Please help me in the correct direction

[Granite Chief]

As soon I asked her to marry  me the splitting started. I did not see any signs but who knows.

How do I start to understand?

Do I run? Do I work through this? This seems crazy.

Thank you! I actually posted a few months ago but I was too over whelmed.

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[merkaba1]

Hello Granite Chief,

I am sorry you are experiencing splitting.  Can you share more details? What led up to it?  How long were you two seeing one another prior to proposing?  Did she say yes?

[Granite Chief]

We were seeing each other for around a year. As soon as she said yes you could see her happiness go extremely high. This is normal I think... .She then started to become extremely controlling. Something in her wants to create her picture of a perfect life. There is unreasonable abandonment and jealousy issues. I can not reason with her.

We started to go to a premarital counselor and she diagnosed my Fiance with BPD. She didn't say it directly because she was in the room but she had a chance to tell me to read "Stop walking on eggshells".

From my understanding something about her difficult past could come out once her fight or flight went down. She then began to feel. This is when it got really really bad. Once a week I would see a complete split. I still see it but it doesn't seem to last days only a day at the most.

[merkaba1]

I went and am going through something similar.

How long ago did you propose?

How did you feel when reading the book? I had to be careful, my pwBPD found out I rented it and of course that was no good.

Is she open to the diagnosis?

What kinds of behaviors happen during splitting?

[Harri]

Hi and welcome back.  I am glad you are feeling better enough to post more this time but so sorry for what bring you here.  It is difficult when an event like being ask to marry you sets someone we love off into dysregulation. 

pwBPD (people with BPD)_ have a problem with emotional regulation.  Sometimes when relationships change and become more intimate the vulnerability can be quite frightening and pwBPD can be overcome by emotions.  Being vulnerable is difficult for anyone, but worse I think for pwBPD.  Rather than stick with the emotions, they will try to push them away in various ways in an effort to make them go away.  This can lead to all sorts of impulsive or push/pull behaviors.

As you read and post more, you will begin to see patterns in her and in your own behaviors and perhaps you can work towards changing things up at your end.  That can make a big difference in how you deal and cope with things and it can sometimes help her too.

[Granite Chief]

We have been engaged for 8 months.

When I read the book I felt like I got some of my sanity back. It isn't entirely me... .She has an illness and I am the one trying to manage it. She did find it and was like who gave this to me? I told her a friend because I told the counselor that I would keep this a secrete. She said who are you my counselor? I am like no I am not but this book is for me. When she found out her own counselor gave me the book she accepted it. She then talked with her counselor alone.

She is very open and the splitting is wayyyyyy better. She is going to counseling, alanon, and become more active in the community.

When she first split she would hit occasionally and this was scary. Most of the time she runs and the first time this happened I let her go. Then she got mad at me for letting her go so she wants me to prevent her from going. This is a dangerous cycle. This used to happen weekly. Now it is much more mild but still disturbing and can't be understood with reason.

[merkaba1]

That is great to hear the progress you two have been making!

What kinds of things did you do when the splitting was bad in helping it become better? 

To be honest, when I read its hard to understand with reason, I not only catch my self saying the exact same thing in this moment right now with my pwBPD, but also, I think this is part of the problem.  We quite literally are not capable of understanding with reason.  There is no reason behind it, at least not logical to non-pwBPD.  I mean yes these things are real to them, there is no denying them of that.  But to one that is in a rational state and can think with logic and reason, they would not behave in that way right?  So even though we (I mean myself at times) can be 'messed up' we still have logical thinking.  That is not to say your pwBPD is irrational all of the time or anything by that means.  I do think when in active acting out of the BPD behaviors, they are not in the right mindset. 

It does sound good that she is open and going to therapy which I'm sure is helping a lot.  Can you share anything from either of your perspectives on what has been working and what has not been working?

[Bnonymous]

Hi Granite Chief,

Welcome to the boards! 

You're getting some excellent input from Harri and Merkaba1 here.

I think Harri is spot on that, often, the more intimate the relationship becomes, the more vulnerable the pwBPD feels. I think this is probably why the issues came to the surface after you became engaged.

It's great to hear that you've been making progress.

Most of the time she runs and the first time this happened I let her go. Then she got mad at me for letting her go so she wants me to prevent her from going. This is a dangerous cycle. This used to happen weekly. Now it is much more mild but still disturbing and can't be understood with reason.

When you say she runs and you let her go, what do you mean? Do you mean she physically leaves or emotionally withdraws, or do you mean that she says she's ending the relationship at these times? Can you tell us more about these cycles?

[Granite Chief]

When you say she runs and you let her go, what do you mean? Do you mean she physically leaves or emotionally withdraws, or do you mean that she says she's ending the relationship at these times? Can you tell us more about these cycles?

Like she will drive somewhere or get a hotel with her son. This is very emotional for him. You can tell she is emotionally someone else too.

I leave about 25 percent of the time and she always says the same thing when I get back. She says she felt alone and I should not leave her like that. Mind you this is after she spews the worst venom out of her mouth that she can think of. I think that I must leave or my safety is in jeopardy.

I believe the cycles have to do with how tired she is also. You can see she is trying to isolate me from my friends and family and she currently cut off most of hers.

She actually split last night and the difference is she has not thrown the ring at me and she didn't leave. The fights seem to always be that she does not feel love. We are not a team. I am not suppose to ask other people for advise only her. This last part is difficult because I am always afraid of her flipping out.

Thank you all for listening. I am confused.

[Bnonymous]

Hi Granite Chief,

Thanks for telling us more.

I leave about 25 percent of the time and she always says the same thing when I get back. She says she felt alone and I should not leave her like that. Mind you this is after she spews the worst venom out of her mouth that she can think of. I think that I must leave or my safety is in jeopardy.

Sometimes we do need to take time-outs for the sake of safety or to prevent escalation. It's recommended as a last-resort though - as you've noticed, it can trigger abandonment fears.

Do you say anything before leaving? For instance, it can help to say when you'll be back and communicate that you'll be willing to talk later. Use I-statements or we-statements, not you-statements, e.g. "I'll be able to listen better if I take some time to calm myself down" or "We'll talk later when we're both calmer and less tired".

She actually split last night and the difference is she has not thrown the ring at me and she didn't leave.

That's great that she broke the habit last night. Can you think of anything different in what happened yesterday or how you dealt with it compared to other times? There might have been something you said or did that helped her feel secure enough to stay and not chuck the ring. If you can think through all the differences between this time and others, you might be able to ward off her running and ring-chucking on other occasions too.

Or do you think the difference was just about her tiredness levels? like you say here:

I believe the cycles have to do with how tired she is also.

Is this something she's aware of herself? If so, has she any plans for how to address it?

[Granite Chief]

We made house rules. We must say where we are going and check in every two hours. She knows there is a problem with her anger but she does not know what to do with it.

Do people with BPD have to go to counseling for the rest of their lives?

I am getting better because I do not take it so personal. How I react is definitely a problem and something I am working on. Why do people split? I feel like she could kill me when it happens. Like she is possessed.

[Bnonymous]

Why do people split? I feel like she could kill me when it happens. Like she is possessed.

Hi Granite Chief,

That's a good question with a complicated answer. There's a helpful workshop thread on this here:

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=62033.0

[Granite Chief]

Oh Wow! This is going to be an interesting story. My friends tell me that every day seems like a netflix show. Thank you for sharing the definition to me.

Everything is either good or bad. This is why when I use my logical mind I can not move her somewhere into the middle.

[Bnonymous]

Hi Granite Chief,

It's quite a natural tendency to want to employ logic and reason to move someone out of extreme thinking. Unfortunately, it tends to make things worse in practice. When people are emotionally dysregulated, logic often fans the flames as it can be experienced as quite invalidating.

https://bpdfamily.com/content/communication-skills-dont-be-invalidating

[Granite Chief]

Thank you for all the comments they really helped. I have only really messed up once since I posted this.

I have learned to not engage with her delusions. I think it is something I just have to accept though. Someone is teaching me patients