The 4am text was a good thing

[1stTimer]

Then the 4 AM text. 

BTW the 4am text was a good thing not a bad one. I just reached out since I realized it might look like *I* was the one going silent since her text was the last one "I don't want to make you sad". The moment she got off the plane (still thinking of me after an 18 hour trip).

My text was 4pm my time not remembering 12 hours ahead. So it is a *good* thing she replied at 4am and a good thing it was a minute later and GREAT thing it was an immediate "Thank you so much. Please connect to me on weChat at ###". That is good stuff, she could have ignored or sulked or just said he's out of my life and 7,500 miles away I can just stay silent and poof. But she invited me BACK into weChat. I don't know if I'd do that to someone who deleted me without making them go through some serious hoops if at all.

AND it is a great sign she replied the MINUTE I connected and w/o preamble started addressing her issues; being more patient with her language challenges and what the heck was this text.

So I'm not the only one still somehow connected to this insane relationship that involves maybe 100 words (most of them the same, and a few dozen texts and a relatively small amount of physical intimacy) and now literally 1/2 world and 1/2 year apart. I mean it is pretty much a miracle.

[Skip]

I asked you a while back to look into your schema.  I think it would help. We all have multiple personalities that we live in. One for normal times - others for times of stress. Often the dysfunctional habits are caught up in our stress personalities.

You have some "go to" reactions that are not serving you well and you have "gone to" these in two different relationships. It's more that losing cool, 1T.  It has to do with very fundamental beliefs about human nature and about how you cope with adversity.

These things (your "go to") are infinitely fixable, but you have to see them and work them.

BTW the 4am text was a good thing not a bad one.

This isolating of events, rather than looking at the totality of the situation, often has you flip flopping between  "what a troubled human being she is" to "deep down, she really cares deeply for me".

Focus on the latest trajectory. Focus on the totality of the situation. The reality of the last 7 days has been you having conflict with her and the translator as she left the country and after. She's 7,500 miles away for a few months and says she needs space. The translator says her feelings have waned. She didn't reply to your last communication.

This is not where you were 8 days ago when she was in your mothers kitchen. This is not where you were on September 29th. Those days are an important part of your history but so are the events of this last week. Every transaction counts and the most recent are more telling than those of 2 months ago.

You are in a different place with her today. Given everything that has happened and been said in the last 30 days - particularly the last 7 - how would describe that?

[1stTimer]

I'm isolating the last communication not cherry picking. She replied immediately from China after a week's break. At 4am. Invited me to weChat. Initiated a conversation (which could as easily been had on her text and isolated from 'her life'). It was about her concerns. She has not replied yet. She has not cut me off either. I have no idea where she is or where we are. Again: she is 1/2 around the world and could easily have cut me off, ignored me. Scolded me. Made me wait. Seen my text and said 'oh him again'. She did not. She replied in an instant, 1/2 around the world, at 4am and invited me back into her world. And initiated a conversation and shared her screenshots that she had waiting. It is on her mind. I am on her mind.

Why she has not replied I do not know. Processing? Translating (it took her a week to translate my love letter). Fitting it into to her clearly busy family/social scene? I do not know.

I don't know WHAT her translator knows or does not. One day we have an amazing connection one day it is her feeling waned. I think he knows and understands little, he is a 25 year old kid. I should have kept that in mind.

So all I have to go on Skip is

1) She made the time on her last friday to meet my mother and it was not only important but by her reaction momentous and joyous. That ain't because my mom is such a charmer. I mean she IS but it isn't what made her so happy she had to repeat it all night and follow me into the kitchen and invite me to be with her and text me 6 times after AND invite me out.

2) Despite any issue she had she text me a) before she boarded and b) after she landed. She didn't tell me "tell your mother I love her" because she loves my mother she doesn't KNOW my mother. It was a message to me.

3) She replied to a text a week later, safe 1/2 around the world, with my only contact her NY # which will be disconnected soon and I lose ALL hope of ever finding her in the center of China, in 1 minute in the week hours of the night and IMMEDIATLY  gave me her weChat to get me back into her life, immediatly addressed her 'you are angry and sad' issue.

4) When I joined her weChat she IMMEDIATLY, at 4am, addressed her 'understand me more' and what does this text mean.

I think this says a lot. I'm not isolating events from September. If her feelings had 'waned' she wouldn't be wasting time texting before the plane and after and the moment I text a week later. She clearly is not some school marm in a small town with ten men. She's at the top of the social scene in Chendgu and wherever she goes, with access to men and parties of the highest order. And she still is in contact with me.

Not sure what your looking for me to 'deduce' from this. I see a girl as connected to this as I am, conflicted for different reasons. Outside of the same ones as me, hers are my reactive state which conflcits with the strong supportive accepting makes her feel safe gentleman she is so attracted to. Got it. Need to work on it. MINE is the selfish narcissistic woman unable to fathom what my challenges may be versus the woman who takes 1/2 a day to pray for me, can't eat or sleep worried about me, and waits two weeks to share a text from her friends regarding their inability to invest because she does not want to ruin my mood or confidence for a meeting.

So SHE has some work to do too. I get I do. I really do.

So far she has dealt with my issues exactly TWICE: Break up after cancelling on me over and over for 2 1/2 weeks. weChat delete after basically walking out on our last dinner together. That is IT.

Here is the totality of the situation; I met a Chinese woman from a very wealthy family with deep family and friendship and business connections who has travelled the world from end to end and blew her mind. As she blew mine. With nary a word between us. It got amazing very fast for both of us. She gave me support and caring I have had once in my life, I gave her support and caring she never experienced.

She got SCARED the moment she pushed for a last month and decided to protect her heart. She did not tell me. She could not because of language and I'll guess culture. She made sure to make sure her friends still let me know how important I was but still kept her distance confusing me.

I dealt with it well until I did not and broke up with her assuming it was not real.

She distanced, in part because I betrayed the thing she liked most about me, she could always trust me to protect her. I distanced in part because she betrayed the thing I like most about her, she'd always support me.

I reached out with a love letter, it was important enough for her to bring the son of her best friend in the world (likely appraised of the situation since the beginning) and after all her soft issues were dealt with (age, other women) told me the real one; she had not been introduced to my parents, which is huge in China.

I did that and it was amazing. To my mother, to me and most especially her. Enough so to make her gush about it and invite me with her hand on my heart to be with her in her home as she has invited me to a dozen times but never like this. The subtext was "thank you. you addressed my biggest fear. we can move forward now".

She was so happy she invited me to have dinner with her and she was clear "just you and me" i.e. we are back to that.

I overstepped the connection instead of just being cool and pushe her back a step and then over-reacted to her pulling back a step. She got upset and scared, I got upset and scared, we both handled it poorly.

For whatever reason though, despite alll this and despite the language and now despite the 7,500 miles I still texted her and she still immediatly replied. This girl I can't speak a word to, who I've somehow managed to have two big fights with anyhow, who is rich beyond belief and knows unless my biz works am broke, whom I have not made love to now in two months, who could cut me off with a push of a button is still jumping at the chance at 4 in the morning.

I see this all as being amazing and great.

I believe my FUNDAMENTAL beliefs about human nature serve me well as do my instincts. I think my reactions based on the last 15 years do not. I think my isolation and lack of love and support and foundation create a hysteria when the opportunity for them is challenged and I need to learn to just back off and react later. But again if I'd listened to the advice I'd have gotten her some trinket (not being offensive just summarizing) and written this off as a summer fling. And you must see by now this was not. We are both still hat in the ring.

So I'm sticking with my narratives as I think they serve me well. What I need, as I've said, are tools that let me deal with the freak outs when things don't go as I'd hoped, and not to lash out in pain. My personality test basically siad just this; a very secure relationship personality except in times of great duress when it is subpar.

So to your question about the last 7 days: one would expect this to be finito no? Big bad dinner, she flies out to China and her Gucci/Ferrari lifestyle, champagne dreams, who cares about the sullen NY boy who can't pay his rent. Yet: here she is answering at 4am the moment he reaches out. Where was I 21 days ago? Mad at my break up? Yet there she was in a bar two miles from her home with some kid translating for her. 14 days ago? In my mothers house, 90 minutes from her house on her last Friday in the country with 3 businesses afloat, meeting my mother.

Wherever we were on September 29th that still exists for both of us clearly. Neither of us wants to let go of it. My only play left is to let her figure that out. If I don't hear from her the plan is to send my letter. If I do to listen. I'm going to say I have not hear the end of this.

[1stTimer]

As a related aside; the last girl has been reaching out, clearly waiting for me to now initiate some contact. 7 months later. The Doctor Girl is in contact but not interested, I think her purpose was to show me conversation is highly over-rated.

[1stTimer]

Every transaction counts and the most recent are more telling than those of 2 months ago.

Most recent then:

Text me right before her 18 hour trip and right after.

Replied  from China  after a week of silence from me in 1 minute to a text at 4am to her soon to be disconnected US #.

Happily thanked me, gave me access again to her weChat which as she says is the # she will "always use" vs my being "coco"  and using a # that will soon be gone forever.

Replied in an instant to weChat and jumped right into her issues. "Please try to understand me more" "What does this mean".

I read this as good. Silence since I can't determine but since my answer was good and since if he'd shared my comments or they'd pushed her away I'd be off weChat like that <snap> I'll say I'm still very much in the game.

If she goes dark in the next week I'll know it is "over". Otherwise radio silence from me, if no word a letter from me mid-December.

Meanwhile I do my daily Mandarin.

[once removed]

If she goes dark in the next week I'll know it is "over".

are you sure that would be the right conclusion? is it possible she would be taking some space, catching up with friends, readjusting to her location?

[Skip]

Text me right before her 18 hour trip and right after.

Replied  from China  after a week of silence from me in 1 minute to a text at 4am to her soon to be disconnected US #.

Happily thanked me, gave me access again to her weChat which as she says is the # she will "always use" vs my being "coco"  and using a # that will soon be gone forever.

Replied in an instant to weChat and jumped right into her issues. "Please try to understand me more" "What does this mean".

There are the some missing events, 1T.  The sullen dinner, her bailing out early, the last visual was you walking off angry, blocking her wechat, not invited to going away dinner,  her asking for space, you accusing her of 1/2 truths, the conflict (2) with translator, translator saying the relationship is waning, the "F***" text?

Are these events inconsequential - no effect on the state of things?

Try to stay with the totality of the situation... .you often to cherry pick, adopt very high expectations, get upset when they are not met, lash out/over-react.  Break this cycle.

But again if I'd listened to the advice I'd have gotten her some trinket (not being offensive just summarizing) and written this off as a summer fling.

The words fling, trinket and bauble were words you selected - that was not the advice.

Fling - a meaningless sexual relationship Trinket - a small ornament or item of jewelry that is of little value. Bauble - lacking in significance or solid worth

When a relationship is buckling under its own weight, generally speaking, adding more weight is not a good idea. Taking weight off is. That was the suggestion.

This advice was to look at this as a "summer vacation love" (exact words) and give her a touching gift (not a trinket or bauble) to keep your spirit present in her day-to-day life. She was backing away at the time, you had broken up with her, and the relationship was burdened with expectations and pressure.  The idea was to totally shift gears from demanding time that she wasn't giving to making the time she would give to be enchanting; to take down the feelings of vulnerability that was pushing you two apart at the time and replace it with happy carefree feelings, romantic feelings.  To put in place a memory for her to embrace and entice her while she was gone. You knew she was coming back in January.

Would it be a bad place to be right now? A framed picture of the two of laughing together on 4th Avenue as the leaves fall (to use your imagery) sitting in her bedroom. Seeing her off at the airport (or the restaurant), one last look in her eyes? A last smile. An intriguing tease - will there be more?  

And maybe the fairy-tale continues or maybe life gobbles it up. "Summer vacation love".

No one is saying what you needed do - this was just an idea to consider.

[1stTimer]

are you sure that would be the right conclusion? is it possible she would be taking some space, catching up with friends, readjusting to her location?

Nope  My conclusions here are all over the place I get it. I do believe she is catching up (after 6 months away from family and friends and business and clearly a very social AND business oriented person), readjusting and taking some space.

She clearly was thinking about me/us and primed for a few things;

1) Get me back on weChat
2) Tell me (from her perspective at least) she wished for me to stop being angry and unhappy. I believe at least part of her knows she holds some responsibility for that
3) To ask me to please make a better effort to understand her
4) To get clarity on what the accidental text with f***** meant

I believe I addressed all of these well. I believe I'm not blocked or deleted.

I think space is good (for me as well).

No matter what happens (other than being blocked) I have a very nice letter written, super non-triggering, super non-romantic. A couple stories about me as a kid in Holland in my father's commericials, with a few pictures thrown in. Not of me even. For instance I mentioned I got paid for my work in a dutch Chocalate 'M' and added a picture of that, and that I was in a scene with a white horse that walked out of the woods and found a picture of that.

I had it translated so I can send her the English and Chinese versions. Which will help with her English.

In any event my plan is to let things cool off and send that. because that is all my idea ever was. I even told The Kid that when he asked at translation 'can she have a few days to decide if she wants to continue the realtionship when she leaves' "She doesn't have to decide anything. I'm not pushing for anything. I just wan't to know if she feels as I do we have something special between us, we can figure out the rest". To which he replied (after talking to her) "Yes you have something very special. And she would still very much like for you to come live with her in Chengdu for a month or two".

So that is pretty much where I am at when stop spinning around.

Thanks OR!

[1stTimer]

There are the some missing events, 1T.  The sullen dinner, her bailing out early, the last visual was you walking off angry, blocking her wechat, not invited to going away dinner,  her asking for space, you accusing her of 1/2 truths, the conflict (2) with translator, translator saying the relationship is waning, the "F***" text?

You appeared to be asking what happened in the last 7 days, I was answering. I get these all have signficance. But then so does EVERYTHING. And all have effect an on the state of things?

If she is going to take time and space to think, she has the totality to not only remember but all our texts and pictures as well. And the totality is a man who made her fanstatically happy and feel fantastically safe and wanted and protected and taken care of for weeks, who was 'the nicest person she ever met' and 'cared more for her than any person she'd ever met', who sent her two love letters and surprised her with flowers, whose mother she met and loved which was so important to her.

On balance she has me being reactive twice. She knows at least once was not w/o cause as she apologized profusely for canceling on me and said "You are a remarkable man! You are an extraordinary gentleman".

Point being I can either cherry pick, take the last interaction, take the last week, take the last month or take the whole thing.

I'd imagine part of her 'space' is doing the latter.

When a relationship is buckling under its own weight, generally speaking, adding more weight is not a good idea. Taking weight off is. That was the suggestion.

Would it be a bad place to be right now? A framed picture of the two of laughing together on 4th Avenue as the leaves fall (to use your imagery) sitting in her bedroom. Seeing her off at the airport (or the restaurant), one last look in her eyes? A last smile. An intriguing tease - will there be more?  

Certainly not Skip. I just did not trust that simply saying nothing, sending no letter, and giving her that picture would result in that. My take at the time was (and this is largely confirmed) she was terrified of getting to close and getting hurt. My take on THAT was that it was because she thought it would end with us both at "can't live without each other" and I wanted to make sure she knew I would come to her and I'd wait i.e. she could keep her heart open w/o fear of me breaking it.

My letter to her re that was quite non-threatening and gave her the space to walk away for good of walk away and think. I literally said to her "I am just leaving a door open for you to walk through". Versus her leaving believing I was the one who wouldn't want her.  It is not lost on me that early on she would ask over and over again (amazingly): "YOU like ME?" "Yes" "REALLY? REALLLLY?" In amazement. And the first time we were with her girlfriend that was what she wanted to know "Why? Why do you like me? What do you like about me?"

So my take was that she needed not space but assurance and a door to walk through. Not that the relationship needed more space.

It all went beautifully well until the dinner which I think is both of our faults. Yeah I could have been prepared and less reactive. Very hard after the 6 weeks I endured with the ups and the downs.

Have I sullied the waters with intensity? Without a doubt and I need to learn how to deal with things better. But I've also added a lot of beauitful layers to the relationship from the highly meaningful dinner with my mother (which I never would have had or known to have without pushing the issue), the beautiful and renewed invitation, the 'clarity' this is very special to both of us, her clarity finally of "Yes I like YOU" and want what she has asked for since the beginning.

So I'm not sure if I'm in a better or worse spot than just having left it and giving her a sweet gift with none of the rest. I guess time will tell.

[1stTimer]

The idea was to totally shift gears from demanding time that she wasn't giving to making the time she would give to be enchanting; to take down the feelings of vulnerability that was pushing you two apart at the time and replace it with happy carefree feelings, romantic feelings.  To put in place a memory for her to embrace and entice her while she was gone. You knew she was coming back in January.

Perhaps I misread as this was the moment I stopped participating since we were in far different camps. The idea as I read it was to *accept* this was a summer romance that both of us needed and had little chance of success and write it off with a nice memory for her to always remember us by. Which I rejected because if I let her walk never knowing how I feel and thinking I was simply saying "That was great I'll always remember it" then as a woman and a Chinese one at that she would never reach back out to me. So I decided to do a GG and let her know. Other than last dinner it went exceedingly well.

[1stTimer]

are you sure that would be the right conclusion? is it possible she would be taking some space, catching up with friends, readjusting to her location?

Oh hey OR. I realized what I meant here sorry: "Go dark" means if she blocks or deletes me. Not if she doesn't reply yet.

Not replying I'll take as space and time. In other words, she reached out immediately when I texted since these were clearly things on her mind (good news!) and asked for some clarification and understanding. Since I replied pretty well and clarified the text to her, I'll take the fact she did not follow-up OR block me OR slam me as a good sign. Or not a bad sign :|

Now I let her think about the 'totality' if she wants and do the same. Radio Silence.

I might if it snows in NY next week or so take a picture of the lake in central park we first walked around covered in snow and text that alone.

And in mid-December or so ask her if we can start exchanging letters like we discussed.

[Skip]

Perhaps I misread as this was the moment I stopped participating since we were in far different camps.

That's unfortunate. Even after the "GG", I think you now see that this approach would have served you well when you had your last date.

[Skip]

Try to stay with the totality of the situation... .you often to cherry pick events, adopt very high expectations from them, get upset when they are not met, lash out/over-react.  

Break this cycle.

In the interest of breaking the cycle... .

I would think that "exceedingly well" would look more like keeping your head when things cooled a bit, making the time she had for you and her friends fun, taking at least one evening to talk about "things" that would make you both feel better about the relationship, have a visit with your mom, attend her going away party as part of her circle, part on an up beat with some sense of reconnecting when she comes back in January. That would be my definition of exceedingly well.

I think the current situation might be better characterized as tenuous. While things might have slowed down a bit with her 4 weeks ago, she was still planning a lunch with you before the breakup. Afterward you two only saw each other three times - the last of which had the overtones of another breakup (e.g., walking away, blocking her social media, terse conversations with her friend/translator). You've had little meaningful conversation with her since she left, but the last communication was upsetting to her and she has not replied to it. Yes, she liked your mom/family unit, yes she is not expressing anger or blocking you on social media. That is good. At the same time, a lot of difficult things have transpired and you two are not even close to talking about them. Tenuous.

Why do I bring this up?  Because I see you shifting yourself into that high expectation mode again, and if things don't go as you expect them, you will get very hurt and lash out. Possibly the solution is not so much to catch yourself when you are in emotional free fall, but to  not set yourself up for disappointment/hurt to begin with.

Think about this. When she said she was staying an extra month and you would have more time together, the event that caused you to blow up the relationship was that you set a high expectation and she did not meet it.  The same thing happened in the last dinner - you had a very high expectation, she did meet it, you went into a negative stage that lasted for days.

I like the idea of the translated letter - I suggested it - but is a story about your childhood going to connect or is it going to fall flat like your recital on 4th Avenue?  There is a time and place for these things and over-reaching into a tenuous situation often makes matter worse. This is the mirror image of where you where with your last girlfriend when you sent her what you called "the grand gesture" and then went into free fall when she referred to it as a "nice note". If you remember, her mindset was more about wanting to clear the air than hearing romantic words from you.

There is a pattern here. It might help to see it.

XL has a lot to be concerned about and to think about. There are a lot of messy loose ends right now. She told your mother that there were issues to be addressed - and that was before the going away dinner fall out. She expressed some of those with the translator and you rejected them as 1/2 truths. Your relationship with the primary conduit for a serious conversation with her has been sullied, too.

I'm not trying to make this feel hopeless, I'm trying to point you to the reality of the situation (trajectory) so that you can speak and take actions in tune with the your audience. If I was her, I would be wondering who you are? The guy from the first 2 months or the guy from the last 30 days? I'd be wondering if the future is going to be emotionally chaotic and demanding? I'd be wondering if you are going over boundaries and "get into it" with other friends that I introduce you to. I'd be wondering what you are telling your friends about me (after seeing that text).

Does this make sense?

Her last serious message to you was "I am not a teenager and can't make decisions based on passion and feelings. [There are] serious issues like language, culture, distance. I need time and space." It's important to hear her. It's important to be in tune with the reality of what has happened.

What action (or non-action) fits with a person saying this and with the loose ends that are out there?  I think that is the issue before you.

[1stTimer]

In the interest of breaking the cycle... .

I would think that "exceedingly well" would look more like keeping your head when things cooled a bit, making the time she had for you and her friends fun, taking at least one evening to talk about "things" that would make you both feel better about the relationship, have a visit with your mom, attend her going away party as part of her circle, part on an up beat with some sense of reconnecting when she comes back in January. That would be my definition of exceedingly well.

Allow me to elaborate. I do NOT think things are exceedling well now at all. I think they were so at the mother's dinner. I was there in the kitchen you were not. Where WE blew it was the last night. I over-reacted to some seriously uncool behavior.  I am in WM's camp here that she had business associates related to her husband in from out of town and could not begin to invite me.

Why do I bring this up?  Because I see you shifting yourself into that high expectation mode again, and if things don't go as you expect them, you will get very hurt and lash out. Possibly the solution is not so much to catch yourself when you are in emotional free fall, but to  not set yourself up for disappointment/hurt to begin with.

Ah I live to set myself up for disapppointment Skip, it is one reason I have successes. I just need to handle the disappointments better since they've mounted up.

I would not characterize myself as high expectations at all. I am extremely leery about where she may be and where she may have BEEN already. It was already up in the air whether she was scared of getting hurt or losing interest.  I have had two entirely different messages from 'The Kid' about this both at the translation and after.  Pulling away because she can't just follow her passion and feelings and has to see if they fit realistically into the challenges is a far different thing than the things he said that night.

Think about this. When she said she was staying an extra month and you would have more time together, the event that caused you to blow up the relationship was that you set a high expectation and she did not meet it.  The same thing happened in the last dinner - you had a very high expectation, she did meet it, you went into a negative stage that lasted for days.

I get it. I also get OTHER people have a role in this. I can't just have relationships where I accept anything people want to hand out when they want. If I had told a girl we'd make plans for the month and how excited I was to have a whole month to be with them, after the type of courtship SHE threw out, I'd be on sorry man if I ditched her for the entire month because I was scared of being hurt and never said a word and let her just suffer in silence.

If I had done the whole mother thing and then invited her out to a last dinner 'just you and me ' and been withdrawn and preoccupied and called an Uber 1/2 through, said "see ya next year!" and then said the next day "But I had important business to do, I am very busy and tired!" I'd be jerk of the highest order.

I didn't create expectations out of thin air, I did so on the promises and interactions of a person I was having a relationship with. Who ALSO as an adult has some responsibility besides my just swinging to and fro as as not to cause them any angst.

There is not a person, man or woman, whose expectations would not have been through the roof based on where we were and what he said before and then during her 'whole month together' and not a person who would not have been crushed by the other parties behavior and not a person who should not be able to see what they did.

I didn't buy a lottery ticket and start spending the money.

And I'm simply unwilling to enter these things and deal with them as I am the only adult.  I'm not on trial. I'm not on probation. I'm not on my knees begging for a chance.

I gave her what she wanted, in fact September would rightly be characterized as HER courting ME and coming on STRONG.

So I had expectations based on what she said she wanted
.

I like the idea of the translated letter - I suggested it - but is this going to connect or is it going to fall flat like your recital on 4th Avenue?  There is a time and place for these things and over-reaching into a tenuous situation often makes matter worse. This is the mirror image of where you where with your last girlfriend when you sent her what you called "the grand gesture" and then went into free fall when she referred to it as a "nice note". If you remember, her mindset was more about wanting to clear the air than hearing romantic words from you.

Honestly I'd love to keep the last girl out of this. She was NOT my girlfriend and there is little resemblance to this one. I made an ill-advised Grand Gesture to a woman I did not even like for all the wrong reasons. She didn't want to clear the air. She got what she wanted already.

My "Grand Gesture" went quite well here. My reaction to the dinner did not. That was caused by two parties not one. And XL has a lot of thinking to do about HER behavior.

XL has a lot to be concerned about and to think about. There are a lot of messy loose ends right now. She told your mother that there were issues to be addressed - and that was before the going away dinner fall out

.
No. It was after. When my mother, at my insistence (since she wanted to return the clothes and make sure she knew since she too was appalled by the behavior) kept the clothes and wrote a thank you letter I drafted. Because she mentioned "I know you and my son are having difficult conversations I just wanted to interject a thank you bla bla", XL wrapped up her (multiple) thank you with something to the efffect of "I am sure your son and I will work out our problems".

She expressed some of those with the translator and you rejected them as 1/2 truths. Your relationship with the primary conduit for a serious conversation with her has been sullied, too.

I rejected them as not containing the whole truth yes. Because it is disinegenous to say "She decided to not further the relationship so neither of you would get to close and have to leave one another as "I can't live without you".  That is a whole truth 6 weeks ago. And a whole truth if I was told. It is not a whole truth if I am told this when she is boarding a plane, never said a word to me, and kept me believing nothing was wrong,  had nothing to worry about, she wanted me in Chengdu, she wanted to meet my mother. It is not the whole truth when 10 days earlier we sat down and she mentioned through him all her issues (other women, age, my mother). I have every right to tell him I cannot reply to him because my only choice is to a) accept that that happened and I was given ANY indication or b) give him the facts she chose not to share.

I'm not trying to make this feel hopeless, I'm trying to point you to the reality of the situation (trajectory) so that you can speak and take actions in tune with the your audience. If I was her, I would be wondering who you are? The guy from the first 2 months or the guy from the last 30 days? I'd be wondering if the future is going to be emotionally chaotic and demanding? I'd be wondering if you are going over boundaries and "get into it" with other friends that I introduce you to. I'd be wondering what you are telling your friends about me (after seeing that text).

Great. I wondering who SHE is. Is she the amazing supportive woman from the first two months or the woman who makes decisions that serve only her needs and doesnt' even recognize the impact on me. I am wondering if she is or can take any of the actions I am taking to understand why I may have BEEN angry or unhappy. I am wondering why she couldn't find a way to say these things directly to me and find a better way to translate rather than involving a friend. I didn''t 'get into it' with other friends. She INSISTED I take his weChat profile for clearly precisely this reason. I didn't ask for his contact info.

Here last serious message to you was "I am not a teenager and can't make decisions based on passion and feelings. [There are] serious issues like language, culture, distance. I need time and space."

What action (or non-action) fits with a person saying this and with the loose ends that are out there?  I think that is the issue before you.

All I can do is give her the time and the space. The choice in front of me is whether to reach out at all or just let her disappear and figure it out.

I get your points here Skip but I simply refuse to consider a relationship where it is just my constantly changing my expectations or behavior based on somene else's needs and whims. That is not a relationship.

Totality in a sentence is it is her behavior which is out of line and needs to be examined. I reacted, true. But I am not considering myself on probation trying to prove to her I'm "stable". If she doesn't get that she is on probabtion for me I can't help it.

I don't want this so bad I'll take it at any cost and certainly 'proving' myself to her is not something I need to do.  Unless what I'm proving is that whatever you do however you act however little you give I'll always be a rock for you. Nuh uh.

If she is wondering if I'm the 'rock' she met that always took care of her and never got mad I'm wondering if she is the rock I met that had my back and cared about my safety and happiness. Right now I don't see that at all. So you can keep painting this as me having to prove something to her I think I've done more than quite enough. I'll give her her space and she can figure it out or not.  Let her come on this board and say "What did I do?". I've spent dozens of hours doing that for a girl I've honored and cared for in a transformative way. And reacted when she disrespected that. Can I work on that? Sure. Let me ask you this; if I had reacted differently after multiple rude and hurtful cancellations, rude dismissiveness at a last supper and an uber 1/2 through with a smile and kiss, what kind of relationship would I have? Not one I want.

I simply refuse to get painted here as someone who has anything to make up for or apologize for. I gave her everything she wanted including my mother. I looked at her age and told her it didn't matter and her makeup-less picture and told her SHE was beautiful to me. I'm guarantee you in China that doens't happen to 54 year old divorced women.

I have no expectations now. Other than remembering who she WAS and hte few moments at my mother's house, I have grave grave doubts about her. Let her consider her behavior and that. I'll let her go on her own and see what she comes up with.  I'll work on not being reactive. But you know what; when people act s**** it is hard not to and I'm loathe to really figure out what I did wrong when someone else acted s****. I've been doing that here for a month or more.

[1stTimer]

For what it is worth, she replied on weChat to my last three replies to her request for an explanation:

"Thank you very much. I'll miss you"

Based on her tense stuff I'm not reading it as "Good bye" since she could have just not invited me back to weChat and her life at 4am.

And it is the first I miss you I've gotten and is somewhat in reply to my last text before this "I'll miss you so much"

I am sitting on this for  day or two. To figure out what to say. I know. Light.

[1stTimer]

In fact even better. In reviewing the 3 text I sent explaining the faux pas text my last one explained again it was my questioning what happened since I'd been so happy from the magic night and that I'd practiced saying 我会非常想念你的 (I"ll miss you so much) for an hour the next night.

So I believe her reply

Thank you very much. I'll miss you

is her finally replying to me. And the first "I'll miss you" and first acknowledgement of an affection I've gotten in 6 weeks when they were plentiful in September.

I know. Sit on the expectations. Sit on the reply.  Keep it light.

[Skip]

Things are going to move slow in the immediate term... .she is surely very active in getting settled in and seeing family and friends.

We have talked a lot about your actions and how to best navigate and court, especially when there is misalignment. The pressure is off on that for now.

Now would be a good time to examine the pros and cons of going  forward and what that might look like. She tasked herself (and suggested you think about it too) to find a vision of a relationship and partnership that can work. There are people that have had international relationships here.

It's also a good time to talk about who she is and her style and if that can work for you. She sounds very independent and "business first" (which could means relationship 2nd or 3rd or 4th). Her friend of hers asked if you could adopt to her style.

What are your thoughts?

[1stTimer]

I don't really have a clear idea where she stands on relationship vs business. I can conclude that like myself building something of value is of great importance to her which is great, I don't want a housewife. I don't need and never did 7 days a week together thing even if she is here. I think we'd make one damn fine power-couple and she liked that at 'translation' night when he asked if it bothered me she was so ambitious I said hell no I love it we can take over the world and become King and Queen.

I'm not sure he ever asked if I could adopt to her lifestyle. He just said she had concerns (legitamte ones) that we live 1/2 a world apart and speak different languages. Those seem surmountable to me. If one wants them to be.

I'm trying to not get ahead of the cart here. I think ultimately if we want we can make the distance work. She comes to NY for 6 monts a year, I come to Chengdu in the other 6 months for a month or two. I learn Mandarin (I've already got 45 minutes of the 2,200 hours under my belt), she continues to learn English.

A big question IF this becomes long term is is her goal to live in the US? If not then the question becomes (if it went that far) can we have a bi-coastal relationship or would I live in China?

Those seem down the road.

I still think we have some communicating and hopefully courting to do.

I think if I give her space, communicate with mails and wechat, and make it clear I'm starting to learn Mandarin that might go a long way.

I think if we could make the Chengdu visit happen it would be even better (me in China, her in her element, meet her family).

I think personally a HUGE element is going to be if I get this biz going. I have some larger company sniffing around, they just signed an NDA so can continue talks, a good sign.

She is/was very impressed on how hard I worked, but being utterly broke until it takes off can't seem appealing. Even if she does not care (as she has said) there has to be a whole component of "this guy wants you for your money" going on. I did translate one of her screenshots she sent to show she'd shown my site ot a friend who said "it seems lacking" which a layman could conclude because the development funds for this have been a fraction of competitors, even other start-ups, so it is utilitarian UI to say the least. No one would really have a good idea of the power under the hood from just kicking the tires. Point being it is possible people told her 'nah this is not a winner'.  So since I'd doubt she is looking for arm candy but likely a hardworking (which she knows I am) AND successful partner she can be proud of, I now have another huge motivation to get some traction and make this succeed.

So I think if I can either get a deal with this company or get a fire under the revenues it will go a long way to showing at the very least the peanut gallery I am for real.

Right now I just have one text that is promising in context to the whole 4am deal.

The trick is to gently take it to the next step. By which I think is establishing at least a few light text over a few weeks that move beyond this latest conversation/conflict.

If that seems to go well perhaps send a first letter.

Keep in touch with her about my business, ask about hers.

See if Chengdu visit comes up and take it from there.

Right now my plan is to sit on reply for a day or two.

I'm not touching "I miss you" or anything romantic or anything about what has been said.

Saturday I'm supposed to go to a cool Opera at Lincoln Center so I might just send a few pics and a text about that.  I think that text would restore conversation to some normalcy, close the door on the whole discussion (I get the feeling "thank you very much" refers as much to my "I will work harder to understand you" as it does to addressing her text concern), let her know I'm doing things here too, maybe a subliminal nod to Shen Yun in Lincoln Center January (which I believe she is no longer doing btw).

I dunno that is my plan now. Take it light, take a day between texts so I don't say anything stupid (I was going to go to the park since it snowed and take a picture of 'our' Gazebo and came to my senses), move past the strife, start talking again, let us both remember what we liked so much, if things progress a but give some casual updates on business ask about hers, maybe an occasional greeting from my mother, etc.

All this said all I really know is we've made some progress. I don't have a real sense of what went down given all the different messages from him and from her so I'll progress with that in mind and build on what I see.

One step at a time Skip. It is important to not get ahead of one's self or set up unrealistic expectations. :|

[1stTimer]

Another thing that occurs; both her and The Kid use The Moments part of weChat to update pics of their events and activities. When you log into wechat you get alerts of updates. So I can even start posting as a sort of... .fishing expedition. For instance it snowed today and was thinking of texting her pics of NY in the Snow. But if I just update my own weChat with that and say the Concert, next week I'm going skiing, etc it seems to me to serve a few purposes; 1) shows I have a life too and am active 2) puts me on her radar a few times a week w/o beating her text up with Postcards 3) allows her to interact with Likes or comments so I can ascertain her connection.

[1stTimer]

Found text convo from late September. The Kid didn't get it. Maybe she recalibrated, pulled back. Did NOT never consider me BF or just thought of me as friend as I knew:

XL: I'm leaving soon. I'll be very sad. I'll miss you <same thing she just said today>
Me: I will miss you too. If the meeting goes well I'll visit you in Chengdu like you asked
XL: I'm looking forward to your meeting tomorrow because today I'm going to ask God to bless you
XL: Good luck tomorrow because I so hope to see you in Chengdu in my home.
XL (5 hours later at 2am): My dear! I can't sleep tonight! I'm a little nervous! I'm worried about you! But I know you'll be lucky! My friend said I will be your lucky bird... .

Yeah I know the distance from the 'conflict'. But that ^^^ is still at the core.

[Skip]

That is a very clear exchange and her feelings are very clear at that time. You two were very physically involved at that time, too, right?

Yeah I know the distance from the 'conflict'. But that ^^^ is still at the core.

Isn't that the question right now (not the answer)? There were a lot of "transactions" since September.

Did you ever read this article?
https://bpdfamily.com/content/how-borderline-relationship-evolves

I remember how much it enlightened me in one simple way... .the idea that relationship feelings are not static... .that they are fluid and evolving (or devolving).

Her actions didn't exhibit that level of connection for 4-6 weeks. Then there was that effusive reaction to dining with your mom, followed one day later by the dispassionate "dine an dash".

That was a huge double flip-flop - weeks of silence, the effusive reaction to meeting your mom (certainly that wasn't just about your mom), and then "dine an dash".

Personally, I'd re-examine that last day very carefully for some clues here. She was effusive the day before, there was a plethora of positive emotional texts, she was buying gifts and then... .

You have speculated that she simply had a business commitment and had to go. But who plans a dinner in the City for 20 minutes and who would just call a cab?

I speculated that the sullen reaction really triggered her and took the air out of her balloon and she bailed out... .and it went down hill from there. But, of course, I was not there.

When did it turn? Did you trigger her by doing something or by not doing something? Did she have growing resentments since the breakup? Her fuss over your mom and the gifting without a word about you, says something. There are clues in all of this.

I think you will get a much better understanding if you can put your hands around the last 4 weeks and the last week. These puzzle pieces do all fit together - they always do -  it's just not all that clear, sometimes, how they fit together...

[1stTimer]

That is a very clear exchange and her feelings are very clear at that time. You two were very physically involved at that time, too, right?

I'm not assuming we are still there. We are not. I am "assuming" it was the core part of what we had and did not just "go away" in 5 days which is when the distance started and more to the point the implication he made that she was never into me as more than a friend.

I get your take on this and keep pulling it back here so there is clarity in our discussion, your time involved in it being appreciated: she did not pull back due to any pressure from me or sulleness or any other behavior; she did so RIGHT then (the next day was her effusive "I am so happy to find I have another month for us to be together")

You keep asking me to examine my behavior to figure out what occured here and there is none; I said since this moment that it was her OWN excitment/feelings/love that caused her to yank herself away. Without telling me. Without doing me the courtesy when I ASKED that she had (yes I get she was confused). And after 2+ weeks of this woman who had just said the above doing what she did (with 2+ weeks left) *I* reacted to protect *myself*.

Did you ever read this article?
https://bpdfamily.com/content/how-borderline-relationship-evolves

I'll read it. But I get relationships evolve. I've had them before. I've lived with two separate women for 4+ years.

My point and confusion has never been; "things started changing I don't know why". It was precisely that at the very moment and height of her almost over the top emotions (at that point I'll be honest, as much as I liked her those "I will always be there for you dear you are the greatest" sort of freaked me out) she pulled away hard. Nothing evolved. Nothing devolved. It had no chance to.

If we keep casting this as 'you acted too intense' or 'you weren't light enough' or 'you werent' the strong confident man she fell in love with' we miss the WHOLE point of what happened. And my reaction to it after 2-3 weeks of utter confusion coupled with gentle understanding on my part.

That was a huge double flip-flop - weeks of silence, the effusive reaction to meeting your mom (certainly that wasn't just about your mom), and then "dine an dash".

Try to see this from the perspective of what I said above.  Her effusive reaction was because her feelings never changed. They were at the height (well, we didn't have a chance to go higher since she put up her wall) of her feelings which she BURIED.  Certainly it was no easier for her from the moment of those texts to not be with me or near me or take advantage of those six weeks then it was for me. You can speculate that it was but all we have to go on is all of her text (most of which I have not shared but all of which are like the above and, again the intensity of which at the time scared even me regardless of how into her I was) so she also experienced that so of course at my mother's house it was there again.

There is no mystery there (to me). And the magic at my mother's house? I made a nice pasta to be sure, but i didn't create the magic, I was still very leery of why she was there or even whether she'd really show up and if she did was she just getting it out of the way after boxing herself in. My mother didn't cause it, she was polite but hasn't entertained in years and was nervous about even being able to converse. He didn't cause it, he's a nice shy kid. SHE caused it with not just her charm but her utter and complete delight and happiness which infected all of us. That wasn't the 'most wonderful evening I spent in the States' for him because of anything but her. That moment in the kitchen wasn't magic because of anything I did or said. That dinner WAS those texts do you see?

You have speculated that she simply had a business commitment and had to go. But who plans a dinner in the City for 20 minutes and who would just call a cab?

I didn't speculate. She SAID. She was shocked I was upset and said specifically "Yesterday I had to go pick up my business [partners] from the airport, I had to go to Flushing so my friends could drive me."

When I said  "How would I know that XL?" she repeated "I am very busy,  I came all the way from Flushing to buy gifts for your mother, I had to pick up my business associates and now I have to drive them to Chinatown [where the party was so she DID take these associates to the party, not conjecture] I am very tired!"

I speculated that the sullen reaction really triggered her and took the air out of her balloon and she bailed out... .and it went down hill from there. But, of course, I was not there.

True, I understand, and am trying to give you some clarity here. I was not "sullen" that is conjecture. I tried to make converstation, I did not sulk.  When she asked how long I'd been at my place I told her and showed her on Google Maps where I used to live since it is close to where she just lived and showed her how close it was, how we had roofdecks too, etc. I was not sitting there sulking. I was trying to engage. I even made some joke as we ate the whole fish that I felt like we were two Fish Surgeons and she laughed.

When she called the car, I was taken aback, yeah. In fact, based on her prior comments, thought she was calling a car for us to go somewhere else. I remmeber that because I had not been able to get my laundry done prior (broken machine) so had no socks and was very worried about going to one of her friends homes and having to take off my shoes. But that just became her turning around and saying "Ok see you next year". I said "Have a good night" and turned and walked away.

You are casting the evening as my sulking and her getting turned off, perhaps from the way I described it. I'm telling you I was not. SHE was acting up; the fact she was so shocked tells me at least that she was utterly preoccupied with who was coming in and how to handle it. I think there is some connection to the "mystery" about what has been going on because clearly there is one. Her husband? Her family not approving? The fact her friend keeps saying "she wishes you'd kept the flowers a secret" tells me something.

When did it turn? Did you trigger her by doing something or by not doing something? Did she have growing resentments since the breakup? Her fuss over your mom and the gifting without a word about you, says something. There are clues in all of this

I think you will get a much better understanding if you can put your hands around the last 4 weeks and the last week. These puzzle pieces do all fit together - it's just not clear how.

This requires holding on to your perspective though (which is a valid alternative); that I did something to trigger her, which fits in with your overall view that I did something to trigger her distance.

Let's step back if you think this is a puzzle to solve and try my original theory, which fits completely into his "she didn't want to get to "I can't live without you" so she reconsidered the relationship".

• She pulled back RIGHT after her effusive texts about 'support forever' and 'miss you so much' and 'be with me in Chengdu' and 'so happy another month together' and 'honey I can't sleep worried about you' and 'today I went to pray for your succes'. Those arent' small thngs, it isn't a woman visiting going on about sex but about love
• She decidedly did not want me pulling away those the "nothing is wrong" and the Shen Yun dinner where her 6 married friends made it crystal clear how much I mean to her and that we are a couple
• She didn't take the out in my letter to just make this a summer romance and move on. She made sure to come up to the bar we met at (which she has made clear she thinks was magical or ordained) and brought a person to communicate. Among her smaller worries was she was too old and that I'd find other women (which fits in with her endless early "You like ME?" "YOU like ME?" "REALLY?") and her larger one was meeting my parents, a HUGE thing in Chines culture according to him.
• The energy when she walked in and the energy that built between us at that meeting took me by utter surprise as I was expecting cold and angry due to her distance and texts yet "it" was still there
• The importance to her of that dinner, the joy it gave her, my invitation to Chenngdu

So let's look at the dinner with that perspective. This woman who was clearly falling hard, decided to just put up a wall to protect herself. Without talking to me. That could hardly work or change her feelings anymore than it could change mine. She managed to keep distance for a month but that didn't manage to change her feelings as she found at the 'translation' and was I beleive overwhelmed by at my mother's dinner. She didn't need to invite me out the next night "just you and me! " she could have just flown away. She WANTED to be with me when she texted in the wee hours to invite me, giddy with joy and once again inviting me to Chengdu.

In the light of day though this girl who wanted to escape not feeling "I can't live withou you" boxed herself right into that in one day after managing to create distance at least for 4-6 weeks.  So she pulled back again or simply got overwhelmed by her feelings at dinner. Because as you say, those feelings at my mother's house werern't about my mother they were about me. And here she is, exactly where she didn't want to be; feeling overhwhelmed by feelings about me on a dinner before she flies away. In other words right at "can't live without you" before she leaves. Which she'd worked so hard to avoid.

This makes for more sense to the events on the ground. I'd add that she likely was picking up her ex or or ex's associates since her business IN China involves working with her ex.

I'd say that is one confusing night.

It would support her trying so hard to not say "I love you" or "I'll miss you" like she used to do and stopped herself from doing from a month. And saying over and over to my mother, on MY Phone which she knows the texts are coming to "I love you" "I'll miss you" "I'll return to you" "your letters moved me so" "your words brought tears to my eyes"  seems to me to be saying to her (which she can't possibly feel) what she cannot say to me (which it seems clear she likely does).

It would support her texting me the moment she boarded "kiss your mother for me. tell her I love her" because she can't say that to me but needed to communicate the last time she could before leaving.

It would support her texting me again the moment she landed, the first time she could in 15 hours "I don't want to make you sad"

And it would support her replying a minute after text which came after a week of silence from me and at 4am "come back to weChat". She could have let me disappeared forever since the phone I was texting on is being turned off and as she said "I'll have wechat forever". She was safely in China and a few days from my never having a way to contact her again. Easy peasy no?

It would support, the moment I came back to wechat her hitting me with the three issues clearly on her mind:

• I wish you would stop being so angry and unhappy
• Please work harder to understand me more. Not knowing enough English is very hard on me.
• Please explain this text that was sent to me which has the word f******

And, it would support her texting me back "Thank you so much. I'll miss you".

[1stTimer]

I think my reply to her text, likely today (waited a full day) is simply going to be:

 

Since there is nothing more to say about this exchange that can make it better, it acknowledges I got it, and sort of puts, I hope, a happy let's move forward cap on it w/o saying too much.

[Skip]

... .my original theory, which fits completely into his "she didn't want to get to "I can't live without you" so she reconsidered the relationship".

So you are pretty sure that her feelings for you are so powerful that she fears them emotionally (fear of abandonment/fear of vulnerability), or she fears a relationship with you would be detrimental in some way (professional, family) and that the inconsistent actions that you witnessing are her in an internal struggle, vacillating between the pull of her heart and the power of her defenses.

You breaking up with her, the walk away (and social media blocking) at your last meeting, the 1/2 truths comments, and tussling with the translator friend are not helping the situation, but in the larger scheme of things, they are secondary/minor - and she likely realizes, deserved.

I'm paraphrasing and trying to understand - not trying to add spin or expand on your idea.

[1stTimer]

So you are pretty sure that her feelings for you are so powerful that she fears them emotionally (fear of abandonment/fear of vulnerability), or she fears a relationship with you would be detrimental in some way (professional, family) and that the inconsistent actions that you witnessing are her in an internal struggle, vacillating between the pull of her heart and the power of her defenses.

She said as much. I intuited as much. It fits everything. And no I don't think she has "fear of abandonment". I think she has/had fear of exactly what I thought and exactly what she said; having that powerful feeling she had by the end of Septembre grow to an unbearable level with a month of making love, interacting with her friends and family and then having to leave to be 1/2 around the world where a) she wasn't even sure I would follow b) she wasn't sure I would wait (long time, other women) c) she wasn't sure If I really liked her all that much (really? YOU like ME?) d) there'd be other prettier younger women here (she was sure when she met me I was a player) and e) even if none of these are true she lives there I live here and f) we don't speak the same language.

I didn't make this up. She said it (through him) when she left and I said this from the start.

You breaking up with her, the walk away (and social media blocking) at your last meeting, the 1/2 truths comments, and tussling with the translator friend are not helping the situation, but in the larger scheme of things, they are secondary/minor - and she likely realizes, deserved.

I didn't say this Skip. I don't think they are minor. They aren't what caused her to pull back her own feelings are. I didn't help at all with her concerns about language or her concerns about 'does he REALLY like me' with my actions at all. I didn't help when I broke up with a girl who was so happy I never get mad at her. I'm not trivializing how my own behavior helped add to the spin-out.

I doubt pretty seriously she gets she "deserved" or caused my hurt or anger. It is one of the things that gives me GRAVE concern about HER.

Without my break-up in October or my walk-out after dinner we'd still have this; girl got super attached, got terrified of getting to "I can't live without you" (his paraphrase of her concern) with another month of the same and then having to live with me not knowing a) if I would want or find a way to continue b) not knowing even if I did this whole thing can possibly work.  Everything about what happened explains that because let me tell you; that dinner was not a girl slowly realizing how she had felt a few weeks ago. It was just there. Still. Same thing I said when she came to the bar for the translation drink. Hadn't seen her for 3 weeks then and it was still palpable. The kid even remarked when I thanked him afterward "Thank you both for trusting me given your special relationship. I am so happy you both found something so special and intimate with each other".

I'm not sure where/if you are getting that I think my reactions helped or were minor. I don't think they are. I regret them.

She showed some parts of her self that concern me, I showed some parts that concern me. Whether she is cognizant of hers or wants to work on them I have no way of knowing.

Yet and still; a woman I've not had a real conversation with since I met her is still reaching out and keeping the door open, is still (depending on which of the things he said one believes) is trying to figure out how/if to have a relationship.  It is no small thing to say "didn't want to get to I can't live without you", I'd only think that about someone I was approaching that with.

And yes; if you take out my behavior we are still left with the same scenario.

Naturally we can throw a lof of other real-life possibilities; she is one of those women/people that run super-hot/crazy with each new person they meet, introduces a lot of hyperbole to deal with their feelings, then moves on to someone else leaving the first person in disarray. And that she did that to me.  Nothing about what happened supports that. So I'm left with my theory which I think if you review you will agree is likely what happens and supports all the facts. My reactions didn't help and likely hurt badly but the weren't the cause and don't explain her distance. Note she came to the bar and came to the dinner even after my 'break-up' and she texted me while getting on the plane and off and got me back into her life the moment I texted hre a week later in China. So whatever I've done and whatever she'd done, something pretty amazing still exists IMHO.

That is the key difference between our theories;

I see a girl who tried to protect herself from being hurt or getting too deep into a relationship she was not sure she could maintain, handled it poorly because she was torn, hurt me in the process, I reacted poorly (after handling it well) and I made the situation worse (and made it even clearler that the language issues are huge)

You see a woman who was on the fence and then got turned off/pushed away by my anger/fear, tentatively tried to reengage and got turned off again by my anger/fear.

That is fine yet as I see it not only the facts of the situation but my experience of it and her tell me my theory fits like a glove. I don't really "win" anything if I'm right, this woman I love is 1/2 around the world and if she does love me back then us getting together let alone ending up together is going to be a lot of work. That's why I'm saving this post and going back to my HelloChinese lesson. Worst comes to worst I'll get a few hundred hours of Mandarin under my belt and start being able to talk t othe 1.5 billion people who speak it even though I'm learning it to speak to just one of them.

[1stTimer]

... .the 1/2 truths comments...

BTW the 1/2 truths comment has not been part of this gestalt as far as I know.  I was not accusing her of telling /12 truths. I was telling him I could not reply to what he said because it was not all of the truth and that, just like at the translation, I am faced with either having to reply to something that does not encompass all the facts or share facts she chose not to.

Otherwise all I can say to that seemingly reasonable summary out of context is

Oh ok, yeah maybe we should not get closer before she leaves, and figure this out while apart.

or

Yes I understand she didn't want us to get to that point that makes total sense I understand why she'd be scared and we should take that time.

Yet and again it doesn't reflect what just happened, that she did not protect OUR hearts and make WE didn't get closer, it doesn't explain meeting my mother, the invite, the nothing.

It asks me to pretend or at least reply as if this revelation is not coming when she is boarding a plane after keeping my heart open, me totally in the dark that "we" have ended the relationship and just spend a hugely signficant night making a hugely significant statement about our relationship by having this Chinese girl insist on meeting my mother, making it clear it is of huge signicance and joy to her and inviting me to come continue the relationship in Chengdu in her home. Which was the whole point of the translation night; should we continue this, is it special, these are her concerns all of which I dealt with.

If he passed along my reply and she felt misunderstood I cannot help it and do not CARE. She's a middle-aged woman with businesses, friends, family, and a grown daughter.

So no I don't think this was a factor and in fact not even communicated and in the end her 1/2 truth simply supports my take on this whole thing even as a 1/2 truth; she knew she'd be "cant live without him" in a few weeks so did not continue it so that she did not have to go to China hopelessly in love with a man she is not sure she can realistically have a relationship with. If she is adult enough to get that she is adult enough to get the rest.

[Skip]

That is the key difference between our theories... .

It's was never a competition. I gave you my best reads on this situation based on what you have reported and what we have seen on this site over the years. I did this to help you make sense of what happened and give you a foundation to make decisions going forward. I based my comments on what you reported and thought you would embrace it and some level and use it to challenge what you were thinking and doing.

However you decide to piece this together, its important to connect all the pieces and look for consistency. For example, if this is about an incredible love and fear of abandonment/fear of vulnerability, then a breakup and walk away over relatively small events, would be monumental events. Internal consistency. Just like if I had a fear of fire and my girlfriend was careless with candles and twice accidentally set a small fire in my house after we went to bed...

See the idea? I'm not suggesting that you agree to the comments above - they are just illustrations.

The alternate ideas would suggest alternate actions... . 

Anyway, you followed the my explanation of evolving and changing trajectories and logic and it doesn't fit with your interpretation of the actions and that is a call only you can make.

Hopefully the discussion served some purpose here and for going forward.

[once removed]

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