PART 2: We broke up a week ago -- is there any hope left?

[macarena]

why can't you be a good person to the person who loves you the most yet he treats me the worst?

I need time to process but I feel like I'm missing a piece of the processing without having the closure of face to face. I hope I can get it sometime. I'm going to be in the city a few more times in the next couple of months so MAYBE I can try to reach out after a month has passed? IDK. but i don't know if that will be enough time. Something will crack him though because it always does. That's another why he doesn't want to see me I think, because he knows he can't resist me and knows the connection will never die. I just cant make sense of it, of any of it. No one can.

I'm glad you're taking time for yourself and have realized it. Any success or updates with your person? 

Precisely because you love him the most, and you know him better than other people, he also probably feels exposed and threatened and ashamed in this difficult situation, - and he feels all those mixed feelings he doesn't have the tools to process constructively. He might lack the ability to sit and discuss the situation in a calm way, because it's just too much for him. You are thinking as a person whose emotional regulation is ok, but his probably isn't. So one way "out" of it is that he just somehow processes it and "boxes" it wherever it is that he stores difficult things and feels better/calmer, and then he might reach out. But I don't think that even then he would be able to analyze what happened.

I don't have much success with my person. We still haven't really talked. Some small improvements include that now he can sometimes greet me or say thank you or look at me, or even help me with something work-related (and I say sometimes because other times he doesn't do that), so at least it is some progress and not complete hardcore ignoring me. So, baby steps. Waiting it out is hard. I want to talk all the time.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[alexvidaa]

Wow, that is a lot of firsts.  That is truly special, and it sounds so tough to have things go as they have.  When I say "mutual understanding," I'm thinking of when the two people's views of "what the heck happened" overlap by 80% or so.  Nobody's playing the victim.  Your views agree enough that the agreement helps you feel confident in your interpretation, and you can take the learning into the next situation with that confidence.  It's the healthy thing to do.  Does that describe what you were aiming for when you talked to him?  Sadly, with a BPD breakup, you may not get it.  Hanging out with folks here can provide an alternative way to reality check and process what happened.

I apologize for the late response! I kept looking for updates on the post but for some reason they've only showed now that I'm on my desktop computer vs on my phone. And yes, that is exactly what I was looking for when I asked to talk to him. I wasn't looking to try to make him get back together with me, and I told him that as well. I sent a text to him before I replied to you all before about this but I just basically told him hey, I get that you can't talk about this now, but maybe we can see where we're both at in a 1-2 months to see if we can just talk to get closure of some sort. And then he blocked me and my entire family on Facebook for some reason after that. Kind of crazy if you ask me. My intention was to do this in a healthy way but I guess you can't do that with people like this sometimes. Apparently "space" to him is him trying to delete me out of his entire life without having to think about me for some time... .whatever amount of time that is. I'm just still shocked he wouldn't meet up for 10 minutes to have a quick talk. He did mention in his text working to not be a bad person to people, but in my text i did mention that one day I hope he comes back and apologizes because the first step to being a "good person" is having the courage to admit faults and trying to make peace with things with the person they've hurt.

I think last time this happened, he didn't want to meet in person either but ended up giving in. He said that when we met he wanted to get back together with me because I was irresistible to him, and that he couldn't deny the connection he kept trying to cut off. None of what he is doing, nor what he has told me so far, has made any sense. All I can do is base my own process on what happened last time. Maybe he is going through some stuff--fear of failing at getting a job and not graduating on time... .and can't take me being there. Maybe he's depressed again. To me, it seems like he's going through an episode of self sabotage, and it started with getting rid of me. If he needs a job in 3 months or he's kicked out of the country, then it doesn't make sense he'd be spending most of his time volunteering in a lab where he's not getting a paying job offer in the future. Someone in his situation should be aggressively looking and spending their time on that, but he's not.

Honestly though I'm so grateful for you guys here. I don't know where I'd be without your support. I'm still trying to process it and idk. The Facebook thing really ticked me off and has erased that ~hope~ of getting back together right away, even though I mentally knew a while ago it couldn't happen. If that makes any sense. So that has helped me move forward a little bit. Do you think he's truly moved on like he says he has?

Does the self sabotage thing sound familiar to you to? Based off of everything you heard, what is your take on all of this?

You wondered if a month might be enough time to wait to approach him again.  Typically, best results are achieved when we let the pwBPD determine the timing.  I'm concerned that if you keep guessing the timing and reaching out, you'll continue to be disappointed.

Well I really can't reach out anymore. I really can't. There's nothing I can do at this point. Do you think he'll eventually reach out?

When dealing with a tough situation involving someone else who we can't control, one coping strategy is to make a plan to get as many of our needs as possible met in ways we can control.  One need we've talked about is processing "what the heck happened?"  What other needs or wants might you have?  If you're not sure, perhaps start by saying each of the feelings you're having, and think if they lead to any needs or wants as you think about how to process them.

The needs that I have right now mostly come from processing.
Another one is that a huge reason I went to live with him is because I can't take being at home. It's very chaotic here. He knew that too. So I'm trying to work on finding a job again in the city to make my own income to support myself and live on my own. Most of my friends are in the city and I actually really miss it. I don't find myself wanting to invest a year of my life here in my home city.
Friends are another need too. True friends, friends to have fun with. Again, most of these friends are in the city so I'm trying to plan a trip ever 2-3 weeks or so since it's relatively close.
I'm still in a transition process I guess.

[once removed]

None of what he is doing, nor what he has told me so far, has made any sense.

i think that it makes sense. hes shown you his cards. if we dont respect someone elses walls, they will build higher ones.

i think its hard to see let alone accept because of the magnitude of the hurt, but it will be easier in time.

[alexvidaa]

i think that it makes sense. hes shown you his cards. if we dont respect someone elses walls, they will build higher ones.

i think its hard to see let alone accept because of the magnitude of the hurt, but it will be easier in time.

I mean, yes, I understand that. However, in many ways, I think that goes both ways too. He crossed many lines on my side that were unnecessary. I was really willing to just let it go and step away, up until he sent me back all of the hurtful stuff. I did not want that in my possession because it was already hurtful enough to have it, but the act of sending it to me to hurt me was more than I could handle. So I did want to give it back at that point.

I see where you're coming from. I do. I think it would've been easier to deal with and handle if we had set those expectations up front. What is hard about saying "i don't want to talk to you right now. I need time to myself, don't contact me for now and we'll talk in ____ amount of time?" Maybe it's too much to expect, but that certainly would've helped me. It's hard to step back when you've been involved in so much hurt and looking for answers.

Do you think it's too late?

[alexvidaa]

Precisely because you love him the most, and you know him better than other people, he also probably feels exposed and threatened and ashamed in this difficult situation, - and he feels all those mixed feelings he doesn't have the tools to process constructively. He might lack the ability to sit and discuss the situation in a calm way, because it's just too much for him. You are thinking as a person whose emotional regulation is ok, but his probably isn't. So one way "out" of it is that he just somehow processes it and "boxes" it wherever it is that he stores difficult things and feels better/calmer, and then he might reach out. But I don't think that even then he would be able to analyze what happened.

I apologize for not seeing your reply earlier! and I agree, I think that a part of him feels ashamed. But do you think there will ever be a time where it will be "okay"? It's insane to me to just cut someone that's the closest to you completely out of your life at the drop of a hat. How does he not want to reach out? I'm just not sure.

I feel your pain, I really do with everything.

[alexvidaa]

I thought that my mind was starting to do okay with it all after the Facebook blocking. But now, I think that the desire to still be back with him is manifesting in other places. I constantly have dreams about him coming back and apologizing to me, and somehow we are all good again. While I know that this isn't a reality, because he isn't even the same person he is when we were "good" in a relationship, it sucks because it makes me feel like it's still what I want. Him. This is why I'm afraid of holding out hope that he would come back or try to talk to me It makes me feel pathetic tbh.

[macarena]

I apologize for not seeing your reply earlier! and I agree, I think that a part of him feels ashamed. But do you think there will ever be a time where it will be "okay"? It's insane to me to just cut someone that's the closest to you completely out of your life at the drop of a hat. How does he not want to reach out? I'm just not sure.

I feel your pain, I really do with everything.

I *want to believe* there will be such time that they feel okay and feel ready to approach us. I also believe that a deep connection doesn’t go away completely...

I do think they want to reach out though, at some level, they just can’t right now. All the blocking and purposeful ignoring is acting out. It’s stress/ shame/ guilt/ mixed feelings but a person who is completely indifferent towards you won’t do that (I think). But will he ever be ready? We don’t know.

I know being blocked hurts a lot, but after some time I started seeing it as a blessing. When he was not blocking me and was still not talking/ was ignoring, I was constantly tempted to say something, something that maybe - magically - would resolve the situation. And there is no such thing on my side because he needs to do that. So now I’m blocked, and I can’t say anything and I’m not constantly anxious about should I/ shouldn’t I— it’s his thing to do. He knows I’m here and he can come to me. Will he? That’s up to him, I don’t have any control over that.

I feel your pain too.

[once removed]

What is hard about saying "i don't want to talk to you right now. I need time to myself, don't contact me for now and we'll talk in ____ amount of time?"

he did, though. not just directly, but yelling and blaming you, blocking you, threatening you, these are all increasingly loud ways of saying this.

when most relationships end, theres a certain unspoken agreement of sorts, that both parties need space to get back to baseline (or take significant time apart, depending) and then they will "deal with" each other, have that conversation, see where it goes. if we press to make it happen on our time table, it usually doesnt go well and pushes the other party away.

This is why I'm afraid of holding out hope that he would come back or try to talk to me It makes me feel pathetic tbh.

i think this is something we have to work through at our own pace.

theres nothing inherently wrong with having hope, though it keeps us attached at some level. certainly, if you want to detach, letting go of the hope is part of the process. but thats a very personal decision.

my ex jumped straight into a relationship she was lining up before we broke up. i held out hope for some months. i guess i figured the relationship would blow up quickly, but i just simply wasnt ready to let go, and that was okay. the part of me that wanted to worked toward it mentally and emotionally, while the other part of me went through the motions, passed the time, and tried to get life back to normal while i waited. eventually i made the decision to let go. it moved me into a new, darker kind of depression and grief, which i eventually emerged from. it was hard. i couldnt get to that place until i was ready, on my own terms.

is there hope that he will reach out? i think there is. i think there are several complicating factors.

i think there has been a fair amount of damage done with the reaching out. he has erected some pretty high walls. going back to what i mentioned about resentment, incentive, and trust, while the resentment will definitely fade, he may reach the conclusion that its a greater kindness for both of you to move on.

whether he simply reached out, or wanted to reconcile the relationship, i think that there are significant factors that would not make for a smooth landing, and things likely would not go well. i think there is understandable hurt and resentment on your end. i get the sense that you presently, and in the future, would want him to hear that, and mend it, and would push for him to do so. its pretty common to two parties in this situation, and at the end of the day, its a relationship killer, usually blows things up.

i think that in your anxiety and hurt, you can be reactive, and it may obscure you from seeing both the natural consequences, and from seeing things from his perspective. there is simultaneously a lot of justification ("well he did this so i did that") and assigning theories to why hes behaving the way that he is, that may have simpler explanations. i get the impression that this dynamic was festering in the relationship long before the breakup. that there was a lot of conflict (most of it small stuff that built up), and that he felt smothered.

my breakup felt sudden and unexpected, out of nowhere, and a gigantic shock to me. my partner was, frankly, pretty obsessive, very dependent on me, and i spent a lot of our nearly three years together fighting to just get some space from her, so the idea that she could or would ever leave seemed pretty far fetched, and in some ways, i felt and invested in a lot of security in that. in our last several months, things got increasingly ugly. she said and did some things that there really werent any coming back from, but neither of us had the guts to end it. so i mentally and emotionally abandoned the relationship. she started looking elsewhere. eventually, i decided that i wanted to reinvest in the relationship. it felt to me like we were on an upswing, and going well. she said it was as if she fell in love with me all over again. some days later, she went incredibly distant on me, seemingly over night. it took me a few days to notice, but when i did, boy did it make me anxious. i confronted her, and we got in a fight. suddenly it occurred to me, and i asked her if she had been thinking of breaking up with me, and she replied, through tears, "yes".

as the days went by, and we didnt speak, i couldnt understand what had changed. how she was able to do it. why she wasnt struggling like i was, given that we spent an inordinate amount of time together and had been beyond close. i began to ruminate like crazy on what could have happened, what made her flip this switch. it was to the point that i wondered what the weather/season change might have had to do with it. anything to explain what was causing me pain.

people tried to tell me, gently, that it made sense. that i had neglected and abandoned her. that while not a healthy coping mechanism or to excuse her actions, she began to detach and look elsewhere. that she had done some level of grieving the relationship already. hearing this, of course, would send me into a total tailspin and cause me to ruminate for hours on end.

this is the case in 99% of breakups. we feel blindsided because we werent on the same page, in the same place, and didnt see it coming, but usually the signs are easier to see in hindsight when some of the pain subsides. its always easier for the person doing the breakup. theyre in a different place. part of them may even be relieved, for a while, to get away.

as i mentioned before, i think that there has been a lot of pressure and tension building throughout this relationship. i suspect that that has caused him, over time, to pull away, and eventually, to begin to grieve the relationship. this is what hes told his friends. its what he told you by text. i would put some money on the idea that it started for him, before or after the first breakup/make up. the reaching out has probably reinforced his line of thinking on this. if this thought is painful, as it was for me, file it away for now, revisit it later.

so what happens next, what happens going forward? human nature being what it is, no one can feel very comfortable with a close relationship ending on such a bad note. we tend to want a do over... .to feel okay about our ex, and ourselves, get some closure. this is why you may read so many stories on this board of post breakup contact. its really not about BPD. it happens all the time. sometimes its about resolving lingering feelings. sometimes its a psychological test of sorts to see if we (or they) can handle it. sometimes its because the resentment subsides, and we (or they) wonder if there is a place for the other in each others lives; that can be temporary or permanent. there arent a lot of exes that become best buddies, (its usually more "friendly" than "friends") but it happens.

while i obviously cannot say it for sure, i think there is a significant likelihood that if you do absolutely nothing toward him from here on, he will reach out, send a "feeler" in some months. poke his head out, test the waters, get a gauge for how you will react. and its human nature that if you push to be heard or have your feelings mended, he will balk quickly. thats not something that someone who broke up with us is in any position to do, and typically, its the last thing they want to do, because it feels like rehashing the old relationship problems they wanted to get away from in the first place.

i think though, that if you use that time to do your own grieving and mourning, emotionally detach, but also use the tools here to get in a stronger, less reactive, and emotionally centered place, reach a greater understanding for his perspective, yours, and how all of this plays out and has played out for the two of you from 30000 ft up, you will be in a better place when and if the time comes that he does reach out. if you arent reactive, and are light and upbeat, dont mention the breakup/relationship/hurt it will catch him off guard in a good way. the human nature response will be to remember what he liked about you, and move closer to seeing you in that light, wondering what youre up to, and whether theres a place in your life for him. will that grow into more (good friends) or a reconciliation attempt is impossible to say, but if it were to happen, wounds would need to be healed to the extent they can be, and the relationship would need to look very different or it wouldnt be very long until things blew up and caused even greater hurt.

all of this is a long winded way of saying that if youre going to hold hope, you need to use this time to play the long game, to grieve and mourn, and emerge from that in a different, more insightful, more prepared place. better, older, wiser, stronger, with new tools in your toolkit, (i would do this regardless of which path you take, it will help you in future relationships and make you a more resilient person). or you may decide thats a tall order, not worth it, and we will offer hugs and talk you through it. or you may do some of both until youre ready to make a firm decision one way or another. you dont have to choose today. we will be here to support you in whatever path you take  

[alexvidaa]

I *want to believe* there will be such time that they feel okay and feel ready to approach us. I also believe that a deep connection doesn’t go away completely...

I'm a big believer in that too. Sometimes people look at me like I'm crazy though whenever I say that deep connections don't just go away. I really think if you've loved someone that a part of you will always love them. Or maybe that is just for sensitive people. I'm not sure. Either way, I believe it's true! If you're really in touch with your inner self then I think you can know those things.

I do think they want to reach out though, at some level, they just can’t right now. All the blocking and purposeful ignoring is acting out. It’s stress/ shame/ guilt/ mixed feelings but a person who is completely indifferent towards you won’t do that (I think). But will he ever be ready? We don’t know.

I agree with you on that one. I don't feel like people block someone unless they've done something really bad. In my case tho, I just don't think he could take the possibility of me contacting him, and for him, out of sight out of mind! That's why I'm unsure... .should I unfollow him on social media too? I don't have a need to block him but does staying followed to him send the wrong message like I'm holding out for him? or does it say that I'm indifferent towards the situation? or does it give him a sense of security that since I'm still following him, if he wanted to come back to talk, that it'd be safe? tbh i think unfollowing and stuff like that is immature but also he's literally deleted me off of anything in his life, so should I do the same?
LOL I'm sorry I over think way too many things here. He also has not deleted our instagram pictures together... has not blocked me there or on twitter, so yay? If that were the case, then why would he block me on Facebook and no where else? It's all highly confusing/comical/idk

I know being blocked hurts a lot, but after some time I started seeing it as a blessing. When he was not blocking me and was still not talking/ was ignoring, I was constantly tempted to say something, something that maybe - magically - would resolve the situation. And there is no such thing on my side because he needs to do that. So now I’m blocked, and I can’t say anything and I’m not constantly anxious about should I/ shouldn’t I— it’s his thing to do. He knows I’m here and he can come to me. Will he? That’s up to him, I don’t have any control over that.

I feel your pain too.

have you ever been unblocked? I've heard some people play the block/unblock game. I agree with you though, it really makes you feel powerless! BUT at the same time gives you the peace of mind that you can't do anything anyway, even if you wanted to, so it's pointless for your mind to even fathom it. I agree though, at this point, he needs to come to me for any further contact.

[alexvidaa]

he did, though. not just directly, but yelling and blaming you, blocking you, threatening you, these are all increasingly loud ways of saying this.

when most relationships end, theres a certain unspoken agreement of sorts, that both parties need space to get back to baseline (or take significant time apart, depending) and then they will "deal with" each other, have that conversation, see where it goes. if we press to make it happen on our time table, it usually doesnt go well and pushes the other party away.

Thank you OR for your post. At times it almost made me tear up, in a good way. It means a lot you took the time to write all of that out.

Clearly, I like to communicate. I don't do well with the indirect actions because I feel like there are too many ways to interpret. If someone is acting out, I ask about it. With this guy here, I've always asked him to communicate with me and be upfront, and I've done the same thing with him too since he seems to miss social cues at times. While I get it can't always happen in my time, I still would've appreciated a "let's not talk for a while, but maybe later" type of thing. Maybe it's my anxiety. I'm not sure.

theres nothing inherently wrong with having hope, though it keeps us attached at some level. certainly, if you want to detach, letting go of the hope is part of the process. but thats a very personal decision.

It's really hard to think about letting to completely. One of my traits is that I [unfortunately] always have hope. I always will think of the best (while of course contemplating the worst). Even though I know the possibilities of the worst, I still focus on the best scenarios. In this case though, I'm not sure that's good. Since having hope has gotten me through the worst of times in my life, and even got me through the january breakup, it's hard to even fathom cutting all ties here. Also the fact that holding out hope in the last breakup, and having that workout, is also hard for my brain to contemplate that it's just not happening this time around anymore.

i think there has been a fair amount of damage done with the reaching out. he has erected some pretty high walls. going back to what i mentioned about resentment, incentive, and trust, while the resentment will definitely fade, he may reach the conclusion that its a greater kindness for both of you to move on.

i get the sense that you presently, and in the future, would want him to hear that, and mend it, and would push for him to do so. its pretty common to two parties in this situation, and at the end of the day, its a relationship killer, usually blows things up.

It's been difficult with that. Because like I said, last time, the way I reacted worked. While this time around I actually did contact him way less and did not even call him once, he has reacted way more extreme and seems very sensitive to all things now.

This may have been a mistake but whenever we were on texting terms last week when he was answering some questions, i did tell him as my final closure message that I hope one day that he would at least try to come back and apologize or just talk it out. That wasn't out of no where in the message though, it was preceded by saying that I didn't quite understand his methods of going about things and that I wish he wasn't trying to abolish everything in such an abrasive way. I wished him luck in trying to be a "good person" to other people, but reminded him that also requires having courage to be vulnerable and admit wrongdoings. Retrospectively... .probably not something I should've said. I was going for a more "hey i really want you to know it's safe to talk to me when you want to because I know you probably feel shame and guilt for what you did, and that I am not upset or angry with you" but I'm not sure if he took it that way. Any time we texted about feelings, he would stop the conversation and say enough. Do you think that was bad? D:

I think that he already knows what he's done. I've told him that he's really hurt me the way he went about things, and that I still respected his decision even tho i did not understand it.
I definitely believe in owning up to things on both sides, and I'm just not something I'm sure I could not not do if we tried to remain friends or whatever. I can look back and see where I was wrong too, and I would gladly be open to hearing what he has to say about what he thinks that I did to him too. Clearly this is all something that can't be done right away if contacted again... .just something i'd have to really think about if the opportunity presented itself.

i think that in your anxiety and hurt, you can be reactive, and it may obscure you from seeing both the natural consequences, and from seeing things from his perspective. there is simultaneously a lot of justification ("well he did this so i did that") and assigning theories to why hes behaving the way that he is, that may have simpler explanations. i get the impression that this dynamic was festering in the relationship long before the breakup. that there was a lot of conflict (most of it small stuff that built up), and that he felt smothered.
 
as i mentioned before, i think that there has been a lot of pressure and tension building throughout this relationship. i suspect that that has caused him, over time, to pull away, and eventually, to begin to grieve the relationship. this is what hes told his friends. its what he told you by text. i would put some money on the idea that it started for him, before or after the first breakup/make up. the reaching out has probably reinforced his line of thinking on this. if this thought is painful, as it was for me, file it away for now, revisit it later.

I think you're absolutely right with my anxiety leading to reactivity. It's something I've been trying to work on and for him, even though I would tell him my anxious reactions had nothing to do with him, he never believed me. However, I'm decent at trying to put myself in his shoes. At first I was upset about him asking me to move out, but I eventually talked to him about it and realized it's what he needed for his own peace of mind. Anything he asked for, I genuinely tried to give it to him. There were some things I don't get and probably never will though. No matter how much I told him that he could do what he wanted and that he didn't have to do everything to please me, he never listened. I begged him to do things he wanted so that he'd be happy. Yet he always did the opposite... .like supposedly not taking meds because he wanted to make me happier (like that doesn't even make sense?)

I think he did feel suffocated, but it's weird because sometimes he'd feel that way, and then other times he'd want everything to do with me. In our pictures and from friend's perspectives, they all said and indicate that he was in love with me. If he had pulled away so much, I'm not sure why he'd put in effort to get a job to buy an engagement ring for me. While I 100% agree with the fact that the summer FOR SURE was too much and caused him to withdraw, it wasn't a full withdrawal ever.

The pattern of behavior I've noticed and pulled from this is that he pushes back very hard whenever he has outside stressors (school, needing good grades, finding a job, pressure to stay in the country) as well as when we get very close (each time of the makeup/breakup: proposed to me and then took it back bc he doubted everything in his life, I went to ecuador to meet his whole family which is a huge deal there aka means he's marrying me at some point and then breaks up with me (january), and then this time around, legit planning to buy me a ring and told me how he was proposing to me... .and bam breakup. This time is probably more extreme because of the added stressors of the summer.

IMO I think that him telling his friends that he was over it 6 months ago was a lie to try to make himself feel better and self preserve. and his texts saying he was over it 4 months ago i don't quite buy either because whenever this all started, it would change from "i didnt love you since 1, 2, 3, or 4 months ago." I 100% think that he started to withdraw though at some point maybe a month or so before the break up. I felt it and confronted him about it and that's when he asked me to move out because he felt we were on top of each other all the time. We came back together really strong for 2 weeks before the MCAT and I personally thought it was okay, but he just kept saying how much he really loved being alone and not having to care about someone or talking to someone throughout the day. I'm not quite sure what you mean about the reaching out reinforcing the first breakup/makeup. Could you please elaborate on that?

people tried to tell me, gently, that it made sense. that i had neglected and abandoned her. that while not a healthy coping mechanism or to excuse her actions, she began to detach and look elsewhere. that she had done some level of grieving the relationship already. hearing this, of course, would send me into a total tailspin and cause me to ruminate for hours on end.

thank you for sharing your story with me. I'm hoping that with time like you've described, I can hopefully look back on this and think about the true things that went wrong (on both sides) without emotion so that it will be easier to see. I've you don't mind me asking, how long did it take for you to come to the decision to let go? Did she ever try to contact you afterwards?

while i obviously cannot say it for sure, i think there is a significant likelihood that if you do absolutely nothing toward him from here on, he will reach out, send a "feeler" in some months. poke his head out, test the waters, get a gauge for how you will react.

I think if he reached out I'd be so excited to just be talking to him again. I'd want nothing more than a regular conversation. I'd test the waters too to see if it's even a possibility to talk about how things went in the past, but definitely wouldn't start out with that right off the bat. Even if he tries to see other people, or even if he tries to put me "out of sight out of mind," do people ever come back to think about once was? IDK probably anxiety here but I"m just worried that if he puts me out of his mind or never gets out of the delusion to protect his mind that he actually will forget about me it drives me crazy to think that he's probably out there not even thinking or caring about me, when here I am like upset about him all the time still.

all of this is a long winded way of saying that if youre going to hold hope, you need to use this time to play the long game, to grieve and mourn, and emerge from that in a different, more insightful, more prepared place. better, older, wiser, stronger, with new tools in your toolkit, (i would do this regardless of which path you take, it will help you in future relationships and make you a more resilient person). or you may decide thats a tall order, not worth it, and we will offer hugs and talk you through it. or you may do some of both until youre ready to make a firm decision one way or another. you dont have to choose today. we will be here to support you in whatever path you take  

you've offered great advice and i always appreciate a listening ear to help me work through this. Honestly, i do not know what i would do without you or any of the others who have contributed to my post too. It's hard too because people in my life who have talked to me about this just tell me he's a jerk and I should be lucky I'm not with him anymore because of how awful he was to me. I'm afraid to tell them that I still love him, and if I do ever mention or allude to it, they think I'm crazy.
I'm trying to go through the emotions and stuff. It's been a very hard time for me because of the stress of the whole new life transition of moving back home (a place that has put me into a deep depression before), living in a chaotic house, feeling lonely because I don't have friends here yet... .it's a lot to go through and oddly makes me miss living with him even though at the end he got very emotionally abusive (even before the relationship ended). It's hard because these are things i could go talk to him about and he'd help me calm down. So it feels like I'm down in the trenches here. I suppose if I can get through this, I can get through anything. The fact that I don't have much to distract myself with right now is probably good so that I can try to sift through my emotions and get through it day by day.
As of now, I think I'd still want him back. The dreams I've been having at night have been setting me back because I'm pushing myself so hard to move on, but the dreams make me realize what I really want. and it's not attainable right now, so long game it is. I'm not sure how to make it through though, or how I know I'm making progress.

I'm so sorry this was long. Bless up if you end up reading this whole thing. Like I said, you have no idea how much it means that you take time to reply and read all of my questions/uncertainties/anxieties/etc.

[macarena]

I'm unsure... .should I unfollow him on social media too? I don't have a need to block him but does staying followed to him send the wrong message like I'm holding out for him? or does it say that I'm indifferent towards the situation? or does it give him a sense of security that since I'm still following him, if he wanted to come back to talk, that it'd be safe? tbh i think unfollowing and stuff like that is immature but also he's literally deleted me off of anything in his life, so should I do the same?
LOL I'm sorry I over think way too many things here. He also has not deleted our instagram pictures together... has not blocked me there or on twitter, so yay? If that were the case, then why would he block me on Facebook and no where else? It's all highly confusing/comical/idk

have you ever been unblocked? I've heard some people play the block/unblock game. I agree with you though, it really makes you feel powerless! BUT at the same time gives you the peace of mind that you can't do anything anyway, even if you wanted to, so it's pointless for your mind to even fathom it. I agree though, at this point, he needs to come to me for any further contact.

Honestly, I don’t think the social media thing is that significant. When our conflict happened, he unfriended me on some and I unfriended him on some other (I know, very immature on my side, but I was so angry I couldn’t care less in the moment). If I did it all over, I wouldn’t do anything on SM at all. So I don’t think not doing anything on your side sends a particular message. And I don’t think he would seek a message in it either, I don’t think it would stir him in one direction or the other. Just let it be. (I’m not blocked on any SM and he hasn’t blocked me either but I won’t add him back until he contacts me).

As for blocking, the first month he was blocking and unblocking me constantly (sometimes several times a day, sometimes once a week). Considering I was not trying to contact him at all, that was pretty crazy. Then he unblocked me inAugust and that’s where I made a couple of attempts at contact, one of which resulted in us talking and after that, him blocking me completely (although nothing bad happened during that talk). Since that moment, nothing (1.5 mo). I’m only blocked on WhatsApp (our main channel of communication), but I don’t think him not blocking me on other channels holds any significance, nor will I try to contact him elsewhere. It’s his call. I know it can be a long wait though, as in months, even a year (as for me). I love him and I am open to communication if he wants to, but i also won’t hold my breath for it during all this time (life is too short). Let’s hope it turns out the best way (and also maybe that we also don’t forget about living our lives while waiting)

[once removed]

Sometimes people look at me like I'm crazy though whenever I say that deep connections don't just go away.

one of the lessons i learned is that two people are usually on a different page as to where they both are in terms of connection. sometimes what a person considers a deep connection, the other doesnt - certainly not implying thats the case here, just giving an example.

often, connections slowly break down over time. our article here is one of the most useful/informative ive ever read, utterly changed how i view relationships, and my perspective as to how they break down: https://bpdfamily.com/content/your-relationship-breaking-down

tbh i think unfollowing and stuff like that is immature but also he's literally deleted me off of anything in his life, so should I do the same?

blocking is erecting a high wall, and it should be done or not done with a number of considerations, starting with "why". are we using it as a crutch, because we are unable to stop viewing someones social media. it makes some sense temporarily in that case; i prefer unfollowing or being strong enough to stop doing it, because you can just as easily unblock them. are we doing it because someone is contacting us in an invasive, intrusive, or threatening way? it makes some sense in that case, although it can also escalate things, cause someone to ramp up their effort when there may be other ways to simmer things down. are we doing it to get back at someone or send a message? thats just immature.

follow your values on this. is there a need to block him?

quite often, the first sign that resentment is thawing is not direct contact, but a person unblocking you. the biggest mistake that people make when it happens is to consider it a mind game, or to believe that the other person wants them to reach out. it typically is what it is: someone saying they dont need that level of avoidance anymore, no less, no more. it can be a good sign, but if it were to happen, id encourage anyone not to take it as an invitation for contact.

Clearly, I like to communicate. I don't do well with the indirect actions because I feel like there are too many ways to interpret. If someone is acting out, I ask about it.
... .
Maybe it's my anxiety. I'm not sure.

the strongest advice i can give you is be open to the lessons and ways this experience can change you for the better. as someone with anxiety, i can say it tends to create a need for instant gratification, often in self defeating ways. sometimes its best to wait, to sleep on it, or let it go completely. over time, we can tame that urge, lessen its power, and act (or not) in Wisemind: https://bpdfamily.com/content/triggering-and-mindfulness-and-wise-mind

It's really hard to think about letting to completely. One of my traits is that I [unfortunately] always have hope. I always will think of the best (while of course contemplating the worst). Even though I know the possibilities of the worst, I still focus on the best scenarios. In this case though, I'm not sure that's good.

ive never broken up with anyone before, for the same reasons. the lesson for me wasnt to beat someone to the punch, but to spot cancer on a doomed relationship rather than continue to invest, and make a hard choice that means pain today, but greater mental health tomorrow. sometimes hope is another word for fear. fear of the unknown. fear of abandonment.

im not making the case to let go of hope, by the way. just to look at it objectively and not let it be your only guiding principle. put hope in things that are in your control. incidentally, doing so has a calming and empowering effect.

Any time we texted about feelings, he would stop the conversation and say enough. Do you think that was bad? D:

you are talking to the king of cringe worthy post breakup communications. i took an ex to CATS once a few days after we broke up. i cried the whole time, and the whole time in the car ride back. she pretended not to notice. i wore my heart on my sleeve an awful lot when id get dumped in the hopes that it would get someone back.

in general, i think it makes us look weak and needy, possibly disrespectful/bad boundaries, its not attractive posturing, and a hard lesson i learned is that someone doing the breaking up is in no position, nor wants to be, to heal our wounds.

it wasnt advisable. i sincerely doubt it would make or break whether he contacts you or not, ultimately, though it might have happened sooner if its going to happen.

I definitely believe in owning up to things on both sides, and I'm just not something I'm sure I could not not do if we tried to remain friends or whatever.

i think we cant force someone to see things the way that we do and validate it. i think youve already tried. in general, its best not to put ourselves in a position where we are open to that hurt again. if he had a disorder where he uncontrollably punched you in the face, after the first time, you wouldnt keep trying to have a conversation about how it was wrong and why he shouldnt do it again. youd adjust your relationship accordingly. extreme example, but its possible that this is an irreconcilable difference.

While I 100% agree with the fact that the summer FOR SURE was too much and caused him to withdraw, it wasn't a full withdrawal ever.

it rarely is. its a slow boil that starts with a seed, and may not even be conscious for a long time. it may manifest in a push/pull... .grief doesnt happen over night, and can trigger the fear of abandonment. it seemingly occurred to me out of nowhere to break up with my ex, before she broke up with me. the thought scared me. its what propelled me to reinvest. she probably had similar going on when we got together, had a great time, and she said she fell in love with me all over again. people have doubts, second thoughts, third fourth and fifth thoughts. they either break things off gently and maturely, or they explode, or they reach for other means like trying to get you to dump them first instead.

and none of what ive said is to paint him as a saint by the way. certainly he may have self imposed pressure, people do that in relationships sometimes, and then blame/resent the other person for it.

IMO I think that him telling his friends that he was over it 6 months ago was a lie to try to make himself feel better and self preserve. and his texts saying he was over it 4 months ago i don't quite buy either because whenever this all started, it would change from "i didnt love you since 1, 2, 3, or 4 months ago."

i suspect some of it might be embellishment, some of it is uncertainty, and that theres also a kernel of truth in all of it. was he over it in 6 months? probably not, and his actions probably contradicted that as you can testify to. it may have been when the seed was planted and a level of grief or doubt began. people usually cant pin down the time or place when it started, and theres all kinds of uncertainty, changing of the mind, push and pull we may never even see in the process. its kind of like the question "when did you fall in love?". ask three different times, youll probably get three different answers.

I'm not quite sure what you mean about the reaching out reinforcing the first breakup/makeup. Could you please elaborate on that?

i meant with the final breakup. i had an online friendship, a pen pal of sorts. she was really pushy for my time and attention. made me feel sorry for her, but mostly felt really intrusive and invasive, demanding, disrespectful. eventually she pushed to meet. i told her no. she took it really personally, pushed harder, too hard. at my wits end, i ended the friendship. she went nuts on me with multiple emails. i routed her emails to the trash; i felt badly for hurting her feelings, and id never cut someone off before, but her actions all reinforced to me that id done the right thing, pushed me further in that direction. it goes back to what i said about erecting higher walls.

thank you for sharing your story with me. I'm hoping that with time like you've described, I can hopefully look back on this and think about the true things that went wrong (on both sides) without emotion so that it will be easier to see. I've you don't mind me asking, how long did it take for you to come to the decision to let go? Did she ever try to contact you afterwards?

i think most people write and rewrite their narrative of "what happened" many, many times, perhaps getting a little closer to the truth each time. the lessons can take a while to sink in, too. this being your first relationship, i suspect it will teach for a lifetime, whatever happens.

well, around the one month or so mark i discovered she was getting into my email, reading messages that were sent to me on facebook. i took that as a sign that she wanted me back. when i outed her (i thought i was doing so in an endearing way but thats not how she took it), she used my debit card (didnt know she had it but it had been missing) to make some purchases. i hate thieves, it hurt on an enormous level, and/because i think i knew there wasnt really any coming back from that. still, i let her invade my email while i tried to force the exchange of belongings, get my stuff back, for closure. eventually i accepted that wouldnt happen, and changed my password. that was around 3-4 months out, and it was closing the last connection, which in hindsight i had tried to delay, and thats when i went from just an off the wall basket case, to someone who began to really grieve and mourn.

she never directly contacted me. on two occasions, i got a facebook friend request, i would sit on it for a few hours, and she would eventually retract it. i think she reasonably assumed that i hated her, and feared me rejecting her. it was a "safe" method where she had plausible deniability, that it was an "accident".

or even if he tries to put me "out of sight out of mind," do people ever come back to think about once was? IDK probably anxiety here but I"m just worried that if he puts me out of his mind or never gets out of the delusion to protect his mind that he actually will forget about me it drives me crazy to think that he's probably out there not even thinking or caring about me, when here I am like upset about him all the time still.

i have never taken "out of sight, out of mind" literally, in that someone develops amnesia and forgets you exist. ive never heard of that happening short of a degenerative brain disease. memories fade, senses fade. a person weve been close to may enter our thoughts less frequently, or less powerfully.

do people ever come back to what once was? thats essentially what "painted white" means, and its something that we all do. maybe someone hurt you, and you held a grudge, and then for whatever reason, you remembered why you thought fondly of them and said to yourself "i cant stay mad at you!". and maybe it pushed you to reach out, and maybe it didnt. and maybe, soon after, you remembered why you were angry. a couple that has an amicable breakup and becomes friends may share a laugh and remember why they were attracted to each other in the first place, even if they dont act on it. these things can all be fleeting or long lasting, but resentment and hurt fading do change a persons memories, yes.

i think what i hear you asking is, "does the longer he goes without talking to me mean hes less likely to contact me?", and i think that is probably an anxious thought, its one i felt as well.

i would also say this is not a contest. dont make your thoughts and feelings contingent on what his might or might not be. its not weak to miss or long for someone you have loved. thats what grief and mourning are. try to fight or shame those feelings, and they will grow stronger.

It's hard too because people in my life who have talked to me about this just tell me he's a jerk and I should be lucky I'm not with him anymore because of how awful he was to me. I'm afraid to tell them that I still love him, and if I do ever mention or allude to it, they think I'm crazy.

they probably mean well. i would also guess that youve told them hes a jerk and that he was awful to you . it will confuse most people to hear both messages. here, its pretty common, and we understand that.

It's been a very hard time for me because of the stress of the whole new life transition of moving back home (a place that has put me into a deep depression before), living in a chaotic house, feeling lonely because I don't have friends here yet... .it's a lot to go through and oddly makes me miss living with him

it is a hard transition, and can be an impatient process. when my relationship ended, i expected my life to blossom, to be surrounded by people and things i loved, and when it didnt happen, it discouraged me and worsened my depression.

think of both yourself and your environment as a home. as you are ready, as much as you are ready, put your energy into "fixing it up". make it as attractive and inviting as possible, but also a place where you love to be "at home". your motivation will likely be him at first, and thats okay, if not inevitable at some level. eventually, a shift will happen whether conscious or unconscious, and it will be about you. progress is often in hindsight. you look back. you see that you survived, start to feel like you can thrive. you start to see what you have to show for it.

[alexvidaa]

Honestly, I don’t think the social media thing is that significant. When our conflict happened, he unfriended me on some and I unfriended him on some other (I know, very immature on my side, but I was so angry I couldn’t care less in the moment). If I did it all over, I wouldn’t do anything on SM at all. So I don’t think not doing anything on your side sends a particular message. And I don’t think he would seek a message in it either, I don’t think it would stir him in one direction or the other. Just let it be. (I’m not blocked on any SM and he hasn’t blocked me either but I won’t add him back until he contacts me).

Only social media I'm blocked on is Facebook. but so is my whole family now? I'm not sure why I would be blocked there but not on twitter and instagram too? I've been unfollowed though. Blocked on whatsapp and on the phone. Interesting that he didn't block me on the other two forms of social media he has, considering someone can still send a message there too. I'm not going to because it's not even worth it anymore, but I'm not going to unfollow him though, unless he started posting content with another girl. then maybe i'd unfollow because it'd be too hard to see.

As for blocking, the first month he was blocking and unblocking me constantly (sometimes several times a day, sometimes once a week). Considering I was not trying to contact him at all, that was pretty crazy. Then he unblocked me inAugust and that’s where I made a couple of attempts at contact, one of which resulted in us talking and after that, him blocking me completely (although nothing bad happened during that talk). Since that moment, nothing (1.5 mo). I’m only blocked on WhatsApp (our main channel of communication), but I don’t think him not blocking me on other channels holds any significance, nor will I try to contact him elsewhere. It’s his call. I know it can be a long wait though, as in months, even a year (as for me). I love him and I am open to communication if he wants to, but i also won’t hold my breath for it during all this time (life is too short). Let’s hope it turns out the best way (and also maybe that we also don’t forget about living our lives while waiting)

Well... .so far I don't think I've been unblocked. I go on whatsapp once a day, and so far I'm still blocked. I don't know if I'm blocked still on the phone, probably won't unless he tries to contact me. :/

[alexvidaa]

one of the lessons i learned is that two people are usually on a different page as to where they both are in terms of connection. sometimes what a person considers a deep connection, the other doesnt - certainly not implying thats the case here, just giving an example.

often, connections slowly break down over time. our article here is one of the most useful/informative ive ever read, utterly changed how i view relationships, and my perspective as to how they break down: https://bpdfamily.com/content/your-relationship-breaking-down

I've read the article. It's weird because the things that are on there weren't necessarily from us as a couple, but more from him. Whenever we'd get into a fight, we'd talk it out. Sometimes for hours and come to a conclusion. Then there would be times where he'd blow up and tell me that he didn't think I'd understand and it began the process of pushing away, even when I assured him I wanted to understand and hear him out. I've never believed in gridlock so to speak, but there would be times when he did, especially to things he knew that we both believed in, but chose to blame me and tell me that he just didn't think I did anymore or something like that. In my opinion, i think the contempt started because he didnt like me living with him in such a closed space. We have been through lots of fights but because of our nature of talking things out, it's always been okay. But for some reason not in the summer even though in my opinion, it didn't change for me. His contempt was bad. I tried everything in my power to reassure him, to try to conform to what he wanted (why i lost so many of my boundaries). But at the end of the day, it always made me feel like it wasn't enough. Weirdly enough he would always say that no matter what he would always trust me the most. with his life and his heart. Clearly I'm still confused with some of it.

we have many compatible values and dreams and goals. I think somewhere along the lines, his changed. along with his increasingly negative outlook on life. I read back on some texts and man was he a different guy a year ago. so happy. it's almost like him going to school changed who he was, and I don't recognize him anymore. I feel like i'm mourning not only a relationship but someone who's still alive.

follow your values on this. is there a need to block him?

quite often, the first sign that resentment is thawing is not direct contact, but a person unblocking you. the biggest mistake that people make when it happens is to consider it a mind game, or to believe that the other person wants them to reach out. it typically is what it is: someone saying they dont need that level of avoidance anymore, no less, no more. it can be a good sign, but if it were to happen, id encourage anyone not to take it as an invitation for contact.

I was not planning on blocking him, only maybe unfollowing him. I don't want to send a message of desperation by following him still. If he for some reason unblocked me on whatsapp, then I probably wouldn't contact him. he hasn't blocked me on insta or twitter, but still has on Facebook. Just weird to me tbh.

the strongest advice i can give you is be open to the lessons and ways this experience can change you for the better. as someone with anxiety, i can say it tends to create a need for instant gratification, often in self defeating ways. sometimes its best to wait, to sleep on it, or let it go completely. over time, we can tame that urge, lessen its power, and act (or not) in Wisemind: https://bpdfamily.com/content/triggering-and-mindfulness-and-wise-mind

you're right there! My anxiety creates the need to solve something right away. That's why the waiting game isn't my favorite  but it's always good to try.

im not making the case to let go of hope, by the way. just to look at it objectively and not let it be your only guiding principle. put hope in things that are in your control. incidentally, doing so has a calming and empowering effect.

funny, i don't really think our relationship was doomed. In his mind, he twisted everything up. He really did. I've gone through everything. When it comes down to it, I truly believe the relationship ended was him responding to life stressors and getting too close to me. Any logical response to feeling agitated by someone living together in too close of a space would know that those feelings are a result of the situation, not of the person. It's almost like he cannot distinguish that, and even when i've mentioned it to him, he won't make any comments on it (and he's VERY vocal when I say things that he thinks are wrong).

The impending doom was his inability to tell me what was going on. He clearly had things going on. Like who doesn't take their antidepressants just to increase sex drive with the logic that that would make me do better on the MCAT? I'm not minimizing the summer stressors because of course they probably contributed, but like I said, normal people can step back and use logic to figure out that living so close for too long was probably the issue. And after all of our history together, I feel like anyone would give it a chance to see.
Maybe I'm just salty. After I gave him multiple chances, he can't step back and see things for what they really are in reality. He'd rather throw everything away.

in general, i think it makes us look weak and needy, possibly disrespectful/bad boundaries, its not attractive posturing, and a hard lesson i learned is that someone doing the breaking up is in no position, nor wants to be, to heal our wounds.

it wasnt advisable. i sincerely doubt it would make or break whether he contacts you or not, ultimately, though it might have happened sooner if its going to happen.

maybe it wasn't advisable... .but also... .flip side here is what if he NEVER reaches out? then I'd regret not saying it. Or maybe I wouldn't. I don't know. I agree maybe reaching out probably made me look desperate and disrespecting boundaries, but like I said, instead of just playing the ignoring game at first, why wouldn't he just tell me to leave him alone until he's ready to talk?

i think we cant force someone to see things the way that we do and validate it. i think youve already tried. in general, its best not to put ourselves in a position where we are open to that hurt again. if he had a disorder where he uncontrollably punched you in the face, after the first time, you wouldnt keep trying to have a conversation about how it was wrong and why he shouldnt do it again. youd adjust your relationship accordingly. extreme example, but its possible that this is an irreconcilable difference.

an extreme example, but helpful nonetheless . I see your points here. I cannot change him. Right now, he's definitely doing the face punching. In this way, I know he will continue to do it until he can calm down and stop hiding from himself and his feelings. If he was truly over everything and didn't feel anything for me anymore, he wouldn't have an issue meeting me. If he really thought that I was going to "hurt him" then maybe he is truly delusional! It's wild to me he even said that to me, but to be honest, he said that to me last time too. He met me anyway, and when I met with him, he was so delicate. I wasn't there to challenge him to to get back together with him, but it's what he wanted and he couldn't control that. Maybe he is very hurt right now, and that's why he couldn't meet with me. What are your thoughts on this? If he's hurt, why wouldn't he try to fix it... .

and none of what ive said is to paint him as a saint by the way. certainly he may have self imposed pressure, people do that in relationships sometimes, and then blame/resent the other person for it.

it seems like a mix of 95% explosion and 5% of him trying to get me to break up with him. He asked me to break up with him one time whenever he got really angry at me for something I didn't actually do. It left me very confused because I told him we could just talk through it. BUT he's always done that. To me, it's what he says when he just wants me to leave him alone or he's reached a point where he can't emotionally take what we are talking about. Other than that, 100% explosion.

IMO it was much self imposed pressure. He knows I'm a kinda hearted person and always up for the truth. If he didn't tell me something it's because he didn't want to share it for some reason. Like I talked about before a mix of this led to a blow up here, again, which (most) of his self imposed: not being able to find a job or getting kicked out of the country, needing high grades, wanting more friends but being kind of socially awkward to do so, stopping his meds abruptly then getting back on them around this time and dealing with the consequential negative (partially suicidal) thoughts that came back during the time he wasn't on them, dealing with me about to leave and move away (!which! by the way, he told me THE WEEK BEFORE HE BROKE UP WITH ME that he talked to his therapist about HOW TO DEAL WITH MISSING ME SO MUCH!... .please tell me how you go from that to "i hate you"? this is a real question here ), and then of course the summer stressors of living together too closely of which i can take some responsibility for.

i suspect some of it might be embellishment, some of it is uncertainty, and that theres also a kernel of truth in all of it. was he over it in 6 months? probably not, and his actions probably contradicted that as you can testify to.

funny enough he can tell me the exact moment when he fell in love with me. I can't tell you that about him though. Maybe the "seed" you're talking about (in my perspective) is that you kind of already know what it's like to be broken up if you've been through a cycle before? Is that what you're getting at?

her actions all reinforced to me that id done the right thing, pushed me further in that direction. it goes back to what i said about erecting higher walls.

i think its a little easy to get weary about people you don't know trying to get too close too fast, or pushing to meet when you don't know them. it's hard to imagine this happening with someone you've shared so many years with, who knows you better than anyone. Someone that you've gone further with boundary wise before and this reaction was not brought on. I get what you're saying in the sense though that whether he stated his boundary or not, I apparently crossed it unknowingly. (this is something i let him know in my closure text, that i wasn't trying to be disrespectful, it's just that i truly did not know the expectation).

well, around the one month or so mark i discovered she was getting into my email, reading messages that were sent to me on facebook. i took that as a sign that she wanted me back. when i outed her (i thought i was doing so in an endearing way but thats not how she took it), she used my debit card (didnt know she had it but it had been missing) to make some purchases.
she never directly contacted me. on two occasions, i got a facebook friend request, i would sit on it for a few hours, and she would eventually retract it. i think she reasonably assumed that i hated her, and feared me rejecting her. it was a "safe" method where she had plausible deniability, that it was an "accident".

WOW that is wild too! I don;t know how I'd feel about someone with my debit cards. Did you ever contact her after that? How did you find your closure?

i have never taken "out of sight, out of mind" literally, in that someone develops amnesia and forgets you exist. ive never heard of that happening short of a degenerative brain disease. memories fade, senses fade. a person weve been close to may enter our thoughts less frequently, or less powerfully.

not in the literal sense, but in the sense that if he doesn't have to see me, that he'll eventually stop thinking about me. If someone truly loves someone can that actually work?

do people ever come back to what once was? thats essentially what "painted white" means, and its something that we all do. maybe someone hurt you, and you held a grudge, and then for whatever reason, you remembered why you thought fondly of them and said to yourself "i cant stay mad at you!". and maybe it pushed you to reach out, and maybe it didnt. and maybe, soon after, you remembered why you were angry. a couple that has an amicable breakup and becomes friends may share a laugh and remember why they were attracted to each other in the first place, even if they dont act on it. these things can all be fleeting or long lasting, but resentment and hurt fading do change a persons memories, yes.

do you think theres a possibility of that happening here? that after resentment fades that he'll remember the good things about me? after maybe his fear of being close to me fades, that he'll remember that he did love me? I'm confused if that is what you meant in your last sentence.

i think what i hear you asking is, "does the longer he goes without talking to me mean hes less likely to contact me?", and i think that is probably an anxious thought, its one i felt as well.

Well... .I wasn't thinking about that but now I am! Wow... .is it true?

they probably mean well. i would also guess that youve told them hes a jerk and that he was awful to you . it will confuse most people to hear both messages. here, its pretty common, and we understand that.

honestly, quite the opposite. when it first happened, i kept crying. i blamed myself for literally almost everything. what i couldve done for him. what i couldve done for him to not do this. anything even as minuscule as not cleaning the bathroom the minute he asked me to, I thought of "this made me "bad" in his eyes." I [still] cry because I love him and I'm depressed without him, especially in this time in my life. Weird because he's the reason Im here, yet all I want is to talk to him to get me through it because he was my person.

progress is often in hindsight. you look back. you see that you survived, start to feel like you can thrive. you start to see what you have to show for it.

I'm hoping so. sometimes i feel like i take two steps forward, one step backward. I go days without crying, then in random moments I break down. I miss him a lot, especially when he was my calm in the midst of a messy household.
On another note, I have a dream job interview back in the city! It's the first thing in a long time I've been excited about!

[once removed]

I tried everything in my power to reassure him, to try to conform to what he wanted (why i lost so many of my boundaries).

i get the impression that you both felt similarly, handled/responded to it differently. 

looking back at your earlier posts, you describe a lot of little fights (pillow sweat) and needling each other. i think the relationship was set to boil. sometimes a little more, sometimes a little less; it wasnt the little fights or the frequency of them, it was the long term conditions.

Any logical response to feeling agitated by someone living together in too close of a space would know that those feelings are a result of the situation, not of the person.

its ironic that something like living together, which inherently means being closer in pretty much every way, often drives couples apart. living together is a big test for both parties, and the relationship as a whole.

think about it. sure, not living together might have defused some tension and given you both more space in the same way that taking the pot off a stove set to boil will simmer it down. if you got back together, youd be faced with the prospect of living together again at some point. how do you think it would go?

I was not planning on blocking him, only maybe unfollowing him. I don't want to send a message of desperation by following him still. If he for some reason unblocked me on whatsapp, then I probably wouldn't contact him. he hasn't blocked me on insta or twitter, but still has on Facebook. Just weird to me tbh.

is unfollowing the same thing as unfriending on this particular app? doing nothing doesnt send a message of desperation. but if it would be better for you (less about sending a message, more about healing) to unfriend/unfollow, its not an unreasonable or immature thing to do by any means.

probably the "i blocked you here and not here" is just a statement that he didnt feel a need to erect walls that high, in the moment or in general. if you were to contact him through those means, i think blocking would be the reaction youd get.

What are your thoughts on this? If he's hurt, why wouldn't he try to fix it... .

i think he has an issue meeting you because he wants space, and because when someone pushes against that, and tries to push for a meeting, it pushes that person away.

dealing with me about to leave and move away (!which! by the way, he told me THE WEEK BEFORE HE BROKE UP WITH ME that he talked to his therapist about HOW TO DEAL WITH MISSING ME SO MUCH!... .please tell me how you go from that to "i hate you"? this is a real question here )

i suspect that this speaks to the grief that may have already been lurking, and the conflicted, back and forth feelings around it that i talked about. i wanted to break up with my ex pretty often during the relationship. once dumped, i was devastated. its possible to want a lot of space, and be frightened by the prospect of getting it. its possible to, in the back of your heart or mind, consider getting out of the relationship, and when faced with you leaving and moving away, move back and forth between fearing the loss, and accepting that it may, inevitably, signal the end you were simultaneously considering and afraid of.

Maybe the "seed" you're talking about (in my perspective) is that you kind of already know what it's like to be broken up if you've been through a cycle before? Is that what you're getting at?

the seed im talking about is doubt; spotting cancer on a relationship and filing it away rather than acting on it. we all do it, sometimes for good reason. but sometimes the seed grows over time.

WOW that is wild too! I don;t know how I'd feel about someone with my debit cards. Did you ever contact her after that?

id left it at her place, but didnt know it. itd been missing for some months. i sort of contacted her but it was very business like. i asked her if she did it, she denied it, i left it at that. i would contact her briefly about exchanging belongings every few weeks. shed give me some excuse. id do it again weeks later. as i would later learn, she was living with the new boyfriend about three hours away, it was simply never going to happen. i dropped it, and that was it.

How did you find your closure?

in the most literal sense, by accepting that the relationship was over, and mourning and completely grieving it.

but over time, by gaining a better understanding of what happened, and how my relationship broke down. (a year) after her i saw two girls (in succession), and it became much clearer to me the extent to which i was the problem in my life and relationships. we were just two wounded people that came together, loved each other a lot, hurt each other a lot, fought hard and loved hard, and at the end of the day, despite the best of intentions and a lot of work, even overcoming some struggles and growing in some ways and growing apart in others, couldnt make it work, werent built to last, and what happened between us, from getting together to breaking up, was largely inevitable based on who we were at the time. we had our time, i cherish and i learn from it; there will be others.

^i didnt get there over night.

not in the literal sense, but in the sense that if he doesn't have to see me, that he'll eventually stop thinking about me. If someone truly loves someone can that actually work?do you think theres a possibility of that happening here? that after resentment fades that he'll remember the good things about me? after maybe his fear of being close to me fades, that he'll remember that he did love me? I'm confused if that is what you meant in your last sentence.

what i mean, by and large, is that the extent of his resentment will fade, as it would with anyone. that does make space to remember a person fondly, to appreciate the things you liked/loved about them. sometimes thats when a person reaches out, sometimes its a longer process. it too, can work like a seed.

im not speaking as if hes running around blacked out right now, and will wake up one morning and say "what have i done". i think its simpler than that.

I'm hoping so. sometimes i feel like i take two steps forward, one step backward. I go days without crying, then in random moments I break down. I miss him a lot, especially when he was my calm in the midst of a messy household.

this is a journey, and whatever happens, you wont be in this place five years from now, or even one year from now. i often say time doesnt heal anything, that its what you do with it, but "what you do with it" still takes some time.

On another note, I have a dream job interview back in the city! It's the first thing in a long time I've been excited about!

cool. whats the job? whens the interview?

[alexvidaa]

looking back at your earlier posts, you describe a lot of little fights (pillow sweat) and needling each other. i think the relationship was set to boil. sometimes a little more, sometimes a little less; it wasnt the little fights or the frequency of them, it was the long term conditions.

what do you mean the long term conditions?

its ironic that something like living together, which inherently means being closer in pretty much every way, often drives couples apart. living together is a big test for both parties, and the relationship as a whole.

We've actually lived together before! For a longer period of time actually. The apartment was a lot bigger and we were opposite situations. I was in school with three jobs, and he wasn't in school and had a part time job. He really didn't have any friends, and I had my own friend circle. It was actually a great time together. This time around, the apartment was a studio, microscopic. I moved to him, so i essentially had no friends. He was the only person I knew and it was going to take a while to make friends. I was introduced to some of his friends from his lab at first, and hence, the mutual friend I used to have before things all went down. After a few months I made some good friends. Anyways, we actually talked about living together again in the future, whenever he was on board with the break. We talked about how we would get a bigger apartment, and how that would be much better for us both.

is unfollowing the same thing as unfriending on this particular app? doing nothing doesnt send a message of desperation. but if it would be better for you (less about sending a message, more about healing) to unfriend/unfollow, its not an unreasonable or immature thing to do by any means.

yes it is! The thing is that I don't want to unfollow, just to maybe follow again in the future... .because then maybe that does send a message?

i think he has an issue meeting you because he wants space, and because when someone pushes against that, and tries to push for a meeting, it pushes that person away.

I suppose you're right on that one too. I was just trying to be reassuring about things, because like I said, he ended up meeting me last time. Because things ended WAY worse than they did this time, maybe that's another reason.

i suspect that this speaks to the grief that may have already been lurking, and the conflicted, back and forth feelings around it that i talked about. i wanted to break up with my ex pretty often during the relationship. once dumped, i was devastated. its possible to want a lot of space, and be frightened by the prospect of getting it. its possible to, in the back of your heart or mind, consider getting out of the relationship, and when faced with you leaving and moving away, move back and forth between fearing the loss, and accepting that it may, inevitably, signal the end you were simultaneously considering and afraid of.

I'm a little confused at this one. So you're saying that him trying to deal with me moving away (something that he asked for, because the apartment situation), was a signal to end things?

He always did not like being in a LDR because he couldn't take the fact that I was away. He said he always felt like part of him was gone and that it was too stressful for him emotionally. think that has anything to do with it?

the seed im talking about is doubt; spotting cancer on a relationship and filing it away rather than acting on it. we all do it, sometimes for good reason. but sometimes the seed grows over time.

well in that case, almost everything became a "doubt" at the end for him: him wanting to follow me to medical school, wanting to marry me, having shaped his life around me (his perception, which i think is interesting considering that I was the one who uprooted my whole life to be with him), etc. Although his life has been filled with doubt. When he first mentioned the breakup, he said that he just wasn't happy or fulfilled with his life, and that since I wasn't making him happy anymore either that I had to go . I honestly thought the whole thing and certainty of it was triggered by getting off the medicine for a couple of weeks and then abruptly going back on it.

When we first broke up he blamed himself for everything. Which, honestly, it was mostly his fault. He couldn't handle the stress of school and decided to take it out on me. He went through depression and almost ruined everything we had (which, not saying I don't care about what he went through! i tried so so hard to support him and even tried saving his life but goodness it was emotionally bearing on me too). I'm not sure he ever forgave himself for what he did to me (he's vocalized this before) even though I told him I did.

I'm not sure he feels that way this time around though. Maybe because he has a new outlet of people that he did not have before (his lab) to distract him. IDK. it's all weird. he's acting like a very different person now too. He used to hate instagram and only posted pictures of us. he thought it was dumb. Now he's posting pictures of irrelevant things (aka things that aren't pictures of him, events, other people, etc). He's become mega social (this guy is a serial loner, not in a rude way). And all in all has taken on a character of a mega jerk (Along with being emotionless and cold). He's not the same person he was when I met him. Hell, he's not even the same person I knew at the beginning of the summer. This person I'm describing is kind of like his "alter-ego" aka someone he turns into when he's trying to protect himself. It used to be episodes that last hours, but now it feels like he's just taken on that persona.

Maybe there's a chance that this is the "new him" but I doubt it. someone making this drastic of a life change in less than a month? Something to me seems off. If he's truly happy like that, then maybe it was for the best.

in the most literal sense, by accepting that the relationship was over, and mourning and completely grieving it.

we were just two wounded people that came together, loved each other a lot, hurt each other a lot, fought hard and loved hard, and at the end of the day, despite the best of intentions and a lot of work, even overcoming some struggles and growing in some ways and growing apart in others, couldnt make it work, werent built to last, and what happened between us, from getting together to breaking up, was largely inevitable based on who we were at the time. we had our time, i cherish and i learn from it; there will be others.

I'm hoping i can get there some day. I can say that during the relationship, especially after all of his threats to break up with me whenever things got hard in his life, I started to need more and more reassurance. I felt insecure in the relationship because the thought that he would break it off at any moment was always in the back of my mind. I poured so much emotional energy into him to make sure he was not going to die or do something crazy.

what i mean, by and large, is that the extent of his resentment will fade, as it would with anyone. that does make space to remember a person fondly, to appreciate the things you liked/loved about them. sometimes thats when a person reaches out, sometimes its a longer process. it too, can work like a seed.

I'm hoping that one day he reaches out. It's funny because today I started to have good memories of him. The ones that made us think we were "meant to be." Crazy and coincidental things that were kind of silly. For example, he found a pair of heart sunglasses near my dorms of my freshman year of college. I lost them, but never realized where they went! Whenever he went back to his home country, he face timed me and put them on. I quickly realized that they were my sunglasses from two years prior, with scratches and marks on them confirming they were mine. Whenever I moved into my university apartment while he was starting grad school in the city, whenever he came to visit me, he told me I had moved into the exact same apartment and room that he had been in (there are over 300 possibilities there). And even just funny things like always being on the same wavelength when we were talking. We'd start conversations about the most random and out there things that literally no one else would bring up, and it'd just so happen to be that the other person was just thinking about the same thing. I remembered how the very first day we met each other, we broke open to each other. We talked about the deepest and most emotional stuff. He told me about his mom's breast cancer, being beat up and bullied as a child, having deep depression and anxiety, self-image problems, and even having plastic surgery at a young age to stop the bullies (and how that sadly didn't work). I opened up on the same level. We both don't trust people very often but the trust, ease, and safety we felt with each other was almost immediate--something we both never experienced before. Our connection was (and probably still is) there since the very beginning, and it was truly something special. We knew that we were just meant to cross paths and it's just so hard to imagine someone like that not ever being there again

This was not very helpful to remember these things though, because once I fell back asleep again, I was dreaming that I was in a panic attack over the breakup. I dreamed I was crying as I was taking down our pictures and saying "why, I just want to understand why?" I think it shows that my mind keeps trying to move on but I just cant and I don't know how to anymore.

im not speaking as if hes running around blacked out right now, and will wake up one morning and say "what have i done". i think its simpler than that.

simpler in what way?

cool. whats the job? whens the interview?

The job is to be a medical assistant and research assistant in one!  I'm talking on the phone with her today and then will have to travel to the city for an in person interview!

[Radcliff]

Good luck with the job interview!  It sounds exciting!

Can you tell us a little more about your chaotic home situation?  Who's living at home?  What about the situation contributed to depression?

RC

[alexvidaa]

Good luck with the job interview!  It sounds exciting!

Can you tell us a little more about your chaotic home situation?  Who's living at home?  What about the situation contributed to depression?

RC

thank you! the phone interview went well so I'm trying to plan a trip to the city this coming week to do the in person interview!

The home situation is almost impossible. Living with my parents who constantly treat me like a child. Ever since I left home and gained all of my true independence and freedom, anytime I've lived here for an extended period of time has launched me into a depression because I feel chained to them and hopeless. They don't give me options. They try to hold things over my head.

It's just not helpful in this case because I just got out of a pretty emotional abusive relationship that was toxic... .and now i'm back in a house that has seemingly gotten more toxic over the years. The whole family probably needs therapy together but I just don't see that happening. It's been sending me into depression and it's really not what I need right now. The parents don't seem to get that I'm anxious and depressed all the time and tell me they don't want to deal with me "figuring myself out" anymore. Definitely not the case, but it's almost like I need to plan an exit plan from here now... .which was him. When I was going to officially move out before everything, he said that if anything ever got really bad that I could go back until I figure out where to go from there. But now... .well it's all me! Which I guess is a good thing. I'm trying to get back out on my feet, just me.

Hence, why I'm so willing to leave to funny enough go back to where I was when I was living with him in the city. It pays well, and I'd be able to support myself and pay my student loans! and most importantly, not have to ask for money from my parents. I love the city and how alive it is! I'm just worried that maybe a part of me is still hopeful about him. Like if anything ever went wrong, I'd always have him for support even as just a friend. Which... .clearly... .since I'm still blocked we are very far from that. But this job is huge and the lady I'd work for has an immense amount of connections to help me advance in my medical career. I guess I have to take a leap of faith for myself here.

Also funny story... .not really. I accidentally unfollowed him **TRUTHFULLY!**. I was on the phone with my friend while i was lurking on his instagram and when I went to tap the top of the screen to switch back to the phone call, my finger slide across the unfollow, and then it did unfollow. I immediately followed back, but then got anxious about it. My friends just told me to leave it as an unfollow for now because that'd be more awkward trying to add him back and him getting the notification now... .I just hope it doesn't send a bad message of me trying to be petty or hurtful. One of my friend said it could show i'm giving him space? because honestly i have no idea how he'd react to me following him back now *maybe being accused of  "suffocating" him again?* but also maybe it's good for me too. Sometimes I feel like such an awkward person and I just don't know what the right thing to do in this case is. If I didn't accidentally unfollow him, I'd definitely still be following him now.

[once removed]

what do you mean the long term conditions?

im speaking generally about relationship foundations. there were cracks.

We've actually lived together before! For a longer period of time actually. The apartment was a lot bigger
... .
This time around, the apartment was a studio, microscopic.

certainly those are two different "pots", one with less pressure. my point is that i dont think it was simply the close proximity, though that can add pressure.

I'm a little confused at this one. So you're saying that him trying to deal with me moving away (something that he asked for, because the apartment situation), was a signal to end things?

specifically, im saying he was likely already conflicted in his feelings of love/clinging vs distance/thinking about ending it. im speculating on what role the prospect of moving away had in that, if any.

He always did not like being in a LDR because he couldn't take the fact that I was away. He said he always felt like part of him was gone and that it was too stressful for him emotionally. think that has anything to do with it?

sure. its fairly "BPDish" with heightened fears of abandonment and engulfment. from a human nature standpoint, if you look at long distance relationships, its also a common theme. there are elements about it that can "work" for both parties. its very difficult long term. and sometimes those things that "work" change when/if the couple moves in close proximity, or in together. the dynamics change.

well in that case, almost everything became a "doubt" at the end for him: him wanting to follow me to medical school, wanting to marry me, having shaped his life around me (his perception, which i think is interesting considering that I was the one who uprooted my whole life to be with him), etc.

where you have BPD traits, you have wild swings with respect to the fears of abandonment and engulfment (looks like push/pull to us) and both tend to come out in over the top ways. for example (not a comment on anything you mentioned specifically), a pwBPD traits can pull us closer hardest when theyre most afraid of losing us, or having doubts themselves. its like when my ex said shed "fallen in love with me all over again". i know now shed been having more than doubts. she swung the other way, back toward me, and expressed it in an over the top way. the stuff im describing happens to all of us on some level, its just more extreme with BPD.

Maybe there's a chance that this is the "new him" but I doubt it. someone making this drastic of a life change in less than a month? Something to me seems off.

for some perspective on this, people going through a breakup often go through this to varying extents, a "new me". a new hair cut. a new hobby. dropping old habits, trying out new things. its about regaining or reinventing a sense of who we are after the enmeshment and attachment of a close relationship. sometimes people can get pretty out there with it.

hows it going today? any update on the job?

[alexvidaa]

im speaking generally about relationship foundations. there were cracks.

There were only cracks once the first make up breakup cycle happened in January. Which happened because apparently he couldn’t handle me being away and also being in a depression.

where you have BPD traits, you have wild swings with respect to the fears of abandonment and engulfment (looks like push/pull to us) and both tend to come out in over the top ways. for example (not a comment on anything you mentioned specifically), a pwBPD traits can pull us closer hardest when theyre most afraid of losing us, or having doubts themselves. its like when my ex said shed "fallen in love with me all over again". i know now shed been having more than doubts. she swung the other way, back toward me, and expressed it in an over the top way. the stuff im describing happens to all of us on some level, its just more extreme with BPD.

Maybe. Im not sure about anything anymore. And all of your answers make me think you’re suggesting he won’t ever try to come Back and talk to me. are you trying to suggest I walk away forever because it’s very unlikely anything will come of this?

for some perspective on this, people going through a breakup often go through this to varying extents, a "new me". a new hair cut. a new hobby. dropping old habits, trying out new things. its about regaining or reinventing a sense of who we are after the enmeshment and attachment of a close relationship. sometimes people can get pretty out there with it.

Yes but not a whole new personality change! Idk I think it won’t stick for long.

hows it going today? any update on the job?

Clearly not going to well. My answers seemed kind of pessimistic which is how I feel now. Things at home aren’t going okay and more than anything I’m starting to resent him so much for hurting me so bad. For doing and saying things he know would hurt me. When he did this last time I told him it wouldn’t make me hate him or unlove him like he was hoping for I just told him it hurt me. He apologized. He told me this timer hated himself because he couldn’t access his feelings of love anymore and that in general he was feeling depressed. Then again he’s said the opposite. There is no truth or logic to him. I keep thinking why did he do this to me, i this way? It hurts all over again and the wound won’t close.
I’m going to do the in person interview in the city this week.

[once removed]

are you trying to suggest I walk away forever because it’s very unlikely anything will come of this?

no. im trying to help break down "what happened" (best i can), either so that you can use it going forward if you get back together (so you can go in with a very different plan), or to help understand and use that in your detaching process should you decide to do that.

Clearly not going to well. My answers seemed kind of pessimistic which is how I feel now.

things may be all over the place for a while, anticipate this, and give it all due diligence. if you have resentment (and you understandably do), its good to acknowledge it and work through it. space has its use in that regard.

[alexvidaa]

no. im trying to help break down "what happened" (best i can), either so that you can use it going forward if you get back together (so you can go in with a very different plan), or to help understand and use that in your detaching process should you decide to do that.

I appreciate you always helping me and trying to get me to see other perspectives while we work through this. The thing is that it is very hard to not start detaching when I feel like I've been given no signs of hope from him. No contact, no unblocks, no nothing. I've told you a lot on here and based on your experience, listening to others' experience, and now mine, do you honestly think there is any hope?

things may be all over the place for a while, anticipate this, and give it all due diligence. if you have resentment (and you understandably do), its good to acknowledge it and work through it. space has its use in that regard.

I don't hate him I just hate the way that he has treated me. The way he handled things. The way he hasn't even attempted to make a repair or say sorry yet. I don't want to feel resentment. It's all over the place right now. Some days I feel "back to normal" where I'm happy and can realize that he was very emotionally and verbally abusive towards me the last couple of months and how that is NOT okay. Then some days I miss him and feel sad and depressed which can turn into hating what he did to me again. Space has helped me come to these conclusions. Space has helped me realize I really need to focus on healing myself and realizing a lot of the things he did to me was not okay while we were still in a relationship! Nonetheless how he handled things breaking up. The constant blaming, turning things around on me, etc. It was and still is hurtful, and he knows it!

[once removed]

The thing is that it is very hard to not start detaching when I feel like I've been given no signs of hope from him.

i think some level of detaching is important. we dont use the word a lot on this board because its confusing.

a lot of the time we put hope in less healthy or less realistic things, or things that we dont have control over, like outcomes, and we attach to them, and that attachment can cause or prolong suffering.

i think detaching from the ways of the old relationship is important. i think detaching from unhealthy levels of enmeshment are important. i think detaching from unrealistic expectations is important. i think the notion that we can live without a given person, even if wed prefer not to, is a healthy one.  

you can do all of that and have hope. detaching in terms of letting go of hope is a very personal choice.

No contact, no unblocks, no nothing. I've told you a lot on here and based on your experience, listening to others' experience, and now mine, do you honestly think there is any hope?

i guess it depends on what you have hope in.

if its hope that hes going to wake up, youre going to get back together, and be happily ever after, that is probably unrealistic.

if its hope that you will get back together, that is impossible to say. statistically speaking, it becomes less likely with time, but there really are no hard rules on that.

if its hope that he will contact you at all, its 100% speculation, but ive told you what i think about that. i think its pretty likely. id bet later than sooner. i could easily be wrong either way. its just human nature after a significant relationship to want to mend that bridge, but it can take a while.

Space has helped me realize I really need to focus on healing myself

i think thats where you want to put your hope and energy.

ive said this before, but i suspect if he contacted you tomorrow, and wanted to get back together, that things would blow up sooner than later. the dynamics would be the same, only you would have added hurt and resentment that you would understandably want addressed, trust wouldnt be there.

whether you want to detach or reverse a breakup, or a little of both, there comes a point when it has to be about us; about healing wounds, becoming a stronger, better version of ourselves that we either take into the next iteration of the relationship, or new ones.

[Radcliff]

Thanks for the background on your family.  That's a big help for us in understanding your situation.  A certain amount of angst in separating from parents is to be expected at your stage in life, but it certainly sounds like you've had an extra dose of it.  

Have you happened to do any reading on a topic called "attachment theory?"  The job of parents is to provide a safe home base for babies and children, yet let them explore as their independence grows.  A situation where the home base is not safe, and the child is not encouraged to individuate, is an attachment problem that can cause us big trouble in our adult relationships.  It can lead to us having difficulty forming secure attachments in safe adult relationships.

Another issue you may have going on is boundary issues in your family.  This "training" can also set us up for boundary issues in our adult romantic relationships.  We allow invasion of our boundaries, just like they were invaded as a child, and we also may attempt to overly manage our romantic partner as our parents managed us, violating our partner's boundaries.

I don't feel knowledgeable enough to give much advice on any attachment issues, though developing your own confidence in yourself as an independent and lovable human being, living on your own in the city and going for this job, seem like fantastic steps in the right direction.

For boundaries, becoming fluent with boundaries would be a huge help with your FOO, and some success there will help make your life feel emotionally safer.  When you have good boundaries, instead of someone's boundary incursion seeming like a huge threat, to which we usually react strongly with much upset for everyone, we simply invoke our pre-planned boundary defense, which can be quite subtle, and protect ourselves.

Let me give an FOO boundary example.  My BPD-traits sister was one of the most damaging boundary busters for me when I was growing up, and I believe this experience helped set me up for a boundaryless existence with my wife.  I would also violate my sister's boundaries.  When she was awful to other people in front of me, I'd get so upset and embarrassed.  I'd worry for the other people, and also worry that I'd be associated with her bad behavior, so I'd try to get her to act differently.  That never went well!  Recently, I visited my sister after getting about a year of boundary work under my belt.  When she started acting harshly to someone, I respected her boundaries by not trying to change her behavior, and I enforced one of my own by quietly removing myself from the scene so I wouldn't have to witness it.  Wow!  What a difference!  I felt so much less stress!  My relationship with my sister has improved dramatically.  I know the situation with your parents might be a little different, but I wanted to illustrate how hugely useful practicing the tools with our own FOO can be.  Can you think of ways you might practice the tools with your parents?

RC

[alexvidaa]

you can do all of that and have hope. detaching in terms of letting go of hope is a very personal choice.

I apologize for this late response! I had the job interview and things have been rocky at home, and I'm working, so responding for a few days wasn't too possible.

Is it even possible to do that? If you hold on to hope that way, is there any chance of truly moving on, if that's what happens?

i guess it depends on what you have hope in.

if its hope that hes going to wake up, youre going to get back together, and be happily ever after, that is probably unrealistic.

if its hope that you will get back together, that is impossible to say. statistically speaking, it becomes less likely with time, but there really are no hard rules on that.

if its hope that he will contact you at all, its 100% speculation, but ive told you what i think about that. i think its pretty likely. id bet later than sooner. i could easily be wrong either way. its just human nature after a significant relationship to want to mend that bridge, but it can take a while.

I don't think that he will wake up and think "I want to get back with her!" and then do something about it. Even if he has regrets now, I'm not sure his ego would let him talk to me after everything he did. If he starts having good things happen in his life, maybe he will feel "good enough" to talk to me again (he's told me over and over again he thought i was too good for him and that he didnt deserve my love because he was broken), or if he gets too bad maybe he will reach out. but other than that, i don't think he will reach out any time immediately.

Part of me still wants him to contact me immediately though. I miss him. Well, I miss the person he was.

What do you think is the "time line" to where a reconciliation becomes not possible?

ive said this before, but i suspect if he contacted you tomorrow, and wanted to get back together, that things would blow up sooner than later. the dynamics would be the same, only you would have added hurt and resentment that you would understandably want addressed, trust wouldnt be there.

whether you want to detach or reverse a breakup, or a little of both, there comes a point when it has to be about us; about healing wounds, becoming a stronger, better version of ourselves that we either take into the next iteration of the relationship, or new ones.

The cycle would continue until he gets true help and stops being emotionally abusive towards me. I can tell him I wont put up with it all I want, even if boundaries were put in place to stop that, I'm not sure it would work with his personal ups and downs and dysregulation.

I feel like I'm detaching in many ways. I'm used to not texting him anymore. I'm used to not having him around anymore. But I do miss him as a person. When I was in the city for my interview, as I was leaving I started to cry. It was the first time in a year that I had been in the city without him or without contacting him.

It still hurts he hasn't contacted me yet. People keep asking me if he's contacted me yet, and it makes me feel weird. It makes me feel sad that he hasn't. Would it have been normal for him to contact me by now? and if so, does it mean he really doesn't want anything to do with me anymore? or is it a shame/ego thing?

[once removed]

Is it even possible to do that? If you hold on to hope that way, is there any chance of truly moving on, if that's what happens?

its best to temper hope with acceptance of our circumstances/reality as they are. one doesnt necessarily beget the other. denial or deluding ourselves is seeing things unrealistically. hope is just acknowledging that we wish our circumstances were different, but working with what we have.

What do you think is the "time line" to where a reconciliation becomes not possible?

i dont think there is such a thing. in the past few days i heard about a couple that got back together after 5, and 6 months. plenty of couples may even reunite years later. it very much depends, uniquely, on the two people involved.

Would it have been normal for him to contact me by now? and if so, does it mean he really doesn't want anything to do with me anymore?

i would have been surprised if you heard from him by now. not wildly blown away, but surprised. he erected pretty high walls. it can take a while to start taking them down.

[alexvidaa]

Let me give an FOO boundary example.  My BPD-traits sister was one of the most damaging boundary busters for me when I was growing up, and I believe this experience helped set me up for a boundaryless existence with my wife.  I would also violate my sister's boundaries.  When she was awful to other people in front of me, I'd get so upset and embarrassed.  I'd worry for the other people, and also worry that I'd be associated with her bad behavior, so I'd try to get her to act differently.  That never went well!  Recently, I visited my sister after getting about a year of boundary work under my belt.  When she started acting harshly to someone, I respected her boundaries by not trying to change her behavior, and I enforced one of my own by quietly removing myself from the scene so I wouldn't have to witness it.  Wow!  What a difference!  I felt so much less stress!  My relationship with my sister has improved dramatically.  I know the situation with your parents might be a little different, but I wanted to illustrate how hugely useful practicing the tools with our own FOO can be.  Can you think of ways you might practice the tools with your parents?

RC

The thing is with my parents because of the way they view the familial hierarchy, they don't believe that I should have boundaries, and I am considered "disrespectful" when I enforce them. My father is also emotionally abusive, which is a huge issue for me right now considering I jumped from one toxic environment with my ex to back home. All of which why, as of now, I'm pushing so hard to be by myself living alone. I'm not sure if that will result in something worse for myself, but I know it will at least take away some of the mental anguish. I need to learn how to be self sufficient and give myself options because I've constantly felt trapped.

[alexvidaa]

its best to temper hope with acceptance of our circumstances/reality as they are. one doesnt necessarily beget the other. denial or deluding ourselves is seeing things unrealistically. hope is just acknowledging that we wish our circumstances were different, but working with what we have.

I'm accepting them. Slowly but surely. I'm starting to see the things that maybe I did wrong too. I think I depended on him for a lot of things and him to me as well, so I'm starting to realize that maybe we were a bit codependent on each other. I was very surprised to think about this because I am very independent and hate depending on anyone for anything, but I think over time, because he created such extreme highs and lows with emotional dysregulation, that I became almost dependent on him to regulate my emotions for how I felt about the relationship. If he created a bad and toxic time in the relationship because of his personal issues where he threatened breaking up with me, blaming me for everything, saying hateful/hurtful things, I looked to him to help me stop feeling anxious about the environment he created so he could bring himself back to reality. I have ADHD and already have issues with self emotional regulation myself, and his patterns really didn't do me any favors.
After reading a bit about everything, I noticed that his coping patterns almost mirror that of someone with narcissistic personality traits. Do you know anything about that and if BPD and NPD can overlap?

i dont think there is such a thing. in the past few days i heard about a couple that got back together after 5, and 6 months. plenty of couples may even reunite years later. it very much depends, uniquely, on the two people involved.

i would have been surprised if you heard from him by now. not wildly blown away, but surprised. he erected pretty high walls. it can take a while to start taking them down.

I really hate myself that I want him back still. I want him to come back and apologize. I want him to just come back because I miss having him as the constant person in my life. If he did, I don't even know what I'd do. I'm scared to know or see if my feelings have changed after the time. I keep having people ask me if he's talked to me yet or if they think he'll come back and to be honest it just makes me more anxious because it infers to me that he should have, or should... .but i really just don't know.

[once removed]

maybe we were a bit codependent on each other. I was very surprised to think about this because I am very independent and hate depending on anyone for anything

i think codependent tendencies are not always obvious/intuitive, because even if a person is open minded, its hard to objectively see ourselves. i felt much the same way, it didnt seem like a good fit, i wasnt necessarily at all like that in relationships with friends or family (though in ways, i was), i had a certain stereotype in mind.

have you heard of the frog in the boiling pot analogy? its an urban legend. a frog will jump out of a pot. but lets assume that its true for the sake of looking at how codependent tendencies manifest in our lives, when we face adversity. is it the pot? is it the conditions of the pot or how slowly or quickly they boil? or is it the frog and how the frog does or doesnt react to adversity? the opposite of a codependent is a well differentiated person. the problem is that someone who isnt well differentiated has difficulty seeing themselves objectively. external sources (people or our environment, the "pot" if you will), especially in times of adversity, will have a greater influence on how we respond. the silver lining when it comes to healing and detaching from the wounds of the relationship (not necessarily leaving or staying) is that in order to truly do so, we are forced into a confrontation with this stuff, and once we see it, its hard to unsee. that can be the catalyst to become more resilient "frogs" that can master, adapt to and conquer our environment and our circumstances.

Do you know anything about that and if BPD and NPD can overlap?

weve recently revamped the Learning Center. take a look! https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=90388.0

I really hate myself that I want him back still.

"should" statements are just pressures we put on ourselves and shame ourselves with. not to get all zen on you, but what if wanting him back is just a feeling that you have, not a good one or a bad one, but one you can step back and acknowledge without judgment? does it feel more manageable that way?


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