Safety plan tips needed for grandson

[Only Human]

Good morning, I need help.

Some background:

My 25-year-old BPD daughter and her 4-year-old son have lived in my home since 4/2018. My D and I started family therapy a week or so before they moved in (as a condition of her moving in) and we also saw our family therapist separately. Within the last month, my daughter has been rejecting help and last week she informed me that she'll no longer participate in family or individual therapy. After a period of many years of not self-harming, she burned herself last week. Within the last few weeks, I've been working on myself and my boundaries and she is not having that at all. She has begun raging at her son, calling him spoiled, bad, etc., and lecturing him - you make me want to kill myself, and stuff. I don't know if she's physically abusing him but the psychological and emotional abuse is real and he's showing signs that he is afraid of her so I worry that she may be physically abusing him when I'm not around.

After he recently asked me, "Will you protect me?" I decided to make an emergency appt with the therapist and met with her yesterday. I told her I was considering calling CPS, asked her if she had done so already and she said she hadn't "yet" but after the things I told her yesterday, she said yes, she would call. I asked her why she hadn't called before and she said all she had was suspicion and emotional and psychological abuse is rarely acted upon by CPS since there are no outward signs. She suggested that I have a talk with her son starting with, "Remember when you asked if I would protect you? Can you tell me more about that? What are you afraid of?" and I will do that today. I will be alone with him today from around noon-6pm but he might take a nap in there. I'm nervous about this talk, hope I do it right, etc.

The therapist suggested I help him with ways he can keep himself safe. For example, if mommy is screaming at you, you can come to me - if I'm not here, you can go into your room. If mommy is hitting or kicking you, you can come to me. If I'm not here, you can go to (neighbor's house) and ask for help. And then I walk him to where I'm suggesting. The trouble with that is that the house is locked up so I don't know if he could get away and also, my street is a ghost town during the day with the exception of a few neighbors, most of which live on the other side of the street. My therapist suggested I prepare my neighbor(s) "We're working with (name) on what to do in an emergency, is it ok if I tell him he can come to you?" etc.

Given that it's unlikely that he'll get out of the house, and unlikely that someone will be home to receive him, I'm at a loss.

I also would like tips on what to say when we talk today. The therapist said it's okay to ask pointed questions, "Is mommy hitting you or kicking you or hurting your body?" but I feel like that's leading/suggesting. I'm so nervous about this talk and since I have a few hours, I want to take my time and let him open up. If she's physically abusing him, she may have told him not to tell anyone. I want to do this in a way that he feels love, trust, caring, rather than "Your mommy IS scary, trust me I know!" if that makes sense.

If he doesn't admit to any physical abuse, I'm still calling CPS and so is the therapist.

I'll post another thread about my request for help with my daughter. I fear that when I begin to step in with her raging at him (I've sat silently, feel so guilty and shamed) she will pack him up and leave with him. I don't mean she'll take him in the moment because I have a plan to stop that, "You're not taking him, I'm protecting him, you can leave to cool off, but he's staying with me," followed by a call to 911 if she persists. But I fear that she's already in "escape" mode and somehow she always has ways of finding someone else to take her in. Obviously, my goal is to keep them in my home and continue to work on my communication skills with her but I have no control over that and feel she will either leave and cut me out of her and her son's life, or she'll leave and allow me to see him but not disclose where she lives. Thus preventing any CPS follow up. Yes, he's in preschool but if she leaves, I believe she'll take him out so there's nowhere for CPS to find him. She already has accused me of wanting to be his mother, wanting to take him away from her, not respecting her place as his mother, etc.

Thanks!

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[Kwamina]

Hi Only Human

She suggested that I have a talk with her son starting with, "Remember when you asked if I would protect you? Can you tell me more about that? What are you afraid of?" and I will do that today.
…...
…... .
I'm so nervous about this talk and since I have a few hours, I want to take my time and let him open up.

This sounds like a good strategy to me, just start with gently asking what he meant when he asked you to protect him and indeed let him open up.

I definitely understand your concern for your grandson considering the recent deterioration in your daughter's behavior. Did anything happen (that you know of) that preceded this change in you daughter's behavior? Was she triggered by something?

She has begun raging at her son, calling him spoiled, bad, etc., and lecturing him - you make me want to kill myself, and stuff. I don't know if she's physically abusing him but the psychological and emotional abuse is real and he's showing signs that he is afraid of her so I worry that she may be physically abusing him when I'm not around.

Her treatment of her son is indeed concerning. I am glad you are there for him and are working on your safety planning now  

These resources can be helpful:

LESSONS: What can a parent do?

Crisis Safety Plan: When a family member has Borderline Personality Disorder

The Board Parrot

[Only Human]

Did anything happen (that you know of) that preceded this change in you daughter's behavior? Was she triggered by something?

I think it's been building for some time. I think the changes in my behavior have triggered her feeling of abandonment. My behavior changes are that I'm setting and keeping boundaries regarding her behavior toward me. I wonder if, now that she knows she's not going to get the reactions out of me that she once got, she's turning her behavior to her son. I have a lot of feelings about that, like guilt, but I know I'm doing the best thing for me and for my daughter by not allowing her to rage at me. As for the latest trigger - - I walked away from her when she told me for the 15th time in so many days that she's overwhelmed and wants to kill herself. Up to that point, her rages were mainly about her ex, his actions, inactions, etc. Why I walked away, I was triggered myself. I knew there was nothing I could say to make her stop spiraling downward. It was a reflex of my own. Prior to my walking away, she was crying about "when is it going to get better?" and she was referring to bedtime struggles with her son. I was getting the words out, "It will get better when it gets better," when she said, "It makes me want to kill myself." After I turned to walk away she stopped the crocodile tears (I think that's what they're called) and rained down on me with a storm of verbal abuse and "how could you just walk away from me when I say I want to kill myself?" I stopped leaving and said, "I know you're overwhelmed, I don't know how to help you, when you say you want to kill yourself, I shut down." As background, prior to this event, when she said she wanted to hurt or kill herself, I stayed and tried to be supportive, "I can see how overwhelmed you are, is there anything I can do?" I did not say, "Do you want me to take you to the hospital?" because the last time I did that, about a year ago, she was in my car and responded by jumping out and running away from me. In therapy she told me she will never kill herself, she's just blowing off steam, she's dramatic, etc.

Her treatment of her son is indeed concerning. I am glad you are there for him and are working on your safety planning now  

These resources can be helpful:

LESSONS: What can a parent do?

Crisis Safety Plan: When a family member has Borderline Personality Disorder

The Board Parrot

Thanks for the links, I'll check 'em out for sure. At this moment, I'm preparing for the return of my grandson who stayed with one of my daughter's friends last night. The friend is dropping him off. My daughter asked for more time away, overnight, so I have more time than I originally thought. I'm enjoying the break =)

[Kwamina]

I think you setting and enforcing/defending boundaries is indeed a healthy thing to do, to protect and preserve your own well-being. This indeed changes the dynamics of your relationship with your daughter and she clearly is having difficulty adjusting to this new reality. It is very sad that's she taking her frustration out on her little son now.

Dealing with threats of suicide isn't easy, even when you believe the other person isn't 'serious', caution is probably advisable. We also have some resources that can help you with this:

Dealing with suicidal ideation in others

Here's an excerpt:

How To Be Helpful to Someone Who Is Threatening Suicide
 

• Be direct. Talk openly and matter-of-factly about suicide.

• Be willing to listen. Allow expressions of feelings. Accept the feelings.

• Be non-judgmental. Don't debate whether suicide is right or wrong, or whether feelings are good or bad. Don't lecture on the value of life.

• Get involved. Become available. Show interest and support.

• Don't dare him or her to do it.

• Don't act shocked. This will put distance between you.

• Don't be sworn to secrecy. Seek support.

• Offer hope that alternatives are available but do not offer glib reassurance.

• Take action. Remove means, such as guns or stockpiled pills.

• Get help from persons or agencies specializing in crisis intervention and suicide prevention.

www.suicidepreventionlifeline.org

Good luck with your grandson later today

[Only Human]

Thank you. Good stuff.

My grandson opened up to me and told me my daughter hits him and kicks him.
 I just finished reading his bedtime stories and will call CPS as soon as he's asleep.

[Harri]

Hi Only Human.   

How are you?  I am so sorry to read of everything that is happening.  I am glad that you are taking steps to protect yourself and your grandson.  I am glad he felt safe enough with you to share that his mom is kicking him.  How heartbreaking and scary for the both of you.

Please keep us posted with how you are doing.   

[Only Human]

Hi Only Human.   

How are you? 

I'm scared. CPS is coming tomorrow to investigate. I'm scared that they'll take him and I'm scared they won't. I'm scared of my daughter when she's not taking care of her mental health. I know that now. My main concern is my grandson's well-being. I'm also doing a bit of future tripping because that's my personality. I can make a mountain out of a molehill better than anyone else I know.

I am glad he felt safe enough with you to share that his mom is kicking him.  How heartbreaking and scary for the both of you.

Very. I'm so sad for him and also very proud of him. He's such a smart kid and I'm so sorry I let him down.

I called my son and he came over to support me. He, more than anyone else besides me, knows how my daughter can be. He's a very calming, clear headed young man so having him here was really nice.

[wendydarling]

Hi Only Human

I'm sorry to hear what's happening OH. You know you are doing the right thing protecting your grandson, you are scared how this may go, what is ahead. I'm glad to hear you have you son to support you, he is there for you, he understands is a blessing. 

You've acted swiftly, always remember this, keep it close to your heart during difficult times. 

Is your DD still taking her time out?

WDx

[Feeling Better]

Hi there Only Human

I'm scared. CPS is coming tomorrow to investigate. I'm scared that they'll take him and I'm scared they won't. I'm scared of my daughter when she's not taking care of her mental health. I know that now. My main concern is my grandson's well-being. I'm also doing a bit of future tripping because that's my personality. I can make a mountain out of a molehill better than anyone else I know.

I just want to say that, in my opinion, all of your fears are natural, I would be feeling the same way too in your situation, but you have self belief too, you know that you have done the right thing. Not just for your grandson but for you also. Sounds like your “future tripping” may be you catastrophizing, I can be pretty good at that too, sometimes it helps to just “breathe”

I called my son and he came over to support me. He, more than anyone else besides me, knows how my daughter can be. He's a very calming, clear headed young man so having him here was really nice.

That’s wonderful Only Human, I am so happy for you that you have that source of reliable support from your son x  

[Only Human]

Is your DD still taking her time out?

Yes, she'll be home at 4 today.

[Tinkerbelle]

Hi,
We learned of a  kids Verizon phone called a Gizmo that you can have programmed with your number, a trusted neighbor/ friend or 911. The problem would be if she knows of it. Good luck. You are brave to have her in the house. I am afraid of our daughter.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[wendydarling]

Yes, she'll be home at 4 today.

Deep breathe OH and exhale. Balance, centre you've done nothing wrong here with your DD. She maybe angry, she may be relieved? Has she every physically abused you OH?

Right here with you 

WDx

[Only Human]

She maybe angry, she may be relieved? Has she every physically abused you OH?

She has never physically abused me. She laid a hand on me once when she was 14 and I saw it as more of a boundary test than an assault. Nonetheless, I called the police. They were reluctant to take a report but I insisted and she ended up doing some community service. To this day she believes she didn't touch me and I "had her arrested" for yelling at me.

Here's how it went. She broke a rule and I stated the consequence. She raged and I walked away calmly saying, "nonetheless, you broke the rule so xxx." As I was walking away she followed me and put her hand on the back of my head and pushed, not hard. That's why I believe it was a boundary test. She hasn't touched me since but she's a big fan of slamming doors and raging, name calling, etc.

As an adolescent, she punched holes in the walls, which I insisted that she fix, tore the thermostat off the wall, and once kicked my bedroom door in. She paid for the thermostat and the door repair out of her allowance. I was much better at sticking to my boundaries when she was young. Now she is a mother and I think I walk on eggshells so she won't take him away from me as she has done in the past for brief periods.

[wendydarling]

Only Human, I'm glad to hear your daughter has not touched you since, you did all the right things communicating your limits, explaining consequences and acting, seeing it through. I also understand how difficult this is for you, protecting your grandson is No1 as you did for yourself all those years ago and helping your daughter to a better place. 

We are all here for you, when you next post.

WDx

[Only Human]

Thank you all. I'm here to be honest and I wasn't entirely honest. It was an omission I was afraid to put out there. I left out that I saw a bruise on his butt a day before or the day he asked if I would protect him. I've seen bruises on his butt in the past and when I asked her about them, she told me he fell. I was suspicious but he's a rough and tumble boy so I hoped what my daughter was telling me was true. I didn't question her further because I was afraid of her reaction if I did. Each time, I casually asked my grandson, "Oh you have an owie on your butt, what happened?" but he either didn't respond at all or said he didn't know. I didn't press it, I'm not a social worker and I didn't want to say something to him that would make him make something up. The current bruise is bigger than the bruises in the past and I was afraid to ask my daughter about it at all because I didn't know if I could quietly accept her answer of, "he fell." I asked my grandson about it and he said he didn't know.

When I talked to my therapist, I didn't tell her about the bruise.

Sorry for not being honest with you all about this. I'm committed to this work I'm doing and wanted to come clean. As they say in AA, our secrets keep us sick.

I'll post later about the fall-out of the CPS call. For now, the cliff notes:

A social worker came, didn't interview her son because my daughter wasn't home and couldn't give consent. The social worker called my daughter and she came home immediately. She asked if I called and I lied. Today I told her I lied, that I called CPS. She raged at me, called me names, and said she was moving out right this minute. I told her I wasn't letting her take GS, that I was protecting him. Things got physical and I called 911. The officers were here for quite a while. It was traumatizing for us all. Afterwards, she and I had the most honest talk ever. Validating from me, loud-but-not-yelling from her. Yes, she told me she hates me, that I betrayed her, that she'll never trust me again, and more. She asked if I was sorry I called and I told her I wasn't. She told me things have only gotten worse since I walked away from her when she told me she wanted to kill herself and I apologized sincerely, "I'm sorry I walked away, I'm sorry I let you down." I told her I love her, we need more support, I'm concerned for her, I'm concerned for him, I'm concerned for us and CPS can help us. I did my best to listen, validate, and answer all her questions honestly. I beat around the bush a bit, though. Baby steps.

Her questions:

Why did you call? (I can't remember my exact words here)

Did you talk to (our family therapist) about this? Yes and she also called CPS.

If you knew (family therapist) was going to call, why did you call? Didn't you think it was enough for her to call? (Family therapist) doesn't know the things I know.

Do you think I deserve to have (son) taken from me? No

Do you think I'm a bad mom? No

Do you think I'm beating him? (I beat around the bush)

Why can't you answer my direct question? Because I'm afraid of your reaction.

That means you think I'm beating him.  

I used the word "support" instead of "help,"

There is, obviously, more to this. I can't remember because I was emotionally charged. I have a portable recorder that was in my pocket. She doesn't know I was recording and I have no intention of sharing it with anyone. I record stuff because I forget or rewrite history and I want to stop doing that.

She's at her social worker appointment now.

[Kwamina]

Thanks for the update Only Human

This is a lot to deal with  Nobody is really born prepared to deal with people with BPD, we often need to find our way through a sometimes painful process of trial and error. 'Fortunately' many others have already gone through that process and we can learn from their experiences. That's why it's great that you're continuing to reach out here for support and advice

I think the bruises you saw were indeed a significant red flag. Yet I can also see why you would want to hope for the best and just hope that your fears and suspicions wouldn't be the actual reality. Unfortunately based on the physical evidence you've seen on your grandson, what your grandson told you and your daughter's volatile behavior, it seems quite possible that your daughter is indeed physically abusing your grandson.

Take care and know that we are here for you as you go through this

The Board Parrot

[Only Human]

That's why it's great that you're continuing to reach out here for support and advice

This site is helping me so much. Right now I'm in crisis and posting helps me. The feedback and support is just what I need right now. Thank you all.

it seems quite possible that your daughter is indeed physically abusing your grandson.

Yes, I believe she is abusing him.

My therapist said to me, "You’re trying so hard to protect your daughter, at what point do we try to save the next generation, you’ve done everything to help and support, and protect her and give her possible support, she’s rejecting."

I'm trying to save the world, I know that. I was honest when I said I didn't think she deserved to have her son taken from her. I believe everyone can be helped and I hope this experience will be her rock bottom. I'm not seeing any signs of that at the moment, however, as she is angry and blaming me for ruining her life by giving her a record with CPS. This tells me so much but I continue to hold out hope. I feel so weak at times. I don't know if I should be standing guard beside my grandson every second of the day or what? Part of me wants to give her a chance to take advantage of the services CPS has to offer, the other part wants to kick her to the curb and apply for guardianship of my grandson.

My grandson continues to open up to me gradually and I find it super easy to validate him. He trusts me. He asked if I called the police because he was screaming. I told him no, I called the police because his mommy wasn't being safe. I told him the police officers help families and we need help. He asked me, "Do the police make people be good again?" I am sure my answer wasn't the right one but nothing else was coming to mind. I said "Yes." My daughter is on her best behavior right now. My grandson is enjoying her attention but continues to come to me with his needs. I know he's very confused about the whole thing.

She has "informed" me that she intends to take on all parental responsibilities. That she doesn't want my help and I've got to learn my place as his grandma. I asked her what that looks like and she said, in summary, "no parenting my son, back off." Then she berates me for not telling him to be quieter. "Wow, you're sitting right here and you're not correcting him," or something like that. In one breath she tells me she no longer wants my help with anything, in the other breath she asked if I will take him to preschool on Tuesdays and Thursdays. I said I would. I worry that I'm still enabling her. I worry that I'm too weak to help my grandson. It's like, if after meeting with the social worker, they didn't "take" him, what right do I have to hover?

I'm rambling now, goodnight and thank you.

[wendydarling]

This site is helping me so much. Right now I'm in crisis and posting helps me. The feedback and support is just what I need right now. Thank you all.

OH, , bless you. like you most parents here, we are in crisis when we join. I was 3 years ago, staying with the forum, daily posting as you are, helped me and other parents here out of the bucket, rabbit hole, off the rollercoaster to see clearly what's happening and honestly as you are and act.

I also believe everyone can, deserves to help as you say. You are reaching out to connect with your daughter, despite all and I commend you for that.

Are you finding time to self care, through all? I'd come home from work and lie on the lounge floor for 10 mins, that sinking feeling, the floor holding me, silent mind. Every little helps when we are in crisis.

WDx  

[Only Human]

You are reaching out to connect with your daughter, despite all and I commend you for that.

Man, it's tough. Yesterday I told her I loved her and it was not well received. I have been reluctant to reach out again.

Are you finding time to self care, through all?

Not yet but tonight I plan to take a shower and get to bed early.

~ OH

[Panda39]

... .she asked if I will take him to preschool on Tuesdays and Thursdays. I said I would. I worry that I'm still enabling her. I worry that I'm too weak to help my grandson.

I think taking your Grandson to preschool is good for him.  Continuing his routine, getting him to his friends, and normalcy.  To me this isn't about enabling your daughter, but is about taking care of your Grandson. At the risk of being invalidating, I think it is a pretty strong Grandma that can call CPS when her daughter is abusing her Grandson and I think by calling them you have already helped your Grandson.  You have also been validating him which is also very helpful, you are his trusted adult. What makes this doubly hard is that you love them both.  You are walking a tough road. 

It's like, if after meeting with the social worker, they didn't "take" him, what right do I have to hover?

The right you have is that of an adult protecting a 4 year old from physical abuse by another adult.

Before I go, I want to say that yes being in crisis is hard, really hard, but it doesn't have to be bad.  You have a situation where you are a "Civilian" and not equipped to manage this alone, you called in the "Professionals" to help that's what a smart person does when they're in over their head. I assume CPS will come up with a plan for your daughter and grandson, once they do you will likely have a more clear idea of what your role should or shouldn't be.

Hang in there,
Panda39

[Turkish]

My T told me that reporting results in shining a flashlight into the situation which results in perils being notified that things aren't hidden anymore.  He was paraphrasing Supreme Court Justice Louis Brandeis, "sunlight is said to be the best of disinfectants." I got a lot of blow-back and pain when I reported, but it signaled that I wasn't going to hide abuse. Even so, I felt a lot of guilt,  but it eventually turned out ok,  despite the static and blame shifting.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[Only Human]

I think taking your Grandson to preschool is good for him.  Continuing his routine, getting him to his friends, and normalcy.  To me this isn't about enabling your daughter, but is about taking care of your Grandson.

I like your viewpoint, Panda39, thank you. I talked with my best friend about it today, about my fear that my daughter will use the time together (after dropping GS off) to sling insults and be rude to me. We came up with a plan if that happens: Sit in silence. If she asks why I'm silent, say "I won't engage with you when you're verbally abusing me." Upon arriving at home, I would inform her that I'm not taking him to preschool the next day (Tuesday or Thursday). After reading your feedback, I've decided to revise my statement: "I'm happy to take GS to preschool but I will only do it if you refrain from verbally abusing me in the car. If you verbally abuse me on (the next day), then I will only take him to preschool without you in the car.

At the risk of being invalidating, I think it is a pretty strong Grandma that can call CPS when her daughter is abusing her Grandson and I think by calling them you have already helped your Grandson.  You have also been validating him which is also very helpful, you are his trusted adult.

Thank you for saying so. I must remember this.

What makes this doubly hard is that you love them both.  You are walking a tough road.   

I'm having a very hard time loving my daughter right now.

The right you have is that of an adult protecting a 4 year old from physical abuse by another adult.

Again, thank you. I'm off work this week due to this, but I can't be present every second of the day and I'll be back at work next week.

I assume CPS will come up with a plan for your daughter and grandson, once they do you will likely have a more clear idea of what your role should or shouldn't be.

This is a good point. I'm so worried that CPS will buy into the BS that she's likely spewing. I hear her telling her friends how I called CPS because I'm mad at her that she's not getting help for her mental health, that I am trying to take her son from her, and even... ."My mom slapped me across the face all the time and when I threatened to call CPS she said, 'Go right ahead, I'm allowed to hit you as long as I don't leave a mark." This never happened. I hope and pray this will not be an open and shut case.

[Only Human]

My T told me that reporting results in shining a flashlight into the situation which results in perils being notified that things aren't hidden anymore.  He was paraphrasing Supreme Court Justice Louis Brandeis, "sunlight is said to be the best of disinfectants." I got a lot of blow-back and pain when I reported, but it signaled that I wasn't going to hide abuse. Even so, I felt a lot of guilt,  but it eventually turned out ok,  despite the static and blame shifting.

Thank you Turkish. As sorry I am that you were put in the same position I am in, I'm glad to know I'm not alone.

I've been suspicious for about a year that my daughter or her BF (not my grandson's dad) were abusing him. As I'm looking at things from this new perspective, so many things make sense. My GS has told me a few times that he doesn't like mommy, that she doesn't love him, that he wants her to go away.

I also am looking at some of his behaviors differently. For example, he pinches me sometimes and sometimes he grabs my finger with both hands and twists. He also steps on my feet. He wakes up crying in the middle of the night.

The emotional abuse is also heartbreaking. She has told him he makes her want to kill herself, she doesn't want to be a mother anymore, she wants to run away forever, and more. She calls him a crybaby, a brat, selfish, spoiled.

I have called the social worker and told her I want to make an appointment to talk more. She said she'd call me back yesterday. Still no word. I'll call her tomorrow.

[Panda39]

I like your viewpoint, Panda39, thank you. I talked with my best friend about it today, about my fear that my daughter will use the time together (after dropping GS off) to sling insults and be rude to me. We came up with a plan if that happens: Sit in silence. If she asks why I'm silent, say "I won't engage with you when you're verbally abusing me." Upon arriving at home, I would inform her that I'm not taking him to preschool the next day (Tuesday or Thursday). After reading your feedback, I've decided to revise my statement: "I'm happy to take GS to preschool but I will only do it if you refrain from verbally abusing me in the car. If you verbally abuse me on (the next day), then I will only take him to preschool without you in the car.

I like your plan, boundaries are so key when you have someone with BPD in your life.  Your friend sounds lovely, it's great that you can bounce ideas off of them.
 

I'm having a very hard time loving my daughter right now.

Completely natural given the situation. 

This is a good point. I'm so worried that CPS will buy into the BS that she's likely spewing. I hear her telling her friends how I called CPS because I'm mad at her that she's not getting help for her mental health, that I am trying to take her son from her, and even... ."My mom slapped me across the face all the time and when I threatened to call CPS she said, 'Go right ahead, I'm allowed to hit you as long as I don't leave a mark." This never happened. I hope and pray this will not be an open and shut case.

I know it's hard to hear this stuff, it's what she has to do to deal with her own feelings... .blame shifting, painting you black... .she can't handle her feelings so she has to put them on you.  You know what is true and what isn't, those who know and love you wouldn't believe this stuff for a minute.  Anyone who does... .do you need those people in your life anyway?

You didn't do this to your daughter, she did this to herself.  You called CPS, the Therapist called CPS and anyone else aware of what was going on would have called too. There are always consequences to our actions. 

The focus to me at this point has to be on your Grandson, he's 4 he can't protect himself.  Your daughter is an adult and she can take care of herself.

Panda39

[Only Human]

Thank you thank you thank you all. I'm so very grateful for the support I am getting from all of you. I don't know why it's so hard for me to see things as clearly as you all.

Since learning that I was the person who called CPS, my daughter has sent conflicting messages to me.

• You betrayed me, I want a strictly professional relationship with you and when I move out you will never see me or GS again
• I will take over all parenting responsibilities. You will not be doing bedtime stories. I'm doing that. Your place is his grandma, I'm his mother.
• Do you think he should be wearing a jacket? I think he needs some quiet time before preschool, what time do you think that should be?  (I have responded, that's your call, or that's up to you, or something similar)
• No parenting GS
• Why aren't you parenting GS?
• (After my telling her I LOVE YOU) I don't want to talk to you unless GS is in the room
• (While GS was not in the room) Random dialogue about her phone not working, or she's frustrated about something, or "I have diarrhea, no wonder my stomach has been hurting."
  
• (after GS asked if I would read bedtime stories) Daughter told him, "OH will read your stories tomorrow, I'm doing it tonight."
• I don't need your help getting GS to preschool
• Can you take GS to preschool on Tuesdays and Thursdays?
• BF fell through, will you take GS to preschool today? (This was Wednesday but I'm off all week due to this CPS issue. I said I would.)
• Nevermind, my friend will take GS to preschool today (I responded, ok. Then she went on to tell me why, etc., and I didn't really listen because she said she wanted a strictly professional relationship with me so I was doing my best to not interact with her on a personal level, at her request, but then I said, "GS thinks I'm taking him to preschool today, what do you think we should do about that? *yep, I blew it. She replied, "I'll tell him" I said, "I think that's a good plan," and she replied, "I said I'd tell him, god, do you really think I'm not going to tell him? I said, "That's not what I said" and left it alone

Today GS said to me, "You're taking us to preschool today!" I said, "I'm taking you to preschool today?" He said, "Yeah," I said, "oh!"

Since I wasn't aware that I was taking him today, I said to my daughter, "GS says I'm taking him to preschool today." Here's the rest of that conversation:

Daughter: Yeah, I thought you were taking him to preschool. I told you yesterday that (friend) was taking him yesterday but since I didn't know if she could take him today and today is Thursday, that I need you to take him today.

Me: Okay, I'm glad we talked about it.

Daughter: Yeah, me too

Note: It's a common complaint of hers that I forget what we talked about and she's right. I believe it's because I tune her out because she talks incessantly. It's rarely a short interaction, it's exhausting. She also complains that I don't answer her questions and I believe that's because the question comes at the beginning or in the middle of her 40-second rambling in which she includes some personal insults directed at me, and by the time she's finished, I've forgotten the question because I'm reeling. When I ask her what the question was, she huffs, "You weren't listening to me, nevermind." So frustrating!

Also earlier today, we were all in the living room and Daughter was occasionally attempting to engage with me on a personal/co-parenting level. For example, "I think he should be on take-5 for that, he knows what he's doing, he's pushing it and manipulating you." I ignored her because I didn't agree with her - I believed his behavior was age-appropriate. She began counting him for showing signs of frustration (learned by her) like grunting or shouting, "I can't do it!" and I kept silent. She got to "two" and he stopped. A few minutes later he and I had an interaction in which I began counting him at "one" and she said, "Why isn't that "three? I already got to "two." I ignored her. Once GS was on "five" and in his bedroom she said, "Why aren't we counting together? That's what the book said we should do." (She's right, that's what the book says to do) and I replied, "I'm trying to give you what you asked for, a professional relationship, so I'm doing my own thing." She replied, "That's confusing to kids," and she's right.

Until recently, we were co-parenting. In the last few weeks, she has skipped past "one" and "two" and gone straight to, "THAT'S THREE, TAKE FIVE!" followed by a lecture while she's following him to his room and, when he screams, she shuts his door. I attempted to discuss this with her and she basically told me she's not doing that anymore, he knows he's pushing it, he's manipulating us, she's tired of letting him get away with stuff, I baby him, I spoil him, and more. When I've attempted to keep with the "that's one" "that's two," "that's three, take five," she has intervened at "one" or "two" and stepped in with, "GS, take five!" followed by, "I don't know why you let him get away with that, you know he's manipulating you, pushing it, he knows right from wrong, I'm sick of him being a brat around you, he doesn't do this when you're not here, etc." Elsewhere on this board I posted my only attempt to discuss this with her where she basically told me, "tough luck, I'm doing it my way."

I've been googling, "How to discipline a child who has been physically abused" and it's more geared to when the abuser is not in the same home. I believe my grandson needs loving care AND discipline but I hesitate to discipline him for certain things. Like screaming, "I'm so ***king frustrated!" or yelling, "You make me want to run away!" Yes, he's cussing, yes he's yelling. But this is learned behavior and he's parroting her words, "you're so rude to me!" "Why won't you listen to me?" etc. I think this may be my attempt to give him a platform for his anger and to compensate for my daughter's abuse.

This happened:

GS and I were interacting, Daughter was playing/texting/whatever on her phone. GS said, "I didn't call (child of daughter's friend) a bitch." I said, "You didn't call her a bitch?" Daughter says, "GS, that's a bad word, if you say it again, you're on take 5." GS yells, "I'M NOT GOING TO TAKE FIVE! YOU'RE SO RUDE TO ME" Daughter sends him to take 5 then berates me, "See? He only does that when you're here. He knows better than to cuss in front of me." I'd like to say, "He's hearing you cuss like a sailor, it's no surprise to me he uses those words. I think until you stop cussing, why should he get in trouble for it?" Confrontational I know but I'm resentful and not feeling like using my listening/validating skills on her at the moment.

I've noticed that she's modeling non-cussing behavior now. 

Ahhh... .felt good to get all that out. GS is napping, we'll leave for preschool at noon and I'll get to practice my plan of what to do if she starts verbally abusing me on the way home. After I drop her at home, I want to do something for self-care. Maybe see a movie, maybe see if my best friend is around (fortunately she's self-employed and isn't busy right now) for a visit.

I have a therapy appt tomorrow. Thank goodness! Thank you all, again, for being an extra level of support for me. I appreciate you all more than you know but I know that you know.

~ OH

[wendydarling]

About to have dinner, quickly skimmed your message ….  

I've have a planner on the kitchen wall, budget, contributions, tasks, who does what. It works a fine treat! Do you think that may help?

Back soon  

WDx  

[Panda39]

There seems to be a lot of you listening to what your daughter wants and trying to do what she wants... .even when she doesn't know what she wants.  You're chasing a moving target, that only serves to confuse things... .I'd forget what the heck she says too... .she's triggered and is verbalizing her feelings in the moment and they all conflict. 

Maybe keep your focus more on your Grandson, what he needs, and what you need to be your best for him.  Are you able to get some breaks away from your daughter while your Grandson is at preschool? Maybe run errands, go for a walk, something where you can clear your head.  Your daughters talking sounds overwhelming.

Panda39

[wendydarling]

Thank you thank you thank you all. I'm so very grateful for the support I am getting from all of you. I don't know why it's so hard for me to see things as clearly as you all.

It's hard when in the eye of the storm as you are at this time, you are shining the light, finding your way, it's understandable it feels hard for you.

I agree with Panda take some time out for you, your DD may cool. The goal is to reduce conflict, her escalating.

[Only Human]

Maybe keep your focus more on your Grandson, what he needs, and what you need to be your best for him.  Are you able to get some breaks away from your daughter while your Grandson is at preschool? Maybe run errands, go for a walk, something where you can clear your head.  Your daughters talking sounds overwhelming.

Panda39

Good advice and is in line with what my T said, time to focus on helping the next generation.

It's hard when in the eye of the storm as you are at this time, you are shining the light, finding your way, it's understandable it feels hard for you.

I agree with Panda take some time out for you, your DD may cool. The goal is to reduce conflict, her escalating.

Yes, I'm at my best friend's house now and, after spending way too much time dissecting my recent interactions with my daughter, we made a decision to watch some Wentworth episodes. I'm on her patio now while she finishes some family stuff of her own.

 

I've have a planner on the kitchen wall, budget, contributions, tasks, who does what. It works a fine treat! Do you think that may help?

Was this meant for me? If yes, I am not sure what you mean.

[wendydarling]

I've have a planner on the kitchen wall, budget, contributions, tasks, who does what. It works a fine treat! Do you think that may help?

Was this meant for me? If yes, I am not sure what you mean.

It was OH, it was prompted by the overwhelming, conflicting conversation about who's taking GS to preschool, when. In the context of you both tracking your agreement of when your DD for example asks if you can take GS to preschool, mark it up - "OH morning school run", amend it if plans change, "DD please can you mark that up for me so I don't forget' - my personal experience is seeing it in writing can help focus a way of working together, though I appreciate when you say you tune her out because she talks incessantly, it's rarely a short interaction, it's exhausting... .hurl in some personal insults you're reeling.

Glad you're chilling, taking time out with your friend.

WDx