First post not sure what to do

[cloudyday24]

Good evening,

Well here I am, not sure what do to or where to start. My story is long so I’ll try to keep it short.

My partner and I have been together for 18 years. Other than what I believed were typical marriage issues that arise (sharing housework and parenting duties), I thought I had a very strong relationship with my spouse.

Until September

She recently started working a job with very inconsistent hours, and on the job she met a fellow and starting “meeting him for lunch”. She had always given me “the gears” when I associated with other women, and these lunch meetings made me feel uncomfortable.

I decided to raise this with her, what a mistake.

I have since been subject to the silent treatment for most of the last three month, and anything that was said was to criticize and remind me of all my “faux pas’ “ over the duration of our relationship.

This appeared to come to a head recently when I had to travel out of town to see a relative who I was told was at the end of his life. My spouse was out of town as well, so I told her why I was going and that I didn’t know when I’d be coming home. 

During that time away (6 days), there was no communication with me at all. When I got back, I was blasted for the “duties” that didn’t get done while she was out of town, with no thought as to the reasons why I was out of town.

This is when I first felt that something wasn’t right.  After suffering internally for two weeks, I went to a therapist who suggested that, along with a list of other things so long now I don’t even know where to start, is indicative of BPD.

I love my spouse, and I still believe she loves me despite the grudges being held against me right now. Unless I talk to her, we’ll go days without talking. Having said that, we have a vacation coming up that I’m sure she is still planning, and she is still here with me so I don’t believe she wants to go anywhere, but I can’t go on living like this.

I usually don’t do the message board thing, but after doing some research I thought “what do I have to lose at this point”? My first question out there to the community is, is there anyone else out there experiencing this extended silent treatment? Am I going crazy? And what can I do to try and restore our relationship. I understand that criticizing a BP (which I did late August) can be horrible to the BP, but before that we had a pretty strong bond.

Help please!

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[Yellowpearl]

Hi Cloudyday24 and welcome!

I want to say I fully emphasize with your situation, and you're not alone here. I've gone through something quite similar, where I brought up some concerns and he seemed understanding at first but went silent on me without so much of an explanation, anytime I'd try to talk things through, he'd get extremely moody and started lashing out. To which I had bad reactions too which only made things worse (I should have stayed calm). I was very confused that I, too, had to go see a therapist due to suffering from anxiety from it as well. I thought I did something wrong because we had a tight bond before. I've been going crazy. So, I just want you to know you are definitely not alone and I really understand how hard this is!

The silent treatment is very hard. Raising concerns is difficult too. I think BECAUSE of your strong bond, is what makes it easy for those with BPD to detach and become self-focused. They may feel hurt that a concern was brought up because they don't like to see themselves as ever coming across as a bad person or someone who did anything wrong. It can be very deeply painful for them, especially if the concern is in relation to someone they are close with. They don't always realize holding it in, and avoiding the person and disengaging doesn't help, only makes things worse. I'm not sure if this provides any solace: This is happening for her and you are the receiving end of this because you two ARE close, meaning this factor makes it much more likely to restore.

Now for restoring it. Therapy is a great start! Especially since your therapist already sounds knowledgeable in that area, that's definitely a good thing. How about communicating with her and addressing the disengaging? Gently letting her know it is hurting you and you are wanting to resolve it together. I wanted to see if you tried anything like that before already?

I'm glad to see that you reached out as this is a supportive bunch here. I know how mind-boggling this all must be, and I can understand how stressful this has been for you. I encourage you to browse the board, read about others stories and the skills section, it's sorta what I did at first too and I felt less alone. There are many of us that have gone through the extended silence, so let us help and see what we can do here!

[Radcliff]

Let me join Yellowpearl in welcoming you.  I, too, was not a message board person at all until I landed here and found that this community could help me learn tools to better cope with a BPD relationship.

Did her behavior suddenly change to where you think she has BPD, or did the talk with the therapist help you understand that many behaviors and issues that you thought were unrelated all these years actually fall under the BPD umbrella?

RC

[cloudyday24]

I’m glad I got some responses!

Before I had to go away to see my relative, we had started taking “baby steps” towards reconciling. We were seeing a couples therapist, but during that process I had believed that I was 100% at fault here, so those meetings just perpetuated those thoughts.  He told me to start showing affection towards my spouse, but whenever I tried I was rejected as it was “too weird”

In the past two weeks, I have not addressed the disengaging as I’m sure there’s another blast waiting for me, but I did get her a gift (December 1st tradition) for which I did get a few kind words from. That said, I’ve been taking blame for so long in our relationship I am just not ready to bring up this topic only to be forced to apologize for seeing my dying relative.

To the other poster (sorry, I forgot the names), my therapist was telling me that I was making a too big deal about this UNTIL I started talking about past behaviors which led the therapist to suggest that it may be BPD. After research and listening to Stop Walking on Eggshells, I believe this may be the case, although she is high functioning and thankfully has not showed signs of reckless behavior.

When I think about our relationship together, the BPD signs sure help explain a lot (several jobs, few friends, self centered bias, the projecting towards me). It makes me sad to think that she may be struggling with this, especially given all the support that she has given me over our years together.

Please feel free to ask me any more questions to help clarify things to help with any advice or support you are willing to provide. I am primarily the sole income earner in this house (spouse works, but doesn’t make much and anything she does make she usually spends on herself), and I need to try and stay on the level to get through my days.

[Yellowpearl]

I understand the hesitation and not being ready yet to bring up the topic in not wanting to risk her getting offended and becoming reactive. Good thing is that there's no rush to address all this at once. You can take small steps in getting there and just take your time with this.

Few questions to get a better understanding. Did the couples therapy stop? I see how feeling at total fault can be so discouraging. Did you get a feel for how therapy was going for her? Does she express any specific doubts about reconciling?

[cloudyday24]

Hi Yellowpearl

The couples therapy is technically still open (I was supposed to book another appointment, which I haven’t done as of yet).

I think she felt that the couples therapy was a waste of her time, because she was doing “all the right things” in our marriage and I’m the one with issues (in this case, insecurities).

She has never expressed doubts about reconciling, except for saying that she won’t believe anything I tell her (I have had issues with procrastination on some household projects, but now of course I see this criticism in a different light). She’s told me in a heated argument that if she can’t rely on my then why keep me around? (Even though I bring home the $$$, which she recognizes, along with taking on all the rest of the household responsibility). I guess delaying that light bulb change wasn’t a good idea.

Sorry, ranting for a bit. Prior to my recent trip, she brought up our family vacation next year and that we should book it (which we did), I can’t believe that if she didn’t think reconciliation was an option that she’d be thinking about our vacation.

I believe we can reconcile, but I also don’t want it to go back to the way it was.

[Yellowpearl]

It's good to hear that she is on board with the trip and therapy is still an open book, if it becomes convenient enough for both of you, you could indeed try booking another appointment when you get the chance. Perhaps the trip can be an opportunity to rebuild the bond again as well.

Do you get the vibe she is still upset about what happened during the summer and taking it out on you? i.e. criticism, silence

Is there anything that worked in the past to help smooth things over that work for her?

[Radcliff]

It's hard to deal with insecurities when you're constantly being criticized.    Yet, you're the one who will need to lead any change.  The best way is to use the tools here, and gain confidence in your ability to improve the situation.  You won't make things perfect, but you will be able to notice situations that go better than before you were using the tools, and that's rewarding and confidence building.

I faced a lot of criticism around everything, and household projects were a common topic.  The first change is to learn to avoid the temptation to “justify, argue, defend, or explain” (JADE).  We can talk later about what to do instead.  If you look at that page on JADE, do you see yourself doing some of those things?  When we JADE, it raises the conflict because our partners feel invalidated.  It also puts us on the defensive, which they feed on, and which eats at our confidence.  Does that feel like it describes aspects of your situation?

RC

[cloudyday24]

Hi Yellowpearl,

I believe that the anger regarding the summer incident is starting to subside (even though she refuses to talk to me about her workdays anymore), I think what’s driving the majority of the anger now is the fact that I went out of town on a whim and she had to fend for herself at home.

Most of the anger is in the form of silence or one/two word answers when I ask her something.

In the past, time would generally smooth things over, doing things that we enjoy doing together such as going out to eat or playing games on the weekend. This is the first time where I outright criticized her though (back to the summer) and as a result there hasn’t been any of these activities going on. I took it to be her thinking whether or not she should stick around and my reaction was to give her space.

I’m slowly starting to talk to her, even little small talk or functional communication. This was working before my trip, so hopefully it will work again.

Radcliff: I’ll need to read the JADE link you posted below. I’m sure I’ve done these activities many times in the past, but let me take a good thoughtful read and I will respond to you.

Thank you both so much, it feels like to get these thoughts out of my head.

[Yellowpearl]

Hey cloudyday24, it seems like you are doing great here, in giving space and slowly talking to her again. As Radcliff, suggested, I also think looking through the JADE page, and working toward communication in a validating form versus invalidating. The small talk, little efforts and gentle nudges, seemed to work for you guys in the past in smoothing things over, doing what worked on top of avoiding JADEing may really help.

[once removed]

im glad you did the message board thing, and i hope youll stick around and make yourself at home as part of the family here. theres little more critical in these relationships than a strong, consistent support system.

so, the two of you have been together a long time, married for 18 years. what were the primary sources of conflict between the two of you? what, if anything, led up to what happened in september?

[cloudyday24]

Hi Once Removed! Thank you for the welcome.

We didn’t conflict a whole lot before. It was mostly me procrastinating on things, being forgetful of things (although, I was required to remember absolutely everything going on, everything was my responsibility), and my lack of housework (even though I rarely have time to rest at home as I’m doing housework).

Leading up to September, I had gone out of town with my child in May to visit family and I forgot to call the school to let her know that she would be absent. Of course Monday came and my wife got the call, she was so mad at me that I forgot she didn’t talk to me for a week after I got home. 2 months later, it came up again saying that “all she wanted was one day off from reminding people of anything or doing anything for anyone”.

I’m really struggling with this. Radcliff, I’m definitely guilty of JADEing in our past arguments, mostly because anything I was doing “wrong” was being blown out of proportion “you didn’t wash the dishes because you don’t respect me... .” sort of stuff.

Today is a hard day. I want to so bad have a conversation with my wife, but I don’t know where to start and I don’t believe I’ll get anything but one/two word answers, or I’ll just get flippant responses. We had such a strong bond and for the September event to have triggered all this is very hard for me to manage right now, I wish I had never said anything. I miss her like crazy today, yet she’s right in the room next to me right now... .

[Yellowpearl]

I understand how hard it is to avoid jadeing but also it’s good to remind yourself not to walk on eggshells just to avoid jadeing. I’d like you to look at SET communication when you can! In dealing with these conflicts. And keeping in mind that you can feel validated in saying your “truth” which is part of SET.

“I understand how not doing dishes make you feel disrespected. It’s really important to me that your are happy. I realize washing dishes hasn’t been a priority to me and I understand it makes you feel less of a priority and that is something to work on on my end” maybe a truth can be adding at the end “I like it when we’re a team and you’re on my side and I’m on yours!”

Maybe this can help give an idea to you in how to start a conversation about the topic that’s on your mind! Using SET

[Radcliff]

I'm sorry that you feel lonely when she's in the next room.  I realized that when my wife got upset at me, there was a certain natural progression that had to happen -- she kind of needed to get it out of her system -- but there were also things that I could do to accelerate the reconnection.  First, I had to remember that the reconnection would happen, and that it was only a matter of time (does your partner usually come around eventually?).  Second, I reminded myself not to withdraw too far.  Third, I figured out how to be available for reconnection -- active with a chore, so I didn't appear to need contact, but close enough that I was able to see and respond to her "bid" for attention.  I'd sometimes work on the opposite side of the house, then figure out a reason to walk near her to test the air (like carrying a laundry basket or something, perhaps mention something innocuous, or observe something neutral that was going on with her).  A "bid" is a term I learned from John Gottman, the relationship author.  A "failed bid" makes it even harder to reconnect.  Sometimes my wife's bids were very subtle -- it could even be criticism, but a little softer than the main storm, especially if the criticism revealed a need, like for me to pay attention to her.  If I read an "I need attention" bid from her, I'd set down what I was doing, plop down on the couch next to her, face her, and talk/listen.

Your mileage may vary -- what kinds of things do you see when your wife is available for reconnection?

RC

[cloudyday24]

Hi RC

She’s pretty guarded, so it’s very tough to see when she’s available for any reconnection. I’ve been trying to put myself “in her way” a bit over the last few days, but nothing. I think I would jump at the chance if I saw a “bid”. We’ve traded a handful of words this week, but mostly on functional things... .I guess it’s a small improvement from where we were a week ago.

I have a question. Are there any physical symptoms of BPD? I’m thinking headaches, skin issues (dermatitis, acne, etc).

I really appreciate this forum as a way to speak about what’s on my mind.

[Yellowpearl]

With physical symptoms for those with BPD, I've actually researched this. I would notice pwBPD getting sick a lot, stomach aches and feeling extremely tired. I read about it and there was an article talking about how those with BPD likely endured extreme stress during terrible childhoods, constantly being in fight or flight mode and their responses to situations are often highly emotional, so their energy from all of the highs and lows can lead to them getting sick.

You mentioned skin issues, which can be stress-related, and can be a result of a disordered person's stress.

[Radcliff]

Physical symptoms are not a part of the official criteria for diagnosis, but Yellowpearl's thoughts certainly make sense to me.  

I hear you with respect to you being willing to jump on a bid.  The loneliness you are describing is familiar to me.  In my situation, peaceful interactions over functional things were often a relief, and an improvement from a rage or silent treatment.  I tried to use my voice and body language to show warmth and kindness in these short functional interactions.  Sometimes I think it may have helped to thaw the ice.

Are you still planning to pursue couples therapy?  You are coping with a lot -- have you thought about therapy for yourself?

RC

[once removed]

what are the things that brought you together, that you liked to do together?

more simply... .what are things she likes to talk about?

[cloudyday24]

RC: I am going to therapy with a focus on myself given everything I have going on (which is what clued me in to BPD). We are technically still in couple’s therapy, but I haven’t booked our next appointment yet. I needed to focus on me first, and at couples therapy even the therapist was convinced that this was all my doing.

Once Removed: we would talk about anything and everything really. We have a trip booked for next year so we would usually start talking about that. We would go out on the weekends to play games, and spend weeknights watching Netflix. The last time I mentioned that she “didn’t feel like it”, only to be watching Netflix on her own in our bedroom.

I’m thinking about writing a very loving letter to her in a way to restart the communication between us. Any thoughts on this?

[Yellowpearl]

What were you thinking of saying in the letter?

[cloudyday24]

Hi Yellowpearl

Something along the lines that I miss her and I want to start working towards reconciliation of this.  It would be a kind and loving note.

I’m so angry. Over the last four weeks I feel like this marriage that we have / had means nothing to her, and I can’t figure out why it is always on me to step up to try and fix? Even our couples therapist said this to me.

I need to start communicating with her again, but I’m too angry / emotional to start this as I’m afraid I’ll be the one to explode / rage given all the pent up feelings that I have.

I have my next appointment with my counselor early next week, and I’ve sort of been waiting for this appointment before I take any action here.  My spouse is still here, eating the food I prepare, and we are still doing each other’s laundry and picking up each other’s groceries, so I have to believe there are still threads there to turn this thing around. I just need to figure out how to deal with my anger towards this situation.

Sorry for the long winded message.

[Yellowpearl]

Waiting until your therapy appointment to get some feedback on how to approach all of this sounds like a good idea. As a professional, she may have some sound advice.

The letter could be helpful in smoothing things out a little more, you could really take some time and think about what you can say. Even if you don't end up giving it to her, it could help you destress and defuse some of that anger you are feeling. Just helps us to remind ourselves about the positive things that we love about our persons.

The fear of exploding and getting too angry if you start a conversation is understandable. What may be helpful is anytime you get a reactive response from her and worry you're going too say too much, just say "okay."  Once she sees you're not reacting, that may open things up to say a little more. Then once you say a little more, and things get too much at any point just say "okay" "I understand" Even ending the conversation before it escalates, "I'm glad we got to talk a little about this, can we pick this up and discuss this further later?" That way you got a little in but don't rush into talking about everything at once.

But I can understand not knowing even where to start. It may help to think of one or two things that are really bothering you. Once a conversation is going, make sure you use "I" statements, avoid saying the word "you" at all costs to avoid making her feel blamed.

I'd also try to really hone these SET techniques:
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=143695.0

[once removed]

it might be a good idea to post what you want to say in the letter here, and get some feedback.

what do you think?

[cloudyday24]

Hi Everyone,

It’s been a while since I’ve given an update.

Things at home have stabilized a bit. There is still a huge lack of communication going on, but she is spending more time in the common areas of the house than she was when I first posted on here.

Christmas went fairly well too (all things considered). While she chose not to celebrate the holiday, she did take our daughter out so that she could get her dad a couple of gifts.

The most positive thing that happened, albeit small, was yesterday when we had a bit of a mess to clean up in the house. Normally I would be left to do this myself but she stopped to give me a hand. I think this was definitely a “bid” which I responded to.

We still have a long way to go, but yesterday was the first time in months where I think there has been some positive movement.  I have written several drafts of a letter, but for now it is parked as I want to see where this goes.

Thank you to all of you for your advice and support. I’ll meep popping in here regularly to give updates, and provide support to others when I can.

[Bnonymous]

Hi cloudyday24,

That's great to hear that things have been going better. Thanks for updating us! 

[cloudyday24]

Hi Everyone,

So something weird happened today in my ongoing saga and I’m hoping someone can give me an insight as to what is going on (or perhaps I’m reading too much into things).

So this week we’ve actually been sharing a few words between us, nothing too crazy but it’s there. It feels like she is keeping me at a “safe” distance but keeps giving me “bids”

Today though, I was at work and I got a call from my wife’s cell phone. It was my daughter and she asked if they could stop by my office because they were in the area. This used to be normal course, but of course once this all started these things stopped.

Anyways, I said of course come visit. Both my wife and daughter came by and sat in my office for about a 10 minute visit. My wife didn’t say much, but she was there and answered whatever questions I asked her.

So later this evening once we got home, I made a point to thank her for stopping by, and the response I got was “your daughter asked... .”, making it appear that she stopped by for my daughter’s sake.

Now, I’m sure my wife wouldn’t have come in if she was by herself, but I also believe that she could have found many reasons not to come by at all. I think she’s trying to reach out to me, or “bid” to see how I would react.

Anyways, I would love to hear your thoughts on this. I have a feeling that she wants to try and work things out, but for now wants me at that “safe distance”.

Thanks!

[cloudyday24]

Big update,

So, she tells me late today that she was considering moving out because she’s not happy in the house. Afterwards, we ended up having probably the best conversation that we’ve had in months.

She still harbors very strong feelings about the original incident in August, but she admitted that there’s certainly more going on and that she can’t seem to get over it.

I stayed quite controlled and only did a little JADE’ing, which i think is why our chat was so constructive. I thanked her for coming to talk and told her that I love her.

We agreed to try counseling again, and I think this time it will be different because there is a lot more stuff on the table. We’ll see what happens.

I’d love to get your thoughts on all this. She told me that she’s “serious” about the moving out comment, and while I believe her to a degree i think it’s more of a cry for help at this point.

[Radcliff]

It sounds that while things steel feel shaky, there is signs of progress, which it good to hear.  I'm sure your adjustments and the things you are learning are having an impact.  Congrats on dialing back the JADEing.
 Keep at it!  Regarding the office visit, I experienced similar things where my pwBPD would do something nice, but then downplay it.  I think giving up control is still scary, and if they admit to being nice then they'll give up their power to withdraw.  So I found ways to thank them without necessarily waving it in their face and forcing them to admit to being nice.  In response to her denial, you could have said something like, "Thank you for driving her, then, it was a treat."

That's great news on the counseling.  Keep us posted on how it goes.  Would this be a new counselor or an old one?

RC

[cloudyday24]

Thanks RC

What I learned on here, and from Stop Walking on Eggshells have been extremely helpful (thank you to the community here!) ... .especially the JADEing, and I would encourage anyone reading this to look it up and practice this with a trusted friend.

I’d say it’s still shakey for sure, but yesterday we agreed to end the silent treatment, and today we talked to each other more than in the last 4 months combined.  I’m not sure how serious she is about the move out, but at least she has acknowledged that she is having issues letting go of the anger.

Regarding the counselor, we are going to a new one. I’ve relied on the EAP I have access to through my employment, but that is generally shorter-term. We agreed to try a new independent one to see where this goes.

I’ll continue to keep you all posted, and thank you for all the advice and support.

[Radcliff]

Those communication improvements are encouraging!  Great work!  

These things often are two steps forward and one step back.  Don't be discouraged if you have setbacks.  Keep at it.  One of the best tools to help keep things going smoothly is validation.  Have you read this page on how to validate and avoid being invalidating?

RC