How to not be invalidated

[Euler2718]

Sometimes BPD tells me "you're angry" or "you don't love me" or such things -- is this an example of invalidating? Also, often I find myself believing what she says, since I'm not in touch with my insides so she seems more authoritative about emotional things.

Anyway, what am I supposed to say to these things? I wanna protect my psyche from the invalidation but of course I dont wanna fight. What about just ignoring it, does this sound healthy? I think it still sinks into me if I don't say anything. I'm not saying she's not right (she almost always is) but I want help figuring me out, not to be told how I feel. It's a but subtle maybe.

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[Harri]

Well, I don't like it when people tell me my feelings.  It took me a long time to get there though and I too used to believe what other people said because I was not in touch with my feelings and I believed other people knew more and were smarter than me.  I will say here that I was raised by a mentally ill mother and father who were extremely invalidating and controlling so that is where I was sort of groomed for being that way.  It can be changed though.

I would not say no to her with the intention of trying to convince her or get her to change or even stop.  I would say something just to hear myself stand up for me and say no.  I had to learn to get y own power and stop letting my family rule me and dictate my feelings to me.  I think you can do the same.  A simple, "no, i disagree" or no, I am not angry, said once.  You can also combine it with validation and say "I know it must be hard to think I am angry.  Please stop telling me how I am feeling" or something like that.  

I'm not saying she's not right (she almost always is) but I want help figuring me out, not to be told how I feel.

Well, I am not that familiar with your story so I do not know if she is capable of helping you figure out your own feelings.  A lot of the times what they say is a projection about their own feelings that they can not tolerate holding onto.  I would work on you getting to know yourself and getting more familiar with your feelings on your own and here on the board.

It is possible you are shut off and shut down from your own feelings.  that could be related to depression (I am thinking of your thread on self care here).
Thoughts?

[Euler2718]

Im SO shut down. I was depressed for my first 37 years, but I just got back from the T and how to "open me up" was my major issue and why I've lost at love a lot (women are like: you dont love me, you don't even like me, and i cant even really say much convincingly because im do out of touch). Then I was googling to try to find out what the difference is between being lonely and missing someone, they both seem painful and the same. BPD seems to understand these things but i dont. Now im on a quest to understand all of this (which works whether she comes back or not).

I don't know how to "get more familiar with my feelings" but it's like trying to learn guitar without any music background or instruction. I got a page with faces and feelings, it's gonna be a slow process. I wanna change as quickly as possible now that I see it's possible.

I can really only differentiate sad, mad, happy, and afraid. I can hear other things (e.g. frustrated) but they seem like states of mind not feelings. I'm like feeling disabled!

Now and then I figure something out today I concluded my inner child is furious with me cause I let the BPD go. But I made the best decision I could under pressure. He wanted me to get her to stay but it seemed like I would be "holding her back".

I never thought about all this now it's my life's work.

Thanks for responding, any ideas are welcome.

[Harri]

Hi Euler.   It is good that you are working with a T and even better that you are determined to figure this out.  It is a process and you will get it with time.  I think the hardest part for me was getting the drive to keep going.  Finding some reason to keep working on this.  I knew once I went from being shut down to having feelings, it was going to be uncomfortable for a while, so be prepared for that and be willing to go through it.  When you get through to the other side it is so worth it. 

I don't really have any specific advice for you.  Each person finds their own way.  I do think continuing to post, read and participating in other threads here will help you a great deal.  For a while I was unable to go to therapy and this place was my lifeline and I learned so much.  Once I did get back to a T I stayed here and it was so much better to have both places to work.  Helping others helpd me to see my own situation better too.  It was easier to feel for other people than it was to feel for my own situation also.   

Little things that make a big difference in my mood are well, obviously, my antidepressants!  but also making sure I get some outdoor time... .even a half hour or so.  Listening to music.  Art.  so we are back to self care a bit here but it is also finding ways to get in tough with your feelings.  I listen to metal when i am angry for example. 

I never thought about all this now it's my life's work.

You are worth the hard work and effort.

[Euler2718]

I took Wellbutrin for several years and it was really helpful, I think. As a recovering person, I was afraid of going that route but it really helped. One concern I have with the bod is that she'll stress me into a depressive state; I'm predisposed to it, so I need to be extra careful.

[Chitchat]

Hi Euler

Yes, I definitely understand your need to care for yourself.
 
They say cluster B need reactions. If that is what your partner wants, and she has identified your weak spots, she will just keep touching them. So your own emotional state in response to the invalidating emotional state will be important than the wording of the invalidation.  'Doing nothing' will validate your partner if she sees you are hurt. Feeling nothing will wrongfoot her and switch her emotional state from offensive to defensive or defensive to offensive.

What I try hard to do is blank out the words, when they are abusive, and 'listen' to the emotional state. But the mistake I made initially was to blank out the words and 'listen' to the emotion, and empathise with the weaker state. Eventually I learned and reversed a breakup by listening, empathising, smiling sadly while telling her she was lying, and letting her walk out on me. It took more than one scene for her to escalate before capitulating.

To be clear, she escalated a couple of weeks later, after I had put distance between us, by parading a 'conquest' in front of me. I responded with mild petulance, but this triggered a violent assault, and reversed the reversal. In retrospect, I see she was volatile, overwhelmed with emotions, both vulnerable and malignant, and was merely touching my clearly identified weakest spot, jealousy. I messed up by acting predictably, and emotionally, even if mildly. I am still learning to deal with this kind of invalidation. She can be so effective that I have avoided her when she is possibly reaching out. My focus is now on guarding against incipient anxiety and depression.

Best wishes, Euler

Chitchat