"She may go off the deep end if you don't do something"

[naturalturn]

I have been NC with my mother for a little less than 2 months. I have had a generally positive reaction to this and have felt myself be happier and start to heal. Though I desperately want a good relationship with my mother, my T thinks that may be impossible. Logically, I know she will rage and hate me when I speak to her next. I am terrified of my mother and have common nightmares of running in to her in public and confronting her.

Though I need to speak to her at some point, I still have no idea what I would say or what that would look like. I still don't know when I want to speak to her because I still have anger and bitterness towards her and don't want that negativity and harm back in my life. I am sad to think this wonderful time of not having her in my life will come to a close... .

Friday was my birthday and she sent me a card and gift card. I felt very guilty about this, but I know she is still the same and refuses to see that anything at all could possibly even a little bit be her fault or that she may have acted in an inappropriate or hurtful manner ever in my life. I cannot go back to her blaming me for everything and constantly feeling inadequate.

My mother called my father today apparently "distraught" and hysterical because of our NC situation. She eventually started yelling at my father too and getting angry at her and he had to hang up on her.

He called me and suggested maybe I send her a text message or a letter saying something nice. I'm not totally opposed to this, but I want to make sure I don't make a wrong move. I guess I also still feel bitter that she has never cared if I am upset. She has not care if she hurts my feelings, but I have always had to somehow take care of her or find a way to make her feel better when she's upset. I have apologized for so long and have never once received a sincere apology from her. Maybe I am just being immature though.

What do you all think? Should I reach out?

[zachira]

I hear your mixed feelings about not having contact with your mother and not knowing if and how to reestablish contact with her. You are liking being no contact because you don't have to deal with your mother's constant bad behaviors. You are wondering how you would reestablish contact with her if you did so. What would low contact look like ideally? What would be your boundaries? What would cause you to go no contact again? I am thinking there is probably very little you can say to her that she would be able to respond appropriately to, and you probably would have to walk away if she starts acting badly. Is there someone that your mother always acts normal in front of, and who would go with you to visit your mother? I have used this tactic in the past, knowing that my mother with BPD likes to maintain a positive public image, and only really acts terrible in front of her children, SIL, and grandchildren. Whatever you decide, you will be doing what feels right for you. There are many people who post on this Board who are in very different stages of limiting contact with their mother with BPD: Some are no contact; some low contact, and some go back and forth between low contact and no contact. I know others will post with their suggestions on how to handle the difficult situation with your mother. Keep us posted on how you are doing, and let us know how we can help.

[Donavan243]

I have been NC with my mother for a little less than 2 months. I have had a generally positive reaction to this and have felt myself be happier and start to heal. Though I desperately want a good relationship with my mother, my T thinks that may be impossible. Logically, I know she will rage and hate me when I speak to her next. I am terrified of my mother and have common nightmares of running in to her in public and confronting her.

Though I need to speak to her at some point, I still have no idea what I would say or what that would look like. I still don't know when I want to speak to her because I still have anger and bitterness towards her and don't want that negativity and harm back in my life. I am sad to think this wonderful time of not having her in my life will come to a close... .

Friday was my birthday and she sent me a card and gift card. I felt very guilty about this, but I know she is still the same and refuses to see that anything at all could possibly even a little bit be her fault or that she may have acted in an inappropriate or hurtful manner ever in my life. I cannot go back to her blaming me for everything and constantly feeling inadequate.

My mother called my father today apparently "distraught" and hysterical because of our NC situation. She eventually started yelling at my father too and getting angry at her and he had to hang up on her.

He called me and suggested maybe I send her a text message or a letter saying something nice. I'm not totally opposed to this, but I want to make sure I don't make a wrong move. I guess I also still feel bitter that she has never cared if I am upset. She has not care if she hurts my feelings, but I have always had to somehow take care of her or find a way to make her feel better when she's upset. I have apologized for so long and have never once received a sincere apology from her. Maybe I am just being immature though.

What do you all think? Should I reach out?

Hi, glad you are here and sharing your story! My mother has BPD and my dad is a major enabler and is consistently telling me to do things to just appease her because he doesn't want her to be upset. Even though we all know the nice thing you do will not be recognized or remembered. I think if you decide to reach out to her, do it because you care about having her in your life and are ready to, not because you feel obligated. I don't know all of the details of your relationship with your mother, but I can share what has helped me be able to stay in contact with mine.

I read an article once that said people with BPD, whether consciously or unconsciously,  want to make you feel anxiously helpless, guilty, and hostile. Once I realized that is the goal of most of our conversations, I also realized I had the power to not feel those things. I am only human and can only do my best, if that is not satisfactory to her then I am helpless, but I don't have to feel bad or anxious about it. It also said to talk as if talking about the weather. Even if she is screaming at me because I "did something purposely because I hate her", I respond in a mellow tone. And if I can't control my tone, then I don't respond. Sometimes this makes her more angry, sometimes it makes her be quiet, but after doing this for a few months it seems she does not verbally attack me as often, nor does she bring up conversation topics she knows I don't want to discuss. It took consistency, but for me it was freeing that I could just not participate in communication that was stressing me out. * I will put a disclaimer here that my mother is never physically abusive to me, I'm not sure if that makes a difference, but just in case.

I hope this can help!

[Learning2Thrive]

I have been NC with my mother for a little less than 2 months. I have had a generally positive reaction to this and have felt myself be happier and start to heal. Though I desperately want a good relationship with my mother, my T thinks that may be impossible. Logically, I know she will rage and hate me when I speak to her next. I am terrified of my mother and have common nightmares of running in to her in public and confronting her.

Has your T elaborated on why he/she thinks this? Has your T defined what type of relationship might be possible with your mother and what that might look like?

Though I need to speak to her at some point, I still have no idea what I would say or what that would look like. I still don't know when I want to speak to her because I still have anger and bitterness towards her and don't want that negativity and harm back in my life. I am sad to think this wonderful time of not having her in my life will come to a close...

Maybe you just need some more time. It’s okay if you do. YOU get to decide what you need.

Friday was my birthday and she sent me a card and gift card. I felt very guilty about this, but I know she is still the same and refuses to see that anything at all could possibly even a little bit be her fault or that she may have acted in an inappropriate or hurtful manner ever in my life. I cannot go back to her blaming me for everything and constantly feeling inadequate.

Please review: https://bpdfamily.com/content/emotional-blackmail-fear-obligation-and-guilt-fog

My mother called my father today apparently "distraught" and hysterical because of our NC situation. She eventually started yelling at my father too and getting angry at her and he had to hang up on her.

He called me and suggested maybe I send her a text message or a letter saying something nice.

drama triangle
Please review: https://bpdfamily.com/content/karpman-drama-triangle

Your mother perceives herself as victim and you as the persecutor. She calls your father to rescue her and makes him so uncomfortable that he hangs up on her. Then he calls you to suggest you... .

What do YOU WANT to do? Have you spoken with your T about this situation?

You have endured a lifetime of abuse. There’s nothing wrong with taking your time to determine what is best for yourself.

  L2T

[Notwendy]

These are the classic dynamics I grew up with. My father was an enabler and if my BPD mother was upset about something I did, she'd enlist him to get me to fix it. It worked well with me as I was more attached to him than I was to her.

At the advice of a counselor, I tried NC with my mother once. It didn't work very well to be NC with her and not my father. They were a package deal and I didn't want to be NC with him.

My own personal solution is a form of LC. I am still in contact with her. I don't share any personal information or information that I would feel sensitive about. She doesn't respect boundaries. She wouldn't keep things I say confidential and anything emotional she could be manipulative about. I keep conversations light and discuss things like a movie I saw. If she asks about the kids, it would be something like " their soccer team won". The boundary isn't not speaking to her- it is what I speak to her about.

[naturalturn]

What would low contact look like ideally? What would be your boundaries? What would cause you to go no contact again?

I think I'm going to write her a thank you card for the giftcard she sent me. I'm thinking I should include something short about our situation but not sure what to say. I could see us sending letter back and forth as a form of contact.

In the future, I think the maximum contact I could have with her is seeing her in person two times a month in a group setting with other family around. And maybe speak on the phone once a week.
It probably wouldn't take a lot for me to go NC again. If I see she breaks these boundaries and starts acting mean or blaming me for everything and/or yelling, that would be enough.

Is there someone that your mother always acts normal in front of, and who would go with you to visit your mother?

She has acted pretty normal in front of my fiance. If I brought him with me the first time we reconnected, it would be bad. She would just give me a very evil face and not talk to me. I think the first time we reconnect with be over email/text/call/letters and let that settle before we see each other in person.

[naturalturn]

I read an article once that said people with BPD, whether consciously or unconsciously,  want to make you feel anxiously helpless, guilty, and hostile. Once I realized that is the goal of most of our conversations, I also realized I had the power to not feel those things. I am only human and can only do my best, if that is not satisfactory to her then I am helpless, but I don't have to feel bad or anxious about it. It also said to talk as if talking about the weather. Even if she is screaming at me because I "did something purposely because I hate her", I respond in a mellow tone. And if I can't control my tone, then I don't respond. Sometimes this makes her more angry, sometimes it makes her be quiet, but after doing this for a few months it seems she does not verbally attack me as often, nor does she bring up conversation topics she knows I don't want to discuss. It took consistency, but for me it was freeing that I could just not participate in communication that was stressing me out. * I will put a disclaimer here that my mother is never physically abusive to me, I'm not sure if that makes a difference, but just in case.

This will take a lot of practice for me to maintain, but it sounds like a good strategy. I don't usually get loud when she yells at me because she never allowed me to get loud at her even if she was screaming at the top of her lungs at me. But I usually start getting emotional and crying so my voice sounds more sad and distraught than mellow. Thanks Donavan!

[naturalturn]

Has your T elaborated on why he/she thinks this? Has your T defined what type of relationship might be possible with your mother and what that might look like?

We haven't discussed what a relationship could look like in the future, but she does not think my mother is going to change how she acts and what she thinks. She has told me she doesn't think it is possible for my mother to be the loving, supportive, kind mother that I wish she was. My T has said that she thinks with my mother, it has to be an all or nothing kind of relationship as in full contact or no contact because the second my mother gets even a little bit of contact with me, she will continuously want more until she sucks the life out of me.

What do YOU WANT to do? Have you spoken with your T about this situation?

I definitely don't want to call or text her, at least not now. I have spoken to my T about this and she thinks I need to act in line with my values. So, by that, it's probably a good idea to write a thank you card because I do feel it's important to thank people when they do something nice. However, I'm not sure what to write other than "Thank you for the giftcard." My T told me to write out a few different options for a thank you card then decide later, but this isn't very helpful for me. I'm not sure what else to say, but I do feel I need to say something more than "Thanks."

Thank you L2T for caring and being so supportive. I really really appreciate you.

[naturalturn]

I don't share any personal information or information that I would feel sensitive about. She doesn't respect boundaries. She wouldn't keep things I say confidential and anything emotional she could be manipulative about. I keep conversations light and discuss things like a movie I saw. If she asks about the kids, it would be something like " their soccer team won". The boundary isn't not speaking to her- it is what I speak to her about.

This is the kind of information I have shared with my mother for the last 2 years. I guess that's why it hasn't been too difficult to not have her to talk to because I almost never talked to her about sensitive or personal things with her very often anyway. However, withholding this information is what gradually pissed her off. She constantly would get mad at me saying "You just don't want to talk to me!" Even though I was perfectly fine talking about a variety of things, she just wanted to hear me tell her about very personal things between me and my fiance which I don't feel comfortable with.

Additionally, I hate to say this, but she's so superficial, she can't hold a conversation that isn't gossip, complaining, or obsessing over appearances. I tried so hard when we were in contact to talk about things like the weather, current events, politics, religion... etc. But she can't hold a conversation!

She has no opinion on anything that's significant and can't form coherent thoughts so she'll find a way to stare at herself either in a reflection or on her camera phone while I'm talking then eventually just tell me "I don't want to talk about that." Then she'll change the subject to again something I don't want to talk about like how "ugly" my friend is or, her favorite, how I never spend time with her or "Everybody stares at me when I go out, why does everybody stare at me all the time?". This is one of the biggest issues in spending time with her. Really, I would never want to be her friend! The few friends I have are nothing like that.

[zachira]

I am thinking that maybe the fact your mother cannot hold a conversation with you is another way of making you invisible. My mother with BPD sounds a lot like yours. She is able to talk with other people who are not her children about all kinds of things. I do not disclose any personal information to my mother because she just seems to use it to hurt me. It seems that the goal is to make me feel as bad about myself as she feels about herself. Mom has asked me why I don't want to talk to her, and there is no reasonable explanation that I could give that would not send her into a melt down. I limit my contact, and will always long for a warm caring relationship with my mother which is never going to happen. I feel your frustration and sadness. I admire how you are doing every thing humanly possible to have the best relationship with your mother that you can, and your efforts to accept that she will never change and you are the one who has to do all the work to make sure things do not get out of hand.
Because of the kind of person you are, you have friends that are nothing like your mother. I too have wonderful friends. I think that we have to be especially proud of choosing a higher path than our mothers with BPD.

[Harri]

Hi naturalturn. 

Can you see how these limitations in her ability to have a conversation with you are all about her and not necessarily directed towards you? 

If/when you do have contact with her again, why not take the opportunity to change the way you interact with her.  You said "I cannot go back to her blaming me for everything and constantly feeling inadequate."  Well, chances are she will blame you again.  That is what she does.  You do not have to have a reaction to this though.  You can say No, I do not agree.  No, I see things differently.  No, I did not do/say that.  Whatever it is, you do not have to take on her projections, emotions, fear, biases, etc.

We talk about FOG a lot here (fear obligation and guilt).  Yes, some people will try to use these methods to control us but they only work if we buy into them.  I don't know if you read the article that was linked here, but if you haven't read it, when you do, pay particular attention to where it says FOG only works with our participation.  The part of the FOG that we can take charge of is saying No, whether out loud to our pwBPD/whoever, or in our own heads.  It is part of separating us from them.  It is about letting them have their opinions, ideas, beliefs, fears etc, without us taking them on and internalizing them.  So to see FOG as something they use to control us is not very effective in helping us take charge of our own well being.  We do not have to respond and sometimes guilt is just guilt and fear is just fear... .same with the feeling of obligation.   Feelings just are.  They do not define us and more importantly for many of us here, we do not need to act on them.

If you want to write a thank you note to your mom because it falls in line with your values to do so, write the thank you note.   Something like "thank you for the gift card I really appreciate it.  I used it to purchase a new cushion for my deck chair"  (Okay, so I am not exactly good t this sort of thing... .but you get the idea.)  'Thank you for the gift card.  I bought ____ with it and I look forward to using it on Sundays when I am relaxing on my deck... ."  Keep it simple, honest, kind.  Stay away from personal things and if she gets upset that you 'don't talk to her' she gets upset.  You do not have to get upset because you are taking care of you and setting boundaries on your own behaviors that are still in line with your values.  Make sense?

[Notwendy]

My mother likes to hear " the dirt"- other people's personal stuff. I think this comes from a lack of boundaries and a poor sense of self. She especially likes to hear very personal stuff and then has some "secret" to share. She also triangulates- she's even taken my husband aside to share/get "secrets" about me and tells him " don't tell NW, this is just between us". He doesn't go for it.

There is a difference between a boundary on what kind of information to share and "hiding something from someone" and she assumes the latter. I wouldn't have a conversation with my neighbor about personal details about my marriage. This doesn't mean I am "hiding something" - it means there is a boundary on what is appropriate to share.

One reason I don't share some personal information with my mother is that, it's personal. I can't help it if she assumes I am hiding something from her on purpose. Another reason is that she isn't trustworthy with person information- she is likely to break a confidence and talk about me with other people. Since I can't control that, I have to have a boundary with what I say to her. If she doesn't hear personal information about me, she fills in the blanks with her own ideas. I can't control that.

Yes, your mother may complain, but that doesn't mean you need to comply with her (lack of) boundaries. I can say something like " My H and I don't wish to discuss personal aspects of our marriage with others". My mother has also tried to have the secret discussions with me about a sibling or other family members. I simply reply " I don't wish to discuss this person behind his back". She also asks invasive questions about my kids and my reply is the same" if my kids tell me something in confidence, I have to respect their feelings about that" . After a while, she has learned the boundary.

[Learning2Thrive]

Hi naturalturn 

I’ve had this thought a couple times but got distracted and forgot to ask.

Your subject line on this thread:

"She may go off the deep end if you don't do something"

Did your father say this to you when he called you after your mother called him and upset him so much he hung up on her?

Just curious.

How are you doing and feeling today?

  L2T

[naturalturn]

Hi naturalturn. 

Can you see how these limitations in her ability to have a conversation with you are all about her and not necessarily directed towards you? 

Hi Harri 

Yes, I can see how these are about her, but due to her limitations, she forcefully tries to insert herself into personal parts of my life and only discusses things/topics that are very upsetting to me and very hateful/negative. On the flip side, if I ever make even the slightest complaint about something she'll tell me "Stop being so negative all the time! It's not that big of a deal, just get over it." This, I'm sure you understand, is very frustrating.

You can say No, I do not agree.  No, I see things differently.  No, I did not do/say that.  Whatever it is, you do not have to take on her projections, emotions, fear, biases, etc.

I have tried to more openly disagree with her when I feel that way. However, this has caused a LOT of rage from her. Not only do I have to affirm everything she says, I have to very dramatically and over and over again tell her "YES! You are so right! I agree so much with you!" Since she rages if I stay quiet and rages if I even politely disagree or try to politely engage in debate, this makes me never want to speak with her. I usually don't get too upset when she rages when I disagree or stay quiet because it is truly irrational, but it makes me not want to have contact with her especially when it's one-on-one. In her mind, she knows everything and is right all the time and as a daughter, I have to 100% agree all the time with her or I am being disrespectful and foolish.

We talk about FOG a lot here (fear obligation and guilt).  Yes, some people will try to use these methods to control us but they only work if we buy into them.  I don't know if you read the article that was linked here, but if you haven't read it, when you do, pay particular attention to where it says FOG only works with our participation.  The part of the FOG that we can take charge of is saying No, whether out loud to our pwBPD/whoever, or in our own heads.  It is part of separating us from them.  It is about letting them have their opinions, ideas, beliefs, fears etc, without us taking them on and internalizing them.  So to see FOG as something they use to control us is not very effective in helping us take charge of our own well being.  We do not have to respond and sometimes guilt is just guilt and fear is just fear... .same with the feeling of obligation.   Feelings just are.  They do not define us and more importantly for many of us here, we do not need to act on them.

Yes, you are so right. Thank you for the reminder. I feel I am getting better (very slowly) at not participating and I hope I can feel more confident in this before I have a relationship with her again because I see how it is so important.

If you want to write a thank you note to your mom because it falls in line with your values to do so, write the thank you note.   Something like "thank you for the gift card I really appreciate it.  I used it to purchase a new cushion for my deck chair"  (Okay, so I am not exactly good t this sort of thing... .but you get the idea.)  'Thank you for the gift card.  I bought ____ with it and I look forward to using it on Sundays when I am relaxing on my deck... ."  Keep it simple, honest, kind.  Stay away from personal things and if she gets upset that you 'don't talk to her' she gets upset.  You do not have to get upset because you are taking care of you and setting boundaries on your own behaviors that are still in line with your values.  Make sense?

Yes, that does make sense. Thank you! I was thinking to write something like "Thank you for the gift card and birthday card. I really do appreciate it. School and work are going well. I hope work is going well for you. I need some time right now, but it won't be forever. I love you and care about you and think about you often."  But I think you are right in keeping it more simple so I may change it to make it a little less emotional. I keep trying to reframe from writing somewhere in there "I'm sorry."

[naturalturn]

There is a difference between a boundary on what kind of information to share and "hiding something from someone" and she assumes the latter. I wouldn't have a conversation with my neighbor about personal details about my marriage. This doesn't mean I am "hiding something" - it means there is a boundary on what is appropriate to share.

Yes, that is such a good way to put it! I guess since there has been a lot of emotional incest growing up and she talks bad about my father all the time and has told me wayyy too many personal things about their relationship, she expects me to do the same. However, I never asked for the information she has shared with me and frankly, I was uncomfortable in those conversations. I would openly tell her that I didn't think that was something she should be discussing with me and of course, she freaked out. I have seen how she has spoken about my father and that's something I disagree with. Obviously, if there is something seriously problematic in a relationship, I understand wanting to share that information to get help, but I feel it is important to maintain a higher level of respect which she does not understand.

[naturalturn]

Hi naturalturn 

I’ve had this thought a couple times but got distracted and forgot to ask.

Your subject line on this thread:

Did your father say this to you when he called you after your mother called him and upset him so much he hung up on her?

Just curious.

How are you doing and feeling today?

  L2T

Hi L2T 

Yes, that is exactly what he said when he called me a few hours after he spoke with my hysterical mother. He seemed the most upset I have almost ever heard him. He told me "I thought you not talking to her was going to work, but nothing is getting better." "I really don't want you to move, but I think that's the only way to resolve this issue. You're like a drug to her, she is so obsessed." This was odd to hear him say these things because in the past when I have been worried about upsetting my mother he has always told me "Don't worry about her." "Don't feel guilty, she is not being a good mother to you." "Who cares if she's upset. How many times has she upset you and me?" "You need to play hardball with her. If you give in and call or text her, it's not going to help."

I'm feeling okay. I have calmed down a bit and am feeling less guilty. I told my mom's friend who wants to meet for lunch with me to please not mention to my mother or grandmother that we are going to lunch and she said she wouldn't which I am happy about. She didn't ask for a reason, but she probably will at lunch which I'm not sure what I'll say. I'm thinking I need to send the thank you card soon so I am a little confused about what I'm going to write and it's causing a little bit of anxiety. I'm worried to say the wrong thing or open a can of worms.

[zachira]

You are worried about saying the wrong thing and opening a can of worms. Part of the misery of dealing with a person with BPD is any thing can trigger them whether it is actions or words or both. The challenge is to stay present in the moment when the person with BPD acts badly and to observe what is going on with both of you, and to realize it has nothing to do with the kind of person you are and anything you did. It is so easy to say this yet in the moment I can get extremely upset when I am treated badly by my family members with BPD, and it is when I calm down and realize a normal person would not respond this way, that helps to relieve some of my discomfort. As long as you are dealing with your mother with BPD, this will likely always be a challenge, yet with time and practice you will get better at not absorbing the bad vibes your mother sends you way because she is unable to deal with her feelings which have nothing to do with you or says any thing about who you are.

[Notwendy]

That sounds like the drama triangle I also grew up with. If BPD mom was upset over something I did, she'd pester my father to get me to comply. Eventually, he'd ask me to do so to calm her down. Or he'd join her and get angry at me.

My mother also told me TMI about her relationship with my father. I don't know what happened to the barf icon that used to be here, but it is appropriate in this case. In return, she'd expect me to tell her everything I ever did with a boy when I was dating. I wasn't doing anything wild, but didn't think I had to report on everything. Still to comply, I told her.

When she started the invasive questions with my teen kids, I had to have boundaries. I told them not to talk to their grandma about anyone they were interested in. Knowing that these things tend to not be serious relationships, I didn't think there was anything to report. If later on, they had someone serious, which would likely lead to engagement, then it was appropriate to let extended family know. But every teen crush? No. I had the same boundaries with them. I needed to know safety details about dating- parental supervision at parties, curfews, etc,  but not everything. That is their personal business.

Of course mom would ask them- all kinds of details. If they didn't tell her she assumed we were hiding information from her, but it was really more about letting them have their own boundaries over their feelings, and their bodies.

[Learning2Thrive]

Hi L2T  

Yes, that is exactly what he said when he called me a few hours after he spoke with my hysterical mother. He seemed the most upset I have almost ever heard him.

Oh, I was afraid of that, because he is implying YOU are responsible for your mother’s choices and possible behavior.

Please know that you are NOT responsible for your adult mother’s legal right to choose her own behavior and it was wrong for your father to lay that on you because he can’t handle her acting out on him.

I’m guessing this dynamic happened a lot though your early childhood?

He told me "I thought you not talking to her was going to work, but nothing is getting better." "I really don't want you to move, but I think that's the only way to resolve this issue. You're like a drug to her, she is so obsessed." This was odd to hear him say these things because in the past when I have been worried about upsetting my mother he has always told me "Don't worry about her." "Don't feel guilty, she is not being a good mother to you." "Who cares if she's upset. How many times has she upset you and me?" "You need to play hardball with her. If you give in and call or text her, it's not going to help."

Woah. I do strongly encourage you to make sure your therapist is aware of this. Also, please make sure you always have a safety plan in the event she shows us unexpectedly and is out of control. I’m not suggesting you should feel afraid or worried. On the contrary, having a solid safety plan will help ease worry and keep you safe.

I'm feeling okay. I have calmed down a bit and am feeling less guilty. I told my mom's friend who wants to meet for lunch with me to please not mention to my mother or grandmother that we are going to lunch and she said she wouldn't which I am happy about. She didn't ask for a reason, but she probably will at lunch which I'm not sure what I'll say.

You don’t have to give any details and it may be best if you don’t. You can say something along the lines of you appreciate her care and concern but it’s a family matter and you aren’t in a position to discuss the specifics.

I'm thinking I need to send the thank you card soon so I am a little confused about what I'm going to write and it's causing a little bit of anxiety. I'm worried to say the wrong thing or open a can of worms.

I suspect she will use anything you say as a reason to react.

You are not responsible for her choices or her behavior. Why not just say, “Thank you for the birthyday gift. I appreciate your thoughtfulness.”

What do you think would happen if you only said that?

  L2T

[naturalturn]

You are worried about saying the wrong thing and opening a can of worms. Part of the misery of dealing with a person with BPD is any thing can trigger them whether it is actions or words or both. The challenge is to stay present in the moment when the person with BPD acts badly and to observe what is going on with both of you, and to realize it has nothing to do with the kind of person you are and anything you did. It is so easy to say this yet in the moment I can get extremely upset when I am treated badly by my family members with BPD, and it is when I calm down and realize a normal person would not respond this way, that helps to relieve some of my discomfort. As long as you are dealing with your mother with BPD, this will likely always be a challenge, yet with time and practice you will get better at not absorbing the bad vibes your mother sends you way because she is unable to deal with her feelings which have nothing to do with you or says any thing about who you are.

Thank you so much Zachira for your understanding and advice. Your words really resonate with me. It is such a challenge to stay present and remember who I am.

[naturalturn]

Oh, I was afraid of that, because he is implying YOU are responsible for your mother’s choices and possible behavior.

Please know that you are NOT responsible for your adult mother’s legal right to choose her own behavior and it was wrong for your father to lay that on you because he can’t handle her acting out on him.

I’m guessing this dynamic happened a lot though your early childhood?

Thank you, you are right, it wasn't fair. I realize that now. This happened some as a child, I usually just felt obligated (without anybody telling me) that I needed to make my mother feel better. My mother was the one who always would come to me when she was upset and expect me to make things better. My dad usually stayed out of it, until now.

Woah. I do strongly encourage you to make sure your therapist is aware of this. Also, please make sure you always have a safety plan in the event she shows us unexpectedly and is out of control. I’m not suggesting you should feel afraid or worried. On the contrary, having a solid safety plan will help ease worry and keep you safe.

Yes, I have made sure to tell my therapist about this. I'm working on the escape plan, but it's not very solid yet... .

You don’t have to give any details and it may be best if you don’t. You can say something along the lines of you appreciate her care and concern but it’s a family matter and you aren’t in a position to discuss the specifics.

This family friend called me on the phone the other day since she had to put her dog down suddenly. She ended up bringing up my mother and said how my mother has been hurting her feelings. She said she wouldn't tell my mother about our lunch and said she feels she is in a different time in her life compared to my mother and that I am probably feeling the same way. She added that she feels bad that my mother hurt her feelings and that she is probably just being sensitive. All I told her was that she shouldn't feel bad, she's not being too sensitive, and that she is allowed to feel the way she feels. She appreciated what I said and didn't ask for details about me and my mother so I am glad.

You are not responsible for her choices or her behavior. Why not just say, “Thank you for the birthday gift. I appreciate your thoughtfulness.”

I like that! I just feel like I should say something more? It seems short... .maybe I should say something like "Thank you for the birthday gift and card. I appreciate your thoughtfulness. The giftcard will be great to use towards gas. I hope work is going well. Love, naturalturn"

Or is that too much?

Thanks L2T for all of your help