Mother with BPD engaging in emotional incest, sexual suggestive statements

[Pearz]

I'm glad I found this site. I have been dealing with this issue with my mother since my late teens. I am in my late 40s now and it has definitely gotten worse in the last few years. I had the feeling of being overwhelmed today and just started putting search criteria in the search engine to look for advice. I have a lot to get off my chest. At one point four years ago I went to see a Catholic priest and Im not even Catholic. I at least got to spill my guts and it took the edge off my frustration and anger. I am angry with this woman, my mother, for her behavior towards me and revolted.

In my teens she would inspect my laundry and one time made a comment abt a speck of foundation makeup on a white shirt. I had been kissing my girlfriend and she was my first girlfriend. I was mortified and embarrassed and angry and I felt violated by her intrusiveness. She continued to insert herself in my life in this way which occurred during both my marriages as well. The last marriage her behavior did significant damage and contributed to the divorce. This was all bad enough but in my forties and after my last divorce she started actually being suggestive sexually towards me. It is the most disgusting thing I can think of and I do hate her for this outrage. I confronted her or called her out on some suggestive language last year a few weeks before my birthday she called me a few days before my birthday and told me she could not celebrate it with me because she had an appointment that day. I knew this was a lie but I didn't want to be with her anyway so I said ok we don't have to celebrate it period. A couple weeks went by and I had cooled down enough and I went to visit her. I noticed after a few minutes that my elder dog was missing. I asked and she informed me that she had to put her down. I instantly knew what the appointment was on my birthday. My head was swimming with anger but I held it in. I am going to drop that bomb this year when she has forgotten her treachery and wants me to come over for my birthday.

This woman is crazy. I hate that I can't have a normal relationship with her. She is getting older and I am the only child (son) and I am not well myself having RMSF Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever and I am overwhelmed how I am going to be able to deal with this succubus alone.

[Turkish]

That's a long time to deal with such issues, and I'm glad that you finally reached out for support. 

Emotional incest is disturbing and damaging and it can cross over into inappropriate sexual behaviors even if short of physical incest. If she's still doing this after all of this time she isn't likely to change and normal may mean you having strong boundaries based upon your core values. 

It recently started reading one of the books featured here (I'm about 2/3 through it)

Silently Seduced

It may help provide some insight and validation. 

I'm sorry about your pup. Sadly, yours isn't the first story I've seen here like that. 

[zachira]

Pearz,
The anger, confusion, sorrow, and hurt you feel over the emotional incest you have experienced with your mother with BPD is unfortunately not uncommon. It is also extremely difficult when you are an only child. Reading your post just made my blood boil, as my siblings and I are the victims of terrible emotional incest by my mother with BPD. Your comments made me think of my brothers who never married, and mom went out of her way to make sure none of their relationships worked out or ever led to marriage. The most important part of all this is you recognize how the relationship with your mother has impacted your life and your marriages, and you would like to figure out how to go forward. You feel that you cannot continue to deal with her, as the only son and the way she treats you. Though it does not seem like it right now, there are many options on the table to make things easier for you though all of them will be hard choices and none of them easy because of the way your mother treats you. You may want to work with a therapist that specializes in emotional incest, so you can heal while being supported in deciding what to do. There are many of us who post on this site who are victims of terrible emotional incest by our mothers with BPD, and we are here to listen and support you in any way we can. Keep us posted on how you are doing, and post whenever you feel you want to be heard and cared for.

[isilme]

Pearz,

I am so sorry.  Both of my parents have BPD plus other issues, and I was also an only child.  I was locked up with a lotta crazy, and did not know the mature conversations and entertainment I was allowed to watch was wrong until I was a lot older.  I wanted ot vomit the more I read about covert incest, emotional incest.  Both of my parents expected me to fill the holes in their failing marriage.  It was all wrong, and overall, I think this is what weirds me out the most - the adult expectations that were thrown on a child and teenager.  NC is really the best I can do.  The overt abuse, things like hitting, calling names, were easy to see and understand they were wrong.  The isolation and neglect, even, I am still figuring out how far it went.  But the emotional incest?  And people ask me why I'm afraid my instincts are all wrong for being a mom. 

They never actually touched me inappropriately that I can remember, but Mom introduced me to concepts of sex, rape, and masturbation about age 5.  We moved a lot, and I know exactly how old I was in each house, so I can peg my age by where we lived.  I was, wearing a towel, on my way to take my bath, and she decided to have this long uncomfortable talk with me, and pulled out some books with images in them.  She was obsessed with a concern my dad would prefer me to her, I think.  Remember, I was 5.  She also liked to run around the house in front of me naked, and while I guess that's not really anything to worry about, some families are very open, I guess I feel now there was an odd exhibitionist thing to it, which creeps me out.

Later, she would openly talk to me about dad going to strip clubs, her concerns he was cheating, and when they were intimate together, they'd not take care to keep it all that private?  Like, it was a joke later.  I was her BFF confidant, all too young, all too inappropriate.  When I was 14, I had girl issues, was in a lot of pain, and she commented she didn't know if I was still a virgin or not.  I was like wha?  I've never even had a boyfriend, or a boy even interested in me?  What are you talking about?  She insisted on pelvic exams and the gamut from age 12. 

Dad, he would also make inappropriate comments, confided he cheated on wife #1 (my mom was wife #2) in Vietnam at a brothel, confided in me mom was not endowed as much as he liked, etc.  Would make awkward comments in public to me, pulling my shoulders back, "walk like you've got a pair."  "You'll have kids easy with those hips, I knew what I was doing when I made you."

We'd play a family game - count the hookers.  We'd drive to the red light district in D.C., and count the ladies in underclothes strutting around.  I had a hazy idea they were "hookers" and that it was supposed to be funny.  I was kinda sad they were in underwear in the cold.  Hooker didn't mean much at 10 years old. 

Dad would rent stripping contest videos, and have me in the room to watch - family movie night.  When he divorced mom, he relies way too much on me as his emotional support, his stand-in wife.  Again, I was never touched, but wonder now if some of his rage-filled anger at me was based on my being "off limits", and a need to punish me for it.  I don't know.

I am so sorry about your dog, and your birthday.  Dad had my cat put down or outright killed it.  I am not certain.  We were going to move in with wife #3, my stepmother, and she did not want my cat to come.  Next thing I know, he's sick.  Dad waited for like a week to "take him to the vet" while I was at school.  I come home to learn he died in "great pain, too fast for the vet to even help as his stomach burst," and was told it was all my fault my cat died, I must have let out something for him to eat that made him sick.  I have beat myself up for years for that.  In recent years, after having elderly pets put down for stroke, I know the vet would never have let that happen, they move quickly, and I suspect dad simply wanted to cat gone and was mad at me for having it in the first place, so he had to hurt me.   

You mom is not a mom.  She is a sick lady who likes to use emotional pain to try to control you.  You owe her little to nothing by now.  Only as much as you feel you can give.  Anger is normal, grief is normal.  Grief for the mom you wanted but did not have.

BPD causes issues with boundaries.  A pwBPD does not see you as a separate entity.  This is hard with a BPD spouse (got one), but for those of us with BPD parents, they literally feel they own us, we are part of them to have and control till death.  I felt like a doll, ignored or played with as their whims decided.  Your mom sees you as a vehicle for her to have good emotions, or to expel bad ones.  Or any that she has.  After all, what else are you for (in her mind)?  If you have a wife and a successful marriage, you might leave her.  Abandon her.  She lacks the ability to see that her own crazy actions will result in just that.

Take a break from her as long as you need.  Posting here helps clear my head, and putting things on "paper" keeps you from bottling it all up.  This si a disturbing topic, but this is a very good place to express how you feel, and get some of it out there. 

[AoiKoutei]

Dear Pearz,

I am very sorry to hear all the awful things you have come through. I'm glad you found this forum, which is very helpful. Joining us is a very great step !

The other members have already given you some precious tools, but because I have also living (and still live) in a very incestuous relationship with my mother, I can relate too.

First of all, as Turkish mentionned, the "Silently Seduced: When Parents Make Their Children Partners" book of Ph.D. Adams is an extremely useful tool to heal from emotional incest. It is very focused on romantic relationships issues victims may face in their life. I strongly advise you this book !  

Concerning your dog, I am very sorry to hear what she did. I know how horrible it is, because my mother did something similar with my first dog. My dog was 14 years old, so close to the end, but not sick at all, and my BP mother couldn't handle the first signs of old-age. Instead of having a familial conversation about our dog, or even discussing about euthanasia (which was not necessary at all, in my opinion), she decided, at night, secretly, to give our dog all its medicines, hoping it won't wake up. I later did a calcul : she gave it 45 times the normal dose. The worst thing is that I actually heard her doing that. I woke up, but I thought this sound was my mother taking her own pills because she couldn't sleep. I remember having this thought "maybe she is killing our dog". But I so often had this anxious thought, that she would kill me at night, my sister or our dog, that I just let it go.
The next day, when I woke up, I knew what she did. My dog was not dead, but it was in a so horrible condition that we had to euthanize it in the afternoon. I can't forgive my mother, and I will never do.
What she did to you was even more awful, because it didn't seem to be motivated by anxiety, but by hatred. She wanted to make you suffer, and I am extremly sorry about this.

Concerning incestuous behavior, as isilme stated, it may be motivated by this feeling that you belong to her. BP mothers refuse to break away from their children, their proprety, "themselves". During puberty, my mother was always looking at my changes, as if she was looking at herself. I remember these icky moments, when in the middle of the street, she would ask me to raise my arms so she could check how my underarm hair were growing. She definitively crossed the line when she asked me to shower, but stayed in the bathroom on purpose. I felt so unconfortable that I tried to wait until she went away. But she yelled at me to shower, so I had to undress in front of her, while she was examining me from the mirror, like if it was her body, and not her afraid 13 years old boy. Besides, she often entered in my room, entirely nude, and asked me to look at a new shampoo or whatever she would press next to her vagina.

When it was not sexual, it was emotional incest, all the time. My sister and I were her surrogate husband and her therapist. We had to listen to her complaining about my father all the day in order to get some affection. She gave birth to us in the only purpose to meet her needs.

Don't forget you don't have to forgive her. What she did to you is unacceptable. She gave birth to you in her own interest, and then destroyed your life. She doesn't deserve you. Don't feel guilty if you cut off ties with her. This guilt is a manipulation tool she has used against you to keep you with her. This is brainwashing. You have the right to be angry, and you have all the reasons on earth to be angry. And most importantly, do not expect anything from your her.

Do you see a therapist ? If not, I strongly advise you to see one, because this healing path is a long one, and you will need help. Of course we are all here to support you, but talking with a profesionnal face to face is very powerful. It helps me a lot to grieve my childhood.

The only thing you can do with her is either cutting off ties, or setting strong boundaries (there is a lot of ressources on this forum). But whatever you choose, keep in mind that your first priority is your health. I am very sorry you suffer from RMSF, I just read about it online. Take care of yourself. You truly deserve it.  

AoiKoutei

[Star0009]

I read your post and you are very healthy for figuring all this out and not wanting anything to do with it.
I was def. a product of emotional incest with both my parents especially my mother from a very young age. I can''t tell you how many pets she killed, put down, gave away, left to stave as a child after I moved out. She once gave my sisters dog away on a date with her bf of the month because he decided to give his away and I had to go to the pound and get him out. She has a dog now she got only because I love dogs and the last few times I have seen her, mainly wanting to spend time with her she has let the dog out in the middle of the night to go chase him and has threatened me if I don't obey her commands she will not help me look for him and let him get hit. Thank god both times I got him back. I miss the dog. She also puts the dog on prozac and drugs him to go to sleep at night. I would love to the dog away from her. My bfs mom is also uBPD uhistrionic personality disorder which often includes inappropriate sexual behavior. She has bought him swimsuit issues from a young boy to this day. He is in his 40s. She wants me out of the picture and him living with her forever even if she keeps him a full blown alcoholic to do so as she has in the past supplying him with a cooler of booze. He is in recovery for years now but she still tries to push drinks on him. She has VERY loud sex every night with different men since he was a boy sleeping in the room next door. I have experienced it. She screams so loud every night you could hear it on the other end of a large house, she talks about her sex life, says she will 'grab him by the shorthairs.' a common joke she likes to make which I didn't get at first but it means his pubic hair. I could go on. Its gross and although he says he wants to get away from his Mom he can't go without answering the phone every time she calls. Its a good step you area actively seeking help. I'm so sorry about your dog. That is where I loose my cool with my Mom is when it comes to animals.

[Star0009]

isilme I'm curious about your quote

"Again, I was never touched, but wonder now if some of his rage-filled anger at me was based on my being "off limits", and a need to punish me for it.  I don't know.".

 I was the scapegoat child for my narcissistic father. He emotionally and verbally abused me and I know was trying to set his 50 some year old friend up with my 15 year old roommate at school. I know he prob. also tried to seduce other young girls. I don't know how young and if anything came of it. One time when I had my first boyfriend at 12 I was taking a bubble bath and he brought the boyfriend and his video camera in and filmed me in the bathtub. There were bubbles covering me but it was horrible looking back. I was fully developed and def. exploring my sexuality at the time with my bf as a young women. There is a time at 13 where I think he was trying to suggest I would like a sexual encounter with him but didn't have the balls thanks god and we were at a park. He was my friend but would also come home going into rages on me as an older teenager. He almost always called me a "nasty person!" Coming in the door screaming "where is that nasty person, where is that nasty (insert MY MOM"S NAME) . He always called me my Mom's name as a curse word. I was not nasty I was shy and chain smoked to take away the pain. I don't know what to make of his behavior and I don't want to think he was looking at me sexually but at the same time I have always felt disturbed by his behavior and wondered why he did this only to me. Is there an articles on what you're talking about? the rage coming from being "off limits"?

[Harri]

It is not uncommon for people with BPD to have poor boundaries around sexuality and sexual behaviors.  Many of us talk about parents walking in while using the bathroom or watching us dress and undress.  Sexually inappropriate behaviors are quite common.  over sharing sexual history with a spouse, asking inappropriate questions.  Exposing children/minors to porn is also included.  By some definitions, these behaviors would indicate sexual abuse, non-touching.

Star, filming and taking pictures brings your father's behavior to a higher level than simply inappropriate sexual behavior.  This may or may not be related to BPD and I think it goes beyond poor boundaries. 

Have you ever told anyone about this before Star? 

[Star0009]

No. It wasn't until actually writing it I realized how wrong it was. I found the video of it a year later when I was 13 in my apt. I was then living with my dad alone. I turned it on and my older brother had taped after it his college friends at a party. I was very embarrassed and I threw it away but felt so guilty to this day because my brother loved his college years. I never told anyone. He had the door open to the bathroom and my bf and and him walking in and out as if it was a fun thing that I was covered in bubbles but I was totally naked under the bubbles. I don't think my father was BPD just my Mom. I do suspect they were both narcissists. Do you think this was sexual abuse?
The news is really messing with me this week because during this same age I was living with my Mom and as I mentioned she used to hold me down at 12 and sit on top of me and smoother my mouth with her hand so I couldn't breath. One time she held me down repeatedly grabbed my crotch as I begged her to stop. She kept saying "this is what your father did to me" over and over. I can't remember if she smothered my mouth that night or not. When I got free I told my friends and she actually threatened to do it again in front of them. I count this as sexual abuse. My dad made me sue her in high school for abuse and I added sexual abuse. The judge didn't believe my story. I asked for a restraining order at the time but the court said no. She had my family show up. Thats when they really started calling me "evil" and my Mom blames me to this day for possibly make her lose her job as she works with young children but it happened and the anger now that women coming out about men doing this to them is coming back that my own mother did it to me.

[Turkish]

Covert incest,  much like physical incest,  can induce feelings of shame,  guilt and rage.  It's a betrayal of the parent-child relationship. 

Your mother definitely sexually assaulted you,  Star009... .similarly to when MDSA was first noticed by the mental health community,  the idea that mothers could do that was resisted. That sorry judge likely was biased not to entertain such notions.  

[yamada]

What a monster I have no idea where to start except save yourself because she is way out of control and incapable of change.

[Harri]

Hi.  Star, I would count that as sexual abuse as well.   

Julie Brand, M.S. Author of A Mother's Touch about mother daughter sexual abuse, connects female sexual abusers with NPD stating that being able to abuse a child requires a lack of empathy and an ability to take advantage of defenseless children.  Mother daughter sexual abuse happens.  It happened to me and we have had a few other people here who have posted about it over the years.  Unfortunately a lot of people deny that it can happen, falling back on the myth of motherhood.  Mothers can also sexual abuse their sons as well.  There are different degrees.  See https://tinyurl.com/y8rses3v a site on mdsa for a list of behaviors that come under the umbrella of mother daughter sexual abuse.

all that said, it is important that you label this behavior yourself.  You need to be the one to decide what category it falls under (within reason of course), we can not do that.  As Turkish mentioned, many people are biased against the thought that mothers can do this.  That bias, fortunately, has been changing and more and more professionals are aware.  Also, more pertinent to the OP of this thread, more and more are aware of the damage that covert incest can cause, with many experts stating that the damage can be as bad as if physical touch had been involved. 

A lot of us have had experiences that fall into the 'gross' category.  Covert incest is quite common in families with mental illness including BPD.

[isilme]

Star,

Is there an articles on what you're talking about? the rage coming from being "off limits"?

No articles just an idea I had just yesterday while writing on this post - it came together, cobbled together from a mass of things I've read, fiction and non.  I like some weird authors, and while I won't be grossed out by ideas Robert Heinlein may present as sound for HIS characters, they work in his universe where everyone is just an extension of him, so even if his characters are closely related and he has them get married 2000+ years into the future on a planet of nudists, it's not my cup of tea in real life.  Much of his other musings I agree with, just not this one. 

Anyway. 

I think most psych people will say there is a normal, healthy amount of noticing your child is becoming an adult and a sexual being.  For most people, there is a boundary, and so it's not even in the forefront of the mind, and it does not lead to weird fantasies, or active abuse, covert or otherwise.  For most people, there is an "ick" factor triggered, and a concern that your kids don't get themselves hurt with their forays into adult relationships beyond holding hands.  Moms and dads remember what THEY tried to get away with, and assume you might be just as or more creative.  BPD parents one up this, assuming we ARE them, or an extension of them, making us tools for their use to meet their emotional needs, not having any needs of our own.

My father, I think, may have had some inclinations, sick ideas, that he may have even shared with my mother, about me.  He never liked me to "like" any boys, and certainly did not take well to me getting a BF finally in college at 19 years old.  He responded by kicking me out and seeking to humiliate me in front of his family, and my BF's family.  His copying and mailing out to family members of my diary where I wrote private things a young girl in her first relationship writes, was likely partly driven by sick jealousy.  That's not normal when your 19 year old honor list college student daughter on a full scholarship simply wants to see a movie on valentines day (yup - kicked me out ON valentines day.  He liked to ruin that day, making sure the year before to notify me ON valentines day of deaths on my mom's family that had occurred months previous - "here's some chocloate, by the way, your uncle and granddaddy die, like one 6 months back, one last year"). 

Mom was constantly making comments he'd prefer me to her, I needed to be sure to be 100% fully clothed at all times.  Even at 13 I was showing I'd be larger than her A-cup, and she resented it I think.  HE freaked out about me wearing shorts or knee-length dresses when I was 15, telling me my new church dress was trampy because when I sat it hiked up to just at my knee.  So I became self-conscious, and resorted to wearing jeans in all weather again (used to when I was small to hide the belt marks on legs), and felt so ugly, so in need of being covered, I had this shapeless, dumpy windbreaker/raincoat I wore every single day, everywhere I went.  I looked like a giant raisin.  It was like my daytime security blanket (and I will admit I needed my childhood blankey to sleep until I was 22), and the few places I could not get by wearing it (church, mostly) I felt horrible and ashamed and awkward.  I hid behind my hair, looked down when I walked, was afraid to do things like wear make up other than to hide zits.  I'd put it on, then wipe it off before getting to school. 

Anyway - Dad prided himself on being a "good Christian" father.  He even stated in his disownership letter he was doing his duty as a good Christan father by kicking me out and canceling all my health insurance. 

But he liked drinking, dancing, strip clubs, etc, all things a Baptist isn't supposed to like.  And so he had lots of shame and guilt about that, and I know it likely caused a lot of the fights at home, with him and Mom trying to pawn each other's guilt and unhappiness off on each other, as well as onto me.

So, if he DID have sick ideas about me, with NPD/BPD/ASD he certainly would have no problems blaming his sickness on me, and punishing me for his ideas.

Star, may I ask if you went through periods where one parent was "painted white" just so you could manage life with the other?  My dad was horrible, but in my mid teens I needed to believe one of the was somehow "good" so I painted him white for a while, and like a good Stockholm's child, painted my mom black and pretended to not notice anything bad about my dad, it must all be my fault when he's mad. 

There is no doubt to me that both your parents engaged in sexual abuse/assault against you.

And yes, mothers abuse their kids AND partners - it's not just men being aggressors.  Society likes to pretend otherwise, but head over to the partner boards and you can see women as not just victims.  Today, your dad could have been arrested for child pornography, filming you in a tub. 

I am so sorry - all of this is ick.  I hope "talking" about it is helping.

[Star0009]

Thanks Harri as always for your response and help.
It was def. also emotional incest with my mother. She told me from a very young age all of the women my dad was sleeping with. I was told to care for her and my siblings by my grandmother. I know I mentioned at age 9 someone was sex calling her and she told me about it and put me on the phone with him to listen. Around that time I was also flashed walking alone to school. I ran home but my Mom just drove me to school late but nobody talked to me about it. I was very shy and thought he was coming after me. My Mom was pretty much my only friend except for one other girl she tried to ruin later. She also started physically abusing me on some occasions again. I started having nightmares at that age which still scare me today. We would visit my dad on the weekends but he was living out of his office so we would sleep in one of the rooms. Since I was supposed to be the mother I convinced him he needed to buy Christmas parents for us. I was so surprised when he had all these toys when we arrived for Christmas. He then put me in a room with wrapping paper and told me none of the stuff was for me and had me warp it for my siblings and give it to them. I was about 7 or 8.

isilme your story is hard to read and different than mine but i understand the extreme dysfunction. I can't imagine what you have gone thru. I feel more support and understanding here than with some therapists. Our lives are different but the patterns are just as deep and abusive. To answer your question yes my mom painted my dad black as a kid and I was scared of him but she made it worse sending people to spy on his visits with us, hiding us in rooms from him, bribing me with gifts to talk to him etc. My dad however also had detectives chasing us. Once I turned 12 and I started to rebel and got that boyfriend is when my Mom physically and as I mentioned sexually assaulted me at least several times a week. She was jealous. She is always jealous. Thats when I started to call my dad who would come pick me up because I couldn't even go home without getting attacked. He loved this chance to paint my Mom black and I painted him white all thru my middle/high school years even though he verbally and emotionally abused me after the first two years of living with him and it got worse as time went on. My friends all knew something was wrong with my Mom but loved my dad.  I once told him to hide his guns that I was suicidal it got so bad with him and he told me to go kill myself he had to go back to work but he was also my friend. It was like night and day. I never knew if i would get love or hate and I never called him out on his abuse I just took it because he would have looked like a sad child if I said anything bad about him.  As far as him filming me. This is something I had to think about. Just like my Mom I don't know what made him like he was. He was alway eccentric, well educated, artistic and directly from Europe so I had to take this into account today. i know it was a new video camera when they first came out. He knew not to cross boundaries I think but maybe that did make him angry. I had to ask myself did he know I was fooling around with this boyfriend all weekend as he was allowed to stay all day in a locked room with me ? yes. he must have. As I was fully developed and dressing promiscuous as a young girl so when I took a bath to get ready to go to the movies he thought it was fun to film me and invite my boyfriend in and film him too. Not ok. I don't know why he did it. Maybe just as more control over maybe? To degrade me maybe most likely in some way because I was so embarrassed finding it a year later and felt guilt all these years that I threw it away because my older brother/ the golden child had filmed his friends after me but of course I was right to not want that floating around. I would feel disgusted if I saw it today. What grossed me out even more today thinking about it was I had a stepdad I lived with my Mom from age 10 and 11 but i was starting to rebel and would fight with him. He also sexualized me at times. After they split up my dad friended him to trash talk my Mom. When I lived with my dad in high school and painted him white my old step dad invited me to his annual Christmas party. I went feeling older and more mature to be nice as he did support us. My dad went on and on how I wanted to be like my mother and be with the same men as her and thats why I was going to see him because I was attracted to him. It was so gross. I had and have zero sexual attraction to him,  he has since passed but I simply went as a teenager to make amends and because I was painting my dad white it was to go against my mother. Bottom line I think my dad was very confused about women in general. I think he might have also been hurt this man played a father role in my life. I don't know but it does not excuse how he treated women and possibly young ladies he tried to seduce. Sorry if this moved off topic of the main thread. I felt the need to respond but you can move it or whatever if need be. Thanks for everyones feedback.

[Turkish]

Pearz,

We may have kind of hijacked your thread a bit... .but as you can see you're not alone. 

How are you feeling?

[Harri]

We have a thread that discusses Emotional or Covert Incest: discussing it and healing from it here if anyone wants to read through it in addition to continuing the discussion here.