I feel like I was manipulated

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

I felt manipulated... .

I met her on a Thursday... .Then saw her again on Saturday during which time she wanted me to meet her mom...

Now during this time, and after, she made it clear I was the only person she was with since her divorce, how she doesn't have time to date, doesn't have one night stands etc... I believed this for quite sometime...

Then near the end of our relationship, she slipped up and started talking about the beginning... Then she just opened up...

She was with a guy the night before me from the internet, then  me, a different guy from the internet On Friday, me again, then her ex husband 2 days later. Having sex with everyone.  And that is just the first week I met her...  When she was living one state away, it is probably safe for me to assume everything was a lie. She literally cannot spend 1 night alone, and the role I played on that Thursday for her was probably not some huge romantic, love at first sight type thing she made it out to be, but more or less just a warm body so she isn't alone. And she still, to my knowledge, does this every night.

So perhaps instead of blaming technology, society, etc, it is best to look at her as an anomaly. It's always a bit scary and difficult to actually trust what people are telling you, especially after what I been through with her.

[Husband321]

I felt manipulated... .

I met her on a Thursday... .Then saw her again on Saturday during which time she wanted me to meet her mom...

Now during this time, and after, she made it clear I was the only person she was with since her divorce, how she doesn't have time to date, doesn't have one night stands etc... I believed this for quite sometime...

Then near the end of our relationship, she slipped up and started talking about the beginning... Then she just opened up...

She was with a guy the night before me from the internet, then  me, a different guy from the internet On Friday, me again, then her ex husband 2 days later. Having sex with everyone.  And that is just the first week I met her...  When she was living one state away, it is probably safe for me to assume everything was a lie. She literally cannot spend 1 night alone, and the role I played on that Thursday for her was probably not some huge romantic, love at first sight type thing she made it out to be, but more or less just a warm body so she isn't alone. And she still, to my knowledge, does this every night.

So perhaps instead of blaming technology, society, etc, it is best to look at her as an anomaly. It's always a bit scary and difficult to actually trust what people are telling you, especially after what I been through with her.

[JNChell]

Husband321, I can’t imagine how it must’ve felt to eventually find this out. Finding out that you had been lied to in that way. Nauseating, I imagine. I would feel utterly deceived.

She was with a guy the night before me from the internet, then  me, a different guy from the internet On Friday, me again, then her ex husband 2 days later. Having sex with everyone.  And that is just the first week I met her...  When she was living one state away, it is probably safe for me to assume everything was a lie. She literally cannot spend 1 night alone, and the role I played on that Thursday for her was probably not some huge romantic, love at first sight type thing she made it out to be, but more or less just a warm body so she isn't alone. And she still, to my knowledge, does this every night.

Disclosing this sheds a new light on the situation. I know how difficult it is to learn that the relationship came to be based on lies and deception. Thanks for sharing that.

[Cromwell]

Well lets cut to the chase, this isnt "feeling" manipulated - this is clear cut; you were lied to. Not a feeling, not being unfair; an established fact.

Im always careful to moderate my views as far as I can on this board but youve went through very similar to what I have been and I can relate, anyone who hasnt has the advantage of not dealing with the natural anger and distrust that gets infused in as a result - in short - cant empathise.

These feelings of distrust, are natural protective mechanims, even at the expense of causing a cynical view. It is in preferance to the alternative - repeating the same again. How many others on this site illustrate the same kind of posts

"i dont want to date again and attract the same again" theme.

From my own experience you have validity in the online dating game - but it has to just be approached the same way as if you were dating a woman that you had met somewhere with more background knowledge already attached. The prime concern beyond protecting against STIs is protecting against emotional involvement being encouraged too early - the link here on boundaries and revealing too much early on being an indicator.

I am ashamed to say and will admit here, that I allowed lust to override my personal judgements early on. There were signs that I ignored, blatant ones even, it was boundary crossing that I permitted and in time, reciprocated. If I had acted sensibly, I would have not got further embroiled not just in a relationship later on, but I would have realised regardless of lack of knowledge of PDs/mental illness to conclude that there was something seriously not right going on, and kept her away; its not that I didnt have plenty of other woman to choose from, but I let infactuation and partly - mesmerised - yes in some way fascinated by the unknown, was a hook that dragged me in. So it isnt all about external factors in my case - the have their place I dont discount their influence, or ability to enable this sort of thing - ultimately I had the power over my own actions and I chose to behave recklessly. It was simply a form of gambling at that stage.

Being clear headed and not in a vulnerable state I was in were mitigating and aggravating circumstances, yet no more than that. I did know better, but went along with it regardless. Acknowledging this is not about taking away a convenient excuse to shift the blame entirely on another, but its to acknowledge ive learned from it and future encounters if I choose to behave and act on that experience wont lead to a similar outcome.

The too trusting vulnerable, elderly victim of the confidence trickster may have been too trusting, might understandably become jaded at the world and adopt some protective cynicism - but hopefully in time has also gained experience. Its not a nice learning experience, but experience all the same. Sometimes bad things happen to good people.

[Husband321]

Mine was also very cyclical, and I keep  mentioning "sex", but it was more than that. Sort of a synergy she created through mirroring me.  It was as if all my causes were hers first.  And she was extremely passionate about all of them. The sex was so good because of the overall synergy.  Not a specific way she moved, or things she did etc.

She probably sensed I was a stable, working  "family man" type guy.  So she presented her self as that to me.  A woman who would just do anything if she had the chance at a stable family life again.

But the other, sercret side to her... .Downright scary.

Much time was also spent procuring parental rights for her after she was supposedly "screwed" by her horrible ex husband. A very long, but at the time believable story.

Turns out what she did to her husband and kids repeatedly over the course of 10 years was :

A. Drop kids off at school
B text her husband asking what he wants for dinner etc
C. Use that time while he is at work to fly across the country and live with a new guy she never met before. Not even saying goodbye to her young children. Simply vanishing. Could be for weeks. Days. Or months.

So that could have been in store for me.  Or anyone else trying to figure out a "BPD" woman or relationship.

I thank everyday I am single and free again.  


Edit:

Just to conclude, so I never knew of any overt cheating, but she did vanish on me a couple times. Always with some excuse that she is scared, needs to work on herself etc.

In the end it almost seemed like a game. To vanish, and then see how to get me back. When I was over it, she came with the big tattoo.(property of husband 322  "No man will ever see my ass again". The next time she handed me 100k, in cash, I could keep if she ever vanishes. And 3 months later she vanished again.

So it was truly bizarre.

[Cromwell]

Some of the stumbleblocks is about what perspective we look at it and theirs.

I can conclude from my world paradigm that my ex was manipulating me by badmouthing all her ex's, painting a picture of them being at fault.

Is it really that simple, or is it part of the pathology that they do actually fully believe it - regardless of how plausible it is. A form of self-lying.

What do you think she says, or more importantly - thinks - of you? Can you imagine being a fly on the wall hearing her relate a sob-story to the next guy, using you as a basis of sympathy? Is it just a complete intentional fabrication of events, or are they her version of a narrative that she has set out to fully believe within herself?

If my ex ever completes therapy to the extent of truly acknowledging the real facts of her involvement of her partners, past present, I would not like for one minute to even imagine what sort of emotional burden that could create on a person who has had not only to learn real empathy from scratch but then forced to confront it.

And here I thought spending 11 months post relatonship - where I feel nearly ready to move on - "single and free" with positive outlook renewed in life was difficult enough... .

ive came across one girl who exhibited a few red flags during dating - I made sure it went no further. Was she BPD, or anything else? who knows, who cares ultimately - she failed the screening test regardless of her attractiveness factor. It was a little scary, a bit triggerish - but I saw "ill person" in her eyes, instead of some calculating, conniving freak of nature. As said, the anger, the labelling, they are defence mechanisms in the absence of wider understanding. Ive stopped researching when I learned enough to establish not to take what happened to me personally, who knows, in her shoes, to have that illness, its hard to imagine I wouldnt be behaving the same way to alleviate pain/emptiness that I am fortunate to be ignorant of.

Sane people just dont behave that way.

[Husband321]

Same exact thing.

More or less she told me her ex husband was SO abusive that she had to leave as her life depended on it.  rugging her.  Raping her.   And I know for a fact she said horrible things about me to her mom, sister, a new internet fling and even her ex who she started talking to.

I was the cause of all her problems, and now that I am gone she can be a good mom again, be close to her family etc .  

I think , obviously she wouldn't tell people "I am a serial cheater that left another husband and child because I was caught". So her ex is ALWAYS going to have his name blackened.  I am not an expert, but from what I read they have an excellent moral compass, and something in their brain prevents them from feeling that deep shame for what they did.   Like a defense mechanism. And the easiest way is to go on a full rampage of lies to clear their own name.

As a side note, I think very few women are like men in that they can admit they cheated.  Men might be like "yeah.  I was dumb. I screwed up". Where as most women will not be able to do that.  It will always be the husbands fault that drove them to cheat.

I think in the end if she really believed I was this "bad guy", she would not keep trying to recycle me.

Also, when we talk about outside forces, she has no male figure in her life.  And her mom and sister are similar to her. So they kind of like for her to be single as well.  

Everything about her was about immediate proximity.  If she was in front of me now, she would be in love.  If she is close to her ex husband she would be with him. If she would have lunch with her single sister she would come back home doubting our marriage.  She could play the role of perfect housewife, or "sugar baby" with the 70 yr old men she would meet on the internet.  Now I think she says she likes women and has a gf.  It just depends on who she is around, at that minute, and she transforms into a different person

Ultimately that was another kick in the teeth.  oing all I could to try and help her, making her life better, my life going downhill, THEN to have her badnouth ne.

[Cromwell]

You can please some of the people some of the time, all of the people some of the time, some of the people all of the time, but you can never please all of the people all of the time. Abraham Lincoln.

Can you imagine what energy requirements involved in having to shape shift that much? The strain involved. Where the fault lines start to appear is having to simulatenously adapt. We all have our own respective interchangable masks - go to work have to adopt a different behaviours, but it isnt a personality remodelling - it is with them, it was with my ex and her identity disturbance trait. Maybe some pwBPD dont have this, it was evident with her. Know wonder I need a form of therapy - questions naturally arise -

"who" did I actually fall in love with?
"who" did I actually share my body with?
"who" is responsible to blame for hurt feelings?

My quest to find meaning propped up more questions than they did answers. At what point is it reasonable to call it a day, leave the enigma to the psychologists and sociologists other social scientists - just as I hope to become part of a layered cake of past relationships in her life - my own goal is moving on and in time, it becomes less of a "shock, horror" as it could become a blip in my relationship and dating experience. Fixating on it simply causes that blip to remain a peak. Our future relationships dont have to resemble a continuance of a Sine curve - its up to us, absent of bad "luck" the skills are there to screen out preferably, deal with secondary any problems in future.

If I encounter anyone offering me 100K after a week together along with tailor made sex life to my requirments, well I hope I can rely on a bit of rationale and enforced caution to override my own impulses and temptations of where that might ultimately lead.

[Husband321]

The most helpful thing my therapist said was "you can ask her what her dream life is.  ream husband. Dream home.  And then give her that magically. But the next day it will be something totally different"

That was 100 percent correct.  And made me realize the futility of trying to understand her. Or who she is.  Or what she wants. But not only that.  She would literally act on those wants on a daily basis is.

Even without cheating... .you could give her her dream home.  But then she hates it because of the kitchen.  Then redo the kitchen.  Then she hates the backyard and can't live like that.  Redo the backyard then she hates the location.  It's not even just with relationships.  It's with everything and anything.

[Cromwell]

You get a lot of people like that though, although BPD might amplify if there is that level of identity disturbance - wealthy people who get disconent at having just aquired one Rolls Royce, they want two, followed by that a race track and a garage full of supercars - peoples wants can continually expand like the universe.

Im with you on the evaluation though, I realised eventually that nothing would make her happy, things paradoxically got easier for me when I gave up, slumped in a corner and smoked weed with her all day watching mind numbing tv shows surrounded with tins of lager. She recently told me in our brief exchange of texts

"those were the best times".

My ex found being alone unbearable, but wether I made the effort to involve us in new experiences, hobbies, holidays - they seemed appreciated and enjoyed on the surface, perhaps they were for a short duration - she indicated at times dreams of living in expensive properties, prestigous careers - I relate that now to mirroring, my house is in the most expensive town of the country, she would denigrate my "middle class" hobbies one day, then want to involve herself in them as a route of taking over my friends or "networking" read that as sizing up the next target to hop towards. She "joked"/"tested" whatever, that she should get herself a boyfriend in my area - I told her in my own blatant way "it would never happen" - rooted more in fact than in replying to what was my "prior warning" of what her intent was. She went on to cheat with the local drug dealer and told me triumphantly "you were right - I would never manage it" - totally losing the point of what I meant, entirely fixated for months at the apparent "sleight" I had made.

Most of what went on was immature outbursts rooted in deep insecurities. Thats why in the end the "best times" was saying very little, drugging myself into apathy and ignoring her late night "come rescue me now or im sleeping in a bus shelter" messages - she always made her way back herself when I stopped rising to the bait. Yet the downside to this is a display of not being under any control anymore, being too assertive. So the usual summary still applies - cant win whatever you do.

[Husband321]

It's funny.  After disappearing on me and living in 4 different states, she called to ask me "why can't we just stay married and you let me smoke weed". She filed for divorce, I signed, and she still won't hand the papers in. Been 7 months now.

Even the weed itself was a love/hate relationship for her.  She would ask me to "monitor her weed smoking", and only let her smoke once at night, but then be asking me every 5 minutes if she can smoke all day long.  And she always told me she hated her ex because he bought her weed , which is not good for her.

One day in my basement she found my sons old crib... .This to her meant I was still in love with my ex wife, and was reason enough to break up for her. I actually read this in her diary of sorts on her phone.

So finally I was like "ok I don't really care.  Let's just give it away". At that point she started to pack it up, and then said "hey this is so stupid.  This is a great crib. Why can't we use this when we have kids.  It would be dumb to buy another one"

Everything seemed to be a test. And yes.  I could never get a grasp of even how to be myself anymore.  She asking to follow my lead, but won't.  Am I too controlling? Not enough? How do I word things for t to make sense to her? Am I too firm? Not firm enough? It was just madness

[Cromwell]

In itself is a very under-appreciated addiction. My ex has been smoking it since 13. She told me many times about stopping - yet it would alternate towards telling me she was going to go on a rampage if she couldnt have any. It was definitely a mood modulator and her being stoned was infinitely safer than becoming disinhibited with alcohol.

The drug addictions combined with the attitudes towards them (besides smoking Weed with her, id rejected everything else) on the one hand I was looked up to, at other moments my lack of giving her cocaine because it makes her feel good - would be enough to characterise me as bad and sufficient grounds to go and seek someone else who would. There are plenty 'enablers' out there willing to do so. They would be regarded as 'friends'.

Its hard to even put a label of psychosis on my ex, her concious moments have been more living in a cannabis induced haze or other mind altering substances had became 'reality' to the point where, the sober world was regarded as the psychosis.

Its helped a lot to write that out, any attempt to try and figure out behaviour of a person who has heavy drug/alcohol addictions is a difficult task - was a certain action on a certain day related to BPD or depression or was it simply a bad comedown from the nigveht before of a drugs binge. Ive seen marriages wrecked with the ex wives lamenting "he was the best husband in the world, until he touched the bottle".

I never once enabled her in that way, and whilst I got respect for it and seen as the stabilising boyfriend - old habits are hard to shake, I might have beaten up the first enabler, but it just made her more careful to seek it out more discreetly in future.

Husband, like yourself, I never knew what I was in for until I was knee deep in it. It gets to the point of walking away to a heavy emotional attachment. Id get labelled as a rescuer, enabler - whatever term - its not what I wanted, not what I set out for, not what was on offer from the outset and this is where I relate strongly with you - a feeling of being duped into a role unexpected. The love bombing being seen as an initial function creep embedded hook for becoming a caretaker. It can make sense to look at it that way, but with most things I believe its only part of the picture yet at the same time an important one.

[Husband321]

Husband, like yourself, I never knew what I was in for until I was knee deep in it. It gets to the point of walking away to a heavy emotional attachment. Id get labelled as a rescuer, enabler - whatever term - its not what I wanted, not what I set out for, not what was on offer from the outset and this is where I relate strongly with you - a feeling of being duped into a role unexpected. The love bombing being seen as an initial function creep embedded hook for becoming a caretaker. It can make sense to look at it that way, but with most things I believe its only part of the picture yet at the same time an important one.

That's a good way to put it.  I didn't want, or sign up for that either.

When in the midst of day to day life, it is hard to see the big picture.

That's also why I don't understand "high functioning" be "low functioning".

She was both.  And it was cyclical.

"My husband supported us for 20 years but is moody"isn't what we went through.


I asked many of the same questions. In my case I was lucky she had the means to move across the country. Also having a son makes it impossible for me to even consider taking her back as that would, I feel, deeply confuse him.

[Cromwell]

The description of her being forever changeable - to the point of minutae - all indicative to me of someone deeply unsettled within herself as the locus of the 'problem' it just manifests itself outwardly as changing furniture, clothes, appearance, location - my ex was forever changing and to tie in with your experience - having her in the company of other personalities absolutely caused her to adapt. Its what made it difficult to deal with, the instable 'character' it really is dealing with not my ex but whoever she just had contact with.

So why all this adaptation - requiring a brilliant level of perception focused towards another, as an alternative to simply being one "self"?

If I could ask her just one question, which subconciously has been carried from early on.

"what is it about yourself you dislike so much"?

That is the real root that has to be digged out in a long haul therapeutic environment - not my just being there to stabilise the behaviours that arise from it.

It creeps me out to this day the mirroring, the high level of self monitoring I realise was going on inside her every time together. Guarded and on heightened alert. The times spent together stoned - yes I can see that as her best times - drugs being a conduit to finally relax from that full time job - that constant energy drain on holding up the mask. It was time she could be 'herself' to the best of her ability.

The relationship really got "crazy" in the sense of her behaviour more controlling and damaging when I started to wake from my own stupor - started to take action on the red flags - she is more than aware I started to research BPD, thats likely when the anxiety levels hit. Id moved from repressing all that I had already knew - towards peeling away at the mask - no longer content falling in love with an image but wanting to know what I really signed up for.

You see projection all over this board, I got accustomed to a level of it which was non verbally agreed - ok get whatever issues out your system, let the poison out - I'll take it - but only to an extent. Then after all that - lets go out for dinner - role play what I thought I signed up for and well restart therapy tomorrow again.

The fact it went on for 3 years with a few deviations here and there was this -ultimately- unhealthy symbiotic transaction going on. Its why I believe everything gets sabotaged in the end, at the times when the best progress was made.

Introspection time (to keep it balanced) - I could have discarded her without a moments notice, had plenty of emotionally more stable women to choose from - I was in my own personal rut, I fit the criteria she consistently went for - guys who were perceived to be able to be 'controlled'. Controlled being; for whatever reason seen as safe enough to mimic their personalities without giving enough insight into hers. Its why they lasted on average, a few days, weeks, 6 months she would have got a good run.

the lesson learned in future is not to get into a situation not having the adequate skills or ability to handle. Sure I did a good job - considering the circumstances - but when it started to become hurtful, damaging, it should have caused an immediate change of course, "this isnt what you thought it was" - jettisoning 'love' or more accurately "falling in love with the idea of love" along with it.

[SerendipityChild]

The funny thing is that I saw the red flags but ignored them. Making excuses for his actions. BPD people are like drugs- you know they’re bad for you but you keep coming back for more.

[Husband321]

And the other thing that kept me in the relationship, or trying was that when looking at it from a different angle, many big things were close to perfect. I know it sounds ridiculous.

Couples often separate due to lack of sex.  Money problems. Different ideas on parenting , religion etc.

We had zero debt.  She was financially secure.  I was. Children healthy.  We were healthy. Great sex up until the last day. We never even argued or squabbled  on long road trips or Vacations.  Both athletic and enjoyed working out and sports together. Our children the same ages developing a strong bond. She didn't have to work which would have enabled her to pick up any hobby or learn any new skill she wants. And apparently some sort of strong romantic love.

So that led me to try and figure out the mood swings. It's amazing how the mind can create problems, and how this disorder can rule your entire life. The proximity issue, PMS, push/pull, cheating, weed or weed withdrawal, perceived slights she would want to divorce over etc.

So it could have been a dream life.  But it was a nightmare in retrospect.  I don't regret trying and staying at all. But st the same time I don't know of anything I could have done differently to change the situation in any meaningful way.  

[SerendipityChild]

And the other thing that kept me in the relationship, or trying was that when looking at it from a different angle, many big things were close to perfect. I know it sounds ridiculous.

Couples often separate due to lack of sex.  Money problems. Different ideas on parenting , religion etc.

We had zero debt.  She was financially secure.  I was. Children healthy.  We were healthy. Great sex up until the last day. We never even argued or squabbled  on long road trips or Vacations.  Both athletic and enjoyed working out and sports together. Our children the same ages developing a strong bond. She didn't have to work which would have enabled her to pick up any hobby or learn any new skill she wants. And apparently some sort of strong romantic love.

So that led me to try and figure out the mood swings. It's amazing how the mind can create problems, and how this disorder can rule your entire life. The proximity issue, PMS, push/pull, cheating, weed or weed withdrawal, perceived slights she would want to divorce over etc.

So it could have been a dream life.  But it was a nightmare in retrospect.  I don't regret trying and staying at all. But st the same time I don't know of anything I could have done differently to change the situation in any meaningful way.  

I don’t think there’s anything you could’ve done differently. A million times I’ve thought about the same thing- if I was only more understanding, patient, tolerating or generous. But it was the BPD. What a disorder- so horrible it ruins many lives and causes so many heartaches.