There was nothing left to salvage. He totally self-destructed.

[heartandwhole]

Hi BasementDweller,

I wanted to reach out and say how sorry I am that things spiraled into such a painful ending. How incredibly stressful and traumatic. I'm amazed at how self-reflective and articulate you are posting about it—I think in your shoes, I'd be babbling nonsense.

In my experience, this is the darkest time. So much loss, so much grief to process. And then, there are glimmers of hope, joy, light again. I didn't believe it (and didn't care), but they came, and my life got better and better.

Keep writing, as you can. Keep reaching out for support. Things really do change for the better. I admire your strength and compassion. 

heartandwhole

[MeandThee29]

He just emailed me.

Details pending. I have to determine whether to smile, cry, scream, punch a wall, or drink heavily. So I'll jog instead. 

Take your time to process. Good choice to get some exercise.

[BasementDweller]

Perhaps at the time I met her, or for a long time with her, I never valued my health enough - I appeased her, I was apathetic - i didnt need a tool kit, I just incrementally let her do and say what she liked let another boundary slip, nothing happened overnight but I woke up one day and felt I wasnt walking on eggshells anymore, eggshells were walking on me. She translated that into her mind as I was a willingly submissive, masochistic boyfriend and she was just role playing out what I wanted.

I woke up one day, three years later, and had to decide to prove otherwise. There was no other way to get the message across - No Contact, twice now - I am even misguided to believe she has got the 'hint' - she will have obscured this into something else that is more palatable for her conscience or sense of shame. It didnt help that I gave her my number again 10 months after being decisive - but im not perfect either.

Cromwell, this got to be my problem as well. Slowly but surely the more I catered to all the drama the more of me fell away until I was depressed, anxious, overweight, perpetually stressed, performing poorly at work, neglecting my friends and my own needs, and technically - of no real use to him anyway. pwBPD need strong "leadership" type people. Boundary setters. The kind of person I always was. The kind of person he fell in love with, the kind of person I had forgotten how to be. Now, less than 2 months later, I weigh 25 pounds less (ok maybe not the healthiest way to do it, the broken heart diet) but it's my normal healthy weight that I started at. I'm in the final round of interviews for a promising new job (I had my panel interview at the pinnacle of my post break-up misery and still nailed it). I exercise every day now, and and don't drink any alcohol, save for a couple of beers on weekends if I am out with friends, and no overdoing it, no drinking because I feel bad, etc. ONLY if and when I feel good and in the right environment. No junk or "comfort foods". No hard liquor, etc.  Mentally, I'm still struggling but feeling better a little at a time, sleep is still less than stellar, but it's all an improvement. Physically, I look healthy again. I have anxiety pills but I am not taking them... .don't want to start getting dependent. I will save them for emergencies. Don't get me wrong, I'm a mess. But I don't want to become a mess with a pill habit. 

I think when many of us get to the point where we physically and mentally deteriorate to that degree... .our fragile and needy BPD partners sort of realize there's nothing left to milk out of us. Then they might dysregulate or start the D/D process.

I agree that codependency and being empathetic shouldn't be confused. Being a partner that wants to be there for the other's troubles is a good thing. When it's done without boundaries, it is a bad thing. Certainly I failed at times, but he expected a superhuman focus on his needs. According to him, I was an utter failure that way. Friends and my counsellors have said that I went beyond what most spouses would do and that he was looking to me to fill emptiness that no woman could fill.

All hard stuff.

I agree, meandthee, and it's a very slippery slope before we can quickly descend into unhealthy territory before we even know what hit us. And BPD's, like other emotionally needy people, know when they have a compassionate soul on their hands, and man they know how to push the buttons and test the limits and milk it to death. Lesson learned for me!

And now... .the email.

[BasementDweller,]


1. I haven't said a negative word to anybody about us. Nobody has tried to contact me in any way to ask.

2. Your things that you want, sure no problem. I will wait until your movie arrives. Then I will unblock you so that we can make an agreement on when I drop by with them.

3. Please do not mail me any extensive, long as f*ck emails about whatever it is you want to write; cuz I will not read them. Absolutely no interest in doing that. The consequence if you do that would be to further and further push away a future possibility of some kind of friendship, not the other way around. So please, let things have a rest!

4. I had a friend drop one of your letters into the mailbox where you live, today.

5. Your email address will be unblocked for one hour.

OK. So that wasn't what I was expecting. It was a little funny and a little irritating, but mostly that sharp, fear based stab of "OH SH!T" that I felt in my chest when I saw his name in the inbox... .wasn't so warranted. This email is a bit arrogant, but NOT psycho. I can handle arrogant.

My reply:

1. Me neither. Thank you.

2. The movie was forwarded to the post office, so I can pick it up. No worries. The rest, thank you.

3. Don't wanna waste my stellar verbosity on ingrates. Wish granted. ;-)

4. Thank you.

5. See above.

   

The breakdown:

1.) Not sure I believe this, or why he said it, but no need to open Pandora's box.

2.) That was seriously decent of him, so the thank you is sincere. But I chuckled a little when he had to let me know I was blocked. Haven't even tried - didn't know.

3.) Eh... .ok? I just had to play a LITTLE with this one. 

4.) He has one friend that is out of the country for his job, and my ex lives a five minute drive away, but has been instructed NOT to come here without asking me first. I am 100% sure he dropped it in the mailbox. Another hilarious alternative is I already have a replacement and she did it. That would make her a way better doormat than I ever was. But I doubt it. He actually spends long periods between break-ups self-isolating, self-loathing, and ultimately recovering enough to get lonely and date again. But he hates the process of starting over. Shortest single stint ever - six months. I believe he was the delivery boy on this piece of mail. Just a hunch.  ;-)

5.) Begs the question if my email is always blocked, then why does it matter if I send "extensive, long as f*ck emails about whatever it is I want to write" - he'd never see them.

The plan is he will come here at noon to deliver some of the things I wanted. At this point, I have no reason to fear a scene. I just have to be strong, look strong, and act strong and not take the bait if he makes any snide remarks. I'll mentally prepare tonight. Just business. Practical matters.

But this is why it's so nuts. A little over a week ago, he had a third party tell me he never wanted to speak to me again, and our last conversation would be the last one EVER. Oy.

Cromwell: You need to open your own psychic hotline, brother! You predicted I would hear from him, and I did not believe it. But dude. THE NEXT DAY? You are clairvoyant!

[BasementDweller]

Hi BasementDweller,

I wanted to reach out and say how sorry I am that things spiraled into such a painful ending. How incredibly stressful and traumatic. I'm amazed at how self-reflective and articulate you are posting about it—I think in your shoes, I'd be babbling nonsense.

In my experience, this is the darkest time. So much loss, so much grief to process. And then, there are glimmers of hope, joy, light again. I didn't believe it (and didn't care), but they came, and my life got better and better.

Keep writing, as you can. Keep reaching out for support. Things really do change for the better. I admire your strength and compassion. 

heartandwhole

Hi, heartandwhole! 

Thank you for writing, and the kind wishes. I appreciate that so much. I am glad to hear that after that initial rough period that things got gradually better for you.

Oh, don't be fooled, haha. I am babbling nonsense most of the time. I promise. My moods are all over the place and I'm rapid-cycling through all the stages of grief in no discernible order. I'm a hot mess, but trying to hold it together.

One day at a time, right?   

[babyducks]

Oooffff, there is an email for you.    sheeesh.

I think you did a nice job handling the email exchange.     I would suggest you continue the BIFF.

a couple of random thoughts ……

first... .how is your cyber security?    not suggesting that anything is amiss but I think it is good housekeeping to change passwords,    lock down websites and bank accounts... .you know all the typical stuff.

I'm guessing that he has already come and gone and dropped off the things you wanted.    I am glad you got them back.     Still I wonder about being in close quarters alone with him.     this is also probably an err on the side of caution thing but ……  better safe than sorry.   can you plan an exit line that sounds reasonable... .'sorry but I need to be at XYZ in 30 minutes?'.    high conflict people are boundary busters.


how was the jog?

[MeandThee29]

Oh, don't be fooled, haha. I am babbling nonsense most of the time. I promise. My moods are all over the place and I'm rapid-cycling through all the stages of grief in no discernible order. I'm a hot mess, but trying to hold it together.

One day at a time, right?   

It's OK to be a bit of a mess. Be human, be strong. You can do this.

[BasementDweller]

Hi 'ducks! No he's coming at noon tomorrow. We're in Europe so very different time zone. It's almost 2000 here.

The email situation is secure, as well as the bank - we have separate accounts at separate banks, always have.

I feel safe. The worst I think he would do is make a snide remark or lay a guilt trip. I don't fear him being violent. Also, I rent a duplex type apartment attached to a larger villa. The front doors are very close, and the family is home and will be home tomorrow. He would never escalate in a way that would have a family of witnesses on the other side of the wall. Especially if he offered to drop the stuff off. If I pressured him, he'd be more ornery. Even at his worst, he mostly kept his madness confined to where only I saw it.

Since I plan on bringing up nothing personal or sensitive it will likely be ok, and I don't think he will get provoked. If he becomes rude, I can ask him to leave my residence and if he acts up I will call for the landlord. I am 100% positive he will not. He might be sullen, but I don't think dangerous in any way.

meandthee - I'm glad it's ok to be a mess, haha! I totally am right now, no two ways about it... .working on that. :-)

[heartandwhole]

One day at a time, right?   

Definitely. And sometimes one minute at a time. 

[BasementDweller]

Yes, baby steps!   It's all ya can do!

[Cromwell]

Hi BasementDweller

Psychic hotline

when the planets are aligned favourably, the satellites keep me updated with helpful bulletins aswell as my bank account on Jupiter which the manager there assured me is secured - I have my doubts and that transfer fee aswell as currency exchange rate is crippling each time!

I asked about your cookery books, I got a clear vivid image of fossilised dishes but nothing more - my connection is waning, either that or the crystals I use as my receiver need recalibrated. I will try again but must await the next psychic drone reaching our orbit.

Ok I made all that up - but with all the terrible slander you have been doing Basement, his ears must have been burning!

Hope it goes to plan tomorrow, my sympathy to know what its like to get that spike of adrenaline, anxiety, whatever it is - you managed to reply to him within his time-demands. Its triggered me a little to recall how fixated my ex was on punctuality and time in general - probably just making a tenous link now but its given me another avenue to reflect on.

So much left to demystify, on the subject of sleep, I have a feeling Its going to take more than a canteen of chamomile tea to get my 8 hours tonight!
 
Good luck tomorrow and dont worry about cracking up, you get used to it - also keep that sense of humor you have I can see its going to serve you well in this

[BasementDweller]

Hahaha! I seriously chuckled at your sci-fi accounts of your assessment of the matter. I'm drinking chamomile tea right this second. I can't say it REALLY sedates me... .but the placebo is nice. :-)

I don't think I have the psychic abilities that you do just yet, but my prediction for tomorrow is... .that a couple of possibilities exist:

1.) He will have a panic attack and change the plans. This doesn't seem AS likely as the ill-fated day he was supposed to finish helping me move, but anything is possible with him.

2.) He will show up late, but manage the task... .but still... .let me know he's not at my beck and call, and make a speech about how generous he was to break his code of silence to do this humanitarian favor.

3.) He'll show up... .reasonably well timed, deliver the items, but make it incredibly abrupt and curt.

4.) He'll show up... .reasonably well timed, deliver the items, but make it incredibly abrupt and curt... .buuuuuuuut not be able to resist the temptation to make a few snide, baiting remarks.

You know the type of BPD described as "petulant borderline"? 100% textbook.

Millon’s third subtype is what he calls the Petulant Borderline. He describes them as being "unpredictable, irritable, impatient, and complaining" as well as "defiant, disgruntled, stubborn, pessimistic and resentful". They are torn between relying upon people and at the same time keeping their distance for fear of disappointment. They vacillate between feelings of unworthiness and anger. This anger can be quite explosive. Better not get in their line of fire.

As a consequence of their tendency to be willful and defiant, people with petulant borderline traits are often obstinate, defensive, and unwilling to admit when they are wrong. Their relationships can be loving but are always complex, and they often engage in passive-aggressive behaviors as a way of lashing out at people who displease them.

Yes. Oh, yes.

I am brimming with eagerness to see how this will go. I can't lie.

[Cromwell]

Thanks for sharing that, no I havent heard of that variation before its interested me a great deal.

As for eagerness to know how it goes - at this stage im at, there isnt anything close to the emotional depth charges going off anymore, Its been a bit unexpected but Ive found a level of fascination more into figuring out this inadvertent plunge into such a complex relationship. I wonder also how much of it really is "post-relationship" and how much being with my ex was down to being a bit, mesmerised, dumbstruck at the best of times and the eagerness to see what would happen next might have been in tune with my personality.

I made a post not long ago "my ex used to be an enigma - shes boring now"

It was like being trapped in a soap drama that would never conclude properly - the script might itself not have much to it but it becomes compulsive viewing none the less to see what next inconclusive, cliffhanger episode would result.

thanks alot for the link and I cant also deny my own curiosity of how close your prediction matches up. When I say my ex became boring, its the same way you are already visualise whats going to happen - its drama but the more you experience it, even the "snide, baiting remarks" become predicable to the point of losing their shock factor once accustomed to it all.

The satellites tell me youll be fine  dont forget your books amidst all the baited hooks!

[empath]

When I was able to detach from the drama triangle of communication, it was a lot easier for me to understand what he was doing in the moment and pick up on the baiting.

My h moved out about 5 months ago. When he was moving from his friend's house to his apartment, he packed up some things from our house to take with him and left them in our living room. Needless to say, this was disruptive to my daughter and I to have this reminder of his decision. He was going to move his things at a day and time when I had a prior commitment; I told him when he would be able to move his items. The day of the move, I contacted him to let him know that he could move them. Well, he and his "helpers" were so very tired and they had gone home, and he asked if it would be okay to wait another week to move them. I thought to myself, "heck, no, I told you when you could move, and you didn't follow though - after moving out, pulling all the funds from our bank accounts, now you want me to wait another week with your **** in the middle of the living room reminding us of what is happening?" I decided that it would be best to just say no it's not okay with me to wait another week and it needs to be out asap. He moved the things the next day while my d and I were out - then showed up where I had gone.

At least, he moved them.

[BasementDweller]

Oh, empath, I can totally understand how that would have been really frustrating - having to look at that pile of stuff just sitting there, and having him procrastinate about it. How do you feel now that he has moved all his stuff? Is it a relief?

My situation was a little different as my exBPDbf forced me out of our shared home while in a state of prolonged dysregulation/psychosis and hasn't been so cooperative about letting me get the rest of my stuff... .but he is slowly coming around and dropped some things by today without incident. It's been about 7 weeks since I left.

And the visit:

Cromwell - it was closest to selection number 3. but with a twist. (The best possible outcome really.)

My landlord has a work crew working on the front of the house, so he couldn't have started any trouble if he wanted to. But he did not. He brought his oldest son, who is 17 and I haven't seen since May, when he dysregulated and went down the rabbit hole, and the kids stayed with their mother for two months. I was really shocked about that.

That was sad, awkward, but also... .quite ok. I was really happy to see him even if only for a minute. He looked a little sad and uncomfortable too, but was polite and helpful with moving a big potted plant in for me. I smiled politely and acted as if there was nothing awkward about any of it. Welcomed them in, and thanked them for their help and told them it was nice to see them. My ex had that demeanor about him that he has when he feels shame or stress. He was brief, but awkwardly polite. I just played it cool. All I could do. I felt a little sad when they left, but overall - it was fine.

It was big step that he brought his son here. When he is really hating on me he pulls the "don't ask me about MY kids" card... .knowing I miss them terribly and care a lot about them. Today was the most civil I have seen my ex in a long time.

Not wanting to get my hopes up. (I know better than that!) But I think if I just lay low, and stay distant but polite, hopefully the worst of the drama cloud has passed. I was just happy that the boy got to see that I bear his father no ill will. He may have told him otherwise... .but he has eyes, and is a smart kid. He can see that I was civil and even friendly. I didn't feel an ounce of anger when I saw my ex. I felt... .calm, and actually - good - that it went as well as it did.

[MeandThee29]

Not wanting to get my hopes up. (I know better than that!) But I think if I just lay low, and stay distant but polite, hopefully the worst of the drama cloud has passed. I was just happy that the boy got to see that I bear his father no ill will. He may have told him otherwise... .but he has eyes, and is a smart kid. He can see that I was civil and even friendly. I didn't feel an ounce of anger when I saw my ex. I felt... .calm, and actually - good - that it went as well as it did.

Sounds like you got it.

Mine likes to come back later with a reinterpretation of what happened, so I wouldn't hold my breath if I was in your shoes. More than once I thought things went reasonably well, and then he picked it all apart and found fault in unexpected places. One time he quizzed me about our young adults. I thought he was genuinely interested. The next day he reamed me for talking enthusiastically about them. Mmm... .I am a mom. Note to self, don't talk very much about them with him.

[Cromwell]

Hi Basement

Reading this im so pleased you got a smooth outcome, at the same time it reminds me of why it was hard to detach - the way the behaviour can change like shifting sands - from the type of texts and emails I got were the worst out of normal character behaviour - when we were back together she could come across as embarrassed, shameful, sheepish, timid, tepid, meek - where had the lofty, critical, Queen gone? and I kept putting it down to "moodiness" or being depressed, lashing out on me because I just seemingly accepted each time, a safe outlet.

Leaving her was recognising the cycle is pepertual and it became more about my self esteem - all the tools didnt work (like you said) sure they are conflict resolution - they defuse the tension, they dont add more fuel to the fire - and if I wasnt emotionally involved or felt love for her - id just shrug them off, as a younger version of myself early dating id laugh, say "your nuts" and that would be the end of it. But we got involved, see the disorder we inherited along with the relationship and endure it. At least until one day I wanted more from life than that, 'waiting' and my happiness being linked to walking on eggshells to see what sort of day she would have. On a bad day, a misinterpeted joke taken as a sleight - shes off to someone elses bed as a mood lift under the guise of 'revenge'. Thats how it started but the destruction became more sinister, I had to realise I was gambling with someone who could one day paint me black and regardless if it was temporary insanity or not - could do something seriously destructive. I stopped gambling and whilst I miss the part of her that you outlay all the positives - ive found peace of mind, a good sleep and a realisation that there is more that I want than she could offer me - that really is the reductionist bottom line to it.

Your post I can relate to so much, the anxiety spike, the worry of what will happen next - only to be faced with no fireworks, not even a fizzle - yet I spent the night before not getting a minutes sleep, felt emotionally exhausted and upset all because of someone not able to regulate their emotional lability. If love means accepting it and enduring it for more of my life - then I concede that I failed to do so. I also envisaged my legendary and btw always accurate psychic powers to visualise that I could be her crutch for years, she could get better on all metrics, once in a better place I would be discarded as 'thanks, your services are no longer required'.

The once drowning dog that eventually swam back to shore... .

[BasementDweller]

Sounds like you got it.

Mine likes to come back later with a reinterpretation of what happened, so I wouldn't hold my breath if I was in your shoes. More than once I thought things went reasonably well, and then he picked it all apart and found fault in unexpected places. One time he quizzed me about our young adults. I thought he was genuinely interested. The next day he reamed me for talking enthusiastically about them. Mmm... .I am a mom. Note to self, don't talk very much about them with him.

Ugh, meandthee... .so frustrating to have anything and everything turned into grounds for scrutiny and conflict when you meant nothing of the sort. There wasn't much today he could misconstrue... .I think, haha. Really just a very quick hello, exchange of items, and a few polite "Thank you - have a good rest of the day, etc... ." He'll also be on his best behavior with his son there. I could tell by the way they were dressed that they have been working on the boat, or some other "manly DIY" project. He's typically in good spirits during those times, so it was a good thing.

Your post I can relate to so much, the anxiety spike, the worry of what will happen next - only to be faced with no fireworks, not even a fizzle - yet I spent the night before not getting a minutes sleep, felt emotionally exhausted and upset all because of someone not able to regulate their emotional lability. If love means accepting it and enduring it for more of my life - then I concede that I failed to do so.


I also envisaged my legendary and btw always accurate psychic powers to visualise that I could be her crutch for years, she could get better on all metrics, once in a better place I would be discarded as 'thanks, your services are no longer required'.

Hahaha... .Yes, it was pretty much like that. I worried a lot about it, and it was really just... .not much to speak of. I'm relieved. It won't ruin anybody's weekend.

I also feel like he might make himself present for a while, wanting to feel visible or important in some way, then maybe eventually disappear. I really don't know. I don't even know what I want. I know what I do not want. Conflict. So this was at least a step in the right direction.

[MeandThee29]

I also feel like he might make himself present for a while, wanting to feel visible or important in some way, then maybe eventually disappear. I really don't know. I don't even know what I want. I know what I do not want. Conflict. So this was at least a step in the right direction.

It's so hard to deal with the conflicted feelings, isn't it. I miss mine. I wish we could regain what we once had. However, our last face-to-face was highly destructive to our relationship. I've been discarded and vacuumed up so many times. Saying "enough" had to be done. I know he's disappointed that I'm not running after him, begging for reconciliation with no counselling and accountability.

Mine has talked about disappearing, but who knows.

[Cat Familiar]

Hi Basement Dweller,
Your story has been heartbreaking. I remember reading how much effort you put into improving your relationship and how much hope you had that things would get better. You gave it everything you had, but his mental illness proved to be too difficult a barrier.

My ex-husband transformed into a stranger after I broke up with him and began divorce proceedings. He ran up tens of thousands of dollars in credit card debt, told me that he was going to write a screenplay and get a half a million dollars, began neglecting his personal hygiene and looked and smelled like a street person and began creating elaborate lies that he seemed to believe.

Since all these behaviors were apart from the norm that I'd experienced over the years, I wondered if I had merely overlooked these signs of madness, somehow normalizing them in my mind.

I, too, became an object of his hatred and fear, when like you, all I wanted to do was to get along and be helpful. He ultimately fled the state before he attended his arraignment for assaulting his next wife. Years later, unpaid creditors call me (the Internet is forever) looking to track him down.

I think I was a moderating influence in his life all those years we were together. And without me trying to quash the bad ideas, the ill-thought plans, he has been free to fully be himself. 

I'm so sorry for the sorrow you feel. You did your best.     Some people are too far gone to live normal lives.

Cat

[empath]

Oh, empath, I can totally understand how that would have been really frustrating - having to look at that pile of stuff just sitting there, and having him procrastinate about it. How do you feel now that he has moved all his stuff? Is it a relief?

I've felt better since he moved the pile, but of course, he left some of his other stuff. He claims that he doesn't have room for them in his apartment; I've been moving some of his things up to a rarely used room.

The rest of the story is that he said that he wasn't going to go to church that morning - because he was going to move his stuff. So, I went over to his church because I had been invited by their pastor. H was using the church van to move his stuff and when he returned the van, he saw my car in the parking lot. So, he came into the service and sat in the same row where I was and tried to engage me in conversation during the sermon. My friends who knew what was happening felt sorry for me. He just acted sheepish.

I'm all for less conflict.

[BasementDweller]

Thank you, meandthee, cat, and empath for your replies!

Meandthee, yes... .I miss him so much. I think about him almost every second of every day, even though I'm practicing every technique in the book to do less of that. I also miss everything we had together, and particularly the memories of how funny, lovable, kind, and compassionate he COULD be. I keep thinking about that article about the ten beliefs that get us stuck, and the one about how we did not view the relationship the same really hits me.

He had a war inside his head the entire time, and was accumulating hurts and slights in his mind that were just piling up and destroying him (and us). Over minor details and differences of opinions that meant nothing to me and I had long since forgotten. I was mostly happy with him, loved him dearly, and only felt bad when he would get dangerously "moody" - but I never held grudges or let it pile up. He did.

Over the last year of our relationship, while I was busy decorating Christmas trees, making birthday cakes, buying Easter candy for the kids, doing laundry, planning meals for the family, loving my partner, planning for the future with him, and loving my life (for the most part) with him - he was telling his friend and probably family how terrible I was to him, how unhappy he was, how we were ALWAYS in conflict (we absolutely weren't) how "toxic" everything was - etc. This all lives in his head. That is his baseline sense of self whether I am there or not. I realize this now. I do not view life that way. At all. I don't sweat the small stuff. I stay positive as much as I can, and I appreciate what I have when I have it. He doesn't think that way - he can't. His mind is like a bad neighborhood that nobody wants to be alone in. But he always is - alone, scared, defensive - waiting for the next "attack".

I still love him very much, but cannot entertain the thought of a "recycle". He needs to continue with his therapy, and I will do the same. We need months of space (at least) and then I would, if he also wanted the same, consider having some "casual dates" and a friendship to see how it went. It would be baby steps, and a total and absolute "do over" - like, a brand new relationship, from scratch.

The thought of living with him again would be... .a very distant possibility. After years of therapy, and when his teenage sons have gotten old enough to move out, if ever at all. I don't ever even want to run the risk of them having to be subjected to that kind of chaos ever again. And even then - I'd have to assess if he really is getting control of his emotions and how he deals with them. He is participating in his therapy as he is supposed to, and doing it on his own without being goaded. That's good news.

empath - I guess it can be a really long, drawn out, frustrating process when two parties try to separate from a shared living space. Right now I have most of what I need and some stuff in the attic - or I'm letting the kids still use it, as I do not want to disrupt their existence and tear their bedrooms apart and take all my furniture back. That isn't causing conflict with us, it's just still the raw emotional stuff of actually separating. We seem to have a peaceful arrangement now with the matter of my stuff, and all that goes with it... .at least I hope. If we can have low contact/conflict free interactions regarding practical stuff, I'd be ok with that.

Cat, I'm sorry you had to go through similar. Maybe even worse in your case. My ex, while very severely dysregulated/dissociative (even psychotic) in the end still was high functioning and financially responsible, keeping his job, and paying the bills and mortgage. It was in his private life where he fell apart, though he did become a bit disheveled in the end. He is now better groomed, though he has completely changed his appearance.

It's so sad when we become the target of their hatred, fear, and paranoia, because we are typically the last ones left supporting them at their worst, and the ones who love them the most. The sad irony of it all is what is really heartbreaking. These people are very challenging, and those of us who rise to that challenge are the ones who get the worst of their rage and vindication in the end. And you are so right. I tried so hard to support him hoping we'd emerge ok in the end from this. I had these sappy fantasies that things would steadily improve, and when the fog lifted he'd realize that I had stood by his side through the worst of times, and it would strengthen our bond. Hah. He now sees me as a "tormentor" who is the sole cause of all his emotional misery... .forgetting he has carried it his whole life... .and even knowing exactly why. That's one of the many horrible things about BPD. He knows and even accepts his diagnosis. He knows his mother has it. He knows she abused and abandoned him. And he still believes right now that I am the one who makes him feel bad. Just because I failed to be able to "make him feel good" I imagine. At least not to the standards he wanted or hoped for.

I still have a tiny shred of hope in the back of my battered heart that someday he and I can sit in a restaurant, talk and laugh, and I'll look in his eyes and see happiness and clarity, and that the man I loved is still in there somewhere, and maybe managing his illness and finding some joy in life - more often than the opposite. If that's the best that ever comes of this, I will gladly take it.

[babyducks]

hi basementdweller,

lots of good stuff (as usual) in your post.     this is the part that stuck out to me:

He had a war inside his head the entire time, and was accumulating hurts and slights in his mind that were just piling up and destroying him (and us).

This all lives in his head. That is his baseline sense of self whether I am there or not.

He now sees me as a "tormentor" who is the sole cause of all his emotional misery... .forgetting he has carried it his whole life... .and even knowing exactly why. That's one of the many horrible things about BPD. He knows and even accepts his diagnosis. He knows his mother has it. He knows she abused and abandoned him. And he still believes right now that I am the one who makes him feel bad. Just because I failed to be able to "make him feel good" I imagine.

I agree with everything you said.   it took me a long long time to really get that my Ex was programmed, conditioned, trained to "see" and "deal with" relationships as something that was disappointing and doomed to failure.    She just naturally destroyed relationships because of the way she processed them,   the constant compiling of grievances... .the constant demands to fix, soothe and manage her emotions.    she destroyed relationships, often subconsciously,  because that is how she really believed, thought relationships worked.    she felt relationships should work like valium,  constantly euphoric, and when it wasn't euphoric or perfect in a story book kind of way it had to be destroyed.

what a sad way to go through life.    what a way to process the details of life.     as it turned out for me I see my EX a lot.  just like empath mentioned.     not my choice.   my ex made lots of decisions that kept her in loose contact with me.    she set up things so that we bump into each other at least once a week.   in public places.   outside my place of work.   I don't mind admitting to you that I struggled with that a lot.  It got so that I was afraid of her.    Not physical violence but the emotional churn that happened when ever I saw her.    I would see her in some public place and I would have these mini panic attacks.   I was desperately trying to get my emotions under control and her popping up like a dybbuk all over the place drove me nuts for a while.    it's better now,  I don't particularly like it when she shows up because I don't respect what drives that action, but it doesn't panic me.    it was really funny, and surprising to me, the direction my own emotions went once I was free from the constant pressure of the relationship.

how goes the self care?    what are you doing to be especially kind to yourself today?


'ducks

[BasementDweller]

... .it took me a long long time to really get that my Ex was programmed, conditioned, trained to "see" and "deal with" relationships as something that was disappointing and doomed to failure.    She just naturally destroyed relationships because of the way she processed them,   the constant compiling of grievances... .the constant demands to fix, soothe and manage her emotions.    she destroyed relationships, often subconsciously,  because that is how she really believed, thought relationships worked.    she felt relationships should work like valium,  constantly euphoric, and when it wasn't euphoric or perfect in a story book kind of way it had to be destroyed.

This exactly. And never having had a relationship of this kind before, I really didn't "get it" until it was too late. Now I get it with startling clarity and it's heartbreaking. I had no idea when I signed on for this that it would be such an exercise in futility.

I kind of have to chuckle a bit because I am more like the "stalker-ex" because I still live near my ex-pwBPD and still have stuff at his house... .

... .however... .

There's a good reason for that. When we met, I lived solidly on the other side of the city (on the outskirts) with a REALLY nice little flat near a lake with bike trails, a sand beach, everything. He wanted me to move in with him, and in order to do that, I had to relocate my entire existence to the total opposite side of the city, also on the outskirts. I moved all my belongings, including furniture and a big refrigerator to his house, intending and believing that we would be together for the duration. Two years later, I was forced to leave abruptly, and go from a four-bedroom house with a huge yard to a two room apartment. By now, I loved the neighborhood, was registered at the local health clinic for all my medical needs, and my direct bus line to work is here. I was not going to let his abrupt dysregulation disrupt the entire fabric of my existence - again.

So I took a place about a 30 minute walk/5 minute drive away so as to make moving easier, stay on the same bus route, and near my doctor and dentist. Now I have a bike trail and a lake with a sand beach again too! ;-)

So basically, having the rug ripped out from underneath me was horrible. I minimized the damage to myself by making this as "non-disruptive" to my routine as I could. And he has to keep some of my stuff. I cannot fit most of it here, (like empath's ex) but we have now civilly agreed that he and his kids can use it until/unless I want it back because I get a bigger place. We will arrange for him to return anything that I may want back at a time that works for us both. Since we will probably be having to transport items a few times here and there, this actually makes it easiest for us both. We know we will run into each other in public, and so be it.

My rationale in choosing this location and way of handling the split was:

1.) I uprooted my entire existence in a HUGE way once because he asked me to do that. I will not do it again.

2.) I like this area and neighborhood and it has become convenient and familiar for me. I will not let him ruin that for me.

However... .I know some people have annoying and disingenuous reasons to remain in close proximity to their exes, and will take every opportunity to annoy and harass them. I have zero interest in doing that, but have no problem with being in contact with him if he is civil about it.

Oh, one last detail. ;-) I told him that I had looked at two apartments, one of which was much closer to my office, but had a shorter term rental contract. (This one has no limits.) He suggested I take the one that was closer to his house, and also had a better rental term. So he had some say in it also.

So far, it's been fine, even helpful, but the awkward and funny thing is we go to therapy at the same clinic. Our paths have crossed in the parking lot. (He didn't see me.) There is a TINY waiting room that we could conceivably end up in at the same time. This has the potential makings of a bad "romantic comedy/horror movie". 

Self care is going a lot better than it used to, 'ducks. Thank you for asking! I now exercise daily, and today did my bike ride around the lake and some weight training. I also bought a new cookbook in the local language so I can start honing my skills. My lifelong love of cooking and all things culinary died with the break-up, but I am "faking it until I make it."

I'll go to dinner tonight with a friend. A MALE friend. (No, I'm not ready for that. I still feel numb and pine for my BPD ex.) But he's a very brilliant and extremely rational engineer type, and has the emotional warmth of a frozen fish stick. Which I find refreshing after all the BPD drama. Emotionless psychopath?

What a relief! ;-)

What about you? What have you been up to lately? Any good self-care tricks to share?

[babyducks]

oops  I absolutely do not believe you are "stalker-ex".    I love this medium where we can speak freely but sometimes it does have it's limitations.     I meant to say that I found myself running into my ex at least once a week, some times several times a week and found it difficult.   for a while it raised up all sorts of complicated emotions, and one of them was,... .surprisingly... .fear.   I never saw that coming.  not being the fearful type at all.

I've no idea where you live but the bike trail and sand beach are making me green with envy.

my favorite self care trick right now?    long hot showers.   I carry a lot of physical tension with me and the long hot showers get my muscles to relax.    I've been slacking on the physical exercise because of time and weather constraints.    it's been unusually and blisteringly hot here.   my other self care trick?   baseball games.    I go and sit at baseball games... .not because I really care who wins but because I get to sit still and not GO for a couple of hours at a time.

[BasementDweller]

Haha! No worries. I knew you weren't implying that, it was just striking me funny after reading what you and empath had to say that I am the one who kind of "refuses to leave the area"... .but I'm motivated by the fact that I want to do what is easiest for ME for a change, and not him. It has been blisteringly hot here too, which is odd, because this part of the globe isn't known for balmy weather - but nice scenery, however. I have been braving the heat to get outdoors anyway, mainly because it keeps me from terminal rumination.

Panting and sweating in the burning sun has been a nice alternative to thinking about my ex and weeping while laying in bed staring at the ceiling. 

Yes, I do the long hot showers here too. A little less so, due to the heatwave and A/C being a rarity in much of Europe. Maybe long cool-ish ones. 

I'm glad you have these great outlets... .baseball games! I'd have not thought of that, but I can see how it would be a fun distraction! :-)

[empath]

he was telling his friend and probably family how terrible I was to him, how unhappy he was, how we were ALWAYS in conflict (we absolutely weren't) how "toxic" everything was - etc. This all lives in his head.

My h was doing that too; his friend got really confused when I said I wasn't angry or disengaged and I had done things to get the situation back on a healthy track. His family hasn't invited me to celebrations or even said much to me.

Some of my favorite self-care activities are outdoors, too.

[BasementDweller]

Oh, empath... .

This hurts so much. At least it did for me. To learn that the person I loved and protected (because I didn't speak ill of him behind his back or tell anybody about what he was doing, or his disorderly behaviors) was putting me, and the relationship down.

His family has no contact with me now. I guess there's no reason to any more, and perhaps they do believe I was bad to him. They have no idea how much I actually loved him. And I still do, but it's futile at this point.

His best friend was also confused when we met after the break-up. He saw my side, and that I was rational and not angry or talking bad about my ex. Just wanting a peaceful resolution or outcome of some kind. It was then that he realized that the horrible things my ex was saying couldn't possibly be true. I was relieved that at least one person "got it"... .

It still wasn't much of a victory though. Even with all his chaos and insanity, I miss him so much.

[empath]

BD, it is so painful to me as well. Even the people who I've told much of my side to have compassion and concern for him; they don't think he is a bad/horrible person. My family asks about him, too.

H assumes that I'm doing the same kind of badmouthing that he is. He talked to one of my friends who have known us for a long time, and my friend got worried about me because of what he was saying. That's a good friend.

[BasementDweller]

BD, it is so painful to me as well. Even the people who I've told much of my side to have compassion and concern for him; they don't think he is a bad/horrible person. My family asks about him, too.

H assumes that I'm doing the same kind of badmouthing that he is. He talked to one of my friends who have known us for a long time, and my friend got worried about me because of what he was saying. That's a good friend.

That is indeed a good friend. I guess the little good that came of it all in the end in my case is that his best friend realized that the things he was saying were false, and due to his emotional state. It hurts that he said those things about me, and I still feel a sense of duty to be protective of him and NOT say anything bad about him to anyone. I guess that just comes from being compassionate, but also logical where he can't be - only emotional in these matters. Crucifying him won't solve anything, or make me feel any better.

I understand though, why outsiders might also still like the person - because they never really see the depth or insidiousness of the pain that they inflict upon their intimate partners. We stayed pretty isolated but the few times my friends actually met him... .they thought he was nice. But he wasn't raging and screaming profanities at them. Just as a pwBPD can be horrible when they are upset, they can be really funny, friendly, and likable when they feel ok. Other people often don't meet Mr. Hyde.

[Cat Familiar]

I understand though, why outsiders might also still like the person - because they never really see the depth or insidiousness of the pain that they inflict upon their intimate partners. We stayed pretty isolated but the few times my friends actually met him... .they thought he was nice. But he wasn't raging and screaming profanities at them. Just as a pwBPD can be horrible when they are upset, they can be really funny, friendly, and likable when they feel ok. Other people often don't meet Mr. Hyde.

Yes, and that's why we are drawn to them. Their Dr. Jeckyl side is often very engaging and lovely. It's hard to come to terms with the thought that they are indeed a package deal and we cannot only have the "good" side.