Unpacking the emotional abuse "box"

[BreatheFirst]

This thread has been really helpful. I too have a box to unpack. I sometimes wonder if the abuse was enough to call it abuse. I like that statement about that I experienced it as abuse.

The quote about not being able to be angry with him rings true too.  Are we able to post examples of behaviour and ask for feedback?

[BeagleGirl]

BreatheFirst,
You can most definitely post examples.  I haven't done so yet, but this morning I had some flashbacks that I will probably share when I have a bit more time.
BG

[mama-wolf]

Last night, I had another bout of interrupted sleep.  I am pretty sure it was the thunderstorm that woke me up, but then I couldn't get back to sleep for at least an hour and a half.  I think it's the first time since my stbx moved her things out of the house that I have found myself struggling like that... .I had been sleeping much better lately. 

During that time, I had what I guess I'll call a flashback.  I am sure I have had others, but this was the first time that I think I was aware of it for what it was... .

I had this very vivid recollection of how my stbx would come into the room in the middle of the night after having fallen asleep/passed out on the couch (which happened nearly every night for the year leading up to our separation).  She would make a point to lean over and kiss my head, sometimes partially leaning on me, before settling in to sleep.  I would usually mumblet always woke me up too much to get back to sleep quickly, interrupting my own sleep for the sake of her desire to "show affection" (which was usually just an attempt to wake me up so that I would talk/interact with her).  I eventually asked that she not do that, explaining why and the impact it had on me, and she acted hurt and rejected, still disregarding the request on multiple occasions.  She even intentionally burst into the room one evening during the very tense period between the time that I told her we needed to separate and when she actually started staying at her parents' house.

I lay there last night thinking about all of this... .thinking about how much disregard for me and my needs she showed.  I guess that belongs in the box.

mw

[mama-wolf]

I would usually mumblet always woke me up too much to get back to sleep quickly,

I didn't realize that I accidentally cut out part of my text.  That should have said:

I would usually mumble a "good night" or at least a greeting, both otherwise really tried to focus on getting back to sleep.  But it always woke me up too much to get back to sleep quickly.

[BeagleGirl]

Deep breath... .

Okay, I'm going to show you a few of the items in my box.

dBPDxh started to use physical intimidation in the month before our separation and in the few times we met in private during our separation.  The first time was during an argument.  I had called a time out and gone into our pantry and started to organize it as a way of cooling down.  dBPDxh came in and started berating me.  I remember asking him three times to "please stop" but he kept at it and he wouldn't let me out of the pantry.  It was the first time in our 26 years of relationship that I really felt how much bigger than me he is.  There were two more situations where he trapped me before I learned to never allow him to be between me and the exit and one time where he slammed his hand on a table in a way that was meant to (he admitted this later) intimidate me. 

I've been listening to some YouTube videos by Patrick Doyle (deals a lot with emotional abuse from a Christian perspective) and almost all of them have some reference to the fact that change can't happen unless there is conviction, contrition and repentance on the part of the "offender" (I'm finding this is an easier word to use than "abuser").  He was describing what those things did and didn't look like and advising that the "offended" not work towards reconciliation until there was evidence of those things.  He mentioned that a contrite person never comes with demands for how the offended respond to their repentance. 

This morning I was hearing those words for probably the 20th time in 24 hours and all of a sudden they hit me.  I've had "head knowledge" that dBPDxh was showing me that he was not really repentant, but I still carry a lot of shame for not being willing to reconcile with him.  In quick succession I flashed back on the events mentioned above and a few others that clearly indicated that dBPDxh was not repentant, but this time instead of looking for what I did to trigger (or deserve) those actions I saw them as times when I was being given the gift of evidence that reconciliation wasn't within my control. 

My T told me that looking at these memories from the perspective of abuse would probably lead to some of my "story" being rewritten.  I'm finding that to be true, but in an unexpected way.  While I have continued to attend church and live out of a basic faith in God, I've kept God at a distance since 2015.  I no longer wanted to climb in His lap.  I've reconnected with God in the past few weeks and now when I remember those times I see Him in them.  I see Him standing between me and dBPDxh.  I see Him shielding my heart and gently keeping me from offering it back to dBPDxh where it wouldn't be safe.  I was so afraid to reconnect with God because I thought I would have to face His disappointment in me for not handling those situations better, but now I see Him hurting with and for me in those times.  It's hard to explain, but it's also helping me forgive dBPDxh for those hurts and release them.

Now for the big "reveal" of what is in the box that I'm definitely not ready to unpack.  In fact, I picture this as a sticky goo that can't really be pulled out intact and dealt with.  It's coating and clinging to some of the other objects.

Sex. 

I feel like I need to clarify that I think I have a pretty healthy view of sex in general, but there were a lot of hurts in that area with dBPDxh and I think I have a lot of wounds and some distortions on what the proper role of sex is in my relationships (assuming I ever have any that would open that wonderful activity up to me again).  I think that some of the things I experienced with dBPDxh could border on sexual abuse with a nice little twist of spiritual abuse.  As I said, I'm not ready to pull that out of my box, but on the off chance any of you have that in your box or have unpacked that already, I thought I'd mention it. 

BG

[BeagleGirl]

Yes, it's not bad to feel the outrage as long as you use it to heal. Mine completely ignores that I have reasons to not trust him. He says I'm being immature. Ah yes, another sign of abuse. In a healthy relationship, partners will respect that trust needs to be rebuilt when there is a major breakdown. We've been separated a year, and he wants to completely ignore that and start over like the past never happened.

I have "Why Does He Do That?" too. Very eye-opening.

MeandThee,
Have you seen any change in his behaviors?  (I'm thinking that if he's calling you immature, the answer is probably "no".) How often do you interact?

I remember watching for behavior changes all through our separation.  I would often initiate contact just to see how he would respond.  I got better about not doing that, but I did it often enough that I dubbed it "taking his temperature". 

Out of curiosity, why does he think you are separated? 

BG

[BeagleGirl]

For a guy, becoming angry is a great excuse for the woman to call abuse. 

Wentworth,
Thanks for joining the conversation.  I can only imagine that there is a whole extra compartment in the "box" when you are a man being abused by a woman. 

How did you hold onto/regain your right to exist as an individual when it was denied by your wife?

BG

[Cat Familiar]

As someone who had to go through the process of sorting out the emotional memory box after a long marriage to a physically and emotionally abusive BPD husband, what worked best for me was writing.

I had a trusted friend to whom I wrote long snail mail letters back in the day. It was awesome. I was able to re-examine the reality of a marriage which was quite different behind closed doors than what other people observed and I told the truth, no holds barred.

Of course therapy was also helpful and something my therapist recommended was incredibly helpful. It was a breath work seminar where all the participants lay on the floor, breathed according to directions given by the seminar director, while music played in the background.

My therapist had told me it was a great way to exorcise all those years of feelings that had been stuffed away. I was a bit skeptical, but I tried, nevertheless. I’m not an emotionally expressive person, but that afternoon I cried more than I’ve ever cried in my life and I felt emotionally drained afterwards, but in a good way. Cleansed, complete, finished with much of the past.

The other thing that I did was to repair all manner of things that my ex had half-azzed on the property: fencing, electrical, carpentry. That made me feel whole and renewed.

I wish the best to everyone recovering from these types of relationships and the one piece of advice I must share: Don’t blame yourself. Remember that even therapists with BPD clients need their own therapists to help them cope.

Also most of us who end up with BPD relationships tend to shoulder far more than our share of the blame. Time to point the finger at the appropriate target for a change.

Cat

[MeandThee29]

MeandThee,
Have you seen any change in his behaviors?  (I'm thinking that if he's calling you immature, the answer is probably "no".) How often do you interact?

Out of curiosity, why does he think you are separated? 

BG

We separated because we were fighting daily. He would say that it was because I wasn't making his needs my primary focus (note the narcissism).

Some months back when he was in town getting his things (I was helping), he said that I had to move where he is and break contact forever with the people here including our two young adults (yet more narcissism).

We didn't communicate for several months, and then out of the blue he emailed that he wanted to work out our differences and reconcile by meeting in between for a long weekend to work out things. Then he said that he has turned his life around and wants to treat me kindly. My counsellors say that the long weekend format with an abuser is a disaster even if he is "better" and want him to come here for accountability and counselling. He refuses of course.

I listened to Patrick Doyle again, and there's little contrition. Since then my husband has emailed things like I should be thrilled for the opportunity to meet with my beloved husband (note the narcissism), completely steamrolling over the need to rebuild trust. Another marker that I think I got from "Why Does He Do That?" is that my refusals have just resulted in more guilt trips and logic twists. He's not willing to let me make my own decisions and potentially walk away. He still has to win.

I want to do a reply this weekend to the latest email, and I'm expecting yet another discard. Oh well.

[steelwork]

Steelwork,
Are you struggling with identifying the behaviors or classifying them as abusive?

Gee, this conversation has gotten way ahead of my capacity to add much. The finer details of my r/s are actually getting a little hazy at this point, I realize (yay?), but here’s the best I can do.

We were off/on. Usually that meant that he would declare frustration with my unavailability and withdraw—either coldly or melodramatically. Then he would be back.

I would get these philosophical emails in which he expressed regret for being so hard on me. He would castigate himself (without, it now occurs to me, actually apologizing) for his “shaming” of me.

I would think: “What is he talking about? He was only protecting himself.”

It was only much later—months and even years after he was gone—that I felt I had some idea of what he meant.

It turns out he had a better grasp than I did of what I was entitled to. I’ve been in a few longstanding abusive relationships (another ex, who is still in my life 20 years later—and a mentally ill sibling, now deceased), and I guess my gauges are off where that stuff is concerned.

Yelling.
Blaming.
Calling me selfish when I try to attend to my need for peace, or when I decline to do something risky or flat-out crazy for the other.

My kryptonite: being called selfish.

[steelwork]

I keep thinking of the Alice Cooper song: “Only Women Bleed”

[Cat Familiar]

My kryptonite: being called selfish.

Yes, that was mine too--and it was certainly utilized by a number of people: my mother and my ex-husband really took advantage of that hold on me.

Now my current husband has tried a variation: self-absorbed and with the new understanding I have that it's normal for an individual to have interest in his or her own best interests--I readily agree--"Yes, you're right," and the accusation dies on the vine.

If only I'd known to tell my mother and my ex that I agree with their assessment that I'm selfish and "So what?" Really, their accusations were merely projections. 

[MeandThee29]

Yes, that was mine too--and it was certainly utilized by a number of people: my mother and my ex-husband really took advantage of that hold on me.

Now my current husband has tried a variation: self-absorbed and with the new understanding I have that it's normal for an individual to have interest in his or her own best interests--I readily agree--"Yes, you're right," and the accusation dies on the vine.

If only I'd known to tell my mother and my ex that I agree with their assessment that I'm selfish and "So what?" Really, their accusations were merely projections. 

Mine told me multiple times that I'm a narcissist. When I was more shakey I believed it, and then I asked my therapist. You should have heard her guffaw. She said that one my problems is that I wasn't selfish enough!

[Cat Familiar]

Mine told me multiple times that I'm a narcissist. When I was more shakey I believed it, and then I asked my therapist. You should have heard her guffaw. She said that one my problems is that I wasn't selfish enough!

   After I divorced my first husband I began therapy. I remember my therapist saying, "We've got to build you a self."  I think I was trained by my mother to be selfless and not in a good way. 

[Papa]

Hi, I'm just leaping in here, haven't read all of the thread. I left my wife this time last year, when I could no longer live in the situation. The last straw was when she hit me in the head and refused to let me leave the room for about five hours, just before we went on a family holiday. We went on the family holiday and I left the weekend we got back. My kids (D18, S20) were devastated. I feel awful for this. The week after I left, my wife attacked my motorbike (I'd bought it the previous year as a token of remembrance for my dad who passed away on my birthday, it was like the bike he had when he courted my mum. I don't think I'm very materialistic, but this was my most treasured possession). The following Christmas, when we were going together (at her insistence) to pick my son up on his return from university, she got into the car screaming all manner of abuse and threats to me, my family, my colleagues and wouldn't get out of the car. Then she hit me in the head whilst I was driving. This Spring, on the day of my daughters birthday, she had been lovely when I dropped my daughter to hers for the party, and again when I came to pick my daughter up and drop her friend back home in the snow (I have a 4x4). Then when I dropped my daughter home, she got agitated. As I was leaving she slammed the door on me and nearly severed my index finger. That was the last time we spoke or saw each other. During the days I was in the hospital for surgery and in the weeks and months of recovery, my wife never said or word or sent any message of remorse, regret or well wishes. Now we are getting divorced and she's 'surprised... .and hoped she'd have been given more time to come to terms with things' according to her solicitor.

But these recent violent acts aren't the thing. The thing is the years and decades of emotional abuse, where I knew I was desperately unhappy in the marriage. I left in September 2017. In October and November I was incredibly unsure of whether or not to go back. What gave me the courage to firmly close the door for good, was reading this account of emotional abuse, that took all the disparate problems I had experienced in my marriage and presented them as a clear, concise whole:
https://www.joinonelove.org/learn/emotional_abuse/

The day I read that, I knew I could never go back. I immediately contacted half a dozen friends and family members I had lost touch with and tried to rebuild my network of relationships and support, that had been eroded by the abuse.

And now, almost a year later, here I am. I think most of the 'abuse' is still in the box. I try not to think about it. I don't like thinking about myself as a victim. I feel stupid for not having realised what was going on years or decades earlier, for living with this S**T for most of my adult life (aged 25-50 through my marriage, with this behaviour a constant throughout). I can't believe I spent all those years blaming myself, bending over backwards to make things better (more money, a nicer house, a new car, new dress, the holidays she wants... .being more whatever you think it is she wants, in the hope she'll stop pushing you away and putting you down) and basically being a doormat. What would have happened if in the first year, i'd just gone 'Honey, this is not for me. Shape up or ship out?'.

I've tried to get counselling to help me deal with the abuse. The GP referred me to a local counselling service, but they said they really only deal with depression, and whilst I had some signs of depression, not enough to warrant treatment, and that wasn't really my issue. I needed help to come to terms with decades of emotional abuse. If I was female, there were services they could refer me to, but as a male, not so much. Eventually they gave me three leads, but they all just referred me around in circles from one to the other, like a pass the parcel no-one wants to open.

I've spoke about the emotional abuse with my sister and her husband at length. I don't really feel I can talk about this with my friends or family. I am getting on with the rest of my life and trying to rebuild myself.

But I feel somehow I need to open this box and deal with what I allowed to happen to me for all those years, and to get myself whole.

P.S. Full disclosure, after 18 years of this emotionally abusive relationship, I did have an affair with someone who treated me kindly and like a person who was worthy of respect. We ended the affair a long time ago, as I couldn't leave my kids.

[MeandThee29]

Papa, you've been through a lot. It's sad that you haven't found any avenue for counselling. It is indeed easier for women to find help like we need.

Not taking away from what other folks are saying, but I got an email last night from mine discarding yet again because I won't comply with his demands to meet alone with him and work out a plan for reconciliation. Every counsellor and therapist I've seen in last year said "counselling and accountability or NO GO." So I held the line, and there we are.

I'm very peaceful about that. I held the line and maintained my self-respect. As a friend said to me yesterday, sometimes the most loving thing you can do is to hold a boundary.

[Harri]

Hi.  What a great thread.  You are all showing uch great courage by looking at the things in your box.  I am still in the process of unpacking mine.  It is not the first time though.  I've done this before but rather than really look, I sort of squinted at the things and then put them back in the box.  This time around, i am taking my time and, I think more importantly, I am not putting them back in the box.  some things i no longer need and can discard but others I keep.  i keep them out in the light but under a protective cover (okay, I actually picture the items under umbrellas on a beach).  I protect them but they are no longer hidden and when i am ready to look at them, they are much easier to see.  I wanted to mention that because unpacking the box is important but you also have to think about what you are going to do with the items after.  Let them go?  okay.  Hold on to them?  Fine, but have a place for them where they are safe and easy to find.

I wanted to say that I am struck by how many of us struggle with the idea of being a victim.  Not so long ago I could barely type the word and when I thought it I would shudder.  My T used to try to get me to say "I was a victim" while looking him  in the eye... .I couldn't do it.  For me it was related to control.  Admitting I was a victim meant I had not control (I am writing this from the perspective of an adult child of a mentally ill mother and father).

Papa, I am sorry to hear that counseling is not an option for you at this time.  The good news is that you can do a lot by posting here.  For a long time i was not able to go to therapy (plus there was a time when I thought I did not need it!) and posting here and receiving all the acceptance and support was incredible.  The people also challenged me and gently pushed me to move along.  don't underestimate the amount of healing and growth you can achieve on this board.

Wishing you all peace.

[LightAfterTunnel]

dBPDxh started to use physical intimidation in the month before our separation and in the few times we met in private during our separation.  The first time was during an argument.  I had called a time out and gone into our pantry and started to organize it as a way of cooling down.  dBPDxh came in and started berating me.  I remember asking him three times to "please stop" but he kept at it and he wouldn't let me out of the pantry.  It was the first time in our 26 years of relationship that I really felt how much bigger than me he is.  There were two more situations where he trapped me before I learned to never allow him to be between me and the exit and one time where he slammed his hand on a table in a way that was meant to (he admitted this later) intimidate me. 

BeagleGirl,

I’m sorry that you had to bear this. I’m a 6’4” 220 lb man and my dBPDw was scary when she used to do this to me... .I can only imagine being smaller than the aggressor and how scary it would be.

Now for the big "reveal" of what is in the box that I'm definitely not ready to unpack.  In fact, I picture this as a sticky goo that can't really be pulled out intact and dealt with.  It's coating and clinging to some of the other objects.

Sex. 

I feel like I need to clarify that I think I have a pretty healthy view of sex in general, but there were a lot of hurts in that area with dBPDxh and I think I have a lot of wounds and some distortions on what the proper role of sex is in my relationships (assuming I ever have any that would open that wonderful activity up to me again).  I think that some of the things I experienced with dBPDxh could border on sexual abuse with a nice little twist of spiritual abuse.  As I said, I'm not ready to pull that out of my box, but on the off chance any of you have that in your box or have unpacked that already, I thought I'd mention it. 

BG

So I meant to respond to this some days ago but I only found time now.

If you don’t want to unpack then don’t. But you should know... .I.e my guess is that anyone who has been in an intimate relationship with a pwPD traits has quite a lot of sex-related items in their box.

I have no problem sharing some of mine... .in general her lack of respect for who I was/am just carried over into the sex department.

- She completely made sex a tool that she would operate how and when she pleased to obtain what she wanted.

- In 11 yrs, we went through 3 periods in which she withheld sex for over 6 months, two of which lasted around one year.

- Intimacy, i.e holding hands, kissing, cuddling, fore play, holding her at night (forget about sex) were only when she wanted it, which was very infrequent

- When my wife wanted “it” then she could be cold and awful at times. No affection. No intimacy. She would dictate and then become irate if things weren’t exactly how she wanted.

- At times she would almost be absent, literally I could swear at times that she was another person. Outside of sex, in stressful moments, she would suffer dissociative episodes. In these sex episodes her facial expressions would remind me of that... .as if her mind was somewhere else. She would have an orgasm super quick and then tell me to “hurry up” or something else horrible. A couple times after sexual episodes as such she told me that I treated her like a piece of meat or prostitute! That was a mind f**k in the moment... .

These are only a few snippets of a huge box full of sex issues.

Writing them here and now really makes me think why the hell did I put up with this for so long! At that time I wasn’t aware, I was scared, I had 3 children with her, and I did have deep conflicting feelings for this obviously hurting human being.

We did have a healthy sexual relationship as well, at least until toward the end. Unfortunately, sex is very emotional and this obviously is tricky territory for the pwBPD, so it was unstable as many other parts of her life.

Rehashing all of this out loud with all of you is making me realize how much I’ve grown and strong of a self I have constructed.

Thanks for listening.

LAT

[BeagleGirl]

Hello All,
I've been taking a bit of a break from my box the past few days.  As Harri mentioned doing, I've been looking at the things I've removed from the box and figuring out what to do with them.  So far the things that have made it out of the box have been transformed to a degree that I don't mind keeping them out in the open in a safe place.  They are serving as reminders of what I endured, why I left, and how a shift in perspective can redeem an experience or memory.  I've had the opportunity to share those memories with someone who has experienced abuse and was feeling a bit hopeless and it helped her.

Cat,
I loved what you shared:
"After I divorced my first husband I began therapy. I remember my therapist saying, "We've got to build you a self."  I think I was trained by my mother to be selfless and not in a good way."
I feel like I have a pretty strong sense of self in some areas, but there are also some where I know I need to form/reform that sense of who I am.  One of them is my attractiveness.  That is an area where I have had the message "not enough" all the way back to my FOO and it's one of the deepest wounds (and tied directly to the "goo" in my box) that came out of my marriage.  Today I was drying my hair and I looked in the mirror and spontaneously thought "I'm pretty".  It may seem small or even shallow, but it represents a victory in reclaiming the right to see myself in my own mirror, not that of others.  

Papa,
I'm so sorry for what you experienced and the difficulty you are having getting help.  Maybe you can get some therapy by proxy through this site.  One of my closest friends is in therapy and we often say that we owe eachother's Ts royalties.

"P.S. Full disclosure, after 18 years of this emotionally abusive relationship, I did have an affair with someone who treated me kindly and like a person who was worthy of respect. We ended the affair a long time ago, as I couldn't leave my kids."

I also had an affair after 19 years of marriage.  In a strange (and sad) way, I think that woke me up to what I was living in.  I ended the affair for similar reasons and spent over 2 years doing everything I could to repair and reconcile.  For a while it looked like this would be the wake-up call for dBPDxh as well and we would come out of it stronger than before, but the patterns soon reemerged and now he had the ultimate weapon - my guilt and shame over the affair.  My T has been nudging me more and more to look more closely at my attitudes and beliefs about my affair.  In the past it has felt like she was encouraging me to justify what I did based on what I had endured before I made those choices, and I shut that out because I know that what I did was not justifiable.  Now I am starting to realize that she's asking me to release the shame and have some compassion for myself.  I'm not exactly sure how to do that, but I think that unpacking this box is teaching me some of the skills I'll need to do that.

LAT,
Thank you for being willing to share the sexual component of your box.  I've started looking at that "goo" a bit and may come back and respond a bit more to what you have shared.

BG

[BeagleGirl]

I had another T session today. 
I've been reading a book called "Begin Again" by Leeana Tankersley.  There is a line in there that I have taken as my mantra.  She's talking about the way the concept of "Always we begin again" has meant different things to her through the years.

"In those days, beginning again meant learning and then remembering that things are mostly hard because they're hard, not because I was failing". 

I have condensed that down to "It's hard because it's hard".  For someone who has struggled with taking on the responsibility for so many things that are outside my control and feeling "not enough" because I couldn't keep it all from falling apart or keep myself from falling apart while trying to hold it all together, THIS is a concept I need. 

Today's session was mostly about catching my T up on the progress I have made since we last met.  Recounting it helped me understand how incredible that progress has been.  I know that a lot has shifted for me in a short time, but I also know that the work has been going on for a long time with less apparent progress.  At the end of the session I let her know that in our next session I want to have her look with me at the items in my "box" and help me figure out what to unpack when and how.  I know a lot of things will bring themselves to the surface to be dealt with in the proper time, but I like having a plan. 

Two things she left me with that I think might help some of you with your boxes are:

-The main reason she thinks I'm now dealing with my box is that I have reached a place of safety where I CAN deal with that box.  Even a couple months ago, I was not "safe" from dBPDxh.  Both the legal process and my own detachment process have provided a level of safety and stability that I wasn't operating from before.  When I start feeling frustrated that I'm not further along in my healing, that's a concept I should remind myself of.  Which brings me to the second take away... .

-Victims of abuse often are more "comfortable" with a certain level of pain.  When the abuser is no longer there to inflict the pain, she often sees the abused take over that role and set up some self-inflicted pain mechanisms.  One of the ways she sees that manifest is in a tendency to try to rush through the healing process and berate themselves for not healing faster/better.  Wow!  That rings very true for me. 

Thanks to a lot of encouragement from posters here and my closest friends, I'm learning to take breaks from my "box" and spend some time recovering from the hard work with more self-care and focus on how worthy/lovable/enough I am.  I've had a few days of that, so my pain level has dropped pretty substantially.  Unless something rises to the surface, I'm going to give it another week and wait for my next T appointment before unpacking much more.

How do the rest of you recover/refuel after an unpacking session?

BG

[Cat Familiar]

So glad you're doing better, BeagleGirl, and being kinder to yourself. You've got a whole lifetime to unpack the box... .and you can do it however you want... .as slowly, or as quickly, as it feels right... .and no need to push yourself.  

It's so easy to internalize the critical messages we've received from the pwBPD in our orbits, so taking the time to be kind to oneself is crucial. Who else will do it if we don't do it ourselves? And a very good motivation is that if we love ourselves first, then we will be less swayed by unstable people who attempt to love bomb us.

To quote an ancient Madonna tune: Until I loved myself, I was never loving anybody else.  https://genius.com/Madonna-secret-lyrics

Something I did after finishing my divorce from the husband from hell, is that I did a little ceremony where I symbolically married myself. I thought that perhaps I'd never marry again (little did I know then) so I decided I would be the perfect mate to myself that I never had. I even bought some household goods to replace some things that had memories from my marriage.

It really felt good and I reminded myself to encourage and support myself the way that I thought a loving spouse would do. And guess what? It became a habit. Instead of the internal voices criticizing me, I now hear messages of support and appreciation. Yeah, there's still "You could have done better, but you did try hard and you learned something and next time you'll utilize what you've learned." Believe me, a veteran of unremitting self-criticism, that if I can change that pattern, you can too!  

[XSurvivorX]

I've (finally) been able to read through this thread in its entirety (time, mostly).  This thread is AWESOME.  I never had thought of parts of my pwBPD debacle as something that may have emotions in a "box" yet to be unpacked.  Don't get me wrong - I've got a box alright.  I assume what is in it is mostly from the war, and definitely has things in there that I am not ready to unpack, if ever.  But I never made any linkages to some specific things and the part my BPD r/s had on me, that box, and life.

BG you seem to be making so many breakthroughs!  This is both fascinating and heart-warming for me to read.  Watching you folks all have such deep introspective thoughts on your own specific situations makes me proud to be here (as a newbie who is fresh off the boat, really). 

Sex - just my own two cents: I think this one can be hard for people to 'unpack' because well, lets face it - we're discussing our own personal relationships here, right? And a great many of us are discussing some really intimate details and feelings associated with the closest forms of relationships that we as humans have; these are very emotional, private, intimate things between us and the pwBPD.  The emotional aspect of that is very very private at times, and also can make us feel very vulnerable.

Sex is that physical intimacy act (duh) but, I think given the nature of how it emerges or is used in a pwBPD r/s, on top of the fact that many people hold their sexual thoughts and feelings very close to their chest, I think this part of the BPD r/s becomes even more difficult to process or 'unpack' if you will.

So, like LAT there, I can share some of my own insights or experiences.  I am not sure that sex is in my "box" because my wife and I have a very good, very healthy relationship in that regard.  But for my dBPDxw it was extremely opposite.  Sex was a big part of what lured me into the relationship, for sure.  I was sort of a late bloomer in life, so the sheer volume and intensity my ex offered was not only new to me, but it was also a crowd pleaser.

But... .she comes from an extremely sad, tragic childhood where sex was used against her from a young age; this resulted in her forming notions about what sex was and how she could use it to gain attention from men (older men - I am talking way, way older men.  Like a 30 to 40 year difference... .).  Craving attention she lacked from her family, confused about the sexual abuse she was undergoing, and afraid of being abandoned by anyone in that huge chain led her to using sex to try and "validate" to her partners her worth to them, to try and show them why they should stay.

So, even after getting this information from her (the abuse fact of, and some of the feelings - the rest I sort of analyzed and pieced together) how did we handle sex in our relationship?  Very similar to LAT in a way.  After the initial love bomb campaign, sex was her tool, used on her time and in her way.  I could tell at times that she absolutely dissociated during the act, but she would want me to finish even if I could tell that she even though she initiated it, she was not enjoying it.  Now, I found that pretty hard to do, because well, when you are in the middle of the act and the person just sort of stops responding, and they actually start to look like they don't want to be involved in this any longer... .its kinda hard to finish, and is pretty much a turn off.  Yet she would insist like "whats wrong why are you stopping? Just finish, its ok".

So we'd "finish" and then sometime shortly thereafter, I would get the very mild passive-aggressive "I cant believe you just did that... "  Well, did what? What do you mean?  "Rape me like that."  Whaaaaaaaaaaa?

So, now here we have someone who already has informed us of the sexual issues in her life, but using it when she wanted it in her ways, and sometimes (but not every time) then tossing that "R" word in afterwards? After she initiated (sometimes demanded) and insisted that you finish, least she rage about not finding her attractive, or getting it somewhere else, or being impotent, or homosexual [not that I believe there is anything wrong with that - but similar to a few convo's Red5 and I had, I guess it was supposed to be an assault on my masculinity in some way].

I guess for me, that is the mind F!($ right there.  For me that kinda treatment 1) feels like staging the scenario just to then be able to blame me, 2) to someone like myself, its an absolute horror and shock to then casually say "you raped me just now" because, well, you feel like you completely abhor yourself as a result, and 3) why did she just behave like that, and will that always be that way in the future? 

On some level, did she derive sexual gratification from that? If not physically... .emotionally? Another way of leveraging control in some way? I really don't know.  But these things, these inner desires and emotions we have when it comes to our physical intimacy with our partners are so, so very raw sometimes, that they seem like some of the most precious things about us that we want to protect.

For me it was offensive that she would capitalize on that aspect of our r/s in a way that sex was then weaponized. Something to use like a bittersweet poison or drug; you want it, she has it, under her terms she will let you sample some, but then it ends up hurting you anyways.  Because you knew it would be bad for you, but you just had to have some.

Did my ex (or anyone's pwBPD) know that for us, its a raw-nerve? That maybe sharing some of our sexual desires or needs made us so vulnerable that they could use that against us? Or, on the flip side, do their demands that we meet their sexual desires and needs in some specific way ultimately denigrate and humiliate us?  However it ends up working out in someone's own scenario, taint and toxicity surrounding an intimate act that we all should be able to share openly with our partners is some of the lowest of the low (in my opinion).

For my pwBPD, I think she knew that, and since she'd felt used before by many, she wanted to make sure you yourself would be used, vice her allowing herself to be used by you.   I dunno.  I think I sort of went off the rails with this reply BG, but it all began to flow out of somewhere, stream of conscious.  So I just went with it.  Apologies to the group.

[BreatheFirst]

I too saw the same things as LAT re sex. He was always pushing for it to be on his terms. He resisted foreplay and kissing like he just wanted the act of release most of the time. It was always over quick then too. He always wanted to initiate. When I tried most of the time I was rejected. I had never had this problem before with other guys. It never celt all that loving as he often did what he wanted and was annoyed when I asked for things a certain way. It was like he was annoyed at me. I don't understand why they are like they are about sex.