Grandmother had Alzheimer’s. My mom was awful to her.

[JNChell]

My grandmother, fathers mom, eventually had to move in with us because of Alzheimer’s. She lived with us for close to 13 years I believe.?

My mom abused her. Looking back, she treated her like a child in her sense of reality. She screamed at her. My dad sat in his chair disassociated to what was going on with the exception that it almost got physical between my mom and grandma,
 
My grandma became lost of her mimd. My parents took her money while housing her.

She eventually had a severe stroke that I was alone for. I’m not being narcissistic, I was in junior high.

L

[Kwamina]

Hi JNChell

What kind of bond did you have with your grandmother? Do you have fond memories of your personal interactions with her?

It is very sad that your mother treated your grandmother this way. It's also very sad that your father did not do more to protect his own mother. Looking back at this, how did it make you feel as a kid to witness your grandmother being treated this way?

When it almost got physical between your mother and grandmother, what did your dad do? Did he intervene?

She eventually had a severe stroke that I was alone for. I’m not being narcissistic, I was in junior high.

I am sorry this happened to your grandmother after the difficult years she endured. Am I reading this correctly that you were alone with her when she had this stroke? I can imagine this being quite a traumatic event for you as a kid.

[JNChell]

Hi, Kwamina. Thank you for responding.

What kind of bond did you have with your grandmother?

It was very nurturing. I can remember laying my head in her lap while she rocked in her chair. She would rub my back. It was a comfort that I could find in a crazy household.

Looking back at this, how did it make you feel as a kid to witness your grandmother being treated this way?

As a kid? I don’t really know. The normal in our household was so dysfunctional. I felt sad for sure. I thought my mom was being a bully to a very needy elderly person. My grandma. She was losing her mind. She forgot how to use spoons and forks and my mom would ridicule her. It’s one of the most disgusting things I’ve ever witnessed looking back.

When it almost got physical between your mother and grandmother, what did your dad do? Did he intervene?

He did. He exclaimed that that was his mother. It was over grandma eating canned spaghetti with her fingers. I’m not sure what my mom did, but grandma said that she would “bop you over the head” if she ever touched her again.

I am sorry this happened to your grandmother after the difficult years she endured. Am I reading this correctly that you were alone with her when she had this stroke? I can imagine this being quite a traumatic event for you as a kid.

Yeah, I was alone with her. My parents were picking my sister up at the airport. My sis was attending college at the time. Grandma started slurring her speech. It was like she was talking in tongues. I didn’t know what to do, so I guided her to her bedroom to lay down. I just thought that she needed rest or something. I just didn’t know. I was by myself with her. I eventually heard a loud bang from her room. When I went in, she was wedged between her dresser and bed, naked. I got her up on the bed and wrapped her in a blanket. She was speaking in tongues and staring at her family portrait in fear. She was fixated on it, and held her arms in a defensive position. God, I haven’t thought about this for a long time. I soon called my neighbors for help, and they took over the situation. One of them sat with me for a while at the hospital. My parents eventually showed up. I remember not being able to sleep, and staying up and working on my car. I’m guessing that I was around 17 at this time. I can remember my parents asking me what the he’ll happened, but I don’t recall them extending any comfort. My grandma ended up in a nursing home. She never recovered and couldn’t produce coherent speech again.

[JNChell]

I was older than junior high, hence working on my car. Sorry for that.

[Kwamina]

Sounds like you had a great bond with your grandma indeed  In a sea of dysfunction it can mean so much to a child to at least have some positive adult presence in their lives, it seems that your grandma was able to provide some of that for you.

It definitely was very unpleasant that your mother ridiculed your grandmother like that. I am glad your dad at least intervened that one time, yet unfortunately most of the time he just sat in his chair in a dissociated state as you say.

Seeing your gradnmother behave this way, also not knowing what was going on and that she was having a stroke, is quite an unsettling experience I can imagine. I can understand you as a teenager having difficulty processing this and not being able to sleep. Your parents did not provide you any comfort, but I'm glad you had your neighbors there to help you with your grandmother.

You also mention your sister. How was your relationship with her back then? How did your parents treat your sister?

[JNChell]

Hi, Kwamina. Thanks for having this conversation with me.

You also mention your sister. How was your relationship with her back then? How did your parents treat your sister?

It was after my sister left for college that our relationship really started. It wasn’t possible while living under that roof. She began to invite me over for weekends. It was a 4 hour drive to Chicago. She was attending a college in the suburbs. We started having a lot of fun together when we were away from home. I’m wondering now if she was trying to show me more. Museums, excellent food, smart people and perhaps just a chance to relax amongst it all. She went for psychology, and is now a seasoned PhD that practices, is a professor and travels the world for conferences. I’m deeply proud of her.

The family dynamic was my sister being the Golden Child and me as the scapegoat. Somehow, she never became narcissistic. I spoke with Turkish in another post about this. My sister and I were adopted, and I wonder if the fact that my sister didn’t have the infant/mother bond early on is why she never really became enmeshed. I can tell you that my mom viewed my sister as an extension of herself, but somehow sis was able to keep a healthy stance. Today, we are very close. She understands my end because she deals with this type of stuff everyday.

[Kwamina]

Hi again JNChell

You're welcome, us parrots love talking you know

I am glad you have such a good relationship with your sister and that she was able to introduce more positive elements into your life after she left for college. Your sister has achieved some great things and I can see why you're proud of her

I spoke with Turkish in another post about this. My sister and I were adopted, and I wonder if the fact that my sister didn’t have the infant/mother bond early on is why she never really became enmeshed. I can tell you that my mom viewed my sister as an extension of herself, but somehow sis was able to keep a healthy stance.

Perhaps this is your sister's greatest achievement, remaining that healthy stance and being such a good sister to you. Difficult to tell why the one does and the other does not get so enmeshed. What I did notice growing up though in my 3 older siblings, was that from the very start my youngest sister clearly was the one who actually behaved in a healthy manner (she was considered all bad) while my oldest sister (considered all good) and brother were already very disordered. uBPD oldest sis and my uBPD mom are very much enmeshed.

[JNChell]

Hello again, Kwamina. I’m able to see how close my sister was to being enmeshed with our adoptive mother. She definitely held a caretaker role. From what I’ve gathered, this really increased after she left for college. I imagine our mom was reaching out more after Sis left. Mom was stuck with me (scapegoat) and our narc father. Our father also idealized my Sis. I wonder if her leaving the nest prompted this. The information says that it’s likely. I ended up living at home until I was 22. I had to return home once for a few months after moving out. They almost didn’t let me come back even when knowing I had been taken advantage of by my roommates. Perhaps they always intended to let me return, but had to place guilt on me for doing so. Just speculating here.

Perhaps this is your sister's greatest achievement, remaining that healthy stance and being such a good sister to you.

I really like this observation.  At times, we gently discuss the past. Our mother’s passing was very hard on my Sis, so I’m careful about how much and how I dig. Our relationships were very different with mom, and I respect her feelings and her experience. I won’t tread on that. She has been an empathetic listener when it comes to my experience and she is understanding. After I had become an amby on the detaching board, I asked for her professional opinion of this site. She gave a thumbs up.

What I did notice growing up though in my 3 older siblings, was that from the very start my youngest sister clearly was the one who actually behaved in a healthy manner (she was considered all bad) while my oldest sister (considered all good) and brother were already very disordered. uBPD oldest sis and my uBPD mom are very much enmeshed.

When did you figure this out? Was there a lightbulb moment, or gradual discovery and understanding through research? I was 21 when I confronted my parents about their abuse. I’m turning 42 soon, so it’s taken me 2 decades to get to where I am now. Some bad things have taken place. When you consider 2 decades, some bad things have taken place very recently. I guess I finally hit my tipping point. Now I feel like I’m in a scramble towards healing and recovery because of my age, my S3 and a hope that I will someday be able to find and participate in a healthy and balanced love life. I have to admit, the latter seems to be a lofty goal at this point in time.

Thanks for the interaction on this topic, Kwamina. It’s intriguing how a thread can start on a particular topic and end up at a place of introspection. I’ve found that the tools I’m learning here have helped me to help two of my close friends that are experiencing some pretty trying times. I really appreciate this community.

[Kwamina]

They almost didn’t let me come back even when knowing I had been taken advantage of by my roommates.

Did they give a reason for initially not wanting to let you come back? I can imagine your parents' behavior being a painful experience, especially after having had those negative experiences with your roommates. In what ways did your roommates take advantage of you?

After I had become an amby on the detaching board, I asked for her professional opinion of this site. She gave a thumbs up.

Glad we got the thumbs up!  

When did you figure this out?

From a very young age I noticed something was wrong. Even as a young child I was aware of the fact that the way my youngest sister was being treated wasn't right and I just could not understand why things were this way. My youngest sister left home (read: escaped) when she was 18, I was 7 at the time. I clearly remember being about 9 years old and thinking and feeling like I did not want to live at home anymore because of the way my uBPD mom, uBPD sis and narcisstic brother behaved and treated me. That feeling never left. The atmosphere in the house was just not healthy for a young child to grow up in.

Was there a lightbulb moment, or gradual discovery and understanding through research?

A big moment for me was eight years ago when my uBPD mom and sis both lost it at the same time on Mother's Day. Their behavior that day and the next few days was so extreme that as far as I still partly was in denial, I got snapped out of it for good. On Mother's Day I experienced a double 'Witch' attack from them, followed by total dissociation from my mother just sitting on a chair with her mind in another universe. It was very scary because I thought she had really lost her mind now. This had been building up for two years in which my mother's behavior was deteriorating. After these experiences I started looking for more information and when I read about BPD, I finally had a 'model' that explained what was going on in my family.

If I had really known about personality disorders sooner, that potentially would have been very helpful. I was familiar with the general term personality disorder, but I did not really know that much about it. I was 30 when I learned about BPD through reading an article and it was quite a surreal experience as it felt like my life and family were being quite accurately described by someone who did not know me, yet at the same time knew my experience very well.

Now I feel like I’m in a scramble towards healing and recovery because of my age, my S3 and a hope that I will someday be able to find and participate in a healthy and balanced love life. I have to admit, the latter seems to be a lofty goal at this point in time.

Nothing wrong with aiming high  One step at a time, one day at a time

I am glad you have found this place so helpful and that the tools are also helping you in other ways. I have found that the tools we talk about on this site can allow us to develop highly advanced life skills that a lot of people who don't study these resources often simply do not possess and do not develop. The tools have helped me with my disordered family-members but also in many other situations where I've had to deal with disordered or quite difficult people, for instance at work. I have a bag of tools now and that really makes a difference.

[JNChell]

Hello, Kwamina. Thanks for continuing the conversation.

Did they give a reason for initially not wanting to let you come back? I can imagine your parents' behavior being a painful experience, especially after having had those negative experiences with your roommates. In what ways did your roommates take advantage of you?

No, they didn’t give a reason. I just felt like a burden.

I came home from work one day and the roommates were just gone. I couldn’t afford the place on my own. It was a rural property, and they piled what they didn’t want in the pole barn. I contacted the landlord. He told me that if I could dispose of the pile in the barn and have the house clean when I left that he would release me from the contract. The confusing part is that my roommates were county deputies. Law enforcement. They were hardcore militant types,  i.e. they’d spray each other with pepper spray and describe to me how they man handled people that they had arrested with a smile on their face. Please don’t misconstrue my “militant” suggestion. I respect our military. I’m just trying to paint a picture.

I got snapped out of it for good.

You had a defining moment that you recognize. Of course you do. You’re the board parrot.  Thanks for opening up and sharing this here. My true defining moment is when my mom was dying from cancer. She was released from the hospital and hospice care was set in place. Mom was sent home immediately, but hospice didn’t show up for two days. My sister, dad and myself were left with a woman that was clearly on her deathbed without knowing what to do. My Sis had the reigns throughout all of this. Phone calls had no real info. Just canned responses as to why hospice care hadn’t shown up. Well, eventually dad thought that he was going to take over. He wanted phone numbers so he could call the care services to tell them to F off. That he would take care of mom. It became heated with a dying woman in the room. Sis eventually got him into the bedroom. She eventually shoved him down onto the bed, from what she said, and established control over the man-child. That night he asked long time family friends how he could write Sis and myself out of the will, which didn’t exist BTW. There were life insurance policies that were started when Sis and I were very young and likely forgot. It was a crazy night.

followed by total dissociationl

This is PSI, but I hope it’s ok to talk about S3’s mom here because this is where I first recognized dissociation. It was scary. It was like I didn’t exist. She would just stare at the floor or out of the window. I would ask her very important questions, but I wasn’t there. She didn’t hear me.

My childhood home life was too chaotic to have the time to try to see this stuff. Once I was removed from that environment, and after years of blocking it and trying to enjoy myself, here it is. Here I am on this site.

After these experiences I started looking for more information and when I read about BPD, I finally had a 'model' that explained what was going on in my family.

Kwamina, it’s unsettling that we even have to engage in this conversation. It’s unfortunate that we had to take time out of our lives to dig up this info. I think that it was a must in the cases of the folks on this site.

I started looking after both of my parents were dead. I was in a bad relationship during this time. I found narcissism first, and went from there.

Kwamina, thank you for interacting and allowing me a sounding board. It is helpful to get this stuff out. Much love.

[Fie]

She eventually had a severe stroke that I was alone for. I’m not being narcissistic, I was in junior high.

I am really sorry that you have lived that. That must have been terrible, and I can understand how still today it has an impact on you. The fact that you were so young only adds to the trauma, although I think that any adult would be totally shaken by it. Also I think that anyone, apart maybe from doctors or nurses, would have mistaken the stroke for signs of dementia. I know I would have.

Apart from that and regardless of how terrible this situation was for you and for grandma, I think your grandma was lucky that you were there. You mentioned your bond with her ... .she was lucky that the one person she loved so much was there at that time.

You are saying you are not being narcissistic, I'm not sure I understand ?


X

[JNChell]

Thanks for your reply, Fie. I was describing a “me” moment that was really about my grandmother. I was afraid of coming across as selfish. Sometimes it’s hard to describe things like this without coming across as self absorbed. Pile on top of that my current obsession with personality disorders and abusive traits. I can see how my comment would cause concern.

[Harri]

JNChell, your grandmother may have been the one to have a stroke but her having a stroke also impacted your life.  Talking about this as your experience is perfectly valid and is not selfish.

Don't be so hard on yourself.

[JNChell]

Harri, thank you.