After empathetic listening, then what?

[MrJake]

I empathetically listened to my BP wife tonight say all kinds of awful, damning, and untrue things about me. I rephrased, asked questions, did.not defend, and affirmed her pain. She seemed to respond - we even embraced a few times - but it wasn’t enough. She wanted me to say “I’m sorry” and confess to being a liar and the other awful things she accused me of being. I can’t do that without losing my integrity. So now what? How do we move forward?

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PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[once removed]

She wanted me to say “I’m sorry” and confess to being a liar and the other awful things she accused me of being. I can’t do that without losing my integrity.

is this a condition she places?

as in say, she wants you to literally confess youre "a liar", and admit what things?

and why/what does she say she needs this in order to do?

[Luan]

You don't mention whether your wife knows about her condition, is seeking therapy, or indeed has been diagnosed. I can see how that places you in a difficult position, but from her (delusional) point of view, it also places her in a difficult spot. You have to accept that you cannot change her delusion by contradicting it. Watching this video gave me a whole new insight into speaking with, and validating someone with a mental health condition

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=2734&v=bnbOizw_zS0

If you are time poor, watching from the 47:30 mark onwards. The important point is, if you wish to be of support to a loved one, it will not be about being right, but about validating their thoughts. It might seem impossible, but we can accept what they are saying without agreeing, find an aspect of that which we can begin to build trust, and acknowledge their truth.

My question to you would be, what is more important, being right or being a trust builder? Does the positive responses you gained give you some hope?

[Luan]

Having just read your other posts, I understand your SO is undiagnosed @Mr Jake. I sympathise with your frustration.

Have you asked her what solutions she can offer? My uBPD offered a couple of reasons that made no sense to me at her time of ending our relationship, but I have since reflected on their meaning. I think they stemmed from abandonment fears, essentially me not being 'present' enough for her liking.

[Skip]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=2734&v=bnbOizw_zS0

That is very good information, Luan. This might be a cleaner version of that Amador talk (for future reference).
https://bpdfamily.com/content/how-to-get-borderline-into-therapy

I empathetically listened to my BP wife tonight say all kinds of awful, damning, and untrue things about me. I rephrased, asked questions, did.not defend, and affirmed her pain. She seemed to respond - we even embraced a few times - but it wasn’t enough. She wanted me to say “I’m sorry” and confess to being a liar and the other awful things she accused me of being. I can’t do that without losing my integrity. So now what? How do we move forward?

Normally it is best to feedback to her a list of accusations and say you want to think seriously think about what she is saying and get back.

You: So, to be sure I understand... . you are upset with me because I am a liar and scoundrel.

   You: So, to be sure I understand... . you are upset with me because I didn't take you to see Wayne Newton in Vegas.

Make the summary in clinical terms - let her amend it  - but either get rid of  the judgement words if you can without a making matters worse or attach them. And promise to come back to this discussion in a day or so.

This disarms her (you are on the same side of the issue - wanting to resolve it, not deny it). This allows time for extinction bust. It give you time to whittle it down - you can discuss the topic in snippets, not have a formal meeting on all of it.

What did she claim? Let's work through it. 

[MrJake]

Thank you, Luan and Skip. Her accusations are often very broadly damning and difficult to pin down. But, to take one example, back in May after she had said she hated me and was going to divorce me and violently kicked me out of our room, I reached out privately to our pastor who has known me since I was young for help and counsel and prayer. When she later found out that I had talked to him, she accused me of her.

[MrJake]

Sorry - had to end my last message abruptly. She accused me of betraying her, which has led to her classifying me as a liar when I am being negatively “split.” Last night she told me she loved me and we dreamed about the future together; today she called me a liar again, so the splitting happens fast.

[Skip]

What did you lie about?

[MrJake]

I didn’t lie. I talked to our pastor without telling her.

[Skip]

Normally it is best to feedback to her a list of accusations and say you want to think seriously think about what she is saying and get back.

You: So, to be sure I understand... . you are upset with me because I am a liar and scoundrel.

   You: So, to be sure I understand... . you are upset with me because I didn't take you to see Wayne Newton in Vegas.

Make the summary in clinical terms - let her amend it  - but either get rid of  the judgement words if you can without a making matters worse or attach them. And promise to come back to this discussion in a day or so.

This disarms her (you are on the same side of the issue - wanting to resolve it, not deny it). This allows time for extinction bust. It give you time to whittle it down - you can discuss the topic in snippets, not have a formal meeting on all of it.

What did she claim? Let's work through it. 

I'm following up on my earlier post about how to work this.

That's better. See.  You move from liar to talking to pastor (about her) without telling her and she is embarrassed, shamed, or ______ .

Do you see the point in this?

[MrJake]

Thanks, Skip.