an only child and it was just me and my mother until I went "away" to college (it was a state university, and I would come home on the weekends). There is so much guilt when you carry the burden of their dysfunction day-in, day-out, and there is no buffer of another person. To be clear, I don't think it's any easier for people with another parent or siblings in the mix--in some ways, probably harder. But definitely a different power dynamic in play when it's just the two of you.

And I really appreciate your caution. You're not wrong.

My mother lives pretty far from me now, so that is why I wonder if LC can work in our situation. She's told my aunts that she wants nothing to do with me and that I turned my back on her, so it's quite possible that she will lash out at me again for even trying to contact her. I feel like the emails and FB friend request were her attempts to engage me in some conversation though, so maybe a letter or email is a good entry point.

Can I role play boundary setting with you guys? For example, a letter I could send her could include the following boundaries (not actual language I'd use):

1. Don't accuse my children or use them to make attacks. This is a non-starter for me, and will cause me to go NC again.

2. No name calling, threats or accusations. I don't want to get caught up in a "she said, she said" scenario in which I get demonized again and we both retreat in anger and pain. I just want to know she's okay (eating, getting to doctor's visits, etc.), and share photos and news about her grandchildren.

3. Don't accuse my husband or his family of witchcraft or drug abuse. None of it is true, and it gets me so angry that he and his family get dragged into her paranoid attacks.

Is this what you mean by boundary setting in a letter?

I wish I could also include something about her quoting religious texts to me or saying that God will forgive me or something, but that's probably going too far, right? While some BPDs abuse drugs or sex, her addiction is religion. She went through several faiths as I was growing up, and obsesses about it to the point that she cannot focus on anything else. She also brandishes it like a sword, and passive-aggressively uses her faith to make me feel extra guilty for not slavishly obeying her. It's a key part of her identity, though, so I would appreciate any advice or experience you have on this front, too.

NY2CA

[twinklefaery]

Agree it's hard to be an only - I think only children may be more prone to thinking we're crazy, because we are split black and then split white, depending on the moment.  It can spin your head around.  Also agree I don't think there is a "worse" (only kids versus those with siblings).  It's all a mind-bend. 

I have never gone NC with my mom, but she has with me.  Many, many, many times.  One of my boundaries is that I no longer chase after her.  It used to be when she went NC I would fret and beg her to come back around, apologize, worry, worry, worry that she was going to kill herself.  Now, I let her go.  I don't call, I don't email.  When she first goes underground, I email her and say to her - this is your choice.  I am not abandoning you, and you can contact me when you are ready.  I feel like in that little way this is a good boundary for me, and really, the only one I have been successful at. 

The FB thing - ugh.  So tricky.  It will send them so into a tailspin if you unfriend or block them, but they are incapable of being appropriate.  I have no answers for this one.  My mom is being incredibly inappropriate with FB right now. 

Re: boundary setting in a letter - yes, absolutely.  It's very tricky, because you don't want to trigger her, so finesse is good.  After my mom had a long period of NC, and reached back out to me, I sent an email with my boundaries.  One thing that causes huge problems with us is her buying things for us.  She is constantly sending presents, and then constantly getting angry that we aren't thankful enough.  One of my boundaries is no more gifts.  At first she did respect it, but it didn't take long until I got "you can't tell me what to do" gifts, followed by her getting extremely angry and hurtling insults about how we don't respect her enough, aren't thankful enough, don't reciprocate with good enough gifts back to her.  I am currently working very hard to reinstate this boundary.

I like the idea of your bouncing boundaries off the group   I agree with you that you should let her religious obsessions go.  They don't REALLY impact you like the other things, and as you know, we've got to pick our battles if we're going to keep these BPDs in our life. 

The way I handled my boundaries letter was with tons of sugar.  Here's an example (keeping in mind, this was only successful for a very short period of time - sigh): 

"We all appreciate your thoughtfulness and kindness so much, and it is so nice that you like to send nice things to your family.  I am going to ask you to stop sending gifts.  I have several reasons.  First, you are retired, and it worries me that you are spending too much money - we don't need gifts from you to know that you love is.  Second, gifts seem to be triggering to you.  By that I mean, you will send something, and inevitably, whatever reaction we have, or thank you that we provide to you doesn't seem to rise to your expectation, and you end up getting very hurt feelings and feeling disrespected.  To me it is more important that you and I get along.  Will you please respect this request and no longer send gifts to our family?"

My mom also gets very angry and sends the meanest emails and letters.  She drums up the most nasty things she can think of and fires them off.  Another boundary was that if she feels compelled to write a nasty letter, to please hold onto it for 3 days before sending it.  This one has been somewhat successful - she used to fire off nasty emails and letters frequently, and they come far less often. 

Keep conceptualizing, this group will really help you figure out a plan of action.  {{hug}}