I still feel compelled to help and fix things

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

Hey everyone,

For those of you who have followed my other posts, here's an update:

I got the title to my van back from uBPDh and I got tags in MY name without a problem, despite the fact that he signed his name on the title.

The man who sold me the van was in the process of moving to another state. When the seller brought the van to the shop for uBPDh to look at it, he talked to him about renting the house the man is vacating. He wanted me to move into this house with him, even though I had already told him I am not in any way comfortable living in the same house with him again. He is not in any type of counseling or treatment program, and I have no reason to believe that his abusive behaviors will stop.

UBPDh has decided to get the house himself. He actually has given the landlord the impression that we are moving into the house as a family. For a few weeks he was making plans to get the house and then all of sudden he said he was going to "give it to me." Said God told him that he should help me get it because if he gets it, it will fall. This was last weekend. Now, I have already told him several times that the house was out of my budget. It's a beautiful house, at a really good price for our area, but still over my top-out budget by a hundred dollars a month. Anyway, last weekend he said that God (he loves to tell me what "God" says to him) had led him to purchase a lottery ticket which netted him enough money to pay the deposit on the house, because his paycheck alone is not enough to pay the rent on the hotel room he lives in and still pay to get in this house.

This is when he said God told him he should give the house to me. After I said I couldn't afford it. I also did not explain my other reasons for not being comfortable with the house in addition to it being over a hundred dollars more in rent than I can afford to pay- these reasons include the fact that I a) don't really want him to know where I live and b) don't want him to know who my landlord is, much less have his number. History has shown, through the car title incident, that I would be smart to keep him as far removed from important personal matters as possible.

So anyway, he insisted I take the envelope with the application for the house. He was irritated that I said I didn't want it. Blah, blah, this would be exactly what you need to get the kids back, yada yada. I explained to him that right now I was focusing on getting something cheaper that might not be as large as this house, since I have been living with a roommate and splitting the bills with her. I won't be getting custody back anytime soon anyway, the process is a long one and the first step would be overnight visits on the weekends and then possibly move to lengthier visits later. I wouldn't have child care for all six kids right now even if they did come back. That's one of the reasons I am in school to get a degree, to get a better job. He got irritated at this- said he did not understand because I've been pushing to get the kids back for five years and now I have the chance to get a big, nice house and get them back and I won't take it. He blatantly ignores the fact that custody would have been possible and more feasible when we were together as opposed to me trying to get them back alone, and that he was the main obstacle to us getting back custody all these years- his addictions, erratic and abusive behavior, and financial irresponsibility made that impossible.

So I took the envelope to shut him up. As predicted, the next day he called and said I had "gotten his stuff" and asked did I have the envelope. I had opened it, read it and set it on the dresser. He claims he put money in the envelope for the deposit, and I know that I know that I know that I would definitely have seen it in there. But it wasn't, and now it's gone, and he has decided that he wants the house again since I didn't jump at the chance to accept his "help" of getting this house, and now he has spent his rent money on the deposit since he lost the other money (the money he won on the lottery ticket "God" told him to buy- right after "God" told him to go to the local bar and buy 3 or 4 beers- I swear I can't make this stuff up) and now he is facing being homeless and he wants my help. He said he did place expectations on me to help him financially with the rent. But now he isn't asking for money (because he found out I don't have any- I have basically depleted my savings between helping him for the three months he's been out of jail, also buying a van and having two kids' birthdays last month) so he is asking for my time. Wants me to come pick him up after work today. He doesn't have a plan. He could have gotten into a halfway house over a month ago, but he expected them to chase after him with the application and interview process, and if the man called when it wasn't convenient for uBPDh then he didn't give him a solid answer for doing the interview. Of course, according to uBPDh, the man gave him "the runaround" when I actually think he just probably didn't see enough initiative in uBPDh to do it. If it was important enough to keep him off the street and allow him to save money to get the house, you would think he would have pursued it and called this man every day. But he didn't, and is now blaming and making excuses for why he couldn't get into the halfway house. And now he is facing being homeless, with no plan, and calling me for help. And I don't know what kind of help I can possibly even give. I could spend the last bit of money I have to keep him in the room one more week, and next week he will be in the same spot because he has only paid the deposit, not the first month's rent, and it will take his next two whole paychecks to do that.

And I resent being pulled into this latest crisis, and I am also frustrated with myself because I think that I have allowed the door to remain open for this kind of thing. I don't know what to do and I don't like all the feelings I am having, because it is causing anxiety and guilt which usually compel me to do something to fix the situation so I don't have to experience the feelings.

I also am really angry because I know I am susceptible to emotional manipulation, even when I clearly recognize it and I am being extremely critical of myself right now, which of course does not solve anything.

So... .just needed to get all this out. How have some of you handled emotional manipulation and guilt-tripping and being placed in the center of the BPD's latest crisis? Does it make it more difficult if you can see where the crisis could have been prevented by the BPD, but also there is a real struggle involved? For instance, I have been in the same situation before- it's not easy to live in a hotel and also save money for a place to live. I think that makes the urge to help stronger for me.

Thoughts anyone?

Blessings and peace,

Redeemed

[I Am Redeemed]

Hey everyone,

For those of you who have followed my other posts, here's an update:

I got the title to my van back from uBPDh and I got tags in MY name without a problem, despite the fact that he signed his name on the title.

The man who sold me the van was in the process of moving to another state. When the seller brought the van to the shop for uBPDh to look at it, he talked to him about renting the house the man is vacating. He wanted me to move into this house with him, even though I had already told him I am not in any way comfortable living in the same house with him again. He is not in any type of counseling or treatment program, and I have no reason to believe that his abusive behaviors will stop.

UBPDh has decided to get the house himself. He actually has given the landlord the impression that we are moving into the house as a family. For a few weeks he was making plans to get the house and then all of sudden he said he was going to "give it to me." Said God told him that he should help me get it because if he gets it, it will fall. This was last weekend. Now, I have already told him several times that the house was out of my budget. It's a beautiful house, at a really good price for our area, but still over my top-out budget by a hundred dollars a month. Anyway, last weekend he said that God (he loves to tell me what "God" says to him) had led him to purchase a lottery ticket which netted him enough money to pay the deposit on the house, because his paycheck alone is not enough to pay the rent on the hotel room he lives in and still pay to get in this house.

This is when he said God told him he should give the house to me. After I said I couldn't afford it. I also did not explain my other reasons for not being comfortable with the house in addition to it being over a hundred dollars more in rent than I can afford to pay- these reasons include the fact that I a) don't really want him to know where I live and b) don't want him to know who my landlord is, much less have his number. History has shown, through the car title incident, that I would be smart to keep him as far removed from important personal matters as possible.

So anyway, he insisted I take the envelope with the application for the house. He was irritated that I said I didn't want it. Blah, blah, this would be exactly what you need to get the kids back, yada yada. I explained to him that right now I was focusing on getting something cheaper that might not be as large as this house, since I have been living with a roommate and splitting the bills with her. I won't be getting custody back anytime soon anyway, the process is a long one and the first step would be overnight visits on the weekends and then possibly move to lengthier visits later. I wouldn't have child care for all six kids right now even if they did come back. That's one of the reasons I am in school to get a degree, to get a better job. He got irritated at this- said he did not understand because I've been pushing to get the kids back for five years and now I have the chance to get a big, nice house and get them back and I won't take it. He blatantly ignores the fact that custody would have been possible and more feasible when we were together as opposed to me trying to get them back alone, and that he was the main obstacle to us getting back custody all these years- his addictions, erratic and abusive behavior, and financial irresponsibility made that impossible.

So I took the envelope to shut him up. As predicted, the next day he called and said I had "gotten his stuff" and asked did I have the envelope. I had opened it, read it and set it on the dresser. He claims he put money in the envelope for the deposit, and I know that I know that I know that I would definitely have seen it in there. But it wasn't, and now it's gone, and he has decided that he wants the house again since I didn't jump at the chance to accept his "help" of getting this house, and now he has spent his rent money on the deposit since he lost the other money (the money he won on the lottery ticket "God" told him to buy- right after "God" told him to go to the local bar and buy 3 or 4 beers- I swear I can't make this stuff up) and now he is facing being homeless and he wants my help. He said he did place expectations on me to help him financially with the rent. But now he isn't asking for money (because he found out I don't have any- I have basically depleted my savings between helping him for the three months he's been out of jail, also buying a van and having two kids' birthdays last month) so he is asking for my time. Wants me to come pick him up after work today. He doesn't have a plan. He could have gotten into a halfway house over a month ago, but he expected them to chase after him with the application and interview process, and if the man called when it wasn't convenient for uBPDh then he didn't give him a solid answer for doing the interview. Of course, according to uBPDh, the man gave him "the runaround" when I actually think he just probably didn't see enough initiative in uBPDh to do it. If it was important enough to keep him off the street and allow him to save money to get the house, you would think he would have pursued it and called this man every day. But he didn't, and is now blaming and making excuses for why he couldn't get into the halfway house. And now he is facing being homeless, with no plan, and calling me for help. And I don't know what kind of help I can possibly even give. I could spend the last bit of money I have to keep him in the room one more week, and next week he will be in the same spot because he has only paid the deposit, not the first month's rent, and it will take his next two whole paychecks to do that.

And I resent being pulled into this latest crisis, and I am also frustrated with myself because I think that I have allowed the door to remain open for this kind of thing. I don't know what to do and I don't like all the feelings I am having, because it is causing anxiety and guilt which usually compel me to do something to fix the situation so I don't have to experience the feelings.

I also am really angry because I know I am susceptible to emotional manipulation, even when I clearly recognize it and I am being extremely critical of myself right now, which of course does not solve anything.

So... .just needed to get all this out. How have some of you handled emotional manipulation and guilt-tripping and being placed in the center of the BPD's latest crisis? Does it make it more difficult if you can see where the crisis could have been prevented by the BPD, but also there is a real struggle involved? For instance, I have been in the same situation before- it's not easy to live in a hotel and also save money for a place to live. I think that makes the urge to help stronger for me.

Thoughts anyone?

Blessings and peace,

Redeemed

[Cat Familiar]

You're a caring person and you want to save him from unpleasant circumstances. However, by rescuing him repeatedly, you are preventing him from learning from the result of natural consequences. As the AA literature references, sometimes people have to hit rock bottom before they make changes.

You'd think that his stint in prison might have been that "rock bottom" but apparently it wasn't. I'm wondering what your "rock bottom" is regarding his manipulative behavior and your rescuing.

I'm so glad you got the van registration squared away. You are making profound steps toward making your future better for you and your children.    You see the repeating pattern with him as it manifests in slightly different ways over and over. You care about him and don't want him to make choices that put him in harms way. But he is not your child; he is an adult, and he hasn't been looking out for the interest of you and your children. He must make the decision at some point to either sink or swim--you cannot always be handing him a life preserver.

Now as far as the self recrimination, I could tell you not to do that, because as you've said, it doesn't help. I, too, hitched myself to an unreliable husband and despite my best efforts, he never became responsible. I haven't seen him in years, yet I still get calls from creditors trying to track him down for unpaid bills--the Internet is forever and unfortunately my name is still linked to his.

I chalk it up to having made an unfortunate choice as a young person, or more accurately, going along with someone else's program and being far too passive. But I made a choice to separate myself from his chaos, and my only regret was that I hadn't done that years earlier.

Whatever path you choose, you probably realize that you must wall off your own security somewhat from his influences. How you do that remains to be discovered, but you've realized that he's very manipulative and doesn't easily take "no" for an answer.

[formflier]

Babyducks posted this in another thread.  Totally seems relevant to your situation.

Somehow you have to stop/limit/focus your listening.

The pattern is that he "wears you down".  He does this because it works.  He does this because he is allowed to.

 

This seems really hard... .I hope this list gives you some ideas.

FF

For that reason I would suggest practicing phrases that stop conversations.   practice with a friend or a therapist... .some one you trust... .

• I'm not able to have this conversation today.   Let's talk about it next week.

• I would like to get back to you on that.

• this isn't really anything I want to discuss
• I think I have spent all the energy I can right now.

• I believe it is time to stop this conversation.

• We've spent enough time on this issue, let's table it for now

I'd suggest that once you feel confident that you can stop a conversation that is running away with you... .you can feel more confident getting your message across.

what do you think?

'ducks

[I Am Redeemed]

Those seem like good suggestions to start with. I have always had a problem with being assertive. Until I get so frustrated that I can't take it and then I can have aggressive verbal explosions, which of course make me seem unstable.

I just get tired of being the one who picks up the pieces all the time. And he has others who have offered help, such as the church members who told him to ask if he needs food, etc. But he doesn't want to bother them... .with me, he will ask, ask, and ask again... .and he inevitably manifests a crisis of such proportion (such as imminent homelessness) that it would seem like a selfish or callous thing to ignore it... .which is how he would portray it to everyone who would listen... .also he expects me to "give him ideas" of what to do when he finds himself in a self made crisis.
He is really manipulative, pretending to not obviously play the victim when that is actually exactly what he is doing. His self denial is super entrenched.
Last week he said that he didn't want to annoy me or irritate me, and that if I need to limit contact to one call a day he will respect that. The following day he was asking for help with food for lunch. The next day he was going to be kicked out of the hotel because he paid the landlord money for the house he is trying to get. A house which he can't really afford. I have no doubt that he will probably get evicted from it if he ever does move in.
And no doubt that he will be asking me for help. Except that I can't anymore. I have exhausted all the financial resources I can afford, and I can't be his safety net anymore.
I realize when I am being manipulated, but I need practice learning to stop letting it work.

Thanks everyone,

Redeemed

[formflier]

My guess is there is not "one thing" that will help you move away from this type of rescuing.

Once a day is great.  Text first, then call.

I think you should revisit your technology setup to "help" that.

Boundaries are important.   Visualize that he is dumping all the pieces at your door and you will leave the door shut.  What he does with the pieces is his business.

My big picture view of you and your progress is that you truly understand you can't keep doing it, but since you have limited experience "being firm"... .you are unsure about steps to take.

What are some small steps you can take, to start building momentum?

How can we help in that?

How is school going?

FF

[I Am Redeemed]

You're a caring person and you want to save him from unpleasant circumstances. However, by rescuing him repeatedly, you are preventing him from learning from the result of natural consequences. As the AA literature references, sometimes people have to hit rock bottom before they make changes.

You'd think that his stint in prison might have been that "rock bottom" but apparently it wasn't.

Whatever path you choose, you probably realize that you must wall off your own security somewhat from his influences. How you do that remains to be discovered, but you've realized that he's very manipulative and doesn't easily take "no" for an answer.

Cat

UBPDh does not seem to learn from his mistakes. Not only did he spend almost six years in prison twenty years ago (he violated the probation he was on due to an aggravated assault on his ex-wife, which he claims she greatly exaggerated) he has been arrested multiple times for domestic violence assaults on an ex-gf, his second ex-wife, and three times for me. This has resulted in losing two of his sons permanently (one is eighteen now, the other was adopted, he would be about ten now).

I think the main reason he doesn't learn is because he always draws the bottom line for blame at someone else's feet. This is in everything. He believes that whatever wrong he may have done was in some way caused by some other person or outside force acting out of his control. He also completes some outrageous mental gymnastics to cast himself in the victim role. It's as natural for him to do this as breathing, and he does it while outwardly stating the whole time that "I'm not the victim here, I'm not saying I'm a victim... .BUT... ."

My guess is there is not "one thing" that will help you move away from this type of rescuing.

Once a day is great.  Text first, then call.

I think you should revisit your technology setup to "help" that.

Boundaries are important.   Visualize that he is dumping all the pieces at your door and you will leave the door shut.  What he does with the pieces is his business.

My big picture view of you and your progress is that you truly understand you can't keep doing it, but since you have limited experience "being firm"... .you are unsure about steps to take.

What are some small steps you can take, to start building momentum?

How can we help in that?

How is school going?

FF

FF,

I got an "A" in accounting   and have started my next class on Leadership Practices and Principles.

I find it kind of ironic that I am taking classes for a degree in leadership and yet I am struggling to control my own life.

I don't even know how to answer your questions. I can talk all day about what is wrong with uBPDh but it doesn't change anything... .it doesn't change the fact that whether I like it or not, I am the one who is going to have to make changes to keep my sanity. I am basically falling back into familiar habits and patterns because I am exhausted, depressed, and worn out, and it is HARD to change because it requires effort. My energy level physically and mentally is so low that I am having trouble putting the effort forth. I also am super irritable and reactive. My response to his attempts to draw me back in to close relationship is to feel a huge wave of anxiety and then get angry about it. There is no structure to this separation and I am constantly questioning myself and my decisions. It's not like there is a counselor or other mediator that we are both talking to who is giving us some guidance. There is only this limbo state where i am trying to put the pieces back together after so many years of physical, verbal and emotional abuse, and he is trying to convince me to "stop being mad at him". He is focused on THAT as being the problem- not his abusive behavior. He SAYS that of course his behavior was wrong, and he needs to change, but when he made that statement: "the bottom line is that you're mad at me and I'm in 'time out' right now"- all kinds of emotions just flew all over me. I realized that he is on a campaign, whether he is totally aware of it or not, to get me to "stop being mad at him" because he sees that as the barrier to our relationship.

And his attempts to do that just make me more angry and irritated. And in this angry, irritated, anxious and depressed state, I don't know how to answer questions about how to go about "being firm" because I feel like it's a great big tangled mess that I have to unravel to get to the answer to that question and I feel overwhelmed before I even start. Kind of like when the Christmas lights didn't get put away properly last year, and now you want to decorate the tree but the strands are all in a huge tangle and you don't know which one to start with because they are all knotted up together. Pull out one, it gets stuck. Try another one, that one is stuck too. It takes patience and tedious picking and pulling until you get one free, and the thought surfaces that maybe you should just throw out the entire mess of lights and go buy some more... .except that's what happened last year, and here you are trying to detangle them again.

I don't know if that analogy made any sense. But one "strand" I seem to have identified is that I seem to feel like I have to have a reason to suddenly start enforcing more boundaries than I have been. I don't seem to believe that I have to right to change the status quo if it isn't working for me. I am not sure where that belief comes from, but I am sure it is important and probably a root cause of a lot of my issues.

Maybe it comes from scenarios like this: I left work at 10 pm the other night. Went to pick up s2, got home by 10:35. During that time I received no less than fifteen phone calls and at least two messages on messenger. I heard the phone ringing repeatedly all the way home. And I refuse to answer the phone when I am driving. Anyway, by the time I got home I was really irritated about the incessant phone calls. This is something I have communicated countless times to him- it is super annoying and frustrating when he calls back to back to back until I answer. This same scenario has been played out over and over- it always irritates me, and then I tell him how much it irritates me, and then he says he "isn't trying to annoy me, he just ------- (fill in the blank excuse for repeated calling)". And then his response to my irritation and frustration at being bombarded with phone calls is to say "what happened? why are you so frustrated?" As if this hasn't happened ever before in the history of our lives, and as if his repeated ringing of my phone while I am doing other things like driving, picking up my son, and trying to make it home safely late at night could not possibly be the source of my irritation and anger- it MUST be something else, and he will ask the same question over and over which further agitates me.

I think this has somehow fostered or reinforced my belief that something major has to happen (as in immediate danger or threats of danger) for me to set limits. Because otherwise I am just overreacting to non-threatening, innocuous behavior- "I mean you no harm" is a recurrent statement of his these days. As if saying that out loud somehow absolves him of everything he does- emotional manipulation? No, that isn't my intention, I mean you no harm.

He is trying to worm his way back in to my entire daily life, and I both resent and fear that. And I fear my response to it, because I have been under pressure for so long that I don't know how to start doing anything different, and I don't know where to start. I am sick of having to focus on this. I have lots of other things that require my time and energy.

Blessings and peace,

Redeemed

[formflier]

Congrats on the A in accounting!      

His being able to contact you and make YOUR phone ring, whenever and wherever he wants to has been an issue that seems STUCK for a long time.

Do you believe he will change his behavior?

Anyone else here think he will change his behavior?

IAR are you ready to solve the issue of him contacting you?

FF

[Lady Itone]

So... .just needed to get all this out. How have some of you handled emotional manipulation and guilt-tripping and being placed in the center of the BPD's latest crisis?

I got out, eventually, with lots of firm "No's."

No, I will not take that envelope.
No, we are never moving in together again.
No, that's a "you" problem. It's got nothing to do with me.
I said no. It's a full sentence.
No further reason need be given, and if he continues to badger and hector, hang up/walk/away/end the contact

Every time he wears you down and it works, he's being taught that that's how he can get his way.

Worth a try, don't you think?

[formflier]

Every time he wears you down and it works, he's being taught that that's how he can get his way.
 

I get it that this is like not your intention IAR.  But I assure you this is the truth of the matter.

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=63989.0

FF

[Cat Familiar]

Obviously he's not learning that domestic assault is likely to land him in prison and he somehow conflates his behavior with other people's issues and figures out a way to feel blameless, hence not accountable.

And you got an "A" in accounting! 

You are seeing many longstanding patterns in his behavior and you realize that your awareness of his patterns changes nothing. But how does this change your feelings about him?

You find yourself exhausted, depressed and falling into your own familiar patterns of feeling anxious, irritable and overwhelmed. You know he keeps pressuring you and thinks that the problem consists of you being angry instead of how he behaves and his lack of accountability, remorse and desire to change.   

If you're waiting for something "big" to happen before you set limits, how much bigger does it have to be than what you've already experienced? And why isn't that enough for you to feel you have a right to honor your own feelings?

Like Lady Itone's excellent post states, NO is a complete sentence. And what about turning off your phone?

[I Am Redeemed]

Congrats on the A in accounting!      

His being able to contact you and make YOUR phone ring, whenever and wherever he wants to has been an issue that seems STUCK for a long time.

Do you believe he will change his behavior?

Anyone else here think he will change his behavior?

IAR are you ready to solve the issue of him contacting you?

FF

No, I don't believe he will change his behavior. I saw today he had sent me a message on messenger (his phone is off, but he continues to use messenger and his work phone or the hotel phone to contact me) that said he would "be my best friend" if I would bring him an energy drink and a dollar burger. Once again, he is asking me for something. On my only day off. After I just basically saved him from being homeless AGAIN and I am just sick of it. And I decided I wasn't doing it today. I don't want to, and I needed to go to the store and get pants for s2 because colder temps are here, and so I did that. And then we came home and took a nap, because I never get much rest and I need it. I kept my phone on silent and did not answer the messages.

31 missed calls. I looked at my phone when I woke up to see what time it was, and I had 31 missed calls, and he is continuing to call repeatedly right now. He also sent a picture of me and my son taken in the hospital right after he was born, with a message that said "It's hard to believe we went from this to not even answering the phone."

No it's not. It's hard for me to believe that just a few days before that picture was taken, when I was still pregnant with our now s2, he had me down on the floor of the bedroom strangling me because I had disclosed to someone the reason our children were taken from our custody.

I get it that this is like not your intention IAR.  But I assure you this is the truth of the matter.

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=63989.0

FF

I realize that it is, and that it is me who will have to change my behavior if I want to find some peace.

I read the article, and I think it describes me perfectly. Also gives me an answer for the eternal questions "Why did you not leave sooner? Why do you still try to help this man? Why have you not completely cut all contact with him?"

I got out, eventually, with lots of firm "No's."

No, I will not take that envelope.
No, we are never moving in together again.
No, that's a "you" problem. It's got nothing to do with me.
I said no. It's a full sentence.
No further reason need be given, and if he continues to badger and hector, hang up/walk/away/end the contact

Every time he wears you down and it works, he's being taught that that's how he can get his way.

Worth a try, don't you think?

I have tried, and then I have swung back the other way and gave up trying, because it drains me to repeat "no, no no" all the time... .I really think that any chances he gets to contact me, even the smallest amount, will be utilized to wear me down until I resume the relationship we had... .that's his goal. He is not willing to go through a separation period where he leaves me (mostly) alone to heal while he goes through some type of treatment to learn how to not abuse people. He simply wants me to see his efforts, deem that enough, and resume the relationship where we left off (even if he can't convince me to move back in right now) complete with me giving and receiving physical affection, spending time with him, catering to his needs, staying in contact all day with him, and he doesn't see why I don't want this.

He keeps throwing the "bait" out there about me seeing someone else (like I have the desire to do that, much less the time for it) in statements such as "Well, I'm going to bed now so you can stay up talking on the phone to your boyfriend... ." and if I don't respond to that he will say it again, and then if I still don't respond he will tell me that he said it just to get an answer about that from me. Which angers me because for one thing, I have already answered that question, and for another, it makes me angry that he would think that I am trying to juggle work, school, a two year old, an emotional vampire of a husband, and then add another man into that mix. It proves to me that he does not understand the depth of the devastation he has caused me. I never want to be in another intimate relationship ever again. I want to be left alone.

Obviously he's not learning that domestic assault is likely to land him in prison and he somehow conflates his behavior with other people's issues and figures out a way to feel blameless, hence not accountable.

And you got an "A" in accounting! 

You are seeing many longstanding patterns in his behavior and you realize that your awareness of his patterns changes nothing. But how does this change your feelings about him?

You find yourself exhausted, depressed and falling into your own familiar patterns of feeling anxious, irritable and overwhelmed. You know he keeps pressuring you and thinks that the problem consists of you being angry instead of how he behaves and his lack of accountability, remorse and desire to change.   

If you're waiting for something "big" to happen before you set limits, how much bigger does it have to be than what you've already experienced? And why isn't that enough for you to feel you have a right to honor your own feelings?

Like Lady Itone's excellent post states, NO is a complete sentence. And what about turning off your phone?

How much bigger does it have to be?

It doesn't make much sense, does it. I know it doesn't. Like today, I haven't answered the calls or messages. First I didn't because I just did not feel like being pressured to do something for him today. Then I didn't answer because I decided it would reinforce the badgering calls. Now I am avoiding answering because at this point it will only be a conversation demanding that I give a reason for treating him so badly as to ignore his calls.

I also read an article on emotional vampires. He is absolutely one of those, and i can tell that more than the most minimal contact with him has drained me once again. It's scary. And I am constantly second guessing myself about whether I am being fair to him about suddenly minimizing contact when to him it looks as if everything has been going well. When in reality, I am stressed to the max about talking to him and spending time with him because I don't feel strong enough or prepared enough to defend myself against all the manipulation tactics and I am terrified of getting sucked back in.

I am getting more and more depressed and my tendency is to isolate and avoid more and more uncomfortable situations. I am trying not to complain and feel powerless when I know that I have more control than I think, and I don't want to frustrate anyone by telling them that I still don't know how to stand up for myself. I make myself roll my own eyes when I think things like "but it might hurt his feelings if you limit contact to one call a day- what reason to you have to do that when he hasn't done anything to you... .lately... ."

That "lately" is the key word. It's the one that gets me hung up, and stuck, and the one that kept me feeling like I couldn't leave the abusive situation, and the one that makes me think I can't stand up for my rights and feelings.

I don't know how my own thinking got so disordered.

He told his mother I am a narcissist. He also told me that, because he said he looked up the personality disorders since I think he has one (and so did the psychological evaluator when he did his assessment in jail) and he found out what is wrong with me- I have Narcissistic Personality Disorder.

I believe I mentioned in another post somewhere that he did this exact same thing last year, "diagnosing" me with NPD. 

He wants to see s2 tonight, I know, because he asked yesterday. And I just don't want to go over there. I swore that I would not do it again, after he threatened me and got in my face... .why did I not stick to that decision?

It makes me question my own sanity and ability to make safe decisions, and it's hard when you don't trust your own self.

Redeemed

[formflier]

So... .are you interested in trying a technology change to make it easier to block him... or deal with him when YOU choose... not when he chooses.

This will likely entail a phone number for "just him" or a limited number of  people. 

And another phone number for regular people you trust to not give it to him.

FF

[Cat Familiar]

If I were in your shoes, I'd embrace the NPD diagnosis.

"Yep I'm a narcissist and I'm only gonna talk with you once a day, if that, maybe once a week because you really pester me and don't seem to understand the meaning of NO."

When I've been accused of being self centered in recent times, I fully agree and there's a tremendous freedom in that.

In the past, I was manipulated by both my mother and my ex husband who called me "selfish" and I was horrified. I tried to make amends for being perceived as such a terrible person. If only I'd known then what I know now and said, "Yes, you're right. I'm selfish. And I don't like how you're treating me." If I could have done that at the time, my life would have been far better.

As it was, they were just projecting their selfishness upon me and I took it on. 

[I Am Redeemed]

FF,
I have looked at the Google voice thing,

I am wondering if he might be able to figure it out and hack into it somehow, which he has been known to do.

Someone at work said that it was possible and it would potentially give him more information to obtain should he be able to access it.

Thoughts on that? I don't know a lot about technology and I don't know how complicated it would be.

Redeemed

[I Am Redeemed]

Cat,

Some days I don't care if I am perceived as selfish, and some days it bothers me greatly. My emotions are still all over the place. I feel like I have been sending mixed signals by giving in to his requests for help, for spending time with me and s2, and it has frustrated and stressed me out. I need to put more space in this situation, but I feel like I don't have a legitimate reason... .other than it would be better for me mentally and emotionally... .why does that not seem good enough to me, I don't know.

I guess I have been conditioned to feel guilty about anything that remotely puts my needs more than an inch off the back burner.

Redeemed

[formflier]

We might want a separate thread just for technology.  Not just for you, but others may come along with same problem.

Sadly... it's not an uncommon problem.

Google voice is as secure as your gmail.

https://www.dinopass.com/

Ok... .was just talking about this with kids... so...

You DO need to understand what makes a complicated and secure password, yet one he (or anyone) would never guess

Iw@nt1nFFh@rem  

Do you see it  I want in FF harem

(if you didn't know... .my wife thinks I have about 30 babes I regularly ... you know... .and I have recent openings... .)

Again... .google voice is as secure as your gmail and your phone.

So... .code to get on phone.  Password to get in gmail.

Pretty tough to hack, unless you can guess them.

FF

[I Am Redeemed]

Ok. I can come up with a decent password. I may have to write it down and keep it at home to remember it.

Interesting, uBPDh thinks that I am, you know, with a bunch of drug dealers... .

And the missed call count today is up to over seventy.

Crazy making.

Redeemed

[Cat Familiar]

70 calls in a day! Who does that? And how can he even justify thinking that is an appropriate thing to do to you? More abuse. He has no apparent self awareness of how his behavior affects you nor does he care.

So who is the narcissist?

[formflier]

practice making ones you can remember. 

1@mr3d33m3d

I am redeemed

see it?  Should have added uppercase in there

FF

[empath]

I think it was last weekend, my h was calling and not leaving messages. I usually was driving at the time he called, so I didn't return his calls. A couple of days into this, he left a message saying that I "was avoiding him and not returning his calls and wanted to know if I was offended by something that he did... .". I was going to actually return his call shortly after he left the message, but I decided that I would wait another day to contact him.


In my state, excessive unwanted phone calls is considered stalking and could be grounds for a protection order.

[I Am Redeemed]

FF,

That's good, I could come up with a password like that. I'm pretty sure he hasn't figured out this website or my user name... .I keep my phone locked with a pattern and I keep it near me at all times if we are together. i have ignored his "hints" (which were not really subtle at all) about how he wants to go through my phone... .he is convinced I am seeing someone... .which is really offensive and triggering for me because I have listened to him make accusations of this sort for years without cause and it was the catalyst for a lot of the abuse I experienced.

Cat,

Yes. Over seventy calls. Not counting the times he called on messenger, and not counting however many times he has called since I put the phone under the bed two hours ago and haven't looked at it since, because even though I can't hear it i don't want to see it. It's been a nice, quiet night with the phone out of sight, out of mind.
He wouldn't call this many times if I had answered. But, the more he persisted in calling when he didn't get an answer earlier, the more I just decided that to answer now would be reinforcing the ''wear-down'' technique. Am I correct in assuming that? Like, I might have answered if he had called only five or six times intermittently, or stopped calling and waited until later tonight before trying again. But he has literally been relentlessly trying to contact me all day, and so I just decided that I will not accept any contact when he is so obviously disordered. He believes that he has the right to talk to me, and he will not stop until he gets an answer, and he will no doubt play the victim when he does talk to me.

Empath,

That is exactly what he does. If he calls a few times and I don't answer, he starts thinking I am mad at him for some reason, and then he really gets relentless because he wants me to tell him what is wrong and why I am refusing to answer. And the more relentless the calls become, the more I absolutely do not want to answer.

And I do have a protective order, and I am definitely saving these call logs because no one in their right mind would believe they have the right to call someone over seventy times a day, whether they get an answer or not. As it was explained to me, the protective order is supposed to prevent him from initiating unwanted contact with me. He thinks that because I have allowed him to call and because I have brought my son over to see him that the protective order is "null and void" and cannot be enforced. He is incorrect. The restrictions are on him, not me. I can allow contact, and i can refuse it, but he cannot try to force unwanted contact.

I am keeping a journal of all this, in the event we end up in court again. I predict we will, especially with regards to s2.

Redeemed

[AskingWhy]

FF,

That's good, I could come up with a password like that. I'm pretty sure he hasn't figured out this website or my user name... .I keep my phone locked with a pattern and I keep it near me at all times if we are together. i have ignored his "hints" (which were not really subtle at all) about how he wants to go through my phone... .he is convinced I am seeing someone... .which is really offensive and triggering for me because I have listened to him make accusations of this sort for years without cause and it was the catalyst for a lot of the abuse I experienced.

Cat,

Yes. Over seventy calls. Not counting the times he called on messenger, and not counting however many times he has called since I put the phone under the bed two hours ago and haven't looked at it since, because even though I can't hear it i don't want to see it. It's been a nice, quiet night with the phone out of sight, out of mind.
He wouldn't call this many times if I had answered. But, the more he persisted in calling when he didn't get an answer earlier, the more I just decided that to answer now would be reinforcing the ''wear-down'' technique. Am I correct in assuming that? Like, I might have answered if he had called only five or six times intermittently, or stopped calling and waited until later tonight before trying again. But he has literally been relentlessly trying to contact me all day, and so I just decided that I will not accept any contact when he is so obviously disordered. He believes that he has the right to talk to me, and he will not stop until he gets an answer, and he will no doubt play the victim when he does talk to me.

Empath,

That is exactly what he does. If he calls a few times and I don't answer, he starts thinking I am mad at him for some reason, and then he really gets relentless because he wants me to tell him what is wrong and why I am refusing to answer. And the more relentless the calls become, the more I absolutely do not want to answer.

And I do have a protective order, and I am definitely saving these call logs because no one in their right mind would believe they have the right to call someone over seventy times a day, whether they get an answer or not. As it was explained to me, the protective order is supposed to prevent him from initiating unwanted contact with me. He thinks that because I have allowed him to call and because I have brought my son over to see him that the protective order is "null and void" and cannot be enforced. He is incorrect. The restrictions are on him, not me. I can allow contact, and i can refuse it, but he cannot try to force unwanted contact.

I am keeping a journal of all this, in the event we end up in court again. I predict we will, especially with regards to s2.

Redeemed

I am so proud of you, Redeemed, in your facing your H head-on and being ready for any curveballs that come for a RS with pwBPD. 

Keep track of the calls and any other things that show erratic behavior.  And I do hope you are reading Bill Eddy's, "Splitting" as a resource.   

[Harley Quinn]

Redeemed, I've had some ill health for a while there and lost track of you.  I'm so sorry.  

It looks like things may have been slipping back to old habits but I'm happy to see you taking a stand again.  Last time I read you were shaken up over your H attacking you outside your van and breaking your bag.  You had arranged to go see the lady at the DV service to talk about further help and guidance they could offer you.  What happened about that?  It's possible they may be able to get you onto one of the victim courses where they will help you to unravel your thoughts and work through understanding how to protect yourself from what you are experiencing right now and repeats of what you've had in the past.

I hate to be the bringer of bad news, but I did a lot of research on Perpetrator programmes when I was still with my ex.  At the time I was desperately hopeful that him attending one of these would be the thing to save our relationship.  I'm afraid to say that at my last read (a couple of years ago) there was less than a 40% chance of moderate to significant improvement and there are no actual concrete figures to evidence a complete lasting change in the violent behaviour.  Many attendees behave well during the course and then go right back to abusing afterwards.  Some reduce the severity of the abuse but it doesn't ever outright stop.  I knew our chances were slim.  I just hope you're not hanging on this type of potential reform as the reason to continue as you are.  It's important to also consider the strong possibility that he will never change the behaviour.  For some abusers the learned behaviour is just too deeply embedded.  Does that change anything for you?

On a separate note, going back to an earlier post of yours in this thread I have a question.

He blatantly ignores the fact that custody would have been possible and more feasible when we were together as opposed to me trying to get them back alone

I'm not sure I understand why that would be the case?  Is this something that was said to you by an authority or was that your view?  I'm wondering if you are talking about from a financial standpoint?  Living arrangements?  From a safety perspective the children would be far better off with you alone, that's clear.

I want you to know that I fully empathise with your current feelings and likely physical state.  Your H sounds exactly like my ex in his behaviour - all of it - and I know how exhausting that is.  I too was in another world and unable to think straight.  Hundreds of calls and texts.  It was incessant.  I was an anxious wreck, barely slept if at all and hardly ever ate anything.  I felt like I was going insane.  

You need support from someone who deals with this stuff and can guide you.  Trust me, it makes a world of difference.  It was only after getting that support that I began to emerge from the FOG.  You are worthy Redeemed.  Get help.  Online/locally/nationally/wherever, but you need help right now.    

There is no structure to this separation

How separated are you feeling from him right now?  That's a rhetorical question because I believe I know.  If it's anything like I felt it was as if he was constantly all around me and there was no escape, no peace.  It's as if he was within the very air I breathed and I was choking.  

Create the structure Redeemed.  Now.  Turn your phone on silent or switch it off then stand in front of the mirror and practice saying NO with conviction.  Say it to yourself until you feel the strength build inside of you and then consider how you will separate yourself in any and all of the ways you feel you need to do so that you can get your head in order and work things through.  Practice saying 'from now on, your problems are your own.  I will not be bailing you out again.'  Practice saying 'I wish to not hear from you for a week / two weeks and will not be taking any calls' (whatever you think you need) and see how that feels.  Basically practice saying your truth and honouring yourself.

What is the plan for visitation?  What professional help can you get with organising that?  Are there contact centres for domestic abusers to spend time with their children?  Considering he lost 2 kids due to these reasons, there must be some agency who can assist with keeping you and your son safe whilst allowing him contact.  Again, your DV advocate ought to be able to help with that.  They will know all the processes.  These questions are not for you to answer, but to absorb.  They are things you need support on.  Let's ensure you get that support.

Take care of yourself.  I wish I could hug you for real.     

Love and light x  



    

[I Am Redeemed]

Harley,

What I meant by custody being more feasible when we were still living together was that it would have been easier financially speaking, because it is nearly impossible for a single mother to find childcare for six kids and still have money for bills. I was more or less speaking theoretically however, because there were all kinds of factors that would have needed to change for that to have happened. He has been pushing me to get a house that I can't afford, and he said he did not understand why I won't get this house so I can get the kids back. He thinks that I am refusing to get the house because I want to continue living with my roommates (whom he has decided are drug dealers and/or gang members) and that I don't really want to get the kids back. He is delusional. He doesn't understand that for years I tried and tried to get him to "see the light" and get help so he could be a healthy and financially responsible partner and the kids could come home to us. That of course never happened, and now I am faced with the reality that I will have to proceed alone and just having a house is not going to be enough for me to gain custody back. Eventually that may be the outcome, but I also may have to face that I will never have full custody back of all six kids. I may have to be a non-custodial parent and have visitation periods where my kids come to stay with me. Whatever that may look like in the future, I am trusting God to handle that.

And yes, at one point while the kids were still in foster care I left uBPDh and went to a domestic violence shelter and my caseworker told me I would never get all my kids back because they did not believe I could take care of six kids alone. This only reinforced my belief that I had to cling to the relationship and the hope of getting him to accept treatment so he could be "fixed" and become a healthy partner. I did not know about BPD, and I did not know that abusive behaviors are so deeply rooted or that they exist separately from mental illness. I believed that if he could get proper diagnosis and treatment that he could "get better".

I did an online chat with the national dv hotline yesterday. I have been putting off going to my local resource center, because something always seems to come up on my only day off and I think "well, I'll go on --- day" but then I don't. I have pondered this and decided, as honestly as I can, that I am afraid that if I go they will tell me that he has violated the protective order in various ways and I will be faced with the decision to report it, and I am avoiding that. I could make all sorts of other excuses for why I haven't gone, but at the heart of the matter I believe that is the reason. So there we are.

However, I believe now that I am not safe. This "separation", to answer your question, has changed into me suddenly becoming aware that I am still trapped in an emotionally and verbally abusive, coercive control relationship. And I believe that I am still in danger.

This past Saturday, I agreed to take him to his mother's house for a visit. He hasn't seen her in almost a year. He also wanted to see his great nephew, and MIL hadn't seen s2 since fourth of July. So we went. It started out fine. Then he asked to use my phone to call her and let her know we were coming, and then instead of giving me my phone back he started to go through it and read all of my texts. He started grilling me about who this person is and who that person is, and he began to get suspicious and angry. I told him he did not have permission to go through my phone but he continued doing it until he got so mad he threw it up into the front of the car from the back seat where he was riding with s2. The whole time we were at his mother's he kept intermittently bringing up the texts and grilling me. He told his mother I was a liar and a cheater. He would then apologize, and fifteen or twenty minutes later he would start again. Blaming me for putting him in jail, making excuses for his behavior last year because he was "sick and hurt" and laid up on the couch unable to move. He was delusional, told his mother about how people are talking about him and slandering him and purposely throwing "stumbling blocks" in his path.

He took my money out of my purse, when I was not looking. He gave it back to me after we got back to the hotel room. I think he did it as a safeguard in case I tried to leave and left him stranded without a ride, because he knew his behavior was scaring me.

His behavior did scare me. And I did not know how to handle it. I found myself back in eggshell mode, trying to appease him and agreeing to things I did not want to do because I was afraid. He had berated me about the woman who keeps s2 on the weekends. Accused her of running a daycare out of her house to cover up the traffic of people going in and out because she is selling drugs (I swear, I cannot make this stuff up) and he insisted on keeping s2 while I went to work. Said he wanted to take him to church. So I gave in even though I did not want to (I am ashamed to even tell anyone this).
When I got off work and went to pick up s2, uBPDh was acting weird. He was making a point to call me "sweetheart" in a slightly sarcastic way. Then he said he was going to check the coolant in the van, and he went out. When he came back he started grilling me again about some of my male co-workers. He finally got in to our joint facebook page and read some messages from when I was using that as my messenger. There was a completely benign message from one of my male coworkers and he was incensed because this man had called me sweetheart. Now we live in the South, where people call each other names like that all the time. Nothing is meant by it. But of course he accused me of sleeping with this man, and a number of other men, and kept on with the accusations and blaming and I decided I was leaving. So I got s2 and his stuff and we went out to the car, and uBPDh helped me carry everything down without resistance. It felt "off" to me because usually he hangs on and cries and clings. But he didn't this time. And when I got down there, the van wouldn't start.

Now I don't know if he actually did anything to it or if it was a strange coincidence, but he claims the fuel pump is now out. Without warning. It drove fine when I got off work, and all of a sudden it doesn't work. It's possible the fuel pump did go out. But a few weeks ago, when we were visiting uBPDh, he made a random comment about how he was going to disable my van and force me to stay the night with him and he started laughing when I looked at him and acted like that was just preposterous, he was just joking. Very strange.

And the next thing I know, because panic had started to set in a little, he's got s2 and his bag and taken him back into the room. And I started to feel trapped. And the next few hours were nothing but him obsessively searching my old messenger messages and grilling me over the contents, then he threaten divorce, then break down crying and clinging on to me, saying he wanted me back, and hugging me tightly. Mood swings all over the place. I almost had a panic attack and I was trembling and crying and he knew I was scared that he was going to hurt me. He kept saying, "no, no ,no I'm not going to hurt you" and he would wrap his arms around me and rock me back and forth, saying that "we" were going to get this house and get our kids back, and praying and saying he loved me and that God will take him out of this world if I leave him.

He forced me to cuddle with him. And then he tried to make me have sex with him. Even after I said "No" repeatedly, he continued to do it. But then he stopped, and said he was stopping because I was saying "NO" as if the first time I said it shouldn't have been enough. But he went far enough that it was coerced sexual activity. Because I was scared to fight, scared that he would hurt me.

Somehow, I survived that night and the next morning he claimed his alarm did not go off so he was late for work. He said he could try to make the van start. He went down and looked at it, said it started and was running and I was going to take him to work, pretend everything was okay and then leave and not ever go back. But then he said he needed one more cup of coffee from the lobby before we went, and when he came back he said the van had died. I gave up all hope of him getting my van to start, and he said he was taking the bus to work but he somehow managed to stall and miss every bus. I messaged my coworker to come pick me up because I had to watch her kids for her, and I did not want her to have to see him but he made sure that she did. I am sure he waited around on purpose to make sure it was she that was giving me a ride and not one of my fictitious boyfriends.

So I contacted the dv hotline to talk over what I had experienced. They were supportive, but I need local support quickly. My van is still broken down at the hotel. UBPDh is offering to fix it and is now relentlessly trying to contact me about putting a plan together to fix "our " van. He has also forwarded some of my old messages from the messenger account and continued to question, accuse and blame. He has painted himself as "repaying evil with good" for offering to fix my van when according to him, some of his friends that he talked to told him he should tell me to have "one of my other men fix it for me". When he said that to me, I hung up. I was trying to maintain civil contact until I can get my van out of his immediate access. I
am really scared now and I want to go complete no contact, but I want to do it safely and I need a safety plan- fast.

This has escalated to an alarming level quickly, and he is now pushing me to "give him an answer" about whether we are reconciling or not. I have basically seen every behavior on the checklist for Signs An Abuser Has Not Changed and also his mental state is very unstable. The other day when he called me over ninety times and I didn't answer, I think that triggered a psychotic episode that has increased and been fueled by his jealousy and suspiciousness. He also told me he found out how to 'ping' my phone and tell where I am at all times (though of course he said he wouldn't do that).

I have not answered him today. I don't really have money to fix a fuel pump, but I need to get it towed before he does something crazy. I don't want to have any more contact and I am really anxious about this.

My coworkers and I have come up with a code word that I can put on the group work message if I ever find myself around him and don't feel safe to call 911. I don't have transportation to get to the dv center today but I am going to call them. I feel like this relationship is closing in on me and I just want out.

Thanks for being here you guys

Redeemed

[formflier]

   

Briefly... .

When he wouldn't give your phone back, you should have turned around and/or driven to a police station.

If that had happened... what would your life be like now? 

Please don't hear blame in this. 

Isn't this the reason that you have a protective order?

   

There are many other things flying around in this story, I've tried to distill it down to the critical parts.

Last:  Is there ever a reason for you to be alone with him without another adult (who is on your side) with you?

FF

[Cat Familiar]

Does this experience qualify as “something major enough to set limits”? I hope so.

It sounds like he’s becoming increasingly dangerous and you no longer have the option of hoping for the best and LC. As you’ve undoubtedly read, abusers become more dangerous when the object of their abuse is leaving.

Definitely you need local help ASAP. And really the easiest thing to do is to demonstrate how he has repeatedly violated the protective order.

This is a no win situation and you must confront the fact that he is not safe and that things are escalating.

   
Cat

[Cat Familiar]

Redeemed,
When you speak to DV services, can you ask about re-serving the restraining order?  He's not getting your message that you don't want to move in with him, nor do you want to be open to his advances. He has already assaulted you twice, and the second time he upped the ante. Please don't let there be a third time.

By doing this, he has put his right to see his child at risk. It isn't safe for you to be in his presence with your son. He's ruined that option. Permanently.

Please get help and be safe.

Cat

[Cat Familiar]

By voluntarily seeing him, you might be weakening the RO and he might have a valid argument that it is no longer enforceable.

I know you've felt badly about him not seeing his son, but time and time again, he's showed you that he doesn't respect you and this puts you into a very vulnerable place.

It's time that you be your own advocate and make those difficult choices to protect yourself and your son.

[empath]

I'm glad that you contacted the dv hotline. Be safe and keep S2 safe.

[I Am Redeemed]

Yes, Cat, I worry about that too. I am trying to see if I can get off work early tomorrow and have my friend take me to the dv resource center. It's close to her house.
The center has people who can help me with the protection order questions. I have questions about my option to change the contact allowed. My roommate has one on her ex and I believe she said they told her she could change it to no contact if she wants to. She has been having contact with her ex and allowing him to see their son, but he hasn't been acting crazy. Mine has.
Today he sent me a Facebook message that said he was emotionally hurting, and the rest of the message was addressed to his dead father. It ended with happy birthday, and I remembered that today would have been his dad's birthday if he were still living.
Possibly that has contributed to his mental state, but it doesn't excuse anything. It's obvious that he sent me that message to evoke emotion of some kind. Sympathy, whatever.
He also said he prayed and asked God about our situation and God told him to stop frustrating me, and to build me up instead of tearing me down. That we should stop fighting and work together.
This is all part of the crazy making. He can flip from one person to another overnight, or in hours or minutes.
He also believes he has some deep symbiotic connection to s2. And he also said the devil put the anger in him the other night because he was trying to heal the baby, his great nephew, and the devil wanted to stop that.
I am reading all these responses over and over because you guys are helping me stay grounded. I don't know why I need so much validation that my fears of his behavior are justified, but I need it anyway. Maybe it's from years of being gaslighted and blamed.
I am going to talk to my manager tonight about how to get my van to the mechanic he knows. I trust my manager and he recommended this person. I had his number in my phone and it has been deleted. It was one of the contacts uBPDh questioned. Another reason I think he may have purposely disabled my van.

I will update when I go to the dv resource center.

Thanks everyone,

Redeemed