BP mother asked me how we can mend our relationship

[deadpansnarker]

I [23F] am currently Low Contact with my undiagnosed borderline mother, and completely financially independent.  I have been trying to maintain a casual relationship through chatting on Facebook, but I recently revealed that I was in my hometown visiting my in-laws, and she asked me why I didn't visit her.  I immediately stopped responding.

This morning she sent me a message:

"Please let me know what I can do to mend our relationship
I miss talking you and I love you"

Without thinking, I told her to look into counseling.

Her response:

"But what counseling are you thinking I need?
How to live without my daughter in my life?
Not happening
I think you are being cold hearted right now if that's what you mean"

I told her I need time to think.

"If I am able to at least talk to about how you are and what's happening in your life, I could take not seeing you much better
You barely tell me anything
It just makes me so depressed"

I feel upset and lost as to what to do.  I well-versed enough in BPD behavior to notice how blatantly she is placing the blame and onus on me, not realizing anything could possibly be her fault.  Clearly there must be something wrong with me (sarcasm)!

I also reached out to my father to tell him I need his help if I am ever going to have a normal relationship with my mother.

I have reminded myself that I am in control here, and I don't owe her anything.  I feel like it would be nice to be able to have a relationship with my mother, but I'm not sure that it's possible and I don't know if I have the patience required.  It's clear to me now that I still have plenty of grieving left to do.

For now it's back to radio silence but I really feel like I need advice on how to handle this situation.  Has anyone managed to convince their BP to go to therapy?  How did you approach the situation?  Am I wasting my time?

[Tregonsee]

Hi deadpansnarker.  First, my condolences on having to deal with BPD (as we all are doing here.) I did convince my BPD sis to see a psychiatrist once, long ago, telling her it would help her depression.  I also said I would pay for all of it so she would not have a financial excuse to refuse.  She went once, then refused to return saying there was nothing wrong with her.  And that is part of the problem with BPD - they think there is nothing wrong with them, it is everyone else who is wrong!  And that brings me to your second question - if your mom is anything like my sis, then yes you are likely going to fail to convince her to get therapy.  But, you never know.  I suppose you could try enticing your mom with more contact with you IF she attends therapy.  Also, I worry for your own health/happiness if you increase contact with your mom.  Even your limited contact is causing you distress.  But, only you can decide how much aggravation you want to put up with in order to have a relationship with your mom.  And unless your mom is 100% dedicated to therapy and changing her behavior, I think it is doubtful it will be a successful relationship (i.e. a relationship where you are not making all the concessions.)  I'm sorry to be so pessimistic, I have only my own experience to draw on.  BPD sis will never change.  And I will never have a relationship with her beyond an unfortunate financial one currently, designed to keep her away from our elderly mom.  Good luck to you whatever you decide to do.

[deadpansnarker]

I appreciate the response.  Don't worry about being pessimistic, I see it more as realism.  When I made the post I was experiencing an acute emotional response, but I think it's still important to acknowledge the effect she has on me.  Just because I know how to cope doesn't mean I should continue to subject myself to unnecessary trauma.

I told my dad that unless she makes major changes, I will not be showing up to any family events due to her past behavior.  He has admitted that his diagnosis of Major Depression is likely due to dealing with my mother and agrees on the BP diagnosis.  They currently live separately but are not divorced.  I pointed him toward the Stop Walking on Eggshells workbook.  I have little hope for my mother getting any better, and my younger (19) brother is in a bit of a codependent relationship with her, but I am trying to extend support to my dad within reason.

I just remembered that the last time I had a therapist, she suggested that I ask my mother to sit in on a session with me, and when I asked my mother she flat out refused.  I don't think I will continue barking up that tree.

[naturalturn]

Hi Deadpansnarker!

Oh wow, I unfortunately don't have advice, but I totally relate to you. This sounds exactly like something my mother would say! I guess I am in the same boat as you! I haven't spoken to my mother in about 2.5 weeks and it has been great. I'm starting to already feel better about myself and truthfully I don't miss her at all. However, I know at some point we will have a conversation similar to the one you just posted... .and I am absolutely unsure how I want to go about it.

In a dream world, I would like to have a peaceful relationship with my mother, but I logically know that may just be impossible. If so, than I really don't want her in my life.

Hugs to you and I hope both you and I can gain some clarity soon! 

[Panda39]

Hi Deadpansnarker,

I'm hearing a lot of FOG (Fear, Obligation, Guilt) or emotional blackmail in your mother's comments.  On the surface her comments seem completely normal... .she hasn't seen her daughter and misses her.  But there is really much more going on there, and you are feeling it.

The FOG is there, it's blackmail, it's a pressure, and it's an attempt to boundary bust.

You have set a boundary by going low contact with your mom... .good for you to instinctively do this.  Boundaries are to me one of the most important tools in our arsenal.  Boundaries are about our values and about protecting ourselves. 

You have every right to have time to yourself, and be a separate person from your mom.  Often BPD parents want/expect you to be an extension of them and we can become enmeshed, but we are all individuals and you are doing what adults do... .wanting to live your life as an independent adult.

I often share this simple analogy about setting a boundary... .

A little kid asks mom for candy, mom says no... .kid pouts.  Little kid asks mom again for some candy, mom says no... .kid whines.  Little kid asks mom again for some candy, mom says no... .kid has a full on melt down screaming tantrum (Extinction Burst). We've probably all witnessed one of these meltdowns at the grocery store.

What happens if mom gives in and gets the candy?  That little kid has just learned that having a screaming tantrum will get them what they want.  What happens if mom doesn't give in? The kid learns that no means no and he gives up. That doesn't mean he won't test the boundary and try again the next time they go to the store, but all mom has to do is be consistent with her boundary.

Can you see that your mom's comments escalate just like the little kid's pouting, whining, tantrum.

(Pouting/a mild nudge with some guilt)
"Please let me know what I can do to mend our relationship
I miss talking you and I love you"

(Whining/more pressure upping the guilt)
"But what counseling are you thinking I need?
How to live without my daughter in my life?
Not happening
I think you are being cold hearted right now if that's what you mean"

(Not sure if this is a full on "Tantrum" for your mom, but there is another upping of the guilt, with some victimdom thrown in)
"If I am able to at least talk to about how you are and what's happening in your life, I could take not seeing you much better
You barely tell me anything
It just makes me so depressed"

I also want to point out that she is trying to make you responsible for her feelings, you are not responsible for her feelings, behaviors, actions... .she is.

More on FOG... .https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=82926.0

More on Boundaries... .https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=61684.0
                                https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=167368.0

I hope I've given you something that helps, for me understanding the patterns of behavior are really helpful, in terms of taking things less personally and being able to react in a more constructive way.

It's been a few days, how are you doing?

Panda39

[sparrowfarfrom home]

PwBPD will also put you in an impossible situation. I learned this from my BPDsis.
She wrote a letter to me a year after my son's wedding pointing out how vile I am, how no one likes me, how terrible I was so my son etcecetc. She had obviously seethe over these things for a year.

I acnowleged her letter and her feelings  in an email I sent to her. I Tried to explain, mend fences (which she demolished)etcetc. 

Each point I made was picked apart, turned inside out, upside down and shot as a huge blame filled arrow at me.  My mom's BPD was slightly different in that she would constantly mis-remember sequences of discussions, conflict etc., and seize upon a "hurtful"thing I did. Blame blame blame from both.

So, that's why we go NC. There is no possibility of a healthy relationship.

Panda broke it down very well.

There's always a kernel of truth in there buried in a pile of garbage. They want to drag you in there with them .

[Panda39]

There's always a kernel of truth in there buried in a pile of garbage. They want to drag you in there with them .

 
sparrow,

You're right on the money here, that kernal of truth is "the hook" that pulls you in. The truth here being Deadpan doesn't want to see her mom as much right now, but also doesn't want to deliberately hurt her (or has been raised to have week boundaries when dealing with her mom) and that gets leveraged into guilt. 

Of the Fear, Obligation, and Guilt... .to me the biggest weapon in the BPD person's toolbox is Guilt or at least that is what I see in my situation when it comes to my SO's uBPDxw and their daughters.  My guess is of the three that Guilt is probably what their uBPDmom actually feels the most... .Hmmmm projection?

Panda39

[Star0009]

This sounds like exact responses from my Mom. I'm currently speaking with her but have been No contact in the past and even for several years at a time. Anytime I come back into her life all the guilt is placed on me, she takes no responsibility for her abuse and starts running all over me. Even after I left her home after serious daily physical abuse at age 12 I called her after guilt trips from my sister living with her still after two years of not speaking. When she asked me why I wasn't talking to her I reminded her of all the physical abuse and she gasped and said "yr father snuck into your room at night and whispered that in your ear." Then she laid a guilt trip on me. I went to see her and she left me right away to go on a date with her man of the week and babysit his kid all night.
She has only gone to therapy over the years with men to try to keep them, never to work on any of her own issues.
I can't call her on any of her issues or constant bad behavior or I get rage and paybacks so I have a very fake surface value relationship with her where I have to stay patient at all times, nice and detached somewhat.
It is very hard I have heard to get people with personality disorders into treatment, especially to face the issues they really need to face. I know it is a way lost cause with my Mom.  The most well trained therapist I ever saw actually refused to see me when I let my Mom back into my life as she can stir up a storm all around me. I understand the guilt but keep your boundaries. I'm envious of your ability to stay no contact when needed. I wish I was stronger.My Mom likes to think she can change everyone else and everyone else is always at fault. I have learned you can only work on yourself.

[sparrowfarfrom home]

Star,
I very much understand your pain.
There are many tools here on this site and many caring people to help u on  your journey.

Do not give up. Stay here and learn. This takes time... .and over time we gain wisdom.

 You  will have so much support ! We are here for you.