The End Of My Marriage

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Today, I told my wife that I have been unhappy in our marriage for some time and that there is somebody else I am interested in. It has been awful and painful.

[RomanticFool]

Today, I told my wife that I have been unhappy in our marriage for some time and that there is somebody else I am interested in. It has been awful and painful.

[Panda39]

RomanticFool,

I'm usually more of a lurker on this board, but wanted to acknowledge that this is hard and this is painful for both of you.  I am however, very proud of you for being honest your wife deserves that and I believe honesty is healthier for you as well. 

Do you want to tell us more about what happened? 

Panda39

[spero]

Hi there RomanticFool,

Today, I told my wife that I have been unhappy in our marriage for some time and that there is somebody else I am interested in. It has been awful and painful.

This must have been tough for you to be in such a state. How did you break the news and is she reacting to what you've said?

Yours,
Spero

[Gemsforeyes]

Dear RF-

I am sure this was a painful and sad discussion, and I don’t believe your unhappiness at this point has anything to do with a third party (another woman - the AA woman).  I really hope, in light of AA woman’s behavior toward you (push/pulll) last week, that you will take a break and focus ONLY on whatever path you and your wife will be moving along.

I want to strongly and lovingly encourage you to see a therapist.  I have read all your posts and first you said yes, and then no to therapy.  Please RF... .I need to tell you just a bit about me for a sec (tried to PM you, but system failed?).  I was so deeply depressed from 2/18 on when my closest friend died suddenly, uBPDbf went off the rails days later and I had to let him go.  Starting in mid 2/18, I realized I had been depressed for years... .years.  Worked for months trying to get a therapist.  Became suicidal.  Planned my exit.  Very thoughtful, as usual.  Looked into my dog’s eyes... .couldn’t do it.  Had a bona fide health scare.  Spoke to my old therapist from years ago in another state.  Listened to a description about codependent traits.  Attended a telephone CODA phone meeting (now do that weekly).  Finally Found a therapist.  I’m three weeks into therapy and seriously, the depression has LIFTED.  NO medication.  I am OFF my anxiety meds. My home is spotless.  I am determined to find my happy.

RF-  I am strong.  But what was/is inside me is so deep, that I cannot do this/heal this on my own.  I need help.  We all do.

Reaching out here is wonderful.  Sometimes I am not strong enough to do it, for myself.  I need to get better at it.

In this process of honesty with your wife, maybe you’ll find that working with a therapist WILL bring you to know your wife more deeply.  And who knows, you may come to love her in a way that surprises you.  But to do that, you’ll need to clear the deck of all outside people.  Are you willing to do that?  For you?  For your wife?  Give your marriage the chance it hasn’t had yet? 

And if not for your marriage, you will learn about your ways of attaching to women - are you healthy in your method of attachment?  I know from this day on, you want to be healthy and stable with each step forward.  A good therapist can guide you on that journey.

Just a few thoughts... .

Warmly,
Gemsforeyes

[Wicker Man]

Gemsforeyes well said.

[RomanticFool]

Hi all,

Thank you all for your feedback. I'm sure some of you on here think I am a hopeless case of repeating the same mistakes time and again. I must say I do feel my behaviour is far wide of my own moral compass that it makes my head spin. In fact, I once used the monicker 'headinaspin' on here and it feels completely apt.

However, I have to report, after a circuitous route of ill advised liaisons and fear in addressing the issues with my wife, on Sunday I finally plucked up the courage to address our lack of intimacy. I told her there was somebody in AA that I had a 'crush' on and that I had not slept with her. I told my wife that I considered this to be a symptom of a deeper problem and that I felt it was time to address the issue.

What followed has been both profoundly devastating but necessary. We have both cried tears of fear and regret since Sunday - me more so than her. I told her that I am willing to try to save the marriage if she wanted to but she said I am simply backtracking from my original position which is that I am unhappy and that it has been affecting my mental health. I asked her why she isn't fighting for the marriage and she said she didn't think it was salvageable. I asked her if she loved me and she said she does but she doesn't see that our intimacy problem is going to change. I assured her that nothing had happened with the other woman and I repeated that it is simply a symptom of a problem in our marriage rather than being the cause. She agreed with that position but said she doesn't think we could save our marriage . I saw the love and trust ebb out of her eyes.

The fact of the matter is that we have both been culpable in denying ourselves the intimacy we need to make the relationship work. Yes, I have behaved reprehensibly and I assure you all that I am suffering guilt as a result of my behaviour. It is also true that had I put all of the energy into trying to save my marriage rather than chase my ex uBPD lover than perhaps we would have been on the road to salvation. However, I didn't because the fact of the matter is my wife simply doesn't have the passion. It hit me like a ton of bricks when we were talking last night that she just doesn't have the fire in her to either have a passionate relationship with me or the will to try to make it work. I believe our marriage represents co-dependent safety for both of us and we both attached to somebody we felt would never leave us.

I didn't choose to raise this with my wife now because the spectre of another woman is looming. In fact all of my dealings with the AA woman indicate to me that she is suffering from either NPD or BPD traits. There has been push/pull, a lack of empathy for my situation as it stands, despite the fact that she has been through a terrible marriage break up herself involving a child. Everything we discussed during love-bombing was about her hopes and dreams and very little to do with mine. I can see where I have got it so wrong in the past with these types of women because in the case of this woman she appears empathic and loving but really it is all about her getting what she wants. She oscillates between calling me her ideal man and then has attacked me for the following: Lack of courage in staying in an unhappy marriage, lying on WhatsApp when she saw that I had checked my messages online during the night and not realising that checking messages doesn't mean you are writing messages to other women. She has accused me of all sorts of other things which I consider inappropriate for a short lived affair in which I have been totally honest from the outset. I keep remembering the words of an ex girlfriend after our affair finished at the height of drinking: 'You have reaped what you have sewn.' I feel this is how my life is panning out. I am getting out of it directly what I have put in. I am suffering and it is right that I suffer for my terrible betrayal of my wife.

However, I also feel relief and an inner strength that I didn't know I had. I don't need another woman at the moment. I need to get in touch with myself and discover who I am. My wife is talking about moving out in the New Year. We are talking and we are being loving and understanding with each other. I am going to float the idea of going to see a therapist with her. None of this is ideal. I am aware that I have largely ignored or at least adapted the advice I have received on here to my own purposes, but trust me, without this site and the advice received, I would not have had the courage to talk to my wife. Perhaps it wasn't ideal to mention I have had a crush on another woman, but it has made her realise that there is a serious problem. I don't know what the end game is. She is hurt and re-evaluating her life and I am numb and hurting. However, it is long overdue. She said in the same breath that she loves me but we probably should never have got married. A conclusion I have voiced many times on here. I am scared and full of self-loathing for my behaviour but at least I don't feel that deep seated hopeless depression of inertia. Things are changing and I am confident that in breaking up I will do right by my wife finally and that we may part of as good terms as is possible. I have not ruled out that if her position softens there may actually be a chance of still saving the marriage but for that to happen we would need to address my wife's intimacy issues and my own abandonment/boredom fears.

I am a work in progress but there is light at the end of a very long, dark tunnel.

RF

[pearlsw]

Hi RF,

This sounds like an important breakthrough! I know you are in pain now and part of you is desperate to save things, out of safety/codependence it sounds, but great that you are out of the stuck place! Keep moving forward friend!

wishing you peace, pearl.

[zachira]

I admire your self awareness and courage in being as honest and open as you can with your wife about how you are feeling, and your desire to go to therapy with your wife so you can best work out how to end your marriage. Your are so amazingly self aware about your attraction to a woman at AA who has some big red flags which could really lead to more years of unhappiness if you were to follow through by getting into a serious relationship with her. It is normal to feel attracted to the wrong type of person when we get out of a bad relationship, and for most of us, it takes lots of time without being a relationship, good therapy, and really finding out what is right for us, before we can have a healthy relationship. Take care and keep us posted.

[Gemsforeyes]

Dear RF-
As painful as this is, I’m glad you and your wife are talking.  I’m glad you’re hearing what she has to say... .important things to hear.  Even though it hurts.   I’m glad she’s hearing you.  And whether or not your wife agrees to joint therapy, I would again encourage you to seek it for yourself - now rather than later.  For the reasons I stated in my post above.  And while going through this intimate process with your wife, please honor and respect her and keep wide space (no contact) with AA woman.  I believe you can keep this part of your vow.

Others may disagree with what I’m about to say... .but when going through separation, I don’t think it’s necessary to say things to heighten your wife’s grief.  Please do NOT tell her about BPDex.  Your wife cannot get those years back.  It will not change anything, so please don’t tell her.  I have my personal reasons for saying this... .there are things I wish I didn’t know.

Outside influences of another (potentially disordered person) will NOT allow you to make clear-headed/hearted decisions.  And this AA woman is single, nothing to lose by inserting herself into your situation and upsetting your wife.  AA woman seems to already have shown herself to be a loose cannon, so you’ll have to be careful with how you present anything.  She knows a lot about you... .Therapy will help you see if AA woman is the place you want to be.  Or not. 

Recap... .therapy.  Push the passion pause button.  Respect and honor your wife for the next few months.

Warmly,
Gemsforeyes

[RomanticFool]

Hi Gems,

Thank you for your response. I have no intention of telling my wife anything that would hurt her more than I already have. Seeing how the knowledge of me having a ‘crush’ on somebody has affected her is enough for me to tread carefully.

I do not seek to justify my behaviour but the affairs are a symptom of our relationship breakdown. What I want to discuss in therapy is the nature of our attachment. There is an absence of passion in my wife or indeed any discernible sexuality. I don’t think we ever really attached in any romantic sense at any point in our relationship.

One thing the affairs have taught me is how a woman behaves when she is attracted to me. Of course I have had experience of this in my past also but it took the latest liaison to make me fully understand exactly what has been absent in my relationship for over 12 years. Sure the person concerned may well have traits but somebody finding me physically, intellectually and artistically attractive has made me not want to settle for an anodyne half relationship which is co-dependent in nature.

That is not to say that I am not going to try to save the marriage because the prospect of losing my wife has clearly been a terrible one as I have done nothing but cry since Sunday. I was surprised at how deeply her prospective loss has affected me. She was ready to walk and it was me who suggested going to Relate. She has agreed as I think she doesn’t really want to upheave her life.

However, when I broke the news on Sunday that I was unhappy her first reaction was: ‘Now I have to go back out dating again’ and she burst into tears. Her next reaction was to declare that she would now have tattoos all the way down her arm. I have asked her to only have tattoos that can be covered by her blouse. My reaction was to sob my heart out at the prospect of losing her. I find her reaction odd. I took my shirt off in the front room last night and I noticed that she didn’t give me a second glance. For me these things speak volumes about the issues in the relationship. As least my affair partners find me attractive and make me feel wanted. That is the crux here.

[Chitchat]

'I saw the love and trust ebb out of her eyes.'

Can you say more about her?

[Panda39]

However, when I broke the news on Sunday that I was unhappy her first reaction was: ‘Now I have to go back out dating again’ and she burst into tears. Her next reaction was to declare that she would now have tattoos all the way down her arm. I have asked her to only have tattoos that can be covered by her blouse. My reaction was to sob my heart out at the prospect of losing her. I find her reaction odd.

We all take this kind of news our own way... .she felt settled in your relationship it may not be a perfect relationship but it is hers and she was settled now everything is unsettled and she is looking at a different future than she envisioned and is trying to figure out what her future is now.  Sounds to me like she's sad and frustrated that she has to go out there and start again.

The tattoo comment reflects some anger. You hurt me so I'm going to hurt you by doing something you won't like.

I took my shirt off in the front room last night and I noticed that she didn’t give me a second glance. For me these things speak volumes about the issues in the relationship. As least my affair partners find me attractive and make me feel wanted. That is the crux here.

Speaking as a woman, this is going to be the last thing I'm thinking about if my husband just told me he wants to end our relationship and is attracted to someone else.

Speaking for myself... .Physical attractiveness is superficial, you can be the most physically gorgeous man on the planet, but I'm not going to be attracted, if you hurt me or treat me poorly.

Panda39

[Gemsforeyes]

Dear RF-

I am feeling your sadness and your fear at the prospect of losing your marriage.  Bringing up your unhappiness WAS a brave thing to do - especially knowing you do have abandonment issues.  I believe many of us acquire abandonment fears to some extent once we reach a certain age.  Do you think you may have inserted the ‘crush’  notion to somehow let your wife know that you’re “not dead yet” in the man department?

Her tattoo comment seems odd... .for some reason I picture your W as a rather conservative woman... .am I wrong?  Did you ask about her motivation behind the tattoo comment?  Is she hiding some “wildness” that perhaps you’d find enticing if she were able to express that side with YOU? 

I may be flying out on a limb here, but please put on your wings for a second.  This is your wife we’re talking about.  You feel love for her and she says she loves you.  You feel the passion is missing, right?  What if you were to try a private couples tantra session or something like that- to experiment with building trust and eye contact and passion?  Sometimes healing and becoming closer isn’t all about talk talk talk.  Maybe something like that COULD help to heal what you ails you?  Marvin Gaye sang about it... .

And for the moment, let go of her not taking a peek as you disrobed.  Remember, you just disclosed your interest in another woman.  You also discussed your disappointment in the absence of passion.  She has gotten used to expecting nothing.  That’s why my suggestion would be to perhaps ask her if she is at all interested in exploring some type of sexual/loving healing.  To see where it can lead you both and your marriage.

And RF, in suggesting this approach, I still lovingly encourage you to do talk therapy for yourself.  I truly believe it can help you feel more at home in your own skin.  And my friend, you so deserve that.

Warmly,
Gemsforeyes

[Gemsforeyes]

Sorry... .one more, no two more things.

First, regarding AA woman.  Where are you on that?  I’m hoping you’re going to flush that idea completely - meaning you go NC; clean, no drama, no blaming exit, attend different AA meetings so you’re not tempted, etc.

Second, explain to your wife that your ‘crush’  is done and really brought you to realize how much you want your marriage; your wife is your only focus, blah blah blah (if in fact you WANT to revive your marriage and your W buys in).

I truly wish you deep passion with your wife, RF.

Ok, ‘nuf said.

Gems

[Wicker Man]

Romantic Fool,

Are you and your wife considering individual therapy as well as couples?  My wife and I each see and our own therapists and then meet with a third for couple's counseling. 

This is a very confusing and painful time.  Having individual therapists has certainly helped us benefit more from our couple's sessions.  My therapist and I have been working on my needs as well as my concerns about my marriage.

I think it is good you and your wife are going to consider marriage counseling.  You will either rebuild your marriage or receive closure if you both decide on dissolution.  From what I have read, and it is true to my experience, you marriage will change now.  It cannot go back to what it was before you have this sort of a rift.

You mentioned a couple examples of behavior I.e. tattoos and her not reacting to you removing your shirt -please keep in mind nerves are frayed for both of you at this point.  It will be easy to over react and or over interpret the smallest things. 

When you are speaking about relationship issues remember to take breaks.  Remind each other to breath.  If either one of you gets angry stop and take a rest.

We were prescribed 'Solution oriented therapy'  It helped.  Basically if there is something you and your wife enjoy doing together do it.  E.g. cooking, taking walks etc.  There will be plenty of Sturm und Drang  make sure you take some time and do things you do well together to have a break from the intensity of discussing the problematic parts of your relationship.

It is a bit of a silly little book, but I would suggest both of you have a look at 5 Love Languages -Chapman.  The idea behind the book is sound and it might open a good discussion between you and your wife.  My wife, as it turned out, changed her mind on what she wanted from me in our relationship.  Misinterpreting how we love and how we want to be loved can cause a lot of stress.  As an example if your wife wanted the dishes done, but instead you mowed the lawn the result is you feel unappreciated and she feels neglected.  If you wanted to be held, yet she gave you words on affirmation instead it is the same idea.

I like Marriage Clinic -Gottman.  It is written for therapists, but I still got a lot out of it.

I hope you are remembering to take care of yourself.  Try to eat and sleep well, keep an eye on your wife and make sure she is doing the same.

Best wishes,


Wicker Man

[Wicker Man]

I hope things are going ok for you.

[Skip]

What I want to discuss in therapy is the nature of our attachment. There is an absence of passion in my wife or indeed any discernible sexuality... . 

RF, this is a little rough, but it needs to be said. I think it would be beyond cruel to pin the failure of your marriage on your wife and then toss her out. From all that you have said, she has always had a hypoactive sexual desire (HSDD), a common form of sexual dysfunction among women of all ages. She is the women you married.

If you take that as a starting point (HSDD) and add 12 years or serial adultery and your associated emotional unavailability, there is good reason for her lack of passion.

To leave her after all these years of standing by your side, and to exit by tagging her as broken or unlovable could destroy her life.

You've said before that you abused her. Why not go to therapy to get professional help on with the salvaging or closing of the relationship with kindness and look at yourself.

Are you and your wife considering individual therapy as well as couples?  My wife and I each see and our own therapists and then meet with a third for couple's counseling. 

This is a good model, RF. It will be good to start this process by confessing (in private session) the truth to the therapist and asking for help working with your wife on what is in the best interest of both of you. He will talk to your wife in private session and get a sense of her, too. It's important that he knows what he is dealing with, all the way around.

Make sense?

You've come a long way. This is a long journey.

[RomanticFool]

Skip,

There is no question of me pinning the failure of the marriage on to my wife. There have been a number of developments since my last post. Last Sunday was a truly awful day but I felt I had to communicate to my wife that the lack of intimacy has to be addressed. I stupidly told her that I had a crush on another woman, which served only to obfuscate the issues in the marriage.

I suggested going to Relate to my wife and made an appointment. My wife flatly refused to go and stated categorically that she did not want either of us spending money on expensive counselling. She feels that we are good communicators and can sort any issues by talking. She said that she will now make a new bed a priority and we need to resolve this issue by Christmas. I did not argue and I have not mentioned anything else regarding the AA woman as my wife was threatening to ‘hunt her down.’ I have allowed things to defuse and settle back to relative normality this week.

I have more than a crush on the AA woman. While we have love-bombed each other and had a whirlwind relationship over the last 6 weeks, including her surviving a cancer scare and me realising she is actually far more suited to me than any woman I have been with in years. While she has been recovering from surgery I have spent a great deal of time with her over the last 3 weeks and I have come to realise that she is much healthier than I first feared. It probably sounds completely deranged but after a relatively short period of time I have become convinced that she would be a real chance of future happiness. We have a great deal in common and unlike both my wife and my ex, she has emotional intelligence and is able to give and receive love in equal measure. I could talk more about this but I am aware that it will simply come across as limerence. However, I feel it is far more and possibly the kind of woman I have been seeking.

However, having seen how crushed my wife was a week ago and seeing her come back from the brink of seeing her life falling apart around her ears, I am no longer sure I can go through with pulling the plug on my marriage. She told me that she wants to grow old with me and cannot countenance life without me. This has been enough to make me backtrack from telling her anything further about the AA woman and trying to restore some kind of stability to our existence. So I have agreed to keep talking with a view to repairing our marriage. I do not know how to leave the marriage without destroying her life and she doesn’t deserve that.

I am faced with the real prospect of turning my back on the AA woman who I now can see clearly is a genuine chance for me to have some elusive happiness for what in my life. It is not an obsessional love as it was for my ex, but something calmer and more grounded but genuinely wonderful. We have argued and I have been the one to storm out when she has overwhelmed me with her questioning of my morality and telling me that she does not want an affair with a married man - even though that is precisely what we have done. We have overcome both of our push/pull tendencies and fears around trust and most unexpectedly I think it could be a real and sustainable relationship. I feel it is the most sober ie with real questioning about the logistics of having a real relationship with a very intelligent and perceptive woman. However, having already had some insight into what it means to destroy my wife’s trust and stability, I am not sure I can go through with it.

RF

[Wicker Man]

There is no question of me pinning the failure of the marriage on to my wife... ... ..I felt I had to communicate to my wife that the lack of intimacy has to be addressed. I stupidly told her that I had a crush on another woman, which served only to obfuscate the issues in the marriage.

Romantic Fool I realize you have addressed this to Skip, but I am going to chime it.

Fundamental attribution error  is a concept which explains our tendency to explain someone's behavior based on internal factors, such as personality or disposition, and to underestimate the influence that external factors. 

It is too easy and very human to 'pin the failure of the marriage' solely on your wife.  This is dangerous for several reasons, firstly you are likely mistaken and secondly it implies you have been a model husband and have no need for growth or change. 

My wife who has shunned me physically for neigh on 25 years suffers from OC(PD).  Was the lack of intimacy largely a factor of her personality disorder? --Sure.  Does that mean the near catastrophic failure of our marriage was solely her doing?  No.

I have been working very hard in therapy to get myself in order, to try to understand my wife's personality and personality disorder.  I read and read and read. 

I have been reading philosophy, sociology and a bit about psychology since I graduated college -it wasn't enough.  I still found myself broken enough to fall in love with my affair partner and nearly end life as I knew it. I fell into the high of limerence and nearly moved to China trying to escape my old life.  Therapy is helping me to understand how to unravel 25 years of repression and a codependent relationship with my mother.  I ended up a 'nice guy people pleaser' I need to learn how to just be me.

I think it was actually a good idea to inform your wife you had a crush on another woman.  Otherwise there would be no need and no room to open the sort of painful introspection you will both need to figure our this next stage of your marriage.  As I said, once you disclose an affair, or in your case the intention to begin one -nothing will be the same.  Further it should not be the same, you are clearly not happy with some aspects of your marriage.  However, as I have stated in my foregone messages there are likely good parts of your marriage you are taking for granted and would not be able to see or understand until they are gone.

My wife flatly refused to go and stated categorically that she did not want either of us spending money on expensive counselling. She feels that we are good communicators and can sort any issues by talking.

Part of OC(PD) is frugality to the point of dysfunction.  I told my wife therapy is a bargain when one considers the cost of divorce.  This was harsh, but perhaps something along those lines might work for you.  Even if she won't go you must. You need a professional to speak to about your affair(s), your marriage, midlife crisis, and so on.

I have more than a crush on the AA woman... ... ..she is much healthier than I first feared [thought]... ... ..completely deranged but after a relatively short period of time I have become convinced that she would be a real chance of future happiness.

Limerence: An involuntary state of mind caused by a romantic attraction to another person combined with an overwhelming, obsessive need to have one's feelings reciprocated.

You literally cannot know how things would go with this woman until after the 6-18 months of limerence.  Further it would be an affair, which due to the clandestine nature are seductive. This affair would fail with about a 90% likelihood and you cannot know this until the destruction of your marriage and everything you and your wife have built together.

What is more you will consciously or subconsciously comparing an affair partner to your wife -wife always loses.  With my supposition of an attribution error on your part this phenomenon would only be compounded.

... .having seen how crushed my wife was a week ago and seeing her come back from the brink of seeing her life falling apart around her ears, I am no longer sure I can go through with pulling the plug on my marriage.

Yes -this is grizzly beyond description.  My wife fell to the floor and vomited when I told her I needed a divorce.  Please spend some time considering what your life would look like without your wife in it.  To a small extent it might be wise to consider the financial and practical ramifications of divorce at our age (I believe I am your peer in that regard).

This has been enough to make me backtrack from telling her anything further about the AA woman and trying to restore some kind of stability to our existence. So I have agreed to keep talking with a view to repairing our marriage. I do not know how to leave the marriage without destroying her life and she doesn’t deserve that.

You cannot leave your wife without dramatically changing her life.  When I was leaving I was planning to leave enough money for my wife to retire if she wished -she didn't care about the money.  Our marriage is the cornerstone of her security -I have always been her biggest 'fan' the cheerleader she could count on at the end of a hard day, her best friend.  We are now working toward finding a way in which to treat each other like more than best friends -diabolically difficult with 25 years of inertial.  However, it is a worthwhile venture.

Believe me Romantic Fool when I tell you I am the 'coping model' not the 'super man' model.  As I am writing this to you I am working in Beijing a short drive from 'Dream Come True'  a short drive from 'our' apartment.  I still miss her and the dream of being with her -but our relationship was a study in limerence meets a midlife crisis with just a hint of denial.  She adores me, but I am convinced she would destroy me.  Ha! She actually told me on so many words 'You must leave me I will destroy you'... .  I think it was the most honest and loving thing she ever said to me in our year together. 

My wife is refusing to speak about sex or sexuality in our therapy sessions and ,frankly, this scares the hell out of me.  We do communicate well (as you can tell I like to talk), but unraveling a life time of, personality disorder fueled, frigidity is a tall order. 

I harbor quite a lot of resentment over having spent my sexual prime in misery, she has the image of me having been with someone else, and we had been trying 'our best' for more than 2 decades. E.g. My wife said 'let me bring up sex next, I feel too much pressure from you'.  I though this was a wonderful idea... .So I approached her 14 months later -The thought of sex had never crossed her mind in over a year. 

This is going to be heavy lifting for us -and I know I will never feel the passion I did with 'Dream Come True'.  That is life.  I also know my wife will not short circuit and leave me one day, as I am certain 'Dream Come True' would have.

... .I have been the one to storm out when she has overwhelmed me with her questioning of my morality and telling me that she does not want an affair with a married man... .

You seem to have some demons.  You have a lot going on and I would strongly suggest seeing a therapist on your own even if your wife refuses to go --mine did until our near dissolution.  Not all therapists are created equal -it takes a lot of work to find a good one, but it is worth the time.  Once again a few thousand on therapy will cost you less that the lawyer fees of an uncontested divorce -I have had friends spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on legal fees in ugly divorces.

Ok -I have to get to work... .  Best of luck Romantic Fool


Wicker Man

[Skip]

RF, looking at the past year, you often vacillate between opposing future directions - continue in affairs or work on your marriage.  The cycle has been to rethink the marriage when the affair was stumbling, and seek affairs when attempts at fixing the marriage don't yield a rather direct path to a more sexual marriage.

All in all, this sounds like you are teeing it up to stay in your marriage and continue the status quo of the last 12 years of having serial affair partners.

You've admitted that this is abusive. You don't think you marriage can be fixed. You don't think you can live without a active physical relationship. Why continue?

And even if you wanted to, will you be able to? Your wife is in a state of shock and grief. The first stage is the denial, the second stage is bargaining, the third is anger, etc. I think you can count on the fact that when she gets out of the shock and awe, she is going to start looking for indications of current or past affairs.

Isn't it best either choose her or choose to leave - and not choose the abusive and frustrating path you have been on for so long.

[Wicker Man]

Skip wrote -

Isn't it best either choose her or choose to leave - and not choose the abusive and frustrating path you have been on for so long.

This is sound advice, but I would like to stand firm on my notion that you may not be in an emotional position to make a decision of this magnitude with out a lot of introspection and the guidance of a therapist. 

My therapist has been incredibly hard on me.  Even to the extent of questioning my decision to go back to my marriage -asking me if it was the right thing to leave my affair partner. Giving up the idea of living abroad and bringing my work back to the US (home).

These are discussions no one else in my world would have been able to have with me.  Friends just want what is 'best' for me, in other words their advice may be short sighted or a quick fix.

A good therapist will be trying to help you discover what is right for you.  Discover where happiness and stability may lie for you in the long run. 

I know I must sound like a paid advertisement for therapy  -but personally I found myself at a crossroads in life which I had never anticipated. 

I had taken a fork in the road I never saw coming and I realized it was time to get some advice in shaping the remainder of my life.  Considering opening up my world view and having a hard look at it was not an easy or a light thing, but I feel it was the right thing for me.

If nothing else I feel you have nothing to lose by taking some time and preceding with extreme caution.  Divorce is a binary decision -When 1 become 0 that is it, the die is cast.  You stop seeing your wife, sell off all your assets, and go out into the world alone.  Not a small or light thing.

I wish someone had had these discussions with me before I blew my marriage up.  I was deep in limerence and denial; swept up in the insanity which is new love.  I hurt a lot of people very very deeply --My wife, her family, my affair partner, her family and ultimately myself.

Perhaps I would not have been able to listen, but I wish someone had tried --so here I am.  I am trying.


Wicker Man

[pearlsw]

Hi RF,

Hope you are holding up? I know how hard it can tear your insides up (It brings to mind an image of an old medieval torture device!) when your life is being pulled in two extremes - either try to fix what you have or roll the dice and try for something new.

As hard as it is. One life. One relationship at a time. You have a timeline with her now - the end of the year. Stay focused on that goal.

wishing you peace, pearl.

[RomanticFool]

Hi All,

The sorry tale of woe continues... .

The AA woman who I was planning my entire future around has now decided that she ‘can’t do this anymore’ - after I told my wife that our marriage isn’t working. I’m not surprised, upset or angry - just a bit numb. We had become very close over the last six weeks but she was engaging in push/pull behaviour for most of that time. She said today that she loves me but the timing is wrong. This after saying to me yesterday that her life is ruined if she can’t be with me.

My life has once again gone back to a very painful place and this one is much closer to home. The love-bombing was the full on BPD version that everybody on here describes: music, poetry, declarations of undying love forever and ever. Then wham - it’s all blown up despite constant reassurances to her that I am in the process of leaving my marriage. Since she is somebody who left her own marriage when her daughter was a baby, I thought she would understand or empathise.

So am I back to square one? Well quite frankly no. I cannot repair the damage done to my marriage even if I wanted to now. My wife has gone back to normal and appears willing to put my ‘crush’ down to depression and self sabotage. The problem now is me. I was too invested in the idea of being with the AA woman and I will find it harder than ever to go back to normal with my wife. Nothing about this situation is normal or healthy come to that.

Incidentally the reason why the AA woman pulled the plug is because I refused to give her a timeline for leaving my marriage. I told her that I needed the right amount of time to be fair to my wife and end the marriage because of the issues therein rather than because an impatient woman is putting pressure on me.

The way I see it now I have three not very palatable options. 1. I sit in the marriage and try to figure a way through knowing that yet another potential partner has decided that I am not worth waiting for and has given up on any possible relationship with me, whether I leave my marriage or not. 2. I continue with my desire to leave my marriage and take a leap into the unknown at the age of 55 and most likely meet more women who go nuts over me for six weeks and then abruptly withdraw. This seems to be consistent with what I usually attract. 3. Throw in the towel on everything. The last option feels the most attractive right now.

[Wicker Man]

I cannot repair the damage done to my marriage even if I wanted to now... ... ..My wife has gone back to normal and appears willing to put my ‘crush’ down to depression and self sabotage.

RomanticFool your wife is leaving the door open for you -you wrote she has essentially accepted your admission of the 'crush' on the other woman as being a moment of weakness. 

I remember and understand all too well the dismay; the confusing effects an affair has on one and one's marriage.  This is an emotionally charged time and depression was the result for me. 

Please consider getting into therapy.  It has really help the color return to my life.  When I left my undiagnosed BPD fiancé it felt like I was living in a world of grey. 

Journaling helped me quite a bit.  Forcing myself to articulate thoughts to the point of being able to put them into writing was a form of catharsis.

Remember you are only 55.  I am 52 and certainly feel that I have a lot of great days ahead of me -but it takes work to get to this mindset.  Sometimes we can't do this work alone -I sought the help of friends and my therapist.

My marriage is not an easy one -but with work I feel we can rebuild it into something healthy.  This is the difference between being 'in love' and love.  'In love' is easy (limerence) love is work, daily hard work.  Limerence is the 6 week women you alluded to.  Love is the long haul -not the soaring highs of limerence, but a sustainable and healthy relationship. 

Love must begin within.  Love yourself first.  Once again this is why I keep suggesting therapy.

Incidentally the reason why the AA woman pulled the plug is because I refused to give her a timeline for leaving my marriage.

I don't know if this helps, but I never missed a date in the timeline for my divorce -yet things still blew up with my affair partner.  It wasn't about a timeline -it was about her  suffering from a serious personality disorder.  It was about the 90% likelihood of affairs not surviving the light of day.

I ended up getting incredibly lucky my affair ended before I had made the biggest mistake of my life.  I nearly moved to China and had a baby with someone who would have very likely left me.  --In the bad decision department I think I deserve full marks, however in the heat of the moment I was blinded and it felt I was doing the right thing.

None of this is easy -and none of this is any fun.  However the lesson, from my perspective, happiness comes from within.  Some of us -me included have some work to do in this regard.

If you can try to take care of yourself.  Go take a walk -get some fresh air.  There is nothing pressing you to make any decisions right now.  Take a deep breath and realize everything is ok.  In fact I keep mentioning do not make any decisions in your current state.  Be calm.  You will be ok.

I am sorry you are in so much pain -but it does get better.


Wicker Man

[RomanticFool]

I feel like I can’t do this anymore. My life is either boredom, limerence or despair. Nothing much in between. I know the AA woman is not well emotionally but I dared to hope that she really wanted what I wanted. There are so many similarities between us and moments of exquisite joy that I haven’t experienced in years. I feel like I don’t want to go on with life and this constant cycle of limerence to despair via boredom. This one has pushed me to the brink.

[Wicker Man]

It gets better.  It really does.  You can break this cycle. 

I had put all my eggs in the basket of my affair and when it fell apart I felt lost.  This feeling pasted in time. 

I am still working on a lot of things and make a far better 'coping model' than a superman model.  --but as I said even if you feel you can't see it now -take me at my word this gets better.

[Radcliff]

I am of a similar age to you, with a failed marriage and several complications such that it makes total sense to me that "throw in the towel on everything" seems like the most attractive option.

Are you able to acknowledge the hypothetical possibility that life could get better?  Even if it doesn't seem like it, feels impossible, there's no path you can see, etc. are you able to believe there is at least a theoretical possibility?

Believe it or not, you are already moving along a path to a better life by recognizing that the current situation is untenable.  You deserve better.  You don't have to know yet how that's going to happen, but resolving to make your remaining years better is the first step.

When all of your options seem unattractive, one approach is to see if there are options you haven't identified.  You have choices.  You could make the choice to try again with your wife if you feel it could be possible to find happiness together.  Or, you could decide to leave and get healthy.  I can also relate to trepidation that the world is full of unhealthy women (and yes, there are unhealthy men, but we won't be dating them ;) ).  But if we heal ourselves, and believe in ourselves, the dating odds for folks in their 50's are in our favor.  The onus is on us to get healthy and learn to recognize unhealthiness in potential partners.  We control that.

What are you doing to take care of yourself?  Are you talking to someone who cares about you every day?  Do you need to strengthen your support network?

RC

[Harri]

Hi RF.

I am sorry things are so difficult right now.  The feelings are temporary but they are still so difficult to cope with.  I am glad you reached out here to us.  You know we will always listen and support you.  

Where are you now?  Are you alone?  

I feel like I can’t do this anymore.

I think I know what you mean, but I don't want to make assumptions so tell me more please.  

We've got ya.

[RomanticFool]

Thanks for your replies it helps. I also know that coming on these boards may well have saved me from something worse than the despair I am feeling now. In truth I recognised the AA woman’s behaviour early on and knew immediately what the traits were. If it wasn’t for that I may well be in even greater despair.

I do feel like throwing in the towel but I won’t because I know the despair will lift. It’s just another failed relationship on the road to my attempts to find the perfect partner. Every time something like this happens it makes me understand why I married my wife. I knew she was very unlikely to ever leave me. There is a lot to be said for that right now.

I don’t really deserve happiness because I have been a serial cheat during my marriage. I probably deserve the lack of trust that the AA woman has just invoked to end the r/s. The worst thing is I was starting to really believe we could have a future together but I have been grief-stricken at the idea of losing my wife. I wasn’t sure if it meant anything outside of the fact that I love her enough to be married but not enough to try to rekindle our intimacy. The AA woman is bright, intelligent, creative, affectionate but a little crazy. I’ve known it all along. Two weeks into the r/s I told my wife I had a crush on her and said I wanted out of my marriage. The AA woman was ecstatic about it and invited me to move in with her. Alarm bells were ringing in my head. I slowed everything down and backtracked with my wife and told the AA woman I wanted to take time before making such a momentous decision. She pushed and pulled at me but was actually being quite supportive over the last few days. Then today I received a phone call from my wife while in the AA woman’s house. This triggered her despite me telling her consistently that I am leaving my marriage. Now she has ended the r/s and ceased all contact. That’s not mature. That’s not loving. That’s not love. If she really cared she would have given me the time I needed. I could never trust her even if I did leave my marriage.

However, all of the AA woman’s affection and compliments towards me have underlined the lack of intimacy in my marriage and the lack of interest my wife really has in my life. I still feel that my wife is one of the few people I can wholeheartedly trust. I am back to square one but I feel like a different person. I just don’t know which way to jump.

[Harri]

Hi. 

I just don’t know which way to jump.

  Maybe making a jump right now is not a good idea.  You have a lot going on and a lot to manage both with your marriage and with your own self.  Why not just take some time and Be?