She’s not yours it’s just your turn

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

Just like men who are hard to find (the good ones) , that type of woman is saybis just as rare.I will agree with you , Pompous asses are not attractive ,which is why lots of RP theory needs to be placed aside .With that said in my specific case I needed to become that emotionally stable guy , centered and calm , not the mouthy bicep ass .I fear one thing reading your post though , I fear my present gf prefers to be lead .She has no will to take or share decisions and actually gets annoyed when asked .She prefers it this way and it frightens me,at first I believed she was being humble but the more time passes , no change.Even with a 10 year gap her being 30 she’s not close to the maturity of most at that age .Thats another hurdle I’m trying to figure out for myself , she let’s say likes to have a lot of fun

Hi, Shawn -

I can very much understand your dilemma where you want to be a strong person in her life, while you are struggling with her emotional lability plus all kinds of information, suggestions, and advice, some of it good, some of it not so good.

"I needed to become that emotionally stable guy , centered and calm , not the mouthy bicep ass."

Haha! Exactly! I liked your choice of words there. 

It is highly possible that your GF has times when she really feels like she needs to be rescued, and it can be hard to find the fine line between coddling in a not so helpful way, and "encouraging" - which is good. If she genuinely seems put out by having to make decisions, or like she wants you to "take care of her", she may not trust her own judgement, be insecure about certain things, and so she turns to you for some type of reassurance... .however, this can create an unstable power dynamic where she ultimately will resent it when she begins to feel engulfed. This is classic BPD stuff and really, really difficult to navigate.

My BPD ex was the one guy that I really had trouble with when it came to figuring out how to manage that dynamic. He came off as wanting to be "alpha" which I gently but firmly rejected. I wouldn't be steered that way, but I would listen to his opinions and thoughts. If I did not agree with them, I did not pretend to. It was that simple.

At first he acted so impressed by this - that I was a strong, stable woman that stood my ground. (Most of his exes were not, hence he got bored with them quickly.) Midway through our 2.5 year relationship, he began to feel insecure/inadequate simply because I was independent and self-sufficient. As I always had been. He wanted to be the white knight now, though, and I did not need one. I just wanted an equal partner.

Eventually, toward the end, he couldn't sustain it. The strength and stability that I had was a threat to him, and the devalue and discard began. I didn't have a fighting chance. He wanted a mother, a caregiver, a boss, an angel of mercy, a slave, a dominatrix, and a perfect human being that was all things at once, never misread or disappointed him, and always got it right. I am not. Nobody is. I believe I am a good person as I am and I feel bad that we couldn't make it. I couldn't be who and what he wanted, because it doesn't exist.

When we have a firm mindset about how we want our partner to be, and we get super rigid about it, that can cause an impasse and eventual failure of the relationship. What's the right recipe? Hard to say.

What I think isn't good though, is this "battle of the sexes" stuff. It's bad for both men and women. We shouldn't be at battle. Who wants that?

But we get defensive. Men and women get hurt by each other, and then get in their respective corners. "Screw these b!tches, they're only good for one thing!"

And the women will sometimes say the same. "Stupid knuckledraggers! They're all pigs!"

We say these things because we have been hurt. Usually because we wanted love and it failed. But how can we find love with such attitudes?

I can't say for sure how to manage the situation with your GF, but a good place to start might be with the validation and listening with empathy tools. When it seems like she wants to be led or is looking for guidance - ask what she needs from you. If she wants you to take the reins, suggest to her to do so herself, but in an encouraging way that shows you have faith in her strength and ability.

A good example is if she goes out with friends again, gets tipsy, and sends a picture of her partying, even if your first instinct is to correct, protect, worry, instead try something like "Looks like a fun time! Be safe, and I'll see you when you get home." It shows you care and trust her, but are still looking out for her in a supportive way. You may find in time that she's less rebellious, and acts out less, because you trust her and let her steer her own ship. Worth a try, at least. That's what calm, stable Shawn would do, I think. ;-)

[BasementDweller]

Just like men who are hard to find (the good ones) , that type of woman is saybis just as rare.I will agree with you , Pompous asses are not attractive ,which is why lots of RP theory needs to be placed aside .With that said in my specific case I needed to become that emotionally stable guy , centered and calm , not the mouthy bicep ass .I fear one thing reading your post though , I fear my present gf prefers to be lead .She has no will to take or share decisions and actually gets annoyed when asked .She prefers it this way and it frightens me,at first I believed she was being humble but the more time passes , no change.Even with a 10 year gap her being 30 she’s not close to the maturity of most at that age .Thats another hurdle I’m trying to figure out for myself , she let’s say likes to have a lot of fun

Hi, Shawn -

I can very much understand your dilemma where you want to be a strong person in her life, while you are struggling with her emotional lability plus all kinds of information, suggestions, and advice, some of it good, some of it not so good.

"I needed to become that emotionally stable guy , centered and calm , not the mouthy bicep ass."

Haha! Exactly! I liked your choice of words there. 

It is highly possible that your GF has times when she really feels like she needs to be rescued, and it can be hard to find the fine line between coddling in a not so helpful way, and "encouraging" - which is good. If she genuinely seems put out by having to make decisions, or like she wants you to "take care of her", she may not trust her own judgement, be insecure about certain things, and so she turns to you for some type of reassurance... .however, this can create an unstable power dynamic where she ultimately will resent it when she begins to feel engulfed. This is classic BPD stuff and really, really difficult to navigate.

My BPD ex was the one guy that I really had trouble with when it came to figuring out how to manage that dynamic. He came off as wanting to be "alpha" which I gently but firmly rejected. I wouldn't be steered that way, but I would listen to his opinions and thoughts. If I did not agree with them, I did not pretend to. It was that simple.

At first he acted so impressed by this - that I was a strong, stable woman that stood my ground. (Most of his exes were not, hence he got bored with them quickly.) Midway through our 2.5 year relationship, he began to feel insecure/inadequate simply because I was independent and self-sufficient. As I always had been. He wanted to be the white knight now, though, and I did not need one. I just wanted an equal partner.

Eventually, toward the end, he couldn't sustain it. The strength and stability that I had was a threat to him, and the devalue and discard began. I didn't have a fighting chance. He wanted a mother, a caregiver, a boss, an angel of mercy, a slave, a dominatrix, and a perfect human being that was all things at once, never misread or disappointed him, and always got it right. I am not. Nobody is. I believe I am a good person as I am and I feel bad that we couldn't make it. I couldn't be who and what he wanted, because it doesn't exist.

When we have a firm mindset about how we want our partner to be, and we get super rigid about it, that can cause an impasse and eventual failure of the relationship. What's the right recipe? Hard to say.

What I think isn't good though, is this "battle of the sexes" stuff. It's bad for both men and women. We shouldn't be at battle. Who wants that?

But we get defensive. Men and women get hurt by each other, and then get in their respective corners. "Screw these b!tches, they're only good for one thing!"

And the women will sometimes say the same. "Stupid knuckledraggers! They're all pigs!"

We say these things because we have been hurt. Usually because we wanted love and it failed. But how can we find love with such attitudes?

I can't say for sure how to manage the situation with your GF, but a good place to start might be with the validation and listening with empathy tools. When it seems like she wants to be led or is looking for guidance - ask what she needs from you. If she wants you to take the reins, suggest to her to do so herself, but in an encouraging way that shows you have faith in her strength and ability.

A good example is if she goes out with friends again, gets tipsy, and sends a picture of her partying, even if your first instinct is to correct, protect, worry, instead try something like "Looks like a fun time! Be safe, and I'll see you when you get home." It shows you care and trust her, but are still looking out for her in a supportive way. You may find in time that she's less rebellious, and acts out less, because you trust her and let her steer her own ship. Worth a try, at least. That's what calm, stable Shawn would do, I think. ;-)

[Shawnlam]

Pretty creepy that as I read your post all her weird statements during her emotional upheavals flooded my head .She often would say or do these things as an example :

Often when I’m being my calm self lately just as an example sitting outside on the porch or whatever she’d look at me and say “ ugh you and mister calm face then bite me” playful but very sixth sense disturbing.
She said very often I’m a lot like her father (someone who she wishes would have raised her because when she lived there he had rules where her mom had none).
She put me in her phone as sir ,to her a playful joke but still

Whenever she feels bad/sad / sick she can’t let me go wants me around her  asks me to call her

After sex She initiates often she will occasionally call me pig ,also she likes to be dominated ,but in a uncomfortable way sometimes.

When she just sees me reading or doing something she will snicker playful and say stuff like “ you and that face , mr “man” , then hug me and say stuff like ohh I have control over you to sometimes ? Like it’s a competition that just doesn’t exist given she effectively does what she wants

Also when I’m doing guy stuff with her sons like sports or whatever she will pull me aside and say “ it turns me on when you are so paternal”.

And the the scarier more disturbing things I’ll get from her completely random btw:
You are a nice proper man who doesn’t deserve to be hurt or treated like the others.
Why don’t you get mad at me just once I wanna see you mad at me what would it take for you to yell or hit me? <~~~ that one still haunts me
You deserve better than someone like me ,you are too good for me .

She often gives me fore warning of stuff she knows is not good to do but does them and will text very weird stuff right before like ( I love you,don’t worry, I hope you don’t get tired of me, I hope you know I’ll never hurt you on purpose).

This is going to sound very disturbing to people reading this and it freaks me out myself and I have huge issues feeling like this sometimes but I get the feeling I’m dating a 8 year old girl who acts out almost begging to be scolded or corrected... .very uncomfortable but being calmer now in front of her it seems her outbursts are less frequent.

All in all you weren’t far off with your comments as you can clearly see.

[BeagleGirl]

Shawnlam,

I'm resisting putting my $0.02 in because I think Basement Dweller is doing a great job representing womankind (by insisting that there is no such thing as a starter.  )

I do want to point out two things that I think you may want to ponder on.

1)  It is very difficult to pick and choose the messages we take away from our readings.  While we may think that we can say "this thing person X is saying it true but the rest is hogwash", we tend to lend more credibility to person X as a whole the more we ascribe to any part of what they are saying.  It's part of our cognitive bias.  I hear that the nugget of gold that you have found in your Red Pill readings is the message of improving yourself and becoming "calm Shawnlam", but I would challenge you to go through your posts and highlight some potential "hogwash" you have not quite separated from that gold nugget.  As some have suggested, Red Pill is not the only source of the gold nugget you want to hold onto.  Maybe finding other sources with less "hogwash" quotient would be safer in the long run.

2)  It sounds like you look at who you were before BPDgf as being more closely related to who you want to be again.  I would humbly suggest that who you were not only attracted but ACCEPTED BPDgf into your life and ALLOWED the transition to the less healthy Shawnlam.  Maybe it's because I'm in a retrospective healing journey at the moment, but I think that may bare some examination if you feel that you are working to get back to that Shawnlam.  You may not actually want to be back in that place and idealizing it may not be a good idea. 

BG

[CryWolf]

Shawn, i also felt like I was dating a 5 year old at times. My ex used to joke and say things like “I’m only 2 years old” in this cute voice and pretend to be all innocent. But after a while it became creepy.

Other times her behavior was off putting was during sex she said “tell me you love me, even if it’s a lie. No one has ever told me they loved me”.

You can imagine how her being my first real rs and first time having sex was a bit traumatic. Other times she used to say things like “I want you to yell and curse at me” I told her I’m sorry I’m not abusve like that. No matter how much it turned her on.

My ex however couldn’t give up her power in the relationship. She couldn’t be submissive no matter what. In the moments she would, she would take the power right back.

I’m only mentioning these experiences because I don’t want you to feel like you are alone here.

Basement and others have given you tons of support and we will continue that here.

My ex would also say things like “you deserve better” or “I will never leave you I promise” etc. one that stood out was “im scared I’ll hurt you like I was hurt”

[Shawnlam]

When and since I’ve been back together I noticed one of the main factors that you touched on in your post , and in relation to many peoples posts on the bettering board ... .we often feel alone.Dating someone with BPD causes many lonely moments especially during a push phase,it’s why complete attachment  is not sane in my opinion.A human beings emotions were not meant to be used like a yo-yo ,it’s extremely unhealthy to operate in this state.Often when reading in BPD a lot of suggestions I’ve seen people do is to “always be there” for them.That works to an extent , but once they walk away ,or cross a strong boundary like cheat , they need to be dropped permanently.Given the chances these individuals will do something like this are fairly high , full attachment in my opinion is not recommended.You can love them,care for them, but you have to put yourself first always when in a relationship like this.Now I don’t mean literally do whatever you want when you feel like it.An example of what I don’t suggest is along the lines of :she wants to go to this place or eat at this restaurant or wants to paint the house this color and all you say is no that’s going to be my way.Im talking more from a deeper mental /soul aspect .Always be prepared for the walk away,always be prepared to protect yourself when the inevitable happens and if it doesn’t for a long time , never forget it can be around the corner.Normal relationships have a similar risk but with BPD it’s amplified 100 fold .

Do your thing, maintain your hobbies and friends/family,work on yourself by exercise and education all first , then the time remaining you can share it.Most people with BPD kinda act like narcissists given they always put themselves first and it will always be about them.Makinh the fatal mistake of agreeing to this behavior is what brings people here and causes such epic level grief it’s heartbreaking to read .You can’t invest more into someone than you do yourself , it’s pure lunacy and unfair to you.To validate and be more empathetic to someone does work BUT there is a line in the sand from a common sense perspective.The minute “abuse” happens in the form of them leaving to go persue a new target, and major disrespect like financial damage to a high extent,lying in major ways that cause harm to their partners or children , all of these have only one outcome... .walk away.You are doing them no favors and certainly not yourself.If you try “working through that” you are just enforcing their behaviors to continue.There are reasons why people with BPD leave an alarming swath of ex people in their lives .All of what I just wrote is what I mean when I say I won’t invest 100% no matter how good the good times are/where/will be, always and I mean always remember the bad times and what can potentially be on it’s way in a minute/hour/day/week/month or year... .always keep your distance enough to be able to turn and walk... .may sound brutal but it’s just prudent and sound judgement in my opinion.

[Red5]

Late to the thread... .all very very interesting, and I can certainly relate here... .to many of the points made(?).

Hmmm... ."Red Pill life philosophy"?

I recently heard of the "MGTOW" movement... .I was out after dark in the bad part of town, listening to' two you.tube personalities... .you may have heard of them,
*Dr. Tara Palmatier & Paul Elam

I should not drink wine after midnight, and watch you.tube videos at the same time  !

always and I mean always remember the bad times and what can potentially be on it’s way in a minute/hour/day/week/month or year... .always keep your distance enough to be able to turn and walk

This is why they had lifeboats on the Love Boat !

This is a great thread !

Red5

[Skip]

We have some of that work here. These are on our "junk psychology" list, but everyone should choose for themselves what they think is the most healthy support resources. We just encourage everyone to carefully chose the foundation upon which you build your emotional intelligence and maturity.


Date: Mar-2015Minutes: 3:37
Video Short | Tara Palamatier
Full video: bpdfamily.com/message_board/msg12539682

Date: Sep 10, 2017Minutes: 6:52
Fuck Anger Management | Shari Schreiber



Date: 12 - 2012Minutes: 6:00
Lower your voice by breathing through your balls  | Elliot Hulse

[Red5]

Skip wrote: We have some of that work here.

These are on our "junk psychology" list, but everyone should choose for themselves what they think is the most healthy support resources.

We just encourage everyone to carefully chose the foundation upon which you build your emotional intelligence and maturity.

When you are down and out, looking for answers, explanations, and some kind of validation that you ain't crazy, .you may resort to looking for answers "down town"... .even if its toxic, and quite questionable in its presentation.

Like when puppy dog has heartworms, and the vet prescribes arsenic to "cure it"... .

Yeah, I will admit it right here, and right now, .I am a "user"... .... .of such resources.

Thanks Skip !  

Red5

[Shawnlam]

There is no cure all one way street psychology, the entire premise of it was man made and hence flawed.This isn’t biology, chemistry  or mathematics so to each their own beliefs , there is no desperation in learning new skills or ways of thinking.To be close minded to the information on this site would be just as foolish as to be closed minded to other ways or points of view .I have yet to see a win all theory that makes partnering with someone who has BPD work flawlessly.Anyone who has studied the complex b disorders pretty much knows that self treatment is usually the only true chance they will have and I mean by that ( they seek help themselves and seek treatment).Everything else outside of that is a crap shoot on what will work or not.I have seen no evidence any which way is better except obviously is someone chooses a completely ridiculous way like abuse , profanity etc.And that is why the best one can do “in my opinion “ work on yourself and care for them and love them as best as you can (without sacrificing).

In final I’m going to bring up codependency as an addition to this tread.You know what the big difference is between codependency and compremise? When lack of respect kicks in.Codependants will tolerate endless disrespecting which does two things 1: they dissolve as a human being feeling worthless ,no confidence, no self respect and are a shell of themselves at the end 2:their own partners (BPD or nonBPD)  don’t respect them either anymore .They know their partner will allow themselves to be stepped on and abused and hence attraction is lost .Even with BPD they will look at their partner and say “ there must be something wrong with him/her to let me do these things to them).
Proper compromise: the partner will do certain things to please the other person ,but never at the expense of their own self respect .Once that line is crossed they either call out the other person and tell them,punish them , or they walk away.

[Red5]

When codependents (codependency) tolerate endless disrespecting, ie' mental/emotional abuse... .three (primary) things will occur.

1.) They dissolve as a human being; feeling worthless, no confidence, no self-respect, and are a shell of themselves at the end.

2). Their own partners (BPD or npd) don’t respect them anymore.

3). They (the pw/BPD-npd; abuser/user) they now know that their partner will allow themselves to be stepped on and abused, fearing the loss of the abuser, .hence the immediate loss respect for the codependent by the abuser (#2), and as well any and all reaming physical/sexual attraction is lost.

Gospel !

Been there, done that... .and "never again" !

There is a saying... ."what does not kill you outright, makes you stronger by and by"... .well, I learned a whole hellava lot, and I have applied this life knowledge to my own moral, and emotional construct, and now its part of me, for keeps.

Red5

[Skip]

Red,

That Gospel might might be a little backward, like the idea that the descending of the railroad crossing gate makes trains appear.  

Why are people co-dependent?

Codependents generally seek a weak, younger, poorer or damaged person so that they will reap the continued validation of being the stronger one. The payoff. The reward.

Why would anyone enter into a relationship with a clearly broken, damaged person unless there was a payoff (or hope of payoff) that far exceeded the downside. What could that payoff be that is so compelling?

This is why NPD and BPD trait couplings are so common. A person with NPD traits seeks the validation and feels they are smart enough/strong enough to manage the weaker person/problems.

That is core question.

It get's more complicated when there is a marriage and children, etc. or in cases where the behaviors didn't manifest for years -  I don't want to oversimplify - but the basic issue is the payoff - the reward - not confusion about what destructive behavior is or how to end it.

Timmen Cermak, M.D. wrote Diagnosing and Treating Co-Dependence: A Guide for Professionals in 1986 and developed the candidate model for co-dependency for the DSM.

Skip

[Shawnlam]

Actually a narcissist can’t stand being disrespected it’s an utter form of insult to their false image and ego.Codependants are a different breed apart and have zero to do with NPD partners .Codependants unfortunately have less esteem and confidence than the already broken “real” self image of a narcissist.NPD get involved for the validation and manipulation of a BPD until the inevitable tides turn and the BPD slowly destroys the NPD.The difference is the NPD will leave the relationship way faster than a codependent by far.

[Skip]

Are you saying a person with NPD traits seeks the validation and they are smart enough/strong to manage the weaker person/problems AND know when to get out?

Is the BPD/NPD coupling (clinical text below) a myth?

The Narcissistic / Borderline Couple Author: Joan Lachkar, PhD Publisher: Brunner/Mazel; 1 edition (February 1, 1992) Paperback: 242 pages ISBN-10: 0876306342 ISBN-13: 978-0876306345

[Shawnlam]

There is no myth that NPD:BPD flock to each other like a moth to a flame , the issue  is your mixing Codependants and narcissists.Its obvious why a narcissist would attach to a BPD and vice versa,they feed off each other from a validation standpoint and an attention standpoint.It usually always ends in utter disaster regardless , given both of their fragile egos and lack of self image rises to the occasion at some point.What me and red were discussing were bonafid 100% Codependants who lack enough self respect to leave an abusive relationship with a BPD VS compromising in a healthy way but making the hard choices when or if it comes to that ( which it usually does with BPD)

[Ltahoe]

I feel this “alpha” male “beta” male theory and it’s popularization is fairly new. The theory may have been around for awhile. None of this crap was really popular in the early 2000s late 90s when I was a teen, young adult. I’d probably disregard most of the nonsense related to that If you want the truth though the Beta male ends up with the woman the alphas want more often than not. There’s plenty of threads out there where alphas are dumbfounded they got left and now their ex is with a beta permanately. However they think their ex and every beautiful woman would still rather have the “alpha” then the “beta” they chose. I have friends from back in the day that would have qualified as “alphas” sure they were smooth with woman. Basically narcissistic douches, really into themselves, I watched a few of them pick up women and they where completely egotistical, dishonest about who they really were it was interesting almost lost a lot of respect for them and deceipt that went into playing the game.  They’re mostly single now. What woman really wants a man that’s so into himself, is a fraud, and think he’s a gift, but really doesn’t care about his partner?

I would really think there’s a spectrum from extreme alpha to extreme beta, and the majority and most attractive men(personality wise) would fall in the middle of the spectrum. A hybrid of some sort some with more alpha traits and others with more beta traits not 100% either or. Of course from what I gather hardcore “alphas” think everyone less alpha then them is a “beta”. It seems like according to the theory being “beta” is also a bad thing. Again keep in mind the Betas almost always in the long run come away with the women “alphas” want, and think want them. I’d really ignore the whole idea seems like a game that immature college adults would play to see who can score most. Keep in mind their often trying to score with woman that haven’t matured and are putting themselves out their to be taken, not necessarily wholesome women. So in my opinion sure the young alpha wins among promiscuous young woman but not really in the more meaningful long term parts of life.

I’d have to say BasementDweller said a lot of useful things regarding the way woman think on this. They’re attracted to certain traits. Overall a man that can provide and can be emotionally available to them, meet their wants etc. not going to be a man that’s 100% alpha or beta.

I’d also follow the advise of the person who stated be a man and 100% invest in the relationship.  Learn to be yourself but confidently. Whether that makes you alpha or beta who cares. There was reference you you thinking that a woman in her 30s shouldn’t be out clubbing while in a relationship.  I agree someone that is moralistic and that values a relationship shouldn’t be engaging in going out and clubbing. Of course there are two sides to this coin. What some people believe is societally acceptable and what is morally acceptable. In my opinion based on my values if my wife were out clubbing on the weekends and getting drunk she would no longer be my wife, and she knows this and vise versa she’s not ok with me doing it either. So this isn’t really a Male/female thing. It’s whether you think that is appropriate behavior for someone in a committed relationship So if this is something your SO is doing and you don’t think it’s right you’ll have to adress this but from a reasonable point of view. Don’t feel guilty if you think it’s innapropriate, it might not be a control/insecurity thing but a moralistic thing. If she was clubbing when you met her and now you think you can change her this is partly your problem though as you’ve already appeared to accept the behavior from the onset of the relationship. Personally I’d take no interest from the get go someone that exhibits a a clubbing life style. Of course if she’s introduced the behavior out of the blue adress it.

Red pill I had to google that. Some of it seems legit just as some femmenist things seem legit. Keep in mind however many of those movements are involved with over the top one sided views. Just as a strong over the top femmenist that subscribes to every femmenist theory can be overwhelming to a man, I’d say that subscribing to every over the top red pill theory would be overwhelming to women.

[Shawnlam]

I almost forgot the last part to answer your quote why would anyone enter a relationship that’s clearly broken unless there was a payoff? The answer to this one is pretty straight foreword .There usually “isn’t “ an apparent “clearly broken” person at first site .Thats the main issue with BPD isn’t it? At first we are not expecting or evaluating the person in front of us looking for the red flags or a complex b issue .We are just trying to get to know them and it just so happens they are excellent at manipulation,mirroring call it what you will.Where codependency comes flying into the room is when we decide to remain in said relationship and get our respect trampled and do nothing but take it.Not everything or everyone wants “payoff”. , but being treated as an equal isn’t payoff or selfishness it’s the requirement to be treated like a human being (at a minimum).

[Skip]

Where codependency comes flying into the room is when we decide to remain in said relationship and get our respect trampled and do nothing but take it.

You say your respect has been trampled over and over, your GF is a liar, cheater. You know this a few weeks in. You knew it when you broke up. Why are you in your relationship? Do any of these "conditions" apply to you?

[Shawnlam]

Now you are just flipping around my answer to suit your agenda  but I’ll answer your question since it is valid to an extent .Youve read many of my last posts these few days , see a trend ? The trend is simple , I was broken and took all that disrespect at the beginning did I not? And where did that get me? Two breakups from me and one from her ? And then you wonder why I’ve taken to dramatic change? Now you have your answer , never again will that be accepted in my new mindset and frame  never . It’s called learn from your failure(s) and that sir I did ,just took a tad longer than I would have liked .

So questioning my different approach to life is everyone’s privilege thanks to the free world we live in.You can even question or doubt the co cents behind it, but until I see a wiser better alternative to the road I’ve taken , I’ll gladly keep driving down this one.It will always always come down to the obvious path for me  going forward ( focus on yourself first , the rest will follow and if can’t keep up it’s not worth it). Having been deeply involved with someone with BPD permanently took a piece of me away , that piece today I’d like to call gullibility.Having that taken way like an appendix may indeed have ruined my chances  of finding a perfect mate ( although I don’t believe in unicorns), what it gave me in return is a High definition vision of this foggy world we live in.
I don’t know of any blind person today who would refuse the gift of being able to see again do you? Knowing what’s an obvious “red flag” or “ sh$$ test” or manipulative tactic is a new skill that if I could package and sell I could retire by the weekend... .this I owe to my BPD partner .

[Skip]

     I don't think you answered either question.

[Shawnlam]

Sure I did I pretty much told you I was a Codependant at the beginning of my relationship and now that’s thankfully been put to rest .

[Skip]

Sure I did I pretty much told you I was a Codependant at the beginning of my relationship and now that’s thankfully been put to rest .

Neither the words "co-dependent" or "put to rest" appear in your post answer... .and I'm not really asking about things from 10 months ago.

I've read all of this thread and I'm trying to get past the hyperbole and understand where the "rubber meets the road".

You said "codependents (codependency) tolerate endless disrespecting". You have described your relationship and having endless disrespecting (repeated disrespect for 9 months and continuing all the way up until the beginning of this thread), lying, and infidelity.

You also talked about NPD and CoDependent reasons people get in relationships with endless disrespecting, lying, and infidelity.

You said there are "100 stories on here [bpdfamily]" of "So many good people with big hearts slowly being consumed by their SO".

So let's connect the dots... .you are in a relationship which you, your parents, and your friends (according to your last thread) describe as endless disrespecting, and with lying, and infidelity.   You are being slowly consumed by your SO. Your friends said you looked sick last week.

My questions are:

Why are you in your relationship?

Do any of these "conditions" apply to you?

[Shawnlam]

I’m in my relationship because we had a rehash after our month break on acceptable behaviors and boundaries.We promised each other things we would and would not do anymore and since then minus some infantile stuff she hasn’t done anything like before .Sonthats why we tried again. As for codependency,no I’m not that way anymore I learnt my lessons although very poorly and took a long time .

[Skip]

Do I have this right?

Q: Why are you in your relationship?
 

A:	Because I have a verbal agreement to end the 10 months of endless disrespecting, and with lying, infidelity, bar hopping, drugs, and BPD which starts  August 13th, 2018. I am in recycle #4 in 10 months.

Q: Do any of these "conditions" apply to you?
 

A:	Yes, I was codependent but that ended on the same day, August 13th, 2018. I am no longer "dying as an individual, no exaggeration" as I said on August 12th. I am changing.

From your earlier posts in this thread, the change is: I now understand that woman especially when ovulating will be able to sniff out the stronger (let’s call it alpha ) male in the room and be attracted to him physically. She will pick up on the stronger character,more calm level headed emotionally stable man with good physical attributes (proven fact)

I'm taking care of myself first and investing less emotionally - better myself , enhance myself, value myself , even love myself. .  I believe a woman will "love AND respect a man if he is a pillar of strength and expects nothing in return. I'm seeing this happen in front of my eyes with my girlfriend."

As for relationship tools for a pwBPD? "I use no tactics! I react and behave the same with her as I would with other women or men."

As for any the future occurrences of disrespecting, lying, infidelity: "It takes a hardened frame of mind (mindset) to be able to look into the eyes of someone you love very much (BPD or no BPD) and say to yourself  “I can walk away from this person if they cross heavy boundaries like trust, respect".

[Shawnlam]

Yup pretty much ,will it work out? Who knows

[Skip]

It's an interesting perspective after 500 posts here and 1,700 member responses.  

Just to give you another perspective, I'll try to summarize what members have be saying, with frankness, so that you will have two summaries to consult in the future. Some of this will be a little hard to hear and it may takes weeks to absorb, but I share it to help you. Please take your time with it. I encourage you to share both of these posts (as written, not paraphrased) with your therapist.

Have you made progress?

Yes. You have learned that extreme and disproportionate reactions when exposed to moderate levels of disrespect don't work well with people and you have given up the bullying and the breaking up/withdrawl reactions. This is a huge accomplishment.

You still have these feelings, but you are finding ways to channel them away from your girlfriend. You are seeking ways to truly tame them. You are realistic that this will take time. In the last two weeks you have connected with the thought that getting in touch with your masculine inner strength, self confidence will help you - that working on improving yourself is a good place to channel your energy - and releasing some of the expectations you place on your girlfriend will improve things. This is also very significant. Very good.

Your girlfriend has been positively responsive to each step in this journey. From her perspective you have become less domineering, less volatile, less needy. There is still a nervousness there and she has been developing tools to handle you (validation and reassurance). She has said as much. This is helping. It is also good.

I would question your belief that your discovery of your inner alpha male in the last two weeks and shifting your focus to her reptilian needs for a dominate mate is helpful. Her image of you is the one you have built over the last 10 months (not the last 10 days). I suspect that if she finds out that you are aligning with a cult that is centered around exploiting women sexually, no matter how you try to dress it up as character development, she will lose respect for you. As one member said, there are better resources for connecting with your inner man.

Is the relationship on a realistic trajectory for success?

When I look at your plan above, its very good in the sense that you see that you need to make some significant changes if things are going to get better.

At the same time, the plan doesn't look like a partnership. The plan relies heavily on her agreement to adhere to values and boundaries that you have set, some of which conflict with her values and desires. There doesn't appear to be an effort to find compromise or attend to her values. This is also the fourth time you have fully excused what you feel are relationship "deal breakers" and saying "this next time I will walk".

I also think there is a lot of "posing for the members of bpdfamily in your plan". People here invested a lot of time to help you. The rejection of the tools taught here seems to be more about devaluing the site because some members have triggered your disrespect sensitivities in the process of trying to help you see yourself. There is an undertone of hostility in parts of this thread and your previous thread. Hopefully, part of being a better man will be to become more understanding and empathetic and to better learn to de-escalate conflict (tools taught here) rather than escalate.

Why is my reaction/fears to perceived disrespect so debilitating and so present in my thinking and future plans?

It's likely you are on the narcissism spectrum (not necessary NPD, but with traits). This is not a terminal thing or a criticism, many members are depressed and many on on the narcissistic spectrum (or other spectrums). Although many people use these terms as an insult, these characterizations exist primarily to help people understand themselves and others better and identify things they can do to make their lives more fulfilling. Not attending to these deep rooted nonconstructive thought patterns will have a price.  Just as it has a price for people with BPD traits".

This is why you have these extreme and disproportionate (debilitating) reactions when exposed to moderate levels of disrespect. These extreme reactions are narcissistic wounds. You have reported them as dying as an individual. You friends and family have expressed concern for your health and wellbeing.

When these wounds manifest, your reaction is all consuming and often results in distorted thinking and self-sabotaging actions. Remember when you were consumed with thoughts that your girlfriend was having a fling with another man in the 1st-2nd week following her abortion. This led you to do counter productive things.

This is why your first reaction to any conflict is to dive deep into why you are superior and how she is inferior. You list your worldly attributes. You then detail her wide ranging failures as a mother, daughter, friend, housekeeper, and career person, and jump on her worthless friends , drunkenness, sexual promiscuity, brokenness

You have often changed your story to support your feelings of woundedness. When you are upset with her, you tell of her sleeping with other men - when things cool off, you reluctantly retract this.  You have cycled through this 4 or five times.

You struggle to see her side of life - empathy. Remember when you were unable to understand or emotionally support her when she became pregnant and had her abortion and didn't understand her standoffishness afterward.

Your recent discovery of new found enlightenment has come with a very clear tone of heightened superiority toward others. Over other members, the hundreds who you now feel sorry for/pity their weakness compared to you. Over women in general, who are best understood as breeding stock that can be scored by appealing to their primal instincts. Over pwBPD traits, who are broken and to be kept around as long as they can follow the rules.

This is why you have never been able to answer the basic questions of why you are interested in your girlfriend who clearly has different priorities and a lifestyle to you. The only positive things you have had to say about her is that her looks are 8.5 and she is 10 years younger. Look at your struggle with the question even in this thread with Reply #45. She is more than that.

I hope this helps.

Knowing our deep weaknesses is the first step to correcting them. I think you have started down this path, but be careful to not make it a superficial journey or trade on set of bad habits for another.

[Shawnlam]

Skip I’m not a parrot that’s going to keep processing the same information for you on a different plate ,if you haven’t figured out what I’ve been saying or miss matching information, best thing I can suggest focus on someone who needs it better on these forums ... .I’m doing pretty damn good lately,floaters are off so I can swim on my own.Ive been answering people who posted on my tread is all I’m doing .