Re: After a lull, very near to breaking point PART 3

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

This is a continuation of a previous thread:
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=327355.0

How is the climate at home now?
Well it's not relaxing.  Interactions between wife and me are minimal, just transactional. "Have you fed the fish?" sort of thing. She did however invite me to go and sit next to her on the sofa today. A sign of reconciliation.  But I made as if I was busy doing something else.  I have lost the desire to get close to someone who does that and then the next minute thinks I'm a cheater/thief/spy/pederast.  I just do whatever I can to avoid stepping on landmines around the house.  But some of the landmines are buried and I know I'll step on them even if I'm super careful.  Those famous eggshells.

How do I feel? Sad, angry, despondent and pessimistic.  :)epressed.

I'm eating relatively healthily, as always, but probably could cut back on portion size due to comfort eating.
I haven't been sleeping well. Waking up at 3am for an hour or so has happened quite a lot recently.

Self care? Well today I went for a big bike ride up the mountain I live on.  I loved the exertion, the fresh air and the beauty of the countryside.  I played some guitar and impressed myself with how good I'm getting.  Both those things got me in a flow state for a while, which is great.  I talked to my parents, got a lot of this stuff off my chest and that felt good.

I got a bit annoyed that my son seems to be acting up towards me in a really spoilt and entitled way.  He was ordering me around and getting angry with me for insisting on basic standards of behaviour.  More on that when I get onto the topic of boundaries.

I think I'm holding up remarkably well, considering.  

Boundaries.

I'm getting a bit tired of people saying I need to maintain firm boundaries.  Well, duh!  I know I need to do it. But how?
I get the principle behind boundaries.  I've read all the self help ever written on the subject.  Boundaries are your principles of what you are prepared to accept. But they need to be enforced by consequences if they are crossed.
The classic example you see in every book, article or piece of advice about boundary setting is this:
Principle: I will not accept someone using profanity when they argue with me.
Consequence: Remove yourself from the room.
Easy-peasy action that you can take to counter the breaking of your principle.  The idea being that the consequence of the crossing of the boundary is something that YOU do, not that the other person has to do.

But quite a few scenarios depend on the other person doing something or not doing something and I have zero control over that.

For example:
My principle: I don't want my son to be spoiled/infantilized.
My wife crosses the boundary by spoon-feeding him, letting him eat his meals in front of the TV, buying him a new toy nearly every day, letting him ignore her when she asks him to do things.
Now I can tell her not to do that. And I do every day. But when she just carries on doing it regardless? Stop! or I'll... .say Stop! again!

Another example:
My principle: A parent should not sleep in the same bed as their child.
"Stop! or I'll... .say Stop! again!"

As I said earlier, my son was really disrespectful, spoiled and rude to me today, telling me that I "must" do something for him in an angry and entitled manner.  When I said to him that, if he wants something then he needs to ask nicely and politely, he got even more angry and started to talk over the top of me and insisting on demanding things in the same rude way.  (I swear, in the last week, he's been showing some real BPD/NPD tendencies). I told him that because of the way he was talking to me, I wouldn't do what he was demanding and that I will not talk to him until he can speak nicely. So I got up and walked away.

But that's the old text book "walk away" boundary. It just won't work with the other scenarios I mentioned.
":)on't take our son to spend the night elsewhere unless you consult with me first".
"Just watch me"
"In that case I'll... .leave the room?"  

[Dragon72]

This is a continuation of a previous thread:
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=327355.0

How is the climate at home now?
Well it's not relaxing.  Interactions between wife and me are minimal, just transactional. "Have you fed the fish?" sort of thing. She did however invite me to go and sit next to her on the sofa today. A sign of reconciliation.  But I made as if I was busy doing something else.  I have lost the desire to get close to someone who does that and then the next minute thinks I'm a cheater/thief/spy/pederast.  I just do whatever I can to avoid stepping on landmines around the house.  But some of the landmines are buried and I know I'll step on them even if I'm super careful.  Those famous eggshells.

How do I feel? Sad, angry, despondent and pessimistic.  :)epressed.

I'm eating relatively healthily, as always, but probably could cut back on portion size due to comfort eating.
I haven't been sleeping well. Waking up at 3am for an hour or so has happened quite a lot recently.

Self care? Well today I went for a big bike ride up the mountain I live on.  I loved the exertion, the fresh air and the beauty of the countryside.  I played some guitar and impressed myself with how good I'm getting.  Both those things got me in a flow state for a while, which is great.  I talked to my parents, got a lot of this stuff off my chest and that felt good.

I got a bit annoyed that my son seems to be acting up towards me in a really spoilt and entitled way.  He was ordering me around and getting angry with me for insisting on basic standards of behaviour.  More on that when I get onto the topic of boundaries.

I think I'm holding up remarkably well, considering.  

Boundaries.

I'm getting a bit tired of people saying I need to maintain firm boundaries.  Well, duh!  I know I need to do it. But how?
I get the principle behind boundaries.  I've read all the self help ever written on the subject.  Boundaries are your principles of what you are prepared to accept. But they need to be enforced by consequences if they are crossed.
The classic example you see in every book, article or piece of advice about boundary setting is this:
Principle: I will not accept someone using profanity when they argue with me.
Consequence: Remove yourself from the room.
Easy-peasy action that you can take to counter the breaking of your principle.  The idea being that the consequence of the crossing of the boundary is something that YOU do, not that the other person has to do.

But quite a few scenarios depend on the other person doing something or not doing something and I have zero control over that.

For example:
My principle: I don't want my son to be spoiled/infantilized.
My wife crosses the boundary by spoon-feeding him, letting him eat his meals in front of the TV, buying him a new toy nearly every day, letting him ignore her when she asks him to do things.
Now I can tell her not to do that. And I do every day. But when she just carries on doing it regardless? Stop! or I'll... .say Stop! again!

Another example:
My principle: A parent should not sleep in the same bed as their child.
"Stop! or I'll... .say Stop! again!"

As I said earlier, my son was really disrespectful, spoiled and rude to me today, telling me that I "must" do something for him in an angry and entitled manner.  When I said to him that, if he wants something then he needs to ask nicely and politely, he got even more angry and started to talk over the top of me and insisting on demanding things in the same rude way.  (I swear, in the last week, he's been showing some real BPD/NPD tendencies). I told him that because of the way he was talking to me, I wouldn't do what he was demanding and that I will not talk to him until he can speak nicely. So I got up and walked away.

But that's the old text book "walk away" boundary. It just won't work with the other scenarios I mentioned.
":)on't take our son to spend the night elsewhere unless you consult with me first".
"Just watch me"
"In that case I'll... .leave the room?"  

[formflier]

I see the issue on boundaries.

You don't have a boundary for your son... .he is a separate person.


You want to "control" how your wife interacts with your son... .that's something outside your boundaries.

Said another way... you and your wife can have joint boundaries for your son... because you are parents and have legal rights to control him... therefore he is inside the joint boundaries.

Let's make this simpler and applicable.  You earn money... .you wife would like to control that money... because it's not hers.  She can want that all day long.

It's inside your boundary... so you get to make decisions on it.

Does that make more sense?

Have you read boundaries by Cloud?

FF

[formflier]

Also... .don't think about "enforcing boundaries".  (hang with me a minute)

Think about having a boundary... .it's just there.

Think about a castle wall.  If someone tries to bust through it... .the people in the castle don't "enforce" the wall.

The silly person on the outside just keeps banging into the wall... until they get tired.

The people inside... just keep on enjoying living in a secure world.

Does the analogy work?  I get it... some situations are more complicated.

But... back to money.

There is a "door" to your money.  A kind and appreciative wife brings a written proposal... .and... .she doesn't run into the castle wall... she walks in the front door... .because she "has the key".

Then... next day.  "I'm going to the store... give me money."

You... being inside the castle... .are vaguely aware of an unpleasant noise of someone banging into you wall.  However... nothing to do.  Wallet stays in pocket... .continue on with life.

FF

[Dragon72]

So that's it?
Refuse unless she asks nicely?

[formflier]

So that's it?
Refuse unless she asks nicely?

Umm... .yeah... .that's a very basic concept.

Let's expand on this.

Step 1... .if you need someone else's agreement or participation... .it's not a boundary.  (reference back to your son).  That's mutual agreement, negotiation... etc etc.

Step 2... once you have decided it is something 100% under your control... .now it's a boundary.

Step 3... .think about your values (in this instance money).  It's money you bring in, so... YOU get to decide the values that money "goes towards".

Other people may ask.  Other people may threaten.  Other people may call in legions of flying monkeys.  Other people may (you can continue to fill in). 

You may decide to "cave in" to what they are doing and let loose of your money.  Then, most likely you feel crappy... you feel used... you feel (fill in blank).  Yes... those other people have a part in this, but at the most base level, you feel crappy because YOU went against your values.

So... .enter boundaries going forward with a goal of "protecting" your values.

The "asking nicely" thing was big in my relationship.  She used to be a dictator sometimes and I would cave in and feel crappy.

Once I realized that I controlled my boundaries and my values... .things clarified.  She asks nicely and I "consider" her request (and many times grant it).  If she demands money... .I don't even "consider" it.

I go on with my life... inside my "castle walls" and she can rant... she can call in knights banging coconuts... .threatening to attack my castle... .  Why can she do this?  Because her mouth is "inside" her boundaries... .her mouth... she does what she wants with it.

Anyway... .over time, my wife has gotten much nicer about it.  Sometimes she is not and sometimes it appears that she just wants to pick a fight.  I get to decide if I fight or not.  She gets to decide if she fights or not.

And yes... sometimes she fights and I don't.  That is odd... but I've seen and heard it happen. 

Anyway... .if asking nicely is not part of your values... then skip it.

I know for a fact that tracking money... accounting for money and accusations of you stealing money is a big deal.

Therefore... if she brings you a report saying she has examined finances and is cool with the last month... .you will "consider" her requests for this month.  Or give her the allowance... .or give her your ATM card and pin... .

It's your "front door".  You get to decide what kind of "key" goes in there.

Your wife can declare you a controlling freak (she likely will) and she can decide not to use the key.

That's her business.

Your front door is your business.

She has access to funds and ability to generate income.  Let her sort that out.  You are not controlling of "her stuff"... she will not be "allowed" to control your stuff... because you have boundaries.

Thoughts?

FF

[Radcliff]

Dragon72, I'm impressed with the homework you've done on boundaries.  You get it!  You nailed so many of the things we usually respond with here!  But formflier is right, your pain around the behavior of your son and your wife is not always something that boundaries can touch.  As you said yourself, you can't control another person. 

Stick with formflier on the money thing.  That is something you can use boundaries on, and Lord knows, it'd be nice to snag you a "win" in one of the areas of your life and restore some control to you.

Your lawyer friend seems like a good egg.  He won me over when he said not to play the PD card in court.  That's a standard bit of advice from professionals experienced with the legal aspects of PDs.  The court often doesn't get it, and everyone thinks their spouse is crazy, so you just sound like a crank.  The winning strategy is to talk about behaviors, not diagnosis.  Have I recommended the book, Splitting, by Bill Eddy yet?  I highly recommend it.

One thing you can do is keep a journal of every time your wife does something inappropriate.  I'm thinking in particular of how she interferes with your parenting.  You gave us several great examples.  In a few months, you could accumulate hundreds, with dates.  That amount of evidence, accumulated extemporaniously, can be pretty convincing, especially if you come across as a reasonable dad who doesn't want to cut his wife out of the picture, but wants a significant amount of time with his son.

WW

[formflier]

 

  it'd be nice to snag you a "win" in one of the areas of your life and restore some control to you.

 

And restore some respect.

Right now... .how much respect does your wife have for you?  Said another way... how much does she "demonstrate" she has for you?

Wins in smaller areas may reestablish respect.  That will carry over to places where you have to "negotiate" or come to "mutual agreement".

Said another way... smaller "wins" will increase likelihood that you can influence "bigger" things.

FF

[Fian]

When it comes to taking the child away without your agreement, I recommend sitting down and discussing with your wife that you are concerned about how much time he is staying away from you lately, you are seeing disrespectful behaviors, and you do not find it acceptable that she makes plans to take him away for an evening without discussion and agreement in advance.  You can then say, how would you like it if I disappeared with our son for a couple of days?  My initial advice is to not threaten to do it, just toss it out there.  I defer to the board on whether actually going through with it is a good idea or not.

As for your son, if he is disrespectful to you, don't walk away.  Punish him.  It appears you are hesitant to do physical punishment right now for how your wife might use it against you, however there are other ways to punish.  As a parent, I am sure you know better than I.  I think you are also afraid about what happens if your son doesn't like you and likes your wife better.  My advice is to not worry about that.  Enforce your values, and let the chips fall where they may.  You are doing your son a disservice by not disciplining him.  From what I can tell, this is a common dynamic in divorced couples, and you aren't even there yet.  You have nothing to feel guilty about.

[Dragon72]

I'm scared this thread is going to run out of page allowance... .

The day before yesterday, I decided to put it to the test. I asked our son if he wanted to go for a spin on the cycle path.  He said yes.  I told my wife we were going. She said she would drive us there. OK, I said.

Just before getting in the car, she said, hold on a sec, I'll put on my sneakers, I'm coming with you."

I said, "Please, you have taken him off without inviting me on numerous occasions recently. I want some Daddy/son time for a change."
":)on't worry!" she said confusingly. Was she going to walk with us or not?
Half way to to cycle path, she said to our son, "Honey, I'll drop you and Daddy off at the start of the cycle path and meet you at the end."
Go figure.

Then... .
She announced yesterday morning that her sister invited her to accompany her into town to buy some blouses, and that she would be taking her son along. It would be an all-dayer.
I said, "Hey, I'm not happy that you are once again, with very short notice, taking him away from me.  Besides, it's going to be very boring for him going blouse shopping when I'm totally free, and willing, to do fun stuff with him while you're with your sister. Why don't you leave him with me?"
"No. He's coming with me," she replied.
"He's my son too, you know," I said.
"I know," she answered. "Can you give me some money for today, please, she asked.
" No," I said. "I give you money every payday for you to spend on things like this. I'm not giving you more."

And they went off together for the day.

This morning I heard my son get up and go downstairs.  Until about a week ago, every morning, without fail, the first thing he would do was burst into my room, jump on top of me and say "Good morning Daddy!" then hang out and chat. 

So I asked him this morning, "How come you don't wake me up any more?"
"Mummy doesn't let me," he said.

I put this to my wife, who flat out denies saying that.

Our son is fast becoming a battle ground and I don't like it one bit.

[formflier]

" No," I said. "I give you money every payday for you to spend on things like this. I'm not giving you more."
 

You did great here... .when is your next payday?  The next time she would normally get money from you?

I'm not ignoring the other stuff... .it seems pretty typical to me (not saying it is ok).

What you did is "atypical"... .solid work!   

I realize you have conflicted feelings about a lot of things.  Try to focus on money for a bit... .how do you feel about your boundaries... .your values?

FF

[Dragon72]

Today is payday.  She's due her allowance.

To be honest I'm WAY more concerned about the situation with my son being alienated from me more and more.

[formflier]

Today is payday.  She's due her allowance.

To be honest I'm WAY more concerned about the situation with my son being alienated from me more and more.

Right... .but you can't work on the "most concerning" thing... without building up respect first.

It just won't work.

She won't believe you actually care... and actually will do what you say.  This is going to take a while

DO NOT GIVE HER ANY MONEY.

If she asks... .let her know you are giving the money situation some thought, based on recent events.

You need to set up a T session for both of you to go to.  If she won't go... .you go.  We'll get you questions about best way to deal with this.

If there is a legitimate need... .milk, food... .you go buy it.

FF

[formflier]

  She's due her allowance.
 

Are you due yours? 

Why on earth are you worrying about what someone is "due"... when that person GIVES NO THOUGHT TO WHAT YOU ARE DUE?  None!

FF

[Dragon72]

I just lost it a bit.

I've got all this emotion and frustration running round my head and I just lost control of myself and I'm really annoyed now. I'll explain.

My wife and I just took our son to swimming lesson.  At the end after he was dressed we were getting ready to leave and my wife went to the bathroom, leaving our son alone with just me and the swimming teacher who asked me to help him pull the covers back over the pool. Just as we were done, my son started shouting at me for not letting him do it.

Just then my wife came out as he was saying what a bad man I am and how he's not talking to me. She gave me a dirty look.

When we got to the car, I told him to get in the child's seat. It's the law.  He refused. I told him he had 5 seconds to comply. After 2 he complied.

Then I was helping him sit strait so I could do the belts up properly and he starts shouting to his mom how I grabbed his butt. I just let go, shut his door and walked away.  I was going to go for a run from there anyway.  My wife drove alongside me as I walked away. "You walking home?" She asked. "Yes".

I'm sick of being the target of blame especially when I'm just doing the right thing.  I'm sick of the disrespect.  And I know that throwing a silent tantrum and not addressing my son's disrespect right away was the wrong thing to do, but now I'm a suspected child molester, I feel like I'm caught between a rock and a hard place.

[formflier]

Sorry that happened...    

Good job walking away. 

It's difficult when people claim untrue things about you, especially with this type of thing.

What did the L have to say about claims such as this?  How would they be dealt with?

Be kind to yourself... stay big picture.  These claims are "working" for your wife... .she is under your skin (understandably)... .

Find quiet time to reflect on this.

Please set up the joint T session... .quickly.  You go if she won't.

FF

[Dragon72]

I can see the point of me going solo to a therapist.

She definitely needs therapy. A lot of it. Like years of intense DBT. But she doesn't think she has a problem.

I just don't see the point of us going again to couple's therapy.  In those sessions, she just gets angry or denies all responsibility of problems in the marriage. And I feel under attack and constantly on the defensive.  I get that at home without having to shell out 1,000 pesos an hour for it.

You can't talk through problems with her. She has no concept of what mediation, negotiation, compromise or give-and-take mean.

[formflier]

 
I'm not suggesting that you go a bunch more together... .I'm thinking one or two more times.

I think it critical that you, she, and the T have in person conversations about the way forward.

Your wife may choose to walk out... .she may choose another path.

Same for you... .

Judgmentally... .I believe you will end up going solo and your wife will bounce in an out of T for a while.

Sorry to cross threads here... .but I am very interested in her family structure and decision making.  The "patriarch" thing from the other thread.

Backing up big picture:  I think you are in "the last third" or "the last quarter" of the journey to figure out a way forward.  Finish strong.  

Said another way... we know what your wife will "likely" pick... .and perhaps you can't force her to pick... .yet you should "save" her from the uncomfortableness of "having" to pick


FF

[Radcliff]

Your son saying that your wife won't let him come say good morning to you is concerning.  As is his claim that you grabbed his butt.  This doesn't seem like a diabolical alienation plan, just your wife and son being the humans they are.  You wife may feel her fears are legitimate and that it's reasonable to ask him not to jump on you in the morning.  Your son, as a rebellious young child, has realized that claims of grabbing private parts give him power.  This is not a good combination.  Absolutely go over this situation with your lawyer friend.

I know this is excruciatingly hard.  You must muster all your willpower to be unflappable and caring towards your son, and not let frustration or a facial expression tell him that false claims have power.  I'm sorry that BPD is making it so difficult to parent your son -- as a father, I know how important that is, how it's so upsetting to have fatherhood interfered with that it's hard to see straight sometimes.

WW

[Dragon72]

Yesterday afternoon my son continued to be rude to me, so I took his favorite toy away. He was upset. My wife tried to convince me to give it back but I stuck to my principle and didn't give it back until this morning when he came and said sorry.

Before he came and said sorry, he came and woke me up and said good morning like he used to too.

What is still really annoying me though is that whenever my son comes to me wherever I am in the house, my wife appears moments later having dropped whatever she was doing wherever she was.  It's like she doesn't trust me for one second to be alone anywhere with him.  I really want to challenge her on that, but I have not and it probably isn't a good idea.  I don't know how long I can go before I lose patience with the situation though.

[formflier]

Yesterday afternoon my son continued to be rude to me, so I took his favorite toy away. He was upset. My wife tried to convince me to give it back but I stuck to my principle and didn't give it back until this morning when he came and said sorry.

Solid work!  That's the way to do it. 

You didn't mention it either way... .but my hope is you spent some extra quality time with him... .be in his world.  Play with him.

He is a child... .in a childlike way he needs to understand that repentance (saying sorry)... .leads to healing a relationship.  It needs to be "over obvious".

Before he came and said sorry, he came and woke me up and said good morning like he used to too.\

Good... .do NOT mention the times he didn't.  Let him know how much you appreciate him coming in and spending time with you.  No talk about Mommy from you.  This you you and he time.  Build on that.

What is still really annoying me though is that whenever my son comes to me wherever I am in the house, my wife appears moments later having dropped whatever she was doing wherever she was.  It's like she doesn't trust me for one second to be alone anywhere with him. 

You know the answer here... .right?   Does your wife trust you to be alone with him or not?

 

I really want to challenge her on that, but I have not and it probably isn't a good idea.  I don't know how long I can go before I lose patience with the situation though.

This is EXACTLY my concern... .exactly the reason for both of you to go back to T ASAP... .and most likely that you continue T on your own, with a T that has "seen your wife in action".

I can say enough how valuable that will be to you... .that she "has seen your wife in action".  Many times I go to my P (phD psychologist) and I will describe a situation... .and she will say "I bet Mrs FF said XYZ"... .and... .you would think she had been a fly on the wall.  Many times almost word for word.

Regardless of outcome of your marriage... .we (you, me and all the rest of us here at bpdfamily) need to find a way to help you be "centered" in the midst of this storm.

Any thoughts on how we can do that... .or do that better?

Hang tough man... .solid parenting work.  Keep it up!

FF

[Dragon72]

I've just spent the last 3 days and 3 nights alone again, with my wife having taken our son to spend an afternoon with his cousins who live half a mile away. That afternoon, turned into one night, which turned into a further 2 nights, and then an extra half day. Because Jr. was having such fun with his cousins.  I'm expecting them back this afternoon. But would not be at all surprised if that gets pushed back too.

[Fian]

Talk to your lawyer friend.  If she is going to take the children away, then it sounds like you need visitation rights (unsupervised), etc.  And you are still married.

[formflier]

Have you ever taken him away on a trip?  An alone overnight with Dad?

At this point... it's likely not helpful... but at some point, this needs to start.

I'm hopeful that you made a change to the way you did money ... starting this last payday?  Fingers crossed?

FF

[Dragon72]

No, ff, I gave her her cut as usual. I just don't know how else to do it.

They came back this afternoon. It was great to see the little one again. That's 7 nights in the past three weeks where he has been away from me. My wife has only ever has 2 nights ever in his 4¾ years away from him.

My wife and I hardly spoke since they came back. As usual she went to bed with him at about 7.30. 

I just don't see the point of the marriage any more.  We're not close because talking about anything more contentious than what's for lunch is a huge trigger that ends in dysregulated rage and wild accusations. We don't spend any quality time together at all.  Never mind the loneliness of the past 3 days, I spend every evening alone and I sleep every night alone in a king size bed.  What is the point of me apart from as a help with the housework and a source of income.

I'm tempted to fix a meeting for us with the therapist and say to her in front of the T, "I don't know what you're getting out of the marriage because I'm getting nothing.  And it's high time we admitted it and go our separate ways".

[formflier]

No, ff, I gave her her cut as usual. I just don't know how else to do it.
 

Don't give it to her.  Invite her to submit her financial questions... issues in writing. 

Listen man... .try to think rationally for a minute.  You want you wife to change.  Do people change when they aren't motivated and their life is working for them?

Obviously... .your choice on how you do your money.  The saying "nothing changes until something changes"... .holds true because?

How long until your next payday?


FF

[Fian]

FF, I am not sure what you are proposing now.  He should cut her off financially until she starts doing what he wants?  To be honest, I think that is an abuse of his power as the breadwinner.  I also think it surrenders the moral high ground.

[braveSun]

It's a difficult, charged situation Dragon.

I for my part like FF's point on boundaries, but I'd err on the side of keeping my financial agreements and give her her monthly dues. Maybe keeping going on with the smaller boundaries for a while longer. Crumb tracks in the forest.

But I'd also want to go to a couples T session or two, as FF also suggests. I think it would help get some of the steam out in a safer way than if it just happens in an haphazard way.

I'd consider also that going to a T for yourself would be a wise choice. Because you are dealing with a spouse who is unstable emotionally. It's normal for you to need some form of sustained support just for your experience to be validated where you are.

I'm also thinking that for your son, the sustained high emotional charge between his two parents must be hard to handle. He certainly cannot differentiate at his young age. So I would not try to blame him for his rebellion. Looks to me like good parenting would start with parents having best emotional balance. And being persistent but not insistent. Kids pick up on vibes.

My two cents.

Brave

[formflier]

There are some posters on here that seem to believe (please clarify) that Dragon's wife is "owed" something.

And that something is so precious that under only the most limited circumstances it can't be changed... .or shouldn't be changed... .regardless of what Dragon's wife does or does not do.

Now... .everyone please pause.  If I have misstated a position... please clarify.


Here is a brief sketch of my position.

1.  ragon's wife has income independent of her husband.  She has made a choice to not take that income.  I believe she has made that choice because it would involve work on her part and she gets money from her ATM (marriage) without much effort whatsoever.

2.  In fact... .her ATM works even if she insults it... .demands money... .doesn't have an ATM card... .forgets her pin number.  It's the best ATM in the world... .no consequences... she wants money... the ATM produces.

3.  Even more entertainment.  She can go to people and claim the ATM actually takes money from her... .took her ATM card... .made her live in a loud house... .all of her circumstances are because of her ATM that is defective and cheating her... and also cheating her family.  Yet... the ATM keeps giving her money

What I am suggesting is that Dragon clarify how his wife uses the ATM card and pin number.  I'm also suggesting that he respect her choice not to use the card.

So... .Dragon's wife demands money.  ATM doesn't work.

Dragon's wife hands over a thoughtful written budget (likely for day or two, which is in context of the month) and the ATM works.

For clarity.  I am suggesting that if Dragon's wife chooses to NOT use the ATM per the "users manual"... .Dragon doesn't save her from her choice


Further clarity.  If that means there is no food in the house, Dragon should buy some himself and bring it home.  ragon should provide for his family.

Dragon should NOT further enable entitled financial behavior from his wife.  This boundary is 100% under Dragons control  The money passes through him to get to his wife.

Things like his son are not 100% under Dragons control.  Once respect is built on small boundaries, she may respect him on "joint" things.

I think this should be discussed in couples T with both present.  If Dragons wife choose not to go, then he should proceed.  Again... don't save her from her choices.

She will freak out... . But she freaks out already.  

FF

[Dragon72]

It's been mostly monosyllables between my wife and me for the last few days. As ever really. That's as much my fault as hers.  I just don't feel like talking to her, except for essential interaction.

Last night we all (3 of us) went to the annual fiesta in our nieghborhood complete with mariachi and fireworks and lots of delicious food.  It was great for our son, he loved it. And although wife and I didn't really talk to each other except for "I'll go get some cotton candy for Jr." sort of thing, it was a pleasant family outing.

Today is usually swim class day, where we take Jr. together for his swimming lesson at 11.30.  That's what I was expecting.
At about 8.45, after breakfast, I was looking in the fridge for inspiration and said to my wife, "I'll make lunch today. You OK with that?"
"Jr. has been invited to go to McDonald's for lunch today," she replied.
"Hold on a second. Who invited him? And when was he invited?" I asked.
"His cousins. I think it was yesterday they invited him. I don't know."
"And you're only just telling me NOW?"
"Sorry"

A few minutes later, my wife came up to me.
"We're heading off now," she said.
"But what about the swimming lesson? I thought you were going out after that?" I was shocked.
"No, I'll ask the swimming teacher to make up the lesson on another day. We'll be back in 3 days."
"3 days?  And you only tell me last minute?  This is not acceptable to me at all. He's my son too and you're not consulting me when you take him away from me.  You just present it as a fait accompli at last minute.  I am going to make an appointment with our therapist because we need to talk about this. Urgently.  I will let you know when the appointment is."

And they left.

[formflier]

And they left.

Is this how the ATM is supposed to work?  Only Dragon decides how it works.

So sorry... .

   

FF