Is lying a symptom of BPD

[conflicted55]

Just caught my SO out on another lie. She is not very assertive and describes herself as pliable. She can lie so easily and it seems impossible to catch her out.

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[Radcliff]

Just caught my SO out on another lie. She is not very assertive and describes herself as pliable. She can lie so easily and it seems impossible to catch her out.

I found my pwBPD to be a very good liar, and a very good detector of the lies of others.  In her specific case, I believe it goes hand-in-hand with her BPD, but don't know enough to generalize to others.  Perhaps other members can join with their experiences.

You may be able to learn patterns of your pwBPD's lies.  In my case, I learned that she often would misrepresent the feelings of others, saying that they supported her on some issue, or were mad at me about something, when my experience with them was completely different.  Another thing is that she'd add small convincing details to support her lies, so when I noticed a few details from her in a convincing pattern, it alerted me to be wary.  I'm not suggesting that becoming a perfect lie detector yourself is the answer, though.  I think living with a pwBPD may simply involve us coming to terms with the fact that they do not have as reliable a relationship with the truth as we wish they did.

RC

[wendydarling]

Just caught my SO out on another lie. She is not very assertive and describes herself as pliable. She can lie so easily and it seems impossible to catch her out.

What was the lie?  Does your SO have a strong family base who understand and are supporting her? Or is she on her own?

WDx

[conflicted55]

Wendydarling,
I suspect SO parent is BPD/NPD. Supports her when it suits. Controls her with money. Very enmeshed relationship but SO does not feel they are close. She feels her brother is the golden child and she is the scapegoat. Do not think they know she has BPD. She is a quiet high functioning borderline.

Lied about when she was transported back across town and with whom . Bit more complicated then that but don't wish to put more detail. Indicates that she is being unfaithful/has moved onto another ie her ex.

[Radcliff]

How long have you been together?  Are you living together?

[conflicted55]

Have been together 2 years with mainly living together in one residence for the first year and a half. Known her as a friend 15 years.

[once removed]

has she lied as long as youve known her? big or small lies? both?

i wouldnt say lying is a symptom of BPD. i would say there are BPD-centric reasons/motivations for lying.

[DivDad]

In my experience, my uBPDxw lied all the time.   And very good at it. Could have been an Academy Award nominee.  Lied when she didn't have to lie.  Lied to get out of a situation.  Lied constantly to the children, and friends.   Deflected the situation when caught in a lie. Lied to spin a situation or event.  Lied to get out of a lie. I do believe they actually believe what they are saying is the truth.  Or something near the truth.  Eventually, you just have to accept the fact that what they say is either not truthful, or just a piece of the truth. Nothing is straight forward.  Sadly, if they don't seek T, assume what they say is untruthful.

[wendydarling]

i wouldnt say lying is a symptom of BPD. i would say there are BPD-centric reasons/motivations for lying.

I agree. In my case, my BPDDD30 does not out right lie anymore than any nonBPD, that's before and after therapy.

I can see why, she leading you to think she's being unfaithful. Then again she may not being unfaithful, quite often people go to ex's just to talk, be understood, especially when confused. Do you know the ex?

[mssalty]

In my experience, yes.   And because the lies were over things that seemed so outrageous to lie about, you don't realize they are lies because you think "why would they lie about that." 

The problem for me is that I don't want to accuse anyone without concrete evidence, and often the lies are not the kind of thing that can be proved.   My SO always has justification for behavior, opinion, etc.   I can't tell you how many times I've heard "my friend's husbands never" or "ask any therapist, they'll tell you that... ."   

For years I felt the power of gaslighting where I would swear that something that I was told happened hadn't happened.  I didn't remember stuff that was said.  Arguments went down completely different than I remembered.  Things I supposedly did I didn't remember doing.  After a particularly bad spell, I wound up here and saw BPD, and the pieces fell into place.   

I don't think that in most cases they think they're lying.  They're defending themselves using something they believe.  And because they are so committed, it's nearly impossible to catch an outright lie.  And if you do, you'll find the situation spun in another direction so quickly you won't be able to catch up. 

[conflicted55]

wendydarling,
I know of the ex. We met once when she turned up at SO house unexpectedly when my SO disclosed that she had been in contact with the ex behind  my back for 4 months. My SO chose her ex over me and then spent the next two weeks bombarding me with txts declaring her undying love. I took her back. I have had a feeling for awhile that she is back in contact with the ex. and I wonder if the ex has been bombarding my SO with presents. Yes my SO is fickle.

[Bnonymous]

Mine lies to the extent that it borders on pathological. Sometimes he lies out of embarrassment. Sometimes he lies to ___ stir and get revenge on those he perceives have wronged him. Sometimes he lies in what he thinks is self-defense. Sometimes he lies because he's afraid of losing me. Sometimes he lies to test people (usually me). But there is barely a day, and certainly not a week, without at least one lie from him.

I'm not second-guessing his motives here - he has explained them to me himself in retrospect. He usually admits the lies and the motivations for them at some point afterwards. Sometimes he confesses within a day or two. Other times he keeps the lies going for months before he admits the truth. I would guess that there are some lies he has never confessed to (but, of course, I can't be sure about those ones).

The "testing me" lies are the worst. He's told me he's cheated on me when he actually hasn't (yes, I'm sure he hasn't) - his explanation was that he wanted to see if I'd be bothered, because, if I wasn't bothered, it would "prove" that I must be doing it too... .A couple of times he's pretended that he's in hospital to find out how worried I'd be, in order to see whether or not I really cared about him. A couple of times he's pretended he's in trouble to see whether I'd care enough to help him (for example, once he told me he was stranded somewhere and had had his wallet stolen, then admitted he'd made it up to "test" me when I got to the place to help him and found he wasn't actually there... .).

Then there's the gaslighting "I never said/did this" type of lies (which could be dissociation in some cases, but, with him, he later admits he denied it out of embarrassment or paranoia). These ones are worst in text messages or emails, because he gets paranoid that I'll use anything he writes as "evidence" (I don't know who he thinks I'd show them to), so he'll accuse me of vile things and pretend he never did vile things - with these ones, he admits the truth as soon as we're face-to-face "I had to pretend it was you, cos it's evidence when it's in writing" kind of thing. ___ like this.

[conflicted55]

Bnonymous,

Mine lies to the extent that it borders on pathological. Sometimes he lies out of embarrassment. Sometimes he lies to ___ stir and get revenge on those he perceives have wronged him.
I can identify with this as I am aware my SO has a vindictive vengeful side which she has recounted to me setting an ex up and getting her revenge. That was a huge red flag.

The "testing me" lies are the worst. He's told me he's cheated on me when he actually hasn't (yes, I'm sure he hasn't) - his explanation was that he wanted to see if I'd be bothered, because, if I wasn't bothered, it would "prove" that I must be doing it too... .

I have wondered if my SO has deliberately wanted me to think she is cheating at times. but she has a reputation for being a player so who knows.

Then there's the gaslighting "I never said/did this" type of lies (which could be dissociation in some cases, but, with him, he later admits he denied it out of embarrassment or paranoia). These ones are worst in text messages or emails, because he gets paranoid that I'll use anything he writes as "evidence" (I don't know who he thinks I'd show them to), so he'll accuse me of vile things and pretend he never did vile things - with these ones, he admits the truth as soon as we're face-to-face "I had to pretend it was you, cos it's evidence when it's in writing" kind of thing. ___ like this.

I have definitely experienced the gaslighting. It is an insidious form of abuse.

[Bnonymous]

Yeah, gaslighting can be really abusive and can mess with our heads. *sympathises*.

Generally, it's sad to not have that basic trust in your partner to believe the things they say. I remember reading somewhere (can't remember if it was here or in one of the BPD books) that it can help to let yourself grieve for what you wanted in the relationship and haven't received - I followed that advice and grieved for the trust and honesty that's missing, and I felt a lot better and more able to handle things after I let myself feel those feelings. Now I appreciate the trust and honesty that we do have when he finally volunteers the truth - I don't know how I'd handle being with someone who kept the lies up indefinitely. It's hard not knowing what to believe.

[wendydarling]

wendydarling,
I know of the ex. We met once when she turned up at SO house unexpectedly when my SO disclosed that she had been in contact with the ex behind  my back for 4 months. My SO chose her ex over me and then spent the next two weeks bombarding me with txts declaring her undying love. I took her back. I have had a feeling for awhile that she is back in contact with the ex. and I wonder if the ex has been bombarding my SO with presents. Yes my SO is fickle.

Then am I right that if she comes back it's the same recycle? How do you feel about that? You've some excellent input from members here, I'm learning a lot   

[conflicted55]

Wendydarling,

Then am I right that if she comes back it's the same recycle? How do you feel about that?   

Not sure I know what you mean? do you mean if she comes back to me it will be the same recycle?
The same recycle as she is recycling the ex at the moment? Sorry if I'm being abit thick here. My mind is so exhausted.