Update: the mature conversation has happened but we may be over

[Bnonymous]

Hi all,

I thought I'd update you on a new thread, as I think the old one might be close to being locked as too long.

He called me this morning and we had a wonderful three hour long conversation. It was the talk I had been waiting for. He was open, honest, accountable, and responsive to my feelings - that isn't easy for him and I admire him so much for doing something that is so emotionally difficult for him.

But, as we talked, we grew in acceptance that this might be the end of the road. We both now think that my blocking him is a sign that things have deteriorated to a point where we might be better off accepting that we can't go on.

All that talk about boundaries in my previous threads might have been a (subconscious) way for me to dance around a gut feeling that I couldn't face, a feeling that, if I have felt the need to block someone who is supposed to be my partner, then maybe I've stopped seeing him as a partner. Does that make sense?

Yes, I am confused. It's clear from my posts that I'm not really sure what I'm feeling or even thinking at the moment.

It's a heartbreaking thing that someone recognising and acknowledging that you may need to move on from them makes you love and respect them all the more. It's hard. Very very hard.

The fact we can talk like this makes me feel there is hope and that there is too much good to give up on. But I also have to be realistic about the bad. I reached a point where I had to block someone who is supposed to be my partner - I don't want to either over or under estimate the significance of that.

Nothing is set in stone yet. I don't want to make rash decisions when my head is all over the place. We are going to step back and take things one conversation at a time.

[once removed]

Nothing is set in stone yet. I don't want to make rash decisions when my head is all over the place. We are going to step back and take things one conversation at a time.

thats a sound approach... .

still, what a hard conversation to have. how are you holding up? do you know when youll speak next?

[SamwizeGamgee]

I agree there is a sense of relief, maybe joy, and even an improvement when we finally get out the dark heavy subjects in our conversations.  I have had a lot more honesty and openness in my conversations with my wife (and no, we are not doing well at all) and it feels really good sometimes to finally be able to talk about "hey, I'm suffering, I am not blaming anyone, or anything, but, things are not working out the way they are going right now."  And then follow all this bad news with a better tone and spirit between us.
I thought I was odd, or maybe a subject of trauma bonding, but, I think I just feel more authentic when I say how I feel.
I'm glad you were able to have a good long talk.

[Bnonymous]

Thanks, oncremoved. We left it open re when next to speak, which was probably a mistake, as he hasn't stopped calling since. He calls when I've just woke up. He calls throughout the day. He calls just before I go to bed. I'm starting to feel a bit bombarded and smothered and am not getting any chance to either take a break to recharge or to think things through. If it continues, I'm going to have to say something (either directly "I need some time to process what you've said and think about things" or indirectly "It's nice to talk to you but I have a lot to do now, so I'm going to need to get off the phone for a bit - I'll call you at x time").

Thanks, Samwizegamgee (love the username, btw!). Yes, it's good to be able to say how we're feeling - I agree it's a matter of authenticity. Thanks for understanding and reaching out.

[SweetCharlotte]

Wow, what an intriguing story, Bnonymous. Many ups and downs, twists and turns. I admit when you recounted how he was threatening to knock down your door, I thought that you should not see him again. It may have been an empty, one-time threat. Let's hope. It is still a boundary that has been broken down. That makes you more vulnerable in the future—there is one less boundary to break. The sweet and understanding phone call after trauma has been inflicted is often the compensatory phase of an abusive relationship (like candy or flowers), so I would watch out for this.

I was wondering—are you still smoking? Do you still want to quit? I feel that you should do this for yourself, not for him. It would be more lasting that way. You deserve this longer and healthier life! Your daughter (and her eventual kids) will appreciate it too.

[Cat Familiar]

So he’s blowing up your phone. Why not turn it off? Not really the same as blocking, but obviously this guy doesn’t respect either boundaries or have empathy that you have other things to do than support his neediness.

[Bnonymous]

Thanks, SweetCharlotte,

It's not the fist-and-flowers pattern. I've been around the block enough to recognise that when I see it and that's not what I'm seeing here. It's genuine responsibility - I can tell the difference. It's that he does what he can when he can. I realise it sounds like the fists-and-flowers pattern from outside though.

Re smoking, I haven't decided yet. I noticed that I did feel good during that week when I wasn't smoking, so I probably will try again regardless of what happens with him. It's ironic though that, when I finally get an opportunity to not be around another smoker, it doesn't feel like a good time to quit cos of dealing with a (probable) break-up... .

I still haven't decided for sure about the relationship, though it is very much starting to look and feel over.

Thanks, Cat Familiar,

It's my landline he's calling at the moment. If I want him to stop, I will tell him. If he then carries on, I'll unplug it for a few hours.

[Bnonymous]

Just to clarify my reply to Cat Familiar:

The volume of phone calls has felt A Bit Much and left me feeling a bit crowded, but it's something I was willing to bear with for the first few days - after that point, it would have been necessary to put a stop to it. He does seem to have backed off now though, so, hopefully, the bombardment of calls is done with. If he starts again, I will stop it by first asking him and then unplugging the phone for a bit if he carries on anyway.

[once removed]

he hasn't stopped calling since.

what does he want (curious, not flippant)? is he lashing out, begging to get back, just wants to talk?

[Bnonymous]

Just to talk. Started out with the mature conversation stuff for the first couple of calls, and then moved on to chatting about very trivial, everyday stuff for the rest, almost as though nothing had happened but with a nervous hyper tone to his voice. It's stopped now.

I think he just needed constant reassurance that I still existed and didn't actively hate him. I understand that and was willing to bear with it for a couple of days, but no more (in fact, even though it was A Bit Much and extremely tiring, it was also kind of comforting for me too). But I was clear in my head that it couldn't go on for more than a couple of days or it would send the wrong signals and wouldn't do either of us any good.

He only did it for a couple of days, fortunately. Then yesterday he just called once and was going on about how he needs to stop contacting me so he can get over me. I reminded him that the alternative is to keep talking on the phone every few days and see if we can find any way to go forward, but that there were no guarantees we would be able to and, if we did, it would take a long time. His attitude to that was that he wasn't willing to wait, because, the sooner he accepted he'd be on his own for Christmas, the better chance he'd have of getting through it. I understand that and am happy to leave it there.

I don't think it will be left there though - I think he'll contact me again soon.

I'm just going with the flow, though am clear in my head that a couple of conversations aren't going to be enough to fix the problems and make me recommit. If I don't hear from him, I won't contact him, I will just get on with the grieving process (in fact, I think I've started it already). If I do hear from him, I will stick to the same line, that I want to see how it goes on the phone, that things have gotten really bad and I don't know if they can be fixed, but I am willing to talk and listen and see if that changes anything.

There is enough here that I would be willing to keep dialogue open and see if anything concrete comes out of that - for example, if he offered to go into therapy or go back to detox (these are ideas that I am not going to raise, because I would want them to come from him). If nothing concrete comes out of talks, then we will eventually reach a point where I say that this isn't going anywhere and we need to let go now.

I half hope he will stick to having decided that himself and that this will be it now.

[Bnonymous]

I want to share something lovely that arose in yesterday's phone conversation.

He has always been terrified of being cheated on, left, replaced etc. He has never been able to bear the thought of someone he has loved being with someone else. Yet, yesterday, he was saying (without self-pity) about how I'd move on. Convo went something like this (all his comments completely sincere):

Me: I won't do that. If we're done, I'm done with romance now.

Him: No, don't say that. You're a loving person, beautiful inside and out and you deserve to love and be loved. You don't have to be alone - you can find someone else.

Me: Honestly, I don't think I'd be able to trust anyone after us. I remember what it was like between us in the first months and how wrong it went later... .I wouldn't be able to enjoy those first months with someone else - I'd be waiting for them to change like you changed.

Him: No. I understand that - I was scared of being hurt with you because of what other women did in my past - in fact, I was so scared of being hurt that I ended up being the one doing the hurting... .But my point is that you haven't got to be scared of other people changing - not everyone is as damaged as me. You can't give up on love and trust just cos of me. What went wrong with us won't happen again, because what went wrong with us is on me, not you. You'll be alright with someone else. I don't want you to feel you have to be alone.

_____

It wasn't charm or self-pity or anything like that. He was completely sincere. This is who he is when he's at his best. He genuinely loves me when he is well enough to. It's incredibly sad that it isn't enough.

[Notwendy]

I think there are moments of clarity and they are wonderful. Then, one has to also consider the constant, day to day dynamics and the times when things are not going well. Are the moments of clarity worth it? You say they are not enough- you can definitely decide what is enough for you or not- it is your relationship.

I can relate to the lack of trust. It's hard to trust and then get hurt. I could say the same thing- I've been able to work on my marriage but if I was single, I would have a hard time trusting my own "attraction" mechanism. I think who we attract and are attracted to is influenced by our FOO's at a subconscious level and that doing personal work to look at this is valuable, whether in a relationship or not. I've read that going into another relationship quickly after a dysfunctional one ends is likely to also be dysfunctional, but it isn't necessarily destiny if personal work on the issues is done.

Regardless of the direction this relationship takes, your personal work is beneficial.

[Bnonymous]

Thanks, notwendy.

I've actually been doing a lot of thinking about this.

I am in my forties and I have only had two relationships in my life: my marriage (which lasted fifteen years) and my relationship with my (ex?)boyfriend.

On the surface, the two men couldn't be more different. My ex-husband is autistic. He is a quiet, reserved man, who has never had a physical fight, never had a drink, almost never raised his voice, and has no interest in social engagement (he has Asperger's) - my boyfriend is loud, emotional, volatile, has a current alcohol problem and a history of abusing other substances in his past, and is very outgoing, uninhibited etc. My ex-husband is very well educated, interested in politics, the arts etc. My boyfriend is uneducated (only just about functionally literate) and uninterested in these things (with the exception of music).

On the surface, they have nothing in common. But, going deeper... .The one thing they have in common is that neither of them are capable of meeting another person's needs... .I'm questioning that now. I'm questioning if that is why I was drawn to both men: because I am near pathologically independent and don't like to let anyone meet my needs except me.

The thing is though, I really really thought I'd changed. I really thought that, after all the work I have done on myself in the last decade or more, I was ready for a real, reciprocal, two-way relationship. And, at first, I really thought my boyfriend wanted and was capable of that too. What attracted me to him was how comfortable he was with emotion, feeling emotion, talking about emotion, expressing emotion... .It was a breath of fresh air after the miserable, suffocating, oppressive atmosphere of my marriage. I thought I'd found a kindred spirit and an equal who I could have a real, deeply connected and emotionally intimate relationship with.

But... .

I have just been making a list of the abusive behaviours with examples of the abusive things my boyfriend says to me (so that I don't become tempted to minimise it). And what jumps out at me is that he sounds exactly like my late father... .That stunned me and has given me a lot of food for thought. I also realise that he very much resembles my late father in other ways too (more positive ones, such as his love of nature and music). I need to do a lot more thinking about this.

[Notwendy]

I think the attraction to someone who doesn't meet our emotional needs is a big factor. I was raised by a BPD mom and while my father did a good job of parenting us considering the circumstances, he also was emotionally not available as he was carrying the load of parenting while also enabling my mother. The family revolved around meeting her needs.

It's also one of the items on the ACA ( which includes dysfunction even if there isn't alcohol involved ) laundry list :

"We either become alcoholics, marry them or both, or find another compulsive personality such as a workaholic to fulfill our sick abandonment needs."


I don't think this is a conscious action on our part. I think we grow up longing for an unavailable parent to meet our emotional needs and replay this with our choice of partners on a subconscious level. For me, it is "if I am good enough, mommy and daddy will finally love me".

I've been married a long time and so any old boyfriends would be from my school years. I do look back at them to see if there were any trends in common. It's hard because when we are young, we don't have the kind of drama that would be present in an adult relationship. The common threads in the guys I dated were- parents divorced, and alcohol/drugs were involved if not with them, but in family members. My H's family is intact and there isn't alcohol/drugs but there is co-dependency. I don't see these pairings as coincidental but the fact that I emotionally match with people whose families follow a dysfunctional relationship pattern. Fortunately with personal work, I can see these patterns better for myself.

[Bnonymous]

Hi Notwendy,

I don't think this is a conscious action on our part. I think we grow up longing for an unavailable parent to meet our emotional needs and replay this with our choice of partners on a subconscious level. For me, it is "if I am good enough, mommy and daddy will finally love me".

I don't think it's quite this with me. It's more that, on some level, I don't want to have my needs met: I would find it uncomfortable. I think my long established defence is to not need anything from anyone - it's one reason why I have been able to handle his behaviours, because I have never needed his (or anyone else's) liking, respect, support, fidelity, or even presence, so his threats to take these things away have had absolutely zero power over me because I don't need them anyway. I've always been genuinely (though probably not healthily!) indifferent to these things.

My attitude has always been "I've got me and I've got God, so I'm never alone - if I'm right with myself and God, that's all I need". I think it's a good attitude to an extent but that I can take it to an unhealthy extreme.

(I've put all this in the present tense while I think about things, though I had really thought it was in the past, that it described an old version of me and not my current self... .Now I'm not so sure.)

[Notwendy]

I get that. I am this way with gifts or people doing something for me. Growing up my mother would punish me by taking my favorite toys to hold hostage or destroy. If I left something I liked out of place, I would risk coming back to it being gone. If she was angry at my father, she would trash his home office, important papers or things he collected. We learned to keep anything we valued locked or away from her. As a child, I had no power to do this as she had access to everything.

If she knew we wanted something - then it was a guarantee we would not get it. We learned to be indifferent to things so - as long as we want nothing from her, she can not hurt us. I also knew better than to ask her to do anything for me. Even if she agreed, it was unreliable.

She did this with my father's belongings after he died. Some of them were sentimental to me. She made sure I wouldn't get them. The way I have coped is to want nothing of hers or anything from her.

Once I wanted a ring for an anniversary. My H doesn't like to be asked to do things- it triggers a "don't order me around" reaction from him. The ring was affordable so there wasn't a reason he could not buy it- it wasn't an unreasonable request. But he didn't. Months went by and no ring. I was pretty hurt because it is not easy for me to ask for something I want. It's a huge emotional risk for me. So here was something he could do for me and he didn't and it hurt.

It was a long time but eventually he did give me the ring. I asked, why, if you knew I wanted it and you could buy it- did you wait so long. He replied because he didn't want it to be an expectation and held out to make that point. That isn't a point to make with me. He knew I wanted it and purposely held out for the sake of making this point.  I rarely ask anyone for a gift because of my history with gifts and when I had the courage to ask the result was this.

He's also mentioned that I don't seem attached to what he has given me. I appreciate it but I am afraid to show attachment to things. I also would wish to have someone actually say yes to a request, but his own baggage leads this to be triggering. He thinks of a request as an order and resists it.

Why do parents take their kids to sit on Santa's lap and tell him their wish for a favorite toy? So that they can make that kid's day by getting it.  For me, it isn't about a material thing but being able to ask for something or a favor and having a spouse say " sure honey". This isn't something I would ever take advantage of. I am also too proudly independent to accept things from people easily. I married someone who is different from my mother, but yet due to his own baggage, resists the requests. Same theme, different person.

[Bnonymous]

Thanks, notwendy.

I very much understand this and I'm sorry that your husband didn't.

I think it was a huge personal triumph that you asked for the ring. It was clearly difficult to do and must have taken a great deal of courage to do it. I'm sorry you didn't get the response you deserved. I'm sorry that he doesn't see that, in the circumstances, "expectation" would be a really beautiful and meaningful thing. If he could only see it for what it was, he would feel honoured and privileged that you asked him - that was the real gift, your gift to him and to yourself. I wish he had seen it that way. 

[Notwendy]

Thanks, I wish he'd have seen it too. But we all tend to get caught up in our own triggers and that keeps us repeating some dysfunctional stuff we grew up with, and somehow being asked for something triggers him.

By working on ourselves, we get to see the patterns.

I hope that good things come to you too!

[Bnonymous]

Thanks, notwendy. I'm glad you understand that it's about his history and triggers and not about you - that makes such a difference, doesn't it?

There's a line in a song that I love "every heart is package / tangled up in knots / someone else tied" - so true!

[Radcliff]

I appreciated hearing about the similarities between your ex-husband and your boyfriend, even though on the surface they appear very different.  The similarities between your boyfriend and your father are valuable to hear about as well.  Did this come to you suddenly, or had the realization been growing slowly over a long time?

RC

[AskingWhy]

Thanks, I wish he'd have seen it too. But we all tend to get caught up in our own triggers and that keeps us repeating some dysfunctional stuff we grew up with, and somehow being asked for something triggers him.

By working on ourselves, we get to see the patterns.

I hope that good things come to you too!

I agree.  We slowly see a thread in our lives from our FOO to our current relationships.  The more awareness we develop, the more equipped we are to make sound decisions on our mental health and happiness.

[Bnonymous]

Thanks Radcliff and askingwhy,

The strange thing is that I really did think the majority of my work on all this was behind me - I do believe that we are all lifelong works-in-progress, but I thought I'd done the bulk of it. Ten+ years of intensive self-examination that turned me from an emotional wreck, with no stable sense of identity and suffering horrific toxic shame, into someone who is confident, stable, secure, serene, and filled with self-love and self-acceptance.

I noticed hints of my dad in my boyfriend all along, but I only saw how the abuse matches up when I wrote it all down. The *themes* are the same: sexualised put-downs, questioning my mental health, telling me that everyone is just using me and couldn't possibly want me for genuine reasons, this sort of thing. And every word of it absolutely suffused with contempt. It's my dad's modus operandi to an eery extent.

The difference is that, like I say, it doesn't work nowadays. I know who I am. I know my strengths and weaknesses. I like and respect myself and I also give myself unconditional self-acceptance. Every word from my boyfriend just strengthened all this, because it worked like devil's advocate, something inside rose up and cried BS every time. It couldn't shake my sense of self, couldn't trigger shame, couldn't get in... .I'd look at it and think "Wow, how far I've come! Once upon a time, comments like this would have reduced me to a sobbing wreck, now they're water off a duck's back".

It's very personal stuff and yet I don't take it personally at all - I recognise and understand it and know that it has absolutely nothing to do with me and who I am. Part of it is projection. Part of it is (as notwendy put it) "vomit", a way for him to release some of the pain and anger that's building up and giving him emotional stomach-ache. And part of it is control - part of it is about trying to lower my self-esteem to the point where I believe no one else will ever want me so that I think he's my only option and don't leave him. Again, exactly the same as it was with my dad... .

The thing is, it really doesn't work. I mean it really doesn't. Not at all. Maybe because he's prodding neither at open wounds nor at undamaged skin, but at scar tissue - and that scar tissue is so hard that he can't get through it - my mind has healed itself to the point where it's stronger than it would have been if it had never been broken. Like the quote attributed to Hemmingway (something like) "The world breaks everyone, but some of us are strong in the broken places".

I don't know what all this means, but it's really not all negative. If I was subconsciously seeking to replay childhood stuff, then it's kinda been successful, because Act 2 is very different to Act 1. Act 2 is where I recognise that it's the man's problem, not mine, and I feel a great deal of compassion combined with a rock solid foundation of self-respect and an awareness that it really isn't my responsibility to fix this guy... .So, if I am replaying stuff, then, far from being stuck on loop, I am actually righting it by reacting how I "should have" reacted first time around (though, obviously, I don't expect child-me or teenage-me to have had the skills and strength necessary to do that - adult-me does though).

[Bnonymous]

Sorry, to double-post, my mind is racing with realisations now and I want to capture them in words before they elude me... .

My boyfriend is a much better version of my dad.

My dad combined the worst of both my boyfriend and my ex-husband. We've seen how my dad resembled my boyfriend - he resembled my ex-husband in that he was reserved and repressed and an intellectual snob (though my ex-h was not as bad as my dad). My boyfriend, on the other hand, can "walk with crowds and keep [his] virtue / walk with kings, nor lose the common touch".

Like my boyfriend, my dad had moments of honesty and clarity when he saw things for what they were. But it was very different. My late nan had Alzheimer's in her last years, and most of the time she didn't know who we were or where she was etc, but she would have the occasional hour where she was like herself again and aware of everything. My dad's honest times were like that - they were rare moments of lucidity that happened maybe once or twice a year and didn't seem to be something he had any control over.

In contrast, my boyfriend's moments of honesty and clarity are frequent, predictable, and voluntary - they represent a genuine attempt to take responsibility and seek healing.

My boyfriend also has the courage and ability to be vulnerable, to recognise that part of him is a frightened child using unhealthy learned behaviours to self-soothe and bring him a (false) sense of control over his fears. My dad did not have that ability, nor that courage. My dad couldn't see beneath his narcissistic defences, my boyfriend can. My dad thought he was above everyone else - my boyfriend combines a feeling that he is not as good as everyone else with a strongly held value that all people are equal (which I respect and share).

I don't know what all this means, but, honestly, it is making me start to lean more towards staying (I say in surprise!)

Back to how Act 2 is different to Act 1. Growing up, my dad's moods dominated the house. We all walked on eggshells. We were happy when he was happy and miserable when he wasn't. He had complete emotional dominion over the household.

Not the case in Act 2. My emotions are my own and no one has any power over them but me. And it's a point of principle for me not to walk on eggshells - I am a person too and my needs matter too. I can be happy and relaxed when he is sulky, angry, or upset. I was a mirror of my dad, a moon to his sun reflecting his light. Not so with my boyfriend. I am my own person with my own feelings that don't depend on him and his.

I can see now that I could stay without harm (though, if I did, I think it would be essential to insist on breaks sometimes and more me-time, both for rest and also to give me time to carry on this work and keep shoring up those foundations). I am still undecided as to whether or not I want to.

[Bnonymous]

Sorry for talking to myself, but this is really helping me immensely.

I now think that what happened is that the threat to invade my space triggered childhood stuff (it made me feel like a kid again who was trapped and powerless with no refuge) - and that made me over-estimate the similarities in the situations and under-estimate the differences.

Food for thought.

[Notwendy]

This is a known phenomenon.

I did read once that we tend to pair up with people who will recreate similar dysfunctional patterns as our early childhood but tend to be better - so that we have the potential to  unconsciously resolve those issues with them.

My H is very different from my mother but has traits that have recreated some similar issues between us. In ways he is similar to my father- emotionally unavailable at times and other times he is. I would say both of my parents were emotionally unavailable, but my father was emotionally available at times and not at other times.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/tech-support/201405/why-your-partner-may-be-your-parent

[AskingWhy]

Notwendy, great link.

Bnonymous, sometimes it's important to be honest with ourselves.  At certain points in our lives, we have an "ah-ha" moment of awakening, and it's life changing.

I am glad you are putting the pieces together.  I am seeing how my FOO led me to my X H, and now my current H.

Be well.     

[Bnonymous]

Thanks, notwendy and askingwhy. The article was really interesting.

Well... .

After all this thinking and reflection, I realise that I am strong enough and healthy enough to continue in this relationship and that the good does outweigh the bad. Maybe that isn't what you were all expecting - I don't think it was what I was expecting - but it's where it's led me.

I've communicated it all to him in a few very productive, open, and honest phonecalls.

One thing I have realised is that not-ideal situations sometimes call for not-ideal solutions. I don't feel good about blocking him, but I don't feel good about letting him send abusive texts messages either. I have concluded that, instead of beating myself up about not being able to act in ideal ways, I will choose the less-bad out of the two bad options and forgive myself for it. This means that, if he starts abusive text messages again, I will block his number again (and forgive myself for it, accepting that I can't be perfect in a less-than-perfect situation).

I have told him this. I have told him that if we go forward then I will need to do so in the knowledge that I can protect myself from that behaviour in future. He didn't like it, but accepted it. I said that, if abusive texts start, I will block him on my mobile until we have talked on my landline and I am confident that the messages have stopped. He said he thinks it would make him feel fearful. I said I understand that and empathise and don't want to do it, but that it is important to me to know that I can and will protect myself in that way. I said it won't mean I've disappeared and it won't mean I hate him or am punishing him; it will just be my way to protect myself until the abusive messages stop and that I will unblock him again as soon as I know that has happened.

I also said that I think it will help both of us: I said that he sends these messages impulsively, then feels ashamed and small later, that this then feeds his insecurity and makes him more likely to turn and start doing it again. I said that a temporary block would break this cycle, because, not only would it protect me, but it would also prevent him from being able to do this thing that he later regrets (until he learns to prevent himself from doing it).

I reminded him that he will be in control of it: if he doesn't send abusive messages, then I won't need to put a temporary block on his texts. So whether it happens or not will, in that sense, be up to him.

I am confident that, after I set the boundary about my home/space and expressed that I would call the police if he invaded it, he won't try that again. If he does, I will follow through on the consequences.

So... .We live to fight another day (though, erm, hopefully, that's just an expression!)

Thank you all for letting me talk round things and giving me a friendly non-judgmental ear - it has helped enormously, and I really appreciate it. I will probably be mostly on the Bettering Board again now, though may pop in here from time to time to talk things through if I stay feeling confused and conflicted again. Thanks again.

[Bnonymous]

Double-posting again, sorry.

I'm thinking that it might be confusing that I'm saying that the abusive text messages don't bother me AND saying that I need to protect myself from them. To clarify: they don't bother me now, but I am trying to be forward-thinking and vigilant.

Generally speaking, the power of such abuse is in repetition, "brain-washing" style - I am trying to be aware that, just cos something doesn't bother me on the 1st hearing, or the 10th, or even the 100th, doesn't mean that it still won't bother me by the 1000th. It can be like sandpaper - so far, it's not breaking through the scar tissue, but even scar tissue has the potential to be worn down eventually. I'm thinking better-safe-than-sorry vigilance.

[Notwendy]

Glad we could help you.

Maybe there are ways to reframe the boundary on abusive text messages.

I agree with the concern about repetition. You don't want to hear this over and over.

But it is also not a behavior that reflects his best side,  and we don't want to enable these kinds of behaviors. If he did this with an employer, he would be fired. The texts may not bother you, but affect him in other ways. You should not protect him from the consequences of his behavior- that is enabling, but accepting it yourself could also be enabling. Basically sending nasty texts reflects most poorly on the sender, not the receiver.

One way to diminish a behavior is to ignore it, or not reward it. You could simply say when you get a text " I know you are better than this" "Please don't speak to me like this". "I am glad to discuss this when we are both calm and without this kind of language" - then, ignore them if they continue.

If we love someone, we want them to to be the potential they have. Nasty texts diminishes them. For their best sake- don't enable it.

[Bnonymous]

One way to diminish a behavior is to ignore it, or not reward it. You could simply say when you get a text " I know you are better than this" "Please don't speak to me like this". "I am glad to discuss this when we are both calm and without this kind of language" - then, ignore them if they continue.

Hi notwendy,

That's the status quo. That is exactly how I did handle it from when it started (well over a year ago) until now. I very much feel that it is the right way to handle it and it is what felt most natural to me. But I don't feel it helped. It didn't stop him sending them and it didn't stop him feeling ashamed of it later.

I now think he has had long enough to stop it by himself and it can't be allowed to continue, for both of our sakes. If I put a temporary block on his number when it happens (a block which I will remove the moment he calls my landline and tells me that he has stopped sending abusive messages), then it a/ breaks the cycle, and b/ protects me from the potentially damaging effects of repetition.

I don't think it's enabling at all, quite the opposite. I think that, whilst he can't send abusive texts messages, he will have no other option but to look for other ways to self-soothe and this will provide an opportunity for him to develop alternative (and hopefully healthier!) ways of dealing with his feelings.