Do the labels really matter?

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

Sure. For the first example, labels beyond BPD help us to deal with situations more effectively. For the no-win game, what's common with SOs is to explain away why they love their pwBPD. Or to explain in detail how they didn't cheat and the pwBPD has no reason to be jealous--whatever your pwBPD's 'pet topic' is at that moment. So when we recognise what's happening, then we as SOs may label the situation as the no-win game, it helps us avoid those hours of explaining away. It helps up turn off the tape recorder of our X-hour fights. It helps us to choose more effective behaviour for ourselves. So if this was me, I could recall that this issue is in the pwBPD's bucket. I could recall it's got nothing to do with me. I might even recall it preexisted our relationship. Then I may set a limit of 15 minutes of handling this (if any time at all), rather than getting entranced into explaining or managing away for those X-hours.

I want to highlight that it's productive for us to recognize the label for ourselves. It's unproductive when we label to the other

Hmmmm, so maybe I am actually using the label as I continue on my journey.  gotbushels what you describe above is to me using the label as a point of reference when you are interacting with someone with BPD which can be productive/helpful and I agree it is unproductive to label someone else, a label used in that way can become hurtful or used as a weapon.

Panda39

[Panda39]

Sure. For the first example, labels beyond BPD help us to deal with situations more effectively. For the no-win game, what's common with SOs is to explain away why they love their pwBPD. Or to explain in detail how they didn't cheat and the pwBPD has no reason to be jealous--whatever your pwBPD's 'pet topic' is at that moment. So when we recognise what's happening, then we as SOs may label the situation as the no-win game, it helps us avoid those hours of explaining away. It helps up turn off the tape recorder of our X-hour fights. It helps us to choose more effective behaviour for ourselves. So if this was me, I could recall that this issue is in the pwBPD's bucket. I could recall it's got nothing to do with me. I might even recall it preexisted our relationship. Then I may set a limit of 15 minutes of handling this (if any time at all), rather than getting entranced into explaining or managing away for those X-hours.

I want to highlight that it's productive for us to recognize the label for ourselves. It's unproductive when we label to the other

Hmmmm, so maybe I am actually using the label as I continue on my journey.  gotbushels what you describe above is to me using the label as a point of reference when you are interacting with someone with BPD which can be productive/helpful and I agree it is unproductive to label someone else, a label used in that way can become hurtful or used as a weapon.

Panda39

[gotbushels]

I did find direction through these labels
... .
It gave me direction and a clinical explanation to what is going on with me.

I'm glad to see this discussion is useful to you. It was yourself opening the thread and the members here that are helping you to find some direction from this--so I think you can be proud of that too. 

So indeed labels are useful sometimes--other times maybe not so much.

I admit that I have used these labels maliciously to hurt my ex.
... .
I allowed my emotions to control me during these times.
... .
My feelings were that I had made myself completely vulnerable to this person.

JNChell I'm not encouraging what happened there, but I do share that I understand a bit of what that's like. Sometimes when we're backed into a corner, we may feel like lashing out. In some ways when a person calls someone a name or 'labels' them, it's a way of defending (i.e., like in JADE) or counterattacking a perceived attack. You're aware that your behaviour here of labelling people isn't particularly effective for you. Perhaps it gives you something you want--distance with your ex? At the same time, I think you can get this distance without calling her names.

Are there other things that you can do when you're feeling those pangs of emotion, to get your objectives? What would your objectives be in those situations where name-calling happens? Meanwhile--from the non-side, I would like to give you hope that there are definitely other ways of handling a person we're upset with, without doing something that goes against the sense of goodness we have with ourselves.   

[JNChell]

Hi, gotbushels. Sorry for the delayed response. Thank you for pointing out what you have and for asking me direct questions.

I'm not encouraging what happened there, but I do share that I understand a bit of what that's like. Sometimes when we're backed into a corner, we may feel like lashing out. In some ways when a person calls someone a name or 'labels' them, it's a way of defending (i.e., like in JADE) or counterattacking a perceived attack. You're aware that your behaviour here of labelling people isn't particularly effective for you. Perhaps it gives you something you want--distance with your ex? At the same time, I think you can get this distance without calling her names.

I did feel this way. Something trivial, or a situation that simply needed an adult conversation to reach an agreement, would turn into a circular argument. A rage would ensue and I’d react. A big issue for me is reactivity. I’m currently working on this in therapy and on the PSI board. My fight or flight senses have been on high alert for a very long time, but that isn’t a subject for this board. But I understand why now.

I want to be clear that I didn’t call her names. I threw armchair diagnosis’s at her. I didn’t berate her with vulgar slang. That is her M.O.

We currently have as much distance between us at this time while still sharing custody of our S3. I haven’t seen her for months.

Are there other things that you can do when you're feeling those pangs of emotion, to get your objectives?

There certainly are. I can turn to the grounding exercises that I’m learning through my psychologist and implementing the tools that are available here. I can come here to explain what’s going on before I react. I’ve not interacted with these members as they’re busy keeping members afloat elsewhere, but  Enabler and formflier have some very well thought out and deep insight on communication with emotionally manipulative and abusive people.

gotbushels, this isn’t anything that is currently happening. This is me looking back at my actions. Well, it’s turned into that through this discussion. It’s been fruitful.

I wish that I had never thrown those labels at S3’s mother. I didn’t know then. I also didn’t know about my label then. I didn’t know what my label was capable of if I didn’t remain mindful of it. I do now. I accept it and I’m becoming very mindful of it in the moment. I never could’ve done this in a relationship like that. I don’t think that I would’ve ultimately survived it.

S3 needs a different environment as well. Now he’s got it. A calm and collected place that he can spend almost half of his time. He willingly involves himself in chores, we play together, I’m doing my best to gently introduce him to boundaries, we hug (or fist bump/high five/thumbs-up) in passing. I read to him each night that he’s with me. I don’t punish him. I see these instances that might garner punishment as learning opportunities for both of us. We talk it out and end it with a hug. He may get a time out if his emotions escalate to the point of communication breakdown, but once he’s calmed down, it’s the same resolve.

Sorry, gotbushels. I went off on a tangent. Thank you for chiming in and being direct. I appreciate that in people.

[gotbushels]

I did feel this way. Something trivial, or a situation that simply needed an adult conversation to reach an agreement, would turn into a circular argument. ... .But I understand why now.

Interesting sharing JNChell. Yes those circular arguments and how a non can somehow be coerced into argument--those are always a challenge, even with the skills I think.

I want to be clear that I didn’t call her names.

Ok.  

I can turn to the grounding exercises that I’m learning through my psychologist and implementing the tools that are available here.

Mmm yes. It's good you use these things to avoid arguments. Me too, I still use some of the things I learned from here--even with healthy people in daily life. They help to avoid arguments and get resolutions without skirting the issue.

It’s been fruitful.

  Good to hear.

I wish that I had never thrown those labels at S3’s mother.

I too wish I didn't jump in to JADE back then. It made things much more difficult to get through. That's just it though sometimes I think. The behaviours are supposed to make it difficult to see the big picture--subconsciously at that time. You and I are both wiser now and do things more effective for us than attacking or giving armchair diagnoses. That's a win for us.

S3 ... .Now he’s got it. A calm and collected place that he can spend almost half of his time.

Superb. Peace is such a gift and when we can provide that safe nurturing environment for a young person to learn--that's a gift given. Good on you.