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jasmine123

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« on: October 07, 2018, 09:55:16 AM »

Hi,
This is my first post. I am currently reading the second edition of "Stop Walking on Egg Shells" and it recommended to seek support from a support group (and people who wont get caught in the middle of you and they person in your life with BPD). So, I am trying out this message board.
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« Reply #1 on: October 07, 2018, 10:45:33 AM »

Hi and welcome to the board!  I am glad you decided to check us out as we can indeed offer support as you work things through.

Can you tell us more about the pwBPD (person with BPD) in your life?  What sort of relationship do you want with them?  What do you have the most difficulty with?

Settle in, read, post.  We get it here.
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Panda39
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Relationship status: SO and I have been together 9 years and have just moved in together this summer.
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« Reply #2 on: October 07, 2018, 10:51:00 AM »

Hi jasmine,

Welcome to the group  Welcome new member (click to insert in post)

I hope when you have the chance that you will share your story.  The members here are great at listening, supporting, providing tools and sharing things that have worked for them.

I wanted to point out the box to the right ---> each item is a link to more information just click on anything that resonates with you. 

What are you struggling with most with the BPD person in your life?

Panda39
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JNChell
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« Reply #3 on: October 07, 2018, 11:01:22 AM »

Hello, Jasmine123. Welcome new member (click to insert in post) You’ve found a good place here. Along with Panda39 & Harri, welcome. I’m sorry that you had to find your way to us, but rest assured that you have found the best resource that you could have. You’ve struck gold!

What is it that brings you here? If you’re comfortable in doing so, share your experiences. We are a peer based group. Most of the members here have most likely been through similar situations that you’ve endured. Looking forward to interacting with you, Jasmine123.
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« Reply #4 on: October 07, 2018, 06:38:52 PM »

 Welcome new member (click to insert in post) Jasmine123,

Welcome to our family. What would you like to focus on first? We’re here to listen and support you.

Sending you positive energy and good thoughts,

L2T
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jasmine123

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« Reply #5 on: October 08, 2018, 09:46:19 AM »

Wow! Thanks for welcoming me. I am already encouraged to hear responses from you all!

I think that my mom may have BPD, or at least she is on the threshold for it. I thought her behavior was normal until high school and then I started noticing the differences between her and my friends parents. Long story short, I recently heard about BPD and thought "Wow! That describes my mom!" It would make sense too because she experienced a lot of trama in her childhood and then again in her adulthood.

I think that I am currently in the bargaining and withdrawal phases, described in "Stop Walking on Egg Shells" (and of course I definitely also walk on egg shells around her)! I just never want to be around my mom, but of course she always wants to visit, call, and text me! Whenever I think about talking or seeing her it gives me mental and physical anxiety, and of course that only increases once I am around her! Breaking off a relationship with her is not an option for me. I really want to have a good relationship with her (as I am sure we all do with the BPD person in our lives). Not wanting to be around her, but also wanting a good relationship makes me feel so stuck! 

There are so many puzzling experiences to process through... .I can't decide: Do I share memories from the past? Or do I focus on things going on currently? Maybe I can do a little bit of both overtime on bpdfamily now that I have found it.

One thing that is currently on my mind is the anxiety I feel over visiting her soon. I am going to go home to visit my mother-in-law (who I am very close with and enjoy being around). Then I am going to go visit my mom. I am anxious about:

1. Do I tell my mom I am seeing my mother-in-law first? She is soo jealous ANYTIME I see my in laws. Once she even said "I am afraid they are stealing you away from me!" She normally finds ways to slip in insults about them after she finds out I will be seeing them or that I did see them. Then I am always torn between taking the insults (in attempts to keep her from getting more and more angry) or to defend my in laws. (I have asked her to stop comparing to my in laws and not talk about them to me, but of course she hasn't honored that request.) I am leaning towards not telling her right now... .What are your thoughts?

2. The actual visit... .it will be just me and her. Sometimes we have fun! Other times she spends a large amount of money taking me to shop, eat, go to spas etc., which I view as compulsive spending and it makes me uncomfortable. Other times she vents all her thoughts and feelings about current and past events. She is like a broken record... .she tells me the same story multiple times! While I normally can listen to friends and other family members tell me about their problems and have no anxiety about it, anytime my mom shares her thoughts, feelings, and struggles with me, it makes me tense up and mentally shut down/check out. I don't know why... .

3. What are good activities to do with my mom that will not trigger her BPD? Or is this the wrong perspective? I am reading right now in the "Stop Walking on Egg Shells book" that I can't control her responses... .so should I even attempt to answer this third question?

Thanks again for welcoming me!
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Panda39
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Relationship status: SO and I have been together 9 years and have just moved in together this summer.
Posts: 3462



« Reply #6 on: October 09, 2018, 07:46:11 AM »

Hi jasmine,

Welcome back!  You've listed a lot of classic BPD behaviors in your post, and they are in your situation as with anyone with a BPD person in their life very demanding and stressful.  I also can see in your post lots of opportunities to learn and practice some new skills that can help.

First of all your mom is going to do what she is going to do.  You can not make her do something that she doesn't want to do.  One of the first things I learned when I arrived here is that the only people in this world that we have total control over is ourselves.

What you can learn here is how you can change your own behaviors, and reactions regarding your mom thus changing the relationship.  By changing your usual role, what you usually do, you can change the dynamic between you and your mom.

I'd like to share information on Radical Acceptance (below is a link to more), this is about accepting your mom as she is... .

Radical Acceptance

Radical acceptance was developed by Marsha Linehan, PhD.  from the University of Washington (see article) and is based on the ancient Zen philosophy that each moment is complete by itself, and that the world is perfect as it is. Zen focuses on acceptance, validation, and tolerance instead of change.

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=89910.0

I just never want to be around my mom, but of course she always wants to visit, call, and text me! Whenever I think about talking or seeing her it gives me mental and physical anxiety, and of course that only increases once I am around her! Breaking off a relationship with her is not an option for me. I really want to have a good relationship with her (as I am sure we all do with the BPD person in our lives). Not wanting to be around her, but also wanting a good relationship makes me feel so stuck!

I think the middle ground here is to set boundaries, boundaries that make the relationship more comfortable for you.  Boundaries are about our values and protecting ourselves.  Boundaries are not about punishing your mom.

Creating boundaries may be difficult for you, many children of a BPD parent are raised to have weak boundaries when it comes to the BPD parent.  Creating boundaries in terms of your mom, will like anything new take time and practice.  Don't worry if you don't get it perfectly right off the bat as people with BPD (pwBPD) are really good boundary busters.

When she calls or texts are you instantly responding?  Even if it is an interruption in something you are doing... .work, dinner, at the movies with friends, asleep?

More on boundaries (boundaries and boundary setting is a big topic and could be a post all it's own)... .

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=61684.0
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=167368.0


One thing that is currently on my mind is the anxiety I feel over visiting her soon. I am going to go home to visit my mother-in-law (who I am very close with and enjoy being around). Then I am going to go visit my mom. I am anxious about:

1. Do I tell my mom I am seeing my mother-in-law first? She is soo jealous ANYTIME I see my in laws. Once she even said "I am afraid they are stealing you away from me!" She normally finds ways to slip in insults about them after she finds out I will be seeing them or that I did see them. Then I am always torn between taking the insults (in attempts to keep her from getting more and more angry) or to defend my in laws. (I have asked her to stop comparing to my in laws and not talk about them to me, but of course she hasn't honored that request.) I am leaning towards not telling her right now... .What are your thoughts?

Why is it necessary to tell your mom you saw your MIL first?  Why is it necessary to report to your mom who you see at all?  It is okay to keep somethings private... .this isn't lying to her this is choosing what you will and won't talk about... .again creating a boundary.

What if the next time your mom brings up your MIL you just tell her, "Hey, I'm here to see you not to talk about the MIL, how have you been?"  Will she try to talk about her again? Most likely.  So, when she brings it up again... . Mom, I don't want to talk about my MIL... .change the subject move on.  Keep enforcing your boundary that you don't want to talk about your MIL.  A reminder here that no, means no, and you do not need to explain to her why you aren't talking about you MIL.  Don't JADE (Justify, Argue, Defend, Explain).  When we JADE it eventually leads to an argument.  If you don't JADE you give your mom nothing to argue about.  


More on JADE Justify, Argue, Defend, Explaing... .
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=139972.0


2. The actual visit... .it will be just me and her. Sometimes we have fun! Other times she spends a large amount of money taking me to shop, eat, go to spas etc., which I view as compulsive spending and it makes me uncomfortable. Other times she vents all her thoughts and feelings about current and past events. She is like a broken record... .she tells me the same story multiple times! While I normally can listen to friends and other family members tell me about their problems and have no anxiety about it, anytime my mom shares her thoughts, feelings, and struggles with me, it makes me tense up and mentally shut down/check out. I don't know why... .

How close do you live to your mom?  Is this just a day visit? Do you go stay with her a few days?  If its a trip where you stay in her town do you stay in her house or a hotel?

I think that working on a plan before you visit your mom might be a good idea.  The over-spending, have you tried making some less expensive suggestions?  Have you tried taking her out to lunch (instead of her paying)?  What if you bought a movie gift card before you go for the visit and take her to a movie (you've saved her money, you've spent time with her, it keeps the conversation to a minimum) you can make a mother daughter visit to the movies your mother/daughter tradition... .something special you do together!  

The venting.  People with BPD feel everything and have poor executive control so she will compulsively over share her feelings.  You might try validating her feelings.  This isn't about validating bad behavior (we don't want to validate the invalid) but it is about validating the feeling behind her behavior.
  
You might also try and come up with some ways to get a break if she starts this behavior... .a trip to the ladies room, oops you left your phone in the car and need to run out and get it, your tired of carrying your shopping bags and want to drop them off at the car, whatever you can think of that gives you a chance to take a quick break.  When you return you also have an opportunity to change the subject.

More information on Validation... .
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=81442.0
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=124001.0

Communication Tool SET (Support, Empathy, Truth)
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=143695.0

I've given you a lot of information (the Panda loves to share the sites tools!  :love-it each item/tool I've provided above can be it's own conversation. Please don't be overwhelmed by all the information,  I just want to share with you some ways that you can change your interactions with your mom, and that there is hope in terms of improving the time you share with her.  

What do you think would be the most difficult skill/tool for you to try?  Maybe we can just focus on one thing at a time.  

Take Care,
Panda39

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jasmine123

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« Reply #7 on: October 13, 2018, 12:24:31 PM »

Wow Panda39, thank you SO much for your response. I spent a lot of time reading and thinking over these strategies.

I am going to learn more about radical acceptance. In reading “Stop Walking on Egg Shells” and this message board, I am starting to realize this is a big thing I need to work on. I have been trying to control my mom’s reactions and change her for a long time… Already the idea that I can’t change her is helping me cope better, and I think further learning and practicing radical acceptance sounds helpful.

I found the boundary exercise of Value, Boundary, Action VERY VERY helpful, so thank you so much for sharing that with me. One I need help with is:

Value: Spending time with family and friends
Boundary: I can’t spend all my time with just one person. Also, some people (like my husband or kids) will get a bigger chunk of my time then other people (like my mom with BPD)
Action: educating my mom of this value: “I need to make time for other people too. It’s important I see all our family members and maintain relationships with other people too.” Or, “I can’t see you right now because my kids or husband need me and its important to me that I spend this time with them to maintain healthy relationships with them and care for them.”
Alternative action: “I can’t see you now/then because I need to spend time with ____.” (Although I can see this one causing her to become very angry.)

One problem is that I have been sending mixed messages when it comes to this boundary… I make it a priority to see all the other people in my life, but not my mom, since her BPD tendency and my (poor) coping tools have made it difficult to be around her. I also tend to cave in if she pesters me enough about seeing her. What I can’t decide is, how often should I see my mom?” (We live in different cities but in the same state, about 4 hours from each other.) What would be a healthy boundary? What if this boundary is different from how often we see my husbands parents?

Excerpt
hy is it necessary to tell your mom you saw your MIL first?  Why is it necessary to report to your mom who you see at all?  It is okay to keep somethings private... .this isn't lying to her this is choosing what you will and won't talk about... .again creating a boundary.

What if the next time your mom brings up your MIL you just tell her, "Hey, I'm here to see you not to talk about the MIL, how have you been?"  Will she try to talk about her again? Most likely.  So, when she brings it up again... .  Mom, I don't want to talk about my MIL... .change the subject move on.  Keep enforcing your boundary that you don't want to talk about your MIL.  A reminder here that no, means no, and you do not need to explain to her why you aren't talking about you MIL.  Don't JADE (Justify, Argue, Defend, Explain).  When we JADE it eventually leads to an argument.  If you don't JADE you give your mom nothing to argue about. 

This was very helpful advice! I had never heard of JADE. I ALWAYS do that, and you are so right. It just makes the conflict worse. I am going to try and NOT do that anymore, especially when I am trying to maintain a healthy boundary.

In terms of visits, like I mentioned she lives about 4 hours away. When I visit I normally stay 24-48 hours and stay at her place. (My dad passed away when I was in high school, and she recently got remarried. So sometimes its just me and her and sometimes her new husband is also there. Complicated, right?) Sometimes my husband can come with me, but most of the time he can’t. For this specific visit its just me and her for 2 nights and about 1 and ½ days.

I like your ideas of movies. One time I thought of that idea myself though and she said “Well, I want to be able to talk and hang out. We can’t talk in a movie.” (She definitely has the insightfulness people talk about pwBPD having!) But, I think I will try again. I think making it a “special mother-daughter” thing could be a good way to frame it. I am going to also make a sort of “bucket list” of things to do with her that involve less talking or at least contrasted conversation (like going to a museum and talking about what we see) and ways to take breaks. I think having a plan (and back up plans!) will help me.

Thanks a million again. This has given me some hope. I think that I will be able to implement these. I am pretty reflective and like to journal, so even if I don't get it all down in the upcoming visit (which I am sure I wont! I know it takes time to change!), my goal will be to reflect over our visit and see where I could have applied these strategies so the next visit goes better.

I think the hardest thing for me during the visit will be being mindful and tolerating uncomfortable emotions I feel. I get stuck in my head predicting what my mom may do next. Ruminating or predicting the future causes me a lot of physical anxiety (stomach ache, tight chest, clenched jaw, etc.) and causes a big drop in my mood. It's hard for me to shake the negative feelings off. If I am not responding in this way, I am numbing myself out to the uncomfortable situation or a potential threat. (In the past I used to do this with food, but now I do it more by just mentally withdrawing. For example, I will respond with one word responses to her while I day dream about something else, get on my phone, busy myself by cleaning up her house, get lost in a sea of judgement in my head about her, etc.) All of this I know is not healthy! I guess I am just in a habit of responding this way and walking on egg shells. I guess it will just take me awhile to learn healthier coping strategies.

Thanks again!
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Panda39
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What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner’s ex
Relationship status: SO and I have been together 9 years and have just moved in together this summer.
Posts: 3462



« Reply #8 on: October 17, 2018, 07:47:20 AM »

Hi jasmine,

I'm glad I could help, I love sharing the information on the site because it has helped me so much too.  That's what the website is all about... .paying it forward

Excerpt
Value: Spending time with family and friends
Like the value! Yes, you should be able to have room for all the people in your life.

Excerpt
Boundary: I can’t spend all my time with just one person. Also, some people (like my husband or kids) will get a bigger chunk of my time then other people (like my mom with BPD)
Boundary: I won't spend all of my time with just one person

Excerpt
Action: educating my mom of this value: “I need to make time for other people too. It’s important I see all our family members and maintain relationships with other people too.” Or, “I can’t see you right now because my kids or husband need me and its important to me that I spend this time with them to maintain healthy relationships with them and care for them."
Do you see the JADE (Justify, Argue, Defend, Explain) here?

Excerpt
Alternative action: “I can’t see you now/then because I need to spend time with ____.” (Although I can see this one causing her to become very angry.)
As soon as you say "because" you JADE again.

In terms of your Action I'm going to suggest you don't say anything, you just do.  Just start spending time with who you want when you want. 

You might also try share less information with your mom, keep some things private, the more information you are sharing the more she is using it against you.  The more you tell her about who and how often you see other people she is using that to Guilt you into seeing her (FOG).  Or at the very least try to be mindful of the FOG and recognize it for what it is... .emotional blackmail.  It makes it easier to resist it when you see it for what it is.

In terms of how often you see your mom, that should be based on what you are comfortable with.  Because someone with BPD has the fear of abandonment issue and poor executive control of their emotions, your mom will likely complain that she doesn't see you enough even it you lived with her 24/7.  What I'm saying is that she will likely never stop complaining that you don't see her enough no matter what you do, so do what you want to do. 

I know it's super hard when you are on the receiving end of these never ending demands, needs of your mom... .there is a lot of pressure there.  But her emotions are hers and hers to manage, it isn't your job to "make your mom happy" happiness comes from within ourselves.  This is where radical acceptance comes in... .your mom is going to do what she is going to do, your mom is going to feel what she is going to feel, your mom is going to believe what she believes etc.  No matter what you do or don't do.  So it is about getting comfortable with being uncomfortable when she is uncomfortable.

Mindfulness can help with this.  For myself I describe mindfulness as being in the interaction and outside of it like an observer.  It's kind of like sitting on a park bench people watching... .you're watching as an outsider two people having a conversation.  When you're on the bench and not so emotionally invested it's easy to see the problem or the behavior and think clearly about what you can do or how you react.

I went and visited my mom once for Christmas and I started to feel pressured (the usual role I find myself in with my mom) so I put that emotion aside and observed her.  She was being passive/aggressive, she wanted me to do something but she would not ask me to do it... .thus the pressure I was feeling.  The pressure was uncomfortable for me but being able to observe her helped me have a less emotional knee jerk response. I decided to wait until she actually asked me to do what she wanted me to do. So it was clear for me what she wanted and it hopefully helped her to understand that if she wants something she has to ask and not expect me to be a mind reader.

More on Mindfulness... .
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=64749.0

A couple of other thoughts on your visits I think you could probably do a few additional things to make them more tolerable, you could make them on the shorter side rather than the longer side or do those longer visits less frequently, if it isn't cost prohibitive you could also stay in a hotel rather than your mom's house (that way you get a break away).  Getting those breaks really help with the emotional exhaustion.  When you take those breaks and take care of yourself you are better able to be present for your mom when you are together.


I hope this helps.
Take Care 
Panda39
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jasmine123

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« Reply #9 on: November 06, 2018, 09:29:34 AM »

Thanks for continuing this conversation with me. I especially appreciated when you said:

Excerpt
What I'm saying is that she will likely never stop complaining that you don't see her enough no matter what you do, so do what you want to do. 

and

Excerpt
So it is about getting comfortable with being uncomfortable when she is uncomfortable.

I really need to keep working on accepting that I am NOT in control of her feelings and reactions, and that it is LIKELY she will respond with an intense reaction even if I am making healthy relationship choices.

An update on how the visit went:
-This was the first time I had seen my mom sense realizing she has BPD (or at least several of the criteria even though she doesn't have a official diagnosis!). Just knowing more about the disorder and accepting she has it helped relieve my stress so much. It helped me not walk on egg shells, because (like we mentioned above) I realize that even if I do everything"right" she will sill have unstable moods and reactions. It helped me to just be myself, and not try to control her reactions by changing myself.
-Having a bucket list of activities helped (although she tried to change the plan so we could go shopping). But I was more firm with my boundaries (not spending money neither of us actually have and not buying a bunch of stuff I don't need) and we were able to do the other activities I had thought of.
-Having it be a short visit really helped me (even though it wasn't long enough for her)

On a different note, in the future if I want to come back to this post or other posts I made, do you know how I find them? I know I will want to come back to our post to remind myself of some of the truths and suggestions you mentioned.
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Harri
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« Reply #10 on: November 06, 2018, 10:27:13 AM »

Hi jasmine!

I am glad to hear that things went well and you are working on getting okay with your mom being upset ... .love the way Panda explained that!  haha

Excerpt
On a different note, in the future if I want to come back to this post or other posts I made, do you know how I find them? I know I will want to come back to our post to remind myself of some of the truths and suggestions you mentioned
  Towards the top of the page you will see a green tab.  Select MySettings and then you will see your profile page.  Scroll down and you will see where you can view past posts... .the second one on the list.

If that does not work, send me a PM and I will see what I can do.

Take care
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Panda39
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Relationship status: SO and I have been together 9 years and have just moved in together this summer.
Posts: 3462



« Reply #11 on: November 13, 2018, 06:48:36 AM »

Hi jasmine,

I'm glad that you had a better visit with your mom.  That's really what it's about, it's about making a tough relationship with your mom work better for you so you can continue to have a relationship with her.

Keep us posted on how you're doing or if you come to any sticking points, we're always here. 

Panda39

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