She is leaving please help

[merkaba1]

Hello,

So I just started a new job and am at a training facility about an hour away from where my fiancé and I live. The day before I was to leave for my first big boy job (which I only took because I thought we were having a baby-which was traumatically lost a few weeks back- and I needed a job to provide for our new family. Her grandmother was sick and she went to take care of her. The next day she informed me she was doing a technology cleanse for a few days and not ignoring me but not talking to anyone. A day or so went by and I figured out I was blocked. She finally called back later that evening and informed me she was moving out, and driving her, our dog, and her grandma down to Florida (we live in Michigan) and that she was moving to Costa Rica (earlier in the year I gave her my trip to a yoga school there because I felt she would benefit more than I which would in turn strengthen our family that much more) so of course I panic and drive home to try and see her. Walking into that empty house without her or our puppy was absolutely devistating.  Currently she is not willing to see me to at the very least say goodbye.  I am so very heart broken.  It's not that I am unsupportive of her moving to Costa Rica for an extended period to get the healing she so needs, I really am. Which that time apart would give us both the opportunity to heal and become better individuals on our own.  I really dislike the feeling that she is turning her back (she says she is protecting her back) without at least a goodbye.  To me I've been abandoned before, and for the most part, I know how breakups work for most.  You don't talk or see one another again. She says we will see each other in a few months as just friends but I do not know! She is my best friend, lover, and partner. 

How do I reach through to her when she has cut cords, and is so intuitive and that is telling her to stay away? How do I get through to her that I am not all bad. Sure, i have done bad things, and not treated her all that great.  I am a patient person and more patient than most I've been around. I am told by many that any other man would have left her many times over by now after hearing what's been going on. But there are times and I'm sure many of you have experienced this; even with a calm heart and a loving heart, it still isn't enough and even one slip up or short fused moment I may have is blown way out of proportion and the splitting, black and white thinking turns full force and I am projected upon and thought of as all bad.

She didn't move everything out of our house so there is still a car load of her things there.  Is that a good sign? Is there still hope for us?

She and I both have suffered through addictions.  I have gotten over the life deblilitating ones but still battle with marijuana, cigarettes, food, and intimacy issues. She battles with alocohol cigarettes, and amphetamines (which were prescribed and I had been the one in control of them as of late).

I feel like my life is crumbling all around me and I don't know what to do. I dread returning home tomorrow to this empty house.  If it weren't for me being in public i would be a disaster.

Last action I took was to drive to the city she is in with her grandma and am sitting at a Starbucks writing this while she is at a gym across the street.  I told her I didn't want to cross her boundaries of not seeing me, and I didn't want to be fully crazy and just show up at the gym but I am so lost. I just gave her the option of joining me when she I see done. I want my needs met while still honoring hers. 


I'll stop for now. Thank you all for reading and to anyone that finds the time To respond.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Hart_Payne]

First of all, I understand your grief. The suffering you went through trying establish something better yourself. Don't deny that you've been hurt, that shortens your growth. Also you have to understand that people with BPD believe it's all about THEM, their pain and no ones else. Which is a lie. Realize that you've been hurt that way you can handle the impulse to do rash things.

If you don't respond to a BPD in the specific way they have irrationally formed in their mind, you're the enemy, it's their "splitting" defense. They go OVERBOARD to gain some type control and to get a response. Engaging their wants makes the problem worse because they don't learn and continue to use the same tactics.

Her leaving stuff behind I personally don't believe is a sign. They can cuts ties like son of a b#$#@. And logically one would believe a return is due, but they don't think in logical terms. Taking everything is a way to hurt you the way she believes she was hurt. To hurt you bad and deep. I could be wrong, but I've through that same tactic.

You have to build some kind of defense against these games. And I realize the pain you're under, but if someone wanted to pull your strings, to make you do what they wanted... .do think this is how they would do it?

Be strong and smart. Value yourself too.

[merkaba1]

thanks, hart_payne.

Yes turning into acting irrational and doing rash things is far from what I want.  I certainly know I have been hurt as well.  I do not believe many of the accusations she has made toward me; such as being a full-blown narcissist, that my family doesn't even like me, that my empathy is fake and that I have lied our entire relationship.  At the end of the day, I can only keep my side of the street clean and recognize my part in the relationship.  Me pointing my finger and saying she did this this and this really doesn't get me anywhere.  I guess my point about hurting her was more that I feel if she didn't have BPD, what I did wouldn't have been perceived anywhere near as bad as she sees it, nor would it have hurt as badly as it did.

I do not wish to play into her games.  The last time she threatened suicide I knew it was a tactic to get love from me as well as a reaction and begging her not to.  This time I did not immediately drop everything I was doing and run to her aid.  This brings up a topic probably best for a new thread of its own; how to handle suicide threats.  I don't think anyone out there would take a threat or gesture lightly and nor should they.  I also recognize this tactic in her and how its used to control and that although she may self mutilate, she is not at a point of suicide. 

I'm not sure if taking all of her things was done to specifically hurt me or not.  She claims she had to pack up and run while I was away because it would be too difficult to leave with me around.  Which is also why she couldn't say goodbye face to face before heading south.  She does say we will see one another again in a few months, which I would like to believe is true.  I miss her and our dog terribly.

So what would your suggestion be on how to play my next moves?  Clearly trying to convince her to see me is not working at all.  I do want her in my life and am also okay with her taking time to live in Costa Rica. (my guess is she would make it a few months before coming back to the states)  Although, she relies on disability income and doesn't speak Spanish. $900 a month won't go very far, especially for someone that has extreme difficulties managing money.  And the trip I gifted her is for a yoga training school so she will have some technical training and an ability to develop a career if she so chooses. But I have also spent a lot of time researching moving to Costa Rica myself, and it's not easy.  Even for someone with a level head and a solid plan, it is difficult.  I am a firm believer that you take your home with you no matter where you run off to, so the same problems will manifest no matter where one runs off to.  So my gut is telling me that her staying there long term is more of a dream that it will somehow fix everything.  For a long time, she has told me that she just wants to be alone, but then will come back shortly after saying she really wants life with me.  I am a very intuitive person myself and believe this is another defensive mechanism to distance herself from past traumas and potential future pain.

Do you have any suggestions on how to not play into her tactics?  What the tactics might be, the underlying purpose or goal of them and so on?  Any help or personal experience would be greatly appreciated!

I am so happy I found this community.  Are there any face to face support groups out there, or even teleconference meetings for non-BPs to find support?

[Bnonymous]

Hi merkaba1,

I am sorry you lost your baby. How far along into the pregnancy was she?

I suspect this one might have little to do with hurting you and everything to do with her own hurt. As you perceptively point out, we can't run away from our feelings just by packing up and changing location, but people often try nonetheless, and maybe that's what's happening here.

Miscarriage hurts. It can come between even the most stable of couples. People sometimes react to grief by withdrawing into themselves, leaving their partners feeling alone and as though the other doesn't care. Women often blame themselves or fear that their partner secretly blames them. Any feelings of inadequacy or anxiety often become heightened and amplified as the dream turns into a nightmare and we come face-to-face with our own powerlessness in the face of tragedy. I don't know if any of these things are factors here, but they could be.

Her abandonment fears are likely to have been at full blast: she's lost a baby, her grandmother has been sick, her partner has started a new job with a long commute... .She may well be overwhelmed by her feelings right now to the point where she can't deal with them at all and all she can think to do is run.

Was she happy about the pregnancy? If she was, then your home might be filled with dreams that are now too painful for her to be reminded of and that might be part of why she is running. If she wasn't happy about it or had mixed feelings, then she may be affected by guilt (the kind of magical thinking that her reservations caused the loss).

Admittedly this is all speculation but I think, one way or another, the timing of her departure is unlikely to be a coincidence. I don't know if you can find out at this stage. It may be better to give her space for a little bit and to take that time as space for you too, then maybe reach out in a considered way in a few weeks. If she is running, she may return when she realises that (as you say) she's just brought all the feelings with her.

How have you both dealt with the pregnancy loss? Has she had or considered any counselling to help deal with it?

[Hart_Payne]

I can assist you with that after 2 decades of dealing with this dilemma. I don't know what you entertainment taste are, but a good model to follow is Raymond Reddington from the show The Blacklist. In short he's witty, charming, charismatic, upbeat and knows how to mirror emotions to calm a person down. Here's the point you need to understand... .he tells the most engaging stories with so much zeal and pleasure... .then he KILLS you. NO KILLING   The point is, NEVER he gets rattled, gets out character, or lose his cool. He's cold and calculating, but lovable. That's how you handle a BPD person. Outwit them.

In totally fairness, it's very hard to be that way constantly with a stark raving BPD tantrum. (I've tried). But it helps SOO much that when I do have to let it go, I'm NOT distressed for the most part and have my wits about me.

Can't list them all, but here are the tactics you needs to watch out for:

1. The "don't seem like you missed me" trick. You're supposed to break down and fall to your knees for forgiveness. Because if you don't, you don't care. Never feed into that control issue 2."I only came back because... ." in short, they want you to say I'm sorry and it was all my fault that you left me.
3. "This can only work if... ." their list of irrational demands to keep you in control. And it's accompanied with the ultimatum of death.
4. Never speak of their faults and flaws if you want to keep harmony. Which goes with accept their flaw like a good boy.
5. The "some other person was all into me the way I am" the jealous ploy.
6. "Other people said that YOU were wrong" trick.
7. Giving up what's good for you if it clashes with their ideas and psyche.

My main point don't let her twist it around to be your fault. She left to get herself together sound like a "I don't want to face the issue" escape. To be with someone, is the face problem head on together. And your next step it to get yourself together and YOU'RE getting yourself to be a better person for love. Because if you can't take care yourself you can't take care of someone else.

Suicide threats are NOT ACCEPTABLE! That's the worst emotional abuse tactic EVER! My therapist said that playing that game can get her committed whether she likes to or not. Of course after a few days, they can check themselves out (depending on the state). My therapist said to say "let me call the authorities because I can't help if you want kill yourself and I care too much for you to let you die." Then she said watch her reaction then. We laugh out loud. But BPD people will see that as a betrayal, irrationally so. But what are you going do

This is just a start, but I hope it helps. Stay strong.

BTW weed is not bad... . 

[merkaba1]

Thank you for your words.

I notice falling into those types of control issues on her behalf.  Before I really knew it was BPD with co-occurring disorders, I just thought it was extreme depression when under the influence. I had taken her to the psych ward before for suicide 'attempts' I put loose marks on that.  Definitely scary and intense but it was my first insight into that world and it was a bit much to handle.  I was always there for her during that time.  I do see myself falling into many different types of traps and its wrong.  I only started educating myself on this topic for a few months at best. And I will not beat myself up too much because I feel she needs a more sensitive approach to communication. She did finally get into a DBT therapist.  I would say before she left town, she had seen her maybe 4-6 times or about 2-3 weeks.  I have no clue how that all went but I do recall when we were face timing she even said, "my therapist blew it... ."-was about not responding immediately kind of reaction and I am curious if the therapist was actually pinpointing issues she was going through.

I would like to ask about all the different tactics and how best to react and approach situations.  However, in the light of everything I think I'd like to be more specific with this current issue and some guidance about a decision.  I'm sure I'll read something that will spark a thought and feeling into a good direction.  I do love this person and desire her in my life and know she needs to go through healing.  So, at this point, since she has moved out and broken up with me (maybe hasn't actually said the words and cut me out of her life) what would be a good plan of action?  Lately, I have been a mess.  When I came home from training earlier this evening I was a mess!  (I am a highly sensitive type of individual as well, however, I do not identify with having NPD or BPD)

I spoke with her this morning  and sent her a message which she hasn't responded to.  She I am guessing is still on her way down south with her grandma and when we spoke earlier, she said she had 8 hours to go.  She isn't the greatest time teller when traveling so I'd put it toward 9-10 hours which would put her getting there in the next hour or two. So, what shall I do? I see it a few ways:
1. I could message her or call her now and see how its going
2. I could wait until much later when she would have to be at a hotel (I'd imagine her elderly grandmother won't want to be in the car forever).
3. I could do nothing at all and wait.
4. I could not respond to her
5. If a call or message came in, I could wait on responding or picking up.
6. I could chase after somehow.
7. ?
8. I could be cold when speaking with her and ride it out (although I fear being cut off for good)
9. I could have a really sensitive loving type of tone.
10. I could pretend like nothing ever happened.


I don't like the feeling or idea of 'playing games'.  What does everyone think?  I want her to see the truth that I want to see the best in her and I am loving, supportive, and patient as well as telling truthful and authentic. 

She kept saying last night that we would see one another in a few months.  Is that just a ploy to cool me down when I am getting super emotional or does she actually mean that? 

[merkaba1]

Oh, and the pregnancy was about 8-9 weeks along.  That's a whole different story, but it was not a miscarriage although at one earlier point she thought she had one just to find out shes still pregnant.  Then I went with her to the clinic; mind you I don't want to get into an abortion pro life pro choice type of thing here.  Everyone has their situations and outlooks and beliefs.  For me, I did really want this baby.  I did understand that it would be very difficult, we'd have to wake up immediately and put our A game forward. It was back and forth of I want it I don't for weeks.  Things were the worst its ever been then.  I can understand if hormones are intense and it made things very bad; however, she was still drinking and smoking and other food items that are bad for a baby.  At one point she was crying so hysterically because she was trying to kill the baby by consuming alcohol.  I was still loving and patient but yes flew into traps and it got bad.  So we went to the clinic and had the procedure done.  This was a very sad day for both of us.  She seemed the days leading up to it to be non-emotional toward it and said she was already over it when she thought she had the miscarriage ( thinking this is a defensive tactic of the pain it caused her to drink). Anyway, she basically a week later was crying saying she wanted my babies and wanted to get married eluding to regretting doing what she had done.   So although it wasn't a long-term thing, a little over two months of carrying a baby and feeding a soul to me is big, and my that must be traumatizing for someone with BPD.    Its bad enough for me right?

I suppose I'll ask this question:  at what point should one totally move on after making a commitment?  She knows everything that is 'wrong' with her and she knows what to do, however, as I have learned with quitting drinking, only when I made that choice and sought treatment did I get sober from alcohol.  Can't say I was 100% sober after with other less life-threatening and debilitating. So, until she really wants to heal it won't happen.  I do feel total faith and confidence she will, but lord only knows how long or short that will take for it to happen. So, at what point do I just say it will never work?  In some ways, I feel like I am waking up from a dream right now.

[Harri]

Hi.  I am so sorry for what you have been through including the loss of your baby.  Yes, I believe it was a loss for you as well.  So painful. 

Earlier in the thread you said:   

At the end of the day, I can only keep my side of the street clean and recognize my part in the relationship.  Me pointing my finger and saying she did this this and this really doesn't get me anywhere.  I guess my point about hurting her was more that I feel if she didn't have BPD, what I did wouldn't have been perceived anywhere near as bad as she sees it, nor would it have hurt as badly as it did.

I think you are right on target here, both with only being able to take care of your side of the street and how she responded more intensely because of her disorder.  It is a part of her and will influence everything. 

She knows everything that is 'wrong' with her and she knows what to do, however, as I have learned with quitting drinking, only when I made that choice and sought treatment did I get sober from alcohol.  Can't say I was 100% sober after with other less life-threatening and debilitating. So, until she really wants to heal it won't happen.  I do feel total faith and confidence she will, but lord only knows how long or short that will take for it to happen. So, at what point do I just say it will never work?  In some ways, I feel like I am waking up from a dream right now.

Again, this too is right on target.  She has to want to get better and be committed to it and even then it is a long hard battle.  Given that, I think all you can do is decide your course of action based on what is right for you.  Waiting for her to get better is not necessarily a good thing.  Even when a pwBPD (person with BPD) is committed it can take a very long time to see improvement.  I am not saying this to discourage you at all.   I just want you to have a realistic idea of what is involved and to realize that you and your needs matter and really should play a big part in your decision.  Here is part of an article that can give you an idea of what it takes to be in a relationship with someone with BPD: 
Realistic Expectations: A person with BPD is emotionally weak and does not have "high level" emotional skills to cope with life's complexities - especially in times of stress.  It is important to have realistic expectations for what the relationship can be in terms of consistent respect, trust and support, honesty and accountability, and in terms of negotiation and fairness, or expectations of non-threatening behavior.  It is important to accept the relationship behavior for what it is - not hope the person will permanently return to the idealization phase.
Accept the Role of "Emotional Caretaker": According to Kraft Goin MD (University of Southern California), "people worth BPD traits need a person who is a constant, continuing, empathic force in their lives; someone who can listen and handle being the target of intense rage and idealization while concurrently defining values and boundaries with firmness and candor".  To be in this type of relationship, you must accept the role as emotional caretaker - consistently staying above it.

Maintaining routine and structure

Setting and maintain boundaries

Being empathetic, building trust, even in difficult times

Don’t tolerate abusive treatment, threats and ultimatums

In crisis, stay calm, don’t get defensive, don't take it personally

Don’t protect them from natural consequences of their actions - let them fail

Self-Destructive acts/threats require action

And at the same time, its important to understand that you and your behavior alone, will be not enough to heal your relationship. - you can only end your contribution to the emotional instability of the relationship. Your partner has to be trying.

Keep reading and posting and reaching out here.  Jump into other threads and see what has and has not worked for other people.  You are not alone in this and you can get a lot of great support from people here. 

 

[Bnonymous]

Hi Merkaba1,

I'm sorry for having misunderstood. Thanks for clarifying. It sounds like the two of you have been through a roller coaster of emotions with all this. It must be really hard.

With my boyfriend, I ask myself a different question - I ask "Would I still stay even I were certain that nothing would ever get better?" and my answer is yes. I hope things will get better and I have reason to hope they will, but I don't want to pin everything on that hope. I'm not sure how possible it is to set a time-frame for improvement, but, I think, if you reach a point where you have waited too long, you'll recognise it when you get there.

You are right that the drive to heal has to come from her. Congratulations on your sobriety! It's a big thing. Even if you have taken a damage limitation approach and only tackled the most harmful addictions, that's still a major triumph for you and I hope it's an ongoing source of pride. How long have you been sober? Were you together when you sought treatment or did you meet later? I'm wondering how she feels about it - does she find it inspiring ("If he can do it, maybe I can too") or intimidating ("He can do it, but I can't - I'm so inadequate!") or maybe a bit of both? Is she supportive of your sobriety?

[Harri]

Bnonymous said: 

With my boyfriend, I ask myself a different question - I ask "Would I still stay even I were certain that nothing would ever get better?"

This is a very good way to look at the choice of staying with your partner.  It keeps the focus on you, your emotional health and your personal limits.  I like it!   

[Hart_Payne]

Merkaba1,

Great that you don't want to play games. That only stops you from getting stronger. But in all honesty a BPD is NOT going see what you see. Especially if it means exposing their faults. A therapist and commitment can make them see that. Their weakness is not seeing their weakness.

As for your tactic, firstly don't talk to her cold. That's a trigger. Don't  pretend nothing happened, that's a trigger that you're oblivious to their plight. Don't chase after her, that's a disservice to YOU even though it tears you apart not being with her.

It's best to talk to her stating that you miss her. State your love for her. And talk about a funny or uplifting story that's not related to your situation. It's needs to be a combination of "I love you, but I'm strong" conversation. And when you get back we can continue to grow stronger together.

It's hard to say if she's being honest about seeing you in a few months. A few months of not changing, changes nothing. I would be thinking what's a few months going to do if you're not trying to repair your relationship. That absence makes the heart grows fonder is bull. That works if you're anxious to get to that person. Not if you're trying to say that you need space. Then that's a cope out.

I believe that you're strong and intelligent from your post. And like all of us, nobody's perfect. So don't sell yourself short. That's why I said a model for the attitude should be Raymond Reddington. His personality is bane to a BPD personality.

[merkaba1]

Hello all,

thank you all.  I do agree with you Bnonymous and Harri I agree.  This is probably one of the hardest questions you can ask someone.  I find myself torn a bit when asked this, and this is mostly from the hope we will be together.  This is difficult because with a pwBPD, this break up seems different than all others.  Or at least the driving factors, now this is the first relationship I have been in with someone with BPD so I could be wrong. 

Bnonymous, if you had to put your bf on the scale of invisible to low functioning where would you place him?  I have been sober from alcohol for 8.5 years.  (I am 29) We met much later after my sobriety date from alcohol.  She did mention at one point that when she heard I was sober for that long she wanted to latch on.  She made her sobriety seem longer when first meeting but much later it came out that she was not sober when we met.  Mind you, I still was smoking pot quite frequently when we met. This could just be addict thinking, but when I went back to school I was highly involved, got near-perfect grades, and worked a lot; I was very busy, smoked frequently, and did very well in life.  I am not saying I want to be smoking pot for the rest of my life, or much longer either.  So when all these details of myself came out, it scared her and I'm guessing her image of me was very much tainted (at one point the intensity of idealizations was strong, but the splitting was also intense, everything was thrown back at me).

It is possible she had much deeper, different feelings than I thought.  The roller coaster of her usage has been wild.  I know its much larger than me and although I may have been an intense trigger for her use while living together, her addiction is her own (although its hard not to take some blame, I know that's not real) and once I made a total complete decision to quit drinking, it was never a huge issue.

I feel she was very supportive of my sobriety, and work toward deeper sobriety.  To me, I am not 100% sober just because I don't drink.  I have an addictive personality (as I would guess a fair amount of us nonBPD people or this is an attribute my therapist had mentioned is common) and desire to let go of the impulsive control issues.  She had been very helpful, even if it came off in a mean or attacking manner; I know she loves me and it hurts her to see myself hurting me.  This was very intense though, criticism for a lot of things I'd want to eat (I have type1 diabetes and some stomach issues + she is very knowledgeable about food + her love for me= sometimes some intense judgment if I reach for something that is junk).  However, some of my issues I have hidden from her along the way.  This is not a proud thing for me, but I also felt insecurities of sharing these things for fear of her lashing back at me or using it against me.  All in all, she helped through reflections, bring out things within my character that I desire to let go of to grow into that person I want to be.  Addictions run deeper than I believe most think about.  Yes, the drugs and alcohol are bad, but then there is sex addiction which is terrible, addictions to food, money, TV, social media, exercising, their faith, man this list could really go on.  So for me to reach total sobriety I'd like to see myself in good standings with all of these things.

Hartpayne
 'A few months of not changing, changes nothing. I would be thinking what's a few months going to do if you're not trying to repair your relationship.'

I agree with this for sure.  This is why the running aspect is so difficult.  I believe we could have as adults sat down and talked about her desire to move to Costa Rica for a while, get back to the sunshine etc.  I am supportive of her trying to change and heal by going to CR for an extended time; I have to release my own fears or knowings of a crash and burn.  I have to lovingly detatch and let her go do her thing, right?  But to me, I don't see why we can't have that kind of conversation and still come back to one another.  I guess I'd be feeling much better if all of her belongings minus the boxes in my mud room weren't moved out, that I could take care of our dog while she's gone, and know that we will reconvene down the road, if that's at the end of January when the actual yoga class ends, or in the spring when Michigan isn't so awful haha


Update on the last day or so-

We've still been texting, talking, and facetiming.  She was sad the other night about everything and said she missed me.  While she's been driving down she has had an issue being so close to her grandma and has been venting toward me.  Then mentioned how she missed me.  Even though she mentioned there was to be no type of sexual relationship at this time and so on, still 'flashed her rib cage' kind of behavior last night and asked if it was too much for me.  What's up with this?  Still says in a caring manner I love you and is sending me these awesome selfies with her and our dog.  She sends me this podcast on breakups from the minimalist podcast which is great and I would recommend it It basically talks about how to have friendships with your significant other after a breakup.  Some very good points in there!  Although with her habit of sending songs to tell me how she feels, this is most likely the same thing right?

Now, this morning she has sent a few songs that are very loving and reading the lyrics don't seem anything like we're just friends goodbye.  Has anyone had experience having someone send songs, videos etc. in a way to speak about their feelings instead of actually writing them?

Then after the sweet selfies and asking me to send her podcasts for her drive, I get a call asking if I have her shoes.  Well there is still a large pile of her stuff so yes I do.  Asks me if her uncle can come get it.  Calls me back, and asks if her dad can come sometime and get them and then we can have coffee.  He is the one who turned me onto what BPD actually is.  After her mom and dad divorced, her dad dated someone with BPD for a while.  I resisted looking into it when he first mentioned, which I really should have listened earlier, it could have saved me a lot of grief.  Her whole family, I have felt, has been cut out.  I really care for them too, so yes I'd like to have coffee.  The unfortunate thing, I was holding onto her passport and drivers license along with her meds which are a controlled substance.  I had them in an ammo lock bocks, however, found out that although there is a paddle lock one can with enough strength pull the opposite corner away and get things out potentially.  So I locked the ammo box up in a metal cabinet I have.  I came home and found the lock has been damaged so I cannot fit the key all the way in.  It is still locked and the ammo box is still in there.  She hasn't mentioned it to me nor have I brought it up.  So, what should I do about that stuff in there?  If she does really plan to go to CR after Christmas (which she has already pushed back the time she is going which is a bad sign already) she will need her passport or will have to order a new one.  Even with expediting it'll take a long time.  I can't open it and would likely need to get a locksmith to come and take a look.  Not really too keen on taking the time or money, both of which I have to be sparing with at this time, and getting it out and mailing it to her.  She had asked if I can mail her a few of her sandals that she left etc.  Again, not sure how keen I am to spend my money and time taking care of her need to run without properly moving out.  This is a pattern of her in relationships.  I do have hopes that ours will be recovered still, however, even in her past relationships which I heard all about, she would mention she left this or that at an exs and never got it back. 

My question to everyone now is this, to the people who have been in relationships with someone that had BPD, and that person could admit it and seek out help and commit to the program, how long did it take to see real change?  How many people have known someone with BPD that admitted it, but was in and out of treatment and relapses, did they ever overcome it, how long did it take, and what was the defining moment for them to surrender and commit to help?

Thank you all!

[Hart_Payne]

Merkaba1,

I think you have an idea of what happened to your lockbox, but it bothers you to think of the possibilities. You can kill two birds with one stone. Have her dad mail the things  she wants and explain that you don't have the finances to do so. And explain that you would have give the things in the lockbox to her, but it's damaged (not by you) and again you don't have the money to repair it. If he could do it, it would be great.

And what you said about her family, I was wondering about myself. My spouses family are the enablers in my case, so months of headway that we make comes crashing down in a minute because they were/are the CEN in her life. Seems like hers are beneficial. Use that to your advantage. I was wondering if her grandmother was going to get on her nerves soon. Normal rationale at any point disturbs BPDs. Grandmother must have said something that made sense and it went against her BPD thinking, that's why she's venting. She need an ally against her push back.

And you're right as to why she can't have that conversation with you there. BPD is the answer. Admitting a flaw to the person they hurt is a sin to them. That's why the running takes place. Once you learn more about BPD it'll be easier to grasp, but it'll still stings.

[merkaba1]

I cannot say if her family helps either.  When she has no one else yes she will run to them.  However, the story was only half truthful; getting to know her family I heard the same stories from many different perspectives.  They will throw money at treatment all day and allow her to stay with them and basically be a freeloader whenever things go haywire.  I also think they are relatively clueless about what is really going on.  The place where she is living they do not understand this disorder at all and think she just needs to toughen up and snap out of it.  So for her, it may be a place where she can hide truths about what is going on inside of her emotionally plus take care of her needs financially. 

Earlier when she first moved in, the serving job I had was not what I had planned.  I took 2.5 years of tips and could safely figure within a window what my income would be.  I did a lot of budgeting before having her move in.  Well, when the job did start back up after a few months break, it was totally different and I was making about a third what I expected.  She receives disability income because of her mental illness.  When I moved her back from Florida after a failed rehab stint, I thought we would be working together in some fashion.  Although we didn't explicitly talk about finances when she moved in mainly because she was sensitive to everything that was going on, I didn't want to add to it.  The first few weeks were alright but I could see how her inability to save, and spend on things unneeded when living on a budget, I needed help.  We had talked a few times about helping her budget, but that always fell through.  The only times I did ask for money for rent things would always blow up.  I know finances are a huge trigger for her, but that makes things more difficult. So having parents who will give her money whenever, that is a safe place for her. 

I am fairly sure this will take some time to resolve.  Especially now that she is some 1000 miles away.  Michigan is a state she never wants to be in again. Mind you, the formative growth years for her were here, and with that, a lot of trauma locations are here too.  And hey, I get it, we have 50 states and some are better than others right? haha

Anyway, she never wanted to come back when she left for rehab.  So, two and a half months, and back to using again, she was devastated to come here.  She didn't give it much of a chance to enjoy it, but I think it was just very painful.  So now that she left again, I doubt she will make it back here any time soon. Although, who really knows.  At least right now, I would be happy for her to come back with our dog.  I also know that being in this climate is hard for her too.  I am curious how much BPD has an influence in the perspective on where one is living.  And I also know that going to Costa Rica is going to be great.  I do think being with me is difficult for her too.  She will see the reflection she needs to.  I am not the greatest at being consistent and totally constant in my emotions.  I am also a highly sensitive individual so I can be sure I am triggering.  I guess my point in this ramble outside of needing a place to express my feelings to people who get it, is I don't think I will see her for a while.  What do I do?  Starting this new job, I won't be able to take off and visit in Florida for a while, nor do I think she will come here to visit.

For those who have had a pwBPD leave/move out and wanted to be friends, came back?  What was the defining moment when you knew he/she was going to come or not come back?

[Bnonymous]

Hi Merkaba1,

I'm glad to hear she was supportive - I think that's important.

I'm also glad to hear she's in contact with you in positive ways. She might mean it about wanting to build a friendship now the relationship is over, or it might be her way of sitting on the fence, having-her-cake-and-eating-it, making you go-away-a-bit-closer etc. I'd wait this one out. Welcome the contact you get and resist any temptation to ask for clarification of what's going on - just give her space and see what happens. I know it's hard.

In answer to your question, my boyfriend would be classed as low functioning (unemployed, lots of fights and arrests, numerous suicide attempts, struggles with substance addictions... .). BUT I have some reservations about this way of looking at functioning, as it seems to focus on superficial outward signs of functioning v dysfunction and leaves little room for more subtle and inward aspects. For example, I would bet my boyfriend has more self-awareness and willingness to take responsibility than do a lot of traditionally "high functioning" pwBPD, so there's that.

I can't answer your questions about therapy and treatment as my boyfriend resists going down that route. He was willing to get diagnosed because he wanted to answers as to why he felt different to everyone else, but that's as far as he'll go. Unfortunately, he is very over-reliant on the idea of drugs as a cure-all - he really believes that if he pops the right pill into his mouth then everything will instantly get better. He is too afraid that he wouldn't survive therapy and a couple of therapists he saw (for one initial sounding-out consultation each) have actually agreed with this view - they consider that he is too unstable and too much of a suicide risk to be able to cope with the work involved in therapy and he agrees with them (I actually think differently, but I will respect his judgment on this and the fact that it's his call to make).

Yeah, he does the song thing too. And often the songs say completely different things to what comes out of his mouth. *laughs*  It can get almost comical - he can be hurling a stream of abuse and threats at me whilst at the same time playing songs filled with loving apologies. "Confusing" ain't the word. :-)

He has told me though that sometimes he feels "locked in" and that all the nicer things he's thinking and feeling seem trapped behind a dam inside him while the nasty stuff flows freely. We have come to realise that songs can be a way of breaking through that dam for him and sharing what he's feeling when he's unable to say it.

What sort of songs is yours sending?

[Hart_Payne]

Merkaba1,

It sounded like her family would have been an asset. I see that they're no different than my in-laws. They caused her BPD with the childhood emotional neglect (CEN). I believe it was on so many differenet levels, even when she feared of being attacked sexually, they dismissed her concerns. Then treated her like Cinderella. I'm starting to see a pattern that BPDs are created by their parents whether they want to admit it, or not. Generally the family seems dense and clueless. This doesn't help when non-BPD lovers need help in assisting our loved ones with getting better.

I think all living conditions are  affected with BPD. They see the world differently. Cold weather makes them feel bad, so everything is bad. No trying to adjust, because it's not their way. They can't control their emotions, so something like the weather... .forget about it

You should keep trying to be the best person you can and maybe she'll realize that maybe, just maybe that you have something that she needs and desires.

[Harri]

Hi merkaba   

You said: 

So having parents who will give her money whenever, that is a safe place for her.

Yes, it is safe, but it is 'safe' for everyone.  One thing to remember is that families function as a system with each part having a purpose.  Even if that family is dysfunctional, it is still a unit that will work to keep all parts functioning like always.  Change is hard no matter what part of the system is making the change as the whole thing will go off kilter.  So one possibility is they have learned over time to pacify her by providing for her.  Rather than having her stand on her own and learn to function and deal with the consequences of her own behaviors, they fix things for her... .and not just for her but for the system as a whole.

Not all people with BPD have it because of childhood abuse or trauma.  As a matter of fact 60% of pwBPD have a genetic cause and 40% is seen as being caused by childhood abuse (including emotional abuse or neglect like Hart_Payne talks about with his pwBPD).  It is also possible that an invalidating environment, without abuse, can cause it. 

[Hart_Payne]

Harri makes a good point. Yes, not all pwBPD are caused by bad parenting, there are genetics involved. And families in tuned with their members that do not notice the problems are upsetting. It's really terrible when outside people notices the faults and they're not even attached the BPD. What is one to do when the family is no help, the pwBPD refuses to seek help or worse yet doesn't believe they're at fault, and you're in love with them. But you refuse to be party to problem.

The thing is to understand the problem and try to make steps to gently nudge them in the right direct. That is if our heart and souls can and/or willing to weather the storm.

My wife did have a lot of invalidating experiences going on in her life. Can't prove it to her without therapy or without the emotional backlash, then running back to people (the dreaded family) she believes is her safety net. So I really understand for pain

[frvrphoenix]

For those who have had a pwBPD leave/move out and wanted to be friends, came back?  What was the defining moment when you knew he/she was going to come or not come back?
[/quote]

Hi Merkaba1. I have only joined yesterday... .seems like a month ago. I was reading through a lot of posts however I feel quite inadequate to give advices but I'll try to chip in any time I can. I know it helps a ton.
So to your question about the defining moment of when they may / may not come back... .from my own experience you will never know. It sucks of course. They may come back in a day, 3 weeks or years. I've been contacted by my exBPD a few weeks ago after not hearing from her for 5 years. One day sle left and teleported herself into my life years into the future. She said all the right things, went through treatment, saw her mistakes and was ready to get to know me. Sadly, there's no happy end. I let her in. It took her 3 weeks to turn my world upside down and inside out put me through a wringer and let me dry on my own. Luckyly I'm stronger than I was 5 years ago but still, it rocked me to the core. So the question is if you wish for that person to come back to your life. Only you have to know the answer and, someone already mentioned it here, don't sell yourself short. You know your own worth. All the best!