There was nothing left to salvage. He totally self-destructed.

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

It's been a while since I have posted on the boards, and it's with great regret and sadness that it's on the "Detaching" board, and no longer on the "Bettering" board. I had to self-isolate for a while, despite being warned it wasn't healthy, because I really did not have any idea how to articulate what I was feeling, and it seemed too exhausting and draining to try.

My former partner (dBPDbf) went completely off the deep-end and spiraled so far down into madness that there was nothing left to save. In the end, I no longer recognized him. He was living in the basement in squalor, drinking to excess, having violent fits of delusional rage, and having no contact with his kids for nearly two months.

I moved out in mid-June after this period of dysregulation, horrendously cruel devaluation, and psychosis which became dangerous and violent, and left me with no other option. I'm sure now he sees my departure (which in the end he demanded) as the abandonment he always saw coming, and ironically, successfully manufactured on his own.

This is the hardest thing I have ever had to write in my life, because I really (naively) hoped that after a period of improvement late last year, and early this year that we'd end up in the "success stories" section. I guess it's true that hope really is the last thing to die.

We were together 2.5 years and lived together for two. He has two wonderful amazing sons (teenagers) whom I really bonded with and had a great relationship with. In the end, he abruptly cut me off from them completely, forced me out of our shared home, took complete financial advantage of me, and launched a massive, devastating distortion campaign against me. I never knew what hit me. I later found out the smear campaign had been in the making for nearly a year. He went "NC" with me after promising in a breakthrough moment of lucidity that if we lived separately for a while so he could "get some time and space to work on himself" he'd help me move and be cooperative throughout the process. He suggested we take some time to "let the fog lift" and try to rebuild anew, starting with a therapeutic separation, then friendship. He also agreed to split costs with me over things we invested in together for the house and property. I thought that sounded like a good healthy idea, and was on board with it.

He did none of it. He left me high and dry in a spartan apartment with what I could carry in a few bags, and even kept the gas money I had given him to take me to the shop to get a few things for my apartment. All of my belongings were still in that house and most of them still are. I managed through his only friend (who enables the hell out of him) to negotiate to be able to pick up some more things, (mostly clothing and easy to transport incidentals) but he still has so much of my stuff and absolutely will not cooperate with allowing me to get it back, or to reimburse me for anything he wants to keep.

Everything he said he'd do, he reneged on. After I moved out, he called me a few days later to scream profanities and threaten to "blow his brains out so I could never see him again". This being on the day he had told me he'd help me finish moving, just three days prior in a reasonable tone.

He did break his silence one time last week to meet with me in town to discuss "a peaceful resolution". That meeting turned into a 30 minute tirade of him telling me how I destroyed him, how he saw me as "all bad", a long list of perceived slights where he kept demanding to know "why did you do this to me?" He told me he could not remember a single positive or kind thing I had ever done. He said I was "his tormentor". It was a barrage of insults and repetitive accusations, and no resolution was discussed whatsoever. I didn't even get a chance to speak. At the end of the meeting he said he was still very stressed out, (?) but I could email him about trying to work something out "regarding a civil understanding". By the time I got home his friend had already texted me to say, "He never wants to speak to you again, I hope you know that was the last time."

WHAT. JUST. HAPPENED.

By the time we met in town, I had not seen him in six weeks. I barely recognized him due to a drastic change in his appearance and demeanor. Toward the end of our relationship, he had become unrecognizable in the sense that his eyes had gone cold and inhuman, he had a vacant stare, and he was completely dissociated from reality and acting in a paranoid/schizoid way.

He used to have beautiful long curly hair which could get a bit tangled due to how thick and curly it was. He used to love when I combed and braided it for him. He had cut it all off and had some sort of militant buzz-cut looking hair-cut. He had a really dark suntan and was wearing the type of clothes that a "jock" wears. He never once took his mirrored sunglasses off, but I could see that beneath the rage and accusations, he was crying. He used to be a long-haired guy who wore jeans and black t-shirts and loved metal and rock music. Now he looked like a marine drill sergeant. When I got home, I broke down sobbing. It was surreal. It was like the man I had loved and lived with had been a figment of my imagination. I have no idea who he really is/was - and I don't know if he does either.

The backstory and the aftermath is so complex and bizarre that I think I'd have to write for years to lay it all out. Essentially, I was totally blindsided by this. I have never had a high-conflict relationship in my life. No issues of drama, co-dependency, mental illness, etc. I had nothing in my toolbox to know what to do with this. I had a good clinical knowledge of BPD due to a medical background, but nothing could have prepared me for this. I also have a thicker skin than most, so his moody, erratic behavior didn't phase me much until I was way too far in the thick of it, and he had already begun the vicious devaluation. By then I also loved him very much, and saw him and his sons as my family.

During the course of our relationship, I did everything one is supposed to do in a committed relationship. I split the household costs (and then some) I helped with his kids, I worked full time, cared for the house and property, was hospitable to his family, was totally faithful to him, and very patient with his behavior which I found baffling but tried my best to understand. I truly loved him, and acted as such. We had some amazing times together and deep intellectual conversations. There were so many moments when I trusted in this, and although he was "difficult" - I was happy with him much of the time.

In the end I was painted as a monster, belittled and insulted, discarded, and his family and one best friend who knew me personally and always liked me (and KNOW his history) all turned against me. The one thing he always loved so much about me - my cooking - he refused in the end because he said he thought I would try to poison him. He would only eat cold food out of cans, or take-out. He had taken all my cutlery out of the kitchen and was sleeping in the basement with the knives, because he said he knew I was planning to kill him.

I'm devastated, confused and sad as hell. I dream about him almost every night. (Those times I manage to sleep.) Sometimes he turns into a warewolf type monster and attacks me, other times, he's happy and smiling, with the light back in his eyes and no signs of mental illness. Those dreams hurt worse than the nightmares. I know the monster side of him is a reality and I accept it. But the healthy, happy man capable of love and fulfillment? I think that may not exist. That is the saddest part of all.

I mourn the loss of the person I once loved, and saw the beauty and potential in if he had not come from an abusive and neglectful household. If he had been taught healthy attachments. If he had not been abandoned by his parents at age 1.5, and taken back at age 4 only to be abused more. He asked for none of this, and it breaks my heart. Mainly because as we all learn with pwBPD - no amount of love can help or reverse the damage. And when they finally snap, they fall into the mouth of madness in a surreal and horrific way that is more terrifying than any Stephen King movie. I still cannot believe some of the things he said and did in the end. And he has gone NC/Silent Treatment with me - as if I was the "bad guy" - but all I ever wanted was for him to be ok, and us to be at peace, no matter what the final outcome.

I live alone now, and have zero desire to ever try to love again. I don't even think I have the ability. I know I have C-PTSD, and I am in therapy, but I usually just sit catatonic in the therapist's office not knowing how to articulate the pain that is eating away it my insides like burning acid. I am 5'2" and have lost 25 pounds in a month and a half. My hair is falling out and I have panic attacks in the middle of the night that leave me sobbing in bed staring at the ceiling waiting to wake up from this nightmare and hoping he'll still be there next to me, wanting to "spoon". He isn't. It doesn't just feel like we broke up, it feels like he died. And part of me feels like I was the one who killed him, even though I loved him with all my heart until the very last second, and still do. I don't think I will ever recover from watching the person I loved literally deteriorate and self-destruct in front of my eyes while I watched helplessly, unable to do anything but leave. To leave him like that. Because he had become a danger to me, and there was nothing I could do anyway.

Due to the way our healthcare system is set up in this country, you go for treatment based on where you live. We go to therapy in the same clinic. Yesterday when I was arriving for my appointment he was leaving his. I passed him in the parking lot, and I can't be sure if he saw me or not. He looked like a robot on autopilot. I wouldn't even have recognized him if it weren't for his very distinct height and facial features.

I really don't know how the hell to recover from this. Is it even possible?

[BasementDweller]

It's been a while since I have posted on the boards, and it's with great regret and sadness that it's on the "Detaching" board, and no longer on the "Bettering" board. I had to self-isolate for a while, despite being warned it wasn't healthy, because I really did not have any idea how to articulate what I was feeling, and it seemed too exhausting and draining to try.

My former partner (dBPDbf) went completely off the deep-end and spiraled so far down into madness that there was nothing left to save. In the end, I no longer recognized him. He was living in the basement in squalor, drinking to excess, having violent fits of delusional rage, and having no contact with his kids for nearly two months.

I moved out in mid-June after this period of dysregulation, horrendously cruel devaluation, and psychosis which became dangerous and violent, and left me with no other option. I'm sure now he sees my departure (which in the end he demanded) as the abandonment he always saw coming, and ironically, successfully manufactured on his own.

This is the hardest thing I have ever had to write in my life, because I really (naively) hoped that after a period of improvement late last year, and early this year that we'd end up in the "success stories" section. I guess it's true that hope really is the last thing to die.

We were together 2.5 years and lived together for two. He has two wonderful amazing sons (teenagers) whom I really bonded with and had a great relationship with. In the end, he abruptly cut me off from them completely, forced me out of our shared home, took complete financial advantage of me, and launched a massive, devastating distortion campaign against me. I never knew what hit me. I later found out the smear campaign had been in the making for nearly a year. He went "NC" with me after promising in a breakthrough moment of lucidity that if we lived separately for a while so he could "get some time and space to work on himself" he'd help me move and be cooperative throughout the process. He suggested we take some time to "let the fog lift" and try to rebuild anew, starting with a therapeutic separation, then friendship. He also agreed to split costs with me over things we invested in together for the house and property. I thought that sounded like a good healthy idea, and was on board with it.

He did none of it. He left me high and dry in a spartan apartment with what I could carry in a few bags, and even kept the gas money I had given him to take me to the shop to get a few things for my apartment. All of my belongings were still in that house and most of them still are. I managed through his only friend (who enables the hell out of him) to negotiate to be able to pick up some more things, (mostly clothing and easy to transport incidentals) but he still has so much of my stuff and absolutely will not cooperate with allowing me to get it back, or to reimburse me for anything he wants to keep.

Everything he said he'd do, he reneged on. After I moved out, he called me a few days later to scream profanities and threaten to "blow his brains out so I could never see him again". This being on the day he had told me he'd help me finish moving, just three days prior in a reasonable tone.

He did break his silence one time last week to meet with me in town to discuss "a peaceful resolution". That meeting turned into a 30 minute tirade of him telling me how I destroyed him, how he saw me as "all bad", a long list of perceived slights where he kept demanding to know "why did you do this to me?" He told me he could not remember a single positive or kind thing I had ever done. He said I was "his tormentor". It was a barrage of insults and repetitive accusations, and no resolution was discussed whatsoever. I didn't even get a chance to speak. At the end of the meeting he said he was still very stressed out, (?) but I could email him about trying to work something out "regarding a civil understanding". By the time I got home his friend had already texted me to say, "He never wants to speak to you again, I hope you know that was the last time."

WHAT. JUST. HAPPENED.

By the time we met in town, I had not seen him in six weeks. I barely recognized him due to a drastic change in his appearance and demeanor. Toward the end of our relationship, he had become unrecognizable in the sense that his eyes had gone cold and inhuman, he had a vacant stare, and he was completely dissociated from reality and acting in a paranoid/schizoid way.

He used to have beautiful long curly hair which could get a bit tangled due to how thick and curly it was. He used to love when I combed and braided it for him. He had cut it all off and had some sort of militant buzz-cut looking hair-cut. He had a really dark suntan and was wearing the type of clothes that a "jock" wears. He never once took his mirrored sunglasses off, but I could see that beneath the rage and accusations, he was crying. He used to be a long-haired guy who wore jeans and black t-shirts and loved metal and rock music. Now he looked like a marine drill sergeant. When I got home, I broke down sobbing. It was surreal. It was like the man I had loved and lived with had been a figment of my imagination. I have no idea who he really is/was - and I don't know if he does either.

The backstory and the aftermath is so complex and bizarre that I think I'd have to write for years to lay it all out. Essentially, I was totally blindsided by this. I have never had a high-conflict relationship in my life. No issues of drama, co-dependency, mental illness, etc. I had nothing in my toolbox to know what to do with this. I had a good clinical knowledge of BPD due to a medical background, but nothing could have prepared me for this. I also have a thicker skin than most, so his moody, erratic behavior didn't phase me much until I was way too far in the thick of it, and he had already begun the vicious devaluation. By then I also loved him very much, and saw him and his sons as my family.

During the course of our relationship, I did everything one is supposed to do in a committed relationship. I split the household costs (and then some) I helped with his kids, I worked full time, cared for the house and property, was hospitable to his family, was totally faithful to him, and very patient with his behavior which I found baffling but tried my best to understand. I truly loved him, and acted as such. We had some amazing times together and deep intellectual conversations. There were so many moments when I trusted in this, and although he was "difficult" - I was happy with him much of the time.

In the end I was painted as a monster, belittled and insulted, discarded, and his family and one best friend who knew me personally and always liked me (and KNOW his history) all turned against me. The one thing he always loved so much about me - my cooking - he refused in the end because he said he thought I would try to poison him. He would only eat cold food out of cans, or take-out. He had taken all my cutlery out of the kitchen and was sleeping in the basement with the knives, because he said he knew I was planning to kill him.

I'm devastated, confused and sad as hell. I dream about him almost every night. (Those times I manage to sleep.) Sometimes he turns into a warewolf type monster and attacks me, other times, he's happy and smiling, with the light back in his eyes and no signs of mental illness. Those dreams hurt worse than the nightmares. I know the monster side of him is a reality and I accept it. But the healthy, happy man capable of love and fulfillment? I think that may not exist. That is the saddest part of all.

I mourn the loss of the person I once loved, and saw the beauty and potential in if he had not come from an abusive and neglectful household. If he had been taught healthy attachments. If he had not been abandoned by his parents at age 1.5, and taken back at age 4 only to be abused more. He asked for none of this, and it breaks my heart. Mainly because as we all learn with pwBPD - no amount of love can help or reverse the damage. And when they finally snap, they fall into the mouth of madness in a surreal and horrific way that is more terrifying than any Stephen King movie. I still cannot believe some of the things he said and did in the end. And he has gone NC/Silent Treatment with me - as if I was the "bad guy" - but all I ever wanted was for him to be ok, and us to be at peace, no matter what the final outcome.

I live alone now, and have zero desire to ever try to love again. I don't even think I have the ability. I know I have C-PTSD, and I am in therapy, but I usually just sit catatonic in the therapist's office not knowing how to articulate the pain that is eating away it my insides like burning acid. I am 5'2" and have lost 25 pounds in a month and a half. My hair is falling out and I have panic attacks in the middle of the night that leave me sobbing in bed staring at the ceiling waiting to wake up from this nightmare and hoping he'll still be there next to me, wanting to "spoon". He isn't. It doesn't just feel like we broke up, it feels like he died. And part of me feels like I was the one who killed him, even though I loved him with all my heart until the very last second, and still do. I don't think I will ever recover from watching the person I loved literally deteriorate and self-destruct in front of my eyes while I watched helplessly, unable to do anything but leave. To leave him like that. Because he had become a danger to me, and there was nothing I could do anyway.

Due to the way our healthcare system is set up in this country, you go for treatment based on where you live. We go to therapy in the same clinic. Yesterday when I was arriving for my appointment he was leaving his. I passed him in the parking lot, and I can't be sure if he saw me or not. He looked like a robot on autopilot. I wouldn't even have recognized him if it weren't for his very distinct height and facial features.

I really don't know how the hell to recover from this. Is it even possible?

[MeandThee29]

It will get better, but it's tough no matter how you look at it.

I've been separated for almost a year after several decades together, and I'm better about 80% of the time. I still have a bad day or two here-and-there. I had a lot of counselling and had to develop some new habits.

Don't worry about another relationship. You're fine for now and will be fine whatever you choose down the road.

[BasementDweller]

Thank you, meandthee. I have read so many posts about people who have been in a BPD relationship for decades, and I am stunned at how they manage that long. But I don't know how many of the partners with BPD went into full blown psychosis for extended periods either. I suppose if he had only had mood swings and such, then re-regulated, I might have been around a lot longer. But it got SO bad and only after 2.5 years. I think that's the hardest thing - witnessing that happening to him.

I'm glad to hear that you have been feeling better at least to the 80% mark. Besides therapy, what have you done to cope and recover?

[Lady Itone]

Aw, BasementDweller,

I'm so sorry, all that sounds terrifying and horrible. Please do your best not to internalize the awful things he said. None of it is true. It wasn't your fault, it was never your fault.

You're free now. There'll be no more insults, no more crazy person in your basement, no more walking on eggshells. Yes, you probably do have some PTSD, anyone would. But at the end of this is something better for you than that life, I know it.

[spacecadet]

Hi Basement Dweller, I'm so very sorry you're going through this. Your story is devastating.

I'm glad you are seeing a T. How helpful is he/she? If not very helpful, do you have the option of seeing someone else?

How do you usually heal and repair yourself, do you do it better alone or with others? What supportive people are in your life? Do you have friends who know your story so you can turn to them? You need more time to bond with others and process this tragedy and trauma, fwiw have you considered support group like 12 step... .? One hour a week does not cut it when you're in this much pain and confusion. Self care is the key for you now, any thing or any one who is nurturing in your life is crucial.

I had panic attacks late last year and went on a medication that did help. In addition to which I'm seeing the third T, the first two were not all that helpful and my current T is a specialist in trauma recovery. Making a big difference. Your sitting and staring is very understandable, I went through a lot of that and still do though less now.

How are you doing financially? I hope you're okay in your new apartment.

BP can indeed spiral into psychosis and dissociative disorder. Did your ex bf's sons or friend reveal anything in his history that points toward this happening in the past? I'm wondering if this unraveling has happened before in his life. It's heartbreaking that he was so well last year and doing so horribly now. It's impossible for us to really understand, and devastating to witness in someone we love. Your description of his eyes pierced my heart.

In answer to your question, yes there is recovery, for sure. You're strong and will figure it out one step at a time. Believe it or not, you're already in recovery although it doesn't feel like that. Being okay with your zombie self for now is just what you need.

Please come here any time with your questions, grief, confusion or whatever is going on at the moment. Many good souls are here who've gone through hell, everyone's is unique but we're here for you to listen. many

[Cromwell]

Hi

What I cant escape in the story and I hope it might give some solace; his living conditions and circumstances, all conducive to a huge amount of stress that can be expected on anyones shoulders at the moment. Its not as if the emotional side can be written from a baseline of him otherwise living in a more stable environment and treating you this painted-black way - his lifestyle seems chaotic, unstable and I think its fair to say will be having a profound impact on his mental wellbeing. Youve tried your best to support and it sounds like he reaches out for it, then just as quick, castigates you for it - I can relate to this, and left feeling that good deeds become punished rather than appreciated - a double whammy to your good intentions to help someone you love. It feels like a proverbial kick in the teeth and is entirely undeserved.

What I can say from my own experience - and it surprised me - I was stabilising my ex, enabling her, whilst I did she leaned on it and made no signs of building upon it - she became inert. When I would split from her, suddenly she would flounder and thats when I got the calls to come rescue "I have no electricity, I have no credit to phone you, ive lost my job" cue: the rescuer feeling obliged to solve these problems on her behalf. It further ingrained the mentality of being fearful to ever leave her - my story could easily have mimicked your own. Yet therein lay the problem - she had became accustomed to my stability providing at the expense of finding self-reliance. Its not that she lacked the ability, or beyond having a caretaker that she couldnt if forced to become resourceful enough - having a caretaker is the "go-to" first response; I feel that in your circumstances, your lack of fully solving all his problems right away is forcing him to accept he must find a different path, it doesnt look like anyone else is swooping in to do it instead - so its left to him and a bit of support from his enabling friend.

Here is the painful dilemma - before it got to this - you did everything reasonable to maintain stability - it didnt stop him from "dysregulating" and causing you enough misery to leave. Youve seen now both sides of it being unworkable, youve tried to help him since, but where does it lead? to improvement or just back to square one again? The cycle, or him suddenly becoming genuinely appreciative and fulfilling what you hoped for - a "success story" - I know how that feels, emotionally - but how does it feel rationally, realistically, with a person who has deep rooted issues that need serious work on.

All that worry about my ex when I made the last, decisive step to finally leave her for good - I have little idea of how she coped beyond her stalking me but the last I heard she had a job, still enabled by the usual family/'friends' you describe - in short, compared to the wreck I had become exerting all that energy for so long, she was on the surface faring better than I was. Your sympathy when you see his appearance and your concern - all indicative of a soft hearted person, youve been generous and shown kindness - id urge you to entirely focus on your own needs because it has taken its toll now too far. The words are heavy loaded, fatalistic almost - "deteroriated, self destructed, hes died", whilst im not privvy to every dynamic going on - how things feel or are at the moment are not what they might end up, although that can be very hard to distinguish when experiencing the rawness real-time of it.

Do you feel guilt at concentrating entirely on yourself, focusing on getting yourself to a better place at the moment?

There is a real story id like to share, it helped me years after Id heard it, I hope it provokes some thought;

A man jumped in to rescue his dog who had started to struggle in strong water, they both ended up needing rescued. A passer by jumps in to help as well as a police officer. The end result is they all lost their lives, but one; the dog made it back to the shore.

I got seriously ill in these noble attempts, it felt good for awhile to be a "hero" even though it could alternate towards being "zero" in a matter of hours. Recovery isnt just possible, it is proven, weve not been through the exact same but all I can share from my own is that I had to entirely focus on myself when I got to that state where it was my own wellbeing seriously at risk. "guilt, worry, anger, lost dreams" they all had to be shelved and postponed, they were luxuries of thought I couldnt afford, my own health became an emergency situation and my recovery only came when it became "serious" to address, not just something to think is a good idea to do.

When you speak of naively thinking things could get better - I did the same - what I had not conceived is the possibility of things getting "worse". The situation you are in now, your not in any position to help anyone but yourself, thats clear as day to me, the rescuer has a priority first to their own life, youve got so much going on and yet worrying about him, im suggesting that "shelve" or "delay" these feelings until you get back to firmer ground. I didnt 'abandon' my ex when I left and went complete No Contact - I recognised id reached a limitation where it had become too much and hope had to become directed inwards - is it so much of a 'choice?' as it is an automatic exercise in self-survival when it gets to a certain point. His 'autopilot' seems switched on, his reactions to you indicative of someone going through a very difficult time. Im sorry for you having to experience and witness it, its painful, concentrating on your own wellbeing however has to be the priority. Youve already done it - you left like I did "unable to do anything but leave" - your decision was forced.

Once I got better, my ex was on stable ground - the invitation to recycle was there, I briefly took it. The glimmer of hope/dream had resurfaced itself. I abandoned her that final time by choice - not under duress of circumstances. None of it has been easy, far from it, but recovery is possible, how you feel now you wont always feel but I cant see a way towards getting better as opposed to floundering, unless you concentrate on yourself getting better at the absence of all else at least for this situation you are faced in right now. selfishness was not a romantic or desirable quality, it didnt form part of my dreamy landscape - yet I had to learn it very quickly, embrace it if getting out of "hell" was my goal or if letting hell get the better of me whilst clinging to whimsical dreams of fighting against the current with whatever little strength I had left was the alternative.  

[BasementDweller]

You're free now. There'll be no more insults, no more crazy person in your basement, no more walking on eggshells. Yes, you probably do have some PTSD, anyone would. But at the end of this is something better for you than that life, I know it.

Thank you so much, LI. I know that you are right, and it's better to be away from all of that. I miss the future I hoped we would have, I miss the man I loved, but I see now that it was just an illusion. He's not healthy enough to participate in it. How are you doing? I know you have had a hell of a time of it yourself.  

Hi Basement Dweller, I'm so very sorry you're going through this. Your story is devastating.

I'm glad you are seeing a T. How helpful is he/she? If not very helpful, do you have the option of seeing someone else?

Hi, spacecadet - thank you for your response. I am seeing a new therapist, because I was just able to get into my local clinic where the visits are free after a certain co-payment. He's quite new to me but very compassionate and helpful so far. I don't know what resources are available for support groups since I live in a foreign country, and the native language isn't English. The clinicians and most of the citizens speak it, but local support groups will be held in the local language, and I'm not fluent enough to follow along.

How do you usually heal and repair yourself, do you do it better alone or with others? What supportive people are in your life? Do you have friends who know your story so you can turn to them?

I tend to need a lot of time alone, because my underlying nature is to be introverted and private, and very internalized. I have a couple of close friends that I meet with periodically that are very supportive, but they have their own busy lives, and the burden of hearing about BPD is pretty heavy. It can be overwhelming, so I often try to keep a lot of things to myself.

I had panic attacks late last year and went on a medication that did help. How are you doing financially? I hope you're okay in your new apartment.

I was given some benzos and prescription sleeping pills, but I really fear becoming dependent on them, and then having withdrawal symptoms when they run out. I am trying to use them as little as possible, even though I know that right now, I should be in a mental ward on a sedative drip.

Financially, I am ok, and still have a job and even though it costs more to rent my own place, I spend way less on food and other stuff now. Even during the darkest days, I managed to apply for a better and higher paying position, and that looks promising. I have a follow-up interview next week when the COO returns from holiday. Fingers crossed. I'm still in the running! (I have no idea how I managed that BTW.)

BP can indeed spiral into psychosis and dissociative disorder. Did your ex bf's sons or friend reveal anything in his history that points toward this happening in the past? I'm wondering if this unraveling has happened before in his life. It's heartbreaking that he was so well last year and doing so horribly now. It's impossible for us to really understand, and devastating to witness in someone we love. Your description of his eyes pierced my heart.

It was tragic, and while he has been in and out of therapy since his 20's, and was put on meds some time in the past (which he self-discontinued) to the best of my knowledge, this was a pretty bad episode. His family and friends are aware of his mental illness (while some of them seem to refuse to accept the BPD diagnosis, which has come from more than one clinician). His past was rough. Only one long term relationship in the past, with his sons' mother. It ended after 12 years, when she left him for another man while their kids were still under the age of 6. At one point in the relationship, she punched him in the face, though the details are foggy on that. She has told me in the past that he is very difficult, and "horrible in relationships". He had a few short term relationships (under 2 years) after that, but he never lived with any of them. They all ended badly, and he is not friends with any of them anymore. He has various tales of why they ended, but he was always either the victim, or they were "too negative". I was the 4th girlfriend in his 12 years of single-hood since his divorce, and the longest surviving. I think I got the worst of his wrath, too. I was the only other person he lived with besides his ex-wife. I did everything I could to be a good and supportive partner, but nothing ended up being good enough. The cards were really stacked against me.

In answer to your question, yes there is recovery, for sure. You're strong and will figure it out one step at a time. Believe it or not, you're already in recovery although it doesn't feel like that. Being okay with your zombie self for now is just what you need.

Please come here any time with your questions, grief, confusion or whatever is going on at the moment. Many good souls are here who've gone through hell, everyone's is unique but we're here for you to listen. many

Thank you so much. I have phases where I feel like talking and sharing, and other times when I just want to go into my shell. It's a bit hard because I live alone in a foreign country now, and so I can get quite isolated. I chose to live outside the city center because the crowds and hecticness of a major city make me really uncomfortable... .but it also really can add to the isolated feeling. It's been hard to adjust to living in a house with a family and having a partner to what feels like solitary confinement at times... .though at times, I can't muster up the energy to do anything but "lay low" - and be alone.

I wonder if anyone here has witnessed their partner go into such a horrible state, then emerge somewhat normally? I don't mean like... .salvaging the relationship, and having everything be perfect. I just mean being able to communicate civilly again, and be something akin to friends?

[BasementDweller]

Hi, cromwell -

Really wise words, thank you! I'm sorry you had to go through a similarly horrible situation with your ex-partner. :-( Yes, I do understand that he is going through a horrible time and is confused and distraught. When I was able to go back to the house about a month after I had left (he was on vacation in another country with his kids, and the friend accompanied me) I could see it was messy and disorganized. All the "evidence" of our relationship, like birthday cards, photos, the heart decorations from our Valentine's day flowers were still present as if I lived there. He had not removed any of it. But he'd left old food wrappers from a month ago on the kitchen table, and dirty dishes and pots on the stove - before leaving for vacation? His friend and I were both shocked, and thought it looked like he was living in some kind of suspended animation. When I lived there, everything was spotless and tidy. But we both kept the house. Now, he's let it go to pot. It broke my heart.

I know I wasn't able to "rescue" him. We never are. I hope that with prolonged therapy, and maybe medication if his doctors see fit, he can regain some semblance of normalcy. It was so strange that in the end, he was convinced that I was the anti-christ, despite me having been a loving partner, and most importantly, treating his kids with kindness and love. It was like he didn't even remember who I was.

Yet, still. To me it also looks like he is doing better than I am. Or at least it feels that way to me. He might be a mess, his house might be a mess, but he is the one that chooses not to talk to me, and that makes me feel like I am a horrible person. He seems ok with treating me as if I never existed. I would never be able to do that to him. So therefore, it seems like he is glad I'm gone, even though this horrible situation is the last thing I would have wanted. There are often times where I feel like if he treated me that way in the end, so easily, then perhaps I did deserve it. I suppose that isn't rational, but the gaslighting really hits hard.

[Cromwell]

It can become a merry go round though basement, and that was the hardest part for me. Im not sure how much you have observed cyclical incongruent behaviour but for myself it became a defining element of the relationship.

To the extent that if I had written a post like yours, I could get a phone call the next morning asking me to come over for breakfast and id rejoin the woman that I had fallen in love with - as if nothing between that time had ever taken place. Regardless if I had not had a minute of sleep.

Thats what made it a torment, see my signature - I became accustomed to waiting for the next good moment - it always came, it would still be there today. Its a cycle and how you feel now and how the situation is, if its anything like mine, could polarise at any given moment. I often wonder when some posters disappear from this site wether they have moved on or if in the midst of the heartache they had came here, they got that phone call I used to get and they are back "living the dream". Only to resurface - 1, 2, 6 months in future again having been converted from Hero to Zero once more.

You are right that it is trading on "hope", when thats gone - in my case - so did her. My personality viewed it as cowardly, self serving, in time I acknowledge how much strength, rational, reality-check and prioritising my own needs in life; I actually want a peaceful life as a baseline - I had almost forgotten what it even meant - when you get adapted and accustomed through enduring seemingly endless drama that then characterises the relationship as 'normal' way of living.

[MeandThee29]

I'm glad to hear that you have been feeling better at least to the 80% mark. Besides therapy, what have you done to cope and recover?

I really watch my health habits, what I eat, going to bed on time, and getting regular exercise. A daily walk in the morning sets the tone for my day.

I was very blessed to have a lot of friends who loved me even before they knew anything, and they've been there through-and-through. It helps me a lot when a friend looks me in the eyes and says, "You'll get through this. You're strong, and we're here for you 24/7." I don't want to overwhelm them, but I know if I'm having a bad day and text them, they will call or text something encouraging back.

I also found that the more I focused on my responses, the better I did. Rerunning over everything that happened doesn't change anything. Mindfulness (living "now" and gratefulness have helped too.

[MeandThee29]

Thats what made it a torment, see my signature - I became accustomed to waiting for the next good moment - it always came, it would still be there today. Its a cycle and how you feel now and how the situation is, if its anything like mine, could polarise at any given moment. I often wonder when some posters disappear from this site wether they have moved on or if in the midst of the heartache they had came here, they got that phone call I used to get and they are back "living the dream". Only to resurface - 1, 2, 6 months in future again having been converted from Hero to Zero once more.

You are right that it is trading on "hope", when thats gone - in my case - so did her. My personality viewed it as cowardly, self serving, in time I acknowledge how much strength, rational, reality-check and prioritising my own needs in life; I actually want a peaceful life as a baseline - I had almost forgotten what it even meant - when you get adapted and accustomed through enduring seemingly endless drama that then characterises the relationship as 'normal' way of living.

Very well said. I'm still weak. A recent email promising kindness if we met one-on-one to work out reconciliation pulled on my heartstrings.

But I went back and read my journal and was struck by how he rewrote the history of our family and how many times he did and said deeply hurtful things.  There was a lot of "scorched earth" policy. There was also a lot of talionic thinking (eye-for-an-eye). No hint that he has had counselling or that there would be any kind of accountability.  He has memory or dissociation issues and will deny what he said later. Nope. I refused to meet with him and made sure that I let my counsellors know,  and I remain accountable to them not to allow myself to be drawn in and discarded again.

If reconciliation happens, it has to be with counselling and accountability. He's not the type to ever agree to that, but I have to protect myself.

[MeandThee29]

I wonder if anyone here has witnessed their partner go into such a horrible state, then emerge somewhat normally? I don't mean like... .salvaging the relationship, and having everything be perfect. I just mean being able to communicate civilly again, and be something akin to friends?

I think that's extremely rare here. A therapist who has been seeing us for over a decade said it would be a miracle. She's been telling me for several years to let it go and save myself.

Unfortunately, his family is enabling. They don't know much of what went on, and they have bought into his line that I'm mentally ill and that he is a victim. I did have a difficult childhood and failed in many ways, but I've at least been diligent about seeking help and looking for accountability.

[BasementDweller]

Thanks for all your insight cromwell and meandthee.

Crom, you're right. It was/is exactly like that with me too. He could put me through hell, but if he contacted me right now and needed me to be there for him, I would. Not because I'm stupid, or "a sucker" but because I have always been a genuinely kind person who has compassion for anyone who is struggling. The most heartbreaking moment during all of this was right before I left, I think the day before, he had been in a complete raging psychosis for nearly two months. Everything he said was either cruel or delusional, or both. There was ONE tiny moment when he broke down sobbing and said he really needed a hug and was in so much pain, and asked me to hold him. He was heaving with sobs and laying in my arms, crying that he had missed my touch, and he clung to me like a terrified child. The man I loved, though in agony, was there, if only for a few minutes. Even after two months solid of horrible abuse, my first instinct was to hold and comfort him, and I did. But then he withdrew again, and that is the last time he ever touched me in kindness, or I could look in his eyes and see that he still existed. He shut down after that, and never came back.

Meandthee, it sounds like you have some really good coping strategies, and thankfully a great support network. I think that must work wonders. Wow. That is really tragic news - that your therapist said that in most cases even a peaceful coexistence is impossible.

It's sad just from the human perspective, but I have so much stuff still over there, and I suppose I will likely never get my stuff back. I know he won't reimburse me financially for things we jointly paid for, but even the things I owned before I met him. Sentimental items with great personal value. I'm not material in that sense, but these are just... .my personal belongings. Why the hell would he want those things? Like my cookbooks, or some small decorative items, or books and films he wouldn't even be interested in? I guess I could have a friend of mine whom he has met and always liked email him in a few months and ask if he would kindly arrange something? (Maybe he will have calmed down a bit by then.) The thing is - he wasn't abusive to other people or casual friends. The likelihood he would go off on her is slim to none. He might trash talk me, but he'd not likely be rude to her.

Part of me wonders if he keeps these things as a measure of some sort of control. He gives me the silent treatment and refuses contact as a punishment, but if he really wanted me out of his life, and to have a clean break, I'd think that he would REALLY want to arrange for me to have everything out of the house, so there would be no reason to speak ever again. I just don't get it. I guess BPD behavior isn't all that rational, though.

Same with my ex re: the family and enabling. They fully know his history, and they have seen all his relationships be short - and end badly. Except for with his ex-wife. That was longer, but still ended badly. Yet still... .in the end he had them convinced I was "purposefully torturing him", even though they had clearly seen the opposite with their own eyes. I'm still in awe of that. I had a really normal upbringing, kind and supportive family, and no drama or past trauma. This was all completely new to me, and I was in for a hell of a shock when it all happened. The way he could distort the reality and perception of everyone around him was mind-blowing. 

[Cromwell]

Sentimental items with great personal value. I'm not material in that sense, but these are just... .my personal belongings. Why the hell would he want those things? Like my cookbooks, or some small decorative items, or books and films he wouldn't even be interested in? I guess I could have a friend of mine whom he has met and always liked email him in a few months and ask if he would kindly arrange something? (Maybe he will have calmed down a bit by then.) The thing is - he wasn't abusive to other people or casual friends. The likelihood he would go off on her is slim to none. He might trash talk me, but he'd not likely be rude to her.

Part of me wonders if he keeps these things as a measure of some sort of control. He gives me the silent treatment and refuses contact as a punishment, but if he really wanted me out of his life, and to have a clean break, I'd think that he would REALLY want to arrange for me to have everything out of the house, so there would be no reason to speak ever again. I just don't get it. I guess BPD behavior isn't all that rational, though.

Keeping trinkets/relics is quite common behaviour as a way to self soothe using them as reminders of your existence. Its like a childs comfort blanket. Although this is just one way of explaining it - I wonder why after all that I went through with my ex, the times she demonised me, when by accident I met her twice she was wearing a sports hoody of mine, why she held on to an expired credit card I had discarded and carried around with her - I noticed it in her pocket but never asked her why.

 Ive never asked, theres interesting theories on it ive since read about, ultimately it could just be the case he couldnt care less about your stuff, is too depressed to even find it significant, rooted in his own apathy and if you make arrangements to collect it - there wouldnt be any issue. Ive read about holding on to possessions as a form of control and leverage to avoid abandonment though - he might be painting you black now - it doesnt necessarily mean he wants you out his life forever.

[BasementDweller]

Hi Cromwell,

I am definitely painted the blackest shade of black right now, and it think it is likely that at least to some degree he is apathetic. But I have tried to make practical arrangements to retrieve my stuff, and he completely ignores the requests, though I know he is aware.

During the ill-fated meeting we had, I told him that I wanted to make some arrangements for me to be able to pick up the rest of my things. He completely ignored the request, did not respond to it, and changed the subject to demand repeatedly why I was such a horrible person who treated him so badly. He was hellbent on berating me about this perception of his, but did not even address the question about my stuff.

Somewhere in there he told me he wanted to be friends but needed about six month's time. Less than a half an hour later, he had his friend text me to say he never wanted to speak to me again, ever. I have gotten about 756352748608043 different versions of what he says he wants in the last six weeks. My head is spinning. I think he's still totally off his rocker right now, and not at all able to grasp reality.

I think you may be right that it's a combo of wanting some control, and also apathy. And he's too dysregulated right now to make decisions about anything and stick to them.

The way your ex held on to your objects, (and I think this may be a common trait with BPD's for whatever reason)... .reminds me of serial killers and how they keep "mementos" from their victims.  :frustrated:

[Cromwell]

If there is any alcohol or drug use as a crutch, that can make already stress related behaviour become aggravated?

Ive known people to walk out of completely furnished homes - abandoning actual fully paid off homes - just to reclaim their lives back. Its your property - and I know the sentimental value in cookbooks - I can relate - but its your weighing up of how much to press for them. Its important to weigh up and him using it as potential leverage is important to bear in mind.

Can you imagine him having adopted the mindset "I have her cookbooks! lets see how long it takes her to grovel for them"

They dont eat any bread in his house, so im with on your thoughts that he doesnt need to care about it, but they can be useful for future leverage. I wonder how much of his behaviour is rooted in testing you, its important to note that it wasnt him who directed the message to you - that would carry with it more personal signifcance - it was done via a 3rd party.

Everything speaks to me that its not "over" for him however else it might appear on the surface.

[BasementDweller]

Right now, I am just staying out of his way and not trying to initiate any contact other than a very polite BIFF style message after the meeting that asked if we could arrange at some time to handle some of the practical matters of me retrieving my things. He knows I want them back, but I also can't force the issue, or he will start squawking that I am harassing or stalking him, I'm sure of it.

Yes, he definitely used his friend as the rescuer in his drama triangle at the time of the split, and eventually I told his friend that I really appreciated how he had tried to help, but I didn't feel that the triangulation was helping anyone, and if my ex had something to say to me, then he could feel free to do so himself. He left it alone at that point. I haven't heard from either of them now since the meeting.

Yes, I too thought it weird that he would tell me he wanted to be friends to my face and tell me to contact him via email (all the while berating me) then ask his friend to send me the "I hate you leave me alone" message 30 minutes later. It was so junior high. But... .my ex is 50.

At this point he is so adamant about telling me in the most hurtful ways that he never wants to see me again, or have any contact with me ever, that I find it hard to believe he will ever initiate contact. However... .that rage and hatred came after he had been civil to me on the day I moved and offered to help with the rest in a few days. Nothing happened in between. He just worked himself into a frenzy by himself. So yeah, he's all over the map right now, and I think just laying low for now is the best course of action. He is likely to turn any civil attempts on my part to have an adult conversation into some sort of act of aggression or harassment. So frustrating. I'm hurt and devastated about the whole situation, but trying to suck it up and just be a civil adult. Put my feelings and sorrow aside and just say "Hey, can we be adults here?" But... .you know how that goes. It's all just so sad. I would never want to have a grudge with anyone. Much less someone I once loved.

[Cromwell]

I think laying low and waiting is wise choice from the range of other options as well.

Its designed to be no-win situation - you have been told to stay away, yet at the same time your lack of trying to contact him - even if for your belongings opens the validation of "she doesnt care about me - look at the state im in, she knows its obvious I need her help - yet she abandoned me".

I type that in the sort of monologue self-hypnotic trance style my ex would come out with.

but of all the options, keeping some space seems the most sensible.

[Baglady]

Hi BD,

My exBPDh dysregulated big time last November and went into an almost month long period of active psychosis (wherein he painted also painted me the blackest of black) before stabilizing gradually over the last few months a little at at time.  It think that you may be looking for rational motivations in the completely irrational.  uring his breakdown, my ex was purely emotionally driven literally from impulsive minute to impulsive minute - he now admits that he himself still doesn't really understand what was driving him and actually he has a very limited memory of a lot of his behavior at the time. It was terrifying to experience and witness such an episode and like you I was catatonic and completely overwhelmed and traumatized during and immediately after it.  I see a T and 9 months later I'm still dealing with the trauma of it all.  I don't know if I'll ever be able to erase my memory of his hatred and harshness and the sheer amount of venom that he expressed toward me during his episode (it was mostly verbal raging 24/7 for 14 days although he did put me through a period of cursing and literally spitting at me).  At the same time, he was saying stuff like "I can't live without you" - my brain nearly imploded with the irrationality of it all.

We divorced and he is more stable now.  He wants to try to be friends but ironically now I've done a complete 360 for what it's worth.  I wish I could go NC but we coparent.  This absolutely shocks me because I really clung and fought so hard initially for him and our marriage but now as time as gone on - I'm actually finding myself being more and more repelled by him.  I just can't get past his treatment of me during his breakdown - until then I only caught the briefest of glimpses of this side of him during our marriage - it was terrifying and I have no wish to relive this episode again or live in fear of him dysregulating again.  Now I'm choosing sanity and normality and peace.

The feelings you feel so acutely for him now may or may not change over time (I wouldn't NEVER have believed that I'd be so repulsed by my ex right now even as I still grapple with detaching from him - why are humans so complicated ).

I hear you, I feel you and I've been there too for what it's worth

Now I try to focus on the idea that my ex's hurtful words speak far, far more to what is broken in him rather than what is broken in me (but I'm working in therapy on my stuff for sure).

Slowing coming out of the other side and everyday it gets a little bit easier and easier.
Warmly
B

[BasementDweller]

Thank you, cromwell - I think all things considered, that's the best course of action. I think in some way, even though he forced me out, that he still had his abandonment issues triggered when I actually did leave. So he sees me as the enemy that hurt him, even though he projects that he wanted me to go. It feels safer to him to be the one in control of that, I imagine. And to paint me as "the bad guy" as well.

I don't want to fuel his fire for drama right now by trying to contact him, because he will absolutely parlay that into "She won't leave me alone. She's bothering me and trying to hurt me." Example: at the end of his two month stint of lurking in the basement in that condition, I went down there and told him I was really worried about him, and maybe he needed to come up and think about getting some help. He yelled at me to leave him alone and stop being "aggressive". I calmly explained that trying to speak to your partner because you are concerned about them is not aggression. He twisted this into: "She stood in the doorway screaming at me for hours about what a loser I was when I wanted some privacy." His friend told me that this was the version of events he gave him. At no point in my life have I ever had the time or energy to stand in one spot and scream at someone for hours. I don't think I have ever screamed in my life, TBH.  

So all things considered, I'd rather be seen as accepting his discard than trying to pressure him. It's possible he has already told people I am sending him threatening mails demanding my things while he is trying to nurse a broken heart... .or similar. It is inconvenient for me to still have to be bending to his will, but really, that's the nature of the beast with this condition. You don't get a fair and reasonable shake, and anything can set them off, or be contorted to make them the victim and you the horrible aggressor.

[BasementDweller]

Hi BD,

My exBPDh dysregulated big time last November and went into an almost month long period of active psychosis (wherein he painted also painted me the blackest of black) before stabilizing gradually over the last few months a little at at time.  It think that you may be looking for rational motivations in the completely irrational.  

Hi, Baglady! 

I'm so sorry to hear that you also had to go through such a horrible experience. It is truly terrifying when the actual psychosis happens. It sounds like yours and my experiences were very similar. And yes, I have always been a very rational and logical person, so I can't help but do that. It's like trying to put out a fire by throwing glitter on it. Not gonna work. I remained in the house with him for two months of constant abuse, paranoia, bizarre accusations, and the like as well. I finally left when I knew it was only going to get worse, and never resolve with me there.

The sad thing is (or one of many) that his mother has BPD, and his sister Histrionic PD. Him and his sister feed off of and fuel each other's drama, and when they are "getting along" they gang up on and attack others. When they are not, they cut off each other for years at a time, and talk sh!t about one another. He has cut off his mother, since about 4 years ago and has tried many times in the past to get her to explain why she abandoned him when he was a year and a half old, for over two years. She always gave strange excuses like she was studying for her driver's license. He has always resented her for this. Now she has Alzheimers, and is getting rather confused. He will never get his answer. He and his sister by default have to arrange with the state for her to have a caregiver. He wants nothing to do with the process, but reluctantly helps his sister with it. Right as the sh!t hit the fan with he and I, he received a letter in the mail from the state saying that she had threatened and attacked her caregiver, accusing her of robbing her bank account (she did not) and the woman quit. He and the sister were then appointed her caregivers until another one could be found, and they also suggested the possibility of putting her in a home. She actually lives ok independently (so far) and her answer to that is "over my dead body"... .so that didn't help much, but drove him further to madness. It was a lot at once. A lot.

It's interesting to hear how you became eventually repulsed by your ex, and your sadness and grief turned to really not liking him. I kind of hope that happens to me, or something like indifference. Something other than missing him would be great.   I am glad you are emerging on the other side now, and also realizing that you did nothing to deserve this, nor could you prevent it. I still grapple with that and feel a lot of guilt and remorse... .I suppose (hope) that will fade in time and be replaced by a more realistic view of an unfortunate and largely unpreventable situation.

Thank you for sharing your story! I'm so sorry it happened, but it's good that we can share with each other and realize we aren't alone in these bizarre and scary experiences.

[Cromwell]

Hi Basement

Im with you on all accounts, from what you describe id imagine you could walk into his room, drop a tonne of Gold bullion on the floor and walk away saying nothing, yet still have your name blackened - its the mindset he is in, its highly charged - there is in my experience no reasoning, no negotiating can take place, the mind is rigid and inflexible, until he runs out of steam - it takes a lot of energy to sustain all these cognitive distortions of fact. There is no painted black permanently, the issue is he has his enabler friend for validation, the power of triangulation, just remove yourself from it and it collapses inwards. How likely is it that the therapist gets drawn in too? Hopefully they will be aware of it.

When you tried to rationalise with him, at the same time it invalidated his response. Sure any reasonable minded person will side with your explanation, the fact is - he doesnt. If he labels your behaviour as "aggressive" it is, regardless of you justifying and defending it.

There is a tool called "JADE" - not to justify, argue, defend or explain.

It feels the natural thing to do - correct and try to bring the other around to our way of thinking - make them "see sense" in scenarios like this it is just providing ammunition or more fuel to the fire, they wont come around to our way of thinking - however clear it is. My ex would never apologise for anything - thats not to say she didnt feel shame for her behaviour once she ran oasut of steam and worked herself out of that fixated, circular state of thinking. It would be another invitation to have a good day together, a compensation and unspoken apology, which was more rooted in the fear of me leaving than for my benefit.

It also pulled at my heart strings when I saw my ex in a dishevelled, seemingly floundering state - its not that she didnt appreciate my help in her life, getting better doesnt happen by washing the dishes for them - it comes through a very long process of hard work on their issues that have led to that - stuff we have nothing to do with, were just in the midst of it. My ex had moments of wanting to get better, she seeked out help, it looked like progress was starting - then it would be sabotaged. Rinse and Repeat. She got better for 5 minutes - and each time I saw that was a new glimmer of "hope" imbibed.

It can seem strange to be painted black, the victim of a smear campaign, your name blackened and you feel like you have been made out to be the anti-christ reborn in the eyes of the person who said they loved you. It is equally strange that 5mins later your back as the best invention since sliced bread, youd think that you get used to this pattern, that eventually those hurtful words and pushed away behaviour you can just shrug off as another "episode". Yet for me at least, they hurt exceptionally - like a critical strike - each time. Ive never met anyone who could elicit that level of emotional response in me, even how much time goes on and not adapt to it. Its important to have our own outlet to release some steam, he has his friend but do what you can to get it out your system too - i think you are instinctively right to step back and not add any more fuel to it by trying to get him to "see sense".

[MeandThee29]

Very early on after mine left, a friend of mine who had worked in a mental hospital commented that it is extremely common for those with mental illness to focus on an individual as the source of their problems as the scapegoat. She told me not to take all of the blame on myself. At that point, I didn't really get that at all, but now I do.

I've spent months with various people and professionals who are for more savvy with these things than I am, and the consensus is that I was codependent and took way too much trying to keep things afloat. By no means am I innocent, but at least I've sought to get to the bottom of how this happened on my end. My focus has been on changing me and my perceptions. I have learned that I cannot rescue him any more. He has chosen to live far away, and I have little if any responsibility for him.

All of his counselling has been with his side of the family without me present, and they have focused me and what he has told them of me. He has conveniently left out the more ugly and vindictive parts from his side and how his thinking damaged things. They see no reason for him to go to counselling and don't know why I will never meet with him one-on-one again.

I am seeing some good from all of this though. I'm closer than ever to friends and family on my side, and I've worked through a lot of really hard stuff.

[Cromwell]

Very early on after mine left, a friend of mine who had worked in a mental hospital commented that it is extremely common for those with mental illness to focus on an individual as the source of their problems as the scapegoat. She told me not to take all of the blame on myself. At that point, I didn't really get that at all, but now I do.

I've spent months with various people and professionals who are for more savvy with these things than I am, and the consensus is that I was codependent and took way too much trying to keep things afloat. By no means am I innocent, but at least I've sought to get to the bottom of how this happened on my end. My focus has been on changing me and my perceptions. I have learned that I cannot rescue him any more. He has chosen to live far away, and I have little if any responsibility for him.

All of his counselling has been with his side of the family without me present, and they have focused me and what he has told them of me. He has conveniently left out the more ugly and vindictive parts from his side and how his thinking damaged things. They see no reason for him to go to counselling and don't know why I will never meet with him one-on-one again.

I am seeing some good from all of this though. I'm closer than ever to friends and family on my side, and I've worked through a lot of really hard stuff.

Thats really encouraging to hear Meandthee29, I can acknowledge my own faults in the relationship but it is difficult to feel demonised when all the good intent was there to help someone - guide them to happiness - in the end you feel sabotaged, vilified, but with no rational justification. One of the most heartwrenching moments was mid relationship when she told me that being with me had made her already acknowledged mental issues worse - not - better. I needed to pinch myself to see if I was actually awake and not imagining what id just heard. Its how stuff like that just comes out of nowhere - entirely unexpected, there is no apparent build up for it or anything that can be justified or explained. It just made no genuine sense to me at all. But deeply hurtful all the same.

[BasementDweller]

Hi Basement
There is a tool called "JADE" - not to justify, argue, defend or explain.

Hi, cromwell - Yes, I totally hear you, and I know that was a mild JADE on my part. But at that point, it made no difference. He was lost in the madness. I spent 2.5 years with that man learning to stifle my truth and "use the tools" I leaned here, instead of talking to him like a normal adult.

A normal convo between two rational thinkers might go like this:

Non1: "You are being rude to me."
Non2: "No, I'm not. I'm just stressed out because of work. It's not you."
Non1: "Oh, ok. Sorry. I didn't realize."

I have been used to that my entire life. Telling the truth generally gets the job done. Explaining to a rational person how it is... .works. As it should.

Convos between a non and a pwBPD can look like this:

pwBPD: "I hate you! You're the anti-Christ! You are trying to destroy me! I hope you die and burn in hell!"

Non: "I'm sorry to hear you say you feel that way. That must be tough. Why don't I go for a walk and give you some space?"

That in itself is nuts! That we have to put up with so much horrific abuse, and respond with coddling mental gymnastics in order to just absorb all the vitriol, and not trigger the fragile BPD any further with terrible, awful facts - like the fact that we don't deserve this.

I guess at that point, when I approached him in the basement, I was done. He needed to pull himself together and cut the crap. My last ditch attempt at reason was just to say, "That's not aggression."

Maybe after another year of therapy, that truth will sink in. "No, perhaps it wasn't aggression. I get it now." Maybe not. I dunno. At this point, it doesn't matter anymore. I guess that was my last hurrah at not walking on eggshells anymore. I defended my truth anyway, after neglecting to do so for all that time just to cater to his insanity. Nothing I did worked in the end, anyway.

There is no painted black permanently, the issue is he has his enabler friend for validation, the power of triangulation, just remove yourself from it and it collapses inwards. How likely is it that the therapist gets drawn in too? Hopefully they will be aware of it.

That I can't be sure of. It's a good question. I really don't know how his therapy is going or if the therapist knows what is going on and and sees his illness for what it is, if he is being forthcoming, or if he is manipulating her and playing the victim... .or a combination of both. There is a part of me that wonders if his massive change in perspective from the time he said he'd return to the apartment to help me, to rage filled outbursts then NC/ST without any events in between are because he IS playing the victim, and telling her that I'm "the sick one" and she is urging NC for him to "protect himself" from me. I can't be sure, but I do know that after our failed attempts at couples counseling, our old T told him he needed intensive therapy for BPD, and should start there - and he agreed and said he'd go. Then he made an appointment with this person, whom I think is supposed to be well versed with the disorder. So, I really don't know.

One thing that was REALLY interesting is that after his BPD came up in the couples counseling, shortly after he began to accuse me of the following:

Rage issues
Being "a chameleon"
Being an "actress"
Manipulation
Impulsivity
Being an alcoholic (the same guy that guzzled 4 bottles of wine and tried to drive the car)
Self mutilation (after I cut my finger while chopping food)
Of him being "afraid" of me
Of him needing to "record our conversations because I might frame him"
Of him needing to leave the house to go to a "safe space" because of my "aggression". (I basically avoided him in the end.)

It was all so bizarre, and nothing I had ever heard before in my life from anyone, ever. The complete opposite, in fact. I was baffled by these odd accusations out of nowhere.

It didn't take long for me to figure out he was reading all about BPD, doing some pretty heavy research, and accusing me of all the BPD traits he had himself, (minus self-mutilation) and had read about. It was... .unbelievable. Of course, during his distortion campaign, he already had a written script he had gotten from his readings on the internet to describe my behaviors... .whiiiiiiiich were actually his. Clever guy, really.

He may have also read that people often have to go NC to "protect themselves" from their BPD partners, so maybe he's beating me to the punch. He's stone-cold bat-sh!t crazy - I get that now, but he's also very, very smart. His projections skills are Ninja level.

I've spent months with various people and professionals who are for more savvy with these things than I am, and the consensus is that I was codependent and took way too much trying to keep things afloat. By no means am I innocent, but at least I've sought to get to the bottom of how this happened on my end. My focus has been on changing me and my perceptions. I have learned that I cannot rescue him any more. He has chosen to live far away, and I have little if any responsibility for him.

Hi meandthee - I'm glad that you are now feeling that you have a good support system around you and you are able to get some perspective from outside the goldfish bowl, and work on some things too. I am working on the same.

I think the term "co-dependent" gets thrown around a little too liberally sometimes. Anyone at any time can be caught unawares in a relationship with a difficult person, and still have the strength and compassion to care, be supportive, and continue to honor the commitment you made to that person, because it's the right thing to do. (Until it becomes unsustainable, perhaps.)

Unless a person continuously seeks out "broken people" with obvious serious disorders and jumps headlong into the "angel of mercy" role over and over again... .then they might not be co-dependent - just patient and compassionate.

Prior to my BPD ex, I never had a high-conflict relationship with an unstable person. Quite the opposite. I've always been a calm, rational, and no-nonsense person. To a fault maybe, and I always attracted the same. I can't recall an incident in my entire adult life or any past relationship where a dramatic argument happened, or myself or my partner ever raised their voice. I was always compassionate and tolerant of people with "issues"  though - even had many of them as friends. So called "difficult people" never bothered me. But I never a high conflict romantic relationship.

When I met my exBPD, he was funny, smart, loving, gregarious, passionate, and a little "off" but I had no idea... .

I chalked up his moodiness and odd responses to things in the beginning as cultural differences, language nuance barriers, stress, etc... .I didn't realize how sick he truly was.

When the bottom fell out, I was totally blown away, but still stood by him for as long as I could - because I loved him, and I made a commitment, and I thought "this too shall pass". I am also a really tolerant and unflappable person, so I could take it for a while. It was only when he went into full-blown prolonged psychosis that I knew this was beyond anything I could manage with "patience". So I did eventually leave when I had no choice. I only made it 2.5 years. It broke my heart - but I couldn't help him.

I think any kind caring person can get into a tough situation and want what's best for their partner who may be unhealthy and they do their best to be supportive. It's when a person habitually seeks out these types of relationships and has a pattern of it that maybe there are co-dependency issues to address. And that's ok. It's not a bad thing. At the heart of it is usually a very caring soul that truly wants to help people.

I too wanted to help my partner. Not "fix a broken man" - support the man I loved in hard times. But he needed more than I could give. It was beyond what I could do.

We should all give ourselves a break. Anyone surviving a BPD relationship, sticking around through the worst of times, whether through 1 year or 30 - has the patience of a saint and should be proud of themselves for making an effort to be the best partner they could to a person who isn't the easiest to live with. Our intentions are good. I at least know that about myself - and you. 

[babyducks]

BasementDweller,

I had wondered what happened to you when you dropped off the boards.     I am sincerely sorry for all you have been through and are still going through.     I remember too well the indescribable pain and shame of the demise of my relationship.    I know how badly this hurts.

The end of a relationship with a mentally ill person is like nothing I ever experienced before.    It was catastrophic for me.    Still what I learned by living through the process, is,... .it is a process.     The early days are the worst where the shame, and blame fly around like chaff in the wind.    Having gone through it... .I can say that our Ex's are not as believable as they like to think or we tend to believe.    I too got the "I am so afraid of you, you are so violent and unpredictable".     and a couple of people fell for that for a little while,   many many people didn't fall for that.      While my ex was projecting all her bad behaviors to off load her shame and blame on me,... .I walked around and was as normal and authentically myself as I could be.      If people asked me I said 'yes it was a difficult break up but I don't think it's wise to talk about it just now."


I think being in a relationship with a person who is high conflict, or unstable is different.     I think it was different for me because her 'core wound'   and my 'core wound'   aligned with each other.   that's what made it so grievous all the way through it.

I know you did everything you could, with the best of intentions.    I know this is a hard time.    Just keep putting one foot in front of the other and be gentle with yourself.

'ducks

[MeandThee29]

Convos between a non and a pwBPD can look like this:

pwBPD: "I hate you! You're the anti-Christ! You are trying to destroy me! I hope you die and burn in hell!"

Non: "I'm sorry to hear you say you feel that way. That must be tough. Why don't I go for a walk and give you some space?"

That in itself is nuts! That we have to put up with so much horrific abuse, and respond with coddling mental gymnastics in order to just absorb all the vitriol, and not trigger the fragile BPD any further with terrible, awful facts - like the fact that we don't deserve this.

One thing that was REALLY interesting is that after his BPD came up in the couples counseling, shortly after he began to accuse me of the following:

Rage issues
Being "a chameleon"
Being an "actress"
Manipulation
Impulsivity
Being an alcoholic (the same guy that guzzled 4 bottles of wine and tried to drive the car)
Self mutilation (after I cut my finger while chopping food)
Of him being "afraid" of me
Of him needing to "record our conversations because I might frame him"
Of him needing to leave the house to go to a "safe space" because of my "aggression". (I basically avoided him in the end.)

It was all so bizarre, and nothing I had ever heard before in my life from anyone, ever. The complete opposite, in fact. I was baffled by these odd accusations out of nowhere.

I think the term "co-dependent" gets thrown around a little too liberally sometimes. Anyone at any time can be caught unawares in a relationship with a difficult person, and still have the strength and compassion to care, be supportive, and continue to honor the commitment you made to that person, because it's the right thing to do. (Until it becomes unsustainable, perhaps.)

Unless a person continuously seeks out "broken people" with obvious serious disorders and jumps headlong into the "angel of mercy" role over and over again... .then they might not be co-dependent - just patient and compassionate.

Yes, the conversations can be mind-blowing. I often couldn't figure out where he would get things, and the escalation was always tough. How can you go from a relatively minor issue to burning every bridge in sight. Then he'd expect to go on as if nothing happened and would later deny what he said.

Projection is also very common. It's a way of taking the focus off of them. Shame is also involved.

I agree that codependency and being empathetic shouldn't be confused. Being a partner that wants to be there for the other's troubles is a good thing. When it's done without boundaries, it is a bad thing. Certainly I failed at times, but he expected a superhuman focus on his needs. According to him, I was an utter failure that way. Friends and my counsellors have said that I went beyond what most spouses would do and that he was looking to me to fill emptiness that no woman could fill.

All hard stuff.

[Cromwell]

Hi BasementDweller

Its hard not to escape that how you describe it matches up with my "2 in 1" person experience with my ex.

Theres a whole list of positive traits that you fell in love with, along with the physical attraction. Undeniable for me that if I could have amputated away all the parts that caused such destruction, she would be 'perfect' and life would be but a dream.

Then theres the need for a healthy medium to be realistic, somethings not right if there isnt an argument here or there - a bit of drama - disappointments. Things to look back on in time and feel they were overcome - in this case you held out hope for being with him to get through a long-haul route of therapy - I would have done the same.

How long can it go on for - as you said and I agree fully - until hope has become entirely extinct.

Its not that I dont believe my ex could move towards recovery, its possible, its that I got to my own limitations where it wasnt about "her" anymore - id lost in the midst of it an appraisal of what I was getting out, what I wanted, and being on the receiving end of too much of what I definatly "didnt" want.

When it got to breaking point and realising that id even shelved my own health for continuing in this relationship - it couldnt have at that point ever more obvious, no room for denial anymore, that stuff had went completely out of sync.

I can write all day about how crazy my ex was, it doesnt take much to give a persuasive argument - I cant detract from the day she called me "crazy" and just sideline it as a bit of banter - there was a grain of truth in it. It was enough to start questioning myself a bit - was this the way I actually wanted to live - in the company of a psychotic deeply disturbed person? It was starting to rub off, from a prior life where concepts such as 'triggers' didnt even exist, I was starting to accumulate my own collection of them.

Perhaps at the time I met her, or for a long time with her, I never valued my health enough - I appeased her, I was apathetic - i didnt need a tool kit, I just incrementally let her do and say what she liked let another boundary slip, nothing happened overnight but I woke up one day and felt I wasnt walking on eggshells anymore, eggshells were walking on me. She translated that into her mind as I was a willingly submissive, masochistic boyfriend and she was just role playing out what I wanted.

I woke up one day, three years later, and had to decide to prove otherwise. There was no other way to get the message across - No Contact, twice now - I am even misguided to believe she has got the 'hint' - she will have obscured this into something else that is more palatable for her conscience or sense of shame. It didnt help that I gave her my number again 10 months after being decisive - but im not perfect either.

[BasementDweller]

Hi, ducks! Good to hear from you.   Thank you for the kind words.

Yes, I decided to take a breather from the boards because I was so entrenched in doing damage control and trying to minimize the fallout, and exhausted from having BPD be the focal point of my life. I withdrew for a bit to regroup.

I am definitely still in the raw stages of grieving, and feeling a lot of guilt and shame, but also knowing deep down that I did the best I could and there wasn't much else I could do. All the love in the world couldn't have reached this guy. Like you, I still feel terrible that I left a mentally ill person at their lowest low. The situation was hopeless, though.

You did mention some of your experiences with your ex and how she also projected a lot of her behaviors onto you and smeared you to others. I'm sorry you had to also be exposed to that - seems to be how the script plays out in these situations quite often, I'm finding.

Sometimes, I amaze myself at how naive I can be, even for a well traveled intelligent person who has seen some real sh!t in life. I really was flabbergasted to learn in the end that he had been laying the groundwork for his distortion campaign for nearly ten months or so before the day I left. I never saw it coming. I really would have defended him until the end claiming "He may be troubled, but he'd never go behind my back and talk badly about me. He knows I have his back." HA! That was what hurt the most. We had our issues, but I never went to third parties to speak ill of him. If I had an issue with him I told him to his face, or to our therapist (with him in the room) or vented here anonymously. To this day, even after our bad ending, I would not stoop to that level - especially not to blatantly lie about him. That hurt like hell.

I think he will likely never speak to me again (because in the end, I did leave) but if by some strange chance he ever reached out again, I think the one thing that would stop me dead in my tracks from falling into his trap again would be that I cannot trust him. It's not the verbal lashings, or the unpredictable behavior, or even the psychotic breaks that did the most damage - it's that he went out of his way to lie about me to others, and turn people who once liked me (and knew better) against me.

His enabling friend has seen the light, and while he still enables - he told me he knew my ex was full of sh!t in the end. His family still buys into it, I imagine. I guess that's to be expected. They may see the light someday too, or drop the matter altogether. I guess I don't care anymore. I was really good to them and welcomed them into our home on a number of occasions, cooked dinner for them, invited them to holiday parties, hosted their kids, etc... .If that's how they act in the end - it's cowardly, disrespectful, and I have no use for them.

I would forgive him almost anything due to his illness, (sad but true) but the blatant bald-faced lies - nope. Unforgivable. Unhinged or not... .some of his bizarre stories were likely distorted perceptions of reality, but others were flat-out vicious fabrications. He knew he was lying. He had to.

Perhaps the anger actually helps at times like this.

How have you been doing?  

[BasementDweller]

meandthee and cromwell - thank you for your responses, I did not see them until after I replied to 'ducks. I am going to go for a run to blow off some steam then reply to both of you. 

Because what were we just talking about?

He just emailed me.

Details pending. I have to determine whether to smile, cry, scream, punch a wall, or drink heavily. So I'll jog instead.