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Author Topic: NPD/"milder" situation, but it still hurts (continued)  (Read 581 times)
aslowrealization
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« on: November 25, 2018, 11:49:24 AM »

Mod Note:  part 1 of this thread can be found here:  https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=329589.0;all

Hello! I'm re-posting my last post from the previous thread below and am keeping this thread open to continue cataloging my experiences as needed... .but now that the big hump of the first encounter after my realizations is over, I'm hoping to shift to joining other threads and starting more general conversations in the future.

Thank you all for your continued support and I look forward to continuing with this and other conversations

--
For me, the healing from naming this and saying it out loud does not depend on saying it to her or having her accept or acknowledge it. Same goes for everyone in my family. It feels uncomfortable right now, that from my view I’m setting boundaries that may be written off by many or even most in my family as me being unwell. If that is the price of a chance at healing then I will take it.

I am now more aware that this is the very sort of gaslighting that can keep people trapped in abusive relationships. If the abuser switches gears suddenly when the target of abuse starts to pull away or changes the tone of interactions, suddenly the abuser puts on the “heeeeey, I’m a good guy. I’m just worried about you. You look sick.” act. Then the abused might be tricked into thinking “well they really are just a concerned and caring person, maybe something really is wrong with me and my perception.” Nope... .not today, ma’am.

I also remember what would happen if I acted how I actually felt. To be honest, I had a wonderful week and very enjoyable solo day on Wednesday. If I weren’t gray rocking it, I’d be cheery and bright. I would have loved to be able to talk about all the things I saw and did and some of the truly beautiful moments I’ve had since I saw her last... .but that’s not our relationship. When she asked me about work and I told her it’s been a bit busy leading up to the holidays, she immediately went into one of her stock stories about how she worked over one holiday at her job with a high status company over thirty years ago, but said “never again” because she has a family (she mentions her old job a lot, I’ve noticed, when she’s feeling insecure... .it came up a number of times over this visit... .my grad school graduation weekend was an absolute nightmare). I didn’t say anything about working over the holidays... .I just said were busy leading up to them. But she had to try and get a rank pull with a dash of “family first” guilt in anyway! This simple exchanged showed me that things could have gotten much worse if I expressed any joy about... .well, pretty much anything.

So, long story short, she can go ahead and think what she wants, as it’s not based on how I actually feel but rather how I have chosen to act around her right now to counter this behavior. Even then, there is nothing “unwell” about developing coping strategies for risky encounters with abusive people. If someone tries to write you off as unwell, even going to lengths of pulling from some external source of authority (eg- dreams, “hunches” or instincts, the false “I know you better than anyone” line, “so and so also said”), do not believe them, friends. They do not know the truth about what you’re feeling right now and they definitely do not know you better than anyone else.
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« Reply #1 on: November 27, 2018, 09:22:59 AM »

Hello again Aslowrealisation,

It has been quite some time since I joined in on this thread.
Reading through the last posts, it is wonderful to see how you can now objectively see what is happening.
I am from Europe,  and I had not realised Thanksgiving is so important and emotionally loaded.
Congratulations on your approach for Thanksgiving, for keeping your cool and keeping your emotional distance.
You can be proud of yourself!

Excerpt
. I would have loved to be able to talk about all the things I saw and did and some of the truly beautiful moments I’ve had since I saw her last... .but that’s not our relationship.
This struck a chord with me. It is true for my relationship with my mother as well. Are you at peace with this realisation? I still have a hard time accepting this, and I often need to check myself when interacting with my mother. I find it very hard to stay in the grey zone and not tell her about the colours in my life.

Excerpt
So, long story short, she can go ahead and think what she wants
Yes! Not only regarding the way you act around her at the moment, but for everything!
She is entitled to her feelings, just as you have the right to be who you are, think what you think, feel what you feel and live your life to the fullest.

Libra.



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aslowrealization
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« Reply #2 on: December 10, 2018, 07:47:56 AM »

This struck a chord with me. It is true for my relationship with my mother as well. Are you at peace with this realisation? I still have a hard time accepting this, and I often need to check myself when interacting with my mother. I find it very hard to stay in the grey zone and not tell her about the colours in my life.

Hi Libra! Thank you for your encouragement and for revisiting this thread after some time! Yes, there was a lot to work through in the weeks leading up to Thanksgiving. For many of us in the US, Thanksgiving can be *the* "family" holiday, since the whole festival is centered around eating a meal with family. There are many people who approach it differently, such as more of a community-focused meal, especially with those who may otherwise be left out, volunteering at a soup kitchen or shelter, or hosting what's know as "Friendsgiving" with their chosen family/tribe instead (all future options I am considering).

As for the question of sharing with my mother... .I have been working on accepting it but, as you mentioned, it's hard. It will probably always be a matter of choosing to refocus on that acceptance again and again to some extent. Although I've limited communicating with her about more serious or personal topics for some time, I do miss being able to chat with her about little things that we're both interested in. Or I'll see something positive or funny when I'm out and want to share/send a photo. It's hard to keep silent on even these trivial things... .but right now, with the phase of healing that I'm in, it's important.

After Thanksgiving, I actually told her I need space for a while (she sent a "concerned" text in response to my gray rock and this was my reply). So for a full week, I was completely free of contact and genuinely at peace. Work's been good and busy, which helps the days fly by. Some people may think spending the holidays alone is the saddest thing a person can experience... .but I've found that without an over-focus on the holiday=that block of time we spend with family on a certain day, that there's so much joy in the season itself. Church helps with this a lot, as do festive activities around town and giving myself permission to go out and enjoy more of what I like than usual, like films, museum exhibits, live music, dance performances.

But then, she started texting again. "I'm giving you space but are you OK?" (photo of her tree) "We don't know what this one is, do you know?" (it was one I'd given her to "represent" my home city). And yesterday, after we left off at Thanksgiving with "no gifts" I get an Amazon box with my name written in a way I never write it. Yep. It was a "Christmas gift" from her. A Christian devotional (I'm a Catholic and she never gives me anything specifically Catholic, always something she would prefer herself) with a note saying that she loves me more than I'll ever know.

I threw out the note and dropped the book off at my church's free library almost immediately but it was hard. It took a bit of fortitude not to fall for what on the surface appears to be a sweet and caring message. This sort of gesture from a non-abusive parent is beautiful. But then I thought about the timing. If she really wanted to give this to me as a Christmas gift, she would have waited until closer to the date. The choice of gift, again, something that she finds is good for her spirituality (I actually do not care for the "reading a day" sort of books though I muddle through them during certain seasons, like Advent or Lent). Even the note, invoking the "mother's love" paradigm (which I've been studying up on a bit to get a better understanding of the pressures my mom faced in the era when she raised us, quite often at the hands of media and advertising companies), with the "never know" reminding me that since I do not (and most likely won't) have children, she's always the better, more loving woman. This is her attempt at pre-holiday charming, trying to draw me back in. It felt like one of those Lifetime movie scenes, where the woman whose husband beat her one scene ago receives a gorgeous bouquet of flowers or expensive jewelry, and a little note. It took a few minutes, but the scales quickly fell from my eyes.

So that happened. I was not happy yesterday - re-entry shock a bit with the gift. But today I turn back to acceptance. This was to be expected. She's done this sort of thing before, it's no surprise. Today, I journey on with life.

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zachira
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« Reply #3 on: December 10, 2018, 09:56:11 AM »

I admire your courage and tenacity in doing the hard work it takes to overcome the continued mistreatment from family members. Posting here and letting us know what is going on a regular basis, and just letting yourself feel the hurt, while going on with your life, and enjoying what makes you happy, is key to your just feeling better and better with time, and being less negatively affected by your family members' mean behaviors. The opposite is stuffing the feelings, which leads to suddenly becoming overwhelmed by all the hurt and anger. It takes so much courage to face the pain, because at times it seems never ending. The more we face the pain, the more the are able to feel our joy, though at times, it just can feel so unbearable, because certain family members are never going to change, and oftentimes accelerate their bad behaviors, as the healthier members pull away. Keep us posted, and there is no such thing as posting too much. There are so many people on this site, who have posted for years, and are now enjoying happy lives, with much less interference from their disturbed family members.
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« Reply #4 on: December 11, 2018, 06:57:56 AM »

Hi zachira... .I very much appreciate your words and encouragement, especially saying that it's OK to post more often as needed. I struggle with feeling like a burden and like I may be a narcissist myself when I write longer and/or more frequent posts... .and this is part of what I am here to work on and heal through. I hope anyone else out there reading who may be feeling similar hears this too... .as much or as little as you need, you're never a burden and you are not selfish or greedy for feeling your feelings however you need to feel them to heal

A small update here... .yesterday, I got another text from uNPD mom... .she was writing to say that she saw that her first package had arrived the day before and that "a second one" was on the way. Here we go again... .bombs away. I texted back, simply asking for the tracking number and company, having already googled "how to stop package delivery" and read that it may be possible to do so. She texted back with the exact time that it had been delivered. As I was home for lunch, I went to my front door and, sure enough, it was there. Cookware. Another attack on my womanhood... .something she can throw the line "well, if you don't need it" behind when she gets the call she imagines this will result in. Nuh uh.

Friends, it's almost comical how quickly I opened it, submitted the return info, re-taped it, and had it dropped right back off at UPS*

I've also fully blocked her (as well as my sib) from calls and texts. I do not know if I will carry this for the rest of the holiday season, or even until after my birthday early next year (another minefield), but it's a decision I'm at peace with right now. I think I would like to try and keep it up, at least until the second week in January. I tried being open with her about needing space, and she's continuing contact, even taking it to the next level with these "gifts." I am an adult. She does not own me or "need" to know that I am "OK"... .and she has shown that she does not have respect for my explicit wish for a break. So we are fully blocked. Wish me luck and peace and strength against the inner demons telling me how wrong and evil this act is and the possibility that she will start to do even bigger and stranger things.

*If anyone knows a teacher or someone else who has one of those Amazon wish lists and could use something small (maybe $40-50), please PM.
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zachira
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« Reply #5 on: December 11, 2018, 09:36:29 AM »

"I very much appreciate your words and encouragement, especially saying that it's OK to post more often as needed. I struggle with feeling like a burden and like I may be a narcissist myself when I write longer and/or more frequent posts... .and this is part of what I am here to work on and heal through. I hope anyone else out there reading who may be feeling similar hears this too... .as much or as little as you need, you're never a burden and you are not selfish or greedy for feeling your feelings however you need to feel them to heal."
You have hit the nail on the head by realizing that expressing your feelings and setting firm boundaries with your mom are the keys to healing. It will take time and patience, and there will be days when you are overwhelmed, and other times when what is happening may be more in the background. The days when you are feeling really good are also times to post, as the continual check-in with self and others who really can hear what you feel, will help to prevent the moments of crisis from being so overwhelming and painful in the future, especially as time goes on and you are more present in your feelings from moment to moment. No feeling lasts too long if it is processed in the moment it arises. For that reason, I like to do quiet observation of my feelings for 30-60 minutes a day. The problem with having a self absorbed parent, is there a life time of sadness and anger, and sometimes it just hits you like a ton of bricks. We are here to listen anytime and help in any way we can. Know that you are setting an example for others, many who do not feel comfortable posting yet learn from what you are feeling and doing.
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« Reply #6 on: December 13, 2018, 02:36:08 PM »

HI!  I am going to join in with zachira and say post as much and as long as you like.  That is what this board is all about and why we are here.  Keep plugging away... .and posting.   

Excerpt
I've also fully blocked her (as well as my sib) from calls and texts. I do not know if I will carry this for the rest of the holiday season, or even until after my birthday early next year (another minefield), but it's a decision I'm at peace with right now. I think I would like to try and keep it up, at least until the second week in January... .I am an adult. She does not own me or "need" to know that I am "OK"... .and she has shown that she does not have respect for my explicit wish for a break. So we are fully blocked. Wish me luck and peace and strength against the inner demons telling me how wrong and evil this act is and the possibility that she will start to do even bigger and stranger things.
I do wish you peace, strength and compassion for yourself.  That voice that is telling you that it is wrong and evil (and selfish to post) is lying to you. 

If your mother does bigger and stranger things, that is on her.  You have handled this in a compassionate and rational way.  Her reactions are hers to own and you can not change them for her.

It was good to hear from you!
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« Reply #7 on: December 19, 2018, 05:20:48 PM »

Lord help me... .we're back online.

I check my mail today and find a card from my uncle (deceased father's brother, brother in law to my uNPD mother but also one of the people who was closely involved in her care during her surgery in the fall). It's a Christmas card.

With a very, very generous check enclosed.

Scary generous.

We're talking four figures, and not low four figures either.

He has sent money in the past, especially when I was a student and struggling young adult, but never anything near this. He and his wife are both retired now.

The check had a cryptic message on it as well, in the "Note" space: "It's only what it does."

I am absolutely certain that this has something to do with my lack of involvement with my mother for the past several months.

Money is nothing to sneeze at - I am a millennial still digging myself out of a pit of financial setbacks due to the recession and earning an hourly wage on contracts without full benefits until this year.

Money also forces acknowledgement or thanksgiving of some sort.

And, in a disordered family... .it is also debt, even when "given" freely.

I take the money, I "owe" her sick care and elder care and visits and attention. Or else I'm a bad person who just uses people for their money and doesn't "care" about them or "build relationships."

This is a shock. I want to believe it's a kind gesture. I want to believe that he just wants to help out and finds himself in a position to do so right now. Maybe he's done some life reflecting and just wants to share some of his blessings. Maybe it doesn't even have anything to do with my mother at all.

But... .I cannot respond to this right now in the chance that it's a flying monkey/charm attempt and may well wait until the New Year to respond. Maybe write a letter, explaining that I have reasons for limiting contact with my mother and will be setting new boundaries for the foreseeable future.

But that's JADE-ing. Not directly to the PD/uPD, but in response to her "move" by association.

Right now... .I just need a break, I need rest... .

My uncle and I are not particularly close, but he did reach out after Thanksgiving via text with a quick "how was the holiday?" Yet I also know that he and my father lost both of their parents at a young age (by their mid teens)... .and then my father passed away about 15 years ago.

We're all he has left.

I have a strong sense that if I talk to him at all, I will get a lot of "family is everything/hold on to family no matter what" guilt.

I don't know what to say. I knew something was coming and that "flying monkeys" would possibly be involved.

The "painting black to the entire family" is clearly underway... .

--
OK... .I wrote all of that after opening the check. Some time has passed now. I've decided I'm not going to rush a response on this. If he reaches out on Christmas Day via text, I will thank him but politely decline any attempts for a phone call. Again, there is the chance that this has nothing to do with my mom... .but given that he was so intimately involved with her care recently, it seems like a very slim chance... .I think I had it in the back of my mind that *something* would happen before the holidays were up... .and that it would involve other people in our family... .but I didn't know what. Now I've seen the what. Like before, this is not that shocking, given all I have learned about how PDs can gather their troops against a scapegoated person, one who refuses to cater to their will. It's happened, but I do not need to react to it. Even on Christmas.
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aslowrealization
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« Reply #8 on: December 22, 2018, 10:17:59 AM »

A small update as the holidays continue.

Things are better now. I had a snap reaction that came from a place of fear and uncertainty that brought out my defenses.

I've connected with both my uncle and my sib (who sent a gift - they weren't sure whether or not we were doing them since mom announced no, then sent them to both of us anyway). I thanked my sib and told them their gift (which I already have) will be in the mail soon.

Now back to enjoying a peaceful Christmas... .getting a lil baking done this morning. The plan for the rest of the holidays: pray (go to church), cook, get some time in the gym, and watch movies. Feeling very good about this plan 
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zachira
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« Reply #9 on: December 22, 2018, 10:37:44 AM »

I am just wondering like you are, if the check that you uncle sent you might be purely for benevolent reasons. You certainly know better than anybody else what might be the reasons. How did he respond when you thanked him? My parents had certain siblings that were the scapegoats, and my parents talked non stop about how terrible these siblings were, yet these aunts and uncles were so kind to me, and not the bad people my parents made them out to be. It has taken me years to realize what was going on. What is your uncle's and his wife's relationship with the family? Do be open to some family members being on your side, if there are some. Not everybody is a fool, and believes when another paints you black. There often comes a point when the lies told about another just don't add up. This is especially true when the victim of all the gas lighting becomes aware of what is going on, and starts to be the best person he/she can be no matter what others say. Who do you think is in your corner right now among your friends and family members? Your sibling and uncle sent you a gift despite your mother saying not to do so. As you get stronger and are more connected to yourself as a person worthy of love, you will indeed see more of the love that is coming your way, and be less affected by the mean behaviors of some of your family members. Have a Merry Christmas!
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aslowrealization
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« Reply #10 on: December 22, 2018, 11:23:39 AM »

Hi zachira! Merry Christmas to you too!

When I thanked my uncle, I mentioned that it would help with some situations that I have going on in my life right now and that I was grateful to him for thinking of me. He said that he was glad to hear it and glad that it would be put to good use. I think the timing of it spooked me, since it was just after all that happened with my mom this year... .but I also know that my mom made some negative comments about my uncle when we were talking about her support team for the surgery back in October (she didn't think he was invested in learning/keeping up with the details well enough and compared his intelligence negatively to her own and to my father's; she then went on to talk about how my sib had "confirmed" certain things about his intelligence... .all this when he was trying to help her). When I saw my mom and my sib at Thanksgiving, they both talked about how he couldn't "handle" the difficulties that came up after the surgery. I think there is a chance that he may have seen some of my mom's behaviors when he got involved with the surgery and some of his reactions may be the result of either confirmation or his own realizations. I do get the sense that she hasn't been pleased with him for some reason that she hasn't talked about specifically.

We lived near my uncle and his wife growing up but they were never super into visits, etc. for some reason (which my mom used to complain about)... .but whenever we did meet up with them, they have always been warm and kind and a real joy to be around. There was always this distance but it might be because of my mom's behavior towards them in the past... .they've all known each other since they were college kids so there's a lot that could have gone on between the two couples. After my initial reaction, I'm actually slightly more hopeful that he may be someone I can open up to about all of this at some point in the future. I realize that a lot of what I've heard about my uncle (which made me think he may be more on her side) has come from my mom's perspective... .and I definitely need to work on challenging that.

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« Reply #11 on: December 22, 2018, 11:32:35 AM »

Hi.  I am glad things turned out the way they did with your uncle.

Excerpt
I realize that a lot of what I've heard about my uncle (which made me think he may be more on her side) has come from my mom's perspective... .and I definitely need to work on challenging that.
Good for you for being open to this realization.  I found myself (and still do really) questioning so many thing I have believed and have found many distortions and out right lies.  It is not easy but so worth it to get to the point where we can assess a situation or a person without the distortions of another person. 

I would take things slow before sharing too much with him.  It could be that he has been looking for an opening with you for a while now though.  It is great that you were able to see and hear him.

 
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zachira
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« Reply #12 on: December 22, 2018, 11:54:13 AM »

I am so glad that you are realizing that your uncle does indeed care about you, and you are questioning some of the negative things your mother said about him. I would agree with Harri that it might work better to be careful what you share with him. One of my uncle's wives has been very supportive of me, though she does not always take my side. When I was in high school, she told my father that the favoritism towards my sister needed to stop, and he needed to give me some attention. Due to my aunt's intervention, my father started to spend lots of time with me. My aunt and I have talked throughout the years. Recently, I told her some things about my mother, and she told me she didn't think my mother could be that bad. I realize my aunt is onto my mother in many ways, yet she was never in my position. I would ask your uncle about his thoughts about certain things in the family and then listen. You will likely learn a lot. It is good you are questioning your mother's stories about your uncle. I sadly learned later in life that my aunts and uncles who were trashed by my father and mother on a constant basis, who did so much for me, were not at all the terrible people my parents made them out to be. My parents were threatened by the love and care my aunts and uncles showed me. They gave me what my parents could not. I did realize some of this before they died. I only wish I could have done more to show my appreciation for the big difference my aunts and uncles made in my life. As you talk with your uncle, I hope you will share with us what you learn, as some things will probably be quite overwhelming to hear, and he may not quite see things from your point of view. He sounds like a caring kind man that did not know how to help you when you were younger. Now that you are an adult, he probably feels safer in reaching out to you, because he can do so without your mother finding out, and causing worse problems than she is already doing.
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« Reply #13 on: December 26, 2018, 08:04:38 AM »

Well... .Christmas is cleared with minimal drama.

Had a mostly pleasant day... .cooked, took a walk, and watched a few calming movies.

Did get a group text (to uNPD mom, GC sib, and me) from my uncle saying "Merry Christmas from [his city]"... .sib replied with "Merry Christmas from [their city]" and I replied with "Merry Christmas from [my city]"... .without thinking. I didn't realize that he might have assumed we were all at mom's. Didn't think of it as a revelation until it was too late. Mom didn't respond to any of the texts.

My uncle then wrote to the general chat asking when was a good time for a call. We don't usually do Christmas calls (that I remember - it's one of those things that I always put up with at mom's from extended family in general). It wasn't clear who he was asking so... .I texted him back briefly on a private text to tell him that I appreciate his well-wishes but am on a bit of a break right now while I work out some family-related things.

Although I think that I might try and broach the issue with him eventually... .I'm not ready for holiday calls or any attempts to discuss it right now. It just seemed like too much of a risk, while I'm still a very raw nerve about a lot of these things... .and it didn't feel right to force myself into it. He didn't respond to the text.

Of course, I'm nervous about that. I'm sure he talked to sib and mom yesterday... .who knows what they've said. As far as his gift is concerned... .I wasn't planning on touching it for a few months at the very least. As hard as it is to face, while it's not a certainty, the possibility of him trying to buy "correct" behavior or contact and involvement from me is still on the table, and I have to be ready to accept that should it be revealed in time. Him not responding to the text doesn't feel great, but I'm trying not to assume anything. I don't think I was rude for not agreeing to something that could damage my mental and emotional health right now... .I was honest with him about the reason and even mentioned that it was nothing personal.
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« Reply #14 on: December 27, 2018, 02:29:57 PM »

This situation continues to unsettle me a bit... .my uncle never texted back after I admitted that I am “taking a break” from family. I texted him again earlier today just asking if he and his wife have any New Year’s plans, and no response to that text either.

I am doing all I can to not jump to conclusions and assume that this means that he’s upset with me or on her side about things... .but between this and spending the holidays alone, this is very difficult. I know that there can be a number of reasons why he’s not responding... .maybe he’s busy or maybe just doesn’t know how to respond right now... .but the silence is scaring me. There’s really nothing I can do - I’m doing my best to go about my business and enjoy the rest of the week. But this whole thing is just lurking in the background no matter what I do... .

I keep thinking: was I rude? Is it so wrong to take a (as of now) temporary break? I didn’t even get into the details but as far as he knows, there could be something very, very serious going on (not that this isn’t serious... .but it could be a number of things).

One good thing is coming out of this: I’m working my “sitting with discomfort” muscles, that’s for sure... .
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« Reply #15 on: December 28, 2018, 03:04:34 PM »

What if he is upset?  Would that change how you view the situation? 

Excerpt
But this whole thing is just lurking in the background no matter what I do... .
This makes sense.  You have changed things up.  You are engaging in different ways and changing long standing behaviors.  No matter how well planned this may have been, it will feel uncomfortable.  Every instinct you have is telling you his silence means he is upset and that somehow is your responsibility.  That is what you have been trained to do and think for decades so changing it will cause fear and anxiety and it is going to feel hard to deal with and it is going to keep nagging at you.

It gets better.  Are you feeling pulled to do something to make these uncomfortable feelings go away?  What could you do to make that happen?  Would it fit with your goal of having a more healthy life where you don't get caught up in the dram and chaos?

Let's talk this through.   
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« Reply #16 on: December 29, 2018, 08:26:59 AM »

What if he is upset?  Would that change how you view the situation?

Now that I actually think about it... .no, it wouldn't change my view of the situation. I would not change what I've learned about my FOO dynamics these past few months based on his being upset given the information that he currently has (which is nothing from my perspective apart from the fact that I'm taking a break and "working on things"). He has the right to be upset. On the surface, the timing of it is really terrible with her having major surgery/illness and, unless she ended up spending time with other family or friends, being alone at Christmas (it seems my sib ended up staying in their city too based on the Christmas group text). Maybe he even feels guilty now, if he didn't know she would be alone before (assuming she was), since he is the closest family to her, geographically speaking. Being alone at Christmas when others choose not to spend it with you is hard  - I can acknowledge that. I can see how someone would consider preventing it a "suck it up no matter what and cater to that person" moment... .and that would be the case... .if the abuse were not from that very same person. I've had a number of "suck it up and do it no matter what you feel" moments in life and I know that I am capable of doing that (rather than being selfish and "always just doing what's best for me" which is how my uNPD mom tells me I am... .then there's an extra helping I get from society as a woman without a spouse or kids). This is a serious and special case where I've found that I cannot do that right now.

Are you feeling pulled to do something to make these uncomfortable feelings go away?  What could you do to make that happen?  Would it fit with your goal of having a more healthy life where you don't get caught up in the dram and chaos?

Let's talk this through.   

Thank you for offering to talk through this with me   To be honest... .yes. For about three days, I was really buried under some very nasty feelings. It felt like it would never go away, even as I did some things to try and relax (saw a movie, took a hot bath). Since there wasn't much I could do in terms of contact without risking my mental health without access to T (sometimes I actually time difficult boundary moments and revelations with when I know I have a session), I didn't think of trying to reach out or break contact to get more information. The impulse was there, though... .as if that might make it go away. Eventually, that feeling of being cast out, of being so alone and terrified about it, has gone. I'm still alone, objectively speaking. And I know that the possibility of not having a friend or a compassionate understanding from him is still on the table. But I don't feel that primal fear right now. It's a scary place... .time healed it, but when you're in it, it doesn't feel like it will ever get better.
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« Reply #17 on: December 30, 2018, 08:50:02 PM »

Excerpt
I know that I am capable of doing that (rather than being selfish and "always just doing what's best for me" which is how my uNPD mom tells me I am... .then there's an extra helping I get from society as a woman without a spouse or kids).
  Yeah.  That distorted vision your mother had of you (I talked a bit about this in your other thread).  Can you say Projection or is it entitlement?  Can't tell.  I swear my thought having kids meant she would have servants or the rest of her life.   If I did not do something she wanted me to do I was selfish, evil, inconsiderate... .  She never saw me, only her and her own needs.
 
Excerpt
It's a scary place... .time healed it, but when you're in it, it doesn't feel like it will ever get better.
Very true.  But you got through it.  Each time you battle with yourself like this, it will get easier and easier.  Getting through the immediate discomfort (pffft!  I said discomfort, it is more like torture!)  by going back to old ways is tempting but changes nothing in the long run.  Also, nothing heals when we do that. 

Excellent work!   
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« Reply #18 on: December 31, 2018, 07:26:12 AM »

Thank you, Harri

re: lifelong service: Even a lot of healthy-minded people believe that children=automatic friend once they're adults and automatic caretakers when you're old and/or sick. Maybe the abuse started as soon as she saw (or someone made) a comment about me not being the type who is easily manipulated or controlled and, taking it as a threat or indictment of her, she punished me for not being her built in servant from day one... .I can write a whole post about unintentional PD behavior fire-stoking that may have occurred when others have said things to her, especially during my teen years (she has told me about some of these things from time to time), but I don't know how helpful of an exercise that would be apart from with my T. Maybe we could start a more general discussion about how others showing genuine love, compassion, admiration, or just making a small compliment about our traits, appearance, skills, etc. may or may not have fueled the abuse and eventually fear of abuse in us. It's painful to think that some of our parents could feel so negative about anyone noticing us in any positive way, and I think this can contribute to a fear of being noticed/standing out or simply feeling that being invisible is best due to associating pain with being noticed/standing out... .I know I feel this way now, always terrified of being noticed for fear of drawing negative treatment from others or even from feeling too build up by positive remarks (anyone got fleas? haha).

Finally did get a text back from my uncle about New Year's plans... .he said that he would be "sitting at home with his feet up"... .I really don't want to read into that at all... .but, to me, it is interpretable as a personal attack on me choosing not to be more involved. In the past, he may have said something like "oh, it'll just be a quiet one" or "just planning to rest"... .this expression is the type of thing that... .yes... .my mother would say. It's one that, to me, implies resting when it's either hard-earned or when the expectation is that we do something active and involved.

I told him it was a good plan - and meant it.

I am choosing to believe that he means that he is ready to just chill (as many people are at all ages) with the whole New Year's Eve thing and that it's not a personal attack. I'm trusting that his answer to my question about him is really just a response showing how he feels about an upcoming holiday, not a hidden message revealing the "truth" of how he feels about me. It's hard when my mind has been trained to be on alert for attacks that I "deserve" for being such a horrible person... .and right now it takes a minute for my mind and my body (I can feel very tense and nervous) to catch up... .but it's happening just a tiny bit smoother each time.
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« Reply #19 on: January 03, 2019, 07:12:18 PM »

Excerpt
I can write a whole post about unintentional PD behavior fire-stoking that may have occurred when others have said things to her, especially during my teen years
I read this and I just started nodding my head... .I think I get it.  If you want to post about it go ahead.  If it is productive to you do it!  That is what we are here for. 

Excerpt
Maybe we could start a more general discussion about how others showing genuine love, compassion, admiration, or just making a small compliment about our traits, appearance, skills, etc. may or may not have fueled the abuse and eventually fear of abuse in us.
I think this is excellent and I know I would like to talk about it so why not start it?  Let's see where it goes.  I bet others can relate too.

Excerpt
I know I feel this way now, always terrified of being noticed for fear of drawing negative treatment from others or even from feeling too build up by positive remarks (anyone got fleas? haha).
Whew, just reading this got my stomach turning and my head buzzing a bit.  You helped me make a connection.  I had forgotten about other people influencing how my mother treated me.  Thanks for that, I was missing it.

Excerpt
I told him it was a good plan - and meant it.
Excellent!  Take stuff at face value and respond accordingly.

Excerpt
... .and right now it takes a minute for my mind and my body (I can feel very tense and nervous) to catch up... .but it's happening just a tiny bit smoother each time.
Good for you! 
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« Reply #20 on: January 04, 2019, 10:26:15 AM »

Yes, let’s get that fire-stoking topic going then, as it might lead to some new realizations for a number of us. I can start it up later on in a new thread 

I just wanted to share two small realizations that have come in this time of NC. The first is... .I was cooking a holiday dish last night. It’s a family side dish, something simple that I had learned to make from my mother several years ago... .but always second-guessed myself when I did it. Did I add the right amount of water? Stir it too much? Is the pan the right temperature? The voice of criticism telling me that mine will never be “like mom’s” never left.

Until yesterday.

For the first time in my adult life, I felt like I was a legitimate person, carrying on this tradition and doing it well. Not that it’s perfect every time or better than anyone else’s... .but there was this feeling of ownership, of doing it “for real” and of feeling like I had the freedom to add my own twists and “secrets”... .this is huge for me. Cooking is one of those areas where a troubled relationship with one’s mother can rear its ugly head and cloud your head with doubt. But the distance seems to have made space for me to... .step into it. Separate from her.

The other thing is feeling guilty... .for being happy and well-rested right now. As I ease back into work, I see many people who are tired, weary, some have bad coughs. Some probably miss their families and are not super glad that vacation time is over... .others may be facing hardships. There is a lot going on right now (when isn’t there really)... .but I feel better than I have in months. I’m getting used to not being poked and prodded and guilted... .and I don’t know if I can give this up, even in a couple month’s time.
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« Reply #21 on: January 04, 2019, 11:45:00 AM »

You are enjoying life now that you have gone NC, rested and relaxed, and even able to enjoy cooking without hearing your mother's critical voice in your head. I admire how you have chosen to do NC at the right time. In my experience, NC exists on a spectrum. There are those who go NC yet feel endlessly unhappy because they have not done the work they need to do to be a separate and happy individual from the person with BPD/NPD in their life. Then there are those who are ready to enjoy being NC because they are ready to be a separate and happy individual, no longer overwhelmed and tortured by the person with BPD/NPD. As a person who is doing NC that is enjoying life and no longer overwhelmed by guilt for your choice to have your own life separate from your mother, would you be willing to share the steps in personal growth that you have taken to get to where you are? So many of our members would like to be able to do NC and feel the way you are, and really do not know how to get there. I am so happy for you, and thank you for posting and allowing us to share in your joy.
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« Reply #22 on: January 04, 2019, 12:22:40 PM »

Hi zachira, thank you for your message. As far as NC is concerned, I should mention first that what we’re on is a time-bound NC (I told her until a specific month). I am not sure what the next step is going to be when that month arrives, but am working with my T each step of the way.

So it might be a bit easier (it’s never easy... .but easier) seeing as this isn’t a “goodbye forever” type of NC... .and it may be something that people can apply to their own situation? As long or as short as is helpful to you, that gives you space to grow or cry or mourn or a combination of those things or anything else you might need. In my case, I had gotten to a point where I tried setting up boundaries and communicated that need with my mother, but those boundaries were broken and the behavior was causing more distress than I could take on and continue to cope emotionally at the time. When I told my T about it, she said that this method provides a clearer sense of action-result (boundaries were pushed/broken-result is NC for x months) that can make the situation less anxiety provoking for someone exhibiting PD traits. So in this way there might be less panic involved and the types of reactions that can produce (I’ve heard of everything from “what have I done to deserve this” messages through social media or email to people calling their loved one’s workplaces to calling police on someone claiming that they are a danger to themselves or others as a way of “checking in”).

The usual full disclaimer on this about not being a mental health professional, and certainly consult someone who knows your specific case regarding specific steps that might work for you... .and I’m learning as I go, not even knowing what I will do when “time is up”... .but it’s something to consider.

As for my particular life story and everything that’s made me who I am... .too much to post! And I cannot be sure what helped specifically... .apart from support (in my case, my faith helps a lot, as well as my T and this board! - for others it might be friends, family allies, etc.). I also realized that I was essentially very LC for a very long time (years) and so this step wasn’t as big as it might be in other cases.

I still miss her from time to time... .for instance, with movie/tv awards season kicking off this weekend, one of the things we used to do is text comments and celebrations to each other throughout all the awards shows... .but then I remind myself of little moments like with the cooking... .and feel grounded in my choice to do this right now once again.
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« Reply #23 on: January 04, 2019, 12:43:29 PM »

It makes sense that you are doing one month of no contact. This is certainly a good period of time to be free of the emotional distress over interacting with your mother. It is also understandable that you do not want to go permanent NC with her, because she is your mother, and there are some things you do enjoy with her. I recently took a long trip of several weeks in which I had no direct contact with the members of my family with BPD/NPD, only sporadic post cards and emails. I healed for the first time from all the abuse, and finally feel joyous for the first time about the life I am leading. When I am in contact with them now, what they do doesn't just bother me that much anymore. I hope that when you reestablish contact that you will not be that much affected by your mother's distressing behaviors. I have heard that one phone call a week with a family member with BPD/NPD can be enough to prevent a person from being able to heal at all. You are seeing your therapist, posting here, and know what it feels like to not have to interact with your mom. Reestablishing contact with your mother will hopefully go better than you think. For now, enjoy your peace and quiet, and try not to think about what reconnecting will be like. This is your time and you deserve to enjoy it.
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« Reply #24 on: January 16, 2019, 02:28:36 PM »

Just a quick update on my NC situation with my (uNPD) mother... .

It's going well and I'm still at peace with the decision and appreciating the growth that's coming with this season apart. Now that I'm through the "just breathe" part of it all... .I'm starting to consider the future and what it might look like in terms of contact (or lack thereof).

For the first time since I started NC, I'm able to open my mind to the possibility of some form of LC (less than what I was doing previously) without feeling panicked or trapped. I'm not taking this as meaning that I should resume contact, either in the near future or at all... .I'm just observing it as my experience and my feelings right now.

But this openness has allowed me to hypothetically consider what a new normal LC might look like. I recall someone on here telling me very early on that boundaries are what we set on our side and are reflective of our values and needs... .rather than restrictions on the behavior of the other person. If that is the case... .how do you structure mindful boundaries? Is there a shift in your thinking from (for example) "no phone calls" to "I do not allow someone to talk at me and use me for one-way 'venting' unless they ask first"? And then do you decide what you'll do if and when that boundary is crossed (e.g.- "If someone talks at me and uses me for one-way 'venting' and does not respond to X attempts to break the conversation into more of a dialogue, I will end the conversation.").

I think I may need to get a better handle on all the triggers that come up when we interact and start to pick out how they impact me and how I can restructure some of these "no xyzs" into the form of the example above. Does anyone have any ideas on how to do this? I think I may start by making a chart listing out all of the behaviors that I've experienced under each form of communication, then try and determine what value of mine they conflict with... .but if anyone's come across or created anything that helps with this, please let me know!
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