feeling insecure

[Depression = 72% of members]

Hello everyone,

I have posted in this thread before - she is leaving please help.

I felt this could use a new post; feel free to read the above thread if you want some back story.

I am trying at this point to reverse a break-up.  My pwBPD left and lives in another state.  She left abruptly while I was away.  We still talk every day and say I love you.  She mentioned in frustration on the phone the other day that she now, due to not trusting me (for some valid reason) now looks at everyone differently.  I was "the first person she could open up and be herself 100% of the time, be authentic and truthful with... " etc.  So, now she is complaining that she can tell every guy she meets just wants to f*** her.  She is a beautiful woman so I don't doubt this is true.  She met with an old friend last night who happened to be staying with grandparents and it was nice but then sent a message after hanging out about how she looked good etc.  Anyway, in talking, I expressed how sad I was and how much I missed her and wanted to be near to her etc.  She was sad and expressed much of the same.  So tonight in talking she mentions one of her other friends has moved back to the area.  This has been a long-standing guy friend who in her way of being mean has said she ought to just date him etc. So, this is the first time she'll be seeing him in 2-3 years.  Why do I feel so insecure about this?  Is this insecurity an intuition kind of thing or more of a fear thing?  

I'm having a hard time trying to work this back into my favor.  I am trying to get her to see the good in me again.  How can I do this, when I'd be lying if I were to say I was doing well?

Any advice or a personal story would be greatly appreciated!

[merkaba1]

Hello everyone,

I have posted in this thread before - she is leaving please help.

I felt this could use a new post; feel free to read the above thread if you want some back story.

I am trying at this point to reverse a break-up.  My pwBPD left and lives in another state.  She left abruptly while I was away.  We still talk every day and say I love you.  She mentioned in frustration on the phone the other day that she now, due to not trusting me (for some valid reason) now looks at everyone differently.  I was "the first person she could open up and be herself 100% of the time, be authentic and truthful with... " etc.  So, now she is complaining that she can tell every guy she meets just wants to f*** her.  She is a beautiful woman so I don't doubt this is true.  She met with an old friend last night who happened to be staying with grandparents and it was nice but then sent a message after hanging out about how she looked good etc.  Anyway, in talking, I expressed how sad I was and how much I missed her and wanted to be near to her etc.  She was sad and expressed much of the same.  So tonight in talking she mentions one of her other friends has moved back to the area.  This has been a long-standing guy friend who in her way of being mean has said she ought to just date him etc. So, this is the first time she'll be seeing him in 2-3 years.  Why do I feel so insecure about this?  Is this insecurity an intuition kind of thing or more of a fear thing?  

I'm having a hard time trying to work this back into my favor.  I am trying to get her to see the good in me again.  How can I do this, when I'd be lying if I were to say I was doing well?

Any advice or a personal story would be greatly appreciated!

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Radcliff]

Can you tell us (or remind us) of the reason(s) she does not trust you?

It's completely natural for you to feel insecure about her seeing her guy friend!  You ask if it is fear or intuition -- I'd say for certain fear, and maybe or maybe not intuition.  The truth is that you have no control over her or over him -- what happens between them will happen, and if you can get to a place where you can accept that and not worry about things you can't control, there will be a lot less wear and tear on you.  I know this advice is easier to give than it is to follow, but letting go of events and people we can't control is consistently helpful in living a healthier life.

The only thing you can do is to put your best foot forward.  It may well be that she has no romantic interest in this friend.  If she perceives you as tense or fearful about it, that might actually encourage her to exercise her independence by being with him.  What are the things that are within your control that you're doing to try to get back together with her?

RC

[Harri]

Hi!

 

Why do I feel so insecure about this?  Is this insecurity an intuition kind of thing or more of a fear thing?

 I don't know what it is.  I think in time you will be able to recognize what it is.  It could be a combination of both.  It is hard to hear someone we still care for is going to see another person and it is hard to hear about all the other people they can have.  It is what she does though and probably has very little if anything to do with you and who you are.   Rather it could be her way of feeling better about herself.  Regardless, it hurts.

I'm having a hard time trying to work this back into my favor.  I am trying to get her to see the good in me again.  How can I do this, when I'd be lying if I were to say I was doing well?

I'm not sure how you can at this point.  If she wants to see other people, or this former ex, she will and there is little you can do that won't push her away.  I wouldn't pursue her or try to talk her out of her choice as it can come off as controlling or a weakness.

Thoughts?

[merkaba1]

Well, this wasn't an ex, he was someone she met while she was in rehab about six months ago.  He definitely made his intention clear which is why it bothered me that she continued to talk to him in the manner she did.  It seems as though she is in an open non-committed relationship with him.  Just found out this detail a little bit ago.  It definitely hurts a lot. 

I'm not sure what I can do to get her back.

As far as the trust issues:  I found myself while she was away for a few months at rehab and we couldn't really talk, making attempts to talk to other women.  Basically, I felt her cut cords with me while in rehab. she expressed that she didn't know if she could be with me and needed to be alone etc. etc.  This triggered a lot of past issues with me and I fell back to an old pattern of trying to fill a hole.  So she found out about it and that was a major trust thing.  I had never met with anyone or really talked to anyone but still, I was on there for a few days.  I also had a slip up with porn while she was living with me.  An addiction issue I had thought was under control when we first met but after one intense argument, I used that to cope with the pain.  I know it's not good or okay and I feel awful about it.  Anyway, I had also hidden some of my marijuana use from her.  Those are the two main things I'd say broke her trust with me.  Earlier on in our relationship, I had felt like I couldn't be totally upfront with her, or I distrusted her, or something like that.  I believe it was from her reactions when I was honest about how I was feeling that scared me to tell her about some of the bigger issues.  She had been going through a lot of heavy stuff on her own and I thought I was protecting her by trying to work it out on my own.

She says she is not cutting me out of her life and so on.   She also says she needs a healthy distraction (not sure seeing this other guy would constitute healthier but who knows) and that she knows it won't last with him as well as that he has to move back to his kids in the springtime. 

Does anyone have any suggestion on things I can do to get her back?  The last two or so months with losing a baby, having a domestic violence issue, and her deserting me, and not saying goodbye or seeing our dog again has been very traumatizing and I am not coping very well with this great loss.

I am not trying to convince her not to or to do anything as I can see how this would be counterproductive.  I try to respond with happiness that she is going to do whatever she says she is doing.  She is the type where there is very little follow through. (is this common with pwBPD?) Countless times she has found a class or an event or place and desired or signed up for them but doesn't follow through. So whenever something new comes up I just go along with it. 

I am also trying to be kind and supportive, checking in on her and so on.  I have been trying to be as strong as I can when talking and not showing weakness or my struggle.  Today was the first time in a few weeks I have been vulnerable and showed great sadness.  I did an alright job holding back crying but lost it a few times.   

[merkaba1]

Does anyone have any suggestions on said above?  I know it doesn't make me look good, I am trying to be as vulnerable and open as I can on here.

So quick update and sorry I shouldn't say quick as I am a bit of a writer and this really helps to get it out there.  I am extremely grateful to any help anyone can offer during this tough time. 

Sunday evening we had a long 2 1/2 hour conversation.  Emotions were all over the place.  I definitely expressed how I was feeling, and what was going on in my life.  I was open about the marijuana cigarettes, porn and eating issues I had been facing since she left; most was a coping skill to avoid the pain of losing her.  I got more information about this guy I had mentioned earlier.  I can tell that there is something there, but to what degree its hard to say. She already admits it won't last and that he is moving away in the spring.  I see this all as her typical running pattern.  So I cannot help this feeling of being totally replaced; the person she messages right away in the morning and the last one she talks to etc.  They do do fun things together or so it sounds, which is cool I wouldn't want to hold anyone back from making good friends.  Its just that when someone has that emotional attachment so soon after a break up that I get concerned.  It happened with us too.  She met me only a handful of weeks after being with her previous partner and we fell madly in love quickly.  She thinks about me all the time and she did say that when she kissed him she thought of me.  This could be all b.s. to make me feel better though. She said nothing else happened and that she cried for hours about the baby we lost. 

So hearing all of this definitely upset me and she went to bed early due to withdraw from ADD meds and being sick and we never finished the conversation.  I was told we would the next morning.  So I had to drive to training for the week and I called on my way which she didn't pick up.  No biggie it was early, didn't really even want to get into anything heavy but just talk while I drive.  Anyway, I'm not sure what came over me.

My thoughts got really dark and negative.  I looked at the hemp bracelet with her first letter as one of the few beads left.  I thought I should cut this off using the box cutter I recently got from work, and then my mind started immediately thinking about slashing at my own wrists.  This was obviously very startling and some of the recent decisions I made as coping methods sunk in and I just felt worthless.  I sent her a selfie, a song, and a very dark message basically saying I didn't want to be alive anymore.  She immediately started calling and texting but I couldn't get into it as I had to basically become a shell of a human sitting in training for nine hours.  I felt horrible but wanted to be honest about how I was feeling.  I had in the past had suicidal thoughts.

The suicidal thoughts I had in the past were from a long long time ago, I knew at that time I'd never do anything but basically was praying every night for a few weeks for that to be the last night I'd wake up.  And last year after a break up which was not as devastating, but very painful, I had thoughts but knew I wouldn't do it.  So this was the first time my thoughts went into a much deeper, this would be what it actually looks like to take steps, formulating a plan etc. In hindsight I have to ask myself if I was trying to manipulate. I wasn't trying to threaten anyone.  She ended up getting ahold of my parents and calling the police since I wasn't responding.  And all of her family and friends she told too.  And to be honest I was kind of happy she did I know I was in a very bad place.  When we finally spoke she was angry for a quick second and then it was baby baby baby over and over and don't leave me I need you I love you over and over.  I being as sensitive as I am broke down and was basically sobbing in my hotel room for quite a while.  We facetimed as I'm sure she thought that would calm me down.  Which it did help at times but seeing her and our little dog was also just as heartbreaking as thinking of what I have been up to.  We talked for quite a while and I told her how I felt about everything.  Again, I felt she was genuine but my mind wants to question it all; I have been finding myself questioning this which maybe many of you have faced

How can you tell when it is BPD behavior or normal? Sometimes I have difficulty distinguishing whether its someones true behaviors-and true I mean their authentic self, or BPD behavior.    Breakups are not always clean and happy so I can understand.   

I am sure many people without BPD can immediately run to another partner.  I have been guilty of this in my past too.  I suppose I have never been engaged to anyone or this committed either, so it hurts that much more to feel its happening to me.  I also don't know how much is true or not.  I am just going by my feelings when she shares these things.  I don't think this would all be fabricated to hurt me or see how it affects me could it?

Today, I feel better.  I am still pretty rocky with my thoughts.  She sent a message of good morning sweetie which was nice to see the sweetie part, most of that language had been removed weeks ago.  I do miss that.  We spoke a little bit during my breaks.  She had called right before a break was over so I answered for her to tell me she found her Mom's unopened vibrator that she tried the other day and lost.  That was it.  Thanks for the mental image haha but on a real note, what's the deal?  So she called again while I was on a later 10-minute break and I could tell she was sad.  She was still angry about the day before and said she wanted me: every part in all ways.  Wow, that's interesting to hear.  She said she loves me so much and wants me, but doesn't want to want me.  Again, what's the deal?  Is this not wanting to want a defensive mechanism because of the painful memories we have shared?  Unfortunately, the break was over and I had to cut that conversation off and I told her I'd call her back once I was out. She didn't pick up as she was sleeping and we spoke for a bit later on in the evening.  Finding out, she ''accidentally" drank a bottle of cough syrup or Nyquil not sure which and made a bunch of phone calls I'm not sure what to think.  Honesty can come out when under the influence if she even was.  She seemed pretty normal when we spoke earlier in the day.  Plus this morning she did say she was feeling better, slight red flag there with the drinking problem.    She also disclosed earlier today that she and this guy are going to two concerts coming up, one they are driving a motorcycle to another state.  Not super thrilled about that idea but I do know she's been wanting to go to a concert.  I'm just sad and slightly jealous it won't be with me. 

I really want this relationship back.  I love her very much and feel very lost as what to do.  I found relief speaking with her yesterday and being honest about what I was going through.  I know suicide is not an option.  I'm just in despair right now and need help.  I believe she really loves me, and I believe she does want something with me.  Obviously, I could be wrong.  Not having much experience with BPD I'm even more confused as I question a lot of the true motives behind her behaviors and actions.

Reading in the section from Stop Walking on Eggshells, where the pwBPD will make a statement and they will then show the meaning, which is often the opposite of what they are saying or its really about them.  So when she says something like "I suck" or "I suck you don't want me anyway" etc. What does she really mean?  Her and I both know I don't think she sucks and that she is great.  Unless she is just trying to say I suck, or that she believes she sucks so bad that she isn't deserving of anyone.

Where the heck is the wand to fix this! 

[once removed]

I know suicide is not an option.  I'm just in despair right now and need help.

hi merkaba1,

ive had thoughts of suicidal ideation myself. i had them when my ex left me, and when i felt like things wouldnt get better. they are the minds way of crying out and letting us know that we need help, that we shouldnt do this alone.

we have your back here, and youre not alone.

everything else is going to be that much harder to navigate if you arent taking care of you. can you reach out to your doctor for a meds evaluation, and let them know whats going on?

[merkaba1]

Hey,

I have been working with a therapist who specializes in BPD for a few months and he knows about everything going on.  I will be meeting with him tomorrow and will bring up the thought of medication.  I've done it before and know sometimes its needed but I'd really like to avoid that if possible.

I spoke with my pwBPD this morning for a while.  It was an interesting ride of a conversation.  She for a while was very upset about her parents not wanting her to leave.  She wants to move to either the ocean where her two friends are or another city of spiritual people and learn mediumship and go through Reverand classes.  Then she was really upset that she thought she might be a lesbian.  Told me for the first time that she's had orgasms with women in the past.  I was mainly surprised as I thought she shared everything with me. Shes going on and on about it and how her family will hate her etc.

I had told the other day that "just throwing this out there, I'd still like to go to India with you someday, even if its just friends" and went on for a short minute about how it could be really good for her and I to check that place out.  Today that was something else she was upset with; I'm making plans for us.  I was just throwing it out there.  So while we are talking and she's upset, I get this message from the school I am sending her to in Costa Rica saying they have two spots left for a retreat in India this March.  What kind of coincidence is that? I bring it up to her and she seemed excited so I scheduled a call with the school to inquire about the spots left.  We get off the phone for five minutes, she calls back and is hysterical...

This guy doesn't love me what's wrong with him He doesn't love me etc. I'm like uhh what the heck just happened? Shes super upset about this for a few minutes, I keep telling her I still love her even if this guy doesn't.  She then goes on to say, I really love you and am madly in love with you and I hate you and I hate that I love you so much but I do and goes on like this for a bit. 

We talk for a little while about the baby we aborted.  That has still been very painful for her, as it has for me.  Unfortunately, I want to be the one she cries on and talks to about this but I have been replaced by someone who doesn't love her. This is all upsetting to hear about and yet, I know that she needs people there in her presence.  I'm just sad I am not that person right now.  Feeling replaced sucks. 

So we get back on Facetime, she sets it down, stands back, takes her clothes off, and I'm like uh heck yea! haha Here she says she loves me and then does this, well this is a breath of fresh air.  Lays in bed, and then hangs up.  I can't get ahold of her and I fell asleep.  I went out to dinner with a friend and on my way tried calling back while I drove for an hour.  No response.  Ten minutes away from the resturant she calls back yelling and telling me to leave her alone and that she had woken up to her parents hovering over her with a bottle of booze next to her.  She is blaming me for her drinking and that talking to me brings her down and is such a trigger that she drinks.  I know its not my fault, just as it's not her fault I have had suicidal thoughts.  So she keeps going on that she can't talk to me ever again and to basically eff off and leave her alone.  I'm having a hard time holding it together as I go to eat with this friend.  Finally, we are off the phone and it was a crappy ending of being hung up on.  She calls back when I sit down with my friend and they told me to answer while they went to the bathroom. She's going off still about leaving me alone and so on.  Finally, I just said I can't do this I'm sorry and hung up. She called back three times, sent me a text with just my name, and then ten minutes later sent me a ladies name with Wheaton terrier.  Haven't heard anything yet. 

When a pwBPD is super mad and angry and telling you to leave them alone for good, how do you respond?  I know we both love each other, and I believe, correct me anyone that has a differing opinion, that she sees so much and feels so much of her pain when talking to me or seeing me that she runs away instead of facing the pain and working through it.  So its easier to try and hurt me to push me away. 

I partially want to write her a letter and then film myself reading it.  Somewhat of a final goodbye kind of thing?  I'm not quite sure yet.  I am so in love with this person and it pains me not being with her.  I really want to reverse this breakup and move on from the painful memories and get back to where we used to be!

I do not wish to initiate no contact, nor do I wish for her to do that. 

What do I do?

[Bnonymous]

Hi Merkaba1,

It sounds like the two of you are really going through the wringer at the moment. 

Do please keep posting here - we're listening and we care.

She wants to move to either the ocean where her two friends are or another city of spiritual people and learn mediumship and go through Reverand classes.  Then she was really upset that she thought she might be a lesbian.  Told me for the first time that she's had orgasms with women in the past.  I was mainly surprised as I thought she shared everything with me. Shes going on and on about it and how her family will hate her etc.

From what you say, here and in other posts, it sounds like some of her biggest BPD issues centre around a lack of a stable sense of self/identity. It sounds like she is very confused about who she is, what she values, and what she wants. Think back to adolescence, how at that time most of us experiment with lifestyles, interests, identities etc, like we are trying on outfits and trying to find a look that suits us - a lot of people with BPD seem to be emotionally stuck in that frightening and painful phase of life; they don't know who they are and feel adrift and are desperately searching for something-anything to anchor them. It sounds like your pwBPD is going through such struggles.

This can be confusing and painful for loved ones too, as it can make us feel that "we don't know where we stand" with them and don't know how to respond or help them.

The answer involves a lot of understanding, patience, and ability to step back and not take the sudden swings personally. Try to respond to her like you would to a teenager: give her lots of space to explore herself/her life/the world, take the things she expresses seriously, but always keep firmly in mind that the things she feels and wants right now don't necessarily reflect any permanent or long-standing feelings and needs or have ongoing implications for anything but the immediate future.

I'm going to quote two different parts of your post together now, so you can see how they relate:

We talk for a little while about the baby we aborted.  That has still been very painful for her, as it has for me.  Unfortunately, I want to be the one she cries on and talks to about this but I have been replaced by someone who doesn't love her. This is all upsetting to hear about and yet, I know that she needs people there in her presence.  I'm just sad I am not that person right now.  Feeling replaced sucks. 

and

I know we both love each other, and I believe, correct me anyone that has a differing opinion, that she sees so much and feels so much of her pain when talking to me or seeing me that she runs away instead of facing the pain and working through it.  So its easier to try and hurt me to push me away. 

Can you see how what you describe in the second quote kind of explains what you're seeing in the first?

I don't think it's just that you're not close geographically, but more that you're too close emotionally. As you say, the confrontation with her pain is so immense when she's around you, so that she automatically runs away and pushes you away to escape that pain. The guy she is talking to isn't that close - he's at a remove from everything that happened, so talking to him doesn't trigger the same memories or feelings as talking to you.

It might even be, in part, because he doesn't love her: that lack of personal connection and investment might make it easier and "safer" for her to talk (like how we talk to counsellors/therapists or helplines).

I get that it hurts and it's painful. It is totally understandable that you want to be the one she comes to for comfort and support. My guess is that, if you have patience, that will happen. Talking to this guy might help her build up to talking to you - if she lets some of her feelings out to a person who is less involved, it might help her to get enough of a handle on them to be able to truly face them all, and then she may be strong enough to turn to you.

You're not being replaced - you can't be replaced. The baby was yours. The experience was shared with you. Nothing can change that. Talking to him about these things can never have the same meaning as talking to you about them would. So they're kind of "lower-stakes" emotionally. It's the conversations with you that really count, really mean something, and so they are harder to face right now. You've identified the problem perfectly in what you say above.

But it sounds like she already is facing it to some extent - she is talking about it with you a bit at least?

We talk for a little while about the baby we aborted. 

What kind of things do you each say about it? What emotions does she express?

I partially want to write her a letter and then film myself reading it.  Somewhat of a final goodbye kind of thing?  I'm not quite sure yet.  I am so in love with this person and it pains me not being with her.  I really want to reverse this breakup and move on from the painful memories and get back to where we used to be!

I do not wish to initiate no contact, nor do I wish for her to do that. 

What do I do?

Don't do anything much until you have had a lot of time to think and process all these complicated and confusing emotions. Don't write a "final goodbye" if what you really want to do is "reverse this break-up". Just take your time, have patience with her, and take each day and each contact as it comes. Try to fill your time with things that help you to rest and recharge and feel good about yourself (time with friends, long walks, gym visits, reading, listening to or playing music - whatever it is that works for you).

I know this is phenomenally hard - I really do. But, sometimes, things can't be fixed and/or resolved quickly or easily and a "watch and wait" approach is best. She needs to process some of her feelings and get herself to a (relatively) more stable place before either of you can make any big decisions about how to go forward. Right now, she is all over the place and anything she says today about how she feels or what she wants might be completely reversed by tomorrow.

Try to stay steady and constant. Try to be a rock that stands still and firm while the storm rages around it. Seek whatever help and support you need to keep you standing stable until some of her chaos subsides. It's good that you're seeing a therapist. Are you finding it helpful? How did your last meeting go?

[merkaba1]

Thank you Bnonymous,

I agree that she is in a stage of not really knowing who she is, or if she does, doesn't know how to become that person. 

I definitely see how the two are connected.  So my question then is, how do we each work toward healing the pain between us?  What can I do for myself as well as for her, and what does the pwBPD need to do for herself and for me?  She is still in great pain about the baby being aborted.  I was just accused of not trying hard enough to save her(we both intuitively felt it was a girl).  Trust me I did everything I could to let it be known I wanted the baby and didn't want to go through with that procedure and still love my partner and be there for her while it all happened.

An update for how today has been so far.  Every day is a new day right?  (After having suicidal thoughts I've really had to work on kicking up some humor to lighten up how ___ty this is). 

I didn't message or call today until she did.  I was in training and told her I'd call her when I was done.  So she responds "I had the craziest dream about your twin flame crystal" So I respond with excitement (I am a crystal person and this one is a prized one and it feels significant that she'd dream about this particular one).  Telling her though that I am stuck at this corporate christmas party and playing bingo.  Its not that I really wanted to play bingo but just starting out in this long trainee process, having the exposure at the very least of all the exeuctives in this large company is a good thing.  So, she can wait. 

She asks right away, could you call now?  So I just say wish I could but im stuck at this bingo thing yada yada.  and that I promise I'll call as soon as I leave. is everything okay?  She responds I'm fine, the aa acronym fine. (effed up, insecure, neurotic, emotional). I thank her for the clarification on fine and tell her to hang in there and I'll call her soon.  She then starts saying you should see your daughter (she is referring to our dog) hunting lizards and how cute it is.  then sends another song (mentioned in the previous thread, she sends songs and I most of the time believe she is trying to speak through the meaning of the lyrics-talk about confusing) .  So I call back on my drive home.

She doesn't pick up for a while and when she calls back it was a wave.  MY NAME real loud let me tell you... .and I'm like oohhh ___ this is about to get real.  She is basically freaking out about going up to a stranger, and asking them about the torah and the kabalah and is super upset that she was looked at funny.  She perceived the look as though she was racisit, a child, and ignorant.  Yet, I do understand wanting to ask people about their faiths and philosophies and beliefs etc.  I didn't get the back information like, did you just walk up to a guy that looked Jewish and ask?  Because I would totally understand why Id get a look if I did that.  If I went up to a synagogue and asked questions like that and still got those looks, it would be a different story right?  How often do you all get your pwBPD telling you half the details to the story?  Its hard to get details sometimes because she will get upset when I ask questions.

Anyway, she got really frustrated and angry and hung up.  No bother this time I was able to not take it personally because it didn't have to do with another guy or me or anything it was a total random event and the BPD behavior was still showing.

She calls back and is sad and telling me shes messed up etc.  Finally, she discloses that she has been "dating men like men" and I'm a little confused as I have never dated like the cliche dude dating women.  So eventually I have to be clear and say, do you mean go on a date and f them after. and she says yes.  So she goes on and says shes now had sex with three different men in the recent week or so.  She has been drinking heavily the last few days as well and I asked if she was sober and she was honest and said she was not.  So my blood is obviously pumping.  I do realize I can't take her actions personally either.  She says it was in spite of men, but I can see thats not the truth.  She is in my opinion in so much pain and heartbreak over us that she is running to the hills and will do anything to fix that love craving that she has.  She feels awful about it and I do know this. 

Currently writing this I am feeling extremely angry like I want to cut her out of my life for good.  As hard as that would be.  And If I were to do so, I most likely would send her a nice long video as a farewell type of thing.  Thoughts?

Anyway, this goes on hanging up and calling back and telling me she loves me but she really likes this guy and that she misses our baby and wants it back and so on. 

I had had a chance myself, to be honest about sleeping with someone and meeting someone online.  Not my proudest moment by any means.  I felt terrible and didn't want to share to the full extent my issues with my pwBPD as it would surely trigger her even more.  However, in light of hearing what she has been up to I felt it was appropriate.  More saying, hey, I messed up too and I do love you and I was simply trying to numb the pain of that loss.

So her phone dies and she was driving around (horrible idea... ) and getting food.  She called me back finally at a park, drunk, sitting next to a tree saying how she was praying to God everything would be okay.  Fast forward ten minutes of her saying how gross I was for having sex with someone I didn't know she tells me she did as well and did coke (all of this was last night).  She went out with her parents friend and brought him home with her.  Now mind you, this could all be made up too.  That is possible right?

I do believe her and it is very painful to hear.  Somehow, even as much as it pains and hurts me to think of her with another person, I know its not her true self and I still love her with all my heart.  I do know its possible for me to have done what I did and still love someone completely.  Its a messed up feeling.

So after calling back and her turning another switch, it was I love you and I want you and I want to make babies with you and on and on.  Can we have sex tonight etc.? Jokingly I'm like well we could right now? 

So she calls back again so she "doesn't puke on me" as she is apparently sitting still at this church and I already was way past the point of realizing she shouldn't be driving.  So not five minutes after saying she wants my babies etc. Its I hate you leave me alone I don't want to love you I hate that I love you but I love you and so on.  She screams and it seemed like a good release so I encouraged her to let it out.  She did a couple more times and screamed I hate you I hate you.  It could have been just me, or many people all at the same time she was referring to. 

So she hung up and wouldn't respond and blocked me.  Ten minutes go by and she calls apologizing.  This is all starting to become very frustrating.  Not that it always hasn't but I just don't know what to do.  I love her and am in love with her.  She likes this guy, who now hates her (she told him about sleeping with someone else, but hasn't yet told him about last night with this other person and the drugs) yet loves me but doesn't want to be in love with me.  How do I respond to that?

At one point shes yelling at me, why do you love me?  You shouldn't love me, I'm not pure, and so on.  Saying she isn't worthy and I deserve better.  Its like she is trying to do anything she can to push me away or hurt me enough that I will finally leave.  I don't like the self-fulfilling abandonment prophecy.  She is free to make mistakes and I will continue to love her.  That's what true love is all about.  To me at least.  Coupling that with the yelling statements of I hate you its all hard not to take personally.  I am more thinking the screaming of I hate you is more her deflecting how she feels about herself.  That she hates herself and cannot understand why I would continue to love her.

As of right now, she is sleeping in the back seat of her car in a parking lot.  She tried driving apparently but a police officer was just pulling someone over so it scared her.  Partially I wish she would have been the one.  Then at least she wouldn't hurt herself or someone else.If it weren't for the police getting involved with me, I probably wound't be here to experience this wonderful life learning about BPD with all of you fine amazing folks!

Part of me, not going to lie, wants to just message her mom.  I had responded to her asking me to not contact her daughter simply saying I was hoping to catch her when she has a few minutes.  I mainly wanted to explain the behavior she was seeing in her daughter wasn't bipolar or solely alcohol but BPD.  She has known this but never really looked into it.  Her Father, however, was the one that turned me onto what BPD even was and he knows all about it.  Unfortunately, her mom and stepdad seem clueless.  So part of me wants to point out, hey, what the f.  You send your daughter out to a dive bar with your friend a day after you find booze next to your daughter who is clearly struggling.  What were you thinking?  So she screws this guy and does drugs with him and is still drinking.  What the heck?

My pwBPD could be playing her family so hard that they are clueless for good reason. 

Where do I go from here?

The idea of just letting it be and not worrying does feel nice.  I know she will contact me eventually.  I have a hard time not being so darn clingy when things like this happen.  This is the strangest break up I have ever experienced!  And at times, I don't feel as though we really fully broke up.

Thoughts, suggestions, or sharing a similar story would be so very much appreciated!

[Bnonymous]

Hi Merkaba1,

It looks like you have a great deal of insight and understanding here. It sounds as though the two of you are both in immense pain right now and that she, in particular, is struggling to cope with that and her behaviours reflect that struggle.

Your situation is complicated and there's a lot to think about and respond to in your posts. I would like to reflect a while and get back to you more in-depth when I've had an opportunity to do that. I hope that other members will be along to share their thoughts and experiences in the meantime. For now, I just wanted you to know that people are listening and care.

[once removed]

i think what Bnonymous says here is the crux of it:

The answer involves a lot of understanding, patience, and ability to step back and not take the sudden swings personally. Try to respond to her like you would to a teenager: give her lots of space to explore herself/her life/the world, take the things she expresses seriously, but always keep firmly in mind that the things she feels and wants right now don't necessarily reflect any permanent or long-standing feelings and needs or have ongoing implications for anything but the immediate future.

everything shes doing is abrupt. she left abruptly. sleeping with multiple partners is abrupt. shouting at you that she hates you one minute and loves you the next is abrupt.

you cant begin to solve this, practically speaking, and you cant afford to get down in it with her, emotionally.

i also agree that now is probably not the time for big gestures like telling her goodbye or cutting her off, or going to her mom. if you want to distance yourself (that is one of many options here), it would be better to detach and slowly disengage.

how long ago was the abortion?

[Bnonymous]

Hi again, Merkaba1,

I've been thinking about your situation. It does sound as though the biggest problem right now relates to her feelings about the abortion. Once she has worked through these, a lot of the chaotic behaviours might subside and she might be ready to look at your relationship and where you can go from here.

It sounds as though you're working on self-care and it's great that you're seeing a therapist - do you talk to them about your feelings regarding the abortion?

I'm sorry, I can't remember whether you've already said - does she have a therapist? If not, gentle encouragement for her to find one as "someone to talk to" might be the way to go. If she can talk to a professional about her feelings, this might reduce her need for hit-and-run pseudo-intimacy with men who are on the outside of the situation.

I think this is something that you each need to work through on your own, primarily, but supplementing this by working through it together may be helpful too. What do you say when she talks about it?

I would let her know that you're sad too, though acknowledge that, as the woman who carried the child in her body, she will be dealing with additional feelings from that which you would like to understand. I would guess that she is projecting when she accuses you of not trying hard enough to save the baby - it is probably a defense mechanism to protect her from unbearable feelings of regret and maybe guilt. Try to resist the temptation to JADE when she does this, just let her talk and validate her as much as you're able.

I would also try to gently remind her that she made the decision for good reasons - and that the fact she recognised that the two of you weren't in a position to raise a child right now shows that she is caring and self-aware, skills that will help her to be a good mother one day when the time is right. She probably had mixed feelings about the pregnancy from the start, then, once the decision was made and acted on, she (in typically BPD fashion) "forgot" the ones that pulled towards abortion and only remembers all the others, so she is drowning in guilt and regret. Try to acknowledge and validate all those feelings, whilst also balancing them by reminding her that she did what she did for good reasons and so does not deserve punishment. That may be a very hard line to walk without accidentally invalidating her though.

I don't know if you've already seen the article on validation here - if not it might be worth checking it out, as it has some helpful hints and insight https://bpdfamily.com/content/communication-skills-dont-be-invalidating

The idea of just letting it be and not worrying does feel nice. 

Then go with it. There is not much you can do right now - do what you can and otherwise just give yourself permission to let it be.

[merkaba1]

Hey everyone,

Thank you for your support, insights, and stories.  It has really helped. 

So, I haven't been on in a little while.  Since I have last been on, the rollercoaster has continued.  Few days of the f you leave me alone.  Then, as I was thinking would happen when I mentioned earlier in the thread that she 'accidentally' drank a whole bottle of Robitussin and that was a big sign that she was drinking or would be soon.  Sure enough, not that many days after, and probably close to the time I took a short break from writing here, she was spiraled out of control.  She was pushing everyone in her life away.  Being mean and nasty toward me to get me to leave her alone.  Then one day she flipped the switch and it was I love you. Would you fly down here, I need you etc.  So, I of course, am like yes, I love you, if you need me I'll fly down.  I could take a personal day if absolutely necessary.  Knowing this whole time in the back of my head that if we see one another, she may want to be with me.  Is that manipulation or is it one of those kinds of win-win situations?  Feeling like I have been beeing projected upon for so long, I question so much of who I am and what I am about now.  Does anyone else feel this way? 

Then it went from me flying down to perhaps she could come here for a few days to get a break from life.  Thought she left Michigan to go down to Florida for that very reason.  Really hasn't been working out all that well for her.  Then the next day it was awkward on the phone, and she said she was sorry and she couldn't come.  No biggie.  Definitely bummed but it is what it is.  So another day goes by, and she calls and said she was done there, f everyone, and that she wanted to drive back here and move back in.  I'm like whoa, big left turn.  Okay, if thats what you really want I am here and you can. 

Knowing too that if this really happened I have to clean up my act very fast.  The next day, to be totally honest, I felt more alive than I have in the last month and a half.  I felt real excitement for the future.  I told a handful of people too.  So, the next day, again, an awkward conversation and said she was really sorry but she couldn't move back and that she needed to not talk to me again.  Ouch.  Such a dramatic change!  Then we argued for a while, as it was a big blow up.  She then called back later that evening to apologize and so on.  I am basically repeating the same stuff over and over again just with a different punch line. 

Its just very frustrating going from thinking this person hates you and doesn't want to talk to you, to they want to move back in with you and are making plans for the future to just have it go back to the first situation.  There is so much anger and frustration coming from her that I find it very difficult not to stoop to her level and blame and accuse and be passive aggressive. 

A few days of I cannot talk to you and then the I'm sorry I love you stuff went on after. At one point she mentioned she was coming back to Michigan for a few days to see her doctor.  Apparently, the disability insurance she is on only covers doctors in Michigan?  Anyway, as of two days ago, she tells me she is coming to Michigan for a few weeks.  Or at least a week and that she is seeing a bunch of old friends etc.  I only said this after the second time she said out of nowhere, I'll be in Michigan for a while.  I take that as a sign to bring up meeting up.  Of course, she took it the wrong way.  I wasn't even asking her to come just saying hey, if you want, I'd like to see you, but no pressure I won't say anything about it again; I'll let you come to me about it.  The blow up was, you shouldn't have said a word about it and just let me come to you.  God I feel like I am dealing with someone outside of reality sometimes.  The reason I question myself sometimes is she is very intuitive.  Not that I don't question the truth of that intuition, I question more of the motives and half-truths behind the painful way she delivers all that is 'wrong with me'.

I got two puppies the day before her birthday (this last Monday).  She was making me feel very irresponsible for getting them and causing a lot of extra anxiety.  The dog we shared together is the same breed (small Havanese) and she had nearly died early on.  I always understand where her issues are truly coming from, its just the delivery and method that sucks.  But I called on her birthday and told her I got them.  She was surprisingly very excited about them.  She had a rough birthday, but that did make her very happy.  Two days later, or yesterday, she blows up at me for it.  Accuses me of abusing and neglecting my puppies (I suppose for those out there reading this, I believe we can replace puppies for children.  Especially with my pwBPD, she believed our dog was a human.  This has actually caused an argument more than once.  I actually found myself snapping at one point and trying to convince her that our dog was a dog.  How wild is that? I mean, side note, I do believe that all animals have souls and are unique and special, same as humans but still, a dog is a dog.

So, she was going on and on about how dangerous it is with these puppies, how I needed to give them away and so on.  She at one point said she would take them from me, or call animal protection on me.  What the hell?  So then we're back to getting real heated and blow up hang up.  She then calls me late last night and said she had a dream and that she would see me to have closure. 

She had gone on about getting her stuff with her dad while I was gone.  I really didn't feel comfortable about this and so she finally tells me she has a key and will get in any way.  Starts threatening me that she is going to mess with my stuff if I don't comply with her.  At some points during this conversation, I'm like, well screw your crap it'll be in the street.  But I also realize this is pretty low.  I am so frustrated and don't want to us to get so angry that we initiate NC and leave each other for good.  I do think that we each need to be in a healthy place in life to have a good relationship and honestly, neither of us are really in that space, but her dad would be there.  Okay, this is where its just a bit much.  We are grown adults.  why do we need to pull in our family for this?  I suppose I can see how he is being used as a mediator so things don't get heated but it seems a bit fake.  After what we have shared I don't see why we can't have a heart to heart. 

I am open to opinions, if you thought of a story of your own in reading this, I'd love it if you'd share.  Or if your situation was different and you thought to yourself, this is what I'd do, please share that as well. 

Thank you all

[merkaba1]

Oh, last thing I wanted to add.  So after last night of her telling me she'd see me one last time but she cannot talk to me any longer, I started to mull the thought around.  Today, I didn't contact her until I tried calling after work.  I somewhat felt on auto pilot.  In many ways, shes the first person I want to talk to in the morning and the last person I want to talk to at the end of my day so she is the first person I contact after being at work all day.  She didn't pick up and I left a voicemail apologizing, half way through the second ring I realized I shouldn't be calling.  I ought to let her contact me; don't push her even more.  She called back a little while after.  It was okay but she felt awkward and started laying into me.  I was on my  way to my other job which I have to quit, and we ended the conversation on a bad note.  I felt that she would still be calling back and not to worry although I felt a lot of anxiety being at this second job.  She called toward the end of my shift as I thought.  Facetimed back 15 minutes later.  Called a third time another five minutes later.  I'm still at work and didn't want to tell her.  She doesn't think me having someone drop by the house every few hours to let my pups out is okay and is neglect so I didn't tell her I was at my other job.  I accidentally called back and thought I hung up before it rang.  Guess not.  That, of course, made her furious. So I called back when I finally left and she just went on and on again.  Asking me what was wrong with me.  I was hurrying home to get to my dogs so I was walking extra fast.  I walk super fast normally so I was panting, nothing as wrong.  I wasn't the one calling multiple times in a half hour time span.  What's the deal with this?  Because when I asked her what was going on, she just kept reverting back to me.  Finally blew up and said she a lot of mean things ''I honestly don't care at all" "chain smoke your lungs to death"  and so on.  So, we are back to being angry and stubborn and no one calling. 

I am sorry about the super long messages. Thank you again.

[Bnonymous]

Cripes, Merkaba1, that is a rollercoaster!

It sounds like her head is all over the place at the moment. She will probably carry on this yo-yo behaviour for a while before she gets a clearer idea of what she wants. This is understandably very hard on you emotionally. At least next time you will be prepared and will hold back the hope and excitement so you won't have these things dashed again.