Help End an Endless Cycle

[Bad Husband?]

This is actually my second post on here because I had to reply to a post I found on here through google (Is it me or her). It's too much for me to copy into here, so I guess to understand my situation you would have take the time to go to it and read it. That post is our marriage to the T except we have 3 children involved who seem to know we struggle with each other but they don't show any signs of it affecting them accept for my daughter. They all do great in school and sports and have wonderful personalities but my daughter has always been pretty much to herself, stays in her room a lot and goes places when we make her. She can over react and be way over dramatic at times and tell us to quit fighting when we're only having a small disagreement, but I guess that's what teenagers do. I don't know what else to try in my marriage. I've tried all the things mentioned in that post (Is it me or her) even to the point of backing off of her for over a year, and still no difference. I feel the same and she acts the same. What board should I be posting on or asking for advice on? Somebody please, if you have the time to read that post and come back to this one with some advice It would be greatly appreciated.

EDITED :  thread OP is referring to is here---> https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=279061.msg13004359#msg13004359

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[once removed]

hi Bad Husband?, and

the more i learn, i find that family dynamics are really complex things. we teach (and learn) a lot of stuff based on Bowen's Family Theory System, as well as the Karpman Drama Triangle which builds on the former.

how old are your children, particularly the daughter that struggles? how long have you been married?

is it your wife or your daughter that you suspect of having BPD, or is it both?

[Bad Husband?]

Once removed, thank you so much for taking the time to read my post and the post I referred to! My boys are 9 and almost 16, and my daughter is 13. My daughter is a totally separate story from what I’m trying to solve right now. She’s not a problem at all but can be very reclusive at times. We can talk about her separately though because I could use some advice with her. We’ve been married for almost 20 years now and it’s been the same struggle for me and her for probably 18 of those 20 years. I’m affectionate and she’s not. I really don’t think I’m overly affectionate or clingy than most other guys because I can spot that and call it out from a mile away. She hardly ever initiates any affection or intimacy and I almost always feel like she doesn’t want me and she’s jut trying to keep the peace with me when does accept my attempts at affection or intimacy. i do get upset when she turns me down and/or literally pushes me away when I attempt to initiate and she gets even more defensive. FYI, I never resort to violence or screaming, my anger is usually a negative sarcastic comment or silence. I’ve tried many different approaches to our problem but am to the point that I feel like I’ve been trying to fit a square peg in a round hole for all these years. I’ve changed my approach many different times and have gone as far as completely backing off from any initiation for over a year. Still she’s the same, and my desire for affection and validation is the same. I’ve gotten to the point to where I literally feel bi-polar (I probably spelled that wrong). Some days or weeks I feel great and happy and some days and weeks I feel like a completely miserable human being that absolutely nothing makes me happy or takes the bad feeling away. I deal with very mild depression (self diagnosed) and slightly more than moderate anxiety (diagnosed and medication). In my opinion, which I’m sure is biased, not all, but most of my anxiety comes from my wife’s inability to be affectionate and failure to initiate intimacy. I’m not asking at all for any advice on staying or going. I’m wondering if there is another approach that I can take to make myself accept this situation and appreciate my blessings in life. I’m dead set convinced that she will never change. So the only way to make this marriage successful is for me to be able to live with things the way they are. Any advice is greatly appreciated.

[Harri]

Hi Bad Husband? and welcome to the board.  I am sorry for the circumstances that brought you here but happy that you found us.  You landed in a place where many others can relate to what you experience.  We get it here so you are in good company.

It is difficult when one half of a couple have different needs for affection and intimacy even without BPD behaviors in the mix.  Was your relationship always like this or has your wife's behavior changed?  You mentioned you are on medication for anxiety but suspect you have mild depression as well.  Have you talked with your doctor about taking a med for depression?  Sometimes a boost can help.

Have you had a chance to look over at the right hand side of this page?  There are a series of links that lead to some great articles about BPD behaviors, relationship tools and communication strategies.  I have found that understanding what lies beneath the behaviors associated with BPD helps a great deal with depersonalizing them.  Check them out and if you have any questions you can ask them here.

Again, I am glad you found us and decided to post.   

[once removed]

being in a marriage without intimacy is really, really tough. my heart goes out to you.

there is, in many cases, a fear of intimacy with BPD traits. when would you say this started?

are there ways outside of touch that she does show affection or love? words? actions?

[Bad Husband?]

Harri and once removed, there’s no way for me to be specific here without writing a novel, so my apologies for the length of this. First of all, I after all of the articles I’ve read on here, I really don’t think either of us has or displays signs of BPD, but I’m not a professional by any means. I’d say basically yes, she’s always been less affectionate than I’d prefer, now more than ever though. Not suddenly, but it’s decreased over time with one noticeable drop off when we turned 35-36 or so (We’re both 43 now). Right around that time things were getting kind of stale in our relationship, so I brought porn into our bedroom in hopes of spicing things up a bit. And boy it sure did! For about 2 months we had sex almost nightly, and occasionally during the day in spontaneous locations. The best we’ve ever had, and I couldn’t have been a happier man. I was even getting comments at from co-workers and friends saying how happy I looked and I had a glow to my personality (which I’ve never been accused of). She seemed to be the same, she’s even told me that co-workers commented about how happy she looked and a friend at work “could tell what she did last night”. Then one night I messed up and asked her if she was happy with us.  We had a sit down heart to heart talk and learned things about each other we never knew. I learned that she felt like sex was being forced on her (which for the past two months there was no way I would have known, because she was initiating almost as much as I was). I learned that for years she’s felt like I’d been forcing her to do things she didn’t want to do, she didn’t like to passionately kiss, and she wasn’t happy with the way our marriage was going. She said that she loved me, but wasn’t sure if she was in love with me anymore. She learned from me that except for the past two months I’ve always felt like she didn’t want me, that she’s never loved me as much as I loved her, that I’ve always wished she would initiate anything in or out of the bed room, and that I really never felt appreciated, and that I finally thought that our lives had turned around. I told her I’d never been happier than I’d been in the last two months of our relationship. Well, that was it. She stopped cooking, stopped passionately kissing, sex dropped off to 1-2 time a month, we both got into really good shape by joining a gym to keep ourselves occupied I guess, along with some other positive and negative things that happened around that time. We even kicked divorce around once or twice but kept it together for the children. I started getting lonely and feeling rejected again, and got really emotional and resentful towards her. I’d have good weeks and bad weeks. Got put on anxiety meds, but still would have the same lonely and rejected feelings only I’d be a little more chilled about it. I came to accept that this is the way our marriage was going to be, that the past two months were some kind of fluke, and that cycle continues to today. I had a really bad week a couple of weeks ago. I had spent the entire prior week of evenings after work helping my son with his truck audio system. Then I spent that entire weekend repairing his four wheeler. He then turned me down that Monday evening when I asked him to come help me pull up a couple of floor boards at my dad’s house (who passed away at the beginning of this year). He turned me down because I wouldn’t allow him to take his truck there because we haven’t put insurance on it yet. I gave him two chances to come with me, asked him, didn’t force him, and he still refused because he couldn’t go in his truck. She didn’t support my two attempts Monday evening to get him to come with me, and what made matters worse was she had told me the prior week that she was going to help me do some chores in the yard that weekend. Well instead of helping me, she made a sudden decision to take my son and his girlfriend shopping that for homecoming stuff that Saturday (all day) while I was home (alone, lonely and angry) doing chores and repairing a four wheeler for my son who, I didn’t know at the time, was about to turn me down for 30 minutes of help at my dad’s. I was really angry and lonely that week after and they all knew it. My wife and I had another talk that Tuesday night because tensions were so high in the house you could feel it, and I told her exactly why. She replied that I’m very moody (which I am and did not deny) but I told her that my moodiness comes from her leaving me feeling lonely and alone in everything I do. She apologized for not helping me that Saturday, but she’s not happy. She says she can’t talk about her feelings, that she doesn’t know how she feels about us, and my moods really bring her down and make her feel unhappy. She even said that maybe she is the problem, and maybe she needs to go talk to someone (which I know is not going to happen if I don’t set something up for her). I asked if she wants to separate and she says she doesn’t know. I told her I think that we can get along together well enough to raise the kids in a non-hostile environment and she passed the comment that if we did start to argue and fight that it would be worse for the kids. Well we left it alone since last Tuesday night and I fought the entire week to only cry on my way home from work and not let her or the kids see how I felt. I talked to my son and explained to him that what he did was not to happen again and if it did, that the consequences would be extreme. He was very receptive and apologetic to me about it. I stayed in a good mood the rest of the week through this past weekend, not making any extra advances toward her except for our normal morning and bed time peck, hug, and the routine “I love you” before parting for work or going to sleep. This weekend she actually somewhat initiated sex Saturday morning and it was good, but she continues to act as if we never had that conversation. I can’t stop thinking about it and am learning more about depression and anxiety through reading the articles linked in this site. I’m really thinking hard about going see a therapist to get a real diagnosis on rather its anxiety or depression that I have and what I need to do to get my feelings under control. I’m still feeling very lonely, and my self-esteem is in the gutter. I haven’t been eating much, partly to try to lose a little weight, but mostly because I’m just not hungry, and I’ve been hitting the gym a lot harder to keep myself occupied. Sorry for the novel, but that’s the only way I know to give the full story at least from my point of view.

[Harri]

Hi again.  I am sorry it took me a bit to get back to this.  Thank you for sharing more of your story.  It does sound difficult and as I was reading all I could think was that you sound depressed.  Not that you don't have reason but depression makes everything so much harder.

You said your wife mentioned she might talk to someone but you doubt that will happen.  Even if she does not go, you can.  Things can't continue as they are and since the only person you can change is you, I think talking with a professional may be a good idea.

I’m really thinking hard about going see a therapist to get a real diagnosis on rather its anxiety or depression that I have and what I need to do to get my feelings under control. I’m still feeling very lonely, and my self-esteem is in the gutter. I haven’t been eating much, partly to try to lose a little weight, but mostly because I’m just not hungry, and I’ve been hitting the gym a lot harder to keep myself occupied. Sorry for the novel, but that’s the only way I know to give the full story at least from my point of view.

Have you ever been to therapy?  I am in it now and have been off and on over time.  I am also on a medication for depression and another for anxiety and I find them to be very helpful.  Therapy can be very helpful but it is a lot of hard work too.

It is good that you are exercising, but you have to eat too.  Self care is critical especially when depression and anxiety are in the mix. 

Keep posting and reading, ask questions and jump into other threads here too.  It is important that you have a solid support base and we can be that for you too.  Reaching out to others will help you to see your own situation more clearly and it will build a network of people you can reach out to as well.

I hope to hear from you again.

[once removed]

First of all, I after all of the articles I’ve read on here, I really don’t think either of us has or displays signs of BPD, but I’m not a professional by any means.

the really good news is that the tools and skills taught here work with everyone. they can help you better see others, and yourself. they are relationship skills, and "skills for life". i use them all the time.

for example, while it sounds like things werent resolved, there was a great deal of benefit in the heart to heart talks you had with your wife, and you both spoke honestly without hurting each other.

i think that it would serve you greatly to focus hard on what she was telling you. what do you think she needs from you? if you dont know, it wouldnt hurt to ask, to listen, and to give it, without expecting anything to return. invest.

it certainly sounds like you would benefit a great deal from therapy. id get to it yesterday. it helps that your wife is interested as well, and she might be inclined to follow your lead. do you think theres any possibility, eventually (id focus on yourself first), of couples therapy?

[Bad Husband?]

I’ve been to therapy before. We both have together and separate, but I don’t think we went long enough to make any real progress. She completely gave up on it when the therapist told her she sounded like she didn’t even want to have children (which I know is not accurate). I’d like to go again, but I’m just so time limited with three kids in sports which 2 of them play multiple sports. There’s no way I want to deprive them of those opportunities. I’ll work harder on finding a way to fit it in. I agree with y’all, I think it would really benefit me.
Once removed, I really try to listen and read her mind about what she wants/needs from me, but I still have no idea what it is. Maybe I’m not trying hard enough, and maybe a therapist can help me with that. Thanks so much for y’all’s input. I’ll keep you up to date on any new developments and keep reading these articles. Thanks again!

[once removed]

We both have together and separate, but I don’t think we went long enough to make any real progress. She completely gave up on it when the therapist told her she sounded like she didn’t even want to have children (which I know is not accurate).

they say therapists are like shoes. you have to try on a few. and yes, the longer the commitment the better.

Once removed, I really try to listen and read her mind about what she wants/needs from me, but I still have no idea what it is. Maybe I’m not trying hard enough, and maybe a therapist can help me with that.

try this... .https://bpdfamily.com/content/listen-with-empathy