Ex and I ended whatever it is we had...

[hopefulbutlost17]

I've posted on here before about my current status with my ex.  I posted earlier today about how things went down the last 24 hours. 

I think our conversation today was the most clarified one we've had in a long time... I called her out on what she wanted from me. I told her it made me sad that she was treating me the way she treats another friend/ex of hers. She claims that I pushed her to do that with my "trash" talking words and attitude.  I even told her that my emotional disorder is not her fault.  She did trigger it with the push/pull method of everything would be great between us and then all of sudden she'd leave me for someone else out of the blue (that went on for 2 years). I explained that it took her 2 years to realize what she was doing was wrong and it took me months to figure it out. But because she got hurt within those months, I'm now painted black.  I explained that it makes me sad she doesn't believe me when I say I am trying to better myself (even showed her my appointment card from my counselor).  I told her that just like her stress and feelings come from somewhere deeper, so do mine.  I offered to help her learn to deal with her feelings and emotions but she didn't say a word. 

I know that maybe explaining and things I said may have invalidated her completely but I'm at my point where I need to know what's going on and what exactly it is she wants from me because I cannot continue to be hurt like this.  After back and forth, she finally messaged me saying that she wanted a "cool friendship." I am a strong believer in "exes cannot be friends" and she is not. I have explained this to her several times we have broken up and she can't seem to comprehend that I cannot turn my emotions and feelings like she can. 

She cares too much of what others think and made a comment about it which I didn't find fair and straight up ridiculous.

She says I caused her pain and that she is still in pain. Her homework from school (she's in college) is overwhelming and her father's health issues are affecting her as well. I stated that I do not want to add stress to her life and just want a clear vision of what she wants from so I can plan accordingly. 

We are not on the same page... I want a relationship or something that is working towards that road, she doesn't. She blames me for everything and doesn't take in to consideration all the hurt and pain she caused me.  Since I "threw it" in her face for so long now it's my turn to take it.  2 years of what she did does not compare to a few months of what I did.  I understand now why she is feeling so much pain and hurt for what I did. I just discovered BPD traits a month ago... But at this point, she has no hope for our relationship and doesn't believe or trust that someone (me) can change after discovering their own issues.  I know I cannot change her mind with words... She has what I call "tunnel vision".  Her words "I don't want to care about life right now. I'm just doing me and going about life as whatever" "We hurt each other too much"

It's so painful and frustrating that the person you love, care for, know so well, and want a future with can just discard you like nothing and not take responsibility for anything hurt or pain they caused. Crazy of me to want to still be there and care for her. I know hard times are coming for her and I know I cannot rescue her and need to let her fail. It hurts a lot but I know this will be good for her and myself.  Maybe one day, I pray, she will come and tell me "you were right, I need help... take me"

Excuse the long post, but venting to my friends has gotten exhausting for them... and all of this just happened during my lunch hour. 

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[once removed]

We are not on the same page...

it sounds like theres a lot of hurt and unfinished business. getting some space from each other and the arguments can help.

It hurts a lot but I know this will be good for her and myself.  Maybe one day, I pray, she will come and tell me "you were right, I need help... take me"

its been some hours, how are you feeling about it at the moment? how are you holding up?

[hopefulbutlost17]

it sounds like theres a lot of hurt and unfinished business. getting some space from each other and the arguments can help.

its been some hours, how are you feeling about it at the moment? how are you holding up?

Hey Once removed,

Thanks for asking. It sucks bad. I keep blaming myself but I know it’s not entirely my fault. I know words were said by me that were not pretty in the recent past but it was out of frustration and hurt. Having the knowledge I have now I wish I could go back and not say what I said. It was horrible but I guess I’m her head they were due to her mother invalidating her when she was you get and we’ll, to this day. I wish she would just believe me this one last time and go to an actual session with me but I know it’s diffucult for some with BPD traits to even consider it (i asked her a month ago if she would consider it and she said no). She’s no angel, she did major damage as well. Her words and actions are playing in my head and it just takes me to this sad and self blaming place. I keep telling myself it’s nkt my fault. I’ve done a lot and so much more for her and the least she can do is go through the struggle with me. But I know it’s easier for them to just wipe their hands clean and move on to the next shiny new thing (friends or new partner).

When we were talking she said that she hated the fact that people thought we were back together just by my social media posts. We posted our outings at the same time, same place and because one of her new and recent close friends assumed we were together, she made it a big deal. She also said that she shouldn’t have to worry about my feelings when it comes to hanging out or talking or her staying over. She knows how I feel about her. For her to say that I pushed her to treat me the way she treats another one of her exes/friend sucks. I’ve seen how she treats her and it’s not pretty. I don’t want to be treated that way. Hence why I decided to see a counselor. I figured if I did I can help better myself and my outbursts but I know all that stems from something deeper with me. Like I said in the previous post, I was trying to explain that to her but she just tuned out and didn’t care.

And what sucks even more, i know eventually she will come back (that’s her cycle and she can’t stay away) but she will continue to blame me for being selfish for not wanting to be friends with her. FYI, I am the only ex who has not remained friends with her. She is actually “friends” or at least aquatinted with her exes. However, I am the only one who truly knows her, understand her, knows her triggers, bows how to handle her, etc. Catch 22 for me!

[Mutt]

And what sucks even more, i know eventually she will come back (that’s her cycle and she can’t stay away) but she will continue to blame me for being selfish for not wanting to be friends with her. FYI, I am the only ex who has not remained friends with her. She is actually “friends” or at least aquatinted with her exes

Don’t put yourself in the friend zone. I agree with you to not stay friends after a r/s is over she wants the best of both worlds access to on a more than friends level with emotional intimacy without the commitment. It’s your boundary it’s ok if she doesn’t like it what works for one person doesn’t necessarily work for another.

On the other hand she said that she doesn’t want a r/s that’s her boundary and you should respect that as well. Maybe she can’t fully commit right now i don’t if this topic comes up often but if you bring it up too much it’s going to cause problems.

I’m glad to hear that you chose to go to counseling it’s going to help a lot. You sound like a really nice person you’re taking initiative and owning your stuff and you’re interested in self improvement. She doesn’t sound like she’s interested in it you mentioned tunnel vision maybe you’re more introspective and she’s more extroverted and less introspective some people just don’t want to know more than what’s on the surface they want to do a lot of things,be distracted so that they don’t have to sit still with their thoughts and that’s ok.

She is who she is it sounds like you’re wanting something that the other person can’t or doesn’t want to offer. Maybe accept her for who she is and don’t expect more. If she has a pattern of coming back then it’s probably going to happen if you’re not interested in recycling the r/s then it’s not going to happen.

[hopefulbutlost17]

Don’t put yourself in the friend zone. I agree with you to not stay friends after a r/s is over she wants the best of both worlds access to on a more than friends level with emotional intimacy without the commitment. It’s your boundary it’s ok if she doesn’t like it what works for one person doesn’t necessarily work for another.

On the other hand she said that she doesn’t want a r/s that’s her boundary and you should respect that as well. Maybe she can’t fully commit right now i don’t if this topic comes up often but if you bring it up too much it’s going to cause problems.

I’m glad to hear that you chose to go to counseling it’s going to help a lot. You sound like a really nice person you’re taking initiative and owning your stuff and you’re interested in self improvement. She doesn’t sound like she’s interested in it you mentioned tunnel vision maybe you’re more introspective and she’s more extroverted and less introspective some people just don’t want to know more than what’s on the surface they want to do a lot of things,be distracted so that they don’t have to sit still with their thoughts and that’s ok.

She is who she is it sounds like you’re wanting something that the other person can’t or doesn’t want to offer. Maybe accept her for who she is and don’t expect more. If she has a pattern of coming back then it’s probably going to happen if you’re not interested in recycling the r/s then it’s not going to happen.

Thank you Mutt!
Yes! She wants the best of both worlds and every time we get to this point, I stand my ground and tell her I want a relationship. I’ve always told her to be clear with me on what she wants. She says “friends” I say no we go no contsct and a couple weeks later we are back at it. I have always told her that I respect her choice on not wanting a relationship but to let me be. Somehow I keep getting sucked back I , she gives or tells me what I want, just when I think we are going in the right direction, boom, she hits me with the “friends”. Blames me for her not wanting to be in one, etc etc.  Trust me, I’m not the only one who has hurt her and what i did does not compare to what she and others have done.
I respect her choices and decisions. I respect her boundaries. She took sex off the table two months ago. Did I hint st it every now and then, yes but she would say no and I back off. I respect that she wants to have her own life and friends etc. But she expected me to tell her everything I was doing and with who. The minute I asked her, “you’re so nosy”. Really? I admit the topic comes up often due to the fact that I end up wanting clarification or to move forward and she doesn’t.
I can’t be friends nor will I be friends. She wants to come back she needs to be committed to but at the same time I will not force her. This has been a cycle for 3 years and up until this year, is when I’ve put my boundaries. They become blurred after a while as the cycle continues.

I have noticed a pattern. Her birthday is this weekend. In the 3 years I have been with her, we never spent one of her birthdays together. She always “ends” things with me right before. Funny huh? She ends up spending it alone or with someone else. Hypes up her birthday and gets excited  but then when we start talking afterwards she will tell me she didn’t do anything.

She does try to keep herself occupied. Always texting with people on her phone, trying to make plans to meet up with others or doing homework or working out. She’s always busy (busy also complains she never has time and is always tired). Yes, I agree that’s okay for her to do. Who wants to sit with their thoughts all the time and then spiral into oblivion with them? She’s entitled to live her life the way she wants. I’ve always respected that. Believe me when I say I’ve given her everything and more. I’m sure I’m not the only one on here who feels the same.

Btw, she did message me earlier saying “I want to thank you. I have no idea what you did when you taped my back but it doesn’t hurt at all!” I simply replied with a “You’re welckme” after a while.

The advice and reassurance is helping. Please do keep it coming.

Thank you all so much!

[once removed]

if you want to detach, dont keep fighting the same battles from the relationship with her. it just keeps us attached in a way.

one of the harder lessons i learned is that i had to take all my feelings of unfairness and injustice (not to mention hurt), process them and heal, and there was really no role she could have in that. or vice versa. 99% of the time, it just doesnt work that way in a breakup. its about us now.

if theres a silver lining, its that it will make you a stronger more resilient person. you know what they say though, about sometimes having to go through hell to get there, but get there we do, and we (the family here) will walk with you every step of the way.

[hopefulbutlost17]

Thank you so much! I’m so happy to have found you all and be part of the family. Finally, others that I can’t relate to and vice versa. Talking my friends can only go so far... they understand to an extent...

Update: my ex has messaged me about twice already since we have “ended” things. She even called me twice while I was at work. And she has yet to come pick up her things and return my apartment keys

[Mutt]

Update: my ex has messaged me about twice already since we have “ended” things. She even called me twice while I was at work. And she has yet to come pick up her things and return my apartment keys

I’m gkad to hear that you’re getting the help that you need. I completely understand how it can feel like you’re burning out your friends with a breakup with a upwBPD. Family and friends are really important in real life it helps when the other person has been a r/s with BPD traits.

You probably already know that leaving her things behind and having your apartment keys creates potential reasons to get in touch with you. What are you going to do with this information? What I mean is are you done with the r/s?

[hopefulbutlost17]

You probably already know that leaving her things behind and having your apartment keys creates potential reasons to get in touch with you. What are you going to do with this information? What I mean is are you done with the r/s?

Yes, I figured that’s the reason she did that. With that information, I guess just let her be the one to come for her things when she’s ready. I known if I push it will invalidate her and cause a whole other fight that I just don’t want to go through. I’m exhausted.

I do love her and want to be with her, but not under the conditions she wants. I don’t find it fair she wants the best of both worlds. I guess it’s sometbing I’m going to have to figure out in the next couple of days/weeks/months. There is so much history, connection/attachment, not only with her but her family. But it sucks cause I’ve been painted black not only with her but her closest confidants (her sister and best friend). I know I shouldn’t care about what they think cause she’s painted an image of me that’s only “her side” of the story.

Any suggestions if you were in my shoes?

[Mutt]

I’ve been in your shoes before and my gf communicated to me that she didn’t want a r/s I just got off a WhatsApp video call tonight we video call every night when I’m not at her house we talk every day it’s a r/s. You relate with someone often it’s a r/s.

I pushed it too far and I kept asking her where she saw us going etc and we broke up. I thought about the reason why we broke up and being asked a question often that you’ve already answered and the other person wants a different answer is not fun to be around.

She didn’t want to get back together I was heart broken because I really like her I thought about it if neither compromise it’s over if one compromises and I knew she wasn’t then we have something. I thought well we have a r/s age has her reasons why she doesn’t want to call it a r/s we find ways to make it work. I thought why put a label on it?

I got friend zoned and I didn’t want to stay in the friend zone she told me find someone else I started dating I found someone and we liked each other we didn’t sleep together  I didn’t want to cross a line if I slept with this new girl I can’t go back to my ex id feel too guilty.

 My gf, ex at the time wanted me back when she saw that I was seeing someone else if you have something readily available to you all of the time then you don’t want it as much if something scarce and rare the you want that thing.

She wanted me back and I stopped hounding her about defining what we had we are exclusive and we support each other and love each other and for now I’m happy with that it’s worlds apart from what I had with exuBPDw I enjoy it a lot.

My advice is get busy with yourself go work out in a gym everyday, spend time with family and friends, get busy with your hobbies, take an online undergraduate course at university just get busy with your own life she’ll notice that but you have to decide what you want if you can or can’t compromise. What do you want?

[Turkish]

People with BPD have trouble regulating their emotions.  Given all that is going on in her life, that seems to be the case as you describe.  Stress triggers survival. Maybe cut-and-run here. 

It's an interesting turn of phrase.  My ex told me that she felt like I was throwing her "sickness" in her face.  I can understand how she felt that, but I can't imagine ever telling someone else that about anything I could imagine them telling me.  I interpret that like "leave me alone, I don't want to deal with that!"

[hopefulbutlost17]

I’ve been in your shoes before and my gf communicated to me that she didn’t want a r/s I just got off a WhatsApp video call tonight we video call every night when I’m not at her house we talk every day it’s a r/s. You relate with someone often it’s a r/s.

I pushed it too far and I kept asking her where she saw us going etc and we broke up. I thought about the reason why we broke up and being asked a question often that you’ve already answered and the other person wants a different answer is not fun to be around.

She didn’t want to get back together I was heart broken because I really like her I thought about it if neither compromise it’s over if one compromises and I knew she wasn’t then we have something. I thought well we have a r/s age has her reasons why she doesn’t want to call it a r/s we find ways to make it work. I thought why put a label on it?

I got friend zoned and I didn’t want to stay in the friend zone she told me find someone else I started dating I found someone and we liked each other we didn’t sleep together  I didn’t want to cross a line if I slept with this new girl I can’t go back to my ex id feel too guilty.

 My gf, ex at the time wanted me back when she saw that I was seeing someone else if you have something readily available to you all of the time then you don’t want it as much if something scarce and rare the you want that thing.

She wanted me back and I stopped hounding her about defining what we had we are exclusive and we support each other and love each other and for now I’m happy with that it’s worlds apart from what I had with exuBPDw I enjoy it a lot.

My advice is get busy with yourself go work out in a gym everyday, spend time with family and friends, get busy with your hobbies, take an online undergraduate course at university just get busy with your own life she’ll notice that but you have to decide what you want if you can or can’t compromise. What do you want?

I completely agree with you, Mutt. You relate with someone often, do things together, see family, and practically live together, that's a r/s.
I can see where asking the same question over and over after they have given you an answer.  As far as you questioning yourself "why put a label on it?" I don't know how it is with your r/s but with my ex, every time we fight she throws it in my face "we aren't even together" or "you're not even my partner" or "you're not even my gf." But I also see you're perspective "why put a label on it if she doesn't want to."
Let me ask you this, when she found out you were dating someone else and then decided to get back with you did she ever question or throw it in your face that you were quick to move on or make comments about the person you were dating (kind of like in an upset or jealous way) and continue to do so every now and then?  Cause I've done that (not date) but hang out with friends and keep myself busy and my ex would always throw it in my face along the lines of "oh since when do you talk/hang out with so-n-so" or "now you all are best friends or what" or "go hang out with so-n-so"... .She will then call me fake if she sees me being myself: friendly, smiling, laughing, helpful.
I'm all about getting busy and having fun so I'm not so available.  Little problem (or maybe not) we workout at the same gym and if I were to go it's going to be around the same time she's there only because 1. I'm trying to avoid bad vibes from my original time slot in the mornings and 2. it's the time my job allows and I don't like working out late (cause then I eat late). (Going to another gym is not an option) I can "avoid" her and be casual and say hello, that's not a problem.  Just an fyi, I guess.
Thoughts?

[hopefulbutlost17]

People with BPD have trouble regulating their emotions.  Given all that is going on in her life, that seems to be the case as you describe.  Stress triggers survival. Maybe cut-and-run here. 

It's an interesting turn of phrase.  My ex told me that she felt like I was throwing her "sickness" in her face.  I can understand how she felt that, but I can't imagine ever telling someone else that about anything I could imagine them telling me.  I interpret that like "leave me alone, I don't want to deal with that!"

Hey Turkish,
I agree, stress triggers survival and that's what she's doing.  I see it as my way of "I'm going to leave you alone so you can handle it the best way you know how and I don't get caught in the crossfire" I agree, I can never tell someone, let alone my ex that "hey you're mentally ill." So when she's stressed and makes it known I either back off or ask her if there's anything she needs and let her be. Time apart is definitely a good thing. My only issue, she changes herself completely, her demeanor, her attitude. For example: she's a b****... .and has this whatever attitude and just doesn't care.  And in her words "this is me now, I'm being me" When I know for a fact, that is not her at all. I've see the real her... It's like she's testing me if I will continue to stay with her "new" personality.

[once removed]

"oh since when do you talk/hang out with so-n-so" or "now you all are best friends or what" or "go hang out with so-n-so"... .She will then call me fake if she sees me being myself: friendly, smiling, laughing, helpful.

reminds me a bit of an episode of roseanne.

i dunno if youve watched, but theres an eccentric, unlucky in love main character named jackie, and shed just broken up with her long term partner, fred. she had always complained that fred was boring. after they broke up, fred starts doing all of the things jackie wanted to do while they were together, but couldnt. jackie gets in his face about how hes doing all this to try to get her back. he tells her it isnt about her.

My only issue, she changes herself completely, her demeanor, her attitude. For example: she's a b****... .and has this whatever attitude and just doesn't care.  And in her words "this is me now, I'm being me" When I know for a fact, that is not her at all. I've see the real her... It's like she's testing me if I will continue to stay with her "new" personality.

both parties, after a breakup tend to go through a transition period. they try out a new look, or new hobbies, reinvent themselves a bit. it looks strange to the other party, like theyre trying too hard.

you two have been kinda going at each other about stuff both small and big. it sounds like there are conflicted feelings, of both love and resentment.

[Mutt]

I don't know how it is with your r/s but with my ex, every time we fight she throws it in my face "we aren't even together" or "you're not even my partner" or "you're not even my gf." But I also see you're perspective "why put a label on it if she doesn't want to."

Hmm my gf will say I don’t think about the future I live in the moment I don’t where things are going to go r/s’s have a beginning middle and end and I know that my gf does not see us long term and the one thing that I learned from dating and dating the other woman is that I can attract other women. I’m not worried about throwing everything I have in this r/s it will have an end eventually I’ll enjoy it while it lasts I’ll  find someone else.

My gf did say similar things when we were broken up that we weren’t in a committed r/s but she didn’t want me to move on she said that are didn’t want any one else to have me but having this thrown back at you had to be frustrating and painful too.  If she’s straddling both sides of the fence you may have to make your choice regardless of how she feels what I mean is commit yourself to not wanting to have a friendship and don’t worry about her values and her feelings.

Let me ask you this, when she found out you were dating someone else and then decided to get back with you did she ever question or throw it in your face that you were quick to move on or make comments about the person you were dating (kind of like in an upset or jealous way) and continue to do so every now and then?  Cause I've done that (not date) but hang out with friends and keep myself busy and my ex would always throw it in my face along the lines of "oh since when do you talk/hang out with so-n-so" or "now you all are best friends or what" or "go hang out with so-n-so"... .She will then call me fake if she sees me being myself: friendly, smiling, laughing, helpful.

Absolutely she pointed out that I was quick to move on and she made comments about the other person that I was dating she said that I was desperate to get into a r/s saying that she was less attractive and that I could do better. She was a really nice woman I liked our sense of humour when we were together I miss that with her.

That being said your ex made her choice if you have different values from each other regardless if you’re in a r/s it’s eventually not going to work. It’s ok to have different values than your ex live your values and find someone with similar values.

My gf has said that she’s insecure i go to a very attractive mature female hairdresser and she always brings her up every time I have a haircut anyways I don’t like she brings it up but I do appreciate she says that she’s insecure it’s not about me it’s about her insecurity and jealousy. Keep hanging out with your friends it sounds like your ex is jealous and she wants attention.

In regards to the gym I sees couple of choices dos routine at home you can get exercise cords / bands you can do cardio by going out for a walk or if you think that you can do it go to your regular gym but act indifferent if you run into your ex don’t show emotion and don’t pay attention to her focus your attention on your work out which is easier said than done I know.

[hopefulbutlost17]

reminds me a bit of an episode of roseanne.

i dunno if youve watched, but theres an eccentric, unlucky in love main character named jackie, and shed just broken up with her long term partner, fred. she had always complained that fred was boring. after they broke up, fred starts doing all of the things jackie wanted to do while they were together, but couldnt. jackie gets in his face about how hes doing all this to try to get her back. he tells her it isnt about her.

both parties, after a breakup tend to go through a transition period. they try out a new look, or new hobbies, reinvent themselves a bit. it looks strange to the other party, like theyre trying too hard.

you two have been kinda going at each other about stuff both small and big. it sounds like there are conflicted feelings, of both love and resentment.

Yes! I'm not sure if those exact things are going through my ex's mind (Jackie's words) but she makes it seem like I'm this totally different person trying to be "fake" when in all honesty, that IS who I really am... I'm a social butterfly, I help others, I talk to others, I laugh, I smile, I like to go out and do different things.  At one point, she was the one who would go out and do the things I always wanted her to do with me, either alone or with someone else and that hurt me a lot. She would post on social media and people would tell/show me (I have her blocked).

But it makes sense, after a break up we try new and different things to see what works.

Yes, I agree lost of resentment and lots of love.  I do feel the love and care from her when we are "good." I mean who goes through all this and makes effort at some point in the r/s if there wasn't love.  She's not the type to bring just anyone around her family or express herself completely.  I've seen and heard things from her that I know she has not shared with others even if they are her close friends. Definitely a lot of resentment.  She always says "I don't even know who you are anymore" all the time!
I mean, who wouldn't change some after all that we have been through with our BPD partners.  It's tough to remain the same person. I try hard to but the pain comes back and well me having abandonment issues and anxiety doesn't help either. I think it's hard to separate our feelings of love and resentment when we are together... We both want to be heard. I think time apart is good and the fact that I'm going to counseling has been helping.

[once removed]

I think it's hard to separate our feelings of love and resentment when we are together... We both want to be heard. I think time apart is good and the fact that I'm going to counseling has been helping.

it sure can be hard... .space can definitely create some room to begin to process and heal and let go of resentments. i suppose none of it is easy, though.

how is the counseling going? how has it helped?

[hopefulbutlost17]

it sure can be hard... .space can definitely create some room to begin to process and heal and let go of resentments. i suppose none of it is easy, though.

how is the counseling going? how has it helped?

Definitely not easy. Especially when she is now messaging me to help her with a college assignment. My responses are short and to the point. I had given her all the information she needed for this particular assignment a couple weeks ago.  She has what she needs to complete it, yet still messages me for "help." Actually, she didn't ask, she simply said "for my class, I need... ."

I hope this time apart works in a positive way... .I know I have a busy week coming that will definitely keep me distracted.

I have only had 2 counseling sessions and one coming up.  My counselor and I are just now hitting my childhood, adolescent and adult years.  But at the same time, she has pointed out a few things that make complete sense as to why I feel the way I feel.  One is abandonment issues, anxiety, high expectations, a little depression.  We are slowly getting to the core of all of these things and how it ties to my every day life and my r/s with my ex.  She did mention that it would make sense how a person with abandonment issues would find a person with BPD traits attractive and vice versa.  I'm very optimistic and glad I began to go. I did reach out to her out of anxiousness the day I ended things with my ex and she set up a video call with me for Sunday and at the end of her message she said "It's not your fault!" Helped a lot. 

[hopefulbutlost17]

.

Absolutely she pointed out that I was quick to move on and she made comments about the other person that I was dating she said that I was desperate to get into a r/s saying that she was less attractive and that I could do better.

My gf has said that she’s insecure i go to a very attractive mature female hairdresser and she always brings her up every time I have a haircut anyways I don’t like she brings it up but I do appreciate she says that she’s insecure it’s not about me it’s about her insecurity and jealousy. Keep hanging out with your friends it sounds like your ex is jealous and she wants attention.

Well, I'm glad your gf at least admits that's she's insecure. My ex just makes comments like the ones I mentioned and doesn't admit to anything.  But I feel deep down it is because she is insecure. I feel I'm her safety net and once she doesn't see that safety net, she freaks out and reacts that way or finds a way to pull me back to "safety."

I will continue to stay occupied and have fun. When I mope around it just doesn't help the process of fixing any issues or moving forward in a positive way.

[once removed]

But at the same time, she has pointed out a few things that make complete sense as to why I feel the way I feel.  One is abandonment issues, anxiety, high expectations, a little depression. We are slowly getting to the core of all of these things and how it ties to my every day life and my r/s with my ex.  She did mention that it would make sense how a person with abandonment issues would find a person with BPD traits attractive and vice versa.

id say that makes a lot of sense, and also describes a lot of us here. while we all fear abandonment (and engulfment) on some level, some of us do more than others. fears can rule our loves in profound, but not always obvious ways, but when we spot it, with some new tools, and a gradual shift in healthier directions, it can change our lives. doing some digging there will take you far in terms of both the detaching process, and the lessons/skills you want to take into the future.

id encourage you, as part of your process detaching and counseling process, to explore that side of things (how these wounds tie into your life and relationship) with us on the Learning board.

[Mutt]

Well, I'm glad your gf at least admits that's she's insecure. My ex just makes comments like the ones I mentioned and doesn't admit to anything.

You mentioned that you have an emotional disorder? I have GAD traits, depression, anxiety and panic disorder. I didn’t always treat these illnesses I didn’t know that I had them. I’ve been taking Wellbutrin and Straterra for about three years and work out every day to every other day and function a lot better 

Have you had days where it’s really hard to function it takes a lot  of mental energy, I hated theses periods where my anxiety and panic attacks were 9 or 10 on a scale of 10.

You could say that I was really concentrated on myself and it affected my r/s’s with others. I didn’t mean to hurt family and friends, i was oblivious I was fighting to function normally inside.

Do you think that it’s possible that she doesn’t admit to anything for similar reasons?

[Cromwell]

Crazy of me to want to still be there and care for her. I know hard times are coming for her and I know I cannot rescue her and need to let her fail. It hurts a lot but I know this will be good for her and myself.  Maybe one day, I pray, she will come and tell me "you were right, I need help... take me"

I know this is just crystal ball forecasting though.

How might you feel that if she gets on with her life and doesnt feel the need to help you, ie, she just finds a replacement?

The reason im putting this forward is because of how I can relate to these feelings at the time, they were real, but they ultimately turned out different from what I had believed and expected.

It isnt hard to piece together why I felt the way I did - the equivalent that I had a moral duty to protect the equivalent of a defenceless "baby" in society; all I heard was her incessant problems in life, past, present and future doom stories. Yes she put herself in reckless and dangerous situations and that triggered in me a role of "protector", early on in the releationship which then got further cemented.

the reality is, when I left, she got on with life as she had always done prior, found a replacement and whilst I wouldnt trade positions with her for one second, she is resourceful in such a callous and lacking a shred of moral fibre that in some ways she is at more of an advantage than I am at her ability to "struggle" through life.

Point im making is, these dreams of rescuing are just that "dreams". She may or many not face problems that get the better of her, she likewise might end up thriving far better than you expect.

what does the term in the context you have described "cool friendship" sound like? It sounds like a woman who wants both sides of the bargain and inputs very little in return. To give a metaphor; a vegetable planted that can then be harvested later.

release from this burden, you didnt cause it, not responsible for any of it, there is zero obligation morally or otherwise for you to have to feel that way. Its not "crazy" to think that way but its either been induced and/or its triggered a part of you that finds comfort in rescuing.

Is there an element of codependency going on here? As much from your side, perhaps even more? Than from her needing you.

[hopefulbutlost17]

id say that makes a lot of sense, and also describes a lot of us here. while we all fear abandonment (and engulfment) on some level, some of us do more than others. fears can rule our loves in profound, but not always obvious ways, but when we spot it, with some new tools, and a gradual shift in healthier directions, it can change our lives. doing some digging there will take you far in terms of both the detaching process, and the lessons/skills you want to take into the future.

id encourage you, as part of your process detaching and counseling process, to explore that side of things (how these wounds tie into your life and relationship) with us on the Learning board.

Thank you, I will definitely look into it. I’m quite excited of this new journey and getting to the core of everything.

Update: my ex’s birthday is today. I did wish her a happy birthday. She’s been a little spacious with her messages. Last night she told me she was oht smoking to destress cause she has so much going on. I didn’t pry. I simply said that everyone needs to destress every once in a while and  glad she’s taking some time to do that. Around 6:40am this morning she sent me a message saying she couldn’t sleep. I didn’t answer right away but I did ask how come and she said she didn’t know. Then she asked me about a class time at our gym for today. Swhile she was at the gym she said that I should’ve gone. Told her I’m nursing an injury and I’ll start up again Monday. She took a while to respond and I napped and during that time she sent a message saying “sorry I was cleaning my car” and asked how my nap was. I asked how her day is going (since it’s her bday) but nonrespknse yet. I’m actually surprised she’s messaging with me in her bday. We are usually not speaking terms around this time. Thoughts?

[hopefulbutlost17]

You mentioned that you have an emotional disorder? I have GAD traits, depression, anxiety and panic disorder. I didn’t always treat these illnesses I didn’t know that I had them. I’ve been taking Wellbutrin and Straterra for about three years and work out every day to every other day and function a lot better 

Have you had days where it’s really hard to function it takes a lot  of mental energy, I hated theses periods where my anxiety and panic attacks were 9 or 10 on a scale of 10.

You could say that I was really concentrated on myself and it affected my r/s’s with others. I didn’t mean to hurt family and friends, i was oblivious I was fighting to function normally inside.

Do you think that it’s possible that she doesn’t admit to anything for similar reasons?

I've recently discovered I have abandonment issues, mommy/daddy issues, anxiety, and codependency.  My anxiety and panic attacks have been controllable so far.  This last month of self awareness has been completely eye opening for me and I try to find ways of coping. I usually tune everyone out until it passes and let those closest to me know that I need space. I have tried going for walks with a friend and she lets me vent since she knows exactly what is going on with me. It does take some energy for me to talk myself out of these situations, I find myself digging deep on self worth.

I can understand that you don't mean to hurt your family and friends and discovering yourself and learning to cope are quite difficult. Have you made your loved ones aware of what you're going through and why you react the way you do sometimes so they understand? I do feel like my ex is doing the same.  When I ask her how she's doing or what she's been up to I get the same response "I'm just there, doing me. Just trying to be/find myself again." She will tell me at times that she's annoyed or feeling anxious or stressed.  I do pick up on cues when she's feeling anxious (she bites her nails all the time). I know she tries to block everything she is feeling out and try to live a normal life.  I try to help her live that normal life but I can only take so much... .

[hopefulbutlost17]

id say that makes a lot of sense, and also describes a lot of us here. while we all fear abandonment (and engulfment) on some level, some of us do more than others. fears can rule our loves in profound, but not always obvious ways, but when we spot it, with some new tools, and a gradual shift in healthier directions, it can change our lives. doing some digging there will take you far in terms of both the detaching process, and the lessons/skills you want to take into the future.

id encourage you, as part of your process detaching and counseling process, to explore that side of things (how these wounds tie into your life and relationship) with us on the Learning board.

Funny how you mention this. My counselor gave me "homework" to do research on codependency. She read the traits and a little more details on it.  She put things into perspective as far as, "You're going to see how your issues tie into her issues and how it makes the r/s dysfunctionally functional.  But you are also going to see the relationship for what it is.  Your eyes are going to open and you're going to realize and see things that you will not be able to "unsee" and you will learn to heal." We just had a session yesterday and those were her words, not quite verbatim, but to that extent.  Helps me realize I'm am not "crazy" and I am not the only one.  I can't thank you all enough for hearing me out, your advice, etc.  It has helped so much that even my counselor has said she has seen a difference since I first began with her.

[hopefulbutlost17]

How might you feel that if she gets on with her life and doesnt feel the need to help you, ie, she just finds a replacement?

Point im making is, these dreams of rescuing are just that "dreams". She may or many not face problems that get the better of her, she likewise might end up thriving far better than you expect.

what does the term in the context you have described "cool friendship" sound like? It sounds like a woman who wants both sides of the bargain and inputs very little in return. To give a metaphor; a vegetable planted that can then be harvested later.


Is there an element of codependency going on here? As much from your side, perhaps even more? Than from her needing you.

Hi Cromwell,

Yes, I have been "replaced" by her two new best friends, C and L.  They are currently in the idealization stage.  Everything is about them and what they suggest/advise, what they say, what they do, etc.  I believe in the end she will be successful. I see it, I feel it. She moves from one person to the next to gain that success.  What is sad is that they have no clue their time will come as far as being discarded... I did reach out to C about my ex a while back due to desperation in helping my ex during a tough time. I did tell her about BPD traits, etc.  She even asked me on time, "do you think she will turn on me?" I said, "one day, but not any time soon, but it will happen."  Instead, C turned on me and that's fine, I'm over it. I didn't reach out to C to warn her, I reached out to help my ex and C to understand the person that she "so deeply loves and cares for." But that is not my problem nor my responsibility anymore.  So I agree, it is time to detach from this burden and try to move on. 

A "cool friendship" to me is exactly what you described.  She wants the best of both worlds, and I caught on.  Hence, the reason why we "ended" it.  She's a taker, and barely gives.  I wish I could go on and on and on about everything she has done in the last 3 years but i will save you the novel.  Literally has sucked the emotional life out of me.

And yes, codependency is hitting the nail on the head.  I responded to another post stating that my counselor opened my eyes to it and gave me homework to do as much research on codependency for myself as I have done for BPD for my ex.  I'm looking forward to what I will find and begin to heal.  A lot stems from my adolescent years (mommy/daddy issues) and to present (daddy issues still). In the words of my counselor, "Your r/s with your ex is dysfunctionally functional. You feed each other's need in a dysfunctional way."

[once removed]

i like your counselor! id encourage you to explore some of that homework regarding abandonment issues and codependency on the Learning board, and get some feedback there.

"You're going to see how your issues tie into her issues and how it makes the r/s dysfunctionally functional.  But you are also going to see the relationship for what it is.  Your eyes are going to open and you're going to realize and see things that you will not be able to "unsee" and you will learn to heal."

by nature, seeing the relationship from more of a 30000 ft up view, without the drama/trauma is a detached perspective. getting there is how we untangle/detach from all the complexities, and the stuff we struggle with most.

A "cool friendship" to me is exactly what you described.  She wants the best of both worlds, and I caught on.  Hence, the reason why we "ended" it.  She's a taker, and barely gives.

if you want to be friends, you need "ex/friend" boundaries. honestly, in those friendships, there usually isnt much "taking or giving". it tends to be much lighter, mostly just catching up, saying how ya doing.

[Cromwell]

Fast forward to the evening where she went out with her best friend C and got drunk, she sent me messages asking me to be awake and to answer her calls, to stay up with her cause she didn't want to pass out at the club she was at, etc.  Honestly, I was annoyed.  Why me? Why call me? Call your other friends you talk all day every and idealize to stay up with you.  She ended up facetiming me and made a comment saying "you look tired". Well yeah, It's 1:30am and you woke up up.  I told her "yes I'm tired, I was asleep."
... .
Thoughts?

Did you express these thoughts to her, or just here?

Id find it reasonable thing to mention and get the answer direct from her.

As long as you make yourself "on call" or available, it is like an unspoken contract that you are willing to tolerate this sort of inconvenient behaviour. I was always running after my ex, answering those early morning calls, I stopped doing it and she stopped trying, but in hindsight, it feels like a combination of need fulfillment combined with a bit of "pressure testing". She learned by my allowing it that I was willing to forego my own needs (sleep for this example) in favour to serving her.

There are 2 sides to this relationship, and if you are the friend who fits lock and key style, its no wonder she doesnt want to lose you. As you said - why does she not try the others - because id hazard a guess to suggest she doesnt want to annoy them. Perhaps if you were more important to her now, she wouldnt risk annoying you - I see you on the periphery as a form of support to fill in those lonely gaps, where your support helps her through those difficult times where she doesnt have to risk burdening the more idolised friends.

I feel there was a responsibility on my side to have articulated better my own needs and not establish these patterns of being available when I didnt want to be. I felt the same way you do, but I didnt express it to my ex. Instead I let the demands increase even more over time, to the point I felt I had to leave the relationship entirely as it became too much.

A cool friendship is fine - just as long as it means what it suggests for both-sides. That means, you enjoying the friendship and not just being used as a convenient resource to be exploited. She can declare how many good friends she has in the midst of not overburdening them, whilst you are putting up with shouldering the problems and not getting much joy out of it.

Not only is it unfair, it can serve over time, an erosion of self esteem. Especially as I glean from your posts, its not something you are happy about, but you are putting up with it.

If I could go back in time and change things, I would have expressed my feelings more from early on. In a friendship, id expect to be able to express these sorts of feelings you have written here - to her directly, and be part of the one who starts to craft boundaries to what has been defined as a "cool friendship". I.e- its going to be dyadic form of "cool" for you as much as her.

[hopefulbutlost17]

 I completely agree with you.  I'm not as important to her as her other friends are. I am no longer being idealized.  My only concern in expressing my feelings or asking her "why me, why not your other friends?" is a bout of discarding.  In other words, I have been wanting to tell her these things, but I fear her reaction (when I know I shouldn't).  As a matter of fact, one night she did message me saying she couldn't sleep and wanted to go home as she was staying a friend's house. I told her to wake her friend up to let her out and her response was "that would be rude" but waking me up to tell me you can't sleep isn't.  That's when it clicked for me and I realized 110% her friends are being idealized.

I relate to you when you say it was your responsibility to make your boundaries known.  I try to set them, but then they blur.  

She wants the best of both worlds... That's her definition of a "cool friendship". Completely different with mine.  I don't cuddle with my friends, sleep half naked with them, call them lovey dovey nicknames, etc. According to her, that's okay.  I've made that clear every time we visit the "i want to be friends" topic

How would I go about telling my ex "why me? why not call your other friends" without sparking up a huge fight?

[hopefulbutlost17]

 Yes, my counselor is pointing these things out. Quite mindblowing...
I guess you can say that, yeah. I know I want a r/s. I know I cannot be friends with her the way she wants me to be and vice versa. That is what I do know.