I'm experiencing a lot of remorse

[Harlygirl]

Hi all ... .I've been researching BPD ... .and not sure if in doing so I'm feeding into the guilt I still feel in ending the relationship with BPD exbf and going NC ? Recently heard from BPD exbf's family member ... .and it was related to me that BPDexbf spent this past Holiday alone.  Emotionally  ... I'm experiencing a lot of remorse ... .in that in watching a video that explains how BPD works ... .family members of BPD persons have verbalized that the most important thing in relating to the BPD person is to validate their feelings ... .so these feelings can be "let out"  ... .As the NonBPD ... I know and understand these skills (SET ) and have tried to use them in the past ... .prior to NC ... .But the video does not address how ... .when in the " letting out " of these intense emotions ... .The non BPD can become the target of abusive behaviors associated with those intense emotions ... .as I have experienced this over and over again ... .So where do we ... as nonBPD signicant others and family members ... .draw the line ... .Do we stand there as the BPD exbf abuses us ... .all the while trying to keep in mind that all of this abuse should not be taken personally ?  I understand why and how these behaviors are triggered ... .But shouldn't  the BPD exbf accept responsibility for the pain and abuse that is inflicted upon the Non BPD ? Are they capable of doing so ? Do we expect too much given  their limitations  ? Do we expect too little ... .and allow ourselves to be victimized ? Why am I still soo confused about what do ?

[Harlygirl]

Hi Once Removed ... .I guess I'm feeling a little stuck in the same mindset ... .That without me he is alone and lost ... As that is how he sees himself ... .For 3 years I supported him in his struggles with alcohol abuse , depression and anxiety ... .in his relationship conflicts with his adult children ... .and the constant betrayals he endured in his relationship with his own mother and brothers (BPD family ) ... .Now that I am no longer in his life ... .he is very much alone.  His grown children sound like they have given up ... .And have essentially removed themselves from his life ... .He has grand babies that he's not met because his daughters have been so hurt (emotionally )... .Because the abuse was escalating again (in his relationship with me ) ... .I absolutely feel right in making sure I was protected by court order ... .In family court he did acknowledge his abusive behaviors in front of the judge ... .And verbalized a desire to seek couples counseling with me ... .but I was so sickened by his behaviors ... .and that he had no regard for how those behaviors were affecting my D13 ... .that I flat out refused... .I can't seem to stop empathizing with his dilemmas ... .more often than not... .created by the limitations of the disorder ... .as they are very real ... .Did I try everything I could ? Would couples counseling have worked ? Is this just wishful thinking ... .and my getting sucked back into his chaos? No ... .I don't want to return to the relationship ... .and I don't want to abandon him ... .Very confused by my own feelings I guess... .

[Turkish]

I think that "empathizing with his dilemmas" may be a large part of what drew many of us to stay. 

The core feelings of a pwBPD are feeling worthless and unlovable.  The dysfunctional coping mechanisms stem from riser feelings. Unless the person is willing to really confront these core feelings,  couples' counseling isn't likely to go anywhere.  Been there,  done that. 

[H2H]

Exactly, Turkish. Until he can take responsibility for dealing with his (admittedly painful) feelings, nothing good can happen.

Harlygirl, I can understand the emotional dilemma. I feel it too. I had pretty good emotional skills during our marriage, good at listening, validating, supporting, being assertive without being mean or blaming (not claiming to be perfect, I never was that!) But I  did love and support and encourage my husband, I never once saw him as worthless. I still don't.  The problem was, when he got abusive, he didn't even see me, he only saw an enemy. It really didn't matter how kind or honest or accepting or angry I got. Nothing made much difference. It really was all about his own feelings of worthlessness and lack of identity.

We tried marriage counseling for a year. It didn't work. He is very good at getting sympathy, he seems to need constant validation, and the counselor was always on me to understand him better, be kinder, understand how much he hurt.  To be fair, he was originally diagnosed with PTSD, and that’s what the counselor was working on.  But he never completed his homework, not once in the year, and never changed his behavior. He was still abusive, destroyed our finances, isolated me,  raged at me. Even when I developed PTSD myself, even times I was suicidal, somehow I was supposed to carry the emotional load for both of us. I couldn't do it. He was not capable of seeing me as a human being with feelings, probably because he can’t see himself that way.

He has gone so far downhill in the year we’ve been living separately. He looks terrible physically. He's calling the crisis line several times a day.  He’s been in treatment for several years now, he still has lots and lots of support, from the VA, from AA, from church, from counseling, from DBT group, from friends.

He still hasn’t done the work to change. He still gets angry at me without warning (we're in the process of separating, and I need to be in contact to get finances straightened out). He can’t look at anything he's done wrong.  It's so important to him that he see himself as a good guy. I think he's always battling inside. He can’t bear to own what he did wrong, because it makes  feel worthless again, but when he can’t acknowledge mistakes, he can’t change. Somehow he has to be willing to let go of both ideas, that he can’t make mistakes and that he’s worthless. Then he can become who he really is. But he’s too afraid. It’s a self defeating, self enclosed,  very powerful system. No matter how much I love him and want to help him, I can’t touch it.  I can acknowledge how much pain he is in, without taking responsibility for him. That’s what I’m working on! I’m still confused and my heart wants to help him. It’s so hard to get that he can’t let real love in.

I don’t know if that fits your exbf, it’s what my stbxh was like. It sounds like you made the right decision for yourself and your daughter though. Maybe these feelings of empathy are just part of the process of healing.

[Harlygirl]

Thank you Turkish... .and H2h... .When I think back on that day in court ... .I knew... in my gut ... .that couples counseling would just be another forum for him to engage  in ... .react to ... .his distorted perceptions ... .that the real issues that drive his behaviors could not be addressed in this way ... .In doing so ... .I would have been the one carrying that responsibility as well ... .And continuing to put myself and my family at risk ... .I knew that ... .I wish my feelings would stop flip flopping ... .Thank you both for your insights ... .and H2h ... .your story is soo very similar to mine ... .It's amazing to hear you describe your situation ... .and validating ... .It's almost as though the NC makes it easier for me to be reminded of how it feels to love him ... .now that I feel safer ... .When I felt unsafe ... .I had to shut those feelings down ... .

[toomanydogs]

Hi Harlygirl,
  I was married for 10 years to a BPD, who is now my STBX. We have been NC for more than a year as we go through the divorce.
  I had such sympathy and empathy for that man. I loved him unconditionally, saw his behaviors as indicative of his illness. However... .
  He used to call me the 'c-word' about as often as other husbands call their wives 'honey' or 'dear.' My STBX's psychiatrist advised me to get used to being called a 'c-word' as it was my STBX's childish way of lashing out when he was hurt.
  When STBX left, he sent me emails where he used the 'c-word' preceded by die. I reported the emails to the police.
  Over the past year, my sympathy and empathy have switched to myself. I hadn't realized just how emotionally exhausted I'd been.
  I continue to believe that BPD is treatable, but my STBX has no interest in getting better. Possible but highly unlikely that he is now somehow "better." My FIL has told my lawyer that my STBX is now all better and wasn't of sound mind when he married me.
  I feel/believe that my good nature, my tendency to see the best in everyone, and fight for those I love was betrayed by my STBX, his psychiatrist (not this therapist, by the way), and my FIL.
  Eventually, I will forgive the betrayal, but not now. Eventually, I will once again accept BPD as a treatable disorder. Not now. Right now, I feel like I spent 10 years in the presence of evil.
  He has twisted every good, decent thing that we had; he has maintained that I threatened his life. I have compassion fatigue.
  Sorry, I didn't mean to go on with my own story. Yours unleashed a lot of feelings.
 
TMD

[Notwendy]

HG, these feelings are confusing. I have a BPD mother who at times, can appear perfectly recovered and wonderful, and then, also be abusive.

IMHO ( I'm not a professional )I think BPD is treatable under certain criteria. This doesn't mean all pwBPD are treatable or untreatable if some of them are. I look at the individual.

For any mental illness, or physical condition, the person has to want to be treated and want to have professional help for themselves. They can not "go through the motions" and do it just to keep their partner or family member. I think recovery is a slow process that takes time and personal work. It isn't an instant process.

For my BPD mother, she doesn't show accountability for her actions. When she switches into "good mode" she expects the response to be instant. I call it the "dry erase" method. All gone, in an instant, like erasing dry erase ink off a white board. My BPD mother does not acknowledge she needs professional help or want it. She has referred to therapy groups as " I don't belong with those people" when the people in the group are a lot like her.

For these reasons, I do not believe she is treatable at this time. Since she is elderly and has been this way most of her life, I don't see this changing.

Emotionally, navigating my relationship with her has been difficult. I don't think it is right to allow her to abuse me. I also know she is mentally ill. However - there is one bottom line for me and that is my children.

PwBPD tend to relate to others on the Karpman Drama Triangle. "Victim" is one of those roles and although there are situations where adults are relationship victims, there are also times where adults have choices and then face the outcome of those choices. They are not true victims if they are adults with choices.

True relationship victims are those who have no choice in the relationship, people who may be physically harmed, some elderly people, and also children. Your child has no choice about who you choose to bring into her life. She can not leave home if your BF is around. She has no income of her own. She is entirely dependent on you to keep her safe and protect her mentally. Your BF is alone on the holiday due to his own behavior and choices. You feel sorry for him, but he is not a victim. Your 13 year old is a potential victim. As her parent, you are responsible to her first.

[I Am Redeemed]

Hi Harlygirl,

I just want to say I understand where you are coming from and the conflicted feelings you are having. I have been separated from my uBPDh for one year and about a month ago I chose to go NC because it was clear his abusive behavior is not changed nor is he interested in getting help for it. His only offer of getting "help" was for he and I to do a marriage-based Bible study with virtual strangers (he met this man while he was in jail; the guy came to do Bible study with the inmates, and I never met him or his wife.)

Couples counseling is not generally recommended in relationships where there is dv because the perpetrator will take what is shared in counseling and use it to further abuse the victim.

Also, domestic abuse is NOT a "couple's issue"- it is an "individual's issue"- and when an abuser only offers couple's counseling as a means of "taking responsibility" and "acknowledging there is a problem" it is really just a way of evading accountability- they don't want to be the one singled out for their bad behavior, so they try to make it a "we" issue not a "me" issue.

H2H, your story could literally be mine, almost word for word. No matter what kind of support my uBPDh gets (church, AA, etc.) he does not progress because he refuses to honestly look at the core issues which means he will never learn tools to fix them. You can't fix something when you won't acknowledge the diagnosis. Putting new tires on a car will not fix the alignment.

There is a part in the book Alcoholics Anonymous that is read before every AA meeting, from the section "How It Works" that says that "there are those, too, who have grave emotional and mental disorders, but many of them do recover if they have the capacity to be honest".
Without looking honestly at one's self, recovery from substance abuse disorder (or any other disorder) is not going to happen.

I felt really sorry for uBPDh too, because he had to spend Thanksgiving with a co-worker who invited him over, but that went out the window when he called his mother up and started whining to her about how it wasn't right that he had to spend the holiday with a friend and not his family (he didn't know s2 and I went to his mother's without him for thanksgiving and I was there when he called; she didn't tell him.) It's totally his own fault that he did not get to see his family. But he perpetuates his "victim" status to anyone who will listen, blaming me for the end of the r/s, accusing me of seeing someone else, doing drugs, etc. Anything but the truth, which is that I finally saw that he was not going to get any help because he doesn't think that the abuse he heaped on me, that he exposed our children to, was that big of a deal. He is only interested in himself and his own feelings.

I think you made the right decision to protect yourself and your daughter. I understand all the second guessing and guilty feelings, but when it comes down to it, there is nothing you could have done or could now do to make an abuser stop abusing.

Blessings and peace,

Redeemed

[Cromwell]

Hi HarlyGirl

In all the time researching the condition, browsing boards such as this. Ive came across maybe one or two declarations (from the who 'previously' had BPD) that they had been through therapy and been cured.

A psychiatric nurse told me that a personality disorder by itself does not at all mean that the person doesnt know what they are doing is wrong, or is not in control of their behaviour. BPD feature high in prison populations - the disorder (not an illness) is not mitigation.

Watching videos etc can really muddy the waters in getting a clear perspective, especially when they elicit emotional feelings in what already is an emotionally driven backdrop. As once removed mentioned, there is variety out there, your ex is not the same person as the person in the video, these are individual narratives, just like every story and dynamic reported on this board.

conflating a personality disorder and the term mental illness that can be treated and cured is opening a debate in itself.

This was to answer the last question where you state the confusion you have, yet if you re-read the post there is a lot of stuff youve taken on board and present as being assumed established facts which really are instead generalisations.

A personality disorder doesnt just appear one day, it is hardwired stuff from early stages in development. Using skills or tools is just coping or managing it is not intrinsically changing the other. When I started to use a different strategy with my BPDx, it seemed at that moment in time to make a difference, but all it led to was her finding a more subtle and less direct confrontational approach in the future. She didnt change, but her tactics did.

[MeandThee29]

Treatable, but my therapist has only had a few really get to a point of mostly normal thinking in her many years of practice. It also depends on if they have traits of BPD and are basically functioning in life versus severe inner turmoil, constant reactivity, and withdrawal from most close relationships. There's a lot to overcome and work through if you are on deeply ingrained in BPD thinking. My therapist wasn't at all encouraging, but acknowledged that miracles do occur, although infrequently.

I read an article some months back (can't find it now) from a professor/therapist detailing his experience with BPD. He had only one truly successful case of someone who was far down the spectrum who came back to normal thinking. She had a baby and had decided that she had to be there for her child and would do anything to get there. It took a long time, but when he wrote the article, she was working and the child was in school and doing well. At that point, the individual was seeing the therapist just a few times a year.

It took me a long time to see that I couldn't get him through this. Very little could have been done to change where this went apart from him being willing to dig into his core beliefs and thinking. It's taken me over a year to get out of the victim mentality myself, and I don't have a personality disorder. These things truly don't get better quickly.

[Lucky Jim]

Do we stand there as the BPD exbf abuses us ... .all the while trying to keep in mind that all of this abuse should not be taken personally ?  I understand why and how these behaviors are triggered ... .But shouldn't  the BPD exbf accept responsibility for the pain and abuse that is inflicted upon the Non BPD ? Are they capable of doing so ? Do we expect too much given  their limitations  ? Do we expect too little ... .and allow ourselves to be victimized ?

Hey Harlygirl, These are excellent questions.  I thought that I could crack the BPD Code, but BPD proved too much for me.  It's an incredibly complex disorder, in my view, that often defies rational analysis.  Eventually I had to accept that the anomalies are just part of BPD, if one elects to stay in a BPD r/s.  I lacked the endurance.

Like Redeemed and Turkish, I doubt that couples counseling would have made a difference, so don't beat yourself up about it!

LuckyJim

[Stillstruggling]

I agree. Don't beat yourself up. You can only extend yourself as far as is healthy for you.

[Harlygirl]

Wow ... .Every time I check into these boards I'm amazed at the insights and support that are here ... .it's like putting on a pair of 3D glasses and being able to see clearly through what can become very murky, and a disorienting experience ... .




(Especially over the Holidays )... .Thank you all so much ... .

[once removed]

Every time I check into these boards I'm amazed at the insights and support that are here ... .it's like putting on a pair of 3D glasses and being able to see clearly through what can become very murky, and a disorienting experience ... .

stick around  . work through these things with members. it will help.